WEBVTT - Oppenheimer Pt. 2 PLUS Our Barbenheimer Review

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, everybody, welcome back.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, very excited to dive right into this one

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<v Speaker 2>today because I'm assuming if you're here that you heard

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<v Speaker 2>part one of our Oppenheimer's story. Be weird if you didn't,

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<v Speaker 2>you just chose to start here.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I hope. So maybe I feel a little

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<v Speaker 1>at sea.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Maybe I had an episode randomizer that picked this

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<v Speaker 2>one for you. We'll go back and listen to part

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<v Speaker 2>one first, otherwise you'll be very lost.

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<v Speaker 1>Probaly like it better that way, the flow, the flow

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<v Speaker 1>is better. Yeah, we wanted to kind of dive into

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<v Speaker 1>the women in Oppenheimer's life because we saw the movie

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<v Speaker 1>and it's great, love it, fantastic film. Definitely go see it.

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<v Speaker 1>But as anyone will point out to you, but not

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<v Speaker 1>just us, but anyone will point out to you, Christopher

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<v Speaker 1>Nolan not that great at writing women characters. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 1>I can see that he made a concerted effort to

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<v Speaker 1>include some women in this film, and I appreciate that.

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<v Speaker 1>Hats off to you, sir, But there's still a little sketter,

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<v Speaker 1>so kind of wanted to fill in a little more

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<v Speaker 1>of their personalities and the role they really played in

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<v Speaker 1>his life besides just Jean was a communist and that

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<v Speaker 1>made trouble for him, and he was a drunk and

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<v Speaker 1>that made trouble for him. Like, you know, that's not

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<v Speaker 1>enough for me. I want to know more.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a three hour movie as it is, I know,

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<v Speaker 2>and there's only so much, but it is I think

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<v Speaker 2>we have discussed it's a common problem that sure, this

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<v Speaker 2>movie doesn't have time and shouldn't have to focus on

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<v Speaker 2>the side characters. I mean, you know, like Josh Harten's

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<v Speaker 2>character doesn't get much more time either. But the problem

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<v Speaker 2>is there aren't any movies out there telling Getty's story

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<v Speaker 2>and story so and.

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<v Speaker 1>Sadly it wouldn't be that interesting of a movie, probably

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<v Speaker 1>because of the kind of limited lives that women were

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<v Speaker 1>forced to them. That's the thing that get frustrated, because

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, you wouldn't want to necessarily watch a movie

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<v Speaker 1>about the women of Los Alamos sitting around waiting to

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<v Speaker 1>not hear from their husbands what they're up to.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd watch Greta Gerwig do it.

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<v Speaker 1>I would watch Greta Gerwig. She would find a way,

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<v Speaker 1>she would find a way. But all that to say is,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I mean, it's not women's choice that they

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<v Speaker 1>have the boring part of history. You know what I'm saying, Like,

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<v Speaker 1>these ladies were trying to make their own way and

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<v Speaker 1>do cool things, and they got sidetracked by the way

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<v Speaker 1>the world was. And that's very frustrating and it makes

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<v Speaker 1>me be like, yeah, I hear you. You don't want

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<v Speaker 1>to hear a movie about it. But that's part of

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<v Speaker 1>my problem, is that you don't want a movie of

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<v Speaker 1>their lives because.

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<v Speaker 2>Of well anyway, and again, I think once we often

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<v Speaker 2>dig into that history and you unearth as much as

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<v Speaker 2>you can, you find out there was interesting stuff going on,

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<v Speaker 2>very true, and either it wasn't well recorded or it

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<v Speaker 2>just wasn't well thought of for a long time.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know what I do.

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<v Speaker 2>I want Credit Rwig to do a movie about the

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<v Speaker 2>women of Oppenheimer, and then I want Christopher Nolan to

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<v Speaker 2>do Ken spinoff, and I want to see those. Just

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<v Speaker 2>imagine they can't same weekend release date again for both

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<v Speaker 2>of them. The time the time talk about saving Hollywood.

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<v Speaker 1>Listen, but what Ken is it? Ken minto Makino, He goes.

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<v Speaker 2>Backwards there, Ken's time distortion experience.

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<v Speaker 1>He's got all these tattoos all over him. I would

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<v Speaker 1>actually buy them Memento Ken little tattoos all over him.

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<v Speaker 1>Say hi to Barbie.

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<v Speaker 2>He's got it written across his chest upside down.

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<v Speaker 1>Take a look at it.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, all right, well we are going to talk

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<v Speaker 2>about those movies, yes, But first, in the first part

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<v Speaker 2>of this episode, we're going to finish up the story

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<v Speaker 2>of uh of Robert Oppenheimer and Kitty his wife. I

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<v Speaker 2>think we get a little back in the gene again.

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<v Speaker 2>And then of course our friend Ruth Tolman so lots

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<v Speaker 2>left to tell very exciting stuff. And again, if you

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<v Speaker 2>haven't seen the movie, this I think is a little

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<v Speaker 2>more spoilery than the stuff we mentioned in part.

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<v Speaker 1>One, but it was more fun to watch it not knowing.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, but you know, see the movie. Either way,

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<v Speaker 2>I say, we just dive in and get started.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's do it. Hey their French condition, Well, Eli and

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<v Speaker 1>Diana got some stories to tell. There's no match making

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<v Speaker 1>a romantic tips. It's just about ridiculous relationship. I loove.

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<v Speaker 1>There might be any type of person at all, and

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<v Speaker 1>abstract concept or a concrete wall. But if there's a

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<v Speaker 1>story worth the second clans, we'll put it in a show.

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<v Speaker 1>Ridiculous Romance, A production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>So apparently in her drunkenness, Kitty would get a little

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<v Speaker 2>graphic about her sex life, and she made comments about

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<v Speaker 2>how she had to teach Oppenheimer about foreplay and that

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<v Speaker 2>sex could be fun. He previously was not aware, and

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<v Speaker 2>he was like, oh, I thought it was for science.

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<v Speaker 1>It's probably very mechanical. Uhh science joke maybe in his approach,

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<v Speaker 1>and she was like, hey, we could have a good

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<v Speaker 1>time with this.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh huh. You put the one in the zero that's.

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<v Speaker 1>Sex, So that works too well, honestly, go ahead.

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<v Speaker 2>So klausen Strasinski take this information to show that maybe

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<v Speaker 2>Robert's relationship with Gene Tatlock wasn't really as sexually charged

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<v Speaker 2>as we've heard it or seen it portrayed in the movie,

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<v Speaker 2>because he's just again, he's not this like passionate sexual

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<v Speaker 2>guy necessarily until Kitty got her claws in him, right well,

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<v Speaker 2>and in.

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<v Speaker 1>The film when you see Gene, they're either having sex

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<v Speaker 1>or they just had sex, right. So it's just very like,

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<v Speaker 1>if you were just to watch the film and not

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<v Speaker 1>look at any research, you might think, oh, Robert and

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<v Speaker 1>Jean were like passionate sexy sex times he and Kitty

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<v Speaker 1>were like just a good merit, like she was just

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<v Speaker 1>the right wife for him or something. But that's not

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<v Speaker 1>necessarily the case. So anyway, So.

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<v Speaker 2>And here's a little bit about just something that I

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<v Speaker 2>loved in the movie. Even Kitty's detractors, even tho all

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<v Speaker 2>the people who talked shit about Kitty, could not deny

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<v Speaker 2>that when she was called in as a witness in

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<v Speaker 2>her husband's security clearance hearing, she was his greatest defender.

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<v Speaker 2>She was total superhero, badass Mary Poppins coming in there.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, shutting it down. The Secretary, Verna Hobson said, quote,

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<v Speaker 2>so many times I've seen her pull herself together when

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<v Speaker 2>you didn't believe she possibly could. That's right, despite her

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<v Speaker 2>being drunk or on pills or whatever, depressed, whatever was

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<v Speaker 2>going on with her, when she needed to, she stood

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<v Speaker 2>up and she would kick ass.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right.

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<v Speaker 2>Probably a lot of people underestimated her for that one

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<v Speaker 2>hundred Oh she's just a drunk, she can't do nothing,

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<v Speaker 2>and then she's like a han A second, ahem. First

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<v Speaker 2>of all, let me tell you this, I.

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<v Speaker 1>Mean pretty much she talked circles.

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<v Speaker 2>Around the investigators. If you saw the movie, you saw

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<v Speaker 2>this scene and Kitty impressed all of Robert's friends.

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<v Speaker 1>With her performance, right, Like, even people who were like,

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<v Speaker 1>she's the worst possible wife for them, I see her,

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<v Speaker 1>she sucks, were like she was a tower of strength

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<v Speaker 1>during this time. She was a better witness than Robert.

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<v Speaker 1>Like they were like she was the one.

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<v Speaker 2>And years later when Oppenheimer was given his medal and

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<v Speaker 2>the government was like, oh, sorry, buddy, you know how

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<v Speaker 2>feelings right, like, I know we sued you and investigating

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<v Speaker 2>for trees and all this stuff water under the bridge across.

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<v Speaker 2>Even then, she held a damn grudge until the end.

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<v Speaker 2>She wasn't taken that bullshit apology, none of that.

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<v Speaker 1>Which makes me think of earlier when the neighbor was like,

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<v Speaker 1>she's fiercely loyal. She is like a little lion. And

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, that's exactly when she like, once she decides

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<v Speaker 1>you're on her team, she will fight yeah for you

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<v Speaker 1>until tooth and nail.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, after Oppenheimer's security clearance was revoked, their daughter Tony

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<v Speaker 2>was diagnosed with polio, so they moved to the US

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<v Speaker 2>virgin Island of Saint John. While she recovered, Robert and

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<v Speaker 2>Kitty ended up discovering a shared love of sailing. So

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<v Speaker 2>they built a beach house there and they sailed together

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<v Speaker 2>every summer. So they were like, we used to ride horses,

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<v Speaker 2>now riding boat. Yeah, they're like, whatever, I just want

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<v Speaker 2>to be on a particular, a very specialized landscape and

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<v Speaker 2>whatever thing is best suited to travel that landscape.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, I'm into it. I'm in it.

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<v Speaker 2>Then you know. And then they go to Alaska and

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<v Speaker 2>they're all on snowmobiles all the time, all right, Florida

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<v Speaker 2>and they just can't they can't get over their shared

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<v Speaker 2>love of fan boats.

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<v Speaker 1>I was just like, they're in bathing suits at the

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<v Speaker 1>grocery store. I don't know where you go with that.

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<v Speaker 2>No, No, they're in Australia. They're hopping around in kangaroo pouches.

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<v Speaker 1>Amazing. I would do that, just like I think a

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<v Speaker 1>kangaroo would immediately kick my face in.

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<v Speaker 2>I love a specialized former transportation in a particular and

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<v Speaker 2>singular landscape. That's their thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, that was their new thing. They had some lovely

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<v Speaker 1>summers together, sure, but on January sixth, nineteen sixty seven,

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<v Speaker 1>Robert Oppenheimer was diagnosed with inoperable cancer, and he died

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<v Speaker 1>a little more than a month later on February eighteenth,

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<v Speaker 1>So it did not take.

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<v Speaker 2>Long from smoking, I'll add, Yeah, he was a heavy smoker. Yes, yes, was.

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<v Speaker 2>I believe throat cancer right, think you're right.

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<v Speaker 1>I think you're right, And per his wishes, Kitty had

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<v Speaker 1>him cremated and she dropped his urn off the coast

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<v Speaker 1>of Saint John, within sight of their beach house. In

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<v Speaker 1>May of that year, their close friend Robert Serber, who

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<v Speaker 1>we've mentioned several times, his wife died by suicide, very tragically.

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<v Speaker 1>A few months after that, Robert Serber and Kitty Oppenheimer

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<v Speaker 1>were living together. So she found her another man, I guess,

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<v Speaker 1>and Kitty got him into sailing as well. In nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>seventy two, they purchased a boat and they planned to

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<v Speaker 1>sail through the Panama Canal to Japan. Wow, which sounds amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>But Kitty had an embolism and she died on October

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<v Speaker 1>twenty seventh, nineteen seventy two. Decadent Review points out in

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<v Speaker 1>Atomic Love Story they kind of wrap it up by saying, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>she found another man close to hand and married him,

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<v Speaker 1>And Decadent Reviews kind of like, that's a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>of a judgment that's being called about her. Nobody says

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<v Speaker 1>after Kitty dies, Robert Serber takes up with a student

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<v Speaker 1>like a young woman much younger than him, and Decadent

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<v Speaker 1>Review points out, nobody says, oh, Robert Serber found the

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<v Speaker 1>closest woman to hands. It has the same ye disparagement

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<v Speaker 1>of him be being a companion as thinking for her.

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<v Speaker 1>So just to keep in mind that everything we know

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<v Speaker 1>about Kitty was said in a time when a woman

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<v Speaker 1>who was very opinionated and outspoken was not a maybe

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<v Speaker 1>a well respected woman. People didn't like women like that.

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<v Speaker 1>So everything we read about her now we read it differently,

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<v Speaker 1>I think, and so it's harder to kind of jive

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<v Speaker 1>all these ideas of her together.

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<v Speaker 2>I think everyone was so conditioned to think that was

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<v Speaker 2>like abnormal behavior, like, oh, oh, she's telling people she

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't like that when you do it, that's what's wrong with.

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<v Speaker 1>Her, right, not a lady? And yeah, not quiet. It's

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<v Speaker 1>not a die away myths, you know what I mean.

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<v Speaker 2>And that also may have contributed to her being difficult

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<v Speaker 2>to like or being a brusque and mean person. You know.

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<v Speaker 2>That's that sort of builds on itself. It's a little

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<v Speaker 2>self fulfilling when you say, Oh, she's because she's opinionated.

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<v Speaker 2>She's so nasty, right, And then she's like, well, then yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I am nasty because everyone thinks I'm so opinionated and

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<v Speaker 2>they're cruel to me. So yeah, I think it's it's

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<v Speaker 2>a vicious spiral to get stuck in.

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<v Speaker 1>It is. So it just you decide you don't have

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<v Speaker 1>to like Kitty or anything like that. I'm not sure

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<v Speaker 1>I would have been friends with her, but it is

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<v Speaker 1>something that's interesting to think about, just from hindsight, how

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<v Speaker 1>we read people in their time versus now, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>kind of stuff like that. But Robert and Kitty did

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<v Speaker 1>have two children, and I was kind of curious about

0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:35.559
<v Speaker 1>the kid.

0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:35.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:41.360
<v Speaker 1>According to Nuclear Museum dot Com, Tony Oppenheimer never really

0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:45.040
<v Speaker 1>got along with her mother. She had two unsuccessful marriages,

0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:48.640
<v Speaker 1>and she was deeply depressed by her father's passing. She

0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:51.760
<v Speaker 1>was also denied a security clearance to become a translator

0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:54.040
<v Speaker 1>for the UN. Oh, and that kind of brought up

0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:57.240
<v Speaker 1>a lot of trauma from her dad's security clearance hearing

0:11:57.280 --> 0:12:01.800
<v Speaker 1>in fifty four. So she was really depress and lots

0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:04.400
<v Speaker 1>of things going wrong for her. When she died by

0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:07.920
<v Speaker 1>suicide at the beach House in Saint John in nineteen seventy.

0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:11.120
<v Speaker 2>Seven, oh Man. Now, their son, Peter Oppenheimer, did not

0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:13.959
<v Speaker 2>do well in school. He did really terribly, even though

0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:16.800
<v Speaker 2>he was very smart, but he had a lot of anxiety,

0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:19.600
<v Speaker 2>and he also got teased a lot about his dad,

0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:23.480
<v Speaker 2>especially after the security hearing. Peter once wrote on the

0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:27.040
<v Speaker 2>chalkboard in class that quote, certain people in the US

0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:31.319
<v Speaker 2>government should go to hell. He's not wrong.

0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:34.720
<v Speaker 1>Still then or now.

0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:39.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Apparently Robert Oppenheimer was told by a family friend

0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:41.680
<v Speaker 2>that he should get some psychological help for his son

0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:44.640
<v Speaker 2>for his anxiety when he was a kid. But Robert

0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:47.720
<v Speaker 2>was offended at this idea because the friend, Pat Shirr,

0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:51.720
<v Speaker 2>said that Oppenheimer quote could not have a son who

0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:55.960
<v Speaker 2>needed help. I think that's one of those masculine pride issues.

0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:59.400
<v Speaker 2>No son of mine needs psychological help. He's fine, He's

0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:01.240
<v Speaker 2>a healthy What I.

0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:04.400
<v Speaker 1>Find so fascinating about this is that Robert Oppenheimer was

0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:09.480
<v Speaker 1>really interested in psychology. Yeah, gene Caatlog worked with kids

0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:13.680
<v Speaker 1>in psychiatry. Ruth Tolman was a psychiatrist, a psychologist. He

0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:16.120
<v Speaker 1>had a lot of respect for that field. But at

0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:18.480
<v Speaker 1>this time period, of course, if you had to see

0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:21.040
<v Speaker 1>a therapist, it meant you were a crazy part like

0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:25.680
<v Speaker 1>you were beyond you were beyond crazy. Yeah, if you

0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:28.120
<v Speaker 1>needed a therapist. So it's just like a really weird

0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:32.360
<v Speaker 1>of I don't know weight to put on therapy at

0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:32.760
<v Speaker 1>that time.

0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:35.679
<v Speaker 2>He has an intellectual probably very much thought like, oh

0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.880
<v Speaker 2>that's for lesser mortals maybe, yeah, you know if you yeah,

0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:41.640
<v Speaker 2>I mean not just like you must be super crazy

0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.640
<v Speaker 2>even need a therapist. But well, we're smart, we have

0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:48.120
<v Speaker 2>control of our brains, right, because we're so well educated

0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:51.240
<v Speaker 2>and well read, like we can reason our way out

0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:53.480
<v Speaker 2>of which I know a lot of us still think.

0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:56.280
<v Speaker 2>I thinking of myself today, why can't I just think

0:13:56.360 --> 0:14:00.200
<v Speaker 2>my way out of this psychology problem? You know? And

0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:03.040
<v Speaker 2>you can us. The whole idea is that it's not

0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:07.360
<v Speaker 2>something you can you can't outsmart yourself. But I know,

0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:10.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure that Robert Oppenheimer was very much like a

0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:11.720
<v Speaker 2>mind over matter person.

0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:12.360
<v Speaker 1>True.

0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:16.040
<v Speaker 2>And if look, if you're my son, if you're a

0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:19.600
<v Speaker 2>little Robert Oppenheimer and you're having trouble with your anxiety,

0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:21.960
<v Speaker 2>here's the formula to get rid of it.

0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:26.200
<v Speaker 1>Right well, and I wonder too again, time period wise

0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:30.320
<v Speaker 1>they're still very Freudian in that all your problems are

0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:32.680
<v Speaker 1>because of your childhood and your parents. So I wonder

0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:34.720
<v Speaker 1>if how much of that was like, I'm not gonna

0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:36.720
<v Speaker 1>send my son to learn about why I was a

0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:37.320
<v Speaker 1>shitty dad.

0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:41.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, right, I already know I'm a shitty dad. I

0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:44.200
<v Speaker 2>don't need to pay you thirty thousand dollars to tell

0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:44.560
<v Speaker 2>me that.

0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:47.160
<v Speaker 1>I don't need some doctor to tell me I wasn't

0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:52.120
<v Speaker 1>involved enough for my kid's life. So probably a number

0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:54.600
<v Speaker 1>of reasons why that offended him. And but he was

0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:57.080
<v Speaker 1>definitely like uh uh.

0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:00.680
<v Speaker 2>Peter himself once said, quote, my father's true tragedy was

0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:04.160
<v Speaker 2>not that he lost his clearance, but my mother's slow

0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:07.840
<v Speaker 2>descent into alcoholism. Cut that word slow.

0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:11.720
<v Speaker 1>Now, this lends a lot of credence to the drunken.

0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:14.440
<v Speaker 1>Yes now. And I was going to say Robert Serber

0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:20.160
<v Speaker 1>throughout this book American Prometheus, you know, he said Jean Tatlock,

0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:24.440
<v Speaker 1>Robert Oppenheimer loved her the most, But of course at

0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:27.560
<v Speaker 1>the time he had already been with his wife, Kitty,

0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:29.560
<v Speaker 1>so did not make him feel better to say he

0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:32.040
<v Speaker 1>loved Gene more than Kitty. So it's okay that I'm

0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:35.440
<v Speaker 1>with Kitty. Oh, I wonder, I wonder, I don't know,

0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:38.720
<v Speaker 1>speculation station. And then I also wonder if he said, oh,

0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:41.320
<v Speaker 1>she was not drunk, she just took pills like everybody's so,

0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:44.600
<v Speaker 1>but he was with her. You know, you have feelings

0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:47.600
<v Speaker 1>for her, So he might have been trying to, you know,

0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:50.040
<v Speaker 1>do a little bit of repair on her image or

0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:54.640
<v Speaker 1>something out of love, out of affection of Kitty. But

0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:57.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, he might not be a reliable narrator for.

0:15:57.080 --> 0:15:59.640
<v Speaker 2>Who she is. Well. It could also be very similar

0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:04.480
<v Speaker 2>to his son and psychiatry, where he's like, she doesn't know,

0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.760
<v Speaker 2>she's not an alcoholic. We're better than that, right, you know,

0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:12.320
<v Speaker 2>we're superior to that sort of base human issue that's

0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:15.960
<v Speaker 2>lesser people have. She drinks a lot, but it's something

0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:18.160
<v Speaker 2>that we're smart enough to get through, right, you know,

0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:19.160
<v Speaker 2>she's fine.

