1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: Oh, we knew we were in difficult circumstances and we 2 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: were going to have to do something big. To my 3 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:24,759 Speaker 1: ever lasting regret, I said, what about Sarah Palin? We 4 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: tend to prefer candidates who don't talk about us one 5 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 1: way in Scratton and another way in San Francisco. Today 6 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 1: on the podcast, we're bringing you the second episode of 7 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: our two parts special on the Sarah Palin Interviews I 8 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: did ten years ago this month on the CBS Evening News. 9 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 1: In the first episode, we heard the behind the scenes 10 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: story of how Paling got selected and three sheets to 11 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: the wind On vikeed in and I stared at her 12 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: and I think, I think, who is this? You know 13 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: she's beautiful, but who is this? And um Biden ran 14 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: over and he said, who's Sarah Palin? Then we got 15 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: the backstage view of palin celebrated speech at the two 16 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: thousand and eight Republican National Convention. I was in the 17 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: box with the big donors. I was in the back 18 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: room with John McCain and they were mesmerized by her. 19 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: A couple of minutes and he's like, she's she's she's 20 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: sucking great, right, Sarah Palin breathed new life into the 21 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,759 Speaker 1: McCain campaign. But then it was time to answer some 22 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 1: real questions from the press. Why isn't it better Governor 23 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 1: Palin to spend seven hundred billion dollars helping middle class 24 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: families who are struggling with healthcare, housing, gas, and groceries. Ultimately, 25 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 1: what the bail out does is help those who are 26 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: concerned about the healthcare reform that is needed to help 27 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: shore up our economy, helping the it's got to be 28 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: all about job creation to shoring up our economy and 29 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: putting it back on the right track. So this interview 30 00:01:57,680 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: was famous at the time and got a lot of play, 31 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: but a lot of the behind the scenes stories we 32 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: heard in part one we're really fascinating and new to us. 33 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: That's right. A lot of advisers said they were telling 34 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: us things for the very first time. And by the way, 35 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: if you haven't heard the first part of this two 36 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: part series, now is a good time to hit pause 37 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: and give that episode a listen and then come back. 38 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,239 Speaker 1: In this episode, we'll take a look at what came 39 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: after my interviews with Sarah Palin, the struggles of the 40 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: McCain campaign, Palin's decision to start quote going rogue, and 41 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: most of all, how she changed the game and ushered 42 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: in a new era in American politics. They say I 43 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 1: have the most loyal people. Did you ever see that 44 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: where I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue 45 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 1: and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters? Okay? 46 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: Just like incredible. So the mccing guys are sitting around, 47 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: they've got a pullback saying they're losing, and they're freaking out, 48 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 1: and they're seeing all this average about how Obama's turned 49 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: off all the women. And somebody popped up through the 50 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 1: floor boards. I don't know if it was Steve Schmidt 51 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: or whoever it was, but somebody said, there's a woman 52 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: in Alaska who's really great. That's Republican political consultant Mike Murphy. 53 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: He was friends with John McCain and a top advisor 54 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: when the Arizona senator first ran for president back in 55 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: two thousand. That was, of course, when McCain made his 56 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: name riding the Straight Talk Express, but ultimately lost the 57 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: nomination to George W. Bush. Proudly accept your nomination. I 58 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: have said that I will support the nominee of the party. 59 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: I look forward to enthusiastically campaigning for Governor Busch for 60 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: the next six months, but when McCain finally won his 61 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 1: party's nomination in two thousand eight, Murphy watched from the sidelines. 62 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: At first she was new and interesting and pretty and 63 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: not a typical grumpy, old white Republican guy. But I uh, 64 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: I think the first act was that new splash of excitement, 65 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: and then the second act was unraveling the meltdown, the 66 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: true Hollywood story of Sarah Palin, and that that was 67 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: It's cruel but interesting to watch somebody who was incapable 68 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 1: melt under constant media scrutiny, and then the professional kind 69 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 1: of Tina Fey comedy while just grinding away. We don't 70 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: know if this climate change, WHOSI what's it is man 71 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: made or if it's just a natural part of the 72 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 1: end of days. But those SNL sketches were not the 73 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: only thing grinding away at Sarah Palin. The media was 74 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: relentless with the interviews she has done are raising eyebrows. 75 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: The most recent with Katie Curran. Excerpt from an interview 76 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: with Katie Kuric. Here's the question, is Governor Sarah Palin 77 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 1: qualified to be president? And remember, around the same time 78 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: Palin was starting to draw some serious scrutiny, the global 79 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: economy was collapsing, and McCain had a big announcement to 80 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: make tomorrow morning, I'll suspend my campaign and return to Washington. 