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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business of Sports.

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Speaker 2: Business of Sports can be intimidating for hard for a

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Speaker 2: start to break into.

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Speaker 3: We really appreciate what our owners are actually better, you know,

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Speaker 3: with us through the journey.

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Speaker 4: Teams ours especially, then very intentional to diversify at all

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Speaker 4: levels of the company.

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Speaker 5: Maybe we're in the golden years for the NFL and

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Speaker 5: college football.

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Speaker 3: Our demographic reach has continued to expande.

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Speaker 4: This is going to be really unlocking the streaming platform

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Speaker 4: for sports fans.

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Speaker 1: Sports evaluations arising. We'll see when they peak.

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Speaker 3: You don't have to be the best in your sports

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Speaker 3: to make a whole ton of money.

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 2: Do you welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports Show?

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Speaker 2: We explore the big money issues in the world of

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Speaker 2: sports on Michael barn.

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Speaker 6: I'm Damian sas Hour, I'm an next promo.

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Speaker 2: Later, we hear from boxing promoter Todd the Buff about

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Speaker 2: the resurgence of boxing around the world. Plus Peter Sibner

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Speaker 2: of Elite Prospects explains how data and statistics are changing

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Speaker 2: the way NHL teams look at the draft.

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Speaker 7: Traditionally, hockey scouting was always pretty much like that Clin

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Speaker 7: Eastwood movie Trouble with a curve where you had basically

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Speaker 7: old guys going to rink and watching hockey players forever

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Speaker 7: and ever, and we've certainly seen a change in that area.

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Speaker 2: That's coming up a little bit later. First up, though,

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Speaker 2: we're joined by a Bloomberg Originals contributor. I've heard of

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Speaker 2: this guy before, Jason Kelly. He had a sit down

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Speaker 2: with the iron Man Cal Ripkin that we want to

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Speaker 2: hear all about. But Jason, we need to start with

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Speaker 2: news out of the NBA. My goodness, man, the NBA

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Speaker 2: they have agreed terms on a record eleven year, seventy

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Speaker 2: six billion dollars with a b media rights deal.

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Speaker 8: Jason, it's unbelievable. I mean, I got to say, you know,

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Speaker 8: this is like the worst kept secret obviously in all

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Speaker 8: of sports and media and business. But this has been

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Speaker 8: you know, long, long negotiated. I think you are seeing

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Speaker 8: all the elements of the new media world come together

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Speaker 8: in this. You've got Amazon Prime and Peacock with some

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Speaker 8: exclusive games. You've got obviously you know, some of the

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Speaker 8: big names coming back in and it is a huge

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Speaker 8: moment for the NBA to really establish itself, not quite

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Speaker 8: at NFL levels. But this is, as you say, just

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Speaker 8: such a massive step up from where they were before.

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Speaker 8: People are certainly taking.

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Speaker 5: Note of, Jason.

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Speaker 6: Is it fair that Luka Doncrich is going to be

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Speaker 6: getting paid eighty million dollars in the twenty thirty thirty

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Speaker 6: one season. I mean, this is unbelievable for the players,

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Speaker 6: for the player association, I mean, I'm assuming they have

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Speaker 6: to consider this a huge success totally.

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Speaker 8: I mean, and you hit the nail on the head

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Speaker 8: in terms of how the mass really works for these

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Speaker 8: big pro sports leagues, at least at the moment, media

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Speaker 8: rights drive the compensation or the athletes at the end

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Speaker 8: of the day, and the NBA you know, has probably

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Speaker 8: done as good a job as any in terms of

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Speaker 8: getting players paid. And so it is a it's it's

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Speaker 8: not a one to one. There's a direct correlation between

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Speaker 8: how much you can get paid to show your games

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Speaker 8: on TV and then how much the owners can can

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Speaker 8: pay the player.

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Speaker 9: You know.

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Speaker 10: The interesting thing for me, Jason is that you know,

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Speaker 10: we've seen the and the finals ratings drop, we see

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Speaker 10: all of this conversations still about who's going to take

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Speaker 10: over the leagu who's going in the new faces when

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Speaker 10: Lebron and staff retire and all this. But this is

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Speaker 10: eleven year deal. So does that mean broadcasters just aren't worried.

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Speaker 10: They don't they don't see us as an issue.

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Speaker 8: I don't think they are. I mean, it's a great question.

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Speaker 8: I don't think they are. I do think you know,

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Speaker 8: one of the great things that we saw in this

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Speaker 8: in this season, you know these finals where I think

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Speaker 8: very exciting. While you know the ratings are going to

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Speaker 8: move around a bit, it did feel like it was

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Speaker 8: a very, for lack of a better term, I'm going

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Speaker 8: to channel our colleague Tom King a little bit like

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Speaker 8: a very Zeit dasteat type of finals. You know, the Celtics,

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Speaker 8: you know, winning their eighteenth title, that's huge. You know

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Speaker 8: these emergent stars, you know I you know a name

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Speaker 8: that we've talked about on this show before, Anthony Edwards,

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Speaker 8: you know, and the Timberwolves making a pretty deep run.

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Speaker 8: You look at what Ant is doing in terms of

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Speaker 8: sort of capturing the imagination. That's huge. And you do

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Speaker 8: have this, you know, this new set of exciting players

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Speaker 8: who are coming along. I mean, look, and you know

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Speaker 8: you talked about Lebron moving on, but Lebron and Bronny,

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Speaker 8: you know, potentially playing together next seas. I mean, that's

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Speaker 8: that's good. That's good television, guys.

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Speaker 6: So I think there's a lot of move forward to

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Speaker 6: So Jason, one last question here. Commissioner Silver was very

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Speaker 6: very clear of the top agenda items in recent seasons.