0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:19.360
<v Speaker 1>She's okay.

0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:19.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:23.760
<v Speaker 1>Right. But anyway, for the fact that Peter said, yeah,

0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:26.240
<v Speaker 1>my mother had a slow descent into alcoholism. You know

0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:28.000
<v Speaker 1>what cut slow, it won't slow.

0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:28.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:33.640
<v Speaker 1>And also Tony apparently as a kid was constantly cleaning

0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:36.440
<v Speaker 1>up after her mother. She would clean up her empty

0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:39.840
<v Speaker 1>glasses and her beer bottle or whatever, and that's what

0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:42.480
<v Speaker 1>kind of caused Tony's rift with her mom was that

0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:45.160
<v Speaker 1>she started getting really upset about all that and not

0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:47.200
<v Speaker 1>liking having to do all that and have it drunk

0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:50.320
<v Speaker 1>mom or whatever. Right, So, because the kids say it,

0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:51.400
<v Speaker 1>I kind of believe.

0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:51.920
<v Speaker 2>It, Yeah, it does.

0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:53.920
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't kind of believe that she is maybe a

0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:56.760
<v Speaker 1>pretty bad alcoholm.

0:16:56.480 --> 0:17:00.200
<v Speaker 2>But you know, when it comes to Peter, mostly wording

0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:03.440
<v Speaker 2>to Nuclear Museum, he has quote been so positive about

0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:07.240
<v Speaker 2>his parents that his children are often taken aback by

0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:12.239
<v Speaker 2>media portrayals of Kittie Oppenheimer as cruel and unrelenting. So

0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:15.240
<v Speaker 2>even even you know, her grandkids are like, come on, waiting,

0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:19.160
<v Speaker 2>Dad only says the nicest things about you know, maybe

0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:24.040
<v Speaker 2>she's Yeah, right now, Peter Oppenheimer is now a carpenter

0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:29.280
<v Speaker 2>and he lives in total seclusion on Paracaliente. And so

0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:32.240
<v Speaker 2>we say, lets nobody bother him. You know, he's like

0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:33.320
<v Speaker 2>eighty something years old.

0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:34.600
<v Speaker 1>Okay, leave that man alone.

0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:35.240
<v Speaker 2>That man alone.

0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:36.560
<v Speaker 1>Hashtag protect Peter.

0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:39.480
<v Speaker 2>Yes, he's had it hard enough.

0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:43.520
<v Speaker 1>I really think so. And that's what I wonder too

0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:46.080
<v Speaker 1>for him, if he's like, all right, I have plenty

0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:50.200
<v Speaker 1>to say about my parents, but everyone already said every

0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:52.240
<v Speaker 1>bad and good thing about them. I don't need to

0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:54.840
<v Speaker 1>add to it. I'm just gonna say they were great, fantastic,

0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:56.760
<v Speaker 1>no fuck off, Like I don't want to talk to

0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:57.800
<v Speaker 1>you or anyone else.

0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:00.879
<v Speaker 2>Well for sure, for sure, I mean got to be

0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:03.000
<v Speaker 2>so tough. He was the most talked about man in

0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:07.080
<v Speaker 2>the world for a long time. Yes, Oppenheimer. And what

0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:11.400
<v Speaker 2>a what a shadow to live under, right, right, I mean,

0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:11.960
<v Speaker 2>no matter what?

0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:16.000
<v Speaker 1>And so, And it makes me sad to think that

0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:18.439
<v Speaker 1>Peter and Tony and I don't know if they were

0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:21.399
<v Speaker 1>close or not, but it seems like they lived pretty

0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:24.880
<v Speaker 1>separate lives, right, And it makes me sad to think

0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:27.280
<v Speaker 1>that the only other person in the world who could

0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:31.720
<v Speaker 1>understand what it was to be Robert Oppenheimer's kid. Yeah,

0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:34.959
<v Speaker 1>they weren't close to you know what I'm saying. Yeah,

0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:36.760
<v Speaker 1>I feel like that would bring you together, but I

0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.600
<v Speaker 1>don't know. And who knows. Again, we don't know that

0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:41.280
<v Speaker 1>much about them. They might have been fine together.

0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:44.600
<v Speaker 2>But the other thing, and I'll say we've sort of deliberately,

0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:48.040
<v Speaker 2>I think, not gotten into this conversation too much on

0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:51.280
<v Speaker 2>this show. But the other thing that can't not be

0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:54.720
<v Speaker 2>a huge part of their psychology as they become adults

0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:58.479
<v Speaker 2>and move into the world. Is knowing that their father

0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:03.919
<v Speaker 2>created the atomic bomb, you know, and shortly there and was,

0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:07.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, in some linear fashion, directly responsible for the

0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:12.400
<v Speaker 2>deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, horrific deaths and whatever.

0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:17.280
<v Speaker 2>There's a whole lot more to say about the merits

0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:21.280
<v Speaker 2>of that, the reasons for that, and of course Oppenheimer's involvement,

0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:25.000
<v Speaker 2>why he was involved, and what he felt afterwards, et cetera,

0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:26.800
<v Speaker 2>et cetera, et cetera. So much to say that we

0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:30.680
<v Speaker 2>don't need to get into today. I do recommend seeing

0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:33.720
<v Speaker 2>the movie where there's a little more, just like, I

0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:36.760
<v Speaker 2>don't know, it sort of even still leaves that to interpretation,

0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:40.880
<v Speaker 2>but I'm thinking that can't not be part of their

0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:44.199
<v Speaker 2>identity as well his kids. It has to be, Yeah,

0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:46.200
<v Speaker 2>my dad's the guy who made the nuke.

0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:51.880
<v Speaker 1>Especially after all of the photos of what happened in Japan, Yes,

0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:56.120
<v Speaker 1>and what really that weapon wrought. Yeah, after you see that,

0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:59.560
<v Speaker 1>how do you not have that connected to your father forever?

0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:02.359
<v Speaker 1>I mean, or do you I don't know, you know,

0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:04.840
<v Speaker 1>like because you know your dad is your dad. It's

0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:07.760
<v Speaker 1>a very specific character in your life, So who he

0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:10.080
<v Speaker 1>is to other people is kind of separate. You're like,

0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:11.840
<v Speaker 1>who's that guy? You know what I mean. Like I've

0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:13.760
<v Speaker 1>felt that way about my dad Sometimes I'm like, oh,

0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:15.639
<v Speaker 1>they know somebody different than I know. You know what

0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:18.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm saying, And that's just how it is. But you know,

0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:22.399
<v Speaker 1>it must be really hard to reconcile just and I

0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:24.719
<v Speaker 1>think that that was what was so great about the

0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:30.480
<v Speaker 1>movie was kind of showing how much everybody wanted him

0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:34.680
<v Speaker 1>to do this project. They wanted this, they asked him

0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:36.560
<v Speaker 1>for it, they were begging him for it, they were

0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:40.080
<v Speaker 1>pressuring him for it. But then once it happened, nobody

0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:45.119
<v Speaker 1>really wanted to take responsibility to those consequences and be

0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:49.399
<v Speaker 1>attached to that literal outcome. It really is. I don't know,

0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:51.800
<v Speaker 1>it's really hard. You could we I mean, we could

0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:54.560
<v Speaker 1>argue for hours and hours about whether or not it

0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:58.840
<v Speaker 1>was right to make it. You know, it's a very

0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:02.600
<v Speaker 1>fascinating topic and the movie will make you feel it.

0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:06.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's the truth. And speaking of the movie, mm hmmm,

0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:09.840
<v Speaker 2>I think we've said everything that we can say at

0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:13.760
<v Speaker 2>this point about Robert Oppenheimer's life and his three the

0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:18.560
<v Speaker 2>main three women that he interacted with romantically that that

0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:20.439
<v Speaker 2>really had an impact on him as a person. So

0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:23.679
<v Speaker 2>I'm very excited that we get to uncover all that.

0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:26.760
<v Speaker 1>I was so happy to do a deep dive into

0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:29.320
<v Speaker 1>all their lives. They're very fascinating women. You can see

0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:31.520
<v Speaker 1>why he was attracted to them. They were smart, and

0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:34.640
<v Speaker 1>they had a quick wit about them, and you know,

0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:37.080
<v Speaker 1>they could hold their own with Robert Oppenheimer. And I

0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:38.119
<v Speaker 1>think that says a lot.

0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:44.200
<v Speaker 2>And for all his problems, he wasn't a big piece

0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:44.520
<v Speaker 2>of shit.

0:21:44.840 --> 0:21:48.040
<v Speaker 1>No, not an overwhelming piece of shit or anything.

0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:50.240
<v Speaker 2>I mean, they're talking about the time period.

0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:52.880
<v Speaker 1>I know, Well that's I mean, there's some stories where

0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:56.040
<v Speaker 1>like he invited like a young female student over to

0:21:56.119 --> 0:21:59.440
<v Speaker 1>his house with Kitty at some point, and you know,

0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:02.560
<v Speaker 1>he's trying to entrance this girl, so he's kind of

0:22:02.560 --> 0:22:05.399
<v Speaker 1>saying cutting things about his wife. Oh so there's like

0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:08.560
<v Speaker 1>some some anecdotes like that. It's nothing so insane that

0:22:08.600 --> 0:22:11.200
<v Speaker 1>you'd be like, what a monster, you know what I mean,

0:22:11.320 --> 0:22:14.359
<v Speaker 1>But like it's just fifties husband shit, you know, like

0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:17.159
<v Speaker 1>I'm just kind of I don't know. There was a

0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:20.680
<v Speaker 1>little bit too with Robert where I still admire him

0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:23.320
<v Speaker 1>in some ways, and I like that he was attracted

0:22:23.320 --> 0:22:26.240
<v Speaker 1>to women who were very strong and smart and had

0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:28.880
<v Speaker 1>a lot of personality and character. But he's also kind

0:22:28.920 --> 0:22:30.720
<v Speaker 1>of one of those guys who's very attracted to that,

0:22:30.840 --> 0:22:32.720
<v Speaker 1>and then once he's got them, he kind of wants

0:22:32.800 --> 0:22:35.800
<v Speaker 1>to stamp out those things about them right right, because

0:22:35.800 --> 0:22:37.600
<v Speaker 1>he's like, you're supposed to do something else now that

0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:39.320
<v Speaker 1>you're married to me, or now that you're you know

0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:41.199
<v Speaker 1>what I mean. Like I'm not trying to say he's like,

0:22:41.280 --> 0:22:44.280
<v Speaker 1>don't work or something, but he just had an idea

0:22:44.280 --> 0:22:46.200
<v Speaker 1>about how it was supposed to be, and he didn't

0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:48.840
<v Speaker 1>have any problem with the way it worked. But so

0:22:48.960 --> 0:22:51.560
<v Speaker 1>these ladies are fully oppressed by their lives and he's

0:22:51.600 --> 0:22:52.640
<v Speaker 1>not really recognizing that.

0:22:52.760 --> 0:22:55.040
<v Speaker 2>We've come across that a lot in our history shows

0:22:55.080 --> 0:22:58.879
<v Speaker 2>sometimes where it's just, you know, we realize that these

0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:03.520
<v Speaker 2>people were just as much victims of the culture, Like

0:23:03.600 --> 0:23:05.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, he had it embedded in his head as

0:23:05.560 --> 0:23:07.560
<v Speaker 2>well as like, well, well, once we're married, you know,

0:23:07.680 --> 0:23:09.440
<v Speaker 2>men act a certain way, women act a certain way,

0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:13.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, And it's that same just perpetual systemic issue

0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:17.520
<v Speaker 2>that everyone's sort of born into. And I almost wish

0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:19.320
<v Speaker 2>that if if I could go back in time and

0:23:19.320 --> 0:23:22.080
<v Speaker 2>shake Robert Oppenheimer, if I could change one thing Robert

0:23:22.119 --> 0:23:26.399
<v Speaker 2>Appenheimer did, it'd be to let him understand that he

0:23:26.440 --> 0:23:30.320
<v Speaker 2>could be married to an intelligent woman who's his equal, right,

0:23:30.440 --> 0:23:33.199
<v Speaker 2>you know, That'd be the one thing I would change

0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:38.920
<v Speaker 2>about all the things in Robert Oppenheimer's life. Wow, Wow,

0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:41.960
<v Speaker 2>Like I don't want to go step in on butterflies

0:23:42.000 --> 0:23:43.960
<v Speaker 2>here so well.

0:23:43.760 --> 0:23:45.879
<v Speaker 1>And I think too, this is such an interesting like

0:23:46.080 --> 0:23:53.200
<v Speaker 1>this Berkeley enclave of like kind of rich, very intellectual,

0:23:54.119 --> 0:23:57.680
<v Speaker 1>sort of superior kind of academics that are all fucking

0:23:57.720 --> 0:24:01.159
<v Speaker 1>each other's wives. Yeah, you know, it's something very similar

0:24:01.240 --> 0:24:03.800
<v Speaker 1>to Bella Park or you know, any of these other

0:24:03.840 --> 0:24:06.080
<v Speaker 1>periods of time where it's like all these people are

0:24:06.080 --> 0:24:08.760
<v Speaker 1>together and they kind of aren't. The marriage about is

0:24:08.800 --> 0:24:13.600
<v Speaker 1>sort of you know with so it's even weirder that

0:24:13.640 --> 0:24:15.960
<v Speaker 1>it's like you maybe view marriage is like who's a

0:24:15.960 --> 0:24:18.440
<v Speaker 1>good partner for me, rather than whom I'm in love

0:24:18.440 --> 0:24:21.200
<v Speaker 1>with I'm passionate about or something. I can get that anytime,

0:24:21.720 --> 0:24:23.520
<v Speaker 1>but like who i'm as a good partner for me?

0:24:24.040 --> 0:24:25.600
<v Speaker 1>And I'm not sure you ever really picked a good

0:24:25.840 --> 0:24:29.000
<v Speaker 1>partner for him? Quote unquote, and people certainly had their

0:24:29.040 --> 0:24:31.639
<v Speaker 1>opinions about Kitty being good or bad, you know, depending

0:24:31.640 --> 0:24:32.880
<v Speaker 1>on which part of the story you're in.

0:24:33.119 --> 0:24:34.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly.

0:24:36.280 --> 0:24:38.639
<v Speaker 1>As and sometimes she was kind of, you know, a

0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:42.240
<v Speaker 1>bit of a distraction, so you know, but again it's

0:24:42.359 --> 0:24:45.440
<v Speaker 1>you can't divorce that from how they felt about living

0:24:45.480 --> 0:24:49.280
<v Speaker 1>their lives. I mean, fully, Gene committed suicide. I don't

0:24:49.280 --> 0:24:51.399
<v Speaker 1>think you had that much to do with Robert, you know,

0:24:51.440 --> 0:24:53.320
<v Speaker 1>it had a lot to do with everything else. You know,

0:24:53.520 --> 0:24:56.760
<v Speaker 1>it was or she was murdered, obviously by a children.

0:24:58.000 --> 0:24:59.680
<v Speaker 1>But I could tell it. I could see, I could

0:24:59.680 --> 0:25:02.120
<v Speaker 1>see her being if she was already that depressed, if

0:25:02.160 --> 0:25:05.560
<v Speaker 1>she was feeling that constrained, right, not that unusual. I mean,

0:25:05.680 --> 0:25:07.960
<v Speaker 1>Kitty's drinking problem probably had a lot to do with

0:25:08.000 --> 0:25:10.280
<v Speaker 1>that feeling too, which is another way to kill yourself, right,

0:25:10.480 --> 0:25:14.240
<v Speaker 1>just more slowly. I don't know. Well, Ruth's the only

0:25:14.280 --> 0:25:17.520
<v Speaker 1>one who fucking handle her shit. You got out, she did,

0:25:17.520 --> 0:25:19.120
<v Speaker 1>all right, handled.

0:25:18.760 --> 0:25:22.920
<v Speaker 2>It all right. Well, Okay, we talked about this story,

0:25:23.080 --> 0:25:25.840
<v Speaker 2>and there's more to talk about, because of course we

0:25:26.200 --> 0:25:28.680
<v Speaker 2>double featured, not on the same day, but the same weekend.

0:25:28.880 --> 0:25:33.239
<v Speaker 2>We saw Barbie and Oppenheimer now we're going to take

0:25:33.240 --> 0:25:35.720
<v Speaker 2>a little break and we're gonna come back and just

0:25:35.800 --> 0:25:37.800
<v Speaker 2>the rest of the episode, we're going to talk about

0:25:37.800 --> 0:25:40.399
<v Speaker 2>those two movies. Whenever. We'll start with Oppenheimer since we

0:25:40.480 --> 0:25:42.560
<v Speaker 2>just learned his life, and then move on to Barbie.

0:25:42.640 --> 0:25:47.159
<v Speaker 2>But we just had such a good time and I

0:25:47.160 --> 0:25:49.400
<v Speaker 2>think such an interesting time watching both that we've got

0:25:49.400 --> 0:25:49.920
<v Speaker 2>a lot to say.

0:25:50.040 --> 0:25:52.119
<v Speaker 1>I know, right, Yeah, you could talk about those movies forever.

0:25:52.280 --> 0:25:55.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so let's let's talk about those movies forever for

0:25:56.359 --> 0:26:03.439
<v Speaker 2>right after this commercial break, we'll be right back, all right,

0:26:03.480 --> 0:26:04.720
<v Speaker 2>Welcome back to the show, everybody.

0:26:04.800 --> 0:26:07.720
<v Speaker 1>You want to talk about Barbie and Oppenheimer. To the

0:26:08.320 --> 0:26:09.600
<v Speaker 1>double feature of the.

0:26:09.640 --> 0:26:12.440
<v Speaker 2>Year, the biggest double feature of the year, the two

0:26:12.520 --> 0:26:16.480
<v Speaker 2>movies that saved the box office this month. There's always

0:26:16.520 --> 0:26:19.440
<v Speaker 2>one that saves the box office every once in a while. Yeah,

0:26:19.480 --> 0:26:22.320
<v Speaker 2>but let's we saw both. We saw Barbie first, then

0:26:22.359 --> 0:26:26.879
<v Speaker 2>we saw Oppenheimer again. Seventy millimeters imax, big, huge, beautiful screen.

0:26:28.000 --> 0:26:32.280
<v Speaker 2>Since we just learned about Oppenheimer, let's start there. Okay, Okay,

0:26:32.520 --> 0:26:35.720
<v Speaker 2>first of all, I'll give you my Nolan background, because

0:26:35.720 --> 0:26:39.880
<v Speaker 2>I know a lot of people fellas especially who start

0:26:39.880 --> 0:26:43.280
<v Speaker 2>talking about Christopher Nolan movies can get a little into it,

0:26:43.840 --> 0:26:47.959
<v Speaker 2>and I love Christopher nolan movies. I really do. The

0:26:47.960 --> 0:26:53.000
<v Speaker 2>Prestige Right and Dunkirk are among two of my favorite

0:26:53.040 --> 0:26:57.960
<v Speaker 2>of his movies. They're so good. I'll say it, you

0:26:58.000 --> 0:27:01.679
<v Speaker 2>know what, I'll say it, Okay. I love Nolan's Batman

0:27:01.760 --> 0:27:08.160
<v Speaker 2>trilogy and The Dark The Dark Knight is. It's great.

0:27:08.240 --> 0:27:09.160
<v Speaker 2>It's perfectly great.

0:27:10.600 --> 0:27:13.440
<v Speaker 1>I think we just got a thousand hang on, it's

0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:14.200
<v Speaker 1>so good.

0:27:14.840 --> 0:27:18.280
<v Speaker 2>I think when you pull Heath Fledger's performance out of

0:27:18.320 --> 0:27:21.720
<v Speaker 2>it and just look at it, you know, there's a

0:27:21.760 --> 0:27:24.119
<v Speaker 2>couple of messy parts, is all I'm saying. There's some

0:27:24.119 --> 0:27:26.760
<v Speaker 2>stuff that doesn't make sense, and I think morally it's

0:27:26.760 --> 0:27:28.680
<v Speaker 2>a little ambiguous and kind of wants to have its

0:27:28.680 --> 0:27:31.760
<v Speaker 2>cake and eat it too. Personally, I think Batman Begins

0:27:31.880 --> 0:27:34.600
<v Speaker 2>is my favorite of the trilogy. It's so good. Yeah,

0:27:34.640 --> 0:27:36.280
<v Speaker 2>but we're not here to talk about Batman. We're here

0:27:36.320 --> 0:27:39.560
<v Speaker 2>to talk about Oppenheimer. It's very Nolan in terms of

0:27:39.600 --> 0:27:44.000
<v Speaker 2>its direction. It clips along. I love the way that

0:27:44.119 --> 0:27:46.840
<v Speaker 2>his scenes don't end, they just bleed right into each other.

0:27:46.960 --> 0:27:48.560
<v Speaker 2>And I think that's a big part because of the

0:27:48.640 --> 0:27:50.960
<v Speaker 2>music doesn't cut at the end of a scene, it

0:27:51.040 --> 0:27:54.359
<v Speaker 2>keeps playing right into the next one. It's almost montage.