81 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: As part of that campaign suspension, McCain requested that the 82 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 1: presidential debate, scheduled for two days later, be postponed. His opponent, 83 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 1: Barack Obama, pushed back, it's my belief that this is 84 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: exactly the time when the American people need to hear 85 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 1: from the person who, in approximately forty days will be 86 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: responsible for dealing with this mess. It ended up looking 87 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 1: a bit like McCain was trying to duck the first debate, 88 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,799 Speaker 1: or it was some kind of publicity stunt. Yeah, either way, 89 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: it wasn't a good look. McCain ended up going to 90 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:42,919 Speaker 1: the debate, But the bottom line is that in the 91 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 1: three week period between the convention and that debate, he'd 92 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: gone from a dead heat in the polls to nine 93 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: points down. Post debate, Pale and did another interview with 94 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: you on CBS. That's right, Brian, but this time it 95 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 1: was a joint interview with John McCain. They hoped to 96 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: stem the damage from the first interview, but they couldn't 97 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,479 Speaker 1: quite present a united front. Over the weekend, Governor Palin, 98 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: you said the U. S Should absolutely launch cross border 99 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: attacks from Afghanistan into Pakistan to quote stop the terrorists 100 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: from coming any further in. Now, that's almost the exact 101 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: position Barack Obama has taken, and that you, Senator McCain 102 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 1: have criticized as something you do not say out loud. So, 103 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: Governor Palin, are you two on the same page. We 104 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: had a great discussion with President. Then in early October, 105 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: bad news started to surface. In Alaska, Sarah Palin found 106 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 1: herself embroiled in trooper gate. Last July, Palin fired Alaska's 107 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: Public Safety Commissioner, Walt Monaghan. He says he was fired 108 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 1: because he refused to fire Palin's former brother in law, 109 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: Mike Wootton, a state trooper. And then there was the 110 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: so called Bridge to Nowhere. On the campaign trail, Sarah 111 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: Palin said, thanks, but no thanks for that bridge to 112 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: nowhere up in Alaska. If our state wanted a bridge, 113 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,720 Speaker 1: we were going to build it ourselves. But as it 114 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: turns out, she actually did support that project, which really 115 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: undercut her image as this outsider who defied the wastefulness 116 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: of Washington, and then in mid October, leaks from the 117 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: McCain campaign about Governor Palin's erratic behavior and reports that 118 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: she had been spending lots of campaign funds on clothing 119 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 1: for her and her family, like a hundred and fifty 120 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: thousand dollars worth. A New York Times article from late 121 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: October noted a seventy five thousand dollar tab at Nemon 122 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: Marcus at about fifty thousand at Saxfith Avenue. All these 123 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: embarrassments really started to add up. It was pretty clear 124 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: the McCain campaign was falling out of love with Sarah Palin. So, Steve, 125 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: at this point, did you entertain any thoughts of replacing 126 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: her on the Republican ticket? Campaign strategist doesn't, I mean, 127 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: doesn't have that power right unilaterally. That's Steve Schmidt, a 128 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: senior McCain adviser. We heard a lot from him in 129 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: Part one. We had a conversation amongst a small group 130 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: after Lehman Brothers went down and the global economy collapse, 131 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 1: that this was something that we would talk about, we 132 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: would entertain, and that would only be on the basis 133 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: of upward momentum in the race, Brian. We were both 134 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: stunned when Steve Schmidt told us that, Yeah, Katie, I 135 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: thought this was absolutely incredible. In other words, Schmidt and 136 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: a small group within the McCain campaign agreed that if 137 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: it looked like McCain might actually win, they would go 138 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: to him to discuss dropping Sarah Palin. She was creating 139 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: not just political problems, but potentially legal ones as well. 140 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: Everywhere He's candidates go, they're they're handed, you know, a 141 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: jersey jacket. You know, there's some there's some gift that 142 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: someone gives. And you know, for McCain and Obama, who 143 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: were both senators, and ethics laws with felony provisions on it. 144 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: You have to take those items, log them in, send 145 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: them back to the campaign headquarters, and if the candidate 146 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: wants this stuff at the end of the campaign, they 147 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: can buy it, right, but you can't accept the gift. 148 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: And so in Palin's case, you had hundreds of thousands 149 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: of dollars of clothes purchases that were obscenely inappropriate. You 150 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: had no gifts being logged in, and each one of 151 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: these things was a felony violation right of Alaska ethics law. 152 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: And I honest to God, believed that if we were 153 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: somehow able to manage to win in this, she never 154 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 1: would have made it to the oath of office because 155 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: of the hundreds of felony violations of free gifts, free 156 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: ship and everything else that they grifted off of the campaign, 157 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: and it would all come out. So wait a second. 