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Speaker 1: Hi, Welcome to Sign Stuff, a production of iHeartRadio. My

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Speaker 1: name is Jorge cham and you are getting sleepier and sleepier.

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Speaker 1: You are going to listen to this episode all the

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Speaker 1: way to the end because we are answering the question

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Speaker 1: is hypnotism real? Does it really work like we see

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Speaker 1: in the movies with a swinging pocket watch? And can

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Speaker 1: you use it to get someone to do things without

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Speaker 1: their knowledge. We're going to talk to two hypnotism experts

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Speaker 1: who are going to step us through how it works

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Speaker 1: and what the most common misconceptions about it are. And

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Speaker 1: then in the end, you're both going to hypnotize me.

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Speaker 1: So focus on my voice, let yourself go and join

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Speaker 1: me as we answer the question is hypnotism real?

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Speaker 2: Hey?

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Speaker 1: Everyone, Okay, today's episode has a gimmick, and that is

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Speaker 1: that I ask two hypnotism experts to hypnotize me. We're

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Speaker 1: going to see which one was able to do it. Now.

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Speaker 1: The word hypnosis comes from Hypnos, the Greek god of sleep,

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Speaker 1: who in mythology is also the twin brother of death

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Speaker 1: and the father of dreams. But what most people think

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Speaker 1: when they hear the word hypnosis came from a German

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Speaker 1: doctor named Franz Mesmer in the late seventeen hundreds. Mesmer

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Speaker 1: was a bit of a cult leader who claimed he

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Speaker 1: could control a cosmic energy he called animal magnetism using

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Speaker 1: simple magnets. He would enthrall audiences with demonstrations of curing

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Speaker 1: people from things like headaches, stomach problems, and even paralysis

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Speaker 1: and seizures. If you've heard the word mesmerizing, Franz Mesmer

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Speaker 1: is where it comes from. He would hold sessions where

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Speaker 1: people would sit in a circle and hold bars of

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Speaker 1: iron connected to a big tup of water that Mesmer

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Speaker 1: claimed had this magnetic energy. Mesmer would then walk around

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Speaker 1: talking to the participate, and after about an hour or so,

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Speaker 1: some patients would feint, others would fall into a trance,

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Speaker 1: and others would start to convolt or shake. Afterwards, the

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Speaker 1: patients would claim to be cured of their ailments. Mesmer

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Speaker 1: became so famous the King of France, Louis the sixteenth,

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Speaker 1: hired an elite team of investigators to find out if

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Speaker 1: Mesmer was real or a fraud. The people he assembled

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Speaker 1: were like the avengers of signs at the time. They

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Speaker 1: included Antoine de la Boissier, the father of modern chemistry,

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Speaker 1: Joseph Ignaz Guillotine, who invented the guillotine, and it was

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Speaker 1: led by none other than Ben Franklin, one of the

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Speaker 1: founding fathers of the United States, who at the time

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Speaker 1: was the US ambassador to France. The group was called

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Speaker 1: and part of my French here Les Commissier Charge parla

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Speaker 1: Roux de le xamin to Magnetism ANEMA, or the Royal

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Speaker 1: Commission on Animal Magnetism, and they did what is considered

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Speaker 1: to be the first ever controlled clinical trial. They designed

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Speaker 1: this series of experiments where they would put test subjects

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Speaker 1: alone in a room or behind the curtain, and then

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Speaker 1: they would tell the patient they were being magnetized when

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Speaker 1: really they were not, or they would have one of

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Speaker 1: Mesmer's men try to magnetize the patient without telling the patient.

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Speaker 1: This is what's now known as a blind study. As

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Speaker 1: you might expect, Ben Franklin and the team of scientists

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Speaker 1: found that there is no such thing as animal magnetism

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Speaker 1: and that the effects people reported were mostly due to

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Speaker 1: their imagination, the power of suggestion, and peer pressure. Okay,

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Speaker 1: the first person I brought in to hypnotize me is

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Speaker 1: doctor anuche Zaheti. Doctor Zaheedi is a researcher in the

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Speaker 1: Department of Psychology at the University of Munster in Germany,

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Speaker 1: and he has written several papers on the science of hypnosis.

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Speaker 1: Before we got started, though, I was curious to know

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Speaker 1: how he got interested in this subject. Here's what he said,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much for inviting me. I'm very happy

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Speaker 2: to be here.