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Speaker 6: You know, we needed a new CBA, we needed a

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Speaker 6: new media deal for the NBA, and only then could

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Speaker 6: we turn our attention to expansion. So talk to us

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Speaker 6: about some of the cities that are in the running here.

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Speaker 6: I mean, are we really going to see some new

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Speaker 6: franchises join the NBA.

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Speaker 8: I think we will, undoubt at least see some. It's

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Speaker 8: funny I'm talking to you from Seattle. I'm here for

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Speaker 8: the b S. Green Festival and we'll be talking with

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Speaker 8: some sports folks, to be talking to Jim Coulter from

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Speaker 8: TPG about all his climate investing. Seattle is ready to rock, guys.

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Speaker 8: Was the ded back obviously the SuperSonics. We're an iconic

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Speaker 8: franchise for a long time. Seattle is top of the list.

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Speaker 8: And then the one that everybody's talking about. I know

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Speaker 8: you're gonna love this bar Vegas. It is the sports

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Speaker 8: town of the twenty first century in so many ways.

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Speaker 8: The Kraken here had been successful in Seattle, but there

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Speaker 8: is nothing compared in the NHL to the Golden Knights

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Speaker 8: in Vegas and what they've really ignited. You always have

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Speaker 8: the Raiders there. Now you have the A's moving eventually

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Speaker 8: to Vegas. And you know, we talked about Lebron a lot.

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Speaker 8: We've already mentioned him a couple of times. When he retires.

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Speaker 8: He's said his partners at Fenway Group and he are

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Speaker 8: very very keen on getting that Vegas franchise. So I

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Speaker 8: think those are the two that are most likely to happen, Damien.

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Speaker 8: And the big question is going to be how much

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Speaker 8: did they go for in terms of the price tag.

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Speaker 8: You know, you hear people talk about five, five and

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Speaker 8: a half six billion dollars. What's really interesting, going back

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Speaker 8: to the Celtics for a second, is we are going

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Speaker 8: to have a new comp because the Celtics, as you know,

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Speaker 8: are for sale and there is speculation that we could

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Speaker 8: see five and a half six billion dollars for that franchise.

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Speaker 8: And I mean these are I popping numbers. Just to

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Speaker 8: put it in context, the Boston Celtics were bought less

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Speaker 8: than twenty years ago for about three hundred and fifty

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Speaker 8: three hundred and sixty million dollars, and then they're going

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Speaker 8: to get sold for five and a half or six.

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Speaker 8: That's unbelievable, unbelievable turn on investment.

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Speaker 6: You know, Michael Barr, you knows Chason Kelly just made

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Speaker 6: a lot of men up in Montreal really unhappy. But

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Speaker 6: mentioning Vegas and Seattle over those explos you know. So

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Speaker 6: I'm just you know, I'm going to leave it at that.

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Speaker 2: A lot I know is all bug Tussele, Tennessee is

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Speaker 2: all upset. Now man shut out again. Hey you talk

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Speaker 2: to the iron Man, Gal Ripkin, and boy, it's he's

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Speaker 2: one of the players I've always admired. Keep his baseball

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Speaker 2: card under wraps because I love the guy. Tell us

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Speaker 2: a bit about the Cal Ripken interview you did, Yeah.

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Speaker 8: Thanks, Uh, it was it was super exciting. It was funny,

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Speaker 8: you know, as you guys know, I host the show

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Speaker 8: with Alex rodriguez'm Bloomberg called the Deal, and he and

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Speaker 8: I were talking about it just recently, and and Alex

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Speaker 8: told me something that I didn't know, which was that

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Speaker 8: he Alex had a poster of Cal Ripkin like on

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Speaker 8: his wall growing up. I mean so for for some

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Speaker 8: of the greatest players of all time and for regular

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Speaker 8: schmos like all of us. He's iconic. Cal Ripkin. I

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Speaker 8: mean he really is. And you know, one of the

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Speaker 8: things that's important to remember about him, I think is

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Speaker 8: that when we go back to the mid nineties, when

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Speaker 8: he was going for that streak and setting that new

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Speaker 8: record and breaking Lou Garrett's unbreakable record, he saved baseball.

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Speaker 8: We were coming out of a lockout and all eyes

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Speaker 8: got to be on this guy that everyone loved. I mean,

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Speaker 8: there's no one who's like count Risk any seems like

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Speaker 8: a jerk like that just doesn't happen. What he's doing now, guys,

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Speaker 8: which is so interesting is he is investing heavily and

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Speaker 8: with some big Wall Street names in youth sports, and

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Speaker 8: specifically his Ripkin Baseball is now part of a massive,

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Speaker 8: essentially youth sports empire.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, let's talk about that, Jason.

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Speaker 10: You know, I have a lot of you know, experience

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Speaker 10: with these sports, and you know, I've worked with you

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Speaker 10: a lot on this story.

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Speaker 9: And when this story, you know, it took me by

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Speaker 9: so surprised.

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Speaker 10: You know, when we were talking about it, we were

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Speaker 10: talking about your kids, and I'm talking about my experience

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Speaker 10: in the in the market, and I'm like thanking my

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Speaker 10: parents because I'm like, what the heck.

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Speaker 9: As you guys do to pay for me to do

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Speaker 9: all this stuff?

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Speaker 7: You know.

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Speaker 10: And then when I think about I'm the two percent

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Speaker 10: of kids that go through the system and actually make it.

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Speaker 9: To Division one.

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Speaker 10: So when you're looking at that, and the number that

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Speaker 10: really struck me in the piece was the seven percent

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Speaker 10: of families that spend over twelve thousand dollars on youth sports.

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Speaker 10: What does what did col say about all of that

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Speaker 10: and and his you know vision going into that sort

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Speaker 10: of a market being's taken over by private equity.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, it's a great question. First of all, shout out

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Speaker 8: to you for your flex about just dropping your d well.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, I had a flex on myself a little bit.

