WEBVTT - The Sin Eater: Anthony Pellicano 0:00:00.560 --> 0:00:03.400 Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:04.920 Zaren Elizabeth. 0:00:04.920 --> 0:00:05.800 You know it's ridiculous. 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:07.560 Oh my god, I'm so glad you asked me that 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:09.240 ten gallon hats? 0:00:09.400 --> 0:00:10.720 Yes, totalous, right? 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:13.680 If you poured water in them or like beer or 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:16.520 champagne or whatever, do you know how much it would hold? 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:17.200 How much liquid? 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:18.080 Ten gallons? 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:19.239 No, one gallon? 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:20.360 One gallon? 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.480 Yeah. So people are always like, wait a minute, how much? 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:24.960 Why is it called a ten gallon hat if it 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:27.159 only holds one gallon of liquid, like, you know, like 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:30.320 smart alec kids like me. Well, it turns out there's 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:34.120 a good guard darn reason for that. The term is 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:37.479 actually galloon, and it refers to a certain kind of braid, 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:39.839 like a braided band that used to be popular, and 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:42.800 they were worn by the Mexican baccaros around their hat 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:46.720 and you could fit ten galloons on that hat. So 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:50.360 it was a ten galloon hat. The Americans and then 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:52.440 the English speakers of the region they got it. They're like, 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:54.400 you got a ten gallon hat there for me, partner, 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:57.000 you hurt me, Pedro, give me one of them hats? Icked? 0:00:57.000 --> 0:00:59.960 How of that look on you? Now? These braided ribbons, 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:02.600 they are called the galloon. So the next time you 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:04.520 hear it, if you really want to be the smart 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:06.360 out kid, you can crack and be like, actually it's 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:08.920 a ten galloon hat. So there you go. Ridiculous. 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:12.080 Huh, you're very ridiculous. Uh do you want to know 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:13.040 what else is ridiculous? 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:14.440 Girl? I came here for it? 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:38.319 Wire Tapping. What this is? Ridiculous Crime A podcast about 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:42.399 absurd and outrageous capers, heists, and cons. It's always ninety 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:46.160 nine percent murder free and one hundred percent ridiculous. Damn 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.080 right now, you just hit us on Tuesday with a 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:50.520 big Hollywood story. 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:51.120 Yeah I did. 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:53.600 I'm going to hit you back. Oh really? Oh yeah, 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:55.720 we're going back to tinseltown. 0:01:56.160 --> 0:01:56.840 Bring you baby. 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:59.680 I want to read a quote to you from today's 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:04.160 Fellow Sure quote. You have to be honorable, you have 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:06.320 to keep your word, and you have to be loyal. 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:09.200 Were there things that I did that other people find 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:12.440 unreasonable or despicable or whatever adjective you want to use. 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:15.920 I don't care. I care about that person who entrusted 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:18.280 me to solve their problem. That's who I care about. 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:20.680 Oh yeah, swifty Lazar, Now who is this? 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:23.400 So this is a man with a code, and that 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:26.160 code is that he doesn't give a tinker's damn about 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:27.959 what is legal and what is illegal. 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:30.440 Oh so one of our people, one. 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:32.960 Of our people. He had a client and he would 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:34.960 do whatever he needed to do in order to meet 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:36.680 or exceed that client's request. 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:38.400 Okay, this is not Swifty Lazarre. 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:40.920 No, this man Anthony Pelicano. 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:43.120 Oh my god, Oh my god. 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:49.440 Yes, he was born Anthony Joseph Pelican l Junior in 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:53.160 nineteen forty four in Cicero, Illinois, al Capone's hometown. 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:55.160 Oh yeah, gangster rich, and it's something that he liked 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:56.160 to point out, of course. 0:02:56.880 --> 0:03:01.359 So he had these Sicilians Sicilian grand parents. When they 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:04.359 came over, they americanized the family name to Pelican or 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:07.519 Pelican in order to get by in their new homeland. 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:11.200 But Anthony true to his roots. When he became an adult, 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:12.880 he went back to the original Pelicano. 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:15.280 He's a compone's not going to trust anybody named Pelican 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:17.119 Pelicano exactly. 