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Speaker 1: You haven't hypnotized me. Now, I just want to make sure.

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Speaker 2: Not yet, not yet. I'm trying, but not yet.

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Speaker 1: First of all, what got you interested in the topic

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Speaker 1: of hypnosis?

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Speaker 2: So I was trying to find the topic from my

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Speaker 2: massive thesis. At the time. I was very skeptical about hypnosis. So,

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Speaker 2: oh yeah, I wanted to prove that hypnosis is not

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Speaker 2: going to work. And then I participated in some course

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Speaker 2: program introducing me to hypnosis, and then went and saw that,

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Speaker 2: oh it might be effective. And by the end of it,

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Speaker 2: I was very much actually interested in surprised by things

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Speaker 2: that I just saw by the power of mind. Led

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Speaker 2: just say that I was hooked.

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Speaker 1: So you were a skeptic and then suddenly you believed

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Speaker 1: in it. It sounds a little suspicious, sounds like maybe

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Speaker 1: they hypnotized you.

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Speaker 2: They definitely ritized. In that program, I started to think

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Speaker 2: about hypnosis based on stuff that I saw in public

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Speaker 2: media right through TV series. You will just get hypnotized.

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Speaker 2: You start to disclose all the sensitive information you had

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Speaker 2: ever in your life, and then by the end of it,

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Speaker 2: it's going to be very dangerous for you. But as

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Speaker 2: we went through the whole course, it became more clear

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Speaker 2: that I just got the whole concept wrong.

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Speaker 1: These days, according to doctors a heady, hypnotism is mostly

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Speaker 1: seen as a form of therapy. Let's say you want

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Speaker 1: to feel more confident in your life, or you want

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Speaker 1: to get rid of some phobia or fear that you have,

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Speaker 1: or let's say you want to lose weight or break

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Speaker 1: a habit like smoking, then hypnosis might be for you.

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Speaker 1: There are studies that have found that hypnotherapy can work

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Speaker 1: as a way to help you change your behavior. Here's

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Speaker 1: how doctors a heady defines hypnosis.

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Speaker 2: At the moment hypnosis, if you want to defind, it's

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Speaker 2: a procedure that two people are some experimenter, the hypnotice,

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Speaker 2: the clinician, whatever you want to call. The person will

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Speaker 2: give another person the participants, some suggestions and participants will

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Speaker 2: just listen to these suggestions. Imagine with the hypnotics and

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Speaker 2: think about these suggestions, and through this process, the participant

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Speaker 2: is going to have a perception that is semi different

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Speaker 2: from your normal perception. And this altered perception, altered cognition,

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Speaker 2: would be very interesting for everyone. So it's an opportunity

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Speaker 2: to change your frameworks in order to see things differently.

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Speaker 1: We'll get to how hypnosis works a little later. But

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Speaker 1: another interesting application of hypnosis is in pain management. If

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Speaker 1: you have chronic pain, or if you're going to go

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Speaker 1: through a painful medical procedure, it might help to get hypnotized.

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Speaker 1: And that's what God. The second expert I brought in

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Speaker 1: to hypnotize me, doctor Dali Jaja, interested in hypnosis. Well,

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Speaker 1: thank you doctor Jajah for joining us here today. Am

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Speaker 1: I hypnotized right now? Have you already hypnotized me?

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Speaker 3: Everyone asked this question. Now you need to want to

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Speaker 3: be hypnotized. What did to work?

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Speaker 1: Can you tell us who you are and what you do?

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Speaker 2: So?

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Speaker 3: I'm a pharmacy, hypnotherapist and researcher. I have an infel

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Speaker 3: in the Faculty of Medicine from the University of Queensland

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Speaker 3: and especially certificate in clinical research from the University of Madman.

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Speaker 3: I have around seven publications about theories of hypnosis and misconceptions.

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Speaker 3: I mainly focused on medical hypnosis for pain. For example,

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Speaker 3: hypnosis has a potential benefits for children's procedureal pain and distress.

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Speaker 3: Also the traumas that children go through can be prevented.

