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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George

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Speaker 1: Nori with you, Mark Shaw with us Mark, we were

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Speaker 1: talking about how Dorothy's body was kind of moved around.

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Speaker 1: That's kind of weird, isn't it. Well, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: amazing to me with some of these crime scenes what

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Speaker 1: happens we now know and I think we have proven

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Speaker 1: in the reporter who knew too much and then denial

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Speaker 1: of justice that you know, when when the police finally

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Speaker 1: came to Dorothy Kilgallan's townhouse, she'd already been dead for

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Speaker 1: several hours, and we wonder then what happened during that time.

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Speaker 1: We now know that there was the FBI came kind

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Speaker 1: of swarmed the apartment, took out of all of her documents,

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Speaker 1: investigating files, everything like that. And then you know, the

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Speaker 1: medical examiner, a junior medical examiner, not the main one,

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Speaker 1: came and just took a look at a second all

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Speaker 1: empty second all bottle and decided to cheat overdosed, not

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Speaker 1: checking to see that she had acted. We died in

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Speaker 1: the bed in the bathroom and then was taken into

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Speaker 1: the bedroom. That's been proven so, you know, you get

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Speaker 1: these situations where unfortunately, uh, you know, the crime scene

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Speaker 1: is is, you know, not as it was when when

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Speaker 1: she died, and that's what happened with Dorothy and really

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Speaker 1: what occurred there. I finally interviewed doctor Michael Boden, who

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Speaker 1: I think you've had on your program before, about a

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Speaker 1: month or two ago, for the new book, and I

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Speaker 1: wanted to ask him why they came up with a

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Speaker 1: solution the verdict that it was a combination of an

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Speaker 1: overdose of barbiturates and alcohol circumstances undetermined, and I asked

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Speaker 1: him why in the world then they went ahead and

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Speaker 1: told the media that she died of an accidental death,

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Speaker 1: and he admitted, he said it looks to me like

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Speaker 1: and his name, by the way, was on the autopsy report,

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Speaker 1: basically that they didn't know what happened to Dorothy and

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Speaker 1: yet they said it was an accidental death. And the

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Speaker 1: main detective on the on the case. I found a

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Speaker 1: quote from him where he said if he would have

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Speaker 1: known that it wasn't that it wasn't an accidental death,

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Speaker 1: he would have investigated. So unfortunately, you know, with these

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Speaker 1: kinds of cases, everything gets all mixed up. And then

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Speaker 1: you really don't have the truth. You're a man of

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Speaker 1: the truth, George, and we can't really find at times

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Speaker 1: the truth about these kinds of cases. And what a

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Speaker 1: story it was. And didn't the FBI raid the house

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Speaker 1: too and grabbed some documents? And you know, these are

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Speaker 1: true crime murder mysteries. All of my books are about

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Speaker 1: Dorothy Kilgallan. The new one is as well, Collateral Damage.

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Speaker 1: But in this situation, you have a true crime murder

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Speaker 1: mystery because I think I told you the last time

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Speaker 1: I was on the show that I had found a

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Speaker 1: reliable source in Las Vegas who told me exactly how

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Speaker 1: Dorothy was set up for the kill. There was a

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Speaker 1: boyfriend of hers, the main suspect, Ron Pataki, who learned

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Speaker 1: about what Dorothy was going to put in the book

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Speaker 1: for Random House. He told the wrong people what happened.

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Speaker 1: This guy told me this source, and therefore they had

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Speaker 1: to be able to eliminate her because they couldn't write that.

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Speaker 1: She couldn't write that book for Random House. And so

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Speaker 1: you know, in that situation, you look at motive and

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Speaker 1: then you know, we now know with an eyewitness that

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Speaker 1: JEdgar Hoover sent his agents into her office into her

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Speaker 1: townhouse to destroy that that file of hers, that thick

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Speaker 1: file of hers on the on the investigation of JFK.

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Speaker 1: So he becomes even more of a suspect than he

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Speaker 1: was before, as well as Carlos Marcello, the New York

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Speaker 1: New Orleans don who had another motive to have to

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Speaker 1: have eliminated Dorothy. Is Pataki still alive, Yes he is.

