Speaker 1: Oh, we knew we were in difficult circumstances and we
Speaker 1: were going to have to do something big. To my
Speaker 1: ever lasting regret, I said, what about Sarah Palin? We
Speaker 1: tend to prefer candidates who don't talk about us one
Speaker 1: way in Scratton and another way in San Francisco. Today
Speaker 1: on the podcast, we're bringing you the second episode of
Speaker 1: our two parts special on the Sarah Palin Interviews I
Speaker 1: did ten years ago this month on the CBS Evening News.
Speaker 1: In the first episode, we heard the behind the scenes
Speaker 1: story of how Paling got selected and three sheets to
Speaker 1: the wind On vikeed in and I stared at her
Speaker 1: and I think, I think, who is this? You know
Speaker 1: she's beautiful, but who is this? And um Biden ran
Speaker 1: over and he said, who's Sarah Palin? Then we got
Speaker 1: the backstage view of palin celebrated speech at the two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight Republican National Convention. I was in the
Speaker 1: box with the big donors. I was in the back
Speaker 1: room with John McCain and they were mesmerized by her.
Speaker 1: A couple of minutes and he's like, she's she's she's
Speaker 1: sucking great, right, Sarah Palin breathed new life into the
Speaker 1: McCain campaign. But then it was time to answer some
Speaker 1: real questions from the press. Why isn't it better Governor
Speaker 1: Palin to spend seven hundred billion dollars helping middle class
Speaker 1: families who are struggling with healthcare, housing, gas, and groceries. Ultimately,
Speaker 1: what the bail out does is help those who are
Speaker 1: concerned about the healthcare reform that is needed to help
Speaker 1: shore up our economy, helping the it's got to be
Speaker 1: all about job creation to shoring up our economy and
Speaker 1: putting it back on the right track. So this interview
Speaker 1: was famous at the time and got a lot of play,
Speaker 1: but a lot of the behind the scenes stories we
Speaker 1: heard in part one we're really fascinating and new to us.
Speaker 1: That's right. A lot of advisers said they were telling
Speaker 1: us things for the very first time. And by the way,
Speaker 1: if you haven't heard the first part of this two
Speaker 1: part series, now is a good time to hit pause
Speaker 1: and give that episode a listen and then come back.
Speaker 1: In this episode, we'll take a look at what came
Speaker 1: after my interviews with Sarah Palin, the struggles of the
Speaker 1: McCain campaign, Palin's decision to start quote going rogue, and
Speaker 1: most of all, how she changed the game and ushered
Speaker 1: in a new era in American politics. They say I
Speaker 1: have the most loyal people. Did you ever see that
Speaker 1: where I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue
Speaker 1: and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters? Okay?
Speaker 1: Just like incredible. So the mccing guys are sitting around,
Speaker 1: they've got a pullback saying they're losing, and they're freaking out,
Speaker 1: and they're seeing all this average about how Obama's turned
Speaker 1: off all the women. And somebody popped up through the
Speaker 1: floor boards. I don't know if it was Steve Schmidt
Speaker 1: or whoever it was, but somebody said, there's a woman
Speaker 1: in Alaska who's really great. That's Republican political consultant Mike Murphy.
Speaker 1: He was friends with John McCain and a top advisor
Speaker 1: when the Arizona senator first ran for president back in
Speaker 1: two thousand. That was, of course, when McCain made his
Speaker 1: name riding the Straight Talk Express, but ultimately lost the
Speaker 1: nomination to George W. Bush. Proudly accept your nomination. I
Speaker 1: have said that I will support the nominee of the party.
Speaker 1: I look forward to enthusiastically campaigning for Governor Busch for
Speaker 1: the next six months, but when McCain finally won his
Speaker 1: party's nomination in two thousand eight, Murphy watched from the sidelines.
Speaker 1: At first she was new and interesting and pretty and
Speaker 1: not a typical grumpy, old white Republican guy. But I uh,
Speaker 1: I think the first act was that new splash of excitement,
Speaker 1: and then the second act was unraveling the meltdown, the
Speaker 1: true Hollywood story of Sarah Palin, and that that was
Speaker 1: It's cruel but interesting to watch somebody who was incapable
Speaker 1: melt under constant media scrutiny, and then the professional kind
Speaker 1: of Tina Fey comedy while just grinding away. We don't
Speaker 1: know if this climate change, WHOSI what's it is man
Speaker 1: made or if it's just a natural part of the
Speaker 1: end of days. But those SNL sketches were not the
Speaker 1: only thing grinding away at Sarah Palin. The media was
Speaker 1: relentless with the interviews she has done are raising eyebrows.
Speaker 1: The most recent with Katie Curran. Excerpt from an interview
Speaker 1: with Katie Kuric. Here's the question, is Governor Sarah Palin
Speaker 1: qualified to be president? And remember, around the same time
Speaker 1: Palin was starting to draw some serious scrutiny, the global
Speaker 1: economy was collapsing, and McCain had a big announcement to
Speaker 1: make tomorrow morning, I'll suspend my campaign and return to Washington.