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:20.560 So he joins the US Army Signal Corps. When they 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:23.240 asked him what he wanted to do, he said electronics 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:25.480 because he saw a magazine in the recruiter's office with 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:25.960 that on it. 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:26.520 Good answer. 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:29.520 Yeah, he trained to be a cryptographer because like when 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:31.680 he signed up, he said he was super inte electronics. 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:32.200 I'm smart. 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.800 He got stationed in France, and that meant no Vietnam, people. 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:38.200 Who like electronics don't usually get shot in the army, exactly. 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:40.280 Smart move. So when he got out of. 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:41.520 The army, he, I mean when you say it in 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:43.440 the draft, not like people who like electronics, A lot 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:46.400 of them on the front line. You're like, I like electronics. 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:48.000 Arrein Yeah, I don't mean that when you enlist. 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:49.240 Yeah, tell them. 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:50.880 So he gets out of the army, he gets a 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:53.400 job in collections, and he's tracking down those who haven't 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:55.920 paid their bills. And then that takes us to nineteen 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:56.520 sixty nine. 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:59.960 He becomes not for the mob, he's actually legit collect 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:01.080 He's still wearing. 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:04.320 That suit exactly, and so in nineteen sixty nine he 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:07.840 decides to officially become a private investigator. Have you ever 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:08.440 met a PI? 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:08.720 Oh? 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:10.120 Yeah, I have a friend of a PI. Yeah. 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:12.680 I knew someone who transitioned out of that gig. Yeah, 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:14.360 And she said it was lots of like sitting in 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:16.520 the car in the car, divorce work, taking pictures of 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:17.320 people having affairs. 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:19.160 Yeah, totally. That still is the thing. Like from the 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:21.800 nineteen thirties on, it's been the same thing. Sit in 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:23.960 a car, eat fast food, take photos you wish you 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:24.560 didn't have to take. 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:27.719 Exactly. So Pelicano he sees all these ads in the 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:30.599 Yellow Pages for pis and he figures he should like 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:33.640 start out at an established office. So this is what 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:34.599 he told La Times. 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:35.080 Quote. 0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:38.159 So I called the biggest ad in there, and I said, listen, 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:40.760 I'm the best skip tracer there is. I want to 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:43.320 do all your work. Give me your hardest case. They'd 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:45.679 been looking for this missing little girl for six weeks 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:49.080 and I found her in two days. How with intelligence, logic, 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:53.719 common sense, a tremendous amount of imagination and an acute perception. 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:56.480 So he really did. Yeah, he didn't just go down 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:57.960 and like like bribe the right peo people. 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:00.599 He knows how to do these things. A character. 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:01.880 He was a good detective. Oh yeah. 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:05.440 According to Vanity Fair quote, he drove a large linking continental, 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:09.680 sealed his letters with monogrammed wax, and hung samurai swords 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:12.480 in his office. At various times. He gave his employees 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:15.800 and family members necklaces bearing a small golden horn he 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:17.360 said contained a strand of his hair. 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:18.120 Oh my god. 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:21.400 Much of his early work involved missing persons. A nineteen 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:24.320 seventy eight article claimed that he had found three nine 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:27.159 hundred and sixty eight of them, which works out to 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:29.400 about four hundred and forty people a year, more than 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:31.240 one a day. 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:36.159 So I think he used to have an office on 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:37.160 Sunset Boulevard. 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:37.599 He did. 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:40.040 We'll get to that, okay. I remember people have pointed 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:42.360 it out, like they'd be like, you know, that's pelicanas exactly. 