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Speaker 1: So what's the situation. There's a patient like a child,

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Speaker 1: and they were going through some procedure and you would

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Speaker 1: be there applying hypnosis to them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So for example, with someone having you to extraction,

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Speaker 3: I did hypnosis. So the session started before the procedure,

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Speaker 3: and when the procedure was being performed, the patient was

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Speaker 3: already in a hypnotics state, in any laxed state, imagining

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Speaker 3: pleasant scenes. And then when the proceed was over, the

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Speaker 3: patient didn't have to go through the trauma the fear

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Speaker 3: of being ather dentist. No anesthesia was used.

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Speaker 1: Wow, So hypnotism can be used to basically block out pain.

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Speaker 1: I asked doctor Jajah, what are some of the other

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Speaker 1: misconceptions people have about hypnotism? Now, you said there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of definitions out there and a lot of

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Speaker 1: misconceptions about hypnosis. What are some of the common misconceptions.

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Speaker 3: A common methace hyprocess is a sleep like state, and

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Speaker 3: movies you see people undergoing hypnosis as if they're sleeping

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Speaker 3: or an a state of somnambilism or reduced awareness, while

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Speaker 3: in fact hypnosis is distinct from sleep, as hypnotized individuals

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Speaker 3: remain aware of their surroundings and they can even leave

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Speaker 3: hypnosis at any time. And some misconceptions that hypnosis involves

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Speaker 3: robot like automatic responding without being able to resist suggestions,

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Speaker 3: while in truth, although it does involve a sense of

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Speaker 3: involuntariness and a reduced sense of agency, individuals do not

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Speaker 3: lose control under hypnosis, and they can resist suggestions that

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Speaker 3: do not align with their inner inclination. Some people say

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Speaker 3: that in hypnosis you cannot remember what occurs. Spontaneous amnisia

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Speaker 3: is exceptionally rare, and hypnotized individuals can remember everything that

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Speaker 3: occurs during this session. And also, hypnosis sometimes is confused

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Speaker 3: with other techniques like meditation or mindfulness, but in fact

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Speaker 3: hypnosis is distinct from these. If you're seeing something under hypnosis,

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Speaker 3: your brain acts differently than if you're just imagining something.

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Speaker 3: The visual areas would be activated as if you're really

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Speaker 3: seeing the objects.

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Speaker 1: So a definition of hypnosis is still something even experts

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Speaker 1: disagree on. The American Psychological Association, the main body of

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Speaker 1: psychologists in the United States, has redefine what hypnosis is

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Speaker 1: at least three times in the last few decades. They

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Speaker 1: can't seem to agree on what it is. But from

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Speaker 1: our experts, this is the general picture. Hypnosis is a

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Speaker 1: procedure where you sit down with a hypnotist and the

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Speaker 1: hypnotism helps you enter a state of mind in which

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Speaker 1: you might dissociate or tune out the rest of the

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Speaker 1: world and be completely immersed, be more open to suggestions,

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Speaker 1: and you might feel a loss of agency or control

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Speaker 1: over your actions. Right when we come back, our two

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Speaker 1: experts are you going to tell us how to get

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Speaker 1: someone hypnotized, and then in the end we're going to

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Speaker 1: see which one was able to hypnotize me. So don't

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Speaker 1: fall into a trance. Stay with us. We'll be right

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Speaker 1: back with more science stuff. Hey, welcome back. Okay, we

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Speaker 1: talked a little about what hypnosis is, and now we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about how to hypnotiz someone. We're going

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Speaker 1: to do it by playing your clips from the two

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Speaker 1: sessions where the experts try to hypnotize me. According to them,

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Speaker 1: hypnosis is a four step process. Here's how Doctors AHEADI

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Speaker 1: describes the first step. Okay, so you described it as

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Speaker 1: a process. What is that process.

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Speaker 2: First, you are going to have a long discussion with

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Speaker 2: your clinician about the hypnosis itself creating some positive expectations

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Speaker 2: in you and also with U seeing your negative expectations,

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Speaker 2: you expect that some fun stuff are going to happen.

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Speaker 2: So you expect that your hands or arms can be moved,

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Speaker 2: your sense of agency over your behavior might be changed

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Speaker 2: to your movements, and these things can happen to everyone,

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Speaker 2: and that's okay.

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Speaker 1: So the first step in hypnotizing someone is a conversation

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Speaker 1: that happens before the actual hypnosis, and this is where

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Speaker 1: the hypnotism essentially primes you for what's about to happen.