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Speaker 8: Top two. You know, no big deal is it is?

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Speaker 8: The question VP about youth sports, I think is you know,

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Speaker 8: it's clearly a profitable business. It's clearly a growing business

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Speaker 8: for all the reasons that you just described. It's it

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Speaker 8: is interesting to talk to cow his brother Bill and

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Speaker 8: then their partner is David Blitzer and Josh Harris well

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Speaker 8: known names to you, guys who are arguably some of

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Speaker 8: the most influential investors in professional sports. They do see

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Speaker 8: a business case and a business necessity to your point, Vanessa,

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Speaker 8: for broader access, because it is very expensive, and so

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Speaker 8: in order to grow the market, they do have to

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Speaker 8: figure out how to make it more affordable, more accessible.

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Speaker 8: Part of what they're doing, and I talked to David

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Speaker 8: Blitzer about this for this piece, they're building, you know,

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Speaker 8: fields and facilities in closer into cities rather than in

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Speaker 8: the far suburbs to give access to different people who

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Speaker 8: might not have traditionally gotten access to that. They're expanding

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Speaker 8: the number of sports they're working on, so if you're

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Speaker 8: not into baseball, there's no sports. One of the terms

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Speaker 8: that I love learning about guys that you'll like is

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Speaker 8: it's not just diamond sports, but rectangle sports too. I

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Speaker 8: was like, Okay, well, that's kind of a good way

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Speaker 8: to put it. You know, as you're talking about football,

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Speaker 8: flag football is coming on very strong, less equipment necessary

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Speaker 8: for that. So I think their answer is higher access,

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Speaker 8: whether that is, you know, subsidizing some of the costs

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Speaker 8: of it and also widening the offering to appeal to

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Speaker 8: a broader market.

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Speaker 5: Jason.

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Speaker 6: You know, I'm on the other side of that equation here,

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Speaker 6: and I'll tell you what I mean by that. You know,

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Speaker 6: I suffered through double headers on Saturday and Sunday with

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Speaker 6: my son and the broiling heat up here in New York,

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Speaker 6: you know, And I see the burnout. I see the

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Speaker 6: risk for injury for young players. I see teenagers getting

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Speaker 6: Tommy John surgery. And I want to ask you. You know,

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Speaker 6: I've been to Aberdeen. I've I've been to the ripket experience.

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Speaker 6: I've seen those Wrigley and Fenway duplicates. It's awesome up there.

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Speaker 6: But my goodness, the demands that parents and that these

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Speaker 6: or that people are placing on on young athletes these days.

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Speaker 6: Did you ask Cal about anything about that? I mean,

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Speaker 6: what are they doing that helped deal with burnout, with injury?

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Speaker 5: With all of that?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, it is. I mean, you guys have just asked

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Speaker 8: the two big questions about this. You nailed it. And

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Speaker 8: you know, I, as a parent, I've seen a lot

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Speaker 8: of the same stuff. Damien. You know, it's interesting to

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Speaker 8: talk to Cal about it because you know the guy

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Speaker 8: who he lived it. He grew up in baseball, obviously,

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Speaker 8: but you know, he's the first to say that. You know,

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Speaker 8: one of the ways to combat that, especially for you know,

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Speaker 8: good athletes who are playing baseball, at lacrosse or football,

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Speaker 8: is to resist as much as you can the temptation

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Speaker 8: toward total specialization. And now obviously there's a lot of

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Speaker 8: pressure to do that right now, to play one sport

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Speaker 8: year round, I think, and Vanessa can can weigh on

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Speaker 8: this as an experienced college athlete, I think a lot

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Speaker 8: of coaches, and my son's college coach would would say this.

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Speaker 8: They're looking for players who a you know, are obviously

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Speaker 8: very good at their chosen sport, but also have played

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Speaker 8: other sports to balance them out physically, but also mentally

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Speaker 8: and emotionally, to you know, to be a part of

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Speaker 8: a team to maybe you know, try something that they're

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Speaker 8: not the very best at. You know, my son, for instance,

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Speaker 8: played basketball and he was not a starter, but you know,

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Speaker 8: he was the star of the lacrosse team. So that's

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Speaker 8: one element to it.

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Speaker 11: You know.

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Speaker 8: I do think and not to get you know, to

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Speaker 8: woo woo about it, Damien, but I do think one

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Speaker 8: of the things that cal Ripkin and his brother and

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Speaker 8: what they're trying to represent with Ripkin baseball and across

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Speaker 8: the broader unrivaled sports umbrella is and Cal really does represent.

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Speaker 8: This is this sort of love of the game. You

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Speaker 8: know that at the core of it is thinking about

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Speaker 8: the entire human being. And again to point to Vanessa,

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Speaker 8: it's like you can speak to this notion of what

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Speaker 8: sports can do for you, even if you're not going

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Speaker 8: to be a professional player, even if you're not going

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Speaker 8: to be a college player. You know, the notion of

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Speaker 8: being on a team, winning and losing, taking feedback, being coachable,

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Speaker 8: you know, understanding all of those elements that you know

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Speaker 8: make you a good human, make you a good, candidly

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Speaker 8: successful business person. I think that is very much at

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Speaker 8: the core of it. And that and the last thing

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Speaker 8: that I would say is the longer after than you

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Speaker 8: were bargaining for. But the last thing that I would

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Speaker 8: say about Cal is he is very conscious. He and Bill,

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Speaker 8: his brother, both very conscious that their name, the Risken name,

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Speaker 8: is arguably the most famous surname in baseball. I think

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Speaker 8: we could agree, and they they want to do everything

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Speaker 8: they can to protect that, and so I think that

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Speaker 8: is on their minds a lot as they grow at

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Speaker 8: what they think is the right pace and attract the

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Speaker 8: right people and understand that. You know, for a lot

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Speaker 8: of kids, this is going to be something they do

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Speaker 8: as a you know, a pre team, a team, and

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Speaker 8: it's going to help shape the rest of their life.