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:45.120 So seventy seven he made a splash by finding the 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:49.120 stolen remains of Mike Todd, Elizabeth Taylor's third husband. Oh wow, 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:51.520 so remains stolen? Tell me more? 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:54.120 Yeah, he must. 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:56.760 Mike Todd died in a plane crash and he was 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:59.360 buried in a Chicago cemetery and what was left of 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:02.400 him was quote basically a handful of dust and what 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:04.520 was likely part of a nylon seat belt. 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:07.880 He was buried with a seat belt. This is also 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:08.760 his returnal remains. 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:10.359 Yes, it's just a little bit of stuff that's a 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:13.120 bag and they put it in a rubber bag and 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:15.160 then tucked it into a coffin and buried it. 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:17.240 They didn't even get like a little Crown royal bag 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:19.000 because apparently not. 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:22.279 I don't know why I rubbed it. So around June 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:25.120 twenty fifth, nineteen seventy seven, his grave is found all 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:29.000 dug up, the coffin empty. Cops are on the case, 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:31.680 but they're like they're coming up empty empty as the coffins. 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:35.479 Eric Yes, So June twenty eighth, Pelicano, he calls Chicago's 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:38.200 Channel two news and he says, hey, pal listen, I 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:40.200 got a tip about where to find what's left of 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:43.120 all Mike Todd oh, and so Channel two they're all 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:45.320 about it. They send out a news team and plus 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:47.279 then they tell the cops, which you know is the 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:50.400 right thing to do. So everyone gets to the graveyard 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:52.960 and it is on Pelicano. He stands in front of 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:55.800 all the gathered folks and he reads out loud the 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:59.279 instructions that he had received from his tipster. And so 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:02.160 then he starts walking the number of paces indicated. 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:04.880 There's numbered paces. He walks like a treasure map. 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:07.719 Yeah. He gets around seventy five yards away from the 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:10.680 grave and he stops. I found it, he yells, Oh 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:13.400 my god. Yeah, the detectives come running over and there's 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:16.440 Pelicano pointing at a pile of leaves. Now, the cops 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:19.920 had already searched this pile, tim So he reaches in 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:23.320 and he pulls out a rubber bag. What how on 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:25.080 earth did he get the tip about the bag? 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:26.920 Do you want my real answer? 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:27.280 No? 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:30.440 So he told the Chicago Sun Times that the tip 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:33.640 came from someone likely acting on behalf of the thieves. Quote. 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:36.880 I think they felt they made a tremendous mistake. He said. 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:39.960 The information was volunteered to me. I'm a public figure 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:42.239 and I've handled many many missing figures. 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:44.440 They could feel my heat on the collar. I was 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:47.440 in hot pursuits. They were like, can't mister Pelicano. 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:50.840 But that's not all, he says. That wasn't all other 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:53.480 tipsters and sources they reach out to him. Fill him 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:54.080 in on the motive. 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:54.960 Oh multiple, Okay. 0:07:55.080 --> 0:07:58.560 Well, supposedly the thieves were looking for a ten carrot 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.640 diamond ring in the bag of ass. Well, apparently that 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:04.680 was his wedding ring's wedding ring, and it survived the 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:05.440 plane craft and they. 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:07.000 Thought Elizabeth would just put it in there as. 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:08.760 Like a right well, Liz had it though, of. 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:11.040 Course she loves the rings and diamonds in particular. 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:13.920 Exactly, so everyone figured it was probably the Chicago mob 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:16.640 behind the whole thing. Oh okay, but the big rumor 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:19.520 was that Pelicano was behind the whole thing for publicity, 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:25.680 and that that publicity worked though, yeah, exactly. So he 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:29.080 starts appearing as an expert witness for the government things. 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:31.600 Oh yeah, he'd gone through this thing where he because 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:34.080 of the finding Mike Todd's remains, and he winds up 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:37.880 on some like police board. But then sure in Chicago, Yeah, 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:39.680 but then he embezzles money or he does something and 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:41.600 he gets kicked off. So then he starts appearing as 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:42.480 this expert witness. 