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Speaker 1: And and you know, this has been an exciting time

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Speaker 1: since I was on the show last some some successes

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Speaker 1: and some failures. Uh, it's amazing, you know, I've been

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Speaker 1: able to show, you know the fact that we're still

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Speaker 1: trying to hide the truth with the with the Ruby

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Speaker 1: trial transcripts, for instance, which are the most important documents

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Speaker 1: about the assassination and clearly show a plot to kill

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Speaker 1: the president. The sixth Floor Museum at Daily Plaza in

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Speaker 1: Dallas still distorts history with only information about the odds

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Speaker 1: while to lone theory. And then my attempts to get

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Speaker 1: Dorothyan investigation, George, it's amazing to me. Vance Junior, the

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Speaker 1: New York District Attorney, as you know, agreed to do

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Speaker 1: a thorough investigation and then he pulled the plug after

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Speaker 1: eight months I went to New York I think I

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Speaker 1: told you in February and met Commissioner Shay Dermott Shay

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Speaker 1: of the New York Police Department. I shook his hand.

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Speaker 1: There's a photograph of him and me on my website

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Speaker 1: markshawbooks dot com. He gave me the name of a

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Speaker 1: detective in his department and the detective's business card, and

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Speaker 1: said that I could communicate with that detective. I got

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Speaker 1: back to my home in California. I sent emails to

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Speaker 1: that detective were answered. I left a phone message for him,

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Speaker 1: none were answered, And finally I realized that what Shay

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Speaker 1: had done was in many ways shameless. He had really

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Speaker 1: lied to me in my face. I don't think he

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Speaker 1: ever intended for the detective to get back to me,

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Speaker 1: and so that really has disappointed me. There's a letter

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Speaker 1: I wrote to Shay that's on my website markshawbooks dot com,

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Speaker 1: complaining about what happened. I filed a freedom of information

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Speaker 1: request trying to get them to go forward because of

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Speaker 1: all the new evidence I have about Ron Pataki. It's overwhelming,

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Speaker 1: George that he was complicit in Dorothy's death, and besides

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Speaker 1: using a fellow officer as kind of a shield here,

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Speaker 1: which I believe is really derogatory with any officer who's

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Speaker 1: under the command of the Commissioner of the New York

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Speaker 1: Police Department. A killer is going to go free here

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Speaker 1: unless they investigate, and that this case qualifies on every

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Speaker 1: level as a cold case squad investigation. And yet I

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Speaker 1: can't get them to go after this. You know, I

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Speaker 1: assume your audience and maybe you as well, are thinking,

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Speaker 1: why is everybody scared of Dorothy kill Gallant's case that

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Speaker 1: happened in nineteen six? What did she know? What did

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Speaker 1: she know? And there's something there And of course, you know,

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Speaker 1: we both know when the government is investigating the government,

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Speaker 1: it's an uphill battle. But this little pint sized woman

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Speaker 1: scares the hell out of people with regard to what

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Speaker 1: she knew about the assassination. Nobody wants to jump into

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Speaker 1: that case at all. But I'm not going to give up.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to keep trying. I'm going to expose what

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Speaker 1: Shay did and I'm going to try to get an

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Speaker 1: independent investigation. What do you think Jack Ruby told her

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Speaker 1: in his prison cell? Well, this is this is fascinating,

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Speaker 1: because oh I just got a chill, George, because again today,

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Speaker 1: I think, I think Ruby, what do we know Dorothy did?

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Speaker 1: She lost her file, so we don't have the notes

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Speaker 1: in the new book. By the way, I have a

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Speaker 1: picture of her in Daily Plaza. She was right there

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Speaker 1: and right at the trial. Where did she go right

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Speaker 1: after the Ruby trial? She didn't go to Washington, d c.

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Speaker 1: And look into Johnson, President Johnson or the CI or anybody.