Speaker 1: As part of that campaign suspension, McCain requested that the
Speaker 1: presidential debate, scheduled for two days later, be postponed. His opponent,
Speaker 1: Barack Obama, pushed back, it's my belief that this is
Speaker 1: exactly the time when the American people need to hear
Speaker 1: from the person who, in approximately forty days will be
Speaker 1: responsible for dealing with this mess. It ended up looking
Speaker 1: a bit like McCain was trying to duck the first debate,
Speaker 1: or it was some kind of publicity stunt. Yeah, either way,
Speaker 1: it wasn't a good look. McCain ended up going to
Speaker 1: the debate, But the bottom line is that in the
Speaker 1: three week period between the convention and that debate, he'd
Speaker 1: gone from a dead heat in the polls to nine
Speaker 1: points down. Post debate, Pale and did another interview with
Speaker 1: you on CBS. That's right, Brian, but this time it
Speaker 1: was a joint interview with John McCain. They hoped to
Speaker 1: stem the damage from the first interview, but they couldn't
Speaker 1: quite present a united front. Over the weekend, Governor Palin,
Speaker 1: you said the U. S Should absolutely launch cross border
Speaker 1: attacks from Afghanistan into Pakistan to quote stop the terrorists
Speaker 1: from coming any further in. Now, that's almost the exact
Speaker 1: position Barack Obama has taken, and that you, Senator McCain
Speaker 1: have criticized as something you do not say out loud. So,
Speaker 1: Governor Palin, are you two on the same page. We
Speaker 1: had a great discussion with President. Then in early October,
Speaker 1: bad news started to surface. In Alaska, Sarah Palin found
Speaker 1: herself embroiled in trooper gate. Last July, Palin fired Alaska's
Speaker 1: Public Safety Commissioner, Walt Monaghan. He says he was fired
Speaker 1: because he refused to fire Palin's former brother in law,
Speaker 1: Mike Wootton, a state trooper. And then there was the
Speaker 1: so called Bridge to Nowhere. On the campaign trail, Sarah
Speaker 1: Palin said, thanks, but no thanks for that bridge to
Speaker 1: nowhere up in Alaska. If our state wanted a bridge,
Speaker 1: we were going to build it ourselves. But as it
Speaker 1: turns out, she actually did support that project, which really
Speaker 1: undercut her image as this outsider who defied the wastefulness
Speaker 1: of Washington, and then in mid October, leaks from the
Speaker 1: McCain campaign about Governor Palin's erratic behavior and reports that
Speaker 1: she had been spending lots of campaign funds on clothing
Speaker 1: for her and her family, like a hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: thousand dollars worth. A New York Times article from late
Speaker 1: October noted a seventy five thousand dollar tab at Nemon
Speaker 1: Marcus at about fifty thousand at Saxfith Avenue. All these
Speaker 1: embarrassments really started to add up. It was pretty clear
Speaker 1: the McCain campaign was falling out of love with Sarah Palin. So, Steve,
Speaker 1: at this point, did you entertain any thoughts of replacing
Speaker 1: her on the Republican ticket? Campaign strategist doesn't, I mean,
Speaker 1: doesn't have that power right unilaterally. That's Steve Schmidt, a
Speaker 1: senior McCain adviser. We heard a lot from him in
Speaker 1: Part one. We had a conversation amongst a small group
Speaker 1: after Lehman Brothers went down and the global economy collapse,
Speaker 1: that this was something that we would talk about, we
Speaker 1: would entertain, and that would only be on the basis
Speaker 1: of upward momentum in the race, Brian. We were both
Speaker 1: stunned when Steve Schmidt told us that, Yeah, Katie, I
Speaker 1: thought this was absolutely incredible. In other words, Schmidt and
Speaker 1: a small group within the McCain campaign agreed that if
Speaker 1: it looked like McCain might actually win, they would go
Speaker 1: to him to discuss dropping Sarah Palin. She was creating
Speaker 1: not just political problems, but potentially legal ones as well.
Speaker 1: Everywhere He's candidates go, they're they're handed, you know, a
Speaker 1: jersey jacket. You know, there's some there's some gift that
Speaker 1: someone gives. And you know, for McCain and Obama, who
Speaker 1: were both senators, and ethics laws with felony provisions on it.
Speaker 1: You have to take those items, log them in, send
Speaker 1: them back to the campaign headquarters, and if the candidate
Speaker 1: wants this stuff at the end of the campaign, they
Speaker 1: can buy it, right, but you can't accept the gift.
Speaker 1: And so in Palin's case, you had hundreds of thousands
Speaker 1: of dollars of clothes purchases that were obscenely inappropriate. You
Speaker 1: had no gifts being logged in, and each one of
Speaker 1: these things was a felony violation right of Alaska ethics law.