0:27:54.960 --> 0:28:00.120
<v Speaker 2>This for a historical biopic, This movie moves fast. And

0:28:00.160 --> 0:28:02.200
<v Speaker 2>that's what I was saying earlier about the IMAX, where

0:28:02.200 --> 0:28:04.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm like it was almost too big for me to

0:28:04.880 --> 0:28:07.520
<v Speaker 2>really dial in on what was being said and the

0:28:07.560 --> 0:28:11.320
<v Speaker 2>story that was happening. That I'm so glad we saw

0:28:11.359 --> 0:28:12.960
<v Speaker 2>it there because it was beautiful, But I kind of

0:28:12.960 --> 0:28:15.040
<v Speaker 2>want to watch it on my phone at a certain point, right,

0:28:15.080 --> 0:28:19.000
<v Speaker 2>it's be like zero distractions, blinders on, like, let me

0:28:19.119 --> 0:28:21.160
<v Speaker 2>only just look at this tiny little screen and hear

0:28:21.200 --> 0:28:23.120
<v Speaker 2>what they're saying, right, yeah.

0:28:22.920 --> 0:28:24.560
<v Speaker 1>Right, which he doesn't like you to hear what they're

0:28:24.560 --> 0:28:28.680
<v Speaker 1>saying all the time given the sound mixing. Yeah, sometimes

0:28:28.680 --> 0:28:32.280
<v Speaker 1>from an own film, I will say, I was he

0:28:32.320 --> 0:28:35.159
<v Speaker 1>doesn't do biopicks. Really, is this his only a biob.

0:28:35.280 --> 0:28:37.840
<v Speaker 2>This is his? I mean, yeah, I think it's only biopic.

0:28:38.840 --> 0:28:41.560
<v Speaker 2>It's his as far as I know. Second non fiction

0:28:41.800 --> 0:28:42.600
<v Speaker 2>after Dunkirk.

0:28:43.000 --> 0:28:43.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's true.

0:28:43.800 --> 0:28:47.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, everything else has been sort of sci fi or

0:28:48.240 --> 0:28:50.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, some sort of pseudo fantasy like The Prestige

0:28:50.680 --> 0:28:52.240
<v Speaker 2>or something which is kind of sci fi too.

0:28:52.360 --> 0:28:55.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I guess I would, Yeah, well I did really

0:28:55.320 --> 0:28:58.160
<v Speaker 1>like that he did this one, particularly because of his

0:28:58.360 --> 0:29:00.400
<v Speaker 1>little weird shit. He likes to play with time lines,

0:29:00.480 --> 0:29:01.960
<v Speaker 1>yeah that, you know, he always does that in his

0:29:02.080 --> 0:29:05.200
<v Speaker 1>movies in one way or another, either it's going backwards

0:29:05.280 --> 0:29:08.040
<v Speaker 1>or whatever. And in this one, you know, he's kind

0:29:08.080 --> 0:29:12.800
<v Speaker 1>of he's showing you the security hearing, He's showing you

0:29:13.280 --> 0:29:17.400
<v Speaker 1>Lewis Strauss's confirmation hearing, right, and then also of course

0:29:17.520 --> 0:29:20.880
<v Speaker 1>the Atomic project in the forties, so you're kind of

0:29:20.920 --> 0:29:25.040
<v Speaker 1>flipping between all of these different timelines and different periods

0:29:25.040 --> 0:29:27.200
<v Speaker 1>in this man's life. And what worked about it for

0:29:27.280 --> 0:29:30.240
<v Speaker 1>me is that, you know, you're kind of starting off

0:29:30.280 --> 0:29:32.680
<v Speaker 1>at the security hearing and they're all like, well, let's

0:29:32.680 --> 0:29:35.200
<v Speaker 1>look at this piece of shit that made the atomic bomb,

0:29:35.320 --> 0:29:38.560
<v Speaker 1>Like how you know you're real, you're this communist lover,

0:29:38.680 --> 0:29:40.760
<v Speaker 1>and they're really mean to him in this security hearing.

0:29:41.680 --> 0:29:44.080
<v Speaker 1>And then the next scene or as you say, the

0:29:44.120 --> 0:29:46.200
<v Speaker 1>next kind of part of the montage that sort of

0:29:46.200 --> 0:29:48.880
<v Speaker 1>bleeds directly into the next scene, somebody going, you're the

0:29:48.960 --> 0:29:50.760
<v Speaker 1>man to do this, and you have to. You're going

0:29:50.800 --> 0:29:54.120
<v Speaker 1>to save the world. You have to defeat Nazi Germany,

0:29:54.160 --> 0:29:56.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, like they're at they are really laying on

0:29:56.840 --> 0:30:00.200
<v Speaker 1>him for this project. So it's it kind of I

0:30:00.280 --> 0:30:02.080
<v Speaker 1>think it really does a good job at putting you

0:30:02.120 --> 0:30:05.560
<v Speaker 1>in his headspace, or his I guess Christopher Nolan's idea

0:30:05.640 --> 0:30:08.000
<v Speaker 1>of what his headspace must have been, where he's like,

0:30:08.080 --> 0:30:11.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm remembering very nearby in my mind, was y'all begging

0:30:11.360 --> 0:30:13.200
<v Speaker 1>me to do this? And now you're really pissed at

0:30:13.240 --> 0:30:15.760
<v Speaker 1>me for doing it? And I can't. I am too,

0:30:16.040 --> 0:30:18.360
<v Speaker 1>you know, but like I can't. I don't know how

0:30:18.360 --> 0:30:21.240
<v Speaker 1>to respond to this, and it's very frustrating and contradictory

0:30:21.320 --> 0:30:25.200
<v Speaker 1>and very scapegoaty feeling. Yeah, which, of course it's exactly

0:30:25.200 --> 0:30:27.320
<v Speaker 1>what he was. So I think he does a really

0:30:27.360 --> 0:30:29.240
<v Speaker 1>good job of kind of putting you in that mind space,

0:30:29.280 --> 0:30:31.680
<v Speaker 1>that psychological space totally.

0:30:31.880 --> 0:30:34.320
<v Speaker 2>And I think that's kind of what the movie is

0:30:34.360 --> 0:30:37.040
<v Speaker 2>mostly all about, because again we're not I don't think

0:30:37.080 --> 0:30:39.960
<v Speaker 2>the movie is here to answer these big questions. Was

0:30:40.000 --> 0:30:42.160
<v Speaker 2>it a good idea for the bomb? Was you know,

0:30:42.280 --> 0:30:44.120
<v Speaker 2>was it the right thing to do in terms of

0:30:44.720 --> 0:30:47.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, the argument? Of course, the largest argument is

0:30:48.200 --> 0:30:51.360
<v Speaker 2>by dropping the two A bombs on Japan, we stopped

0:30:51.400 --> 0:30:55.719
<v Speaker 2>a land war that would have claimed many millions of lives. So,

0:30:56.480 --> 0:30:59.080
<v Speaker 2>but look where we are now, which of course is

0:30:59.160 --> 0:31:01.040
<v Speaker 2>kind of sort of at the end of the movie too,

0:31:02.080 --> 0:31:05.280
<v Speaker 2>what was the long term damage? Is that worth it?

0:31:05.800 --> 0:31:09.840
<v Speaker 2>But instead of trying to answer those questions, the movies

0:31:09.920 --> 0:31:12.200
<v Speaker 2>much more like, well, let's just look at this guy

0:31:12.280 --> 0:31:14.920
<v Speaker 2>and what might it have been like to be him?

0:31:15.440 --> 0:31:18.520
<v Speaker 2>What might it have been like to be the guy

0:31:18.520 --> 0:31:20.280
<v Speaker 2>who did that? How do you sit with that? How

0:31:20.320 --> 0:31:21.600
<v Speaker 2>do you live with that afterwards?

0:31:21.720 --> 0:31:21.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

0:31:22.320 --> 0:31:26.240
<v Speaker 2>And then also at the same time, like you said,

0:31:26.280 --> 0:31:28.120
<v Speaker 2>the very people who were begging you to do it

0:31:28.200 --> 0:31:30.720
<v Speaker 2>have now turned around and said, how dare you sir?

0:31:31.040 --> 0:31:32.240
<v Speaker 1>Oh could you have done that?

0:31:32.480 --> 0:31:35.600
<v Speaker 2>What a monster? You must be crazy?

0:31:35.800 --> 0:31:39.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it's fascinating to the element of security that

0:31:39.920 --> 0:31:42.719
<v Speaker 1>you're talking about a little earlier with in terms of

0:31:43.160 --> 0:31:46.880
<v Speaker 1>Russia was our ally, but everybody knew at some point

0:31:46.920 --> 0:31:48.480
<v Speaker 1>this war is going to end and they're not going

0:31:48.520 --> 0:31:51.800
<v Speaker 1>to be our ally anymore. Like there's it's not not

0:31:51.880 --> 0:31:56.360
<v Speaker 1>a question, you know, And so all of that kind

0:31:56.440 --> 0:31:59.240
<v Speaker 1>of hiding and fear from our own allies was a

0:31:59.280 --> 0:32:03.280
<v Speaker 1>real problem. Of course, you still had German scientists involved.

0:32:03.400 --> 0:32:05.760
<v Speaker 1>That was you know, literally I think he even says

0:32:05.800 --> 0:32:08.920
<v Speaker 1>in the movie anti Semitism is our best bet because

0:32:08.960 --> 0:32:11.240
<v Speaker 1>we can go get all these great German scientists that

0:32:11.320 --> 0:32:14.000
<v Speaker 1>are Jewish that are not allowed to work for Hitler.

0:32:14.080 --> 0:32:17.280
<v Speaker 1>Basically that Hitler's like, purge these guys. So he's like,

0:32:17.360 --> 0:32:19.240
<v Speaker 1>let's go get them and make them work for us.

0:32:19.520 --> 0:32:21.640
<v Speaker 2>Oppenheimer, yourself is Jewish. I don't think we mentioned that.

0:32:21.640 --> 0:32:24.479
<v Speaker 1>That's right. He is Jewish. I only was a practicing no, no,

0:32:24.480 --> 0:32:26.760
<v Speaker 1>it's very religious, but he was Jewish. But there was

0:32:26.840 --> 0:32:29.480
<v Speaker 1>still a lot of feeling that like, oh, well, it

0:32:29.480 --> 0:32:32.320
<v Speaker 1>doesn't matter if Hitler sucks, and you know he sucks,

0:32:32.320 --> 0:32:34.240
<v Speaker 1>and you're very mad right now at your home still

0:32:34.280 --> 0:32:36.320
<v Speaker 1>your home country, and there's going to be that feeling

0:32:36.400 --> 0:32:38.520
<v Speaker 1>and you want to help your home country and not me.

0:32:40.040 --> 0:32:41.360
<v Speaker 1>So I don't know, you know, there's a lot of

0:32:41.400 --> 0:32:45.360
<v Speaker 1>that kind of like again distrust, I mean, straight up restraint,

0:32:45.520 --> 0:32:48.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, amongst all relationships. He had to be really careful.

0:32:48.400 --> 0:32:52.000
<v Speaker 1>And it's kind of a foreign feeling to me because

0:32:52.000 --> 0:32:53.840
<v Speaker 1>of the big war of our time, of course, is

0:32:53.880 --> 0:32:56.120
<v Speaker 1>the War of Iraq, and you know, we could not

0:32:56.280 --> 0:32:57.920
<v Speaker 1>be more distant from that war.

0:32:58.320 --> 0:33:02.840
<v Speaker 2>There is no the propaganda of the Iraq war was

0:33:03.840 --> 0:33:06.600
<v Speaker 2>don't even worry about it, guys, guys, we got this

0:33:06.680 --> 0:33:09.440
<v Speaker 2>over here. You know, support the troops, uh huh, put

0:33:09.440 --> 0:33:13.520
<v Speaker 2>the yellow ribbon on your car, buy stuff and yeah,

0:33:13.560 --> 0:33:15.720
<v Speaker 2>and that's and that's all you need to do, and

0:33:15.760 --> 0:33:19.480
<v Speaker 2>not this the World War two right mentality of we're

0:33:19.520 --> 0:33:23.120
<v Speaker 2>all in this together sacrifice. You know you're gonna feel

0:33:23.120 --> 0:33:25.479
<v Speaker 2>it at home when we go off to war and

0:33:25.760 --> 0:33:29.360
<v Speaker 2>you dealing with that is you supporting your country? Right?

0:33:29.560 --> 0:33:30.800
<v Speaker 2>So different or even.

0:33:30.720 --> 0:33:33.200
<v Speaker 1>The sense of even you know, you're in the middle

0:33:33.200 --> 0:33:35.040
<v Speaker 1>of no, I don't know, you live in a small

0:33:35.040 --> 0:33:37.280
<v Speaker 1>town in Maryland or something, but people are still like

0:33:37.320 --> 0:33:39.880
<v Speaker 1>loose lips sink ships. Like you can't be talking about

0:33:39.880 --> 0:33:41.720
<v Speaker 1>stuff you hear on the news, right because you don't

0:33:41.760 --> 0:33:43.440
<v Speaker 1>know who you're talking to and who they're going to

0:33:43.480 --> 0:33:45.440
<v Speaker 1>tell and what they're going to say. And it was

0:33:45.480 --> 0:33:48.240
<v Speaker 1>just a lot of this like fear of spies listening.

0:33:48.320 --> 0:33:51.160
<v Speaker 1>And you know, it's just such a I had a hero,

0:33:51.800 --> 0:33:53.400
<v Speaker 1>I guess because we already had computers and they're like

0:33:53.400 --> 0:33:58.320
<v Speaker 1>everybody everything, I don't have to tap your phone or whatever.

0:33:58.360 --> 0:34:01.480
<v Speaker 1>You're telling me everything through like there whatever. But anyway,

0:34:01.520 --> 0:34:03.000
<v Speaker 1>it's just so weird to think about. It was such

0:34:03.000 --> 0:34:06.880
<v Speaker 1>a different paranoid such a paranoid time, and you get

0:34:06.880 --> 0:34:09.160
<v Speaker 1>caught up in that shit and it changes your behavior

0:34:09.200 --> 0:34:09.520
<v Speaker 1>a lot.

0:34:09.719 --> 0:34:11.360
<v Speaker 2>That was one of the things that was most interesting

0:34:11.400 --> 0:34:15.680
<v Speaker 2>about it to me. You know, I as the movie's

0:34:15.760 --> 0:34:18.399
<v Speaker 2>coming closer to coming out, all these little YouTube videos

0:34:18.440 --> 0:34:20.520
<v Speaker 2>are popping up. Is like the life of Robert Oppenheimer.

0:34:20.560 --> 0:34:22.759
<v Speaker 2>Here's why Oppenheimer's interesting, Here's what you need to know.

0:34:23.000 --> 0:34:27.200
<v Speaker 2>And I literally knew practically nothing about him and wanted

0:34:27.239 --> 0:34:29.200
<v Speaker 2>to go into the movie with that. Yeah, it was

0:34:29.239 --> 0:34:31.440
<v Speaker 2>like the movie I want to be totally surprised by

0:34:31.480 --> 0:34:34.680
<v Speaker 2>everything that happens here, and I was, and maybe had

0:34:34.719 --> 0:34:36.960
<v Speaker 2>hard time following some parts of it where I just

0:34:37.000 --> 0:34:41.000
<v Speaker 2>had to double back on the conversations. But it was

0:34:41.080 --> 0:34:45.000
<v Speaker 2>so interesting to see that paranoia and how it affected everyone,

0:34:45.080 --> 0:34:48.480
<v Speaker 2>and the eggshells everybody's on all the time, and the

0:34:48.760 --> 0:34:53.000
<v Speaker 2>challenges of not just you know, a they've got these

0:34:53.040 --> 0:34:55.640
<v Speaker 2>time limits, which I also didn't know either. We're it

0:34:55.719 --> 0:34:59.120
<v Speaker 2>was like the space race, like Russia's actually further ahead.

0:34:59.200 --> 0:35:02.000
<v Speaker 2>They've done things we haven't done yet, and we're going

0:35:02.080 --> 0:35:04.200
<v Speaker 2>to watch that and copy it and try and leapfrog

0:35:04.719 --> 0:35:07.360
<v Speaker 2>what their work that that's exactly what happened with the

0:35:07.360 --> 0:35:10.200
<v Speaker 2>space race. Russia was in space first, yeah, and we

0:35:10.320 --> 0:35:13.640
<v Speaker 2>leapfrog that to get to the moon. So that was

0:35:13.680 --> 0:35:15.680
<v Speaker 2>really fascinating to me. But then on top of that,

0:35:17.719 --> 0:35:21.040
<v Speaker 2>just the fact that while you're under this immense pressure,

0:35:21.120 --> 0:35:23.360
<v Speaker 2>you can't talk to anyone, you can't call your friends,

0:35:23.480 --> 0:35:26.200
<v Speaker 2>you can't even you have to live in our fake

0:35:26.239 --> 0:35:30.480
<v Speaker 2>little town we built. Just a nightmare I think to

0:35:30.600 --> 0:35:31.600
<v Speaker 2>be living in that time.

0:35:31.760 --> 0:35:34.399
<v Speaker 1>Well, and like when we see this in the movie,

0:35:34.440 --> 0:35:37.000
<v Speaker 1>a lot of complaints amongst the scientists who feel that

0:35:37.080 --> 0:35:40.000
<v Speaker 1>knowledge is global and they shouldn't have to hide their

0:35:40.040 --> 0:35:43.919
<v Speaker 1>discoveries from their Russian or German or Swiss.

0:35:43.640 --> 0:35:46.080
<v Speaker 2>Or whatever exactly.

0:35:46.400 --> 0:35:49.719
<v Speaker 1>Personally, respect this person I ranged from them. I used

0:35:49.719 --> 0:35:52.640
<v Speaker 1>their equations in my shit or whatever, and so they

0:35:52.640 --> 0:35:54.959
<v Speaker 1>felt very strongly that like you should be I should

0:35:55.000 --> 0:35:59.560
<v Speaker 1>be able to share these things. And in addition to that,

0:36:00.080 --> 0:36:03.719
<v Speaker 1>they're not sharing with me. So I'm behind maybe what

0:36:03.840 --> 0:36:06.360
<v Speaker 1>they know, and that's putting me at a disadvantage of

0:36:06.360 --> 0:36:09.680
<v Speaker 1>my science, just pure science. I'm angry that I'm not

0:36:10.000 --> 0:36:13.360
<v Speaker 1>able to get the resources that I'm out there and

0:36:13.480 --> 0:36:16.440
<v Speaker 1>exchange these thoughts with these other brilliant people where I

0:36:16.600 --> 0:36:19.920
<v Speaker 1>know in these discussions we're both gonna see things or

0:36:19.920 --> 0:36:21.440
<v Speaker 1>come up with things that we wouldn't have come up

0:36:21.480 --> 0:36:22.040
<v Speaker 1>with on our own.

0:36:22.120 --> 0:36:22.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally.

0:36:22.719 --> 0:36:24.759
<v Speaker 1>So it's like slowing me down. I feel really frustrated,

0:36:25.560 --> 0:36:26.799
<v Speaker 1>you know. But it was also a bit of a

0:36:26.880 --> 0:36:32.880
<v Speaker 1>hint when scientific community stopped sharing nuclear information. It was

0:36:32.920 --> 0:36:36.719
<v Speaker 1>a hint to every security department worldwide that oh, they're

0:36:36.719 --> 0:36:39.239
<v Speaker 1>working on a bomb. They're stopped sharing. Now I know

0:36:39.280 --> 0:36:41.440
<v Speaker 1>they're working on that shit. Ye, Like it was a clue,

0:36:41.600 --> 0:36:43.000
<v Speaker 1>so you had to be really careful.

0:36:43.239 --> 0:36:45.359
<v Speaker 2>Oh if we ever come back from that, I mean,

0:36:45.800 --> 0:36:48.280
<v Speaker 2>international community, I don't know what it was like before,

0:36:49.000 --> 0:36:50.799
<v Speaker 2>but it still feels like the same thing now, Like, no,

0:36:51.080 --> 0:36:53.440
<v Speaker 2>you can't trust anybody or sharing anything with anyone else.

0:36:53.600 --> 0:36:55.160
<v Speaker 2>I know, we're all just people trying to live on

0:36:55.160 --> 0:37:00.400
<v Speaker 2>this stupid spinning marbled together. But that person slightly different

0:37:00.440 --> 0:37:04.400
<v Speaker 2>than me, so you know that means they're gonna stab

0:37:04.400 --> 0:37:06.440
<v Speaker 2>me in the back the first chance they get. Is

0:37:06.520 --> 0:37:08.759
<v Speaker 2>wild that kind of distrust, and you see that in

0:37:08.760 --> 0:37:11.240
<v Speaker 2>the movie as well. Yeah, I was also really fascinated

0:37:11.239 --> 0:37:13.840
<v Speaker 2>by that that there was people saying, like you said,

0:37:14.480 --> 0:37:18.120
<v Speaker 2>we've got to share information with each other. In fact,

0:37:18.160 --> 0:37:20.120
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people, of course, thought the whole point

0:37:20.160 --> 0:37:23.120
<v Speaker 2>of the A bomb is once they know we've built it,

0:37:23.239 --> 0:37:28.360
<v Speaker 2>they'll stop. There's no more war because who would get involved.

0:37:28.960 --> 0:37:31.399
<v Speaker 2>Was I'm not even gonna build one once you have one,

0:37:31.840 --> 0:37:35.080
<v Speaker 2>which is obviously a little arrogant to think, and of

0:37:35.080 --> 0:37:38.360
<v Speaker 2>course has time and again proven untrue. There's what doctor

0:37:38.360 --> 0:37:42.080
<v Speaker 2>Seus's butter battle book, right, there is no weapon big

0:37:42.200 --> 0:37:45.680
<v Speaker 2>enough to stop everyone from using weapons.