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Speaker 1: She didn't, you know, stay in Dallas. She went to

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Speaker 1: New Orleans. And as we both know, I've looked at

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Speaker 1: the assassination differently than anybody ever has. Why Bobby Kennedy

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Speaker 1: was not killed instead of why JFK was. And when

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Speaker 1: you have that perspective, which is the same one that

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Speaker 1: Dorothy had, I believe you realize that Marcello, who was

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Speaker 1: pursued by Bobby Kennedy right after Kennedy became attorney General

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Speaker 1: and had deported him and charged him with racketeering, and

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Speaker 1: then he got Bobby killed JFK. So Bobby would be powerless.

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Speaker 1: So that's where Dorothy went, and she successfully had one

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Speaker 1: trip there. Remember that was a very mysterious trip with

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Speaker 1: her hairdresser saying in the videotapes that I have on

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Speaker 1: the Dorothy kill Gallan story dot Org that when they

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Speaker 1: got there, she called him and said, go back to

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Speaker 1: New York. Don't tell anybody you were here. She goes

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Speaker 1: back to New York and unfortunately start she starts saying,

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Speaker 1: if the wrong people knew what I know about the

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Speaker 1: JFK assassination could cost me my life. I'm afraid for

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Speaker 1: my life and my family. I've bought a gun. And

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Speaker 1: she was dead shortly thereafter. So where did Ruby? What

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Speaker 1: did Ruby say? Well? Today, this gentleman who got in

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Speaker 1: touch with me from Florida told me that he interviewed

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Speaker 1: two of the children of Dorothy, Richard Junior and Carrie,

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Speaker 1: and while they were talking, they said to him that

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Speaker 1: Jack Ruby had told Dorothy that if he could just

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Speaker 1: get in front of an independent jury, he would tell

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Speaker 1: the truth about what happened. Wow. And I think when

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Speaker 1: Dorothy learned that, that's what extended her investigation and into

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Speaker 1: New Orleans. I mean, that's where we are right now.

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Speaker 1: Didn't Ruby, No, Carlos Marcello, Oh, it's just amazing. John

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Speaker 1: told Traffic Conte he knew them both. He was running

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Speaker 1: strip clubs for them, wasn't he. And if this all

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Speaker 1: goes back to my first book about this assassination about

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Speaker 1: Melvin Belli, the San Francisco lawyer that I knew and

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Speaker 1: practiced law within the eighties, and and uh, you know

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Speaker 1: who was Jack Ruby's lawyer, and he was all mobbed

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Speaker 1: up with Mickey Cohen and all of that brought into

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Speaker 1: silence Jack Ruby. And of course then Ruby we connect

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Speaker 1: easily with um with Marcello through his underlings, because Marcello's empire,

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Speaker 1: George extended to Dallas. And you know, there's these little

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Speaker 1: things that Dorothy picked up, and it's amazing to me

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Speaker 1: that people missed them back then. The very first visitor

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Speaker 1: to Jack Ruby in jail was a guy named Campeasy

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Speaker 1: and he and Josephvello, Joe Campeazi and Josephvello. But Campeasy

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Speaker 1: were the first one. Well, who was he working for

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Speaker 1: in Dallas? Carlos Marcello Conte? Did the name Jimmy Hoffa

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Speaker 1: come up, Bunchmark in your work? What's that Jimmy Hoffa's name?

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Speaker 1: Did it come up much? Yeah? It did, and it

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Speaker 1: comes through an interesting book by Frank Regano, who was

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Speaker 1: a lawyer in Florida. You may have heard his name,

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Speaker 1: but it's called Mob Lawyer. I've suggested people read it

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Speaker 1: because imagine this as your as your three main clients,

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Speaker 1: James Hoffa, Santo Traficante, and Carlos Marcello. And I interviewed

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Speaker 1: Regano's widow, Nancy, and she was able to tell me

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Speaker 1: about the connections between Haffa, the gangsters, Ruby Oswald being

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Speaker 1: I now have an eyewitness who saw Oswald in Marcello's

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Speaker 1: restaurant in New Orleans. You know, you can easily connect

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Speaker 1: all of those people. And I'll tell you what the

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Speaker 1: common denominator is. Common sense. That's what Dorothy was really

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Speaker 1: good at, you know, at the at the Sam Shephard

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Speaker 1: case or the Lindbergh baby kidnapping case. I mean, she was.

