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Speaker 2: Man, Welcome back to Coast to Coast George Norri with you.
Speaker 2: We're back with Sarah Skoles, science writer whose work has
Speaker 2: appeared in The Atlantic, Slate, Smithsonian, The Washington Post, Scientific, American,
Speaker 2: Popular Science, Discover, New Science, and Wired. A former editor
Speaker 2: of Astronomy Magazine, she worked at the National Radio Astronomy
Speaker 2: Observatory and the location of the first ever SETI project.
Speaker 2: She lives in Denver, Colorado. Sarah, welcome back to the program.
Speaker 3: Hey, thank you for having me again.
Speaker 2: Have you been everything good?
Speaker 3: Good? Yeah, doing well, hanging out in Colorado.
Speaker 2: You know, I've been tracking the government lately talking about UAPs,
Speaker 2: and they still won't come across and tell us that
Speaker 2: they think they're extraterrestrial. Why not?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was interesting. I was actually just listening to
Speaker 3: the hearing that the that happened on you Peaches just
Speaker 3: the other day, and they explicitly said that they didn't
Speaker 3: they didn't think it was extraterrestrials, which you know, is
Speaker 3: a different direction to go. I mean, I think, you know,
Speaker 3: they say they don't have any any evidence that that
Speaker 3: is what it is, though, I imagine, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Why do you think I think they're afraid that people
Speaker 2: can't handle the truth, and I don't. I don't agree
Speaker 2: with that. I think people can and I think most
Speaker 2: people would say we knew they were real, we knew
Speaker 2: they existed, but for some reason, government just doesn't want
Speaker 2: to disclose it unless there's something very nefarious going on,
Speaker 2: something evil going on with them, and they don't want
Speaker 2: us to know, like these abduction cases and stuff. So
Speaker 2: many people disappear off this planet every year. Maybe they're
Speaker 2: being taken. Who knows? What do you think?
Speaker 3: I mean? I I don't have anything probably like probably
Speaker 3: like you, other than you know the stories that people
Speaker 3: tell or you know, people who do go missing. I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't know that the UH status part of the
Speaker 3: what like the Pentagon is investigating right now, but I
Speaker 3: would I would be interested to see some of that
Speaker 3: hard data on all of it.
Speaker 2: Give us your thoughts, sir, on just what you think
Speaker 2: is going on with this phenomenon.
Speaker 3: You know, I know this is a boring answer that
Speaker 3: nobody likes, but I try to remain agnostic about it.
Speaker 3: You know, I think it's it's incontrovertible that lots of
Speaker 3: people see things in the sky they can't explain, or
Speaker 3: have experiences that they can't explain. That that that's been
Speaker 3: true for decades and decades at least. But I haven't
Speaker 3: seen anything that convinces me that one explanation is the explanation,
Speaker 3: or that the explanation is necessarily extraterrestrials. Myself, I know
Speaker 3: that's not something we totally agree on, but I try
Speaker 3: to keep my mind open to all the possibilities.
Speaker 2: So you're not leaning that way toward extraterrestrial ill possibilities,
Speaker 2: not yet anyway.
Speaker 3: No, I'm not. I would I wouldn't say I'm leaning
Speaker 3: that way, no, but I would say that I don't.
Speaker 3: You know, I don't rule it out. I don't really
Speaker 3: rule anything out except maybe, like, you know, vampires playing
Speaker 3: UFOs or something. I think that was pretty unlikely, but
Speaker 3: who knows.
Speaker 2: Well, what about the title of your book? They are
Speaker 2: already here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's the question. I get a lot. I
Speaker 3: probably should have titled is something different because I'm going
Speaker 3: to be so agnostic. But I think you know that
Speaker 3: that is something that I heard. You know, I come
Speaker 3: from the science journalism background, and so I have written
Speaker 3: and studied more on the search for extraterrestrial intelligence before
Speaker 3: I started looking at UFOs. And so when I would
Speaker 3: talk about that works to people who were very into UFOs,
Speaker 3: and I would say, you know, there's these scientists searching
Speaker 3: for alien life out there, looking for their radio broadcasts,
Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. They would say, you know, why
Speaker 3: are they doing that. They're already here, And so it
Speaker 3: was just it was just a that I heard a
Speaker 3: lot that kind of stuck with me.