0:37:45.480 --> 0:37:48.120
<v Speaker 1>Right, or decide we don't want one of our own. Yeah,

0:37:48.200 --> 0:37:50.880
<v Speaker 1>you shouldn't get to press that button that destroys everything.

0:37:51.080 --> 0:37:52.320
<v Speaker 1>I get to press that button.

0:37:52.680 --> 0:37:56.080
<v Speaker 2>Yep, you know it's a pain in the ass. I

0:37:56.080 --> 0:37:59.800
<v Speaker 2>would love to talk about performances in this movie because

0:37:59.840 --> 0:38:03.120
<v Speaker 2>I think at the center of it all is the

0:38:03.200 --> 0:38:09.600
<v Speaker 2>cast and and you know what, I'll say it also,

0:38:09.800 --> 0:38:13.400
<v Speaker 2>I'll say this, I was a fan of Killian Murphy

0:38:13.440 --> 0:38:16.320
<v Speaker 2>before it was cool. Oh look, I'm.

0:38:16.120 --> 0:38:18.200
<v Speaker 1>Just saying, taste maker Eli in.

0:38:18.200 --> 0:38:21.640
<v Speaker 2>The House twenty eight days later comes out, Right, there's

0:38:21.640 --> 0:38:23.520
<v Speaker 2>gonna be people out there who like, yeah, he was

0:38:23.560 --> 0:38:26.279
<v Speaker 2>in stuff before that, you lose her. But twenty of

0:38:26.320 --> 0:38:28.680
<v Speaker 2>days later came out. I was obsessed with that movie.

0:38:28.840 --> 0:38:33.520
<v Speaker 2>I was like, I'm not into zombie movies, even though

0:38:33.520 --> 0:38:38.040
<v Speaker 2>twenty eight Days Later is not a zombie movie. Also, yeah,

0:38:38.080 --> 0:38:40.920
<v Speaker 2>because they don't die. It's not about resor, it's not

0:38:40.960 --> 0:38:44.319
<v Speaker 2>about the living dead. In twenty eight Days Later, it's

0:38:44.360 --> 0:38:48.480
<v Speaker 2>just a rage virus. Oh yeah, so technically if I

0:38:48.520 --> 0:38:50.680
<v Speaker 2>push my glasses up on my nose here, it's not

0:38:50.719 --> 0:38:53.719
<v Speaker 2>a zombie movie. But anyway, I was like, this guy

0:38:54.120 --> 0:38:57.400
<v Speaker 2>is amazing and I want to watch everything that he's in. Yeah,

0:38:57.440 --> 0:39:00.080
<v Speaker 2>And at the time, I was like, uh, have you

0:39:00.080 --> 0:39:02.880
<v Speaker 2>guys heard of silly and Murphy because he's so cool,

0:39:02.880 --> 0:39:05.319
<v Speaker 2>and then learned, like five years later, that's pronounced Killian but.

0:39:07.200 --> 0:39:09.320
<v Speaker 1>Silly old Murphy, silly old Murphy.

0:39:10.160 --> 0:39:12.760
<v Speaker 2>Here's a little facto weight for you. All that blew

0:39:12.840 --> 0:39:16.879
<v Speaker 2>my damn mind. Even as a Killian Murphy fan, Robert

0:39:16.880 --> 0:39:22.480
<v Speaker 2>Oppenheimer was tall. Yeah, I have always thought that Killian

0:39:22.560 --> 0:39:27.400
<v Speaker 2>Murphy was tall and slim. That man is five foot seven,

0:39:28.280 --> 0:39:30.279
<v Speaker 2>and there's nothing wrong with that. But he has a

0:39:30.400 --> 0:39:33.760
<v Speaker 2>very towering presence and he's actually shorter than my short

0:39:33.800 --> 0:39:40.080
<v Speaker 2>ass nine so short King Killian Murphy, kill Murphy. Yeah, incredible,

0:39:40.160 --> 0:39:42.959
<v Speaker 2>that's probably the most mind blowing. That's probably the most

0:39:42.960 --> 0:39:45.480
<v Speaker 2>explosive piece of information that I got out of.

0:39:45.480 --> 0:39:49.440
<v Speaker 1>Oppenheimer, the most important thing I learned.

0:39:49.640 --> 0:39:51.560
<v Speaker 2>Because there's times where they shoot it. We talked about this.

0:39:51.600 --> 0:39:53.480
<v Speaker 2>There's times where they shoot it and he looks like

0:39:53.520 --> 0:39:55.440
<v Speaker 2>the tallest guy in the room, and there's times where

0:39:55.480 --> 0:39:57.400
<v Speaker 2>they shoot it and he looks like everyone is like

0:39:57.480 --> 0:40:00.000
<v Speaker 2>imposing on him and he's surrounded by giants.

0:40:00.040 --> 0:40:03.759
<v Speaker 1>Beautifully done, so good, because you it's again, it's so much.

0:40:03.840 --> 0:40:05.960
<v Speaker 1>I think really he was really trying to put us

0:40:06.000 --> 0:40:09.359
<v Speaker 1>in his brain, his perspective. It's not meant to be

0:40:10.440 --> 0:40:14.200
<v Speaker 1>an overarching perspective of nuclear whatever, whatever. It's literally this

0:40:14.239 --> 0:40:16.640
<v Speaker 1>guy and what he thought and felt during the time

0:40:17.160 --> 0:40:20.320
<v Speaker 1>and these various times in his life. And I thought

0:40:20.600 --> 0:40:23.120
<v Speaker 1>that that camera work worked beautifully for that, because when

0:40:23.120 --> 0:40:25.279
<v Speaker 1>he felt confident, he was the biggest guy in the room,

0:40:25.360 --> 0:40:26.920
<v Speaker 1>and when he felt like he was getting piled on,

0:40:27.040 --> 0:40:31.120
<v Speaker 1>he was the smallest. It was beautifully beautifully shown in

0:40:31.160 --> 0:40:34.160
<v Speaker 1>that way. And I will say I thought Killian Murphy

0:40:34.200 --> 0:40:36.440
<v Speaker 1>and Christopher Nolan did something that's very hard to do

0:40:36.520 --> 0:40:39.759
<v Speaker 1>with a biopic in that they did not make him

0:40:39.800 --> 0:40:43.960
<v Speaker 1>a hero or a villain. Yeah, I really, I think

0:40:44.000 --> 0:40:46.240
<v Speaker 1>that's so hard to do. If Usually with a biopick,

0:40:46.320 --> 0:40:48.200
<v Speaker 1>you kind of pick a side and you're like, I've

0:40:48.200 --> 0:40:50.840
<v Speaker 1>decided that this person's the protagonist, so anyway they're the

0:40:50.880 --> 0:40:53.160
<v Speaker 1>hero and everything they did was right and fine and whatever,

0:40:53.520 --> 0:40:55.520
<v Speaker 1>and like you might have feelings, but anyway, in this

0:40:55.560 --> 0:40:57.439
<v Speaker 1>movie they were right to do it, and it's all great.

0:40:57.840 --> 0:41:00.839
<v Speaker 1>But in this case, I really I think they left it.

0:41:03.360 --> 0:41:05.680
<v Speaker 1>I think they both felt ambivalent about it in a way,

0:41:05.840 --> 0:41:07.560
<v Speaker 1>and they were like, this was just a human guy

0:41:08.120 --> 0:41:10.480
<v Speaker 1>who was in the middle of history and happened to

0:41:10.480 --> 0:41:13.799
<v Speaker 1>be the finger of destiny was placed on him. Like

0:41:14.640 --> 0:41:16.759
<v Speaker 1>it didn't have to be him. It was weird that

0:41:16.840 --> 0:41:20.440
<v Speaker 1>it was him. People were like General Groves chose probably

0:41:20.440 --> 0:41:22.239
<v Speaker 1>the worst guy in the world for it because they

0:41:22.239 --> 0:41:24.160
<v Speaker 1>had all these communist ties and he was a lefty

0:41:24.320 --> 0:41:26.840
<v Speaker 1>and he you know, like he wasn't the most brilliant

0:41:26.920 --> 0:41:28.480
<v Speaker 1>nuclear scientist there was.

0:41:28.320 --> 0:41:29.040
<v Speaker 2>Good at maths.

0:41:29.320 --> 0:41:31.640
<v Speaker 1>He's terrible at math, he was bad at lab. He's

0:41:31.680 --> 0:41:32.240
<v Speaker 1>a theorist.

0:41:32.280 --> 0:41:32.880
<v Speaker 2>He's a theorist.

0:41:33.000 --> 0:41:35.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and so a lot of people were like, that's

0:41:35.000 --> 0:41:37.120
<v Speaker 1>a weird choice. But as you said, he was like

0:41:37.160 --> 0:41:39.680
<v Speaker 1>this guy's magnetic. People are going to follow him, and

0:41:39.680 --> 0:41:42.880
<v Speaker 1>that's what I need. And in the movie, Oppenheimer says,

0:41:42.920 --> 0:41:45.440
<v Speaker 1>I think you chose me because of my lefty association,

0:41:45.560 --> 0:41:48.000
<v Speaker 1>so you can control me. And I don't think he

0:41:48.040 --> 0:41:50.520
<v Speaker 1>was wrong about that either. I'm sure he saw it

0:41:50.560 --> 0:41:54.520
<v Speaker 1>as leverage right times. But anyway, I thought they both

0:41:54.560 --> 0:41:56.839
<v Speaker 1>did that really well in the writing and the performance

0:41:57.000 --> 0:41:59.520
<v Speaker 1>of kind of being like, this is a complicated individual.

0:41:59.560 --> 0:42:01.879
<v Speaker 1>He's not always right and he's not always wrong. He's

0:42:01.920 --> 0:42:03.719
<v Speaker 1>not a villain and he's not a hero. He was

0:42:03.760 --> 0:42:06.839
<v Speaker 1>a guy. You know, he's just a guy. And I

0:42:06.840 --> 0:42:07.799
<v Speaker 1>think that's really hard to do.

0:42:07.920 --> 0:42:09.719
<v Speaker 2>That's so interesting by that, Yeah, that you say that.

0:42:09.800 --> 0:42:13.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm thinking about actors often who play, you know, wicked

0:42:13.400 --> 0:42:15.640
<v Speaker 2>characters in some way, shape or form. And the thing

0:42:15.680 --> 0:42:17.839
<v Speaker 2>you say is, well, I can't think they're evil. I

0:42:17.920 --> 0:42:21.600
<v Speaker 2>have to think that. I have to think like they do,

0:42:21.760 --> 0:42:26.480
<v Speaker 2>that my behavior is justified and I take these actions

0:42:26.640 --> 0:42:29.600
<v Speaker 2>because I think they're right. So I have to think

0:42:29.640 --> 0:42:31.840
<v Speaker 2>of myself as the hero or the good guy or something.

0:42:32.280 --> 0:42:35.160
<v Speaker 2>But this is Killian Murphy is playing a guy who

0:42:35.200 --> 0:42:39.240
<v Speaker 2>literally is questioning his own morals. Yes, am I a villain?

0:42:39.440 --> 0:42:41.600
<v Speaker 2>Am I a horrible person? Or am I or did

0:42:41.600 --> 0:42:43.879
<v Speaker 2>I do the right thing? I'm literally hearing it from

0:42:43.880 --> 0:42:46.839
<v Speaker 2>all sides, and I don't know myself. So I think

0:42:46.880 --> 0:42:48.680
<v Speaker 2>that's where that comes from in this movie, where it

0:42:48.760 --> 0:42:52.040
<v Speaker 2>is able to balance that so well, is probably both

0:42:52.040 --> 0:42:55.000
<v Speaker 2>of them not approaching this character as someone who thinks

0:42:55.040 --> 0:42:56.719
<v Speaker 2>he's doing the right thing, but quite the opposite of

0:42:56.719 --> 0:42:59.600
<v Speaker 2>a character who has absolutely no idea if he's done

0:42:59.600 --> 0:43:00.759
<v Speaker 2>the right thing or not right.

0:43:01.320 --> 0:43:07.000
<v Speaker 1>And also beautifully shot was his congratulations everyone, it works

0:43:07.160 --> 0:43:09.560
<v Speaker 1>and we dropped the bomb and it worked, and he

0:43:09.600 --> 0:43:11.880
<v Speaker 1>had to give this speech and I thought that was

0:43:12.280 --> 0:43:14.960
<v Speaker 1>really well done because he had such a and of

0:43:15.000 --> 0:43:17.440
<v Speaker 1>course he had his own personal like, fuck, I didn't

0:43:17.760 --> 0:43:19.479
<v Speaker 1>didn't know it was going to kill this many people.

0:43:19.520 --> 0:43:24.040
<v Speaker 1>I didn't realize, you know, exactly the weight or the destruction,

0:43:24.360 --> 0:43:26.359
<v Speaker 1>the destructive power it would have. I knew it would

0:43:26.360 --> 0:43:28.040
<v Speaker 1>be big, but more people than I thought.

0:43:28.040 --> 0:43:28.320
<v Speaker 2>Whatever.

0:43:29.440 --> 0:43:31.960
<v Speaker 1>Also, he's looking at people who spent years with him

0:43:32.520 --> 0:43:36.480
<v Speaker 1>building this bomb, and they're proud of their achievement and

0:43:36.520 --> 0:43:39.880
<v Speaker 1>they should be proud of it, and he is proud

0:43:39.880 --> 0:43:41.480
<v Speaker 1>of it, and he's like, I just wish we could

0:43:41.480 --> 0:43:43.160
<v Speaker 1>have dropped it on the Nazis, because that's who the

0:43:43.200 --> 0:43:44.680
<v Speaker 1>fuck I was working against. I didn't gonna give a

0:43:44.680 --> 0:43:47.400
<v Speaker 1>shit about Japan, you know, so anyway, it was just

0:43:47.480 --> 0:43:49.759
<v Speaker 1>really well done to show him kind of being like

0:43:50.200 --> 0:43:54.160
<v Speaker 1>jovial and excited and his performance like great job. Everybody

0:43:54.440 --> 0:43:56.360
<v Speaker 1>did it, like ooh, patch yourself on the bag. We

0:43:56.600 --> 0:43:58.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, it's not just about me, it's about you.

0:43:58.160 --> 0:44:01.839
<v Speaker 1>Everybody's so great whatever. And in his mind he is

0:44:03.280 --> 0:44:07.360
<v Speaker 1>freaking out like he is he is seeing the effects

0:44:07.400 --> 0:44:11.200
<v Speaker 1>of this bomb and and like not knowing, am I

0:44:11.239 --> 0:44:11.719
<v Speaker 1>proud of this?

0:44:12.360 --> 0:44:12.959
<v Speaker 2>Is this good?

0:44:13.000 --> 0:44:14.160
<v Speaker 1>I don't know anymore?

0:44:14.280 --> 0:44:18.160
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I think that it's I want to

0:44:18.160 --> 0:44:20.359
<v Speaker 2>get back to performances. But just you saying that makes

0:44:20.360 --> 0:44:24.080
<v Speaker 2>me think about this element of the movie of we

0:44:24.120 --> 0:44:26.640
<v Speaker 2>should I wish we'd dropped it on the Nazis. Yeah, right,

0:44:27.200 --> 0:44:31.720
<v Speaker 2>I think very deliberately in this movie, the word Japan

0:44:33.200 --> 0:44:37.920
<v Speaker 2>never comes up once until they say it's the target

0:44:37.920 --> 0:44:41.440
<v Speaker 2>for the bomb. And I think that must have been

0:44:41.520 --> 0:44:44.240
<v Speaker 2>so true of the mentality at the time, like, wait, Japan,

0:44:44.360 --> 0:44:46.399
<v Speaker 2>what I thought the whole thing was the Nazis. That's

0:44:46.440 --> 0:44:48.319
<v Speaker 2>kind of what we've been thinking on. But I think

0:44:48.360 --> 0:44:51.400
<v Speaker 2>that the scientists, Themselve Oppenheimer himself and all his team.

0:44:52.040 --> 0:44:58.480
<v Speaker 2>At this point, they're so seduced by their own creation,

0:44:58.800 --> 0:45:01.080
<v Speaker 2>right that they that they you get this to this

0:45:01.160 --> 0:45:02.960
<v Speaker 2>point where you're like, I just have to see if

0:45:02.960 --> 0:45:04.759
<v Speaker 2>I did it. I just have to know if we

0:45:04.960 --> 0:45:07.719
<v Speaker 2>succeeded and if it works, and I just have I

0:45:07.840 --> 0:45:10.360
<v Speaker 2>built the toy, now I have to use it, right

0:45:11.160 --> 0:45:17.120
<v Speaker 2>And so even they are in the moment excited about like,

0:45:17.160 --> 0:45:21.000
<v Speaker 2>we'll just drop it somewhere, and so the US has

0:45:21.080 --> 0:45:23.600
<v Speaker 2>And again there's a whole lot of history here to

0:45:23.680 --> 0:45:27.880
<v Speaker 2>unpack in terms of would Japan. A lot of a

0:45:27.880 --> 0:45:30.200
<v Speaker 2>lot of strategists say Japan never would have surrendered.

0:45:30.840 --> 0:45:33.560
<v Speaker 1>I also heard that they sued for peace before.

0:45:33.560 --> 0:45:37.640
<v Speaker 2>This dropped exactly obviously a big part of the movie too,

0:45:37.719 --> 0:45:41.640
<v Speaker 2>But but they so badly wanted to use it because

0:45:41.680 --> 0:45:45.600
<v Speaker 2>they could. And so this idea of Japan not even

0:45:45.600 --> 0:45:50.640
<v Speaker 2>coming up until they're at target, I think really speaks

0:45:50.680 --> 0:45:53.359
<v Speaker 2>to I sort of said this, but the mentality at

0:45:53.360 --> 0:46:00.800
<v Speaker 2>the time of just oh crap, the Nazis are surrendering. Well,

0:46:00.680 --> 0:46:03.040
<v Speaker 2>we got to do this somewhere, we got to show

0:46:03.040 --> 0:46:05.399
<v Speaker 2>the world, we got to show Russia was a big

0:46:05.440 --> 0:46:08.799
<v Speaker 2>part of it what we can do, And they said,

0:46:09.120 --> 0:46:11.680
<v Speaker 2>the first bomb is to show them we can do it.

0:46:11.760 --> 0:46:14.080
<v Speaker 2>The second bomb is to show them that we can

0:46:14.200 --> 0:46:17.120
<v Speaker 2>keep doing it. Horrible, horrible, And.

0:46:17.080 --> 0:46:18.880
<v Speaker 1>I guess they didn't really know the effects that the

0:46:19.000 --> 0:46:22.880
<v Speaker 1>radiation would have, the extra deaths that happened from the radiation,

0:46:23.600 --> 0:46:24.399
<v Speaker 1>or maybe they did.

0:46:24.680 --> 0:46:27.279
<v Speaker 2>Well, we had kitties studying the effects of radiation on

0:46:27.360 --> 0:46:30.040
<v Speaker 2>the blood, and I know that there were there was

0:46:30.680 --> 0:46:34.239
<v Speaker 2>an understanding that radiation was deadly afterwards too, but I

0:46:34.280 --> 0:46:36.759
<v Speaker 2>don't know. And I mean what they were how many

0:46:36.760 --> 0:46:38.360
<v Speaker 2>miles away from the test site.

0:46:39.120 --> 0:46:41.440
<v Speaker 1>Oppenheimer and the scientists were twenty.

0:46:41.160 --> 0:46:43.640
<v Speaker 2>Miles twenty miles away. They knew there was not just

0:46:43.719 --> 0:46:46.879
<v Speaker 2>the blast to worry about, but fallow up other shit.

0:46:47.040 --> 0:46:51.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yes, very true. And we'll throw out there that

0:46:52.040 --> 0:46:56.200
<v Speaker 1>there are a lot of indigenous and people of Native

0:46:56.400 --> 0:47:00.920
<v Speaker 1>of New Mexico who are called down windows downwind of

0:47:00.960 --> 0:47:05.279
<v Speaker 1>the Trinity Test and have radiation poisoning from it, and

0:47:05.320 --> 0:47:08.399
<v Speaker 1>they have not been recompensed by the government in any way.

0:47:08.440 --> 0:47:11.520
<v Speaker 1>So they have still to this day within their community,

0:47:11.680 --> 0:47:16.120
<v Speaker 1>birth defects, all kinds of crazy shit from Trinity test itself.

0:47:16.200 --> 0:47:20.479
<v Speaker 1>So there's not only in Japan was their fallout from

0:47:21.280 --> 0:47:26.920
<v Speaker 1>Robert Oppenheimer's and his team's invention, but also right here

0:47:26.920 --> 0:47:29.640
<v Speaker 1>in America and people are still trying to get justice

0:47:29.680 --> 0:47:29.880
<v Speaker 1>for that.

0:47:30.160 --> 0:47:34.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and again, the movie does not go into this thing,

0:47:35.000 --> 0:47:36.960
<v Speaker 2>much like it doesn't go to the women of his life.

0:47:37.040 --> 0:47:40.240
<v Speaker 2>And there's a degree to which I forgive the movie

0:47:40.239 --> 0:47:43.799
<v Speaker 2>for that, because it is a singularly focused story. And

0:47:44.280 --> 0:47:47.399
<v Speaker 2>I don't want Christopher Nolan to be the one who

0:47:47.400 --> 0:47:50.600
<v Speaker 2>comes out and says, you know, let me tell you

0:47:50.640 --> 0:47:52.640
<v Speaker 2>about what happened to the Native Americans out here, you know,

0:47:52.719 --> 0:47:55.400
<v Speaker 2>like it's not necessarily he's not going to necessarily do

0:47:55.400 --> 0:47:58.080
<v Speaker 2>a good job at that. True, he's telling the Oppenheimer's story.

