1 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: Please be advised this story contains adult content and graphic language. 2 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: As Daniel woznia X defense attorney, you have said you 3 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: feel you didn't receive a fair trial INNIX case. Can 4 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 1: you give us an example of what you consider an 5 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: unfair ruling that prevented evidence from being introduced? Well, you know, 6 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: one of the examples, certainly is the sam Her evidence 7 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: Samer having killed somebody in his past. Welcome to Sleuth everyone, 8 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: I'm Linda Sawyer. We're here with Scott Sanders Daniel wassnia 9 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: X defense attorney. The trial began in late December of 10 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 1: and then went into the penalty phase early January, and 11 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: did mid January. Would you say of one of the 12 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: most important timing elements that's going on in this case 13 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,119 Speaker 1: right now is that there is a trial taking place 14 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: of Daniel waznia x X fiance Rachel Buffett. Daniel Wozniak 15 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 1: was in fact convicted of the crimes he committed and 16 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: confessed to uh the capital case. The penalty was in 17 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: fact death and he is on death row at this point. 18 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: But from what I've learned over the years I've been 19 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 1: working on this case is that I feel in many 20 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: ways Daniel would have never committed these crimes if he 21 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: had not met Rachel Buffett. So with her trial coming up, 22 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: I really wanted to talk to you about the case 23 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: and the charges and how you feel about the likelihood 24 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: that there might be a conviction here, and so if 25 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: we could go over these uh in more detail, I'd 26 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: appreciate it. So the first felony charge involves Rachel Buffett 27 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: lying to police about a fictitious man in a black hat, 28 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: and the basis for that charge something I know that 29 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: you in court spoke about with Judge Connolly regarding an 30 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: issue where you felt Prosecutor Matt Murphy was in fact 31 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 1: committing a double argument, if you will, about the same person. 32 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: And you can't move from one court room and say 33 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: one thing and move to another court and would say another. 34 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: Let's talk about that. Well, right, there's there's case law 35 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: out there that talks about the fact that you can't 36 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: make inconsistent arguments in two different cases. And so our 37 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,679 Speaker 1: argument to Judge Connley when we came back after the 38 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 1: verdict was to say, that's precisely what took place was 39 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: that he made arguments about Rachel Buffett, and the preliminary 40 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: hearing and Miss Buffett's case that were vastly different from 41 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: what he was arguing in um Mr wazni next case. 42 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: So let's just tell listeners the preliminary hearing for Rachel 43 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: Buffett was on December and in essence, that was where 44 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: Matt Murphy was trying to get an indictment on accessory 45 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: after the fact. So you're saying, in that particular hearing, 46 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: that's where Mr Murphy really painted a picture of her guilt, right, 47 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 1: I mean, he's he's bringing home both in terms of 48 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: how he presents the witnesses at the preliminary hearing and 49 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: then in terms of argument to Judge McKenna, who's the 50 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: judge hearing about her responsibility, and he's not only saying 51 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: that she's responsible as an accessory, but actually continually um 52 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: suggesting that she's responsible for something more. But yeah, he 53 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: very much is trying to convince the judge that she 54 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: should go to trial because she's aware of the crime 55 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: and she's trying to help um Dania wasna but at 56 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: the same time always hinting that there's something more. So 57 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: do you feel like his purpose and his intent was 58 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: to convince the judge that perhaps she was more involved 59 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: than just an accessory. But I think he I think 60 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: he believes that. I don't that's that's part of it. 61 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: It's not so much that he was just playing lawyer there. 62 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I think Matt Murphy absolutely believed what he 63 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: was saying in the preliminary hearing, that she was more involved, 64 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: that she had absolute knowledge before the death of MS. Kiboshi. 65 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 1: I think that's what he believes. I think that's what 66 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 1: he argued. He argued very passionately about it. He cited 67 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: all sorts of information um that he thought was supportive 68 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: of it. So I don't think it was an act. 69 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: I don't think it was just to get her over 70 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: to a trial. I think that's what he believes. I think, um, 71 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 1: I think he has for a long long time. And 72 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 1: Matt Murphy was quite convincing in Rachel Buffett's preliminary hearing 73 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 1: because the judge said, you have enough to go to trial. Yeah, 74 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,799 Speaker 1: I mean, he's he's pointing to all of these incidents, 75 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: but this one in particular, the one he's looking at, 76 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: is are these contacts that take place shortly after the 77 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: first crime that they're going back. They're looking at the 78 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: self phone. He's making this point again and again to 79 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: the judge that it is unbelievable that Rachel Buffett was 80 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: unaware of this introduction into their household of a new 81 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,359 Speaker 1: cell phone. And he talks about the fact that you know, 82 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: these are folks that are struggling economically, that their their 83 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: paycheck to paycheck, and here he is sitting up sitting 84 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: with her um and he suddenly has a new cell phone. 85 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: And the notion that he would that she'd be unaware 86 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 1: of that is unreasonable. Even more so, she talks to police. 87 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 1: It was I think March of when police come to 88 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: issue her a subpoena. She tells police and that in 89 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 1: that exchange that she admits that she saw Daniel sitting 90 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: next to her on the couch while he was texting 91 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: Julie Kibi she to lure her to Sam's apartment that night. 92 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: That she admits that he was on a totally different phone, 93 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 1: that he was on a more archaic flip phone versus 94 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 1: his fancy new phone that he had um that obviously 95 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 1: was way more advanced technologically. So she admits the police 96 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 1: she saw him on a different phone, which turns out 97 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 1: to be Sam's phone, and he argues about it compellingly. 98 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: I mean he that probably was a big argument that 99 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: allowed that case to proceed, a key argument that allowed 100 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: it to proceed to trial. About the preliminary the preliminary hearing, 101 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: he's very much focused on the phone and the significance 102 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: and it being absolutely unbelievable that she was unaware of that, 103 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: and that she wouldn't have asked questions and things wouldn't 104 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: have followed from that. Earlier today, I learned a new 105 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: piece of evidence that was shared to me in an interview. 