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Speaker 8: But they don't need to focus on being a professional.

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Speaker 10: I think that that's the thing that you know, is

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Speaker 10: getting lost in this system for sure, you know, when

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Speaker 10: you're talking about hyper specialization. I played five sports in

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Speaker 10: high school, like I can't even and it made me

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Speaker 10: a better athlete, you know, and like you, like you

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Speaker 10: said with your son, and yes, I wasn't the best

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Speaker 10: at every single one of them, but I was a

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Speaker 10: goalkeeper in soccer, every single goalkeeper in my area, played basketball,

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Speaker 10: Like it just made you a more well rounded athlete.

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Speaker 10: And it just doesn't make sense for that, and like

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Speaker 10: you said, it makes you a well rounded person. And

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Speaker 10: I think that that's the fear that a lot of

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Speaker 10: people have. And also the problem is I talked to

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Speaker 10: some of my friends about this who are like putting

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Speaker 10: their kids in sports now, and they're like, well, yeah,

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Speaker 10: we're just gonna put them in AAU and like do

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Speaker 10: they are they good?

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Speaker 9: Like do they want to play AAU?

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Speaker 8: You know?

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Speaker 9: They they're just being pushed into this and.

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Speaker 10: I'm like, oh, you're it's never played before at eleven,

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Speaker 10: You're going to put them in this extremely expensive thing. No,

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Speaker 10: just just go play sports and go love It's that's

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Speaker 10: that's what's getting lost. And I think that that's what

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Speaker 10: you know, the author who was in your piece was

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Speaker 10: really trying to get at She was also an athlete,

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Speaker 10: but she was like, there needs to be kind of

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Speaker 10: just two things. And I think that's what Kaw was saying, right.

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Speaker 10: There needs to be the love of the game, and

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Speaker 10: there is those people who are gonna go play professional

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Speaker 10: and this is you know, that path for them.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, and it'll be interesting to see where it goes

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Speaker 8: just on that point. You know, Damian, I think, you know,

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Speaker 8: to sort of synthesize what you guys are saying, you know,

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Speaker 8: part of it is we as parents, candidly being aware

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Speaker 8: of it. And I feel like for a bit of

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Speaker 8: time people are like, well, this is what you have

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Speaker 8: to do. You have to spend the money, and it's

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Speaker 8: all about scholarships and it's all about this. I do

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Speaker 8: think the fact that candidly we're having conversations like this

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Speaker 8: and that the you know, the coaches and the teams

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Speaker 8: and the leagues are more aware of it. I hope

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Speaker 8: we'll start to move the conversation one because, like you said,

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Speaker 8: Tommy John surgery for a sophomore in high school. I mean,

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Speaker 8: that's insane.

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Speaker 2: I've got to be the luckiest dude in broadcasting. I'm

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Speaker 2: working with Jason Kelly, I'm working with div One Vanessa Pernomo.

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Speaker 2: I'm working also with Damien Sassour, and they all get

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Speaker 2: to work with fall Gorn Leghorn. Thank you, man, Jason,

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Speaker 2: you are the man. Thank you again, Bloomberg's Originals contributor

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Speaker 2: Jason Kelly, speaking of that Cal Ripken interview, we want

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Speaker 2: to bring you now a snippet of the latest edition

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Speaker 2: of Bloomberg Originals, Power Players.

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Speaker 12: Sometimes they say baseball is dying in a way from

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Speaker 12: a youth standpoint, less people are playing, But the less

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Speaker 12: people are playing, more of them are playing more baseball.

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Speaker 13: It's a strange but true fact about youth sports.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 13: Overall participation in team sports has been declined over the

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Speaker 13: last decade. The youth sports industry has actually been growing massively,

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Speaker 13: reaching an estimated market value of thirty seven point five

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Speaker 13: billion dollars in twenty twenty two, and forecasters believe that

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Speaker 13: number can double by twenty thirty. More money to be made,

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Speaker 13: needs more money. Is chasing the dream and the profits,

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Speaker 13: and right at the center of the action is one

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Speaker 13: of the best known names in all of sports. He's

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Speaker 13: taken his trademark grinding approach to building a youth sports empire.

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Speaker 12: The haberteam. All right, is it hot on that turf today?

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Speaker 13: Talking about the iron Man himself, Cal Ripkin Junior.

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Speaker 12: I feel like the potential is greater than it's ever been.

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Speaker 12: We looked at it as sort of a small business

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Speaker 12: that we're trying to give the kids a chance. Now

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Speaker 12: the potential is limitless.

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Speaker 13: Kel's teamed up with his brother Bill to bring their

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Speaker 13: shared love of the game to young ballplayers across the country.

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Speaker 13: The Ripkins goal look after both the players and the parents'

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Speaker 13: interests and keep them coming back by providing a major

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Speaker 13: league experience.

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Speaker 12: I feel like the potential is greater than it's ever been.

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Speaker 12: You know, you have these dreams and your thoughts, and

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Speaker 12: you think that you can do it, you know, just

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Speaker 12: by you know, putting your effort in. But it's a

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Speaker 12: little more complicated than that. There is a growing need

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Speaker 12: and a growing value, and it's a it can be

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Speaker 12: a much bigger business. We looked at it as sort

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Speaker 12: of a small business that we're trying to give kids

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Speaker 12: a chance, and now you know, the potential is limitless.

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Speaker 2: That's Cal Ripkin speaking with Bloomberg Originals contributor Jason Kelly

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Speaker 2: for the latest edition of Power Players. I'm Michael Barr

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Speaker 2: with Vanessa Perdomo and Damian Sasaur. Coming up next on

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Speaker 2: the show, we look into how the National Hockey League

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Speaker 2: is leveraging data to improve their draft fix. That is

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Speaker 2: straight ahead on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. Don't forget

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Speaker 2: catch out with podcasts on all your podcast platforms and

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Speaker 2: right here on Bloomberger Radio. Around the world.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports show where we

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Speaker 2: explored the big money issues in the world of sports.