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Speaker 1: She was a better trial lawyer then most trial all right,

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Speaker 1: she really was well. And in this case too, with

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Speaker 1: the situation with Haffa, he hated Bobby Kennedy hated him

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Speaker 1: with a passion. Well, I would, I would think you

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Speaker 1: would when when the Attorney General of the United States

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Speaker 1: tries to strangle you, I mean when when the when

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Speaker 1: Haffa tries to strangle uh, the Attorney General of the

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Speaker 1: United States. Yeah, I think that's hatred. And so you know,

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Speaker 1: they they all had a motive. You know, Bobby Kennedy

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Speaker 1: is a big part of the new book, Collateral Damage.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to connect the deaths of Dorothy Kilgallan, Marilyn Monroe,

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Speaker 1: and JFK. And the common denominator there is Bobby Kennedy.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's amazing. You know, you have three deaths there, George,

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Speaker 1: within forty months. Yeah, Marylyn dies in August of sixty two,

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Speaker 1: JFK November sixty three, and Dorothy November sixty five. Forty months,

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Speaker 1: all three of these individuals died. And I've been amazed

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Speaker 1: now at the similarities I've found in each of their

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Speaker 1: lives and their professional and private lives, and then connecting

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Speaker 1: them together with regard to their tragic death. And then

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Speaker 1: eventually Bobby goes and then Bobby is killed in sixty eight.

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Speaker 1: And you know, again common sense, look what happened when

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Speaker 1: Bobby Kennedy, When Jack Kennedy died, Bobby Kennedy was powerless.

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Speaker 1: He broke up that that huge group of federal investigators

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Speaker 1: never went after those those mobsters. Again. Alb Jerry basically

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Speaker 1: stymied him. He resigned in September of nineteen sixty seven.

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Speaker 1: Then he's gonna run for president. Now, many people asked

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Speaker 1: me to write this book about Maryland with Dorothy and JFK,

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Speaker 1: but they also want me to write about Bobby Kennedy's

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Speaker 1: death because use a little common sense. Is there any

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Speaker 1: connection between Sir Han Sir Han and the same gangsters?

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Speaker 1: You know, I've never looked into that, but somebody certainly

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Speaker 1: should because common sense would say, what these gangsters are

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Speaker 1: now free of Bobby Kennedy. And then Kennedy runs for president,

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Speaker 1: what would be the first thing he would do when

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Speaker 1: he entered the White House. He would go back and

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Speaker 1: investigate those guys for their participation in his brother's death.

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Speaker 1: And remember what Bobby said, and this has been you know,

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Speaker 1: proven by many other people besides me. What did he

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Speaker 1: say when he heard that that JFK had been had

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Speaker 1: been killed? Well, I thought it would be me, And

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Speaker 1: of course he was right. He knew it what it

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Speaker 1: was supposed to be him. That's what the prosecutor of

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Speaker 1: Jack Ruby, Bill Alexander, told me. He expected Bobby Kennedy

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Speaker 1: to be killed. See, they were concerned if Bobby got killed,

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Speaker 1: JFK would assign some other prosecutors to go after the

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Speaker 1: same people. But you know, it doesn't take too much

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Speaker 1: to think that Bobby Kennedy, they couldn't let him become

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Speaker 1: president United States just wasn't going to happen. You know,

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Speaker 1: Nick Poleggie, you may have interviewed him, an incredible writer, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know who wrote Wise Guys in those films. He

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Speaker 1: used to tell me, you know, you can't mess around

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Speaker 1: with those mafioso, the Cecilians. It's all about revenge. And

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Speaker 1: I think I may have told you this story before,

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Speaker 1: a personal story. When I was with Good Morning America

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Speaker 1: and covering trials and things, they sent me to Philadelphia

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Speaker 1: to interview the lawyer for Angelo Anthony Ruso or whatever

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Speaker 1: his name was, Angelo Bruno, the main gangster in Philadelphia,

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Speaker 1: and they were trying to get into Atlantic City. So

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Speaker 1: I went to Philadelphia. I sat down with this lawyer

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Speaker 1: and he started telling me things about, you know, the

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Speaker 1: mafia boss that I didn't think he should be telling me.