106 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 1: I will aeron full on a future episode that Rachel 107 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: Buffett had actually told a gentleman by the name of 108 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: Daniel hulk Yard, who was a friend of Dan Wisnia's 109 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 1: and would visit him often when he was waiting for 110 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: his trial in Men's County Jail. She said to Daniel 111 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:55,919 Speaker 1: al Yard that she had sent a Facebook message to 112 00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:00,840 Speaker 1: Julie Kabuishi at eleven ten that night, the night that 113 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:04,919 Speaker 1: she was murdered, basically saying we'll get together after the 114 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: wedding and we'll catch up and we'll share some summer 115 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: sunshine together at the pool. And she told Daniel Hulkyard 116 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: that Daniel Wozniak was standing right behind her when she 117 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: sent that email, and well, that email was part of 118 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: you know, that email was part of the package of evidence. 119 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: And then the question just became and it was an 120 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: important one. You know, where were people located at the time. 121 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: And again, it was a very oddly timed email that 122 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: she was sending. And what Daniel Hulkyard seems to be 123 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: insinuating is because Rachel slipped and told him that Dan 124 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: Wozniak was over her shoulder when she sent this message 125 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: to Julie. So Daniel Hulkyard suggests that Dan and Rachel 126 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:54,239 Speaker 1: must have been in cahoots together. Yet Rachel never told 127 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: police Dan was by her side. She said she was 128 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: in bed alone on her laptop when she sent that message. 129 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: I thought that was a very interesting, telling piece of 130 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: evidence that I hadn't learned before today. Daniel Hulkyard shares 131 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: with us that moment Rachel told me in no certain terms, 132 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: you know, the night that that lady was killed, I 133 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: was on an email to her and I felt so 134 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: suspicious and scared because Daniel was standing right behind me, 135 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: and I about dropped my job. Linda, I said, you 136 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: what she Yeah, that was so speaking I looked at 137 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: her mom, and her mom just clammed up real quickly, 138 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 1: and I told her in our little talk, I said, 139 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 1: you had no idea. It was going why no idea? 140 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: You had no idea? And in three sentences later she 141 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: says what she said, No, only think she knew what 142 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 1: she said. It was basically an alibi email, is how 143 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 1: I felt when I read it, both exactly. But then 144 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: when she told me that I haven't told anybody illegal 145 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: world what I just told you about that conversation. I haven't, 146 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: and I will tell you because I know what you 147 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: want to do with this the truth behind us. And 148 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: remember Ray, she was sending this message to Julie on 149 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 1: her Facebook at eleven ten, Friday night of the murders. 150 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: It makes you wonder was this an alibi message to Julie? 151 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: I mean, it was a really nice message, and could 152 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: one possibly imagine that someone would be diabolical enough to 153 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: send such a sweet message and then fifty minutes later 154 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: be part of a plan to murder Julie. Well, it's interesting, 155 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, without talking to him directly and 156 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 1: hearing it on, but it certainly makes sense, It certainly 157 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 1: fits sort of we know that this email went out 158 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: this unusual, unusually timed email. So here adds another element 159 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:46,679 Speaker 1: that potentially she's acknowledge to someone else. Said Dan's near 160 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: by at the time. So I want to be clear 161 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: with our listeners what you meant when you uh spoke 162 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: in court about this double argument of Matt Murphy's the 163 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 1: preliminary here r he really framed her as not only 164 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,439 Speaker 1: an accessory, but in fact perhaps an accomplice in these murders. 165 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: And he was very passionate and and and very convincing 166 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: in his argument about her role, which we believe he 167 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: believes as well as the customers of police. But then 168 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: in the actual trial of Daniel Wasniac, he sort of 169 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: shifted quite a bit, right, And so let's talk about 170 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: that shift and and how he presented Rachel to the jurors. 171 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: We can go into more about what happens to the trial, 172 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: but obviously it's kind of a general theme at trial. 173 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:37,199 Speaker 1: Mr Murphy wants to diminish her responsibility and at every 174 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: turn from the beginning of the trial he is saying 175 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: things in his opening statement like Daniel Wasnac allied to 176 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: Rachel Buffett, and he's putting that in a group of victims. 177 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: He you know, he puts his brother in that list. 178 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: So he wants to separate Rachel Buffett and other people 179 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: from any level of culpability because I think quite obviously 180 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 1: he thinks the more more culpable um Rachel Buffett is, 181 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 1: the less likely he is to get a death verdict. 182 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: And I think that's kind of at the core of it. 183 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: He wants the death penalty, and I you know, obviously 184 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: our argument is that he wanted it way too much, 185 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 1: and he did some things that didn't match with what 186 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: he was doing at the preliminary herring. And you know, 187 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: just for people who don't know how preliminary herring is, 188 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 1: where it's like a grand jury proceeding, except you're not 189 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:25,719 Speaker 1: speaking to a group of members of the public. You're 190 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: speaking to a single judge who's making that call. And 191 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: that's what's happening in Rachel Buffett's case. She's she's before 192 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:35,599 Speaker 1: a judge named Judge mckeeno, um well respected judge in 193 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: the community. And Judge mckeino is asking questions at some 194 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: point about the case. I mean, he's very thoughtful and 195 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:45,319 Speaker 1: he's asking he's kind of pressing and probing about why 196 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:49,319 Speaker 1: she had more responsibility. So he comes back to the 197 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: subject of Rachel Buffett and why she's responsible, and he's 198 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: telling Judge mckinna, we have a situation here where these 199 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: people are living together, they're engaged to be married, they're 200 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 1: both employed, they have the same financial pressures, they're both 201 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 1: in the process of eviction. They've been described a very 202 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: various friends as being very close there together all the time. 203 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 1: He's building the argument for accessory, but it also sounds 204 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 1: very much like the argument for murder if he was 205 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 1: building an argument for accomplice or a partner in the 206 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: planning and the execution. Accomplice is the equivalent of a 207 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: murder charge, right, That's right, So you don't have to 208 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: be the person who strikes the deathblow. If you assist 209 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: in some way to have that crime take place, you're 210 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: treated the same way under the law. So to the 211 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: extent as we argued that Rachel Buffett was reasonably taking 212 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: steps that would have encouraged Dan, pushed Dan to act 213 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: at a time when he didn't want to. You know, 214 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: we argue, obviously in terms of the second crime, that 215 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: he's despondent before that and she doesn't really care and 216 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 1: she's pushing, and that's what logic says. So when I'm 217 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 1: making closing argument and I'm actually making this argument that 218 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 1: prosecution agrees with me, and he's objecting to it and 219 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: stating that I'm misstating his argument, and he was right. 