0:47:58.680 --> 0:48:00.719
<v Speaker 2>I think the issue is that we're going to keep

0:48:00.719 --> 0:48:03.880
<v Speaker 2>seeing movies like Oppenheimer. Who's gonna make one that shows

0:48:03.920 --> 0:48:08.080
<v Speaker 2>us about the Downwinders or about these three women? You

0:48:08.120 --> 0:48:11.279
<v Speaker 2>know that that just should also exist in tandem, and

0:48:11.320 --> 0:48:13.040
<v Speaker 2>then we've got the full picture.

0:48:12.920 --> 0:48:19.480
<v Speaker 1>Right I Speaking of performances, I will say everyone everyone says,

0:48:19.520 --> 0:48:23.439
<v Speaker 1>and everyone knows Christopher Nolan quote doesn't do women. He's

0:48:23.440 --> 0:48:26.600
<v Speaker 1>not great at writing women, not he very rarely has

0:48:26.640 --> 0:48:29.359
<v Speaker 1>them in his movies. If they're there, they're very they're

0:48:29.440 --> 0:48:30.040
<v Speaker 1>very limited.

0:48:30.280 --> 0:48:33.960
<v Speaker 2>It's often like a very important character with very little

0:48:34.000 --> 0:48:39.400
<v Speaker 2>screen time. They're like their significance to the heroes matters

0:48:39.440 --> 0:48:41.719
<v Speaker 2>so much. They're the only ones with any sense who

0:48:41.719 --> 0:48:43.800
<v Speaker 2>know what's going on, Like I'm thinking of Scarlett Johanson

0:48:43.800 --> 0:48:46.759
<v Speaker 2>and The Prestige for example, right, But at the same time,

0:48:46.840 --> 0:48:48.600
<v Speaker 2>the story is not revolve around them.

0:48:48.840 --> 0:48:52.000
<v Speaker 1>I think the criticism is that all his female characters

0:48:52.040 --> 0:48:55.600
<v Speaker 1>only exist in relation to the men what they're doing.

0:48:55.640 --> 0:48:58.880
<v Speaker 1>And in the same in Oppenheimer, Yah, Jean's whole character

0:48:59.080 --> 0:49:00.480
<v Speaker 1>is that she was a I mean this and that

0:49:00.520 --> 0:49:03.440
<v Speaker 1>was a problem for him. You know Kitty's whole characters.

0:49:03.480 --> 0:49:05.319
<v Speaker 1>She's drunk and that's a problem for him. You know

0:49:05.400 --> 0:49:07.560
<v Speaker 1>Rufe's whole characters. I was fucking her and that was it, Like,

0:49:07.600 --> 0:49:10.120
<v Speaker 1>you know, there was there however they related to him,

0:49:10.200 --> 0:49:12.120
<v Speaker 1>that was it. They had no life outside of it.

0:49:12.960 --> 0:49:15.080
<v Speaker 1>And again, this is a very focused movie, and it

0:49:15.160 --> 0:49:16.960
<v Speaker 1>makes sense in a way to say, well, how did

0:49:17.000 --> 0:49:19.719
<v Speaker 1>they what was their thing with him? Specifically because I

0:49:19.719 --> 0:49:21.800
<v Speaker 1>don't have time to go follow Jean through her regular

0:49:21.880 --> 0:49:24.520
<v Speaker 1>daily routine while I'm trying to tell you about the

0:49:24.600 --> 0:49:28.799
<v Speaker 1>nuclear bomb. You know, I totally totally get that. It's

0:49:28.880 --> 0:49:32.080
<v Speaker 1>just I think what's strange in this film is that

0:49:32.160 --> 0:49:34.800
<v Speaker 1>he's clearly trying to address it a little bit. He

0:49:34.920 --> 0:49:39.400
<v Speaker 1>got two amazing actresses, Florence Pugh and Emily Blunt to

0:49:39.440 --> 0:49:43.720
<v Speaker 1>play these women, and there's some scenes you know, he tried,

0:49:44.920 --> 0:49:49.440
<v Speaker 1>like you tried, but it's still so lacking. And particularly

0:49:49.480 --> 0:49:53.560
<v Speaker 1>Florence Pugh is such a phenomenal actress, and I felt

0:49:53.600 --> 0:49:56.080
<v Speaker 1>like she didn't really have that much to do with Jean.

0:49:56.280 --> 0:50:00.239
<v Speaker 1>Jean's scenes seemed to be the same thing each time. Yeah,

0:50:00.320 --> 0:50:02.600
<v Speaker 1>and have a lot of levels and sort of the

0:50:02.600 --> 0:50:04.800
<v Speaker 1>same with kitties. She's kind of the same every scene.

0:50:04.800 --> 0:50:07.360
<v Speaker 1>She was drunk and mad in every scene, and so

0:50:07.400 --> 0:50:09.520
<v Speaker 1>it was just kind of where was the softness. I

0:50:09.560 --> 0:50:11.560
<v Speaker 1>wanted to see what he fell in love with, but

0:50:11.640 --> 0:50:14.600
<v Speaker 1>they liked to know him or you know, anything that

0:50:14.680 --> 0:50:16.880
<v Speaker 1>made them more of a person instead of this is

0:50:16.920 --> 0:50:20.520
<v Speaker 1>who he This is just the part they had to

0:50:20.520 --> 0:50:23.480
<v Speaker 1>play in his life to make him who he was, Yeah,

0:50:23.600 --> 0:50:26.120
<v Speaker 1>instead of this is a full person who affected him.

0:50:26.480 --> 0:50:31.600
<v Speaker 2>You know, we have long known that me and Emily

0:50:31.600 --> 0:50:34.360
<v Speaker 2>Blunt have a very special thing. I know, you and

0:50:34.400 --> 0:50:37.080
<v Speaker 2>I know this. I'm pretty sure John Krasinski knows about it.

0:50:37.080 --> 0:50:39.120
<v Speaker 2>But Emily Blunt and I have a very special thing

0:50:39.120 --> 0:50:42.359
<v Speaker 2>between us, not unlike Oppenheimer and maybe Gene Or it's

0:50:42.400 --> 0:50:45.440
<v Speaker 2>like this, we're both married, we're both happily with our

0:50:45.680 --> 0:50:47.640
<v Speaker 2>but you know, but we can't not be in each

0:50:47.680 --> 0:50:51.040
<v Speaker 2>other's lives. So a big point being I'm a big

0:50:51.120 --> 0:50:54.080
<v Speaker 2>Emily Blunt fan. I think she's very talented, and I

0:50:54.120 --> 0:50:56.520
<v Speaker 2>think she was very good in this movie. But at

0:50:56.520 --> 0:51:01.120
<v Speaker 2>the same time, I did feel in the moment, and

0:51:01.440 --> 0:51:03.799
<v Speaker 2>I do want to see it again and re examine this,

0:51:03.880 --> 0:51:07.000
<v Speaker 2>but I felt in the moment like her shutting down

0:51:07.000 --> 0:51:12.200
<v Speaker 2>the interview, her rob what's his name, the the Jason

0:51:12.200 --> 0:51:16.480
<v Speaker 2>Clark's character, Yes, the security hearing, and her like absolutely

0:51:16.520 --> 0:51:19.120
<v Speaker 2>destroying him was so well delivered. She did such a

0:51:19.160 --> 0:51:21.960
<v Speaker 2>good job in that scene, and yet it felt unearned

0:51:22.080 --> 0:51:27.279
<v Speaker 2>because like he comes, what does Oppenheimer say is like

0:51:27.520 --> 0:51:30.640
<v Speaker 2>or is said about her like she's always.

0:51:30.320 --> 0:51:33.560
<v Speaker 1>He says what Verna Hobson says, Basically, he's like, you

0:51:33.600 --> 0:51:36.960
<v Speaker 1>don't know our relationship. She's my wife. We've been through

0:51:37.000 --> 0:51:39.480
<v Speaker 1>fire together, been through fire, and she can pull herself

0:51:39.520 --> 0:51:41.839
<v Speaker 1>together when you wouldn't think she could, but.

0:51:41.840 --> 0:51:45.759
<v Speaker 2>Specifically that part We've been through fire together. In the moment,

0:51:45.800 --> 0:51:48.800
<v Speaker 2>I was like, oh, have you we haven't really seen that.

0:51:48.719 --> 0:51:51.840
<v Speaker 2>There's that one scene where he was sad about Jeane's

0:51:51.880 --> 0:51:54.319
<v Speaker 2>suicide and she walks up to him and says, play

0:51:54.320 --> 0:51:57.319
<v Speaker 2>yourself together. And that's even what they flashed back to

0:51:57.480 --> 0:52:00.279
<v Speaker 2>as he's saying we've been through fire together. And I

0:52:00.400 --> 0:52:03.959
<v Speaker 2>just felt like the movie lacked kind of, like you said,

0:52:03.960 --> 0:52:07.000
<v Speaker 2>where is the passion in their relationship that led to

0:52:07.040 --> 0:52:09.440
<v Speaker 2>this moment where she said, I'm gonna put my flask

0:52:09.560 --> 0:52:12.960
<v Speaker 2>down and destroy all you guys for having the audacity

0:52:13.000 --> 0:52:14.920
<v Speaker 2>to come after my man. He was one of the

0:52:14.920 --> 0:52:17.200
<v Speaker 2>best people I know. Like we see a few scenes

0:52:17.200 --> 0:52:19.640
<v Speaker 2>of her saying we need to fight harder, we need

0:52:19.680 --> 0:52:23.759
<v Speaker 2>to fight harder. But I was so taken aback by

0:52:23.760 --> 0:52:26.680
<v Speaker 2>that sudden turn from her that I felt like it

0:52:26.719 --> 0:52:29.600
<v Speaker 2>was kind of out of nowhere, as opposed to being suggested,

0:52:29.719 --> 0:52:32.440
<v Speaker 2>suggested and then yes and then revealed.

0:52:32.640 --> 0:52:36.719
<v Speaker 1>I feel like it was she was so scornful and

0:52:36.800 --> 0:52:39.960
<v Speaker 1>almost contemptuous of him in those moments where we need

0:52:39.960 --> 0:52:43.080
<v Speaker 1>to fight, we need to fight. Yeah, that it was

0:52:43.160 --> 0:52:46.720
<v Speaker 1>It didn't read as you know, we're just a different

0:52:46.719 --> 0:52:49.560
<v Speaker 1>personality from each other, and I'm angry on your behalf.

0:52:49.760 --> 0:52:52.600
<v Speaker 1>It was like, I'm angry at you. And a lot

0:52:52.640 --> 0:52:55.439
<v Speaker 1>of the movie was her being angry at him. She's mad,

0:52:55.480 --> 0:52:57.759
<v Speaker 1>she has a kid, she's mad, she don't know about this,

0:52:57.880 --> 0:53:01.040
<v Speaker 1>she's mad about even the thing about pull yourself together,

0:53:01.600 --> 0:53:03.680
<v Speaker 1>Like I guess that was something he needed from her,

0:53:03.880 --> 0:53:06.560
<v Speaker 1>was for her to be that kind of person. It's like, hey,

0:53:06.840 --> 0:53:08.399
<v Speaker 1>I get it, you're sad, but you need to get

0:53:08.400 --> 0:53:10.200
<v Speaker 1>it together. You're in the middle of something right now.

0:53:10.680 --> 0:53:14.160
<v Speaker 1>But it was presented as look at this shrew, like

0:53:14.160 --> 0:53:16.160
<v Speaker 1>like every time you saw her, she was kind of

0:53:16.160 --> 0:53:18.879
<v Speaker 1>a shrew, and she was just sort of yelling and

0:53:19.280 --> 0:53:22.680
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, distracting and not a good presence. And

0:53:22.719 --> 0:53:24.560
<v Speaker 1>I was like, I don't see what makes her such

0:53:24.560 --> 0:53:29.160
<v Speaker 1>a great partner for him. I don't understand. And as

0:53:29.200 --> 0:53:31.200
<v Speaker 1>you say, when she does end up being a bad ass,

0:53:31.200 --> 0:53:34.400
<v Speaker 1>she's like, where did that even come from? So, you know,

0:53:35.080 --> 0:53:37.840
<v Speaker 1>it was it was a little uneven in those ways.

0:53:37.840 --> 0:53:40.560
<v Speaker 1>I do wish that maybe even in the scene where

0:53:40.560 --> 0:53:44.960
<v Speaker 1>they got together, there was a little more anything there.

0:53:45.080 --> 0:53:46.640
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, And then they just show them like

0:53:46.719 --> 0:53:48.520
<v Speaker 1>riding horses, and I guess that's supposed to be the

0:53:48.520 --> 0:53:52.480
<v Speaker 1>good times. Though they're pretty, but they don't give you

0:53:52.560 --> 0:53:57.319
<v Speaker 1>much character development. So yes, although as you say, I

0:53:57.360 --> 0:54:01.719
<v Speaker 1>did love how she performed that security hearing scene was

0:54:01.760 --> 0:54:04.600
<v Speaker 1>really beautifully done. And I will say too, learning that

0:54:04.719 --> 0:54:07.279
<v Speaker 1>Kitty did hold a grudge for the rest of her

0:54:07.320 --> 0:54:10.440
<v Speaker 1>life against every single person who said a damn thing

0:54:10.440 --> 0:54:13.880
<v Speaker 1>against him, including Edward Teller. When he gets his medal,

0:54:14.000 --> 0:54:16.040
<v Speaker 1>he goes to shake his hand and Robert's like, sure,

0:54:16.080 --> 0:54:19.560
<v Speaker 1>no hard feelings, but Emily was sitting there fucking glaring, no,

0:54:19.560 --> 0:54:23.560
<v Speaker 1>no daggers, and that's clearly very true to life. She

0:54:23.200 --> 0:54:25.520
<v Speaker 1>was straight up what to see Edward and like, why

0:54:25.560 --> 0:54:26.640
<v Speaker 1>don't you make shit very dead?

0:54:26.719 --> 0:54:28.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? You said that. The robbers like, how dare you?

0:54:28.600 --> 0:54:30.520
<v Speaker 2>What do you mean you shook his hand? Yes, the

0:54:30.560 --> 0:54:33.800
<v Speaker 2>guy just sold you out right. Yeah. Yeah.

0:54:33.840 --> 0:54:36.600
<v Speaker 1>So that was very well done. And I think Emily

0:54:36.640 --> 0:54:39.080
<v Speaker 1>Blunt said she had a she deeply felt for this

0:54:39.120 --> 0:54:42.719
<v Speaker 1>woman who was very sad and lonely. Yeah, and she

0:54:42.840 --> 0:54:46.200
<v Speaker 1>drank a lot to address those feelings and stuff like that.

0:54:46.320 --> 0:54:48.880
<v Speaker 2>So well, I think I think, you know, obviously we

0:54:48.880 --> 0:54:53.200
<v Speaker 2>can say that Nolan, it's not his strongest storytelling element, right,

0:54:53.640 --> 0:54:59.000
<v Speaker 2>romances and women and how they women and anything about.

0:54:58.760 --> 0:55:00.759
<v Speaker 1>Them, anything about that.

0:55:01.000 --> 0:55:05.799
<v Speaker 2>And on top of that, this is an incredibly complicated

0:55:05.840 --> 0:55:10.000
<v Speaker 2>person who made for an incredibly complicated character. Yeah, so

0:55:10.239 --> 0:55:12.680
<v Speaker 2>these things that we're not seeing, not getting, you know,

0:55:12.840 --> 0:55:16.840
<v Speaker 2>might just be wrapped up in her complications. I do

0:55:16.920 --> 0:55:20.720
<v Speaker 2>agree that there's probably some some things in the movie

0:55:20.719 --> 0:55:24.280
<v Speaker 2>that could have established something that had a better payoff

0:55:24.480 --> 0:55:28.120
<v Speaker 2>in that moment. But but yeah, it's real hard to

0:55:28.200 --> 0:55:31.680
<v Speaker 2>encapsulate somebody like Kitty without her own damn movie, which

0:55:31.800 --> 0:55:34.520
<v Speaker 2>quite frankly, give me that Emily Blunt spin off, and

0:55:34.640 --> 0:55:38.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm first, I'll watch, I'll do the seventy millimeters IMAX thing.

0:55:38.840 --> 0:55:40.400
<v Speaker 1>I would do that there was bigger.

0:55:40.120 --> 0:55:41.200
<v Speaker 2>Emily Blunt, the better.

0:55:41.480 --> 0:55:44.080
<v Speaker 1>I've always said, there is actually a fun story about

0:55:44.120 --> 0:55:47.640
<v Speaker 1>Kitty on Los Alamos, where she fucking was like, why

0:55:47.640 --> 0:55:50.480
<v Speaker 1>don't you eat shit with your security protocol, got in

0:55:50.520 --> 0:55:53.400
<v Speaker 1>the car, drove away from Los Alamos and went to

0:55:53.440 --> 0:55:57.520
<v Speaker 1>a hotel bar for the nice So there were times

0:55:57.600 --> 0:56:00.440
<v Speaker 1>Juice was like, why don't you just eat my dirt?

0:56:01.640 --> 0:56:03.840
<v Speaker 1>So she actually might be kind of a fun movie actually,

0:56:03.880 --> 0:56:07.480
<v Speaker 1>if you really really wanted to try to pull down

0:56:07.480 --> 0:56:10.520
<v Speaker 1>this character who is vivacious and lively and sharp tongued,

0:56:11.040 --> 0:56:13.279
<v Speaker 1>like a witty person can often be very sharp, as

0:56:13.320 --> 0:56:16.480
<v Speaker 1>we've learned with like Oscar Wild example, he was kind

0:56:16.480 --> 0:56:18.920
<v Speaker 1>of a bitch like but he was, but that's what

0:56:19.200 --> 0:56:21.680
<v Speaker 1>was witty. He was a bitchy, witty guy. So when

0:56:21.680 --> 0:56:23.400
<v Speaker 1>he said to me, like, oh, that shit was funny,

0:56:23.640 --> 0:56:25.880
<v Speaker 1>but it was totally a roaster. She might have been

0:56:25.880 --> 0:56:27.439
<v Speaker 1>a roaster, you know, in that way. But you don't

0:56:27.440 --> 0:56:29.760
<v Speaker 1>appreciate a female to roast the same way you appreciate

0:56:29.800 --> 0:56:32.000
<v Speaker 1>a male to roast, you know what I'm saying, as

0:56:32.000 --> 0:56:34.799
<v Speaker 1>little as you appreciate a male roast in you, you

0:56:34.840 --> 0:56:37.399
<v Speaker 1>know you definitely, women are supposed to be nice and kind, right,

0:56:37.480 --> 0:56:43.080
<v Speaker 1>so and and whatever. So at any rate, fantastic performances

0:56:43.160 --> 0:56:45.879
<v Speaker 1>even with very little to work with, We'll say, because again,

0:56:45.960 --> 0:56:46.880
<v Speaker 1>Florence Pew, I.

0:56:46.920 --> 0:56:52.239
<v Speaker 2>Mean, forget, she's doing incredible things, very magnetic. I want.

0:56:52.320 --> 0:56:55.759
<v Speaker 2>I've I've there's been a I've had my foot on

0:56:55.800 --> 0:56:58.920
<v Speaker 2>the break with Florence Pew like ready to tap it,

0:56:59.560 --> 0:57:01.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, ever since she sort of popped up. But

0:57:02.040 --> 0:57:04.919
<v Speaker 2>I've been like, oh, she's you know, the new hunt thing. Well,

0:57:05.000 --> 0:57:08.840
<v Speaker 2>we'll see. I'm always skeptical of public opinion because I

0:57:08.920 --> 0:57:12.640
<v Speaker 2>just think everyone's wrong. But me so I don't know

0:57:12.680 --> 0:57:15.879
<v Speaker 2>what I'm getting at here. Point is she has consistently

0:57:15.880 --> 0:57:22.760
<v Speaker 2>amazed me and checked my hesitations numerous times because she's

0:57:22.800 --> 0:57:25.000
<v Speaker 2>always good. She is. She's always very.

0:57:24.880 --> 0:57:27.960
<v Speaker 1>Good killer And as you said, Kelly and Murphy, amazing,

0:57:28.520 --> 0:57:29.760
<v Speaker 1>just did a fantastic job.

0:57:31.000 --> 0:57:33.680
<v Speaker 2>I want to rush to our Barberie review so real quick,

0:57:33.800 --> 0:57:35.840
<v Speaker 2>just let's just we've talked about the movie a lot.

0:57:36.040 --> 0:57:38.960
<v Speaker 2>Let's just hammer down a couple performances real quick. Obviously

0:57:39.040 --> 0:57:41.600
<v Speaker 2>we talked about the Big three, but let's talk Robert

0:57:41.640 --> 0:57:44.840
<v Speaker 2>johniy Junior coming in and reminding us why he's one

0:57:44.880 --> 0:57:45.640
<v Speaker 2>of the greats.

0:57:47.000 --> 0:57:49.480
<v Speaker 1>Just Healy crushed it fantastic.