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Speaker 1: They played that the next day, the tape of it

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Speaker 1: on Good Morning America Sandy Hill and David Hartman maybe

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Speaker 1: your listeners will remember, and they said, look, well he

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Speaker 1: talked to you again because it was a big hit,

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Speaker 1: and I said, well, I'll find out. I called his office.

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Speaker 1: This secretary answered. She was kind of whimpering, and I said,

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Speaker 1: are you okay? And she said, well, I guess you

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Speaker 1: don't know, mister Shaw. He was sitting in his car

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Speaker 1: this morning and it blew up. That was during that time,

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Speaker 1: all those card bombings are happening. Mess around with those

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Speaker 1: guys and Joe Kennedy, you know, appointing Bob, telling JFK

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Speaker 1: to appoint Bobby Kennedy, double crossing them. You know, it

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Speaker 1: all comes around in life, George, And you know it's

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Speaker 1: really unfortunate that Jack Kennedy died. He should have never died.

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Speaker 1: That's part of the collateral damage here, as Marilyn is

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Speaker 1: and as Dorothy Kilgallan is in the new book. Did

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Speaker 1: I ever tell you that I may have been one

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Speaker 1: of the last newsmen to talk to Jimmy Hoffa No.

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Speaker 1: May nineteen seventy five in Detroit. I invite him to

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Speaker 1: a TV show I was producing. He came in, he

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Speaker 1: did it. I walked him to his car, we chatted

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Speaker 1: a little bit, we shook hands, and off he went.

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Speaker 1: My theory is twofold Mark with Jimmy Hoffa. I think

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Speaker 1: one he wanted to regain the Teamster presidency, and the

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Speaker 1: Mob was so involved with Frank Fitzsimmons getting better deals

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Speaker 1: than they were getting with Jimmy, they didn't want Jimmy back.

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Speaker 1: But I also think part of me thinks that Jimmy

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Speaker 1: was going to rat on them over the jeffk assassination. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I've never thought of that. So they so they bump

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Speaker 1: him off because they were afraid he was going to

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Speaker 1: talk interesting because well, look, you know, he and Marcello

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Speaker 1: and Traficante were you know, three birds together, and Frank

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Speaker 1: Gregano connects them completely, So that makes sense. I think

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Speaker 1: I'll try to look into that. Is it all right

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Speaker 1: if I? Yeah, that could be another book for you.

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Speaker 1: Was your research here, absolutely, and you know mine was

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Speaker 1: firsthand experience, but that I always had that feeling when

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Speaker 1: I was with Haffa that it wasn't just the Teamster

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Speaker 1: presidency he was after. There was something else. He was George,

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Speaker 1: but well he was he was a tough, strong unionist, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, and there were there were times when companies

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Speaker 1: would abuse the American working man or woman and they

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Speaker 1: needed a tough president and in those days, those unions

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Speaker 1: used muscle as the companies did to fight back, and

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Speaker 1: he was there at the right time. Ironically, his son

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Speaker 1: is the president of the Teamsters Union. Now I think

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Speaker 1: that's right, isn't it? Ye sure is. But I always

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Speaker 1: had that feeling that's a slice of history that you

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Speaker 1: you know, we're able to meet and talk with him

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Speaker 1: and all of that, and this all is all about history.

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Speaker 1: People probably wonder, why are we talking about the assassination

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Speaker 1: that happened years and years and years ago. Well, it's

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Speaker 1: about history. And I'm about history and I about abolishing

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Speaker 1: distortions of history, just like you are. We're both looking

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Speaker 1: for the truth. Listen to more Coast to Coast AM

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Speaker 1: every weeknight at one am Eastern, and go to Coast

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Speaker 1: to Coast am dot com for more