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Speaker 2: Michael Barb with Scarlett Food. Damien will join us just

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Speaker 2: a bit later on in the show when we hear

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Speaker 2: from boxing promoter Todd the Buff about the resurgence of

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Speaker 2: boxing around the world.

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Speaker 3: You know, I think people forget about it once in

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Speaker 3: a while, and I think that what we've seen is

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Speaker 3: is just getting it, you know, understanding its global appeal

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Speaker 3: which is just so compelling, getting the characters and the

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Speaker 3: personalities out there, and obviously getting it, you know.

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Speaker 5: On a broadly distributed network.

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Speaker 3: Which really helps, you know, pull it a little bit

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Speaker 3: back from the paywall.

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Speaker 5: Days and try to get it back to where the

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Speaker 5: NFL and.

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Speaker 3: NBA and Major League Baseball sit and put it on

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Speaker 3: those big networks.

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Speaker 2: That is coming up just a little later. First up, though,

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Speaker 2: we're joined by Peter Sibner. He's the president of ESMG

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Speaker 2: North America of Elite Prospects. They are the world's leading

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Speaker 2: ice hockey information resource. Peter, Welcome to the Bloomberg Business

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Speaker 2: of Sports.

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Speaker 7: Thank you very much, such a pleasure to be here.

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Speaker 2: I want to talk about some of the surprises in

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Speaker 2: this past NHL draft, but I think the biggest one

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Speaker 2: to me, all of a sudden, I saw Celene Dion

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Speaker 2: come out and give one of the announcements. I couldn't

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Speaker 2: believe it.

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Speaker 7: Well, you know, the NHL have been they had a

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Speaker 7: pretty bad track record for a long time with not

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Speaker 7: getting the A list celebrities to any of their events,

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Speaker 7: but they certainly have improved over the last few years,

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Speaker 7: so nowadays it's you never really know what to expect.

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Speaker 4: They definitely made it into a big show, right They

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Speaker 4: held it at the Sphere, which just added this extra

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Speaker 4: element of showbiz that perhaps previous drafts lacked, especially because

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Speaker 4: previous drafts are always in the rink, and it fell

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Speaker 4: like a smaller version of the game. Talk a little

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Speaker 4: bit about how much analytics was involved from your standpoint

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Speaker 4: when it came to drafting.

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Speaker 7: The topics, Well, so it certainly has changed. I mean,

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Speaker 7: traditionally hockey scouting was always pretty much like that Clin

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Speaker 7: Eastwood movie Trouble with a Curve, where you had basically

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Speaker 7: old guys go into rink and watching hockey players forever

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Speaker 7: and ever, and we've certainly seen a change in that area.

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Speaker 7: We run a pretty big scouting department ourselves. We have

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Speaker 7: at any given time fifteen to twenty scouts watching just

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Speaker 7: about every talent in the world. And it certainly relies

437
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,640
Speaker 7: on way more analytics now than it did, certainly ten

438
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 7: years ago, but even five years ago. So the metrics

439
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 7: are certainly improving, the data that is available is improving,

440
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 7: and the technology is improving. So obviously now the NHL

441
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 7: will be going to a virtual draft for the foreseeable future,

442
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 7: at least for next year. So holding this year's draft,

443
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 7: it's a sphere. I think was a really cool way

444
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 7: to go out And if you ask me, I think

445
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 7: the NHL will we'll be back to a live in

446
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 7: arena draft within just a couple of years.

447
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:13,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to expand on that you're talking about

448
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 2: a virtual draft. I mean, it's this goes way beyond it.

449
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,399
Speaker 2: To touch off what you said earlier about the old,

450
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 2: late great Bob Probert days is like, can you beat

451
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 2: up somebody? Okay, he's on the team. That was Yeah,

452
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 2: the metric back then, and as you've said, things have changed.

453
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 7: They certainly have, and also the type of player they're

454
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 7: now drafting. First of all, they know way more about

455
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 7: the player they have, you know, they increased the amount

456
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 7: of hours they study the player, and they also draft

457
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 7: different player types because the game has changed at a

458
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 7: rapid pace over the last few years. And you know,

459
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 7: size and muscle is not really just a thing anymore.

460
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 7: It's it's so many components goes into becoming an a

461
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 7: level hockey player these days.

462
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, shout out to the smaller players who maybe a

463
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 4: decade or twenty years ago it felt like they didn't

464
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 4: have a chance, but now there is definitely a role

465
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 4: a place for the smaller skilled players. Can you tell

466
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 4: me a little bit about the tools that the teams

467
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 4: the franchises are using now that differs from what they use,

468
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 4: like you said five years ago, when analytics was certainly

469
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 4: becoming a more important part of their scouting efforts, but

470
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 4: it maybe has not come to dominate things the way

471
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 4: they have now.

472
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 7: No, and really, I mean the technology and the data

473
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 7: it was there ten years ago. I think it's a

474
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 7: maturation process of maturing within the organization. Now every NHL

475
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 7: team have analytics personnel. They have people who can build

476
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 7: like we have our API where we have every hockey

477
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 7: player in the world and the majority of the NHL

478
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 7: teams use it now to keep track of every hockey

479
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,360
Speaker 7: player that pops up on their list. So the analytics

480
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 7: guys have a much more important seed at the table

481
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 7: now as relates to discussions as to what players to pick.