0:57:49.720 --> 0:57:50.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:57:50.200 --> 0:57:52.240
<v Speaker 1>There are so many moments where he just did something

0:57:52.320 --> 0:57:54.840
<v Speaker 1>so subtle, Oh my god, just something so little, and

0:57:54.880 --> 0:57:57.040
<v Speaker 1>I was like, you just gave me so much in

0:57:57.080 --> 0:57:59.400
<v Speaker 1>that little moment, and I admire it so much, Like

0:57:59.440 --> 0:58:02.760
<v Speaker 1>when he said, oh, you were just a lowly shoe salesman,

0:58:03.520 --> 0:58:07.320
<v Speaker 1>and Lewis Draus goes just as two salesman and he's

0:58:07.360 --> 0:58:12.240
<v Speaker 1>smiling but his eyes are fucking furious. He just does it.

0:58:11.800 --> 0:58:14.200
<v Speaker 1>It's it's such a little moment, but it was so good,

0:58:14.320 --> 0:58:15.320
<v Speaker 1>and there's few of those.

0:58:15.480 --> 0:58:18.400
<v Speaker 2>The way he pronounces his plosives in that movie, like

0:58:18.440 --> 0:58:21.160
<v Speaker 2>his p's and b's were diff I know Robert Downey

0:58:21.200 --> 0:58:25.960
<v Speaker 2>Junior's voice pretty well after twelve years of MCU and

0:58:25.960 --> 0:58:29.200
<v Speaker 2>and he was speaking just this with this subtle difference.

0:58:29.240 --> 0:58:31.680
<v Speaker 2>That was just like, you're embodying a different person right now.

0:58:31.680 --> 0:58:32.800
<v Speaker 2>And I was so amazed by that.

0:58:33.040 --> 0:58:34.440
<v Speaker 1>Yes, he was really great.

0:58:34.720 --> 0:58:38.880
<v Speaker 2>And may I say, where the hell has Josh Hartnett

0:58:38.880 --> 0:58:40.080
<v Speaker 2>been all this time?

0:58:40.400 --> 0:58:43.800
<v Speaker 1>I was so excited. And he looks different. He looks

0:58:44.200 --> 0:58:46.800
<v Speaker 1>he looks great me, but he looks different than when

0:58:46.840 --> 0:58:50.080
<v Speaker 1>he was pretty boy, young, younger or whatever. But he

0:58:51.080 --> 0:58:53.200
<v Speaker 1>I thought he did a fantastic so.

0:58:53.240 --> 0:58:55.800
<v Speaker 2>Good, so good. I was just like, I never knew

0:58:55.800 --> 0:58:58.560
<v Speaker 2>what to think about him. He's all over the place.

0:58:58.760 --> 0:59:01.760
<v Speaker 2>I was like, Oh, he's bestie, he's he's right there

0:59:01.800 --> 0:59:03.840
<v Speaker 2>with you. Wait a minute, no, this guy's a fascist.

0:59:03.920 --> 0:59:06.080
<v Speaker 2>Wait a minute, no, he's got your back. But it

0:59:06.360 --> 0:59:08.400
<v Speaker 2>was just all over the place in a really good way.

0:59:08.520 --> 0:59:12.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he was his character was apparently he was really

0:59:12.760 --> 0:59:17.640
<v Speaker 1>against union organizing. Yeah, so that's what was his big problem. Yeah.

0:59:16.760 --> 0:59:21.440
<v Speaker 1>But and of course communa he was surely communist kind

0:59:21.480 --> 0:59:24.400
<v Speaker 1>of guy. But but I didn't really get the impression

0:59:24.400 --> 0:59:26.040
<v Speaker 1>from the movie that he had like a long list

0:59:26.120 --> 0:59:30.080
<v Speaker 1>of grievances and would be spreading rumors about Oppenheimer and stuff.

0:59:30.120 --> 0:59:32.320
<v Speaker 1>I was kind of a surprise to see about Ernest

0:59:32.400 --> 0:59:33.560
<v Speaker 1>Lawrence in the research.

0:59:33.760 --> 0:59:35.720
<v Speaker 2>I did kind of get that impression a little bit.

0:59:36.400 --> 0:59:40.160
<v Speaker 2>I did. Yeah, I felt like he not unlike Straws,

0:59:40.320 --> 0:59:43.120
<v Speaker 2>was like he was a little more side by side

0:59:43.160 --> 0:59:45.120
<v Speaker 2>with Oppenheimer so much that he sort of had to

0:59:45.160 --> 0:59:49.040
<v Speaker 2>be had had a positive working relationship with him. But

0:59:49.120 --> 0:59:51.640
<v Speaker 2>it felt like there was something in there that was like, God,

0:59:51.680 --> 0:59:53.640
<v Speaker 2>but oh, I just can't wait to punch this guy

0:59:53.640 --> 0:59:56.720
<v Speaker 2>in the face. Though too like he was. I think

0:59:56.760 --> 0:59:59.600
<v Speaker 2>he was a little jealous of Oppenheimer. I think he

0:59:59.760 --> 1:00:04.360
<v Speaker 2>was resentful of his success, despite the fact that he

1:00:04.480 --> 1:00:07.280
<v Speaker 2>was like, but you're the You're I'm meeting with government

1:00:07.280 --> 1:00:10.040
<v Speaker 2>people about what a problem you are, and they gave

1:00:10.120 --> 1:00:13.720
<v Speaker 2>you the Manhattan Project. Yeah, so I thought there was

1:00:14.080 --> 1:00:17.160
<v Speaker 2>I picked up elements of that. Yeah, sure.

1:00:17.920 --> 1:00:20.080
<v Speaker 1>Well, anyway, Josh Hartnett, great.

1:00:19.960 --> 1:00:21.280
<v Speaker 2>Job, great job, Josh Hark.

1:00:21.680 --> 1:00:23.200
<v Speaker 1>I think at one point you leaned over and you're like,

1:00:23.240 --> 1:00:25.600
<v Speaker 1>every white man with a SAG card is in this movie,

1:00:25.720 --> 1:00:26.800
<v Speaker 1>and that is so true.

1:00:27.080 --> 1:00:33.560
<v Speaker 2>And the rest of SAG was next door working on Barbie.

1:00:34.280 --> 1:00:36.680
<v Speaker 2>Which brings us to the other movie we saw this

1:00:36.880 --> 1:00:40.640
<v Speaker 2>past weekend. And we will take our last break for

1:00:40.720 --> 1:00:43.680
<v Speaker 2>this episode, and we'll come back right after this and

1:00:43.800 --> 1:00:49.680
<v Speaker 2>talk all about Greta Gerwigg's incredibly pink movie.

1:00:49.240 --> 1:00:51.280
<v Speaker 1>Barbie, the pinkest movie ever.

1:00:51.440 --> 1:00:54.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, And of course goes to that saying

1:00:54.840 --> 1:00:59.400
<v Speaker 2>we're talking about the movie here is spoiler alerg rightpoilers. Yeah,

1:00:59.560 --> 1:01:00.120
<v Speaker 2>we'll be right.

1:01:03.120 --> 1:01:05.000
<v Speaker 1>Hi. Barbie's welcome back to the show.

1:01:06.800 --> 1:01:12.080
<v Speaker 2>Perfect. Okay, So Barbie opening night, we went Thursday with

1:01:12.120 --> 1:01:14.520
<v Speaker 2>a bunch of friends because they we thought we weren't

1:01:14.520 --> 1:01:16.840
<v Speaker 2>going to get in because the whole weekend was sold out,

1:01:16.840 --> 1:01:20.160
<v Speaker 2>and then they added a show time. Yay, we managed

1:01:20.200 --> 1:01:21.640
<v Speaker 2>to squeeze in Thursday night.

1:01:21.840 --> 1:01:23.720
<v Speaker 1>All right, And I'm gonna tell y'all, I'm a fan

1:01:23.760 --> 1:01:27.360
<v Speaker 1>of Barbie. I love Barbie's, loved plan with Barbie's had

1:01:27.360 --> 1:01:29.840
<v Speaker 1>a billion Barbies, loved them. I still have them in

1:01:29.920 --> 1:01:32.520
<v Speaker 1>my parents' house. They're always asked me to come get them.

1:01:32.360 --> 1:01:33.959
<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to do it. Their house is bigger

1:01:34.000 --> 1:01:36.440
<v Speaker 1>than mine and they have more storage sorry sorry, more

1:01:36.440 --> 1:01:39.439
<v Speaker 1>storage space over there. I'll try one day, but y'all

1:01:39.440 --> 1:01:42.320
<v Speaker 1>are gonna hold on. But anyway, so I was like

1:01:42.400 --> 1:01:44.440
<v Speaker 1>already sold on the Barbie Movie. Like I was like,

1:01:44.480 --> 1:01:47.360
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to the Barbie Movie. So I'm very happy

1:01:47.360 --> 1:01:50.000
<v Speaker 1>we got to see it opening night, and it was

1:01:50.200 --> 1:01:53.439
<v Speaker 1>It's such an interesting double feature because, you know, one hand,

1:01:53.480 --> 1:01:57.880
<v Speaker 1>you have this dark movie, historic movie with basically nothing

1:01:57.880 --> 1:02:01.440
<v Speaker 1>but men in it doing man thing being men. And

1:02:01.480 --> 1:02:04.680
<v Speaker 1>then you have this movie with so many women in it,

1:02:04.800 --> 1:02:06.760
<v Speaker 1>and it's women being women and they're on top of

1:02:06.800 --> 1:02:08.640
<v Speaker 1>them there in the center of the story and the

1:02:08.680 --> 1:02:10.720
<v Speaker 1>center of the world, and they're the center of everything.

1:02:11.240 --> 1:02:13.120
<v Speaker 1>So it was very kind of interesting to see them

1:02:13.160 --> 1:02:15.360
<v Speaker 1>both at the you know, so close to one another,

1:02:15.680 --> 1:02:19.160
<v Speaker 1>right and for that, especially after leaving, you know, leaving Openhimer, Like, man,

1:02:19.200 --> 1:02:20.840
<v Speaker 1>those ladies didn't get nothing. They should have been the

1:02:20.880 --> 1:02:25.240
<v Speaker 1>Barbie movie. Yeah, they would have gotten more story. Anyway,

1:02:25.400 --> 1:02:27.080
<v Speaker 1>I very much enjoyed the Barbie Movie.

1:02:27.120 --> 1:02:30.120
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I loved it. Super fun. And I'll say

1:02:30.200 --> 1:02:34.400
<v Speaker 2>my relationship with Barbie is limited, but not non existent.

1:02:34.520 --> 1:02:37.960
<v Speaker 2>I remember as a as very young. I was I

1:02:38.000 --> 1:02:40.400
<v Speaker 2>don't know, six years, seven years old something like that,

1:02:40.560 --> 1:02:43.880
<v Speaker 2>and my older sisters were playing with Barbie's and I

1:02:43.960 --> 1:02:48.120
<v Speaker 2>was younger and had my own Kendall except his name

1:02:48.160 --> 1:02:48.720
<v Speaker 2>was George.

1:02:48.960 --> 1:02:51.200
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I don't know, why did you named him George?

1:02:51.280 --> 1:02:53.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I think I named it. It was no like

1:02:53.320 --> 1:02:55.560
<v Speaker 2>I named him George. It was like this guy's name.

1:02:55.800 --> 1:02:58.000
<v Speaker 2>They were like, here's here's a ken and I was like, cool,

1:02:58.040 --> 1:03:03.960
<v Speaker 2>what's his name? Uh, George. And so when I wanted

1:03:04.000 --> 1:03:07.320
<v Speaker 2>to play with my sisters, whom I my own respect

1:03:07.400 --> 1:03:12.480
<v Speaker 2>very much, they were like, Okay, you're the neighbor and

1:03:12.480 --> 1:03:16.520
<v Speaker 2>we're going to invite you over later. So you sit

1:03:16.600 --> 1:03:19.280
<v Speaker 2>in your house, which is in your room, and then

1:03:19.320 --> 1:03:23.320
<v Speaker 2>we'll invite you over later. And cut two little six

1:03:23.440 --> 1:03:27.160
<v Speaker 2>year old sitting in my room with my little George doll,

1:03:28.120 --> 1:03:31.760
<v Speaker 2>just waiting waiting for that invitation. And maybe I don't

1:03:31.760 --> 1:03:35.040
<v Speaker 2>know in my mind, it was weeks went by. It

1:03:35.080 --> 1:03:37.400
<v Speaker 2>was probably ten minutes before I was like, I don't

1:03:37.760 --> 1:03:44.120
<v Speaker 2>think they're gonna invite me and getting really upset. So

1:03:44.240 --> 1:03:48.400
<v Speaker 2>that's that's my Barbie memory. That's how it went for me,

1:03:48.480 --> 1:03:51.560
<v Speaker 2>I was I was more enamored with my thrift store,

1:03:51.640 --> 1:03:54.840
<v Speaker 2>my Little Ponies, what I had with their Neon colors

1:03:54.880 --> 1:03:57.600
<v Speaker 2>and stuff like that. So and of course I had

1:03:57.600 --> 1:04:00.720
<v Speaker 2>some like cool Ninja turtles. So I had a real

1:04:00.800 --> 1:04:04.920
<v Speaker 2>mishmash of toys and dolls and action figures and stuff

1:04:04.920 --> 1:04:07.600
<v Speaker 2>that I played with, but a little bit of Barbie.

1:04:07.640 --> 1:04:12.680
<v Speaker 2>And I will say I was skeptical from the trailer,

1:04:13.080 --> 1:04:17.560
<v Speaker 2>not because I thought it looked bad or I didn't

1:04:17.640 --> 1:04:21.960
<v Speaker 2>like the colors or anything like that. I was thinking,

1:04:22.480 --> 1:04:27.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure if Greta Gerwig and No Bombback No

1:04:28.120 --> 1:04:32.520
<v Speaker 2>Comedy skillfully enough to pull off you know that what

1:04:32.600 --> 1:04:34.920
<v Speaker 2>I feel like is looking like it's supposed to be

1:04:34.960 --> 1:04:37.480
<v Speaker 2>a very funny movie. And I don't know them to

1:04:37.480 --> 1:04:39.840
<v Speaker 2>have a big history with comedy, and I'll say I'm

1:04:39.840 --> 1:04:41.520
<v Speaker 2>not that familiar with either of them, but just looking

1:04:41.560 --> 1:04:43.600
<v Speaker 2>at their IMDb and watching the trailer, I was like,

1:04:43.640 --> 1:04:45.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm nervous that a lot of these jokes are gonna

1:04:45.600 --> 1:04:48.320
<v Speaker 2>fall flat despite the very cool world it looks like

1:04:48.360 --> 1:04:50.959
<v Speaker 2>it takes place. And I'll say I laughed my ass

1:04:50.960 --> 1:04:53.880
<v Speaker 2>off that whole movie hilarious. It was very funny and

1:04:53.320 --> 1:04:57.160
<v Speaker 2>I was wrong to question that, and.

1:04:57.120 --> 1:04:59.200
<v Speaker 1>A lot of that to do with the performances, I

1:04:59.320 --> 1:05:03.960
<v Speaker 1>think too, because Ryan Gosling was so funny, like he

1:05:04.040 --> 1:05:06.240
<v Speaker 1>really brought a lot to the role. I thought Margot

1:05:06.280 --> 1:05:10.400
<v Speaker 1>Robbie was amazing. Oh my god, everyone's talk about Ryan

1:05:10.440 --> 1:05:13.280
<v Speaker 1>Gosling and they should again. He did an amazing job

1:05:13.320 --> 1:05:17.960
<v Speaker 1>and he was really really funny. But Margot Robbie brought

1:05:18.040 --> 1:05:22.800
<v Speaker 1>such a humanity. Yeah, she was so real and I

1:05:22.880 --> 1:05:25.080
<v Speaker 1>just loved it. I just thought she did an amazing job.

1:05:25.360 --> 1:05:27.040
<v Speaker 1>I really thought she was incredible.

1:05:27.440 --> 1:05:31.320
<v Speaker 2>I feel a little badly for her right now because

1:05:31.400 --> 1:05:37.440
<v Speaker 2>and she she'll be fine, but but I feel, like

1:05:37.720 --> 1:05:42.120
<v Speaker 2>so many people, it's so much easier to be impressed

1:05:42.240 --> 1:05:45.160
<v Speaker 2>by what Ryan Gosling was doing because his was big

1:05:45.600 --> 1:05:50.040
<v Speaker 2>and comedic and like he has all these very stylized

1:05:50.080 --> 1:05:54.600
<v Speaker 2>performance deliveries and stuff where it's quotable and stand out

1:05:54.640 --> 1:05:58.720
<v Speaker 2>and noticeable, and what Margaret Robbie doing is so much

1:05:58.760 --> 1:06:03.320
<v Speaker 2>more subtle and like you said, real and human, and

1:06:04.160 --> 1:06:07.200
<v Speaker 2>you don't notice that as much. By definition, she's doing

1:06:07.240 --> 1:06:10.320
<v Speaker 2>a good job because it's not sticking out right, And

1:06:10.360 --> 1:06:14.040
<v Speaker 2>so now I'm like, it's the Barbie movie, which is

1:06:14.160 --> 1:06:19.320
<v Speaker 2>kind of about this, and everybody's talking about Ryan Gosling, right,

1:06:19.400 --> 1:06:22.680
<v Speaker 2>that's upsetting to me for on her behalf because I'm

1:06:22.720 --> 1:06:27.600
<v Speaker 2>like she, I think honestly did a more impressive job

1:06:27.840 --> 1:06:30.440
<v Speaker 2>at doing something that doesn't stick out at you.

1:06:31.400 --> 1:06:32.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I think.

1:06:32.680 --> 1:06:35.560
<v Speaker 2>And America Ferrara too, I thought was also yes, awesome,

1:06:35.560 --> 1:06:37.840
<v Speaker 2>But I also have a little bit of America Frere

1:06:37.880 --> 1:06:41.000
<v Speaker 2>and I also kind of have a deep passionate history together.

1:06:41.120 --> 1:06:43.240
<v Speaker 1>El has a real dog, y'all. He's got a lot

1:06:43.280 --> 1:06:46.360
<v Speaker 1>of girls. I'll say, Margaret Robbie's.

1:06:46.040 --> 1:06:49.240
<v Speaker 2>In my on your list, on my list.

1:06:49.480 --> 1:06:51.400
<v Speaker 1>I love Margaret Robbie.

1:06:51.240 --> 1:06:55.760
<v Speaker 2>And I would be jealous of you, not for you,

1:06:55.840 --> 1:06:57.520
<v Speaker 2>like you know what I mean, Like, I wouldn't be like,

1:06:57.560 --> 1:07:00.680
<v Speaker 2>how dare you? I'd be like, how dare you? Why

1:07:00.720 --> 1:07:03.800
<v Speaker 2>not me? I'm well.

1:07:06.200 --> 1:07:09.080
<v Speaker 1>No, but yeah, I just thought, yeah, I thought everybody

1:07:09.080 --> 1:07:11.560
<v Speaker 1>and it was for first of all, everyone in it

1:07:11.600 --> 1:07:13.840
<v Speaker 1>was having a blast, which is really fun to watch.

1:07:13.920 --> 1:07:15.720
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it just makes it so much more fun

1:07:15.760 --> 1:07:19.200
<v Speaker 1>to watch. I really enjoyed the idea of a land,

1:07:19.360 --> 1:07:23.240
<v Speaker 1>Barbie Land, you know, you know, completely run by Barbie.

1:07:23.360 --> 1:07:26.360
<v Speaker 1>The cans are not important, They're They're just there, you know,

1:07:26.480 --> 1:07:32.720
<v Speaker 1>to be Kens. There's even like some Barbie show on

1:07:34.280 --> 1:07:36.440
<v Speaker 1>I don't even know what network, but it's some Barbie

1:07:36.440 --> 1:07:39.040
<v Speaker 1>show anyway, and they show they show this little clip

1:07:39.040 --> 1:07:41.840
<v Speaker 1>of Ken being like, well, Barbie has so many jobs

1:07:41.920 --> 1:07:44.040
<v Speaker 1>and I just don't have any job, Like what am I?

1:07:44.080 --> 1:07:44.800
<v Speaker 2>What do I even do?

1:07:44.960 --> 1:07:48.520
<v Speaker 1>And he goes, I'm Barbie's boyfriend. That's my job, you know.

1:07:48.600 --> 1:07:51.080
<v Speaker 1>So it's like very common for Ken to be given

1:07:51.160 --> 1:07:53.640
<v Speaker 1>this kind of ideal of like, that's my job, beach

1:07:53.760 --> 1:07:56.240
<v Speaker 1>I do peach or what I and that's what I do,

1:07:57.360 --> 1:07:59.200
<v Speaker 1>and I just I think that's really fun and it

1:07:59.240 --> 1:08:00.840
<v Speaker 1>was fun to sort of lp it on its head.

1:08:00.880 --> 1:08:02.960
<v Speaker 1>Of course, that's the point, right, is that they come

1:08:03.000 --> 1:08:06.040
<v Speaker 1>to the real world and they find that women don't

1:08:06.080 --> 1:08:09.040
<v Speaker 1>run the world and all the men are not himbos

1:08:09.520 --> 1:08:11.480
<v Speaker 1>running around trying to make the women happy with them.