158 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: You had total confidence that if McCain were elected, Palin 159 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:03,079 Speaker 1: would never have been come vice president. That's right by 160 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: the middle of it, because each pair of Ferragamo shoes 161 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 1: was a felony. That's a felony. The ethics laws of 162 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 1: the of the state were crystal clear. This seems almost 163 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 1: in this era of Trump, almost traite. But if the 164 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: McCain campaign was getting exasperated with Sarah Palon, it was 165 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: clear she was getting fed up too. I think that 166 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: there were probably moments and times where Sarah decided to 167 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: screw this, I'm just gonna do this the way I 168 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,959 Speaker 1: feel it, which always got the more natural response from 169 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: the audience, and that was really evident a lot of 170 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: times when she and McCain were together. That's Michael Steele, 171 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: the former chairman of the Republican National Committee. He defends 172 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: Pale and style of aggressive campaigning, which was so different 173 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 1: from John McCain's more measured approach. Listen here as McCain 174 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: speaks with one of his supporters that town hall. This 175 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: is one of those classic McCain moments that was replayed 176 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 1: a lot when he died in August. I can't trust Obama. 177 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: I have read about him, and he's not He's not 178 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: he's a UM. He's an Arab. He is not no 179 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 1: no man, no man, He's a He's a He's a 180 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: decent family man, citizen that I just happened to have 181 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: disagreements with on on fundamental issues. And that's what this 182 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: campaign is all about. He's not, thank you, UM, we're 183 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:37,319 Speaker 1: scared of an Obama presidency. I have to tell you 184 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 1: he is a decent person and a person that you 185 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: do not have to be scared as president United States. Now, 186 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 1: I just now, I just the thing is, McCain actually 187 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: had no problem going negative against Barack Obama, but there 188 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 1: were certain lines he just wouldn't cross. But for Palin 189 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: there didn't seem to be an lines. She didn't hesitate 190 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:06,319 Speaker 1: to paint Obama as different from her and her supporters. 191 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: I am just so fearful that this is not a 192 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: man who sees America. This is not a man who 193 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: sees America. Man, you and I Derreica as you and 194 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: I see America. She used guilt by associations our opponents. 195 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: Is someone who sees America as imperfect enough to pall 196 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: around with terrorists who targeted their own country, to work 197 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 1: with a former domestics with her former domestic terrorist kind 198 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: of targeted his own country. Press bashing this vs. Coming 199 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: from the lamestream media. Don't get sucked into the lamestream 200 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: media's lies about how conservative America's standing up for freedom 201 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: and her rallies were increasingly marked by volatile outburst. Washington 202 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 1: Post reporting that when Governor Palin recounted the Obama and 203 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: Air's portion of her stump speech in Clearwater, one man 204 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: in the audience proposing to quote kill him whether the 205 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: remark was great, you're the terrorist ires of all the ires, 206 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: Palin never lifted a finger to tap down those feelings. 207 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: Do you think that was a mistake. You know, that's 208 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: a good question. I don't know. That's Michael Steele again. 209 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: Always in every campaign was the role of the vice 210 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: presidential candidate to be the attack dog. It's the attack 211 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 1: dog I'm the bad cop, you're the good cop. Mr. 212 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: Presidential nominee. Why is it so different? Because she hit 213 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: some hot buttons that people didn't want hit. So I'm 214 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: not going to place that completely on Sarah's shoulders because 215 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: there was some derivative benefit to the campaign for it. 216 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: It's interesting that Michael Steele, who was the first black 217 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 1: chair of the Republican Party, says Palin got too much 218 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: flak for her campaign rhetoric. Okay, I think what colors that, 219 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: if I can use that word, is the fact that 220 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: they were running against an African American UM. If Obama 221 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: was some white guy from Illinois, I don't think people 222 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: would have this take the same Umbridge um and see 223 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: the same level of dangerous rhetoric. But but Republican audiences 224 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: didn't shout treason, terrorists kill him about Al Gore and 225 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: John Kerry. No, they didn't. They shouted other things that were, 226 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: you know, just as reprehensible. Do you think Palin was 227 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 1: using race in some sense? She wasn't using race in 228 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: some sense. She was using race. This was he's not 229 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: one of us, he's different, He's one of them. That's 230 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 1: Jessica Gellen, who covered Palin for CNN was the community 231 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: organizer attack about race. I think that was about race 232 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: and class. How so he's organizing those people to get power, 233 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: and that's a threat. I think that's implicit. Well, if 234 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 1: Palin was using a dog whistle when it came to 235 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: issues of race and class, she was using a bullhorn 236 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: when it came to attacking the media. Jessica Yellen covered 237 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: many Palin rallies. The rally was set up was outdoors, 238 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: and she was on the podium and then there were 239 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: about seven thousand people there and then we're right up 240 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: against the crowd on these rafters, and at one point 241 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: she was rilling people up about the lamestream media and 242 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: how dishonest we are. And then she said, turn around, 243 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: turn around there, right there, and you look down. There's 244 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: a sea of people sort of you know, throwing their 245 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: fist and looking truly enraged. And I didn't feel necessarily 246 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: physically threatened. I just could sense they perceived us as 247 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: so hostile to what they value and so almost un 248 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: American in their eyes. And it was so oppositional to 249 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: everything that I've ever thought about America and how we 250 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: engage in politics. And I realized that there was this 251 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: real divide and it was being fanned. People didn't really 252 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: appreciate how intense and raw that emotion was and how 253 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: the media it was seen as connected totally with the 254 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: establishment and what is perceived as wrong in this country. 255 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: Don't get sucked into the lamestream media's lies about concerned 256 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: of America's standing up for not since Richard Nixon's VP 257 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: Spureau Agnew called the press nattering nabobs of negativism, had 258 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: a political figure so vilified the media. In contrast, John 259 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: McCain didn't go after the press. He courted them. Yeah, Katie, 260 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: wasn't it true that before the joint interview you did 261 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: with McCain and Palin, McCain made a point of complimenting you. 262 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 1: Yes he did. Brian. In fact, with Sarah Palin sitting 263 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 1: right next to him, he said, Katie, good to see you. 264 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: Thank you for that interview with Governor Palin. I thought 265 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 1: it was very fair. I just wish I still had 266 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: that on tape. Yeah, me too, But Sarah Palin was 267 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:21,199 Speaker 1: an entirely different political animal. She was hitting notes that 268 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: other Republicans shied away from. Here's Mike Murphy. I think 269 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: it's more you can hear in McCain when he found 270 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: his instincts the old institution respecting music of the traditional 271 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 1: writer center Republican Party, and in her music which was 272 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: all by ear to the crowds, the primary voters who 273 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: would actually show up for the stuff, the music of 274 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 1: the anti institutionalism, the populism. So I mean, that's definite 275 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 1: evidence that the primary voters were moving away from the 276 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 1: old model, that that candidates like McCain, Bush Family, Bob Dole, 277 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: you know, had all grant it. So the difference between 278 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 1: Palin and her forerunners on the Republican ticket is that 279 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:11,879 Speaker 1: those people you think showed more restraint in telling the 280 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: base what they wanted to hear. Yeah, yeah, they managed 281 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: the base, uh, because look at primary voters, they generally 282 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: would rather have the hot sauce. And both parties, by 283 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,880 Speaker 1: the way, and so I think she started seeing primary 284 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: voters and gave them what they wanted, because once you 285 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 1: would feed off the crowd. And two it was in 286 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: her interest as she started losing faith in the campaign's 287 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,479 Speaker 1: ability to beat the President Obama. And as much as 288 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: Palin excited the base and gave them plenty of hot sauce, 289 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,920 Speaker 1: it just wasn't enough, and CNN can now project that 290 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:47,400 Speaker 1: Barack Obama will become the President elect of the United 291 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: States with the McCain Palin ticket got of the vote. 292 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 1: He will be the first African American president. But Palin 293 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: was just getting the base warmed up after the break. 294 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: The Republic Again party is on fire in Chicago. Let's 295 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: listen in for a moment. A little bit earlier this sevenent, 296 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 1: I received an extraordinarily gracious call from Centator for pa. 297 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:28,360 Speaker 1: I congratulate him. I congratulate Governor Palin. It's February two. 298 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 1: Barack Obama has been in office for just over a year. 299 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 1: The left is energized, and the president is center stage. 300 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 1: Here he is addressing the Winter meeting of the Democratic 301 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: National Committee. Let me be clear, I am not going 302 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,679 Speaker 1: to walk away from health insurance reform. I'm not going 303 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: to walk away on this challenge. I'm not gonna walk 304 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: away on any challenge. We're moving forward. On the same 305 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: day as that speech, down in Nashville, another political celebrity 306 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 1: was take making a very different stage. It was the 307 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 1: first ever Tea Party national convention, and Sarah Palin was 308 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 1: the star. This was all part of that hope and 309 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: change and transparency. And now a year later, I got 310 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: to ask the supporters of all that, how's that hopey, 311 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 1: changey stuff working out for you? She wrote a memoir, 312 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:29,159 Speaker 1: Going Rogue, which incidentally sold two million copies, and joined 313 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: Fox News as a political commentator. Governor, can we trust them? Well? 314 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:39,880 Speaker 1: Can I trust our federal government? Um? Is the bear Catholic? 