482
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 7: So I think the cultural shift in that was the

483
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 7: number one thing to happen because quite frankly, the data

484
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 7: has been there for a while and it was really

485
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 7: something that came up through social media. More and more

486
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 7: guys started figuring in social media who turned out to

487
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,639
Speaker 7: be really good at predicting whether players would become successful

488
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 7: or not. And I think the NHL teams it took

489
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 7: a while for them to catch on.

490
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 5: It was a.

491
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 7: Culture that needed to change. But now there's no discussion

492
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 7: anymore that analytics plays such a big role in terms

493
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 7: of building a successful franchise.

494
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 4: That's so interesting hearing about the feedback from hockey fans online,

495
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 4: especially on social media, helping to inform what the franchises

496
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 4: do themselves. Can you talk a little bit about the

497
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 4: data that you provide. Is it just raw data? And

498
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 4: the teams then take that raw data and create their

499
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 4: own algorithms in terms of waiting which skills or which

500
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 4: metrics they want to highlight or is that something that

501
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,199
Speaker 4: you'll do for them and you'll package it according to

502
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 4: each team's needs.

503
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 7: Well, we do it to a certain extent because we

504
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 7: put out a draft guide every year. This year, I

505
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 7: believe it was fourteen hundred pages, and we had somewhere

506
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 7: in the vicinity of four hundred players in that draft guide.

507
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 7: So we do provide a lot of detailed content on

508
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 7: the players that are likely to go in the draft.

509
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 7: But as far as our raw data the API, it's

510
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 7: basically we have close to one point one million hockey

511
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 7: players in our database. Obviously a bunch of them are retired,

512
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 7: but we start tracking players in North America from age

513
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 7: thirteen in Europe from age fourteen to fifteen. So when

514
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 7: the NHL clubs start looking at players usually around fifteen,

515
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 7: that player will always be in our database. So they

516
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 7: can pick up our data and use it to power

517
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 7: whatever talent management applications they choose. So one part of

518
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 7: that is the draft. Through our data, they can keep

519
00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 7: track of fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen year olds all over

520
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 7: the world. But they can also use it to track

521
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 7: players that they have already drafted or free agents that

522
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 7: they're looking to sign, and also run various comparables. So

523
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 7: we don't really know between the twenty five plus NHL

524
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 7: teams that are using our data, I'm not really sure

525
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 7: from club to club how they actually use it, but

526
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 7: they certainly use it to power all sorts of talent

527
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 7: management applications.

528
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 2: You got to give a shout out to the how

529
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 2: the whole thing started. You have about six million monthly

530
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 2: users now. But this whole thing started from a college

531
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 2: dorm room. Can you take us from how it grew

532
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 2: from that to what we have today.

533
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's quite the story. We actually will celebrate twenty

534
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 7: five years later this year, I believe in December, and

535
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 7: Johann Nilsen a high school student in Sweden at the time,

536
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 7: he is still with us. He is still our database manager.

537
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 7: He's still running day to day operations with everything that

538
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 7: goes into our database, so he's still working his dream

539
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 7: job twenty five years later. It started as a website

540
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 7: covering Swedish junior prospects, writing about them in English, catering

541
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 7: to the inner Yeah, very very specific. There was no

542
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,159
Speaker 7: such thing at the time, and he was dabbling with

543
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 7: HTML programming and put out this website and after a while,

544
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 7: you know, it just kind of snowball because a lot

545
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 7: of prospects fans started following because he was the number

546
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 7: one prospect guy coming out of Sweden at the time,

547
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 7: and all of a sudden, he started putting in statistics

548
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 7: on all these players, and then he started covering talents

549
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 7: from other places in Europe, and they kept adding more

550
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 7: and more statistics and kind of around two thousand and

551
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 7: five two thousand and six, it became more a statistics

552
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 7: database than straight up prospects coverage, and since then it

553
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 7: is basically just snowball. When I joined the company twelve

554
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 7: years ago, I think we had like two hundred thousand

555
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 7: unique visitors a week. Now we have one point six

556
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 7: million a week, about six million users, fifty million page

557
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 7: views a month. It has just snowballed because the hockey

558
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 7: community has caught on.

559
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 4: One thing that we should mention. As much as NHL

560
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 4: teams use the company's data, the consumer aspect of your

561
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 4: business is what's currently driving the company's growth. Can you

562
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 4: talk a little bit about which consumers are using your

563
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 4: data and in what way? Is it a case of

564
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 4: young players maybe playing junior hockey or they consider themselves prospects,

565
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 4: signing up for premium accounts and wanting to make sure

566
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 4: that all their statistics are available to anyone who is interested,

567
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 4: whether it's a university or a minor league team or

568
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 4: anything else.

569
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 7: It's a little bit of everything, because our key target

570
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 7: groups would basically be hockey fans and active players as

571
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 7: of right now, as it relates to our traffic and

572
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 7: who signs up for our premium subscriptions, it's about fifty

573
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 7: to fifty roughly nowadays. I can say traditionally it was

574
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 7: all hockey fans, but since we started at more and

575
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 7: more features for active players about five six years ago,

576
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 7: that is our number one fastest growing target audience right now,

577
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 7: active players, So at any lengk right now, we're at

578
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 7: any level, and right now we're talking about two things

579
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 7: when it comes to Elite prospect We want to be

580
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 7: the gateway to hockey. So we want to be a

581
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 7: platform where anyone can go and find whatever you need

582
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 7: about hockey, kind of like the Wikipedia or the IMDb

583
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 7: of hockey. But really the LinkedIn component is something that

584
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 7: has grown tremendously over the last few years, and we've

585
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 7: had one thousand percent growth in the company over the

586
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 7: past seven years pretty much for Elite prospects and the

587
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 7: majority of our new users would be active players. So

588
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 7: we're working with the Gateway to hockey and also the

589
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 7: online showcase where we allow aspiring young hockey players to

590
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 7: take control of their online persona, and that's where the

591
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 7: LinkedIn component sort of comes in.