Speaker 2: One of your other books is called Making Contact, about
Speaker 2: the astronomer Jill Tarter. She's seventy nine years old, but
Speaker 2: she's best known for her work on the Search for
Speaker 2: extraterrestrial intelligence. Tell me how you keyed in on her.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that started back to when I was
Speaker 3: about twelve years old, which was in the movie Contact
Speaker 3: came out and I realized that, you know, that makes
Speaker 3: it pretty old now. So it's a movie about astronomers
Speaker 3: who are looking for radio signals from extraterrestrial civilizations, and
Speaker 3: there's an astronomer who's the main character who finds a signal,
Speaker 3: and that person is based on the real life Jill Tarter,
Speaker 3: and so I saw this movie when I was twelve
Speaker 3: years old. I didn't know that radio waves came from space.
Speaker 3: I didn't know that it was anyone's job to look
Speaker 3: for aliens, and I thought it was so cool that
Speaker 3: somebody got to ask these big questions about the universe
Speaker 3: and get paid for it. So I was just obsessed
Speaker 3: with her back then. And so then when I grew
Speaker 3: up to be a writer and needed a book topic,
Speaker 3: I thought, well, what about that. I think I've kind
Speaker 3: of always been obsessed with in that person whose work
Speaker 3: iye was really interested in.
Speaker 2: What do you think people Sarah are seeing? What are
Speaker 2: they what are they spotting?
Speaker 3: I mean, I think, at a at a basic level,
Speaker 3: just a descriptive level, I think what people most see
Speaker 3: are lights in the sky that behave in ways that
Speaker 3: other lights in the sky that they have seen have
Speaker 3: not behaved. Something anomalous, is something unidentified, something that makes
Speaker 3: them notice. And uh, yeah, I don't I mean, I don't,
Speaker 3: you know, subscribe to the extraterrestrial hypothesis. But I don't
Speaker 3: doubt that people are seeing strange things. I've seen strange things.
Speaker 3: I'm sure you've seen strange things. There's a lot of
Speaker 3: strange things going on up there.
Speaker 2: Well, there they are, and as there's a high likelihood
Speaker 2: as far as I'm concerned, that's they could be extraterrestrial,
Speaker 2: But we just can't prove it yet, can we.
Speaker 3: No, it would be nice if that was the case,
Speaker 3: that they would just land for a second and let
Speaker 3: us say hi and see who's driving.
Speaker 2: The ship and come out and say hi to the world.
Speaker 2: But for some reason they don't do that. Why not?
Speaker 3: See, that's why we have to get them to land
Speaker 3: so we can ask them that kind of question. I
Speaker 3: don't have that answer.
Speaker 2: If you could investigate this, how would you start again?
Speaker 2: Where would you go? Would you go to the Pentagon?
Speaker 2: What would you do?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think, well, you know, now it's kind of
Speaker 3: different from when I started first investigating because there are
Speaker 3: a number of official governmental studies. Either we have the
Speaker 3: Pentagon and it's Arrow Office is what it's called. And
Speaker 3: then you know there's a NASA study on UAP and
Speaker 3: so I think if I were if I were starting
Speaker 3: my investigation now, I would go there because those organizations
Speaker 3: are going to be collecting kind of systematic data, analyzing
Speaker 3: it critically, and producing produce. Well, I guess the Pentagon
Speaker 3: probably won't be producing reports we can all see, but
Speaker 3: they have the most resources, and so I think I
Speaker 3: would start there. But I also think, you know, it's
Speaker 3: important to talk to people who don't work for the
Speaker 3: government about their own experiences and things like that. So
Speaker 3: I would maybe start start at the data driven level,
Speaker 3: but still go down to the personal level.
Speaker 2: In terms of investigating what do you think we need
Speaker 2: to do on this subject matter?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, you know, when I think about this,
Speaker 3: I think about what did happen with the Search for
Speaker 3: Extraterrestrial Intelligence study or you know, looking for radio broadcasts
Speaker 3: in this guy, which is what led people to take
Speaker 3: it seriously and for it to become you know, a
Speaker 3: kind of mainstream scientific topic, was for people to create
Speaker 3: surveys where you know, they were like, we're going to
Speaker 3: survey this part of the sky looking for these frequencies
Speaker 3: at these times at these places, and then we're going
Speaker 3: to publish it. And so I think it's kind of
Speaker 3: you know, systemizing it and creating consistent data. And I
Speaker 3: think if if this topic wants to move more into
Speaker 3: the mainstream and be taken up by different people, like
Speaker 3: that is a direction that it could go, and we
Speaker 3: have plenty of sensors that can collect that kind of
Speaker 3: data as we see from there were a couple of
Speaker 3: videos released yesterday or the day before or whatever the
Speaker 3: hearing was, and so you know, there's a lot that's
Speaker 3: out there that we could look at.