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Speaker 1: They make sure that you want this to work, that

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Speaker 1: you have positive expectations, and they tell you that you

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Speaker 1: might have some strange feet during the session, like you

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Speaker 1: might feel like you're not in control of your movements

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Speaker 1: and that this is normal. But most important, the pre

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Speaker 1: hypnosis talk is to get you to trust the hypnotist.

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Speaker 2: So the trust between two of us are going to

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Speaker 2: be very important. So report is very important at any

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Speaker 2: point in hypnosis, and your brain tells you that you

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Speaker 2: should not trust me, the process going to stop.

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Speaker 1: It sort of sounds like you're trying to pre hypnotize

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Speaker 1: the person to lean into the process, not to freak out,

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Speaker 1: because if I have my guard up, if I'm skeptical,

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Speaker 1: if I'm afraid of what's going to happen, then it

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Speaker 1: definitely won't happen exactly. The second step in hypnotizing someone

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Speaker 1: is to officially start the hypnosis, and this is where

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Speaker 1: that famous swinging pocket watch comes in.

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Speaker 2: Then you start the next step, which is ghypnotic induction.

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Speaker 2: Usually it's a ritual. You're trying through this ritual to

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Speaker 2: start the initiation of the process.

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Speaker 1: Some sort of signals that says, all right, the process

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Speaker 1: has now officially begun exactly.

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Speaker 2: For instance, they will ask you to close your eyes,

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Speaker 2: and then you will think about your muscles and then

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Speaker 2: you'll start to relax them one by one. Another one

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Speaker 2: is eye fixation, so you would start to look at

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Speaker 2: some specific place and then you try to keep your

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Speaker 2: eyes open, and then at some point you have the

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Speaker 2: tendency to close your eyes and you're going to get

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Speaker 2: tired and the process starts.

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Speaker 1: That's sort of like the one you see on TV

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Speaker 1: or in movies or in old movies where they would

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Speaker 1: swing a watch, oh yeah something and say you're getting sleepy.

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Speaker 1: That This is kind of the where that comes from.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, the clock actually is a thing still hunting

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Speaker 2: me every time. I'm just introducing how someone's governer the clock.

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Speaker 2: Do you have a clock or not? Actually gets a

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Speaker 2: very ineffective way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so hypnotherapists don't actually use the swing in pocket watch,

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Speaker 1: but they do use other techniques to get you to

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Speaker 1: relax so that your brain goes into a relaxed state,

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Speaker 1: and this is where the hypnosis actually start. I'm now

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Speaker 1: going to play for you the two sessions where our

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Speaker 1: experts try to hypnotize me, and so your license hypnotherapist.

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Speaker 2: I am actually heart to part in the therapist. I

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Speaker 2: don't actually practice as a clinician. I'm very much boring scientists.

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Speaker 2: But it is not going to be that much difficult.

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Speaker 2: It's a very actually simple thing. So yeah, definitely it's

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Speaker 2: possible to hypnotize anyone as long as they are trusting

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Speaker 2: you and they are okay with a situation. Okay, that's right, perfect,

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Speaker 2: So let's just do something together. Let's just start with it.

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Speaker 2: Close your eyes, and then we will try to first

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Speaker 2: relax your body together. Please see it comfortably on your chair.

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Speaker 2: Try to imagine your body as it is, and then

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Speaker 2: think about your body as a butt of water. Now

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Speaker 2: it's empty, there is no water in it, and you

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Speaker 2: can see through your body, so a transparent container. Now

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Speaker 2: that we do want to now feel with some war

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Speaker 2: warm water. It's warm, pleasant water, not too warm to

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Speaker 2: make you uncomfortable, not too cold to make you uncomfortable,

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Speaker 2: but warm enough to give you a pleasant sensation.

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Speaker 3: Okay, can you close your eyes when you're ready. Okay,

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Speaker 3: Visualize a relaxing blue light above your face, a relaxing

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Speaker 3: blue light that you're inhaling, moving all the way into

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Speaker 3: your shace. Chill your shace, becoming more and more relaxed,

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Speaker 3: and feel all the muscles of your face relaxing with

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Speaker 3: every inhalation and with every exhalation. Allow all stress, all

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Speaker 3: tensions on bluckages. To live your face, and now allow

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Speaker 3: the eye to move into your neck to relax your neck.