592
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 2: That's Peter Sibner, the president of e SMG North America

593
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 2: of elite prospects. Peter, thanks for joining us.

594
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 7: Thank you so much, what a pleasure.

595
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 5: Guys.

596
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 2: Coming up next on the show, we're talking about the

597
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 2: resurgence of professional boxing with promoter Todd de Buff.

598
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 5: In all of sports, people go to the Olympics as

599
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 5: the pinnacle. It is I'm getting gold from my country

600
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 5: and this is this is it.

601
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 3: I'm on the weedie's box and everything in boxing, it's

602
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 3: like they go to the Olympics and their careers begin

603
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 3: right right after you become Sugar Ray Leonard or George

604
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 3: Foreman or Muhammad al Lead or Andre Ward or Floyd Mayweather.

605
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 5: But it's the beginning, it's the foundation.

606
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 2: That's straight ahead. On the Bloomberg Business of Sports And

607
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 2: don't forget to catch our podcast on all your podcast

608
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 2: platforms and right here on Bloomberg Radio.

609
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 1: Around the world, you're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports

610
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: from Bloomberg Radio.

611
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports Show, where we

612
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 2: explored the big money issues in the world of sports.

613
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 6: I'm Michael Barr, I'm and I'm Damien Sasauer.

614
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 2: Joining us now is Todd to Buff, the president of

615
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 2: Boxing promotion Top Rank. My man Welcome to the Bloomberg

616
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 2: Business of Sports, and let's talk boxing. Baby, It's coming back.

617
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 2: I hate to put it in this term as an

618
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 2: old man. I'm glad we talked about this before when

619
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 2: you were on you know, the Muhammad Ali days and

620
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 2: the Ernie Shaver days and all of that, and even

621
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 2: the sunny listing days. It's coming back.

622
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 3: Absolutely, it's you know, it's you know, I think people

623
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 3: forget about it once in a while, and I think

624
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 3: that what we've seen is is just getting it, you know,

625
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 3: understanding its global appeal which is just so compelling, getting

626
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 3: the characters and the personalities out there, and obviously getting it, you.

627
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 5: Know, on a broadly distributed network, which really.

628
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 3: Helps, you know, pull it a little bit back from

629
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 3: the paywall days and try to get it back to

630
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 3: where the NFL and NBA and Major League Baseball sit

631
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 3: and put it on those big networks.

632
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 6: We got to talk Olympics here. You know, it's almost time,

633
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 6: and you know there's word that you know, boxing might

634
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 6: not hold the special place in the hearts and souls

635
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 6: of the IOC for much longer. Talk to us a

636
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 6: little bit about boxing's future in the Olympics. I mean,

637
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 6: is it really in doubt. I mean, this is a

638
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 6: sport that's been I think a part of every Games

639
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 6: with the exception of one, since nineteen oh four.

640
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: Talk to us about that.

641
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 3: You know, this is a little bit of a dicey

642
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 3: one because it has been the foundation of the sport.

643
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 5: It has been the foundation.

644
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 3: Of our heroes, for global heroes all over the world.

645
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 3: I always say this, and it's kind of an interesting

646
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 3: way to look at it.

647
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 5: In all of sports, people go to the Olympics as

648
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 5: the pinnacle. It is I'm getting gold from my country

649
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 5: and this is this is it, I'm on the weed

650
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 5: 's box and everything. In boxing, it's like they go

651
00:33:58,080 --> 00:33:59,959
Speaker 5: to the Olympics and their.

652
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 3: Careers right right after it you become Sugar Ray Leonard

653
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 3: or George Foreman or Muhammad ad Lei or Andre.

654
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 5: Ward or Floyd Mayweather. But it's the beginning, it's the foundation.

655
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 5: So are there some issues that really scare us as

656
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,320
Speaker 5: people that are in the business on a global basis? Absolutely,

657
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:20,879
Speaker 5: But I.

658
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 3: Can't tell you what's going on because I really don't

659
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:25,320
Speaker 3: know enough about it.

660
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:30,320
Speaker 5: But we want to support a really strong amateur.

661
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 3: System and keep it in the Olympics as long as possible,

662
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 3: because it's been a wonderful, wonderful foundation for us.

663
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 11: And how do you think, you know, something like that

664
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:44,760
Speaker 11: would affect the overall professionalism of boxing if that amateur

665
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,919
Speaker 11: track was taken away and if it's not seen as this,

666
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 11: you know, incredible Olympic sport. Now you have these new

667
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,240
Speaker 11: sports coming in and taking away all this like speed

668
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 11: climbing and things like that, taking away some of the headlines.

669
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 11: But what would happen do you think if that was

670
00:34:58,520 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 11: taken away?

671
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 3: Well, I think what what happens is you would just

672
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 3: get these kids that are in amateur programs coming to

673
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 3: professional mounch earlier. We have like young kids like an

674
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 3: Abdulla Mason or x Anders Ayis that were US kids

675
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 3: that came out, or in Zis being from Puerto Rico

676
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 3: that decided to go pro at seventeen years old, right,

677
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 3: you know, Juniozzer Shavi is from Mexico's because they didn't

678
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 3: have a.

679
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 5: Big amateur system, went pro much younger. And I think

680
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 5: that's all that you would see is them turn into

681
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 5: the professional ranks way before that arc of maybe nineteen

682
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 5: or twenty or twenty one, like we've seen in.

683
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 2: The past, let's talk about now we've got some Saudi

684
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 2: money that is looking like it's going to come into

685
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 2: creating its own boxing league es according to a story

686
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 2: out of Reuters, Can you tell us more about that.