315 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: Does the Pope live in the woods? No? I do 316 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: not trust our federal government. Her brand of politics was 317 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 1: gaining steam. Even John McCain had to respond. Running for 318 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: re election back in two ten, he was challenged by 319 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: a Tea Party candidate, and as a result, both his 320 00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 1: rhetoric and his record took a sharp right turn. Complete 321 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:05,919 Speaker 1: the dang fins, Senator, you're one of us. I'm John McCain, 322 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: and I approved this message. A border fence That sure 323 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:15,160 Speaker 1: sounds familiar. Now let's fast forward a year to two 324 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: thousand eleven. Sarah Palin's back on Fox N Governor Donald 325 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: Trump was considering a run for the presidency. Uh says 326 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: that he's got investigators in Hawaii looking for President Obama's 327 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: birth certificate. What do you make of that? Well, I 328 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: appreciate that the Donald wants to spend his resources and 329 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: getting to the bottom of something that it so interests 330 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 1: him in many Americans, you know, more power to him. 331 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: Hallen wasn't just defending Donald Trump on the birther argument. 332 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: The two were also breaking bread, or at least sharing 333 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 1: a pizza in New York City. Remember that, Brian, I do, 334 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: and I remember that. People commented on the fact that 335 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:58,719 Speaker 1: he ate his pizza with a knife and fork. I 336 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 1: remember that as well. Who does that? Actually? I do 337 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,479 Speaker 1: that sometimes too. Anyway, they seem to be pretty chummy, 338 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: and when Palin hosted a political talk show, she invited 339 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 1: Donald Trump to be her guest. I have to tell 340 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: you you are a terrific person and it's great to 341 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 1: be with you. Thank you for taking your valuable time 342 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: and share you with us. Thank you. It seemed like 343 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 1: they were two piece in a political pod, the antithesis 344 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 1: of policy walks, flamethrowing populace, antagonists of Obama, and vehement 345 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: critics of the press, except, of course, Fox News. So 346 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,959 Speaker 1: it was no real surprise when two weeks before the 347 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 1: Iowa Caucuses in perfectly positioned to let you make America 348 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 1: great again? Are you ready for that? Iowa? Our next 349 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 1: president of the United States, Donald J. Trump. Palin's endorsement 350 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,679 Speaker 1: was seen as a real boon to Trump's candidacy because 351 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: she still had a big following among the Republican base. 352 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: That's right, and at that point, Brian, as you'll recall, 353 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: very few people thought Donald Trump would ever get the nomination. 354 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: But Palin seemed to be right back in her element 355 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,919 Speaker 1: at that press conference, particularly relishing the chance to needle 356 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:20,120 Speaker 1: the national media. Hands are spinning, media heads are spinning. 357 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:26,160 Speaker 1: This is going to be so much fun. The surprising 358 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: rise of Donald Trump made me reflect once again on 359 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,439 Speaker 1: those interviews I did with Sarah Palin. She might not 360 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: have been able to name a single newspaper or magazine, 361 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 1: but she did read where the electorate, or at least 362 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: a significant part of it, was moving. She may have 363 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 1: stumbled over issues, but she found firm footing on the 364 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: political stage, where image and personality seemed to trump policy details. 365 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: And Katie, she was really early to a trend that's 366 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: exploded since the financial crisis, a declining faith in institutions, 367 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: disdain for experts and elites, not just here in the 368 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: US but around the world. I think that people in 369 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:10,360 Speaker 1: this country have had enough of experts with organizations any 370 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 1: from organizations with acronyms, saying that they know what is 371 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: best in getting consistently wrong. We've also seen more and 372 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 1: more fear of the other Europe grappling with refugees and 373 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 1: America with undocumented immigrants. Both Palin and Trump made these 374 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 1: issues central to their message. Here's former Obama chief strategists 375 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: David axel Rod. There's no doubt that Palin's appeal and 376 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 1: Trump's appealed draw on racial resentment. That's not the entire story, 377 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: but that's a that's a big piece of it. And uh, 378 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: you know, in Trump's case, he could not have been 379 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: more self conscious about it from the time he came 380 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 1: down the escalator, you know, blasting uh and in the 381 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,640 Speaker 1: ugly a sort of way at at immigrants from Mexico. 382 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:08,439 Speaker 1: They're bringing crime, their rapists, and some I assume are 383 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:14,199 Speaker 1: good people. He went after the racial resentment vote. But 384 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: we should point out there are two fundamental ways Sarah 385 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,680 Speaker 1: Palin was not like Donald Trump. One was her critique 386 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 1: of Russia. It's true that her comments about Russia were 387 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 1: ridiculed at the time, but Palin's assessment of Putin back 388 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight feels spot on today, and 389 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: we've got to keep an eye on Russia. For Russia 390 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: to have exerted such pressure in terms of invading a 391 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 1: smaller democratic country unprovoked is unacceptable and we have to 392 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 1: keep I do believe unprovoked, and we have got to 393 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 1: keep our eyes on Russia under the leadership. There the 394 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: other difference. Oh yeah, Palin is a woman, obviously, and 395 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: I wonder whether Palin's gender can help us understand why 396 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: she was punished for her lack of knowledge in two 397 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 1: thousand and eight, but eight years later, Donald Trump managed 398 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: to get away with knowing very little, sometimes shockingly little. 