220 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 1: I was misstating his argument in my case because I 221 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: was stating his argument in Rachel Buffet's case right here. 222 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: And so that's the problem that's not supposed to happen. 223 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: You don't get to flip around because you like to 224 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: have the death penalty on a man. The rules are 225 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: the rules, and the rules are the rules, and it's 226 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: just you know, that rule is based in common sense 227 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: logic about what's right. And let's give our listeners a 228 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: clear sense of just how he shifted in the trial 229 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: of Daniel Waznac, how he was portraying her in that trial. Well, 230 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: you know, it was pretty stunning. I mean, here we 231 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: are in the trial and he is presenting her as 232 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: a victim. One of the most dramatic things that he 233 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 1: did was to take his argument about what took place 234 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,679 Speaker 1: outside the residents. So let me take the listeners through 235 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: that moment just so they understand the scene when Detective 236 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: Everett shows up in front of Rachel's brother no A 237 00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: Buffet's apartment. When he walks in, he doesn't realize it's 238 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: in a partment. He thinks at the storefront. He walks 239 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: in and there's Daniel sitting on the couch and Daniel 240 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: asks can we please move outside to to talk? And 241 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: at that point, Daniel's telling the story about how the 242 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: last person he saw Sam Hair with was this guy 243 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: in a black hat. Later that night, Kasta Masa police 244 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: arrest Dan Wazniak for accessory to murder because they still 245 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: believe Dan is hiding and helping Sam Hair. So let's 246 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: listen now as Daniel is questioned by detectives and hear 247 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: what Daniel has to say about the mysterious man in 248 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: the black hat. I feared that I was the last 249 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: person to see him. So what I had told everyone 250 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: was because the last person even known that I knew 251 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: that I was with Sam to my wife, and the 252 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: last time that she saw and I saw was two 253 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: three o'clock on Friday, Okay, So I went to live 254 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: with that story, and then I made up this mystery 255 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: person just holding that that would you know, take the 256 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: plane off me? So I I mean of this guy 257 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: with a white white guy scuffled on a black baseball cap, 258 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: that he doesn't exist. That's a line, that's a life. 259 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: I apologize for that. He does admit to police that 260 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: he made up that man. He was an imaginary person. 261 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: So go back to that Wednesday, before he's arrested for anything, 262 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: and Rachel pops out of the apartment and walks over 263 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: to the detective ends to Daniel, and she repeats the 264 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: same story that Daniel was telling them at the time. 265 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: And so that's what Matt Murphy is referring to, right right, 266 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: And you have to it's I mean, I laugh, but 267 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: it's none of it's funny because you think about what 268 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: he then turns around and does in our trial. He 269 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: then puts on detective effort and he presents essentially the defense. 270 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: And this is fast forward. Now we're in the trial 271 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: of Daniel wast and here that comes Matt Murphy, and 272 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: he wants this event viewed completely differently. In fact, if 273 00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: you look at what he's doing, he's saying, we're being 274 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 1: unfair to Rachel Buffett to draw the same interpretation that 275 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: he argued to Judge mckeow. Do you remember the line. 276 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: He said. He said, maybe she was leaning in in 277 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: the door and she was overhearing what Daniel said, so 278 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: she just repeated what her fiance was saying to police. 279 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: That is what Matt Murphy said to the jurors, and 280 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: he did, and he set that up through questioning what Everard? 281 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: He asked Everett, he being Murphy, asked Everard, and during 282 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: your interview with her, I believe you testified she echoed 283 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: the same lie for back lack of a better term, 284 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: that there was a third individual with Mr Wozniak and 285 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: Mr Her on the day that Mr Her went missing. Right. Answer, yes, 286 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: this is Everett saying yes. So how far outside the 287 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: door of the residence do you think you were when 288 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: you engaged in that conversation with Daniel Wozniak? Answer again, Everett, 289 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: maybe five or six feet? Question? Okay, so big picture. Now, 290 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: as an investigator and you get a potential suspect, you 291 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: step outside and Daniel Wasnick tells you the story, including 292 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: the lie about the third individual. Yes, and then a 293 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: few minutes later Rachel comes out and tells you the 294 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: same lie. That's the question. Ever says, Yes. Now, as 295 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 1: a police officer, it could be that Rachel has been 296 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 1: involved in this conspiracy, maybe even planned the whole thing, 297 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 1: and maybe this whole murder. That's one possibility, or that's 298 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: one realm of possibility. Answer yes, Or it could be 299 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 1: that she was listening on the other side of the door, right, Yes, 300 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: it could have been that sort either way, right under 301 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: under that piece of evidence, yes, Murphy says to Everett, 302 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: you're familiar with the term tie goes to the runner. 303 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: So here you have him suggesting that, in fact, the 304 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: exact same argument that he made at the preliminary hearing 305 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 1: is faulty. He's he's saying that what we argued to 306 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 1: Judge mckeeno really wasn't fair because the tie should go 307 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,719 Speaker 1: to the runner and he doesn't end it there. He says, So, 308 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:06,640 Speaker 1: in other words, when you have two pieces of evidence, 309 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: one that points toward innocence and one that points toward guilt. 