Speaker 1: And I honest to God, believed that if we were
Speaker 1: somehow able to manage to win in this, she never
Speaker 1: would have made it to the oath of office because
Speaker 1: of the hundreds of felony violations of free gifts, free
Speaker 1: ship and everything else that they grifted off of the campaign,
Speaker 1: and it would all come out. So wait a second.
Speaker 1: You had total confidence that if McCain were elected, Palin
Speaker 1: would never have been come vice president. That's right by
Speaker 1: the middle of it, because each pair of Ferragamo shoes
Speaker 1: was a felony. That's a felony. The ethics laws of
Speaker 1: the of the state were crystal clear. This seems almost
Speaker 1: in this era of Trump, almost traite. But if the
Speaker 1: McCain campaign was getting exasperated with Sarah Palon, it was
Speaker 1: clear she was getting fed up too. I think that
Speaker 1: there were probably moments and times where Sarah decided to
Speaker 1: screw this, I'm just gonna do this the way I
Speaker 1: feel it, which always got the more natural response from
Speaker 1: the audience, and that was really evident a lot of
Speaker 1: times when she and McCain were together. That's Michael Steele,
Speaker 1: the former chairman of the Republican National Committee. He defends
Speaker 1: Pale and style of aggressive campaigning, which was so different
Speaker 1: from John McCain's more measured approach. Listen here as McCain
Speaker 1: speaks with one of his supporters that town hall. This
Speaker 1: is one of those classic McCain moments that was replayed
Speaker 1: a lot when he died in August. I can't trust Obama.
Speaker 1: I have read about him, and he's not He's not
Speaker 1: he's a UM. He's an Arab. He is not no
Speaker 1: no man, no man, He's a He's a He's a
Speaker 1: decent family man, citizen that I just happened to have
Speaker 1: disagreements with on on fundamental issues. And that's what this
Speaker 1: campaign is all about. He's not, thank you, UM, we're
Speaker 1: scared of an Obama presidency. I have to tell you
Speaker 1: he is a decent person and a person that you
Speaker 1: do not have to be scared as president United States. Now,
Speaker 1: I just now, I just the thing is, McCain actually
Speaker 1: had no problem going negative against Barack Obama, but there
Speaker 1: were certain lines he just wouldn't cross. But for Palin
Speaker 1: there didn't seem to be an lines. She didn't hesitate
Speaker 1: to paint Obama as different from her and her supporters.
Speaker 1: I am just so fearful that this is not a
Speaker 1: man who sees America. This is not a man who
Speaker 1: sees America. Man, you and I Derreica as you and
Speaker 1: I see America. She used guilt by associations our opponents.
Speaker 1: Is someone who sees America as imperfect enough to pall
Speaker 1: around with terrorists who targeted their own country, to work
Speaker 1: with a former domestics with her former domestic terrorist kind
Speaker 1: of targeted his own country. Press bashing this vs. Coming
Speaker 1: from the lamestream media. Don't get sucked into the lamestream
Speaker 1: media's lies about how conservative America's standing up for freedom
Speaker 1: and her rallies were increasingly marked by volatile outburst. Washington
Speaker 1: Post reporting that when Governor Palin recounted the Obama and
Speaker 1: Air's portion of her stump speech in Clearwater, one man
Speaker 1: in the audience proposing to quote kill him whether the
Speaker 1: remark was great, you're the terrorist ires of all the ires,
Speaker 1: Palin never lifted a finger to tap down those feelings.
Speaker 1: Do you think that was a mistake. You know, that's
Speaker 1: a good question. I don't know. That's Michael Steele again.
Speaker 1: Always in every campaign was the role of the vice
Speaker 1: presidential candidate to be the attack dog. It's the attack
Speaker 1: dog I'm the bad cop, you're the good cop. Mr.
Speaker 1: Presidential nominee. Why is it so different? Because she hit
Speaker 1: some hot buttons that people didn't want hit. So I'm
Speaker 1: not going to place that completely on Sarah's shoulders because
Speaker 1: there was some derivative benefit to the campaign for it.