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:44.079 It is like at the end of the Richard Daly 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:45.400 era Chicago Sun. 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:50.760 So his particular expertise was deciphering tape recordings, okay, oh yeah, 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:54.560 And in nineteen seventy four he was hired by the 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:58.080 lawyers for Nixon's secretary. What they wanted him to recover 0:08:58.160 --> 0:08:59.880 that eighteen year gap in the water. 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:01.480 And to be able to prove that it had been 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:02.000 done correctly. 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:04.280 Yeah, and so he said he couldn't recover them and 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:08.880 he thought that the erasure was unintentional. Oh yeah, sure, buddy. 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:11.440 So you know he did all sorts of other stuff. 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:15.440 Where next, though, Where next? Elizabeth, when in doubt, moved 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:16.440 to La Of course. 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:18.719 That's if you shake all like the country loose, that's 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:20.240 throw all the loose nuts goots exactly. 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:23.040 He goes to Los Angeles Old Tinseltown nineteen eighty two. 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:27.120 He boosted his profile by hinting that he had connections 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:27.600 to the mob. 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:30.280 A good one. They love that there, anti. 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:31.959 Law enforcement, he played both sides. 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:32.959 They also love that there. 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:33.280 Yeah. 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:36.760 So now in Hollywood, Pelicano got this really sweet gig 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:41.240 with lawyer Howard Weisman. Oh yeah, and Whitesman had a 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:44.840 client who was accused of selling coke to finance his business. Ah, 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:49.920 that client, John DeLorean, Yes, there you go. So there's 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:52.640 a tape in which Delaurian referred to a suitcase of 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:54.400 cocaine as quote better than gold. 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:56.600 And so maybe he was really good. 0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:59.520 He was just you know, in the tape, he's meeting 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:01.840 with these people that he thinks are investors, but they're 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:05.240 actually cops. And DeLorean then, when the whole thing goes down, 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:08.120 claims that he was being set up. So Pelicano, his 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:10.480 job is to provide that yes, to. 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:13.280 Prove yes, indeed set up okay, Yeah, And. 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:16.280 So he showed the jury that the tapes had been altered, 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:19.439 these tapes where he's calling it, you know, better than gold. Yeah, 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:21.400 And as a result, Delorean's acquitted. 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:22.880 He got Delarean off. 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:26.440 Yes. Wow, this was the biggest boost yet for Pelicanos 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:26.960 for a while. 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:28.679 So he was in a town with a lot of 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:30.120 people need to get off of right. 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:32.760 And he goes up against the Feds and wins. Everyone 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:33.680 wants his services. 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:33.880 Now. 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:35.800 They would say, they're like, they have a ninety nine 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:38.560 percent prosecution right now, you beat the Feds, that's yeah. 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:40.720 So he's in the big time, of course, and he 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:44.040 made sure to charge his clients accordingly. He charged a 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:48.079 standard twenty five thousand dollars retainer that was like the baseline. Yeah, 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:50.080 and on top of that, he had other fees that 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:52.640 you know, the price of his services could go into 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:53.840 the hundreds of thousands of dollars. 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:55.480 Yeah. The twenty five thousand is so he would answer 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:56.160 your call it three. 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:59.400 As exactly exactly. So around nineteen eighty nine, he gets 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:04.280 hired by a high profile attorney named Bert Fields. Yes, so, 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:08.040 Bert Charlie Burt nine hundred dollars an hour at the time. 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:11.240 That's like twenty two hundred dollars an hour now, insane. 