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Speaker 3: So boose, that's repret that you take and feel all

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Speaker 3: the blockages, all stress, all tensions needing your neck, allow

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Speaker 3: the light to move into your shoulders. Relax your shoulders.

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Speaker 1: So both hypnosis sessions went on like this for several minutes.

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Speaker 1: They had me focus on each part of my body

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Speaker 1: and relaxing them one by one. It's not too different

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Speaker 1: from what you might do in a yoga or meditation class,

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Speaker 1: and the idea is to get your mind to a

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Speaker 1: place where it's ready to take suggestions. These suggestions are

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Speaker 1: what makes hypnosis different from say, meditation or mindfulness. First,

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Speaker 1: the hypnotists might start making suggestions that take you deeper

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Speaker 1: and deeper into your own thoughts and imagination.

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Speaker 3: Focus your imagination, your awareness, and as this light finds

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Speaker 3: you with awareness that enhanced focus, all the blockages to

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Speaker 3: a deep process, distractions all on pleasant thoughts, They all

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Speaker 3: evaporate and you're filled with night. How can you to

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Speaker 3: be ready journey into your subconscious mind? Enjoy the place,

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Speaker 3: and when you're ready to meet the place, say.

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Speaker 4: Okay, okay, now, taking with you all the joy, all

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Speaker 4: the happiness of the safety of this place to stay

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Speaker 4: with you throughout the session and beyond it.

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Speaker 3: I will come from three to one when I reach one,

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Speaker 3: and you can imagine yourselves on top of stairs. States

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Speaker 3: that in you to the gate of your subconscious mind

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Speaker 3: three to one. See the stairs and see yourself going

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Speaker 3: down the stairs. With every step you count the number backward,

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Speaker 3: and you go downward, closer to the gate of your

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Speaker 3: subconscious mind and deeper into his process. So starting from twenty,

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Speaker 3: can you count out.

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Speaker 5: Lock twenty nineteen eighteen.

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Speaker 3: Ohing grossure and closer to the gate of your your

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Speaker 3: subconscious mind seventeen.

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Speaker 1: Now when the hypnotist thinks you are fully immersed, some

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Speaker 1: scientists believe this is an altered state of consciousness. An

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Speaker 1: altered state of consciousness is just a different way for

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Speaker 1: your mind to be. Normally, we are aware of what's

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Speaker 1: around us, and we are constantly thinking about what we're

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Speaker 1: going to do next. But several times a day we

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Speaker 1: all enter into different states of consciousness. For example, you've

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Speaker 1: been listening to my voice for the last few minutes

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Speaker 1: and paying attention, and you've probably tuned out the rest

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Speaker 1: of the world. You've been a little zoned out. It's

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Speaker 1: like when you're driving and suddenly you realize, oh, we're here.

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Speaker 1: You don't remember actually driving the last ten miles or

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Speaker 1: when you get into the zone when you're running or

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Speaker 1: doing exercise, or when someone's watching TV and they look

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Speaker 1: like they're in a trance. These are all different states

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Speaker 1: of consciousness. Here's how doctor Zaheti explains it.

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Speaker 2: At some point, you will get absorbed in your imagination

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Speaker 2: so much that you get dissociated from the environments. So

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Speaker 2: this concept is an altered state of consciousness. So you

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Speaker 2: might also understand hypnosis and as an altered state of

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Speaker 2: consciousness where instas hypnosis might the couple your cognitive control

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Speaker 2: or change heat in a way, and because of that

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Speaker 2: you might be able to experience hypnosis in this state.

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Speaker 1: The hypnotisms would then start the third step in the process,

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Speaker 1: which is to give suggestions. And there are different suggestions

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Speaker 1: hypnotists can give. For example, here is one called direct

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Speaker 1: murder idea.