Speaker 1: It's interesting that Michael Steele, who was the first black
Speaker 1: chair of the Republican Party, says Palin got too much
Speaker 1: flak for her campaign rhetoric. Okay, I think what colors that,
Speaker 1: if I can use that word, is the fact that
Speaker 1: they were running against an African American UM. If Obama
Speaker 1: was some white guy from Illinois, I don't think people
Speaker 1: would have this take the same Umbridge um and see
Speaker 1: the same level of dangerous rhetoric. But but Republican audiences
Speaker 1: didn't shout treason, terrorists kill him about Al Gore and
Speaker 1: John Kerry. No, they didn't. They shouted other things that were,
Speaker 1: you know, just as reprehensible. Do you think Palin was
Speaker 1: using race in some sense? She wasn't using race in
Speaker 1: some sense. She was using race. This was he's not
Speaker 1: one of us, he's different, He's one of them. That's
Speaker 1: Jessica Gellen, who covered Palin for CNN was the community
Speaker 1: organizer attack about race. I think that was about race
Speaker 1: and class. How so he's organizing those people to get power,
Speaker 1: and that's a threat. I think that's implicit. Well, if
Speaker 1: Palin was using a dog whistle when it came to
Speaker 1: issues of race and class, she was using a bullhorn
Speaker 1: when it came to attacking the media. Jessica Yellen covered
Speaker 1: many Palin rallies. The rally was set up was outdoors,
Speaker 1: and she was on the podium and then there were
Speaker 1: about seven thousand people there and then we're right up
Speaker 1: against the crowd on these rafters, and at one point
Speaker 1: she was rilling people up about the lamestream media and
Speaker 1: how dishonest we are. And then she said, turn around,
Speaker 1: turn around there, right there, and you look down. There's
Speaker 1: a sea of people sort of you know, throwing their
Speaker 1: fist and looking truly enraged. And I didn't feel necessarily
Speaker 1: physically threatened. I just could sense they perceived us as
Speaker 1: so hostile to what they value and so almost un
Speaker 1: American in their eyes. And it was so oppositional to
Speaker 1: everything that I've ever thought about America and how we
Speaker 1: engage in politics. And I realized that there was this
Speaker 1: real divide and it was being fanned. People didn't really
Speaker 1: appreciate how intense and raw that emotion was and how
Speaker 1: the media it was seen as connected totally with the
Speaker 1: establishment and what is perceived as wrong in this country.
Speaker 1: Don't get sucked into the lamestream media's lies about concerned
Speaker 1: of America's standing up for not since Richard Nixon's VP
Speaker 1: Spureau Agnew called the press nattering nabobs of negativism, had
Speaker 1: a political figure so vilified the media. In contrast, John
Speaker 1: McCain didn't go after the press. He courted them. Yeah, Katie,
Speaker 1: wasn't it true that before the joint interview you did
Speaker 1: with McCain and Palin, McCain made a point of complimenting you.
Speaker 1: Yes he did. Brian. In fact, with Sarah Palin sitting
Speaker 1: right next to him, he said, Katie, good to see you.
Speaker 1: Thank you for that interview with Governor Palin. I thought
Speaker 1: it was very fair. I just wish I still had
Speaker 1: that on tape. Yeah, me too, But Sarah Palin was
Speaker 1: an entirely different political animal. She was hitting notes that
Speaker 1: other Republicans shied away from. Here's Mike Murphy. I think
Speaker 1: it's more you can hear in McCain when he found
Speaker 1: his instincts the old institution respecting music of the traditional
Speaker 1: writer center Republican Party, and in her music which was
Speaker 1: all by ear to the crowds, the primary voters who
Speaker 1: would actually show up for the stuff, the music of
Speaker 1: the anti institutionalism, the populism. So I mean, that's definite
Speaker 1: evidence that the primary voters were moving away from the
Speaker 1: old model, that that candidates like McCain, Bush Family, Bob Dole,
Speaker 1: you know, had all grant it. So the difference between
Speaker 1: Palin and her forerunners on the Republican ticket is that
Speaker 1: those people you think showed more restraint in telling the
Speaker 1: base what they wanted to hear. Yeah, yeah, they managed
Speaker 1: the base, uh, because look at primary voters, they generally
Speaker 1: would rather have the hot sauce. And both parties, by
Speaker 1: the way, and so I think she started seeing primary
Speaker 1: voters and gave them what they wanted, because once you
Speaker 1: would feed off the crowd. And two it was in
Speaker 1: her interest as she started losing faith in the campaign's
Speaker 1: ability to beat the President Obama. And as much as
Speaker 1: Palin excited the base and gave them plenty of hot sauce,
Speaker 1: it just wasn't enough, and CNN can now project that
Speaker 1: Barack Obama will become the President elect of the United
Speaker 1: States with the McCain Palin ticket got of the vote.
Speaker 1: He will be the first African American president. But Palin
Speaker 1: was just getting the base warmed up after the break.
Speaker 1: The Republic Again party is on fire in Chicago. Let's
Speaker 1: listen in for a moment. A little bit earlier this sevenent,
Speaker 1: I received an extraordinarily gracious call from Centator for pa.
Speaker 1: I congratulate him. I congratulate Governor Palin. It's February two.
Speaker 1: Barack Obama has been in office for just over a year.
Speaker 1: The left is energized, and the president is center stage.
Speaker 1: Here he is addressing the Winter meeting of the Democratic
Speaker 1: National Committee. Let me be clear, I am not going
Speaker 1: to walk away from health insurance reform. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to walk away on this challenge. I'm not gonna walk
Speaker 1: away on any challenge. We're moving forward. On the same
Speaker 1: day as that speech, down in Nashville, another political celebrity
Speaker 1: was take making a very different stage. It was the
Speaker 1: first ever Tea Party national convention, and Sarah Palin was
Speaker 1: the star. This was all part of that hope and
Speaker 1: change and transparency. And now a year later, I got
Speaker 1: to ask the supporters of all that, how's that hopey,
Speaker 1: changey stuff working out for you? She wrote a memoir,
Speaker 1: Going Rogue, which incidentally sold two million copies, and joined
Speaker 1: Fox News as a political commentator. Governor, can we trust them? Well?