310 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 1: As a police officer, you've got to kind of give 311 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: the benefit of the doubt, right, answer Everett. Yes, So 312 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 1: you can imagine a sitting in the courtroom knowing what 313 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: happened in the prior hearing and realizing this is how 314 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: far he's going to go. Now they're not in a 315 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: plot together everything that I just talked about in terms 316 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 1: of um, what they pressed Judge mckeeno to believes earlier 317 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: argument that you have to believe this. This is the 318 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,719 Speaker 1: only logical interpretation that they're in a he says, this 319 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: is our cleanest argument. Obviously they plotted this. He calls 320 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: it a plot. Now, it's not a plot. Now. It 321 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: may have just been a very good listener who's sitting 322 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 1: at the door who then decided, Okay, I'm going to 323 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: match the stories to help my um my loved one 324 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: get out of harm's way. Um. But nothing in terms 325 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:03,199 Speaker 1: of an intention to do anything further or that she 326 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: had knowledge before. That's the really bad thing, right. He's saying, Look, 327 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 1: she really may not have had any knowledge of this 328 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 1: crime before. You cannot reconcile that. There's no way you 329 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 1: can reconcile that with what he did at the preliminary hearing. UM. 330 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: In the Buffet case, it's similar to Matt Murphy's statements 331 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: that he's made in the past regarding Rachel Buffett, where 332 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,640 Speaker 1: he said she just might have to be considered collateral damage. Yeah, 333 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 1: but as horrifying as it is, and it is, it's 334 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: exactly what took place here. He decided, Look, Rachel Buffett 335 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,679 Speaker 1: is looking at a few years in prison on a 336 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: good day for them. Does he want any chance, just 337 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: even the slimmest chance of reducing the possibility that he 338 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 1: gets a death verdict. So he's sitting here worried that 339 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 1: if the jury believes that's somehow Rachel Buffett may have 340 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: been involved and is not going to be held responsible 341 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,640 Speaker 1: for the higher crime, which we argue she was involved 342 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 1: with murder, which is murder. He thinks jury may go 343 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: this isn't quite fair. So what does he do? He 344 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: pushes back on any notion, even a semblance of a 345 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: of a notion that it's fair. We're the ones who 346 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: are being unfair. Now, that's the amazing thing in the trial. 347 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,239 Speaker 1: We're the unfair ones because we're suggesting Rachel Buffint may 348 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,439 Speaker 1: have more involvement, which is exactly what he said at 349 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 1: the preliminary hearing. Yeah, you're just reiterating what he said 350 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 1: earlier in at her preliminary hearing. But he doesn't like 351 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 1: those arguments anymore because those arguments are the type of 352 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: arguments that keeps someone from getting death. If all of 353 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: a sudden, the jury if we both spoke the same way, 354 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 1: and that closing. What if he had said exactly what 355 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: he had said in that preliminary hearing, how powerful that 356 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: would have been. Mr Sanders is right. All of these 357 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 1: things that he's saying are absolutely right. She wasn't coincidentally 358 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: sitting next to the door. She did know everything, She 359 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 1: did have the phone in sight, she knew about the phone, 360 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: and all of this happened an earlier point. He knows 361 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: that verdict may have turned out differently. So it's Rachel's 362 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: own words, it's her lies that are the blueprint to 363 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,880 Speaker 1: the truth. Rachel Buffett tells the Coast of Masa police 364 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,919 Speaker 1: that when Dan came back with the first installment of 365 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: money that they owed Chris Williams for helping them stave 366 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,880 Speaker 1: off the eviction. Rachel tells police that the Friday afternoon 367 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: of the murders, Daniel came back with the four dollars 368 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: and he possibly gave it to Sam or the loan 369 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: Sharks outside their apartment, but she was sitting there at 370 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: the table. Chris Williams tells me in an interview that 371 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 1: she was right there when Dan gave Chris Williams the money. 372 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: In fact, Chris Williams tells me that he specifically asked 373 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: them if they had any food money, and Dan said, 374 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: that's all we have, pointing to the money that he 375 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 1: just handed to him, and so Chris decides to give 376 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: them a twenty, passes that twenty across the table so 377 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,880 Speaker 1: that they had some food money. He left that apartment 378 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: so quickly. There was just this weird energy, this this 379 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,719 Speaker 1: darkness that was sort of looming in the apartment. So 380 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: he said he couldn't get out of there fast enough 381 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,479 Speaker 1: and then he that he's on a call with Rachel 382 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: within minutes, and she's trying to lure him back, telling 383 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: him that he dropped a twenty, and at that point, 384 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 1: he said, is this about the money, because I wanted 385 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: you to have that for food? Is is this about 386 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: the money that you want me to come back to 387 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 1: talk to you about? And she said, no, it's something 388 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: else I need to talk to you about. And it 389 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: was then that he said every bone in his body 390 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: just shook because he had no idea at that point 391 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,639 Speaker 1: why she wanted him there, but she he just didn't 392 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: have a good feeling about it. So we're Rachel and 393 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: Dan perhaps worried because Chris Williams was the only witness 394 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: who saw Dan leave alone with Sam, because there really 395 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: was no third person in a black hat. One of 396 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: the other statements that Matt Murphy made to jurors during 397 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: Dan Wozniak's trial was his portrayal of Rachel Buffett as 398 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 1: almost a hero in this case, because if it wasn't 399 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: for her, he says, they wouldn't have had this cornucopia 400 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: of evidence to accuse and convict Daniel for these murders, 401 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,159 Speaker 1: and that just wasn't true. Violet Randolph, who was a 402 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: neighbor and a friend who actually Rachel ended up living 403 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: with for quite some time after the murders, she was 404 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: in that car and when they left the Waznia home, 405 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 1: after Rachel came and spoke to Darryl Wosnia, Daniel's father, 406 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: she told him that he was arrested and tried to 407 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,920 Speaker 1: take him through what had happened. They left there, and 408 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 1: Tim Wozniak and Lisa Goldge, his girlfriend at the time, 409 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,160 Speaker 1: showed up and Rachel went over to the car and 410 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: he's sharing with her that he has gone and he 411 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: has all this other evidence, and she's like putting her 412 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: hands up on her ears like I don't want to 413 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 1: hear this whatever, and when she got back into the car, 414 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 1: Violet basically said, like, what's going on? He has evidence? 