Speaker 2: Aren't you working on a book on nuclear weapons and scientists?
Speaker 3: Yes? I sure, Yeah, in the past couple of years
Speaker 3: going to uh labs run by the National Nuclear Security
Speaker 3: Administration and talking to people who work on nuclear weapons
Speaker 3: and adjacent topics.
Speaker 2: Have you ever interviewed anybody who was at a nuke
Speaker 2: base who witnessed UFOs shutting down missile silos?
Speaker 3: Uh? No, I have not. My book stuff was mostly
Speaker 3: focusing on the Department of Energy side of things more
Speaker 3: than the Department of Defense side of things, and so
Speaker 3: I didn't I didn't end up out there, but it
Speaker 3: would be interesting to talk to for sure.
Speaker 2: Vast universe, What are the possibilities that there's extraterrestrial life
Speaker 2: out there? In your opinion?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I kind of go back and forth. I've spent
Speaker 3: most of my life thinking, you know, like you said,
Speaker 3: the universe is vast. Now we know there's a whole
Speaker 3: bunch of planets. Now we know that even puny little
Speaker 3: earth organisms can live all kinds of places. It would
Speaker 3: kind of be crazy if there was nothing else out
Speaker 3: there in the universe. But you know, then, sometimes I
Speaker 3: talked to biologists who say, you know, we don't even
Speaker 3: know how life started here. How could we possibly know
Speaker 3: how likely it is to start somewhere else? It could
Speaker 3: be very unlikely. Maybe we're the only ones out there.
Speaker 3: And so I've actually gone back to that kind of
Speaker 3: boring agnostic answer on that too, and that we just
Speaker 3: we don't know, but it would be awfully strange. I
Speaker 3: do think if we're the only one.
Speaker 2: Well, if you take God out of the equation for
Speaker 2: just a moment, you then are puzzled by the universe
Speaker 2: and how it starts. I still, Sarah, of all the
Speaker 2: physicists and earth scientists that I've interviewed, I haven't gotten
Speaker 2: the right answer yet on how things started. They can't
Speaker 2: explain the Big Bang. Nobody can't.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know what came before or the Big Bang?
Speaker 2: And how could you have something before? Nothing? Right?
Speaker 3: Right? Right? I think there is a book that I
Speaker 3: haven't read that that has a title of something like
Speaker 3: that that tries to explain it, but I can't give
Speaker 3: the answer because I haven't read the book, So but
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Do you know who the author is by any chance?
Speaker 3: No? But maybe I can look it up during one
Speaker 3: of the breaks.
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, I'll find out about that. That's one of
Speaker 2: the biggest questions. So when you put together they're already
Speaker 2: here making contact. What was your premise? What were you
Speaker 2: going after?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think with making contact, I was trying to
Speaker 3: just capture what it's like to be a scientist, spending
Speaker 3: your whole life on a question of life in the
Speaker 3: universe that a lot of other scientists didn't take seriously,
Speaker 3: and just trying to solve a mystery that you thought
Speaker 3: you probably wouldn't be able to solve in your lifetime,
Speaker 3: but kind of trying to contribute to a big a
Speaker 3: bigger project humanity. And and they're already here. I was
Speaker 3: talking to people who are interested in UFOs from lots
Speaker 3: of different vantage points, some of them kind of spiritual,
Speaker 3: some of them kind of political, some some kind of conspiratorial,
Speaker 3: but they are all also united by kind of the
Speaker 3: same thing that motivates study scientists, which is here's here's
Speaker 3: a big mystery. It's been around for a while, no
Speaker 3: one has solved it. Probably I won't either, but I'm
Speaker 3: going to like put my effort towards trying to figure
Speaker 3: it out. And so I think that, to me is
Speaker 3: the premise that unites them is trying to solve a
Speaker 3: really hard problem that probably takes many generations.