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Speaker 2: So just imagining this water, watching all your anxieties, all

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Speaker 2: your stresses, and getting more and more comfortable. Now, whenever

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Speaker 2: this anxiety and stress that you had previously are gone

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Speaker 2: and you feel more relaxed, you can start imagining a

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Speaker 2: couple of colorful balloons being tied to your fingers. Now,

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Speaker 2: look at these balloons and different color that they have

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Speaker 2: probably remember when we were kids, we were playing with

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Speaker 2: these balloons. We were having a lot of fun. Now

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Speaker 2: imagine these balloons and as you are just seeing them

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Speaker 2: more and more vividly, this positive experience that you had

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Speaker 2: during your childhood is going to feel your hand. And

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Speaker 2: then these positive experiences are going to make your fingers

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Speaker 2: and hand lighter and lighter. This might start with a

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Speaker 2: tingling sensation, and then your fingers and your hand is

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Speaker 2: going to feel lighter and lighter, and at any point

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Speaker 2: when they are light enough that they want to start

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Speaker 2: moving in the air, led them to move.

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Speaker 1: What doctor say Eddy is doing here is giving me

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Speaker 1: what's called a direct motor idea. In this case, he's

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Speaker 1: suggesting that I imagine balloons tied to my hands, and

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Speaker 1: then visualize those balloons lifting my hands. And from a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who go through this, their hands will

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Speaker 1: actually move and they'll feel like their hands are moving

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Speaker 1: on their own. Another type of suggestion is to access

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Speaker 1: lost memories.

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Speaker 3: And now looking from to you see a door opening,

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Speaker 3: going through the store, it takes you to a beautiful

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Speaker 3: memory of your childhood. See yourself there. What do you.

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Speaker 5: See at the beach?

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Speaker 3: Okay, how all that?

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Speaker 5: Maybe twelve ten.

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Speaker 3: Okay, and what do you see in this case?

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Speaker 5: I see the stars, the water and the moon.

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Speaker 3: And how do you feel in this place?

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Speaker 5: I feel connected to the stars.

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Speaker 3: Allow your ener child to give your backsite that he's

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Speaker 3: holding in that place that allows you to be more aware,

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Speaker 3: focused on the present moment I connected to Nay. Allow

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Speaker 3: the slide to fill you. And as the slide chains

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Speaker 3: you or blockages that prevented you from enjoying the present,

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Speaker 3: from being fully aware and mind chilling the present and

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Speaker 3: from experiencing your connection to the stars and to mature,

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Speaker 3: allow them all to evaporate. And when the slide chaines

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Speaker 3: you and one to blockages, evaporate and say okay.

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Speaker 1: The last kind of suggestion that a hypnotist can give

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Speaker 1: you is the clinical or therapy related suggestion. This is

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Speaker 1: if you want to change something about your behavior, like

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Speaker 1: if you want to cure a phobia or lose weight

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Speaker 1: or quit smoking. For example, here's how doctor is a heady.

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Speaker 1: We describe hypnotizing someone who wants to lose weight from

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Speaker 1: eating too much chocolate.

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Speaker 2: So if you are very much into chocolate and then

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Speaker 2: you feel hopeless when you see chocolate and you need

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Speaker 2: to buy it. I can just create association for you

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Speaker 2: during hypnosisself whenever you see chocolate, but now you think

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Speaker 2: about the future when you didn't eat this chocolate versus

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Speaker 2: the future that you ate this chocolate, and then this

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Speaker 2: mental practice is going to create that association. Next time

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Speaker 2: you see the chocolate, you will have this couple of

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Speaker 2: milliseconds to think about these two different futures, and that

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Speaker 2: is enough for you to inhibit this response.

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Speaker 1: And here's how doctor Zahdi would hypnotize someone to cure

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Speaker 1: their fear of spiders.

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Speaker 2: So if you have a phobia of a spider, let's

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Speaker 2: just say you will just imagine the spider very far

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Speaker 2: away from you. It will be very much threatening in

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Speaker 2: the beginning, and then a couple of sessions later, or

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Speaker 2: we will just bring this spider a little bit by

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Speaker 2: a little bit closer to you to the point that

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Speaker 2: you can imagine just touching the spider without getting too

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Speaker 2: much anxious. And then at some point actually like this

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Speaker 2: is going to be enough for you to lose your phobia.

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Speaker 1: And this is how doctor Jaja would hypnotize someone to

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Speaker 1: help them stop smoking.