399 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: Don't believe those phony numbers when you hear four point 400 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 1: nine and five percent unemployment, the numbers probably as high 401 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:25,439 Speaker 1: as thirty five. In fact, I even heard recently, I 402 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 1: know more about ices than the generals do. Believe me. 403 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: We have a lower incarceration rate for Mexican immigrants and 404 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: illegal immigrants, and we do for any U s points. 405 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 1: It's a wrong statistic. Go check your numbers. It's totally wrong. 406 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: It sounds good, it sounds good. It's a wrong statistic. 407 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,120 Speaker 1: Check your numbers, I asked Nicole Wallace. Who was Palents 408 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,679 Speaker 1: advisor during the early stages of the campaign, if she 409 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 1: thought sexism played a role in why Trump succeeded and 410 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 1: Palin didn't. Sure, of course, Again, you know, Donald Trump 411 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: is more ignorant than Sarah Palin and didn't go down trying. 412 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,880 Speaker 1: She fell asleep at night with a highlighter in her 413 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: hand every night, trying to bridge the gaps in her 414 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: knowledge and trying to not disappoint John McCain. I didn't 415 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: see Donald Trump, and I just covered him. I didn't 416 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: never work for him, but I didn't see him trying 417 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 1: at any point to bridge any of the gaps in 418 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,640 Speaker 1: his knowledge. So I think she paid a bigger price 419 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: for her ignorance than Donald Trump has for his. When 420 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,439 Speaker 1: you are a conservative Republican woman, you challenge kind of 421 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 1: the rules of what women are supposed to be. Here again, 422 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: Mike Murphy, and pop culture is quick to wheel on 423 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 1: you as a caricature. Now, Palin, with her lack of 424 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 1: depth and gravitas, made a lot worse. But I think 425 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,640 Speaker 1: they and you know, this thing changes because Hillary got 426 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,679 Speaker 1: a fair amount of beating. But when Hillary runs for 427 00:27:54,760 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 1: president Saturday and Live is pretty soft, I mean good 428 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,879 Speaker 1: material when Palin runs, the whole turret turns and she 429 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: was ratings, she was show business, so she got in 430 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: that hot frying pan, which the campaign wanted because they 431 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,439 Speaker 1: thought she was a star, and she couldn't take it. 432 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: And the world of evaluating candidates, I think is a 433 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 1: little harsher on Republican women than Democratic women. Whether the 434 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 1: media is tougher on Republican women is up for debate, 435 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,719 Speaker 1: but what's not debatable is that the media is tougher 436 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: on women in general, especially women running for national office. 437 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: In fact, Palin and of course later Hillary Clinton got 438 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: more negative coverage than their male counterparts and a lot 439 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: more discussion about their appearance. On the other hand, the 440 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 1: McCain campaign seemed to raise the specter of sexism to 441 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 1: try to inoculate Governor Palin against criticism. Once again, here's 442 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: Jessica Yellin when she was named and when she was 443 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: headed into the convention. We hadn't had time to really 444 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: vet or know that much, but I got the calls 445 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: saying this is an able, experienced, knowledgeable, deeply engaged politician 446 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: who has a vision for the future of the country, 447 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: and any coverage that reflects otherwise as sexist and it 448 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: was almost laying down a marker. And why were they 449 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: being so defensive about her knowledge. Well, of course, as 450 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: a reporter, your antenna immediately go up, going, oh that's interesting. 451 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: What do we have to investigate here? You want women 452 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 1: in the public eye to rise or fall on their 453 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: merits and if they come under gendered sexist attack, uh, 454 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: speak up and pointed out absolutely. But in the case 455 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: of Sarah Palin, she would miss on the basics, she 456 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: would do the Kati Kirk interview and not have answers, 457 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: and then when she took heat say that it was 458 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: a sexist, it was sexist to criticize her. Do you 459 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: think coverage of Sarah Palin was sexist, Yes, in a 460 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 1: different way. How First of all, I think she was 461 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: dismissed early because of her gender. She was treated differently 462 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: because she was an attractive young female. We don't have 463 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 1: many women running for high office who are still i 464 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 1: don't know how to say this, in their sexual prime, 465 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: who haven't gone through menopause, who don't look like dowagers. 466 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: You know, if you have gray hair and you're like 467 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: a grandma, that's a lot less threatening. But when you 468 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: have a woman like Sarah Palin, who's on the cover 469 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: of Newsweek magazine wearing shorty shorts and showing her legs um. 470 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: Even though she didn't pose that for that specific cover. 