415 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: She said yes, he said he has a gone and 416 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 1: she said, you're going to bring that to police, right 417 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,439 Speaker 1: and Rachel said no, and Violet said, if you don't, 418 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 1: I'm going to because that gun is going to disappear. 419 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: And she picked up her cell phone as she tells me, 420 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,679 Speaker 1: and she calls her mother to get Jose Morales's number, 421 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: at which point that's the very moment that Dan calls 422 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 1: in from the holding cell and I just talked to him, 423 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,400 Speaker 1: and I need to make a phone called the detective. 424 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:50,639 Speaker 1: Now what Cautin's involved, because I need to call the 425 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 1: detective first because I need to call him and by 426 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: him now before they catch me on its recording device, 427 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: because it looks like I'm not trying to tell him 428 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: right away. Tim says he has evidence with them, or 429 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 1: or he knew where it was or something. Then I'm doomed. 430 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:19,400 Speaker 1: What yeah, do you know that Tim had some evidence? Scott, 431 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: what did you think about the jailhouse calls between Dan 432 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: and Rachel when you heard them for the first time? 433 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: She's not expecting this call, right and as the call goes, 434 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 1: here comes Dan and he's worried. Oh god, oh god, 435 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: oh god. Okay, well this is this is ridiculous and 436 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: I have to go tell the detective the truth. Um, come, 437 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: come do kick up only to me so far, and 438 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: it was in casting. I said, I'm going to police 439 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 1: station right now. Danny's in arrested. He starts for being 440 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: out and it's really frantic and he said something and 441 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 1: something slips that he had evidence. So I have to 442 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: I don't, don't, don't, don't, no, Rabe, I'm going to 443 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:13,439 Speaker 1: do it. I needed to pull over to the art 444 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:20,879 Speaker 1: second get the phone number for the infective out what 445 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:28,399 Speaker 1: you realize they recording the song conversation. Anyways, if you 446 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,360 Speaker 1: look at what she's doing, she's not planning. When she's 447 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: driving down the street. She is not planning to call 448 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 1: the police. There's no chance in the world. And then 449 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:42,120 Speaker 1: she realizes Dan is unraveling and we're on a recorded 450 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 1: conversation and she has this interesting moment where she says, 451 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 1: I need to call the detective right now. What do 452 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: you mean didn't you need to call the detective the 453 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: moment you took this evidence so that that's one of 454 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:54,719 Speaker 1: the tells. There's about five or six tells in there. 455 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: If you look at it closely, you can see she 456 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: was hoping just to do whatever she was gonna do. Well, 457 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: it's a performance for Violet too. I mean, the girl 458 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 1: was sitting in the passenger seat saying to Rachel, if 459 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,199 Speaker 1: you don't call detective Morales, I will, that's right. And 460 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: so she's driving. All of a sudden, Dan is doing 461 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 1: what he's doing, and she needs to perform for Violet. 462 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: She needs to perform for what she knows. Are the 463 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 1: police listening and she points that out. Dan, You're an idiot. 464 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: The police are listening to this conversation, and I've got 465 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:30,680 Speaker 1: to make sure I assist the police. Well, I don't 466 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 1: know what that is. I thought it was a murder weapon. 467 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,439 Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about other evidence. I 468 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 1: don't know what him how decides that Dame said he 469 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 1: had a murder weapon? You realize the recording the song conversation. Anyways, 470 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: I need to call the detective first, because I need 471 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 1: to call him and by him no before they catch 472 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,679 Speaker 1: me on its recording device, because it looks like I'm 473 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 1: not trying to tell him right away, and her mind 474 00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: is twirling, going, if I don't say this soon, I'm 475 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: going to be in big trouble. So that's exactly what 476 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,159 Speaker 1: Tim told me. So I'm going to go tell the 477 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: detective now. So so she's doing this in steps because 478 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: her brain is flying. She's saying to herself, they're going 479 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: to know in a millisecond. And I'm deeply involved in this. 480 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: So I'm so I better say something. Okay, what do 481 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:21,879 Speaker 1: you want me to do? I don't want you to 482 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,120 Speaker 1: tell the detective of anything, and I don't want them 483 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: involved up. I mean now I'm no, I'm dead. Now 484 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: I'm really dead. Maybe you are already dead when you 485 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: deconstructed and kind of look at it closely, you can 486 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: see what she's doing. And she does this kind of throughout. 487 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: You know, she's trying to reel Dan back even after 488 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: he says I did it. There's no way back. They're 489 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: thinking that you pre meditated a murder of both of 490 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: your friends because you were telling me beforehand that you 491 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: had a class that you knew you didn't have. You're 492 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: already making an excuse in an alibi. Do you see 493 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: what I'm saying? Like I'm done I'm done. I'm really done. 494 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: Um what I was trying to cover it up and 495 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: now I'm going away for life. It necessarily means that 496 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: when that call took place on the she knew he 497 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: was involved, She was plotting with him. It means the 498 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 1: whole call is a lie. It's well done. It's a 499 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: kind of an amateurish level, right, you know, kind of 500 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 1: low level theater. Why on earth would you try and 501 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: cover for him? We needed the money? No, we never 502 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: need money. You need to be good people and just 503 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 1: have each other. O. Sorry, it's well done for a minute, 504 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: unless you look at it pretty closely. And Murphy knows 505 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: that that phone call had to be completely fabricated. Maybe 506 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: when did when did we fall asleep last night? And 507 00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: where were you? When did you leave lust or not? 508 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: Last night? That Friday night? Friday night? We got home 509 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: probably around I don't know, midnight? Yeah, remember that. What 510 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: did we do? Did anyone come over? I don't remember? 