1:08:12.120 --> 1:08:14.840
<v Speaker 1>It's very much the opposite. And so then Ken learns

1:08:14.840 --> 1:08:18.360
<v Speaker 1>about patriarchy, brings it to Barbieland and changes everything in

1:08:18.400 --> 1:08:22.679
<v Speaker 1>barbie Land, and all the Barbies are now skimpily clad,

1:08:23.280 --> 1:08:27.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, serve and drinks and yeah, subservient, and the

1:08:27.080 --> 1:08:29.680
<v Speaker 1>Kens are all very excited about patriarchy because they get

1:08:29.720 --> 1:08:31.599
<v Speaker 1>to be in charge of things and have their Instead

1:08:31.600 --> 1:08:33.000
<v Speaker 1>of a dream house, they get to have a mojo

1:08:33.040 --> 1:08:36.600
<v Speaker 1>dojo kasa house or whatever. So then they have to

1:08:36.640 --> 1:08:39.880
<v Speaker 1>write the Barbie land, right, that's the movie to write

1:08:39.880 --> 1:08:45.280
<v Speaker 1>barbieland get it back to Barbie's in charge. And we

1:08:45.360 --> 1:08:48.400
<v Speaker 1>did you know, we're feminists ourselves, and we have a

1:08:48.439 --> 1:08:50.559
<v Speaker 1>lot of feminist friends that are very deep in the

1:08:50.560 --> 1:08:53.320
<v Speaker 1>theory and they have been studying feminism for many, many,

1:08:53.360 --> 1:08:56.160
<v Speaker 1>many many years. Right, So we have some friends that

1:08:56.200 --> 1:08:59.840
<v Speaker 1>are kind of like in the Barbie movie, not that great, right,

1:09:00.000 --> 1:09:04.240
<v Speaker 1>feminist wise, it's very simplict like Baby's First feminism. Yeah, yeah,

1:09:04.640 --> 1:09:07.519
<v Speaker 1>and it is. There's definitely if you read any theory,

1:09:07.800 --> 1:09:09.680
<v Speaker 1>a lot of the things that are said in the

1:09:09.720 --> 1:09:13.320
<v Speaker 1>film you've heard a thousand times yea, like America Frere's

1:09:13.360 --> 1:09:16.000
<v Speaker 1>big speech for example, in the film, I have heard

1:09:16.200 --> 1:09:22.479
<v Speaker 1>a variation of since college. Right, So I was like, yeah, yeah, obviously,

1:09:24.280 --> 1:09:26.960
<v Speaker 1>So that can be a little off putting, I guess

1:09:27.000 --> 1:09:29.479
<v Speaker 1>if you're watching it for feminist reasons, I guess.

1:09:29.320 --> 1:09:31.960
<v Speaker 2>Or if you're really first disappointing that it's like so

1:09:32.120 --> 1:09:35.559
<v Speaker 2>basic you were hoping for something more little dechallenging for yourself.

1:09:35.640 --> 1:09:38.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, profound or something like that, And I totally understand that,

1:09:39.000 --> 1:09:42.200
<v Speaker 1>and it's completely valid. I thought it worked though, because

1:09:42.280 --> 1:09:45.599
<v Speaker 1>the whole conceit throughout is that Barbie and Barbie Land

1:09:45.600 --> 1:09:47.679
<v Speaker 1>they're being played with, right, So for example, she doesn't

1:09:47.680 --> 1:09:49.960
<v Speaker 1>walk down the stairs, she floats because you just take

1:09:50.000 --> 1:09:51.240
<v Speaker 1>your Barbie and you pick her up and you put

1:09:51.240 --> 1:09:52.599
<v Speaker 1>her wherever you want her to be when you play

1:09:52.640 --> 1:09:55.800
<v Speaker 1>with her. So they're very much leaning into that people

1:09:55.800 --> 1:09:58.120
<v Speaker 1>are being played with. This is the playing this is

1:09:58.120 --> 1:10:01.200
<v Speaker 1>the playing situation. So it kind of worked for me

1:10:01.240 --> 1:10:04.400
<v Speaker 1>because it was like it was simplistic and straightforward in

1:10:04.439 --> 1:10:07.719
<v Speaker 1>the way that oh, no, Barbie Lands, Barbie's been taken

1:10:07.760 --> 1:10:11.360
<v Speaker 1>over by the patriarchy. I know, we'll speak truth to power,

1:10:11.479 --> 1:10:13.880
<v Speaker 1>and then by the time your playtime is over, everything

1:10:14.000 --> 1:10:16.000
<v Speaker 1>is fixed and everything is fine. And it took very

1:10:16.000 --> 1:10:18.800
<v Speaker 1>little and it wasn't hard. Yeah, that's playtime, right, So

1:10:18.880 --> 1:10:21.120
<v Speaker 1>it kind of worked for me on that level. And

1:10:21.160 --> 1:10:22.759
<v Speaker 1>I was like, there's a lot of people who don't

1:10:22.960 --> 1:10:26.240
<v Speaker 1>read feminist theory since college that haven't heard all this shits,

1:10:26.320 --> 1:10:28.800
<v Speaker 1>and it was probably still very revelatory for a lot

1:10:28.840 --> 1:10:32.080
<v Speaker 1>of watchers. So I'm okay, if you need to welcome

1:10:32.080 --> 1:10:35.920
<v Speaker 1>Matt to feminism, make it hot pink, I'm fine with that.

1:10:35.920 --> 1:10:38.400
<v Speaker 2>That's what I'm thinking too about America Ferrera's character. This

1:10:38.439 --> 1:10:41.960
<v Speaker 2>is not a woman who necessarily has read a bunch

1:10:42.000 --> 1:10:44.240
<v Speaker 2>of feminist theory and has heard all these arguments before.

1:10:44.280 --> 1:10:48.800
<v Speaker 2>She's literally discovering and saying that. It's not that she's

1:10:48.840 --> 1:10:50.640
<v Speaker 2>discovering her for the first time. She's known it and

1:10:50.720 --> 1:10:53.920
<v Speaker 2>never had someone to express it too. Yes, and now

1:10:53.960 --> 1:10:56.000
<v Speaker 2>she's in this place she's like, hang on, let me

1:10:56.040 --> 1:10:58.080
<v Speaker 2>tell you what I think and lays out something that

1:10:58.160 --> 1:11:01.080
<v Speaker 2>may sound very foundational to someone. She's not a scholar.

1:11:01.560 --> 1:11:04.320
<v Speaker 2>She's a mom with a job like she's She's someone

1:11:04.320 --> 1:11:07.040
<v Speaker 2>who would just let me articulate this any way I can,

1:11:07.520 --> 1:11:11.080
<v Speaker 2>so that these brainwashed people can also hear it and

1:11:11.280 --> 1:11:13.760
<v Speaker 2>be woken up a little bit. So I think by

1:11:14.560 --> 1:11:19.080
<v Speaker 2>its nature it should be kind of simple in its ideology,

1:11:19.200 --> 1:11:21.680
<v Speaker 2>like a foundational understanding of it.

1:11:22.560 --> 1:11:24.920
<v Speaker 1>It made sense to me, Yeah, I didn't, It didn't.

1:11:24.960 --> 1:11:26.240
<v Speaker 1>It didn't. I mean at the time when I was

1:11:26.280 --> 1:11:28.400
<v Speaker 1>watching it, I was like, all right, Greta Gerwig, I

1:11:28.439 --> 1:11:30.960
<v Speaker 1>know you know more than this this is like Twitter

1:11:31.720 --> 1:11:36.439
<v Speaker 1>twitter stuff. But again then having seen it still really

1:11:36.520 --> 1:11:38.559
<v Speaker 1>enjoyed it. I was like, fine, whatever, And then I

1:11:38.600 --> 1:11:41.720
<v Speaker 1>was reading a lot of reactions and there were a

1:11:41.760 --> 1:11:45.800
<v Speaker 1>lot of women older than me, younger than me, who

1:11:45.840 --> 1:11:48.280
<v Speaker 1>were like when they said that, I cried When America

1:11:48.280 --> 1:11:50.799
<v Speaker 1>Ferrera had that speech, I cried. It was so amazing

1:11:50.840 --> 1:11:54.040
<v Speaker 1>to hear finally, for the first time someone say that,

1:11:54.439 --> 1:11:56.639
<v Speaker 1>and it was like, oh wow, I never really thought

1:11:56.640 --> 1:11:58.760
<v Speaker 1>about my life that way, or I never really you know,

1:11:59.240 --> 1:12:04.040
<v Speaker 1>literally it was working in in real time for some

1:12:04.160 --> 1:12:08.960
<v Speaker 1>people that didn't don't don't aren't familiar with that thinking. So, uh,

1:12:08.960 --> 1:12:11.439
<v Speaker 1>that was fine with me. That was fine with me.

1:12:12.800 --> 1:12:15.000
<v Speaker 1>But I do get the criticism, of course, Oh for sure,

1:12:15.000 --> 1:12:15.840
<v Speaker 1>that was fine with me.

1:12:15.880 --> 1:12:17.920
<v Speaker 2>Sure it's not a flawless movie, and it's not gonna

1:12:18.320 --> 1:12:21.280
<v Speaker 2>fix all the world's problems, but hopefully it will, you know,

1:12:21.320 --> 1:12:24.599
<v Speaker 2>give people something to think about. Yeah, I mean, I'll

1:12:24.640 --> 1:12:28.040
<v Speaker 2>say my my biggest challenge was probably actually in the

1:12:28.040 --> 1:12:30.680
<v Speaker 2>real world. The executives and we talked about this a

1:12:30.680 --> 1:12:32.760
<v Speaker 2>little bit, the Will Ferrell's character and all them like

1:12:33.360 --> 1:12:36.640
<v Speaker 2>they were so I think Ryan George said it on

1:12:36.720 --> 1:12:40.719
<v Speaker 2>pitch meeting. He's like all the Mattel executives who want

1:12:40.760 --> 1:12:43.800
<v Speaker 2>to eat their cake but also have their cake. Yeah,

1:12:43.880 --> 1:12:46.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, it was like they were point in one

1:12:46.680 --> 1:12:51.200
<v Speaker 2>in one aspect, they're the problem, right, Like there's all

1:12:51.200 --> 1:12:55.160
<v Speaker 2>these men running this company for girls dolls don't know

1:12:55.240 --> 1:12:59.719
<v Speaker 2>no better, and they're reinforcing all these negative stereotypes, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

1:12:59.760 --> 1:13:02.360
<v Speaker 2>So they're kind of the bad guys, but they're presented

1:13:02.400 --> 1:13:05.200
<v Speaker 2>as so dopey and silly.

1:13:04.880 --> 1:13:06.719
<v Speaker 1>And and well.

1:13:06.600 --> 1:13:10.880
<v Speaker 2>Intentioned and unrealistic. We moved from Barbie's fantasyland into the

1:13:10.880 --> 1:13:13.519
<v Speaker 2>real world, and most of the men they meet in

1:13:13.520 --> 1:13:16.160
<v Speaker 2>the real world are some exaggerated version of and are

1:13:16.240 --> 1:13:18.840
<v Speaker 2>not not so much exaggerated of. You know, the worst

1:13:18.880 --> 1:13:21.160
<v Speaker 2>kind of man you meet on the street, cat callers

1:13:21.200 --> 1:13:24.160
<v Speaker 2>and ass slappers and you know, all these like kind

1:13:24.160 --> 1:13:26.919
<v Speaker 2>of gross dudes. And then they show up at Mattel

1:13:27.080 --> 1:13:29.759
<v Speaker 2>and we're back in a fantasy like these aren't realistic

1:13:29.840 --> 1:13:32.480
<v Speaker 2>characters anymore. Ken they're basically.

1:13:32.120 --> 1:13:34.599
<v Speaker 1>Kenny Himbo's Yeah, they're they're kind of Ken life.

1:13:34.680 --> 1:13:36.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then they when they go to Barbie Land

1:13:36.680 --> 1:13:42.000
<v Speaker 2>and it's funny, but it's feels unnecessary. It feels wedged in, Yeah,

1:13:42.000 --> 1:13:44.240
<v Speaker 2>and I don't feel like they got the right lesson

1:13:44.479 --> 1:13:46.719
<v Speaker 2>out of it, or or at least not an effective

1:13:46.800 --> 1:13:48.639
<v Speaker 2>version of whatever they were trying to do with those guys.

1:13:48.720 --> 1:13:52.240
<v Speaker 1>I agree. I feel like the Metel executives were completely pointless. Really,

1:13:52.320 --> 1:13:55.080
<v Speaker 1>they they really had nothing ye to do with anything.

1:13:55.320 --> 1:13:56.840
<v Speaker 1>I think if you took them out, it wouldn't really

1:13:56.920 --> 1:13:57.960
<v Speaker 1>change the mood very much.

1:13:58.040 --> 1:13:58.519
<v Speaker 2>It wouldn't.

1:13:59.320 --> 1:14:01.559
<v Speaker 1>But you know, well, also keeping in mind that this

1:14:01.600 --> 1:14:06.160
<v Speaker 1>isn't a Tel person exactly. Uh maybe Baby's Furst feminism

1:14:06.320 --> 1:14:09.640
<v Speaker 1>and goofy fun well intentioned and Metel execs where we

1:14:09.680 --> 1:14:11.880
<v Speaker 1>do point out there's not enough women in here, not

1:14:12.000 --> 1:14:13.600
<v Speaker 1>as far as they were letting her go, you know

1:14:13.640 --> 1:14:16.080
<v Speaker 1>what I mean, So I do. I do keep that

1:14:16.160 --> 1:14:17.960
<v Speaker 1>in mind. It's not like it was gretit Ger who

1:14:18.040 --> 1:14:19.960
<v Speaker 1>was like, I'm coming after me till you know, like,

1:14:22.600 --> 1:14:25.400
<v Speaker 1>but they were definitely, I thought, pretty pretty useless.

1:14:25.840 --> 1:14:30.120
<v Speaker 2>I also felt, I'll give my my male perspective.

1:14:29.840 --> 1:14:32.880
<v Speaker 1>Here for thank God, finally thanks.

1:14:32.680 --> 1:14:37.160
<v Speaker 2>Someone's giving it. But no, really, I think from my perspective,

1:14:37.160 --> 1:14:40.559
<v Speaker 2>I really enjoyed the what I felt like they were

1:14:40.600 --> 1:14:45.120
<v Speaker 2>saying with this patriarchy takeover of Barbie Land, where it

1:14:45.240 --> 1:14:50.599
<v Speaker 2>wasn't exclusively like men are awful and you give them

1:14:50.600 --> 1:14:52.599
<v Speaker 2>a chance and they'll just all turn into the worst

1:14:52.600 --> 1:14:56.439
<v Speaker 2>douchebags in the world. Theirs was and this was I

1:14:56.520 --> 1:15:00.679
<v Speaker 2>think highlighted in Barbie and Ken's conversation near the end,

1:15:01.640 --> 1:15:05.320
<v Speaker 2>largely a reaction to how they'd been treated in their

1:15:05.360 --> 1:15:08.839
<v Speaker 2>world up to that point, Like the reason the Kens

1:15:08.880 --> 1:15:13.200
<v Speaker 2>went so far in the wrong direction was because they

1:15:13.240 --> 1:15:15.680
<v Speaker 2>had not been allowed to have any agency of their

1:15:15.680 --> 1:15:18.760
<v Speaker 2>own for so long, right, so they are, you know,

1:15:18.840 --> 1:15:23.040
<v Speaker 2>treated as objects for Barbie totally at the at their mercy,

1:15:23.560 --> 1:15:25.880
<v Speaker 2>and they don't really have their own full identities or

1:15:25.920 --> 1:15:28.960
<v Speaker 2>anything like that. They're basically just dolls, these hymbos, and

1:15:29.040 --> 1:15:31.599
<v Speaker 2>so when presented with like, well you could have power,

1:15:32.240 --> 1:15:35.120
<v Speaker 2>they go a little overboard with it. They go very

1:15:35.160 --> 1:15:38.800
<v Speaker 2>overboard with it. And I to me that felt like

1:15:39.320 --> 1:15:44.200
<v Speaker 2>the lesson in there is not just like these men

1:15:44.240 --> 1:15:48.960
<v Speaker 2>that act like this are monsters, obviously, and the cruelty

1:15:49.040 --> 1:15:54.439
<v Speaker 2>they did towards Barbie's is unacceptable, but also how we

1:15:54.520 --> 1:15:59.160
<v Speaker 2>treat each other informs our reactions to that, right, and

1:15:59.360 --> 1:16:03.360
<v Speaker 2>so there was something for Barbie to learn too, And

1:16:03.439 --> 1:16:06.479
<v Speaker 2>I think that parallels back into the real world when

1:16:07.040 --> 1:16:11.040
<v Speaker 2>men get all angry about how reactive feminists are or

1:16:11.080 --> 1:16:14.960
<v Speaker 2>how like you know that that ideology is so extreme,

1:16:15.240 --> 1:16:17.200
<v Speaker 2>It's like, well, what do you want? How look at

1:16:17.200 --> 1:16:19.559
<v Speaker 2>the lives these people have had to live for so long.

1:16:20.439 --> 1:16:23.439
<v Speaker 2>Of course they want to move quickly and rapidly in

1:16:23.479 --> 1:16:27.600
<v Speaker 2>the other direction. And maybe you might feel like that's overshooting,

1:16:27.960 --> 1:16:30.800
<v Speaker 2>But what do you expect from someone who hasn't had

1:16:30.800 --> 1:16:32.000
<v Speaker 2>any agency their whole lives?

1:16:32.160 --> 1:16:32.360
<v Speaker 1>Right?

1:16:32.479 --> 1:16:33.600
<v Speaker 2>You know? Yeah?

1:16:33.760 --> 1:16:36.840
<v Speaker 1>And I like too that it was patriarchy was as

1:16:36.920 --> 1:16:39.519
<v Speaker 1>much of a brainwash for them, yes, as it was

1:16:39.560 --> 1:16:42.000
<v Speaker 1>for the Barbiees, Like they they were fully taken in

1:16:42.560 --> 1:16:44.040
<v Speaker 1>and Ken's like, as soon as I found out was

1:16:44.080 --> 1:16:48.479
<v Speaker 1>about I didn't really care. I thought that was so funny,

1:16:49.080 --> 1:16:51.360
<v Speaker 1>Like that was so funny. And I think that's good

1:16:51.400 --> 1:16:54.000
<v Speaker 1>because it shows like patriarchy was hurting them too, even

1:16:54.000 --> 1:16:55.640
<v Speaker 1>when they were in charge of everything. They were like

1:16:55.680 --> 1:16:57.760
<v Speaker 1>I just missed my friend Barbie, and I don't know

1:16:57.760 --> 1:17:00.160
<v Speaker 1>what to do, And you know, like they didn't like

1:17:00.240 --> 1:17:03.520
<v Speaker 1>it really, I mean, you know, they were pretty uncomfortable

1:17:03.720 --> 1:17:06.160
<v Speaker 1>after a while, I think, and it was just not

1:17:06.360 --> 1:17:08.200
<v Speaker 1>how they wanted to live. They wanted to be with

1:17:08.280 --> 1:17:10.559
<v Speaker 1>Barbie and have a good time with Barbie, Like that was,

1:17:10.600 --> 1:17:12.559
<v Speaker 1>you know, why do I need her to be over

1:17:12.600 --> 1:17:18.000
<v Speaker 1>here underneath me in order to feel like a full Ken?

1:17:18.520 --> 1:17:22.720
<v Speaker 1>I am kanough or But you know, I thought that

1:17:22.800 --> 1:17:25.360
<v Speaker 1>was that was well done, or at least I thought

1:17:25.360 --> 1:17:27.720
<v Speaker 1>that was a big point. Part of that point, I

1:17:27.760 --> 1:17:30.200
<v Speaker 1>think was to show like this is harming them as

1:17:30.240 --> 1:17:33.280
<v Speaker 1>much as it's harming the Barbie is either way, you're

1:17:33.840 --> 1:17:37.360
<v Speaker 1>caught up in a way of thinking that isn't serving you,

1:17:37.360 --> 1:17:40.639
<v Speaker 1>you know, stuff like that. So I thought that was that.

1:17:40.600 --> 1:17:42.960
<v Speaker 2>Worked really well.

1:17:43.960 --> 1:17:47.360
<v Speaker 1>I had issues with some of the Ruth Handler stuff

1:17:47.960 --> 1:17:51.680
<v Speaker 1>at the end. So when Barbie is saying, I'm you know,

1:17:52.000 --> 1:17:54.519
<v Speaker 1>not done, like my story is not and Mattell's like, well,

1:17:54.520 --> 1:17:56.519
<v Speaker 1>you're in love with Ken, that's your story, and she's like, well,

1:17:56.520 --> 1:17:58.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm not in love with Ken, So I was my

1:17:58.320 --> 1:18:01.080
<v Speaker 1>story right? And so so then she meets Ruth Handler,

1:18:01.120 --> 1:18:06.360
<v Speaker 1>and Ruth Handler's like she says the line mothers stand

1:18:06.439 --> 1:18:10.080
<v Speaker 1>still so our daughters can look back and see how

1:18:10.080 --> 1:18:13.160
<v Speaker 1>far they've come, or something paraphrasing something like that.

1:18:13.160 --> 1:18:14.160
<v Speaker 2>I think that's pretty much it.