471 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: You know, it's threatening in a different way because she's 472 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: both attractive and seeking, you know, a Jason's the highest 473 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: office in the land. So I think that played into 474 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 1: how she was treated. Murphy sees another difference. Trump was 475 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 1: different from Palin, and that he'd been on the Apprentice 476 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 1: for ten years, you know, in a fake boardroom built 477 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: out a cardboard and plywood, pretending to fire the second 478 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: rate celebrities who are pretending to work for him to 479 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: do product placement commercials inside the show. But the perception 480 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: was he's the can do in charge, no bs art 481 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 1: of the deal guy, and he was famous. Palin, her 482 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: hand was totally unknown until she got beamed up with 483 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 1: one speech to the convention, So she was a lot 484 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: more vulnerable, I think to media take apart, she was 485 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: a blank sheet and was defined by stupid, you know, 486 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: pretty soon in somewhat sexist ways. So Trump. Trump had 487 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: a lot more natural armor, and Trump was also more 488 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: adroit at attacking institutions. Palin had a little bit of 489 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: traditionalist in her because the rules were different then, and 490 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,239 Speaker 1: she also had a running mate who was not going 491 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: to continent that stuff at all. So she was in 492 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 1: a tougher position than Trump, I think, both in terms 493 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: of environment and what she was armed with. Meanwhile, in 494 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: the aftermath of the two thou eight campaign, Palin also 495 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: positioned herself in a new way as a victim. Here 496 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 1: again McCain adviser Steve Schmidt and Nicole Wallace. So this 497 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: is this moment in time where you know, the ability 498 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: to portray yourself as a victim of whatever, the deep state, 499 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: big media, right, all these nefarious, conspiring sources, becomes a powerful, 500 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: powerful proxy. Well, it becomes a powerful asset within the 501 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: Republican Party. That this combination of victimization and grievance, and 502 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: of course, if you turned out a Trump, right, what 503 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: Trump understands intuitively is the victims are never going to 504 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: pick another victim to be their leader. The victims want 505 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 1: to pick an avenger to be their leader. And that's 506 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: what Trump is. What changed between two thousand and eight 507 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 1: and today? Why did this grievance politics fail with Sarah 508 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: Palin but work for Donald Trump? You know, at the 509 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, Sarah Palin was never 510 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: anything more than a victim. She wasn't able to play 511 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: the role of avenger, of strongman, of toughness. And you know, 512 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: Trump was a man who found his moment um at 513 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 1: a time where there's great contempt within the Republican parties 514 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: based for its elected leaders. The forces um that sustained Trump, 515 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: you know, are of a direct lineage to the forces 516 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: that sustained George Wallace. And what's always been the constant 517 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: in the history of the country is that at moments 518 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: where there has been racial progress, there has been another 519 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: racial regression. The emancipation of the slaves and then the 520 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 1: wave of terror in the eighteen seventies with the Ku 521 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 1: Klex Klan, the heroism of African Americans in the First 522 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: World War having fought for liberty assure, and you have 523 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 1: this terrible regression in the nineteen twenties. And the reality 524 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: is after the first African American president, there has been 525 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 1: another racial regression where the forces of intolerance that have 526 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,280 Speaker 1: always been in this country, you know, have been ascending 527 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 1: an assertive um. And you you've just never had the 528 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 1: case with someone like Trump where you have a person 529 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 1: so purposely divisive, an inciter of the worst impulses has 530 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: ever gained power in the United States of America. But 531 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: thus it has happened. She was the canary in the 532 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: mind that the party had changed, and it had become 533 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 1: more animated by xenophobia, by nativism, by grievances than by 534 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 1: any single animating idea. What the party became with something 535 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: unrecognizable to I think anyone that was part of the 536 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:49,279 Speaker 1: Bush era politics of compassionate conservatism, of or even Reaganism, 537 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 1: of America as a shining city on the hill. I 538 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: think what Palin ushered in she legitimized um a really ugly, 539 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: angry underbelly of the Republican Party that's now it's done 540 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:05,840 Speaker 1: in its train. If there hadn't been a Sarah Palin, 541 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: would there be a Donald Trump? You know? I mean, 542 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:13,320 Speaker 1: I think that that constituency was there waiting to be marshaled. 543 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,840 Speaker 1: And of course we saw the Tea Party movement here again. 