511 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: Or did we just crash? Did eye craft? We crapwer together? Uh? Huh? 512 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: Family guy? And then in black wait wait where I 513 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: can't we're walking then black and I can hardly hear 514 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: you on this Funday spak a little bit louder. What 515 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: about Black and Family guy? Okay? That night? Okay, so 516 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 1: when did you go over and meet Sam? And when 517 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: did you help Sam? Saturday morning? Saturday morning? She is 518 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: pretending as she's going as if she knows nothing, And 519 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: then when Dan Wozniak switches and says, I've got to 520 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: tell you the truth about what happened. You can hear 521 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: it and you can kind of hear what she's doing. 522 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 1: And at the very end of that tape, she tries 523 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: to pull him back one last time. Are you sure 524 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: you're not taking the blame for someone else? She tries 525 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: to recover him from himself. Are you trying to cover 526 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 1: for somebody? Me? Um, listen to me. I'm gonna go 527 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 1: do something right now, and you're not gonna see me 528 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 1: for the rest of your life. Do you understand that? No? No, 529 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: I have to tell the truth on what I did. 530 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: And I think you now know what it is and 531 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: it's bad. Imagine the word and that's what I did. 532 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: H Do you want to tell me first or are 533 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 1: you gonna go tell them? If you tell them, can 534 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: you tell me back and tell me? To my faith? 535 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: Can you can? You can probably tell them first? To 536 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 1: come down to position right now. Yes, yes, I'm coming 537 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 1: down to the station right now. You should buy them first. 538 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: But I want to hear it from you. It's her though. 539 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: I mean, you talk about who's worse. There. He's going, 540 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 1: I'm done. I'm you know, I'm not. There's no coming 541 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 1: back from this. And she's thinking to herself, if you 542 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 1: don't come back from this, you may take us both down. 543 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: That's what she's doing very clearly. And I'm not saying 544 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: anything other than what Matt Murphy would have said in 545 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 1: two thousand and twelve in the preliminary hearing. We would 546 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: have sounded almost identical. We just don't now because in 547 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 1: two thousand and sixteen he wanted a death verdict very badly, 548 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: so he decided it was okay to switch his theories. 549 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: That's what he did. It was surprising how Matt Murphy 550 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: characterized Rachel Buffett during Dan Was the next trial. Yes, 551 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 1: but only because you knew more. If you don't know more, 552 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: and I'm making arguments that are being stopped and and 553 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: you're right right, you don't you don't know. I don't 554 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: blame the jury for not getting what he was doing 555 00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 1: to them and the rest of the media didn't have 556 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 1: a word to say about it because I just didn't 557 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 1: know that. And this is, you know, this is the 558 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 1: difficulty sometimes in a trial. It's you've got to have 559 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 1: so much information to really get it. And really what 560 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: he was starting to do there was kind of beyond 561 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: the pale. It wasn't something that even anybody would envision 562 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: and think back at the time, what else, what was 563 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: he's saying before? But you know, after the trial, we 564 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 1: get a chance to go to the judge and we 565 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: did our motion and and tell us about his ruling 566 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: and how you felt about it. Well, you know, the 567 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 1: ruling is only memorable to the extent we lost. I 568 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 1: don't remember what he said specifically, and I don't think 569 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 1: he committed a lot of writing to it, other than 570 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 1: to say, um, we lose. And so I'm not going 571 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: to tell you that it's surprising that we lost. And 572 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that because I think we should have lost. 573 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 1: We shouldn't have. I just we didn't have a lot 574 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 1: of success and litigation in that courtroom. We weren't successful here. 575 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: And you know, I've second guessed all sorts of things. 576 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: That's just the nature of the beast but I'm also 577 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 1: still angry because there wasn't complete truth in that courtroom. 578 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: I don't sit here trusting that we've gotten everything. There's 579 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: no reason to. They don't have a history of disclosure, 580 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: and it's not going to surprise me if ten years, 581 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,440 Speaker 1: twenty years down the road something gets found out in 582 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 1: addition to all the things you've found out, And that's 583 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: that's a big problem. That's had a big problem with 584 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: this process here. It's just I have no faith whatsoever 585 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,360 Speaker 1: the tricks that were pulled here. The notion like I 586 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: found all of the tricks, I don't think so I 587 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:26,840 Speaker 1: don't have I don't know that kind of faith in myself. 588 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: You know. The notion that Rachel Buffett was protecting him 589 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 1: is insanity, and that this was her goal. I can't 590 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 1: even believe someone's going to say that in the courtroom 591 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:39,839 Speaker 1: just because it's going to help them get a win. 592 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 1: None of this has to do with protecting Dan Wasnext. 593 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,480 Speaker 1: She's done with Dan Wasney. She thinks Dan Wasny next time. 594 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 1: This is about protecting her, and it makes sense. I 595 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,880 Speaker 1: remember that you revealed in court a conversation that Rachel 596 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 1: had with police during those early morning hours after police 597 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 1: arrested Dan. They had brought her in for questioning. It 598 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:06,239 Speaker 1: was there she mentions how he really wasn't a great lover, 599 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: and she wasn't over the moon about him, and she 600 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 1: even said he wasn't well endowed down below. She's saying 601 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 1: all these things, and she's supposed to marry this guy 602 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 1: that next day. It just seemed like she was done 603 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: with him. Then. I mean that there's a level of 604 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: cruelty in that. I mean, it's not the cruelty obviously, 605 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 1: you know. I I want to make it clear. I 606 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 1: mean I represented Dan and then believe very deeply that 607 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 1: he should not have gotten a death penalty. You know, 608 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 1: I don't think it was fair. I don't think the 609 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 1: trial was fair. I don't think anything about this process 610 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,359 Speaker 1: was fair whatsoever. And I don't think we have all 611 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,440 Speaker 1: the evidence in the case. Why do you feel Daniel 612 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 1: Woznia didn't deserve the death penalty? Well, look at the 613 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:51,800 Speaker 1: first place, any pursuit of death should start with his fairness. 