Speaker 1: Can I trust our federal government? Um? Is the bear Catholic?
Speaker 1: Does the Pope live in the woods? No? I do
Speaker 1: not trust our federal government. Her brand of politics was
Speaker 1: gaining steam. Even John McCain had to respond. Running for
Speaker 1: re election back in two ten, he was challenged by
Speaker 1: a Tea Party candidate, and as a result, both his
Speaker 1: rhetoric and his record took a sharp right turn. Complete
Speaker 1: the dang fins, Senator, you're one of us. I'm John McCain,
Speaker 1: and I approved this message. A border fence That sure
Speaker 1: sounds familiar. Now let's fast forward a year to two
Speaker 1: thousand eleven. Sarah Palin's back on Fox N Governor Donald
Speaker 1: Trump was considering a run for the presidency. Uh says
Speaker 1: that he's got investigators in Hawaii looking for President Obama's
Speaker 1: birth certificate. What do you make of that? Well, I
Speaker 1: appreciate that the Donald wants to spend his resources and
Speaker 1: getting to the bottom of something that it so interests
Speaker 1: him in many Americans, you know, more power to him.
Speaker 1: Hallen wasn't just defending Donald Trump on the birther argument.
Speaker 1: The two were also breaking bread, or at least sharing
Speaker 1: a pizza in New York City. Remember that, Brian, I do,
Speaker 1: and I remember that. People commented on the fact that
Speaker 1: he ate his pizza with a knife and fork. I
Speaker 1: remember that as well. Who does that? Actually? I do
Speaker 1: that sometimes too. Anyway, they seem to be pretty chummy,
Speaker 1: and when Palin hosted a political talk show, she invited
Speaker 1: Donald Trump to be her guest. I have to tell
Speaker 1: you you are a terrific person and it's great to
Speaker 1: be with you. Thank you for taking your valuable time
Speaker 1: and share you with us. Thank you. It seemed like
Speaker 1: they were two piece in a political pod, the antithesis
Speaker 1: of policy walks, flamethrowing populace, antagonists of Obama, and vehement
Speaker 1: critics of the press, except, of course, Fox News. So
Speaker 1: it was no real surprise when two weeks before the
Speaker 1: Iowa Caucuses in perfectly positioned to let you make America
Speaker 1: great again? Are you ready for that? Iowa? Our next
Speaker 1: president of the United States, Donald J. Trump. Palin's endorsement
Speaker 1: was seen as a real boon to Trump's candidacy because
Speaker 1: she still had a big following among the Republican base.
Speaker 1: That's right, and at that point, Brian, as you'll recall,
Speaker 1: very few people thought Donald Trump would ever get the nomination.
Speaker 1: But Palin seemed to be right back in her element
Speaker 1: at that press conference, particularly relishing the chance to needle
Speaker 1: the national media. Hands are spinning, media heads are spinning.
Speaker 1: This is going to be so much fun. The surprising
Speaker 1: rise of Donald Trump made me reflect once again on
Speaker 1: those interviews I did with Sarah Palin. She might not
Speaker 1: have been able to name a single newspaper or magazine,
Speaker 1: but she did read where the electorate, or at least
Speaker 1: a significant part of it, was moving. She may have
Speaker 1: stumbled over issues, but she found firm footing on the
Speaker 1: political stage, where image and personality seemed to trump policy details.
Speaker 1: And Katie, she was really early to a trend that's
Speaker 1: exploded since the financial crisis, a declining faith in institutions,
Speaker 1: disdain for experts and elites, not just here in the
Speaker 1: US but around the world. I think that people in
Speaker 1: this country have had enough of experts with organizations any
Speaker 1: from organizations with acronyms, saying that they know what is
Speaker 1: best in getting consistently wrong. We've also seen more and
Speaker 1: more fear of the other Europe grappling with refugees and
Speaker 1: America with undocumented immigrants. Both Palin and Trump made these
Speaker 1: issues central to their message. Here's former Obama chief strategists
Speaker 1: David axel Rod. There's no doubt that Palin's appeal and
Speaker 1: Trump's appealed draw on racial resentment. That's not the entire story,
Speaker 1: but that's a that's a big piece of it. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, in Trump's case, he could not have been
Speaker 1: more self conscious about it from the time he came
Speaker 1: down the escalator, you know, blasting uh and in the
Speaker 1: ugly a sort of way at at immigrants from Mexico.