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:14.559 Ken Aletta wrote for The New Yorker that Fields and 0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:17.000 Fields passed away in twenty twenty two at the age 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:20.600 of ninety three. He wrote about Fields quote has represented 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:23.840 almost every studio head and some of Hollywood's biggest stars, 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:29.400 including Tom Cruise, Michael Jackson, Warren Batty, The Beatles, John Travolta, Madonna, 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:34.280 Mike Nichols, and Dustin Hoffman. He has also represented Rupert Murdoch, 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:37.920 the chairman of News Corp. And Steven Spielberg, David Geffen 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:42.400 Jeffrey Katzenberg, the co founders of DreamWorks SKG. The unwritten 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:46.079 calling card says, not wholly accurately, Bert Fields has never 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:47.319 lost a court case. 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:48.600 And he wears great suits. 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:53.240 Yes he did, he did rip so. Pelicano's first gig 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:58.120 with Fields was for a wildly Hollywood character one accused 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:01.880 of sexual harassment by a former a song as. 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:03.439 Old as Time. Oh, yes, very Hollywood. 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:08.840 But this was none other than producer Don Simpson. Oh no, Simpson, 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:10.960 producer of Top Go flash Dance. 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:14.280 I told you my friend that was his, Like, I 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:15.760 know so much about him because he would tell me 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:17.319 these stories, you know, one time Don Simpson, Like I 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:19.200 don't it was like his like one time at band camp. 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:21.600 But it's like one time Don Simpson. I'm like, so we've. 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:24.560 Talked about it before. He was completely out of control. 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:28.120 Watch terrible person, just Si always hanging out with piles 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:30.360 of cocaine and like sex workers who just had to 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:32.360 be there. Like nobody who wasn't paid wanted to be 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:32.880 around him. 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:36.000 But his serious Hollywood power player. Oh totally but completely 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:38.240 off the making one hundred million dollar movies. Everyone just 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:41.040 like gave him cart block because he wrote he would 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:42.480 basically go out there and make a movie and you 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:43.880 know it was gonna be that year is one of 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:46.480 the big Temple hits three hundred million, four hundred and 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:48.280 five or whatever it was. He'd be like, oh wow, 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:51.480 Days of Thunder, all those movies that boom. 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:55.400 Yeah. So his assistant alleged that Simpson quote snorted cocaine 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:58.280 in the office, ordered her to line up dates with prostitutes, 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:01.200 exposed her to pornographic material, and cussed her out. 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:04.320 That sounds like they have yes, sounds like a Monday. 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:05.800 Son's having a good Monday? 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:09.840 Is that New Yorker piece? It says quote Pelicano uncovered 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:12.880 information about Simpson's accuser, including the fact that she had 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:15.840 hired a mail stripper for a party. Instead of addressing 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:19.240 her charges, Fields questioned her character and credibility, and the 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:21.319 revelations helped to get the case dismissed. 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:25.199 I love it gross the character assassination in American criminals 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:26.080 like courtrooms. 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:29.120 Oh and Pelicano it seems yeah. 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:31.400 I'm like, does nobody ever think, like, wait a minute, 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:33.400 this is just like on Law and Order, And I 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:36.280 hate it when they do it there anyway. But on so. 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:38.640 Pelicano he had other stuff to do with Don Simpson. 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:41.520 In August of nineteen ninety five, the doctor who was 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:45.120 supposedly working with Simpson to address his addictions was found dead. 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:49.280 And I'm not laughing about him dying. I'm like, the 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:51.040 man who's trying to help you with your addiction dies, 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:53.600 have a drug lasted, the guy who's been hired to 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:54.440 help you with this stuff. 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:58.440 Yeah, and so Pelicano's called before the cops. So he 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:01.120 gets there toxicology though, like he cleans up the scene. 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:04.840 Toxicology eventually revealed that the doctor had a whole messa 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:07.200 drugs in the system. Oh so who knows what else? 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:09.560 Pelican he was helping him by doing the drugs again, 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:10.520 I'll do all your drugs. 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:11.600 I would do the cocaine faster. 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:14.400 See the same thing happened in nineteen ninety six. The 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:17.240 next year, when Simpson himself was found dead of an overdose, 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:19.000 Pelicano was called before the police. 