614 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 1: Just should be a fair process. You shouldn't have a 615 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 1: prosecutor arguing two different theories to get death all. I mean, 616 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,360 Speaker 1: I have a lot of adentury issues, things that I 617 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 1: think should have come in his evidence. But there are 618 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 1: a lot of things that I thought, UM made this 619 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 1: whole process unfair. Are you referring to Sam's past? Um, 620 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:15,879 Speaker 1: that's that's one of them. UM, for our listeners, Sam 621 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 1: Hair at one point in his life was charged with 622 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,720 Speaker 1: murder and he was acquitted. I think his defense lawyer 623 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,879 Speaker 1: did a great job and they were able to keep 624 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 1: out all of the key evidence and kind of a 625 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 1: unique theory and should be commended for that. But in 626 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 1: the standard that's used in most cases, and then when 627 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,399 Speaker 1: I think is a legal standard, once the prosecutor took 628 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 1: certain steps in our litigation, we should have had the 629 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,960 Speaker 1: right to introduce that evidence. And the way they the 630 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,359 Speaker 1: prosecution chose to kind of present Mr her which they 631 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: didn't have to do. They went further and kind of 632 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 1: presenting him as a solid citizen. We had the right 633 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 1: to answer that. But there's all sorts of other places, 634 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,760 Speaker 1: including you know, more what we've been focusing on today. 635 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:00,759 Speaker 1: You know, if I look at all of that, I 636 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,799 Speaker 1: keep coming back to the same spot too often. In 637 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,719 Speaker 1: this county, evidence hasn't been turned over, and UM, I 638 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 1: look at this and wondering what else wasn't turned over, 639 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,000 Speaker 1: and don't I think it's reasonable. If you have a 640 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,799 Speaker 1: prosecutor that's making the type of arguments he's making, why 641 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,799 Speaker 1: on earth would I believe he It's it's beyond him 642 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:23,319 Speaker 1: to just keep some evidence that he thinks Um might 643 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,439 Speaker 1: be beneficial to us. And what I know, you talked 644 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:30,239 Speaker 1: about how you felt for the Daniel Wozniak trial. You 645 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,920 Speaker 1: felt that in many cases it wasn't a fair trial. 646 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:38,320 Speaker 1: What was the most egregious example of where you thought 647 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 1: you did not get a fair break? Well, you know, 648 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,040 Speaker 1: one of the examples, certainly is the sam Her evidence. 649 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:49,880 Speaker 1: I mean we thought that we The interesting thing was 650 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,759 Speaker 1: we didn't anticipate getting into that because we thought the 651 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:56,319 Speaker 1: prosecutor was going to actually limit himself. And you can 652 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 1: do that because basically what the prosecutor's option is just 653 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,520 Speaker 1: to put on evidence about his impact on human lives. 654 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:04,600 Speaker 1: So you could put on people and talk about how 655 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 1: sad it was, and that wouldn't have allowed us, arguably 656 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,400 Speaker 1: to get into this next spot, which is Um Samer 657 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:17,720 Speaker 1: having killed somebody in his past charged with it. Well, 658 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:22,279 Speaker 1: I mean he's charged with that crime. I mean he was, 659 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,320 Speaker 1: he was charged. He was acquitted and I and I 660 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,680 Speaker 1: appreciate the process, but I don't. Yes, I hope so yeah. 661 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 1: I mean, I appreciate the process, but I don't. I 662 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,359 Speaker 1: don't agree that he didn't kill you know, I'm just 663 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:36,880 Speaker 1: the evidence doesn't point to that. It's just the evidence 664 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 1: all got kept back. I mean, he confessed in statements, 665 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,640 Speaker 1: the statements just didn't get introduced. I know that this 666 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 1: was an important point for Scott that he did not win. 667 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:54,360 Speaker 1: The argument of introducing Sam's passed in the Dan Wozniak trial, 668 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:59,399 Speaker 1: and although the jurors didn't have a chance to hear 669 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 1: the facts, I thought my listeners deserved to know what 670 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 1: happened in Sam's past when he was in fact charged 671 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,560 Speaker 1: with murder, and so I spoke at length with retired 672 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:14,840 Speaker 1: Sergeant Gilbert Anderson, who was the lead detective on Sam's 673 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 1: murder case, and suffice to say that there were eighteen 674 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 1: defendants that were charged with the murder of Byron Benito, 675 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 1: who was an MMS gang member, and he was in 676 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:37,359 Speaker 1: fact the victim that was lord. As Sergeant Anderson says, 677 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,440 Speaker 1: he was lured by his best friend at the time, 678 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:45,920 Speaker 1: Sam Hair, and Sam brought him to undisclosed location where 679 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:51,200 Speaker 1: rival gang members from the Brown Familiar Family were waiting 680 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:57,480 Speaker 1: to attack Byron, and Sam at that time was growing 681 00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 1: increasingly frustrated with his and Byron. Byron was acting like 682 00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:06,920 Speaker 1: a bully in many instances, beating up members of the 683 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 1: Brown Familiar gang for no apparent reason, and so Sam 684 00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 1: was starting to distance himself. We may never know with 685 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 1: absolute certainty if Sam believed that the Brown Familial gang 686 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 1: intended to murder Byron or simply wanted to rough him 687 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 1: up give him a scare, and everyone that knew Sam 688 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,280 Speaker 1: would tell me he would never run away from a fight, 689 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,799 Speaker 1: which is why Sam himself was injured from the attack. Eventually, 690 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:42,600 Speaker 1: Byron Benito did pass away from his injuries, and eighteen 691 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:47,880 Speaker 1: people stood charged with that murder. Six of them, including Sam, 692 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 1: were acquitted. And the reason that Sam Hare was acquitted 693 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 1: of these charges were because there was a technicality that 694 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,880 Speaker 1: the judge at the time felt there was a illegal, 695 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:05,759 Speaker 1: as he called it, arrest after a traffic stop. The 696 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,040 Speaker 1: police had stopped Sam because they saw some scooters in 697 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:10,760 Speaker 1: his car, and at the time a lot of scooters 698 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:15,480 Speaker 1: were being stolen, and so the actual traffic stop, the 699 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,759 Speaker 1: judge said, was was fine it was the it was 700 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 1: the arrest afterwards that the judge felt was far reaching. 