Speaker 1: They're bringing crime, their rapists, and some I assume are
Speaker 1: good people. He went after the racial resentment vote. But
Speaker 1: we should point out there are two fundamental ways Sarah
Speaker 1: Palin was not like Donald Trump. One was her critique
Speaker 1: of Russia. It's true that her comments about Russia were
Speaker 1: ridiculed at the time, but Palin's assessment of Putin back
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight feels spot on today, and
Speaker 1: we've got to keep an eye on Russia. For Russia
Speaker 1: to have exerted such pressure in terms of invading a
Speaker 1: smaller democratic country unprovoked is unacceptable and we have to
Speaker 1: keep I do believe unprovoked, and we have got to
Speaker 1: keep our eyes on Russia under the leadership. There the
Speaker 1: other difference. Oh yeah, Palin is a woman, obviously, and
Speaker 1: I wonder whether Palin's gender can help us understand why
Speaker 1: she was punished for her lack of knowledge in two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight, but eight years later, Donald Trump managed
Speaker 1: to get away with knowing very little, sometimes shockingly little.
Speaker 1: Don't believe those phony numbers when you hear four point
Speaker 1: nine and five percent unemployment, the numbers probably as high
Speaker 1: as thirty five. In fact, I even heard recently, I
Speaker 1: know more about ices than the generals do. Believe me.
Speaker 1: We have a lower incarceration rate for Mexican immigrants and
Speaker 1: illegal immigrants, and we do for any U s points.
Speaker 1: It's a wrong statistic. Go check your numbers. It's totally wrong.
Speaker 1: It sounds good, it sounds good. It's a wrong statistic.
Speaker 1: Check your numbers, I asked Nicole Wallace. Who was Palents
Speaker 1: advisor during the early stages of the campaign, if she
Speaker 1: thought sexism played a role in why Trump succeeded and
Speaker 1: Palin didn't. Sure, of course, Again, you know, Donald Trump
Speaker 1: is more ignorant than Sarah Palin and didn't go down trying.
Speaker 1: She fell asleep at night with a highlighter in her
Speaker 1: hand every night, trying to bridge the gaps in her
Speaker 1: knowledge and trying to not disappoint John McCain. I didn't
Speaker 1: see Donald Trump, and I just covered him. I didn't
Speaker 1: never work for him, but I didn't see him trying
Speaker 1: at any point to bridge any of the gaps in
Speaker 1: his knowledge. So I think she paid a bigger price
Speaker 1: for her ignorance than Donald Trump has for his. When
Speaker 1: you are a conservative Republican woman, you challenge kind of
Speaker 1: the rules of what women are supposed to be. Here again,
Speaker 1: Mike Murphy, and pop culture is quick to wheel on
Speaker 1: you as a caricature. Now, Palin, with her lack of
Speaker 1: depth and gravitas, made a lot worse. But I think
Speaker 1: they and you know, this thing changes because Hillary got
Speaker 1: a fair amount of beating. But when Hillary runs for
Speaker 1: president Saturday and Live is pretty soft, I mean good
Speaker 1: material when Palin runs, the whole turret turns and she
Speaker 1: was ratings, she was show business, so she got in
Speaker 1: that hot frying pan, which the campaign wanted because they
Speaker 1: thought she was a star, and she couldn't take it.
Speaker 1: And the world of evaluating candidates, I think is a
Speaker 1: little harsher on Republican women than Democratic women. Whether the
Speaker 1: media is tougher on Republican women is up for debate,
Speaker 1: but what's not debatable is that the media is tougher
Speaker 1: on women in general, especially women running for national office.
Speaker 1: In fact, Palin and of course later Hillary Clinton got
Speaker 1: more negative coverage than their male counterparts and a lot
Speaker 1: more discussion about their appearance. On the other hand, the
Speaker 1: McCain campaign seemed to raise the specter of sexism to
Speaker 1: try to inoculate Governor Palin against criticism. Once again, here's
Speaker 1: Jessica Yellin when she was named and when she was
Speaker 1: headed into the convention. We hadn't had time to really
Speaker 1: vet or know that much, but I got the calls
Speaker 1: saying this is an able, experienced, knowledgeable, deeply engaged politician
Speaker 1: who has a vision for the future of the country,
Speaker 1: and any coverage that reflects otherwise as sexist and it
Speaker 1: was almost laying down a marker. And why were they
Speaker 1: being so defensive about her knowledge. Well, of course, as
Speaker 1: a reporter, your antenna immediately go up, going, oh that's interesting.
Speaker 1: What do we have to investigate here? You want women
Speaker 1: in the public eye to rise or fall on their
Speaker 1: merits and if they come under gendered sexist attack, uh,
Speaker 1: speak up and pointed out absolutely. But in the case
Speaker 1: of Sarah Palin, she would miss on the basics, she
Speaker 1: would do the Kati Kirk interview and not have answers,
Speaker 1: and then when she took heat say that it was
Speaker 1: a sexist, it was sexist to criticize her. Do you
Speaker 1: think coverage of Sarah Palin was sexist, Yes, in a
Speaker 1: different way. How First of all, I think she was
Speaker 1: dismissed early because of her gender. She was treated differently
Speaker 1: because she was an attractive young female. We don't have
Speaker 1: many women running for high office who are still i
Speaker 1: don't know how to say this, in their sexual prime,
Speaker 1: who haven't gone through menopause, who don't look like dowagers.