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Speaker 3: With smoking, it's more complex. You have to see what

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Speaker 3: was associated with the habits, like some people usually like

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Speaker 3: to smoke when they're having coffee or when they're having

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Speaker 3: a drink, So you focus next time you're having coffee,

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Speaker 3: you will enjoy the coffee. Usually we emphasize on positive

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Speaker 3: suggestions rather than negative one and instead of saying you

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Speaker 3: will not have the urge to smoke, you could say

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Speaker 3: you will feel like you want to have coffee alone

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Speaker 3: without a cigarette, or you will feel repulse by cigret

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Speaker 3: it and the person knows, for example, they shouldn't be smoking.

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Speaker 3: But with hypnosis, it helps people by reinforcing not just

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Speaker 3: the will power, but reinforcing a positive response. And also

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Speaker 3: when you replace the habit, you should create new habits.

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Speaker 3: So you could encourage people to do more sport or

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Speaker 3: create positive habits instead of the habit of smoking.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So the basic idea of hypnosis is to get

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Speaker 1: the person deeply immerse in their own mind and to

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Speaker 1: get them to use their imagination to create a reality

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Speaker 1: in their head. And this reality can help them see

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Speaker 1: things from a different perspective. It almost seems like you're

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Speaker 1: creating a simulated reality for the subject, and it's safe

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Speaker 1: because it's a simulation, but it gives you nevertheless, an

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Speaker 1: experience that can change the way you think, just like

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Speaker 1: any real experience can change the way you think.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. We very much actually believe that it's actually like

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Speaker 2: a simulation of real word, that you can't actually go

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Speaker 2: through it and without consequences, that you're usually just facing

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Speaker 2: real word.

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Speaker 1: Okay, the next question you might have is does it

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Speaker 1: all work? And where are experts able to hypnotize me?

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Speaker 1: We'll get to that in our next segment, but first,

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Speaker 1: here's the last step in the hypnosis process, which is

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Speaker 1: to end the hypnosis session.

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Speaker 3: Enjoyed this beautifulfiling of calmness, of satisfaction, allowing these feelings

435
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 3: to manifest more and more, being great for the past,

436
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,880
Speaker 3: the future, and the peasant. I would come from five

437
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 3: to one, and when I reach one, you can open

438
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 3: your eyes. But is your subconscious mind accepting for all

439
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 3: the suggestions, willing to allow their manifestation in your lives?

440
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 5: Yes?

441
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 2: For is there.

442
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 3: Anything preventing you from being mindful, to relax and cultural

443
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 3: adisponsive to any of the suggestions you have resist?

444
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 2: No?

445
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 5: Okay?

446
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 3: Three? Feeling the energy coming back to your body, energizing

447
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 3: every part of you, fooling you with your from flowing

448
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 3: energy plea allowing your awareness to come back to this place,

449
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 3: to the chair sitting on to the sound of repos two,

450
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,959
Speaker 3: getting ready to open your eyes? When you open your

451
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 3: eyes such and puble one when you're getting you can open.

452
00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: Us all right, when we come back, we're going to

453
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 1: find out if all of this really works. Stay with us.

454
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: You're listening to science stuff. Welcome back? Okay? Does hypnotism work?

455
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,360
Speaker 1: And where are two experts able to hypnotize me? According

456
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: to one study published in twenty ten, cognitive hypnotherapy is

457
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: between six to eight percent better at reducing depression, anxiety,

458
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: and hopelessness than more traditional cognitive behavioral therapy. In a

459
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen review on obesity, psychologists found that people who

460
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: use hypnotherapy lost more weight than ninety four percent of

461
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 1: people who didn't use any therapy at all. And in

462
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:49,159
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, doctors found that hypnotherapy could even reduce the

463
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 1: effects of irritable bowel syndrome for some patients. Now did

464
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: it work on me?

465
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 2: Uh?

466
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 1: Kind of my session with doctor Zaheti latt at about

467
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: twenty minutes, and here was my reaction when he brought

468
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: me back.

469
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 2: And I will count down from ten to one, and

470
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 2: by each number, you're going to get more and more attentive,

471
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 2: and you will remember the fists and the experience that

472
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 2: you had with each of these numbers number ten, nine, eight, seven, six, five, four.

473
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 2: Then reach number three, you can open your eyes and

474
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 2: as soon as I say number one, you will come

475
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 2: back to here and now completely four, three, two and one.