701 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:26,880 Speaker 1: So therefore anything after the arrest was thrown out, and 702 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,480 Speaker 1: that included Sam's confession. He was haunted by this, it 703 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:34,120 Speaker 1: was his friend. I think he felt bad. I think 704 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 1: in many ways he was self medicating because he felt 705 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,360 Speaker 1: so bad. But he did, I guess after many hours 706 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:45,160 Speaker 1: with the sergeant, he did finally confess to his role. 707 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:51,080 Speaker 1: And Steve Hair told me that while he and Sam's 708 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:56,239 Speaker 1: attorney that Steve hired, we're waiting outside the interrogation room. 709 00:41:56,320 --> 00:42:01,759 Speaker 1: For whatever reason, police did not allow the attorney access 710 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,640 Speaker 1: to Sam. I don't know if it was because Sam 711 00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:08,280 Speaker 1: didn't ask for an attorney, but that is what Steve 712 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:13,400 Speaker 1: Hair had mentioned to me. And ultimately, because that confession 713 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,920 Speaker 1: was thrown out, Sam was acquitted of all charges. And 714 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:21,440 Speaker 1: I just think it's important to mention that that same officer, 715 00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,799 Speaker 1: the same sergeant that I spoke to, he said that 716 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,600 Speaker 1: he wanted it to be clear that Sam never went 717 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,839 Speaker 1: back to a life of crime. Sam, you know, from there, 718 00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:36,920 Speaker 1: really turned his life around, joined the army, and he 719 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:42,120 Speaker 1: he never he never looked back and tried to continue 720 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,160 Speaker 1: on that path. That was going to only lead him 721 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:49,839 Speaker 1: to prison at some point. Sam's past was something that 722 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,759 Speaker 1: he used as a litmus test often because he he 723 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:56,320 Speaker 1: would share this past with with people that he barely 724 00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:00,480 Speaker 1: knew at times. In fact, Sam's fiance at the time 725 00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,680 Speaker 1: had told me in a later interview that that he 726 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,160 Speaker 1: had this paperwork that he would show people and they 727 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,880 Speaker 1: would read it and and they would see what his 728 00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,839 Speaker 1: past was about and what he had been through. And 729 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,399 Speaker 1: if they reacted in a way that they said, well, 730 00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,600 Speaker 1: you know what, you're our guy, you're our friend, and 731 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,440 Speaker 1: we're not holding that against you, then he would become 732 00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,520 Speaker 1: friends with that person. Or if they were turned off 733 00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:26,000 Speaker 1: by what they read, then he knew that they would 734 00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:29,040 Speaker 1: never be real friends. So he did the same thing 735 00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:33,800 Speaker 1: with Daniel and Rachel, and this happened a weekend before 736 00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:37,400 Speaker 1: the murders. Daniel had been arrested by the Coast of 737 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:41,240 Speaker 1: Masa police ironically for an outstanding do you I warrant 738 00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,640 Speaker 1: and he was the lead in a musical called nine 739 00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:49,120 Speaker 1: at the time, and so Rachel was scrambling to get 740 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:51,960 Speaker 1: his bail money raised because he was the lead and 741 00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,120 Speaker 1: they weren't going to be able to perform the next night. 742 00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,399 Speaker 1: If she couldn't get him out of jail. So Dave 743 00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,920 Speaker 1: Barnhart and John Randolph, friends of theirs, a neighbors at 744 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,239 Speaker 1: the camp to Martinique, called around to try to raise 745 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,279 Speaker 1: the bail money, and one of those people that they 746 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,919 Speaker 1: called was Sam Hair, but he refused to give money. 747 00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,040 Speaker 1: I don't know them very well and I have no 748 00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:16,400 Speaker 1: interest in participating in this dude's bail money. Sam's friend 749 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:20,759 Speaker 1: Ruben Manacho recalls the story. Sam received a phone call 750 00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:26,520 Speaker 1: from Dave Dave and Dave was obviously I wasn't listening 751 00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:30,120 Speaker 1: to the conversation, but after they were dawn talking and 752 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:34,320 Speaker 1: Sam told me about what the conversation was about. Essentially, 753 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:38,040 Speaker 1: Dave was asking for money to bail Dan out of 754 00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:41,840 Speaker 1: out of jail. And I said, no, why would you. 755 00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,719 Speaker 1: Why are they even calling you to ask, you know, 756 00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,600 Speaker 1: to ask you for money. Doesn't seem fair. Do you 757 00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:49,719 Speaker 1: even know this guy that well? And he said like, yeah, 758 00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:53,759 Speaker 1: he's a friend. And I know that because if it 759 00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:55,480 Speaker 1: would have been a friend friend and he would have 760 00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:57,680 Speaker 1: hung out with us a lot more often. And that's 761 00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,920 Speaker 1: the reason why I say that. So and I advise 762 00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,719 Speaker 1: Sam to not to give him the money. I don't 763 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:08,040 Speaker 1: actually remember if he did or not. Hopefully he didn't, 764 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:14,160 Speaker 1: so that's yeah, um, but yeah, that was it. So 765 00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,880 Speaker 1: that upset them because in fact, Dave Barnhard said to Rachel, 766 00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:20,040 Speaker 1: and he's the he's the one guy that has more 767 00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:23,399 Speaker 1: money than all of us. I guess Rachel told Dan 768 00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:27,520 Speaker 1: that Sam did not contribute and when they saw Sam, 769 00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,080 Speaker 1: because eventually Rachel was able to raise the money and 770 00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,640 Speaker 1: Dan got out of jail the next morning and that 771 00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:35,959 Speaker 1: afternoon they went to the hot tub and that's where 772 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:40,799 Speaker 1: Sam was, and Sam, you know, responded to a complaint 773 00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:42,640 Speaker 1: that Dan was making, saying, I never want to go 774 00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:46,280 Speaker 1: to jail again. That was a horrible experience. It was awful. 775 00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:48,000 Speaker 1: I can't even believe I made it through the night. 776 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,120 Speaker 1: And basically Sam was like, you know, you gotta be 777 00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:54,239 Speaker 1: kidding me, dude, Like I was. I was sitting in 778 00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:58,840 Speaker 1: the Los Angeles County Men's jail for two years waiting 779 00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,640 Speaker 1: for my trial when I was charged with murder. At 780 00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:06,000 Speaker 1: that moment, Dan and Rachel found out this past of 781 00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:10,239 Speaker 1: where Sam was in fact himself once a defendant being 782 00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,680 Speaker 1: charged with murder. So that's what ultimately put the target 783 00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:17,200 Speaker 1: on his back. That's why they had used that pass. 784 00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,000 Speaker 1: They kept referring to that past when when Dan was 785 00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:23,880 Speaker 1: first arrested by Costa Masa police, So that in essence 786 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:27,920 Speaker 1: is the story of sam has past and why it 787 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:33,480 Speaker 1: plays a relevant role in this case. In the end, 788 00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:36,799 Speaker 1: I've always felt that Prosecutor Matt Murphy had a far 789 00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:40,480 Speaker 1: better case for accomplice or murder charges rather than the 790 00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:44,439 Speaker 1: accessory charges that Rachel now faces. I want to thank 791 00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,080 Speaker 1: you Scott Sanders for your time today and we look 792 00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,680 Speaker 1: forward to having you back next week for all your 793 00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:53,759 Speaker 1: legal observations on Rachel Buffett's trial proceedings. Thanks very much 794 00:46:53,800 --> 00:47:10,720 Speaker 1: for the opportunity. Yeah, On the next episode of Sleuth, 795 00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,160 Speaker 1: we go straight to Santa Anna Superior Court for our 796 00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,600 Speaker 1: gavel to gavel coverage of the trial we've been waiting for. 797 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:22,120 Speaker 1: It's the State of California versus Rachel Buffett, So tune 798 00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,799 Speaker 1: into Sleuth and you won't miss a moment of the 799 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:31,200 Speaker 1: witness testimony. If you enjoyed this episode of Sleuth, share 800 00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,600 Speaker 1: it with a friend and be sure to leave a 801 00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:37,600 Speaker 1: rating or review. Follow Sleuth on I Heart Radio, or 802 00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:40,839 Speaker 1: subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so that you never 803 00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,440 Speaker 1: miss an episode