Speaker 1: You know, if you have gray hair and you're like
Speaker 1: a grandma, that's a lot less threatening. But when you
Speaker 1: have a woman like Sarah Palin, who's on the cover
Speaker 1: of Newsweek magazine wearing shorty shorts and showing her legs um.
Speaker 1: Even though she didn't pose that for that specific cover.
Speaker 1: You know, it's threatening in a different way because she's
Speaker 1: both attractive and seeking, you know, a Jason's the highest
Speaker 1: office in the land. So I think that played into
Speaker 1: how she was treated. Murphy sees another difference. Trump was
Speaker 1: different from Palin, and that he'd been on the Apprentice
Speaker 1: for ten years, you know, in a fake boardroom built
Speaker 1: out a cardboard and plywood, pretending to fire the second
Speaker 1: rate celebrities who are pretending to work for him to
Speaker 1: do product placement commercials inside the show. But the perception
Speaker 1: was he's the can do in charge, no bs art
Speaker 1: of the deal guy, and he was famous. Palin, her
Speaker 1: hand was totally unknown until she got beamed up with
Speaker 1: one speech to the convention, So she was a lot
Speaker 1: more vulnerable, I think to media take apart, she was
Speaker 1: a blank sheet and was defined by stupid, you know,
Speaker 1: pretty soon in somewhat sexist ways. So Trump. Trump had
Speaker 1: a lot more natural armor, and Trump was also more
Speaker 1: adroit at attacking institutions. Palin had a little bit of
Speaker 1: traditionalist in her because the rules were different then, and
Speaker 1: she also had a running mate who was not going
Speaker 1: to continent that stuff at all. So she was in
Speaker 1: a tougher position than Trump, I think, both in terms
Speaker 1: of environment and what she was armed with. Meanwhile, in
Speaker 1: the aftermath of the two thou eight campaign, Palin also
Speaker 1: positioned herself in a new way as a victim. Here
Speaker 1: again McCain adviser Steve Schmidt and Nicole Wallace. So this
Speaker 1: is this moment in time where you know, the ability
Speaker 1: to portray yourself as a victim of whatever, the deep state,
Speaker 1: big media, right, all these nefarious, conspiring sources, becomes a powerful,
Speaker 1: powerful proxy. Well, it becomes a powerful asset within the
Speaker 1: Republican Party. That this combination of victimization and grievance, and
Speaker 1: of course, if you turned out a Trump, right, what
Speaker 1: Trump understands intuitively is the victims are never going to
Speaker 1: pick another victim to be their leader. The victims want
Speaker 1: to pick an avenger to be their leader. And that's
Speaker 1: what Trump is. What changed between two thousand and eight
Speaker 1: and today? Why did this grievance politics fail with Sarah
Speaker 1: Palin but work for Donald Trump? You know, at the
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, Sarah Palin was never
Speaker 1: anything more than a victim. She wasn't able to play
Speaker 1: the role of avenger, of strongman, of toughness. And you know,
Speaker 1: Trump was a man who found his moment um at
Speaker 1: a time where there's great contempt within the Republican parties
Speaker 1: based for its elected leaders. The forces um that sustained Trump,
Speaker 1: you know, are of a direct lineage to the forces
Speaker 1: that sustained George Wallace. And what's always been the constant
Speaker 1: in the history of the country is that at moments
Speaker 1: where there has been racial progress, there has been another
Speaker 1: racial regression. The emancipation of the slaves and then the
Speaker 1: wave of terror in the eighteen seventies with the Ku
Speaker 1: Klex Klan, the heroism of African Americans in the First
Speaker 1: World War having fought for liberty assure, and you have
Speaker 1: this terrible regression in the nineteen twenties. And the reality
Speaker 1: is after the first African American president, there has been
Speaker 1: another racial regression where the forces of intolerance that have
Speaker 1: always been in this country, you know, have been ascending
Speaker 1: an assertive um. And you you've just never had the
Speaker 1: case with someone like Trump where you have a person
Speaker 1: so purposely divisive, an inciter of the worst impulses has
Speaker 1: ever gained power in the United States of America. But
Speaker 1: thus it has happened. She was the canary in the
Speaker 1: mind that the party had changed, and it had become
Speaker 1: more animated by xenophobia, by nativism, by grievances than by
Speaker 1: any single animating idea. What the party became with something
Speaker 1: unrecognizable to I think anyone that was part of the
Speaker 1: Bush era politics of compassionate conservatism, of or even Reaganism,
Speaker 1: of America as a shining city on the hill. I
Speaker 1: think what Palin ushered in she legitimized um a really ugly,
Speaker 1: angry underbelly of the Republican Party that's now it's done
Speaker 1: in its train. If there hadn't been a Sarah Palin,
Speaker 1: would there be a Donald Trump? You know? I mean,
Speaker 1: I think that that constituency was there waiting to be marshaled.
Speaker 1: And of course we saw the Tea Party movement here again.