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:20.240 Tragic day for my friend. 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:20.800 Exactly. 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:21.040 So. 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:25.200 Another client of Field's former beatle, George Harrison, he had 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:25.800 a problem. 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:27.160 I wouldn't have expected that. 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:30.320 He was getting threatening letters. And that's when he brought 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.640 that security expert Gavin de Becker into his life. So 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:37.840 Fields hired Pelicano again, and Pelicano found the letter writer 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:40.840 within two days, and the letters immediately stopped. 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:43.320 Damn, he is good. I gotta do that. 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:47.560 So this is why Fields work, right, So Fields told 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:50.000 the New Yorker quote, he came up with stuff that 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:53.000 other people didn't. He did that over and over again. 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:55.440 He was just better. I don't know how he did it. 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:58.760 It certainly wasn't wire tapping. So like wire tapping, why 0:14:58.800 --> 0:14:59.480 would you say. 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.200 Why did you who brought tapping? 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:04.880 Who said that? But wiretapping is the tip of the 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:08.360 iceberg on this, it's the good stuff, wiretapping or not. 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:13.160 Fields was all in with Pelicano. So, according to Pelicano's employees, 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:18.120 per Vanity, fair Fields quote brought Pelicano into DreamWorks Animation 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:22.080 CEO Jeffrey Katzenberg's litigation with Disney's Michael Eisner. 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:23.600 Oh, a huge case. 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:27.440 Tom Cruise's defense against a gay porn stars sex allegations. 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:31.560 Another big one, Imagine Entertainment suit against Mike Myers, but 0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:32.600 a few totally. 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:34.000 I forgot about the Mike Myers. 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:36.600 You liked the late great Gary Shandling, right, Oh? 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:37.320 Yeah, love him. 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:40.280 He was a comic genius, bit of a tortured. 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:41.960 Soul, totally but a good dude, totally good. 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:45.760 Yes, Since I can't think of an occasion when you 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:48.320 hadn't at least heard of something, most likely even no 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:50.760 facts and details about, especially when it comes to Hollywood 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:55.800 stuff or obscure Eastern European Western Asian ancient history. I 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:58.440 think you've heard about the beef between Gary Shandling and 0:15:58.480 --> 0:15:59.720 his manager Brad Gray. 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:00.840 I'm familiar. 0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:03.360 He yeah, So let's take a break when we come back, 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:06.400 I'll tell you all about it and how Anthony Pelicano 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:07.320 factors into it. 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:29.000 Yes, welcome, Hey. 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:31.600 So when we last spoke, I was telling you about 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:32.960 Gary Shandling and Brad Gray. 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:33.440 Correct. 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:35.760 So Gray he started out in Hollywood as a talent 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:39.200 manager and from there he added in work as a producer. 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:42.920 His first gig was in nineteen eighty six with It's 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:46.280 Gary Shandling Show on Showtime. This is first producing thing, 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:48.800 so Shanling. In that show, he played a stand up 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:51.400 comic who also knows that he's a TV character, so 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:53.720 he like interacts with the studio audience and he messes 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:57.960 with storylines. Huge hit, critically acclaimed, ran for four seasons, 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:00.720 and then it went into syndication on Fox. So the 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:03.640 show led to Shanling getting another show on HBO, The 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:07.560 Larry Sanders Show. That's another success. But in nineteen ninety 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:10.560 eight there was a falling out. Shanling sued Gray for 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:14.200 one hundred million dollars. He said that Gray cheated him 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:16.400 out of the money he made from the Larry Sanders Show. 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:21.399 Gray hired Bert Fields and countersued. Yeah. So Fields, of 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:26.320 course brings in Anthony Pelicano. Pelicano had a cop run 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:30.919 unauthorized background checks on Shanling, a former girlfriend of his, 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:35.560 his personal assistant, his business manager, and actor Kevin Nelan, 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:39.679 who was like one of Shanling's best friends. So he 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:43.919 also wiretapped every single one of those people. Both lawsuits 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:46.040