476
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: Okay, whoa, how are you? That was interesting? Well, it's

477
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: a little bit because we are recording, and I think

478
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 1: I was still aware of that. Yeah, isn't sure, but

479
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: it really hit me. Like I think I was a

480
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 1: little bit aware the whole time, but when you started

481
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: the countdown and you said open your eyes, and I

482
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: opened my eyes, I was like, whoa, I was somewhere else, yes, exactly.

483
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: And then the part where you had me thinking about

484
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: childhood and the balloons and the joy I felt. I

485
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: almost teared up. Yeh, yeah, like I had a very emotional,

486
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: I kind of deepen my chest feeling of joy.

487
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 2: That's a very common thing. That's one of the reasons

488
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 2: that you go actually could do to those experiences because

489
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 2: they're so intense that you can easily just re experience

490
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 2: them and they're very actually effective in helping you just

491
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 2: feeling things.

492
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: And then here is my reaction to the longer forty

493
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,719
Speaker 1: minute hypnotism session with doctor Jajah.

494
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 5: Wow, I was very emotional. I was feeling a lot

495
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 5: of emotion.

496
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 2: Yeah.

497
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 3: Some people see more images some people and feel more.

498
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 2: Well.

499
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: I think I have an active imagination. So I was

500
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: definitely seeing and hearing and smelling even but at the core,

501
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 1: I could feel myself fairly emotional, like I could feel

502
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: my chest opening up. I think part of my brain

503
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,479
Speaker 1: was still thinking about the fact that we're recording this,

504
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 1: but that part of my brain felt like I wasn't

505
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: in control of my body. I don't even notice my

506
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: jaw was open, and I could tell my jaw was open,

507
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: but I couldn't close it.

508
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you have the sense of involuntariness.

509
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 5: A little bit. Yeah, so you.

510
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 3: Are in control, but your sense of volonteariness is reduced

511
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 3: and your sense of agency. You see things happen a

512
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 3: bit by them self.

513
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 1: Yes, I felt it starting to happen. Yeah, so yeah,

514
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: I definitely felt things. I think part of my brain

515
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 1: was always aware of what was happening because we were

516
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: recording the session, but part of my brain really did

517
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 1: go somewhere else. I felt that association, and at some

518
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: point I did feel that loss of agency or feeling

519
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: like I was not in control of my movements. It

520
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 1: was quite an interesting mental experience. Okay, The last question

521
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: I asked our experts was what makes someone more or

522
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: less susceptible to being hypnotized, and they both agree that

523
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: there are two skills some people have that make them

524
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: better or worse at being hypnotized. Here's how doctor Zaheti

525
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 1: puts it.

526
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 2: This is a study that we have conducted recently that

527
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 2: showed to require different cognitive abilities to respond to different

528
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 2: forms of suggestions. These different cognitive abilities are imagination.

529
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: Meaning some people are better than others at just imagining

530
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: fake scenarios.

531
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 2: Some people are better than others exactly. The second one

532
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 2: is these dissociative abilities dissociative tendencies.

533
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: Meaning my ability to just tune out of reality exactly.

534
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 1: So if we have an active imagination and you're good

535
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: at zoning or tuning out, then getting kept time is

536
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: going to be easier for you. But our experts agree

537
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: the most important factor in determining whether hypnosis works for

538
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 1: you is your expectation and how much you want it

539
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: to work on you. If you're very skeptical about it,

540
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 1: or if you don't trust a person trying to hypnotize you,

541
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: or if you don't really want it to work, then

542
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: it's not going to work for you. So is hypnotism real?

543
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: It is, but it's a reality you make up yourself.

544
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: Does that mean it's all a hoax or that you're

545
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: fooling yourself? That's one way to look at it. The

546
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: other way to look at it is that hypnosis uses

547
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: the power of your mind to help you change your

548
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: own mind. In other words, it's all about you and

549
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: giving yourself a mesmerizing experience. Thanks for joining us, See

550
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: you next time you've been listening to Science Stuff. Production

551
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio written and produced by me or Hitcham, hedited

552
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: by Rose Seguda, executive producer Jerry Rowland, an audio engineer

553
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: and mixer Ksey Peckram, and you can follow me on

554
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: social media. Just search for PhD Comics and the name

555
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: of your favorite platform. Be sure to subscribe to Sign

556
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: Stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

557
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: get your podcasts, and please tell your friends we'll be

558
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: back next Wednesday with another episode