Speaker 1: Former Obama strategist David axel Rod. To some degree, Donald
Speaker 1: Trump is a reaction to Barack Obama, just as every
Speaker 1: president is a reaction to the previous president, and Barack
Speaker 1: Obama was a jarring cultural figure to some because he
Speaker 1: was the personification of change in in a changing country. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, and that that demographic change, that cultural change
Speaker 1: was deeply, deeply concerning to the Palin Trump base. And
Speaker 1: so I look back at UH, those pale and rallies
Speaker 1: at the end of the tooth as an aide campaign,
Speaker 1: and I can draw a straight line from those UH
Speaker 1: to the election of Donald Trump. Donald Trump picked up
Speaker 1: on the kind of themes of of Palin from the
Speaker 1: sort of mining of the obvious divisions and resentments, and
Speaker 1: he exploited them brilliantly. Becoming John McCain's friend is one
Speaker 1: of the great blessings of my life. Being asked to
Speaker 1: pay tribute to him today is one of the great honors.
Speaker 1: When John McCain died in August, many famous politicians attended
Speaker 1: his funeral, from Joe Lieberman to George W. Bush. John
Speaker 1: was born to meet that kind of challenge, to defend
Speaker 1: and demonstrate the defining ideals of our nation, to Barack Obama.
Speaker 1: When John spoke with virtues like service and duty, it
Speaker 1: didn't ring hollow, But the guest list was just as
Speaker 1: notable for who wasn't on it. President Trump wasn't invited,
Speaker 1: nor was Sarah Palin. Steve Schmidt and Nicole Wallace didn't
Speaker 1: make the cut either, and Brian Steve Schmidt said this
Speaker 1: deeply saddened him. But he also told me there was
Speaker 1: really no unfinished business between them. The last thing John
Speaker 1: McCain said to him was I love you, Stevie boy.
Speaker 1: But apparently the fact that Stephen Nicole were brutally honest
Speaker 1: about Sarah Palin's shortcomings and the drama that unfolded inside
Speaker 1: the campaign was more straight talk than John McCain wanted.
Speaker 1: Or perhaps the McCain family just wanted to put aside
Speaker 1: the catastrophe of two thousand and eight and where it
Speaker 1: might have led the years since. It's probably worth noting
Speaker 1: that despite it all, John McCain never said anything negative
Speaker 1: about Sarah Palin. The only thing he did say at
Speaker 1: the very end of his life was that he wished
Speaker 1: he had picked Joe Lieberman. Do you think he would
Speaker 1: feel picking Sarah Palin was one of his biggest regrets.
Speaker 1: I think it would be wrong for me to project,
Speaker 1: you know, my pretty strong feelings onto him. I think
Speaker 1: he is one of the more remarkable political leaders that
Speaker 1: this country has produced over the last forty years. And
Speaker 1: you know, no one's ever claimed infallibility here, no one's
Speaker 1: ever said, you know, haven't made mistakes, haven't been expedient, right,
Speaker 1: haven't you know? Oh, you guys were political. We were
Speaker 1: because it was a presidential campaign. You're you're trying to win.
Speaker 1: I think everybody who who was involved in it, um
Speaker 1: and their heart of hearts knows, um, what a mistake
Speaker 1: it was. We wanted to win an election and thought
Speaker 1: John McCain would be a good president and this thing
Speaker 1: went horribly, horribly, horribly wrong, and um, you know, navigating
Speaker 1: it over those ten weeks is you know, it was
Speaker 1: something that you know, for me, I still, you know,
Speaker 1: feel very viscerally ten years later, and I suspect ten
Speaker 1: years from now will feel the same. She could have
Speaker 1: been a real force. If she had gone back to Wassilla,
Speaker 1: done her homework, had the intellectual curiosity to school herself
Speaker 1: on important policy issues and then come back with a vengeance,
Speaker 1: she could have been president. These are questions for her
Speaker 1: and that wraps up our two parts special Looking back
Speaker 1: at the Palin Interviews ten years later. A huge thank
Speaker 1: you to our producers reference John Dolor and Stephen Valentino.
Speaker 1: The episodes were mixed by John Dolor and Jared O'Connell,
Speaker 1: and of course thanks to the rest of the team
Speaker 1: at Stitcher. That's Johannah Palmer, Nora Richie, Casey Holford and
Speaker 1: Chris Bannon. Invisible Studios in l A helped out with
Speaker 1: recordings for this episode. Thanks to them as well, and
Speaker 1: of course a big thank you as always to my
Speaker 1: assistant Beth Demas and Julia Lewis, who keeps my Instagram
Speaker 1: and Twitter accounts moving and grieving that she does. Mark
Speaker 1: Phillips wrote our theme music. Katie Curriic and I are
Speaker 1: the show's executive producers. You'll find Katie all over social
Speaker 1: media if you search Katie Curic, especially worthwhile to check
Speaker 1: her out Instagram. Those stories are well, they're really something
Speaker 1: rivet I tweet from at Goldsmith b. Thanks so much
Speaker 1: for listening. We'll see you or you'll hear us next week.