1:18:14.960 --> 1:18:17.680
<v Speaker 1>And I disliked that line I'm not a mother, so

1:18:18.200 --> 1:18:21.000
<v Speaker 1>feel free to write to me and tell me why

1:18:21.040 --> 1:18:22.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm wrong about this. But I did not like the

1:18:22.920 --> 1:18:25.679
<v Speaker 1>idea that moms once they have a kid, stand still

1:18:26.360 --> 1:18:30.479
<v Speaker 1>and don't do anything, or don't achieve anything right, or

1:18:30.520 --> 1:18:34.160
<v Speaker 1>don't continue to work on themselves or their lives because

1:18:34.200 --> 1:18:36.640
<v Speaker 1>it's all about their daughter now or something. I just

1:18:36.640 --> 1:18:39.439
<v Speaker 1>didn't really think that sentiment worked for me. It didn't

1:18:39.479 --> 1:18:43.000
<v Speaker 1>land it. Sort of that idea is why I don't

1:18:43.000 --> 1:18:44.920
<v Speaker 1>want kids. Why I think a lot of people don't

1:18:44.960 --> 1:18:48.400
<v Speaker 1>want kids is because of that idea. And I saw

1:18:48.439 --> 1:18:50.400
<v Speaker 1>a lot of women say they loved that line and

1:18:50.439 --> 1:18:52.120
<v Speaker 1>they thought it was amazing and it brought to you

1:18:52.160 --> 1:18:54.599
<v Speaker 1>to their eyes. So maybe I'm missing something.

1:18:54.640 --> 1:18:56.800
<v Speaker 2>But well, I'm sure it depends on your perspective too.

1:18:56.840 --> 1:18:59.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure a lot of mothers feel like I put

1:18:59.880 --> 1:19:03.000
<v Speaker 2>some shit down, yeah, so that you know, my daughter

1:19:03.040 --> 1:19:06.479
<v Speaker 2>could get further than I did, and you know I

1:19:06.520 --> 1:19:09.080
<v Speaker 2>set my career aside to raise her. Whatever. I mean.

1:19:09.080 --> 1:19:13.600
<v Speaker 2>The women have such a more complicated, uh life to

1:19:13.720 --> 1:19:17.240
<v Speaker 2>lead as a parent in a lot of ways, in

1:19:17.600 --> 1:19:20.679
<v Speaker 2>a lot of the traditional sense, like, well, I guess

1:19:20.760 --> 1:19:23.840
<v Speaker 2>my it's default assumption that if someone's career has got

1:19:23.880 --> 1:19:27.400
<v Speaker 2>to go. It's mine, right, So you know that's where

1:19:27.400 --> 1:19:30.519
<v Speaker 2>I'm seeing. I guess where you could find something relatable

1:19:30.560 --> 1:19:33.080
<v Speaker 2>in that line, but I do think it's such a

1:19:33.360 --> 1:19:36.599
<v Speaker 2>I agree with you that it's so bluntly stated as

1:19:36.640 --> 1:19:40.120
<v Speaker 2>a rule, right that it's it's a little disheartening.

1:19:40.320 --> 1:19:42.680
<v Speaker 1>Well, and to tie it back to Oppenheimer, is that

1:19:42.760 --> 1:19:45.439
<v Speaker 1>not why Kitty was the way she was. Yeah, because

1:19:45.479 --> 1:19:47.960
<v Speaker 1>she had to stand still for other people and did

1:19:48.000 --> 1:19:50.120
<v Speaker 1>not get to become a botanist like she wanted, and

1:19:50.160 --> 1:19:52.519
<v Speaker 1>not get her PhD. And I know she chose her

1:19:52.600 --> 1:19:54.680
<v Speaker 1>She made her choices too. She said, I'm not going

1:19:54.720 --> 1:19:57.080
<v Speaker 1>to go after this PhD. She did her thing. Sure,

1:19:57.439 --> 1:19:59.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm not trying to take that away, but that is

1:20:00.120 --> 1:20:02.559
<v Speaker 1>part of what made her so mad, I think, and

1:20:02.640 --> 1:20:06.360
<v Speaker 1>feel so constrained in her life. Was once you're a

1:20:06.360 --> 1:20:09.200
<v Speaker 1>wife and mother, that's what you are. You don't get

1:20:09.200 --> 1:20:12.200
<v Speaker 1>to have something else. So that line kind of frustrated

1:20:12.240 --> 1:20:15.200
<v Speaker 1>me on that level. Again, maybe I'm missing something because

1:20:15.240 --> 1:20:18.800
<v Speaker 1>I'm not a parent myself, but I had trouble with

1:20:18.840 --> 1:20:22.679
<v Speaker 1>that line. And I also kind of hated the part

1:20:22.720 --> 1:20:25.320
<v Speaker 1>where she's like, I want to be a real human

1:20:25.800 --> 1:20:28.320
<v Speaker 1>and she's like, well, take my hands and you'll see

1:20:28.360 --> 1:20:30.080
<v Speaker 1>what it's really like to be human, so you know what,

1:20:30.400 --> 1:20:32.800
<v Speaker 1>you know what you're getting yourself into here. And then

1:20:32.840 --> 1:20:34.960
<v Speaker 1>they showed nothing but good times. Yeah, show a lot

1:20:35.000 --> 1:20:37.720
<v Speaker 1>of home videos of like happy birthdays and like fun

1:20:37.800 --> 1:20:40.519
<v Speaker 1>Christmases and like people in a field with flowers and

1:20:40.600 --> 1:20:44.840
<v Speaker 1>like babies and lovely imagery about how great it is

1:20:44.880 --> 1:20:47.120
<v Speaker 1>to be a human being. And I remember even thinking

1:20:47.120 --> 1:20:49.160
<v Speaker 1>in the movie, I wish they were showing the nuclear bomb,

1:20:49.680 --> 1:20:53.080
<v Speaker 1>because I mean, first of all, I've been an amazing

1:20:53.120 --> 1:20:57.920
<v Speaker 1>tie in. It's just like Kelly and Murphy somehow, but

1:20:59.080 --> 1:21:01.439
<v Speaker 1>that you know, good times is not the only thing

1:21:01.479 --> 1:21:03.080
<v Speaker 1>there is to be in human And I think it

1:21:03.080 --> 1:21:06.040
<v Speaker 1>would have made her yes, a lot more definitive and

1:21:06.120 --> 1:21:08.320
<v Speaker 1>powerful if she had seen a lot of bad shit

1:21:08.400 --> 1:21:11.479
<v Speaker 1>too and said even so with all that shit, I

1:21:11.640 --> 1:21:14.200
<v Speaker 1>still want it, right, I think I think it would

1:21:14.200 --> 1:21:16.160
<v Speaker 1>have been more powerful, And so it kind of undercut

1:21:16.160 --> 1:21:18.040
<v Speaker 1>it to me to only show good things.

1:21:18.160 --> 1:21:22.040
<v Speaker 2>I was thinking the exact same thing during that montage.

1:21:22.400 --> 1:21:24.360
<v Speaker 2>I was like, this is a little too nice for

1:21:24.479 --> 1:21:26.160
<v Speaker 2>the idea of what it is to be human. It

1:21:26.760 --> 1:21:30.639
<v Speaker 2>sucks sometimes and and also, that's what makes good things

1:21:30.680 --> 1:21:33.559
<v Speaker 2>good is bad things. If everything was just happy all

1:21:33.600 --> 1:21:36.360
<v Speaker 2>the time, then where's your comparison point? What is happy?

1:21:36.400 --> 1:21:39.880
<v Speaker 2>It's just normal, right, right? So I agree that I

1:21:39.880 --> 1:21:41.599
<v Speaker 2>think that montage would have been a lot better with

1:21:41.640 --> 1:21:45.919
<v Speaker 2>some some some shots from openham They if both movies

1:21:46.200 --> 1:21:50.520
<v Speaker 2>had found a way to include in their montages elements

1:21:50.520 --> 1:21:53.240
<v Speaker 2>of the other. Truly the greatest we had to get

1:21:53.560 --> 1:21:54.160
<v Speaker 2>movies like.

1:21:54.120 --> 1:21:59.360
<v Speaker 1>A drunken dream of kitties. So she's going, Hi, Barbie, Hi, Barbie, Hi, Barbie,

1:21:59.439 --> 1:22:04.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm a bus fitness and then she wakes up. You know,

1:22:04.040 --> 1:22:07.760
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, right. I also loved the point where

1:22:07.800 --> 1:22:10.439
<v Speaker 1>she said all these things about how contradictory it is

1:22:10.479 --> 1:22:12.719
<v Speaker 1>to be a woman, and now we want we're putting

1:22:12.760 --> 1:22:14.679
<v Speaker 1>all that on a doll as well, because we want

1:22:14.680 --> 1:22:17.839
<v Speaker 1>Barbe to see everything too. She has to be both beautiful,

1:22:17.880 --> 1:22:20.160
<v Speaker 1>slim and gorgeous so that people want to play with her.

1:22:20.240 --> 1:22:22.559
<v Speaker 1>But also she has to be every job and smart

1:22:22.600 --> 1:22:25.240
<v Speaker 1>and have all the capabilities of whatever whatever, right, Like,

1:22:25.280 --> 1:22:27.599
<v Speaker 1>we need her to do everything and be everything. So

1:22:27.640 --> 1:22:30.479
<v Speaker 1>weird and now everyone's kind of feeling that way. But

1:22:30.560 --> 1:22:32.799
<v Speaker 1>the movie too, they're sort of like it's too feminist,

1:22:32.880 --> 1:22:33.840
<v Speaker 1>it's not feminist enough.

1:22:33.920 --> 1:22:34.400
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

1:22:34.479 --> 1:22:37.479
<v Speaker 1>You know, it's getting all the same. All the exact

1:22:37.520 --> 1:22:40.040
<v Speaker 1>same contradictions that she talks about in the movie are

1:22:40.160 --> 1:22:43.080
<v Speaker 1>given to the movie now. And that's very interesting to

1:22:43.120 --> 1:22:45.080
<v Speaker 1>me to see that kind of being extrapolated in the

1:22:45.080 --> 1:22:45.599
<v Speaker 1>real world.

1:22:46.040 --> 1:22:49.040
<v Speaker 2>You know, I've said it before many times, and I'm

1:22:49.080 --> 1:22:53.599
<v Speaker 2>glad that Greta Gerwig and the Barbie cast picked up

1:22:53.600 --> 1:22:56.120
<v Speaker 2>on what I was saying, which is that it's it's

1:22:56.240 --> 1:22:58.599
<v Speaker 2>I think it's challenging for women sometimes in this world

1:22:58.600 --> 1:23:03.360
<v Speaker 2>it's complicated. Maybe even you know, I don't know, may

1:23:04.400 --> 1:23:06.679
<v Speaker 2>maybe a little more complicated than men. I'm not sure.

1:23:07.120 --> 1:23:10.720
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to walk into that, but but you know,

1:23:10.760 --> 1:23:14.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm just glad that other that that women have finally caught.

1:23:13.920 --> 1:23:16.439
<v Speaker 1>Up to what I thought, Oh my god, you were

1:23:16.479 --> 1:23:23.880
<v Speaker 1>gonna challenging me today. Uh No, But I just I

1:23:23.880 --> 1:23:25.920
<v Speaker 1>think that's really interesting. And that's not to say that

1:23:26.000 --> 1:23:30.040
<v Speaker 1>like movies that women do or you know, people put

1:23:30.040 --> 1:23:32.160
<v Speaker 1>a lot more on it. I think they are putting

1:23:32.160 --> 1:23:34.760
<v Speaker 1>a lot on this movie. It was offering a lot,

1:23:35.000 --> 1:23:38.240
<v Speaker 1>so of course, what will people will put their weight

1:23:38.280 --> 1:23:40.200
<v Speaker 1>of their expectations on it. And that's going to make

1:23:40.200 --> 1:23:43.240
<v Speaker 1>a difference. But and people are saying the same about Oppenheimer.

1:23:43.240 --> 1:23:45.160
<v Speaker 1>They want Oppenheimer to do everything. I wanted it to

1:23:45.160 --> 1:23:47.040
<v Speaker 1>have more with the women. You know, people were like,

1:23:47.040 --> 1:23:49.439
<v Speaker 1>why didn't you include the down Winders. There's lots of

1:23:49.479 --> 1:23:52.519
<v Speaker 1>criticism of that movie too, not even enough or whatever, right,

1:23:52.920 --> 1:23:55.679
<v Speaker 1>and so we should probably examine how much we're expecting

1:23:55.720 --> 1:23:59.400
<v Speaker 1>from our entertainment and our dolls and shit.

1:24:00.840 --> 1:24:06.639
<v Speaker 2>I mean, like, imagine, five years ago someone said Mattel

1:24:06.760 --> 1:24:09.680
<v Speaker 2>is gonna produce a Barbie movie and they didn't tell

1:24:09.680 --> 1:24:12.320
<v Speaker 2>you who's directing it or anything like that. We all

1:24:12.400 --> 1:24:16.400
<v Speaker 2>know what trash that movie is gonna be. It's gonna

1:24:16.400 --> 1:24:19.519
<v Speaker 2>they're gonna get the director of snow Dogs to come

1:24:19.560 --> 1:24:24.760
<v Speaker 2>in and do the dopiest, schlockiest, like the jokes are

1:24:24.800 --> 1:24:27.680
<v Speaker 2>gonna be awful, it's gonna be. It's gonna be the

1:24:27.680 --> 1:24:34.960
<v Speaker 2>most stereotypical, just like Minions, but they're Barbies now garbage.

1:24:35.240 --> 1:24:38.720
<v Speaker 2>What we got is kind of unbelievable.

1:24:38.920 --> 1:24:39.640
<v Speaker 1>I agree.

1:24:40.640 --> 1:24:44.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm sort of shocked that it was just on a

1:24:44.840 --> 1:24:49.759
<v Speaker 2>surface level as thoughtful as it was, because A didn't

1:24:49.760 --> 1:24:55.160
<v Speaker 2>have to be and B probably struggled just to be that. Yeah,

1:24:55.360 --> 1:24:57.360
<v Speaker 2>so I'm impressed. Yeah.

1:24:57.760 --> 1:25:00.240
<v Speaker 1>Also shout out to Michael Sarah. Alan was is a

1:25:00.280 --> 1:25:04.640
<v Speaker 1>really fun character. Very much enjoyed Alan. I love you

1:25:04.680 --> 1:25:07.559
<v Speaker 1>go to beat some ass. Yeah, I'm Ken's friend and

1:25:07.600 --> 1:25:09.080
<v Speaker 1>we can share clothes.

1:25:11.800 --> 1:25:14.120
<v Speaker 2>Or whatever. That is perfect part for him.

1:25:14.360 --> 1:25:14.839
<v Speaker 1>Delightful.

1:25:15.000 --> 1:25:17.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, just really good. Similu was really funny too. Yes,

1:25:18.240 --> 1:25:22.840
<v Speaker 2>it was great, and uh yeah, it's just overall. Oh

1:25:22.960 --> 1:25:23.439
<v Speaker 2>it's a ray.

1:25:24.400 --> 1:25:26.240
<v Speaker 1>It's a ray for president.

1:25:26.320 --> 1:25:28.720
<v Speaker 2>We're fans. She was hilarious.

1:25:28.800 --> 1:25:31.000
<v Speaker 1>I did love the kid too.

1:25:31.000 --> 1:25:34.479
<v Speaker 2>I don't know the great Kate McKinnon's I mean Kate

1:25:34.560 --> 1:25:36.640
<v Speaker 2>McKinnon and Greta Gerwig just found out that they were

1:25:36.720 --> 1:25:37.639
<v Speaker 2>roommates in college.

1:25:37.920 --> 1:25:40.800
<v Speaker 1>I know, yeah, I didn't know that. Oh the kid

1:25:40.960 --> 1:25:42.000
<v Speaker 1>right America.

1:25:41.680 --> 1:25:43.840
<v Speaker 2>For first daughter, she was great.

1:25:44.120 --> 1:25:47.000
<v Speaker 1>We'll also say a little funny Easter egg. The daughter

1:25:47.120 --> 1:25:49.559
<v Speaker 1>and her three friends are apparently based on the original

1:25:49.600 --> 1:25:52.479
<v Speaker 1>Brats dolls. Oh so sort of like the next generation

1:25:53.600 --> 1:25:55.120
<v Speaker 1>or whatever. So I thought that was kind of funny,

1:25:55.200 --> 1:25:57.200
<v Speaker 1>and it's true when you look at the four bratstalls

1:25:57.200 --> 1:25:59.920
<v Speaker 1>there at least very similar Like ethnicity is there's one

1:26:00.640 --> 1:26:03.559
<v Speaker 1>one black Brats, one blonde one, you know. Yeah, yeah,

1:26:03.840 --> 1:26:05.240
<v Speaker 1>oh shit, those really are her fore friends.

1:26:05.320 --> 1:26:05.840
<v Speaker 2>That's cute.

1:26:06.120 --> 1:26:08.320
<v Speaker 1>So that was really cute. A lot of little shit

1:26:08.400 --> 1:26:10.320
<v Speaker 1>like that. That's fun to find out about the movie too, Yeah,

1:26:10.400 --> 1:26:11.599
<v Speaker 1>for sure. It just makes it more fun.

1:26:12.160 --> 1:26:15.880
<v Speaker 2>So, folks, I want to know, I want to know.

1:26:15.920 --> 1:26:18.479
<v Speaker 2>We've been talking about Oppenheimer, we've been talking about Barbie,

1:26:18.600 --> 1:26:21.360
<v Speaker 2>and I'm just curious. I want you all to to

1:26:21.600 --> 1:26:23.840
<v Speaker 2>email us. I want you to message us. I want

1:26:23.880 --> 1:26:25.680
<v Speaker 2>you to let us know if you like listen to

1:26:25.760 --> 1:26:28.280
<v Speaker 2>us talk about movies, because we like doing it. And

1:26:28.520 --> 1:26:30.880
<v Speaker 2>I've always been curious if we put that on the air,

1:26:31.280 --> 1:26:33.519
<v Speaker 2>you know what kind of interest, Yeah, Garner from that,

1:26:34.680 --> 1:26:36.360
<v Speaker 2>So I'm s curious. I mean, you know, it's just

1:26:36.479 --> 1:26:40.719
<v Speaker 2>kind of circumstantial that we went into Oppenheimer and Diana

1:26:40.960 --> 1:26:43.760
<v Speaker 2>dove deep into all this research, and now we get

1:26:43.800 --> 1:26:45.519
<v Speaker 2>to talk about the movie as well. So I hope

1:26:45.560 --> 1:26:46.160
<v Speaker 2>you'll enjoyed it.

1:26:46.439 --> 1:26:49.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I hope so too. And all this stuff about

1:26:49.080 --> 1:26:52.679
<v Speaker 1>Oppenheimer's ladies, Oh my god, I was just and as kids,

1:26:53.040 --> 1:26:54.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, they were all of them a little bit

1:26:55.000 --> 1:26:58.800
<v Speaker 1>left to the dust of history, so it was cool

1:26:58.800 --> 1:26:59.960
<v Speaker 1>to dust them off and kind of see what was

1:27:00.120 --> 1:27:00.360
<v Speaker 1>going on.

1:27:00.600 --> 1:27:03.000
<v Speaker 2>Right, right. Careful that dust, don't breathe.

1:27:02.840 --> 1:27:05.160
<v Speaker 1>In because that's radioactive.

1:27:05.240 --> 1:27:09.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thank you so much for sticking with us through this.

1:27:09.439 --> 1:27:12.120
<v Speaker 2>I think I think was really fascinated by by everything

1:27:12.200 --> 1:27:14.479
<v Speaker 2>we've been doing for the last couple hours. So thank

1:27:14.520 --> 1:27:17.479
<v Speaker 2>you for tuning in. Do please reach out give us

1:27:17.520 --> 1:27:19.760
<v Speaker 2>your thoughts. I'm now more than ever. Maybe I just

1:27:19.800 --> 1:27:22.439
<v Speaker 2>want to know what you thought of Oppenheimer the movie

1:27:22.800 --> 1:27:24.519
<v Speaker 2>of the Man of These Women.

1:27:24.760 --> 1:27:26.400
<v Speaker 1>Nuclear nuclear weapons?

1:27:27.000 --> 1:27:29.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, sure, disarmament.

1:27:29.800 --> 1:27:31.360
<v Speaker 1>Would you have dropped the bomb on Japan?

1:27:31.880 --> 1:27:35.760
<v Speaker 2>God? But and then let us know? Yeah, if you

1:27:35.800 --> 1:27:37.960
<v Speaker 2>want to join us for more movie conversations, we'd love to.

1:27:38.120 --> 1:27:40.719
<v Speaker 2>We'd love to wrap you into that, so please shoot

1:27:40.760 --> 1:27:43.120
<v Speaker 2>us an email ridict Romance at gmail dot com.

1:27:43.360 --> 1:27:46.080
<v Speaker 1>We're also on Instagram. I'm at Dianamite.

1:27:45.640 --> 1:27:46.960
<v Speaker 2>Boone and I'm at over Rate.

1:27:47.040 --> 1:27:49.639
<v Speaker 1>It's Eli and the show is atridict Romance.

1:27:49.840 --> 1:27:52.680
<v Speaker 2>Thanks again everybody for tuning in and spending your time

1:27:52.720 --> 1:27:53.960
<v Speaker 2>with us, and we can't wait to hear from you.

1:27:54.080 --> 1:27:56.160
<v Speaker 2>We can't wait to give you another episode next time.

1:27:56.400 --> 1:28:00.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we love you. By bye, solo friends, It's time

1:28:00.479 --> 1:28:05.439
<v Speaker 1>to go. Thanks for listening to our show. Tell your friends, nighbors,

1:28:05.560 --> 1:28:08.599
<v Speaker 1>uncles in dance to listen to our show Ridiculous Well

1:28:08.760 --> 1:28:09.040
<v Speaker 1>Dance