544 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 1: Former Obama strategist David axel Rod. To some degree, Donald 545 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 1: Trump is a reaction to Barack Obama, just as every 546 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 1: president is a reaction to the previous president, and Barack 547 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 1: Obama was a jarring cultural figure to some because he 548 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 1: was the personification of change in in a changing country. Um, 549 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 1: you know, and that that demographic change, that cultural change 550 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: was deeply, deeply concerning to the Palin Trump base. And 551 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:58,760 Speaker 1: so I look back at UH, those pale and rallies 552 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: at the end of the tooth as an aide campaign, 553 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,800 Speaker 1: and I can draw a straight line from those UH 554 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 1: to the election of Donald Trump. Donald Trump picked up 555 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,759 Speaker 1: on the kind of themes of of Palin from the 556 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:21,840 Speaker 1: sort of mining of the obvious divisions and resentments, and 557 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 1: he exploited them brilliantly. Becoming John McCain's friend is one 558 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,440 Speaker 1: of the great blessings of my life. Being asked to 559 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 1: pay tribute to him today is one of the great honors. 560 00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:57,719 Speaker 1: When John McCain died in August, many famous politicians attended 561 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 1: his funeral, from Joe Lieberman to George W. Bush. John 562 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,400 Speaker 1: was born to meet that kind of challenge, to defend 563 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:09,800 Speaker 1: and demonstrate the defining ideals of our nation, to Barack Obama. 564 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:14,840 Speaker 1: When John spoke with virtues like service and duty, it 565 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 1: didn't ring hollow, But the guest list was just as 566 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 1: notable for who wasn't on it. President Trump wasn't invited, 567 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:26,320 Speaker 1: nor was Sarah Palin. Steve Schmidt and Nicole Wallace didn't 568 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,359 Speaker 1: make the cut either, and Brian Steve Schmidt said this 569 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,600 Speaker 1: deeply saddened him. But he also told me there was 570 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:36,879 Speaker 1: really no unfinished business between them. The last thing John 571 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 1: McCain said to him was I love you, Stevie boy. 572 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 1: But apparently the fact that Stephen Nicole were brutally honest 573 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 1: about Sarah Palin's shortcomings and the drama that unfolded inside 574 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: the campaign was more straight talk than John McCain wanted. 575 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 1: Or perhaps the McCain family just wanted to put aside 576 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 1: the catastrophe of two thousand and eight and where it 577 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:03,880 Speaker 1: might have led the years since. It's probably worth noting 578 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 1: that despite it all, John McCain never said anything negative 579 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: about Sarah Palin. The only thing he did say at 580 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 1: the very end of his life was that he wished 581 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: he had picked Joe Lieberman. Do you think he would 582 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:27,560 Speaker 1: feel picking Sarah Palin was one of his biggest regrets. 583 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 1: I think it would be wrong for me to project, 584 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:36,160 Speaker 1: you know, my pretty strong feelings onto him. I think 585 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 1: he is one of the more remarkable political leaders that 586 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 1: this country has produced over the last forty years. And 587 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,400 Speaker 1: you know, no one's ever claimed infallibility here, no one's 588 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,960 Speaker 1: ever said, you know, haven't made mistakes, haven't been expedient, right, 589 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:57,160 Speaker 1: haven't you know? Oh, you guys were political. We were 590 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,200 Speaker 1: because it was a presidential campaign. You're you're trying to win. 591 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 1: I think everybody who who was involved in it, um 592 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:13,120 Speaker 1: and their heart of hearts knows, um, what a mistake 593 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 1: it was. We wanted to win an election and thought 594 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,000 Speaker 1: John McCain would be a good president and this thing 595 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:25,239 Speaker 1: went horribly, horribly, horribly wrong, and um, you know, navigating 596 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,279 Speaker 1: it over those ten weeks is you know, it was 597 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 1: something that you know, for me, I still, you know, 598 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,319 Speaker 1: feel very viscerally ten years later, and I suspect ten 599 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:41,719 Speaker 1: years from now will feel the same. She could have 600 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,600 Speaker 1: been a real force. If she had gone back to Wassilla, 601 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:49,760 Speaker 1: done her homework, had the intellectual curiosity to school herself 602 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,920 Speaker 1: on important policy issues and then come back with a vengeance, 603 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:59,799 Speaker 1: she could have been president. These are questions for her 604 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,520 Speaker 1: and that wraps up our two parts special Looking back 605 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: at the Palin Interviews ten years later. A huge thank 606 00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:21,200 Speaker 1: you to our producers reference John Dolor and Stephen Valentino. 607 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:25,080 Speaker 1: The episodes were mixed by John Dolor and Jared O'Connell, 608 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:26,959 Speaker 1: and of course thanks to the rest of the team 609 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:31,520 Speaker 1: at Stitcher. That's Johannah Palmer, Nora Richie, Casey Holford and 610 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,719 Speaker 1: Chris Bannon. Invisible Studios in l A helped out with 611 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:38,040 Speaker 1: recordings for this episode. Thanks to them as well, and 612 00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,560 Speaker 1: of course a big thank you as always to my 613 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,719 Speaker 1: assistant Beth Demas and Julia Lewis, who keeps my Instagram 614 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:49,200 Speaker 1: and Twitter accounts moving and grieving that she does. Mark 615 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 1: Phillips wrote our theme music. Katie Curriic and I are 616 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,480 Speaker 1: the show's executive producers. You'll find Katie all over social 617 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:59,399 Speaker 1: media if you search Katie Curic, especially worthwhile to check 618 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,400 Speaker 1: her out Instagram. Those stories are well, they're really something 619 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:09,040 Speaker 1: rivet I tweet from at Goldsmith b. Thanks so much 620 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 1: for listening. We'll see you or you'll hear us next week.