Speaker 2: Sir, what do you think happened in July of nineteen
Speaker 2: forty seven and Roswell, New Mexico?
Speaker 3: For me for that one? You know, I'm probably an
Speaker 3: unpopular opinion over here, but I see that and nuclear
Speaker 3: test detector fell to theirs and was part of a
Speaker 3: cover up, And so I guess I buy the cover
Speaker 3: up story of the cover up.
Speaker 2: I think like a balloon or pieces like that.
Speaker 3: Huh yeah, yeah, balloon carrying a sensor crashed to the
Speaker 3: ground if somebody found it around the same time that
Speaker 3: other people were talking about UFOs, and that became the story.
Speaker 3: But I also wasn't there.
Speaker 2: So what do you think of uphologists who are dedicating
Speaker 2: their careers to trying to get this answer of whether
Speaker 2: we're alone?
Speaker 3: I think it's a very worthwhile question. I think it's
Speaker 3: one of the most important questions that humans can ask
Speaker 3: and you know it has within it like where did
Speaker 3: we come from? How did we get here? What is
Speaker 3: the point of anything? I think that it's it's kind
Speaker 3: of the all encompassing question are we alone? And so
Speaker 3: I full respect from me to figuring that out.
Speaker 2: I'm going to put you on the spot. Do you
Speaker 2: believe in life? Life after death?
Speaker 3: I do not personally know what's your what's your take?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Of course I think it's there's something there again, what
Speaker 2: it is, how it got here and all that. Taking
Speaker 2: God out of the equation for a moment is baffling,
Speaker 2: to be sure, But I think there's there's something there.
Speaker 2: Too many people have witnessed too many strange occurrences for
Speaker 2: me not to believe that there's something else out there.
Speaker 2: Do you believe in God? And no?
Speaker 3: But I think I mean for both, for both God
Speaker 3: and the afterlife. I you know, I will say that
Speaker 3: I found a lot of my youth being you know,
Speaker 3: pretty black and white and atheistic about both of those.
Speaker 3: But I would say I I tend on those questions
Speaker 3: to be more like I am about UFOs or life
Speaker 3: in the UNI. Like maybe I think there's not life
Speaker 3: after death, but I honestly cannot.
Speaker 2: Know that, so you're more agnostic. You're looking for the
Speaker 2: answers as opposed to doing an atheist who just doesn't
Speaker 2: believe at all.
Speaker 3: Right, right, Yeah, and yeah, I wouldn't say that's me.
Speaker 3: I would say I think I don't know anything.
Speaker 2: In general, while you were probably like the majority of
Speaker 2: scientists who just want proof.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a fair a fair assessment.
Speaker 2: What about faith, though, At what point does faith come
Speaker 2: in and you have to tap into that because of
Speaker 2: the lack of proof?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think I would say, what makes
Speaker 3: you have to? Like I think I think if I
Speaker 3: wanted to have a firm or belief in something it
Speaker 3: didn't have firm proof, then I would have to tap
Speaker 3: into faith. I kind of I feel pretty okay living
Speaker 3: my life feeling like I don't know very much. That's
Speaker 3: that's that's pay with me.
Speaker 2: Lots of pilots I've witnessing strange things. They don't know
Speaker 2: what's happening. Navy pilots of course, with the tic TAC videos.
Speaker 2: Did you ever see that.
Speaker 3: By the way, Yeah, definitely many times.
Speaker 2: I Mean, clearly there's something that they're tracking and they
Speaker 2: can't keep up with it. They don't know what it is.
Speaker 2: They could not see it's extraterrestrial, they could not say
Speaker 2: it's Russian, they could not say it's Chinese. But they
Speaker 2: all but they all agree that they don't know what
Speaker 2: they are. So they've got to be something. No, No,
Speaker 2: it's got to be something.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I think it's just with service members,
Speaker 3: just just like with other people who see things. I
Speaker 3: think they are seeing things, but I also think, you know,
Speaker 3: I was, I was just listening to the Pentagon UAP
Speaker 3: Office hearing right before this, and even the leader of
Speaker 3: that said, you know, human sensors and human made sensors
Speaker 3: to the brain and the instruments in fighter jets all
Speaker 3: can be subject to misperceptions or things like that. And
Speaker 3: I think that, yeah, that that It doesn't mean that
Speaker 3: people don't see things, but I think we don't always
Speaker 3: see your interpret things.
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