687
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 3: I think the last time we were on the show, we

688
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 3: talked about what the Saudi's investment was, largely being housing

689
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,800
Speaker 3: and breeding and hosting big events to bring to the

690
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 3: country as a place to draw tractions, tourism interest in

691
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,760
Speaker 3: the country, their whole twenty thirty vision plan. I think

692
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 3: that they see opportunity in the sport that obviously we

693
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 3: are talking about and we've seen, you know, for many

694
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,839
Speaker 3: years and we've talked about and have you even said

695
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 3: it's coming back, it's coming back. They see opportunity in golf.

696
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 3: They understand that they're invested in Formula one having it

697
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,240
Speaker 3: there and WWE and now UFC is there.

698
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 5: So I think it's too early to call, right.

699
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 3: I think there's been some rumblings for a while, but

700
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 3: it's too early to say where they're going to play

701
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 3: on this.

702
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 6: How are you preparing for the Saudi's entry into the sport?

703
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 3: I mean, I think we're preparing by working with them,

704
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,760
Speaker 3: having a good relationship and you know, we brought Fury

705
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 3: and music with them, and we did that in Riad

706
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,760
Speaker 3: and then we were coming right back with better BF ANDVV.

707
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 3: All that unfortunately got postponed and it's going to now

708
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 3: move to October, which is an amazing event.

709
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 5: So I think you work hand in hand with them.

710
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 5: I don't think there's I don't think it's a.

711
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 3: Zero sum game. I don't think it's like it's all

712
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 3: or nothing. I think it's how do you embrace a

713
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 3: big sport? I mean I always say this, look at

714
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 3: boxing more like the global nature of soccer. You have

715
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 3: the Bundesligue, how you have La Liga, you have the MLS.

716
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 5: You have you know, the Premier League.

717
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 3: You have all these countries that have this incredible soccer product,

718
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 3: and it's very similar to how boxing is.

719
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 5: It's all over the world.

720
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 3: I mean, in a way, I'm sitting ringsideing fifty five

721
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 3: thousand people in the Tokyo Dome in May, and one

722
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 3: week later I'm in Perth, Australia with lomashain Goo and

723
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 3: Cambosa's and a week later at Riod with Fury and Music.

724
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,359
Speaker 5: It's amazing how big and expansive this sport is.

725
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 11: So do you think that if they came in, stepped in,

726
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 11: created this league, brought everyone in under the same entity,

727
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 11: the same umbrella, and they housed it in Saudi, does it.

728
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 9: Take away that global aspect.

729
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 5: I think there's two paths. Right.

730
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,399
Speaker 3: It's if you go back into history, if you look

731
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 3: at how Las Vegas created its identity, right.

732
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 5: I look at that as step one, and that's what.

733
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:13,280
Speaker 3: They're doing right now, bringing big entertainment, music, big.

734
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,280
Speaker 5: Events to the region, right, And to draw attention.

735
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 3: Step two would be one, is there if there's an

736
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 3: infrastructural change that they would make to this sport.

737
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 5: And invest in doing to this sport? Step two too

738
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,479
Speaker 5: early to tell step one.

739
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 3: They're executing on a great plan making big fights happen.

740
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 5: So that's what I kind of see is like the

741
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 5: real objective right in front of us.

742
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 6: So two of boxing's best fighters, Turns Crawford and of

743
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 6: course Stevenson have been free agents, and Stevenson has been

744
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 6: lighting up social of land. I'm sure you're aware of this.

745
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 6: Talk to us about why top rank might not be

746
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 6: making as much of an effort to retain them.

747
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 5: We sign these kids, these athletes at a young age, We.

748
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 3: Develop them and we have a long run with them

749
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 3: and nothing is forever. We see this more and more

750
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 3: in other sports as well, and you can't just project

751
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,720
Speaker 3: out like, oh, once you sign on, you're there forever.

752
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 3: As long as people live up to the obligations and

753
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 3: live up to their contracts and they're respectful, right, you

754
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 3: have a free choice to do whatever you want to

755
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 3: do with your career.

756
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 5: I don't want to speak for either Chamans or Schichor.

757
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,280
Speaker 3: Because I think they speak and they speak for themselves

758
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 3: very vocally in social media.

759
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 5: And I'm not going to try to hit that one.

760
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 6: But isn't that part of their job in order? You

761
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 6: mentioned it earlier in the conversation, Right, it's about it's

762
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 6: about having a voice, right.

763
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 5: I think a part of it is.

764
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:36,959
Speaker 3: But I also think a part of it is your

765
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 3: perform I think the bigger part is what you deliver

766
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 3: in the rink. But at the end of the day,

767
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 3: in boxing, it's entertainment as well, and not because always

768
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 3: become a massive component to.

769
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 5: How somebody gets fights and what their pay is.

770
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 3: Because if you're entertaining the world, people are going to

771
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 3: light it up and.

772
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 5: They're going to pay for you. That doesn't necessarily.

773
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 3: Mean, like if you're we're doing thirty points in ten

774
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 3: one thousand four assists, you don't have to be the

775
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 3: most engaging person by.

776
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 5: Your statistics, yet you pay so.

777
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 3: I think you have to look at both ability and marketability,

778
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 3: and that resonates more than anything in boxing.

779
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 2: Dad, And I'll be honest, I was not going to

780
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 2: bring this up at first, but as we continue on

781
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 2: and we talked about it off Mike, I am going

782
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 2: to bring up the topic just for the simple fact

783
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 2: of mental health and substance abuse Ryan Garcia. The WBC

784
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 2: has permanently barred him, at least for now because of

785
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 2: just awful words that he used. I'm not even going

786
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 2: to get into it. Anybody wants to find out about it,

787
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:52,479
Speaker 2: look it up. But it was racially charged. I bring

788
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 2: it up from the fact that what does this say

789
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 2: about the twenty five year old box here and with

790
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 2: mental health and substance abuse, I.

791
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,839
Speaker 3: Think we all sit on the sideline and speculating, right,

792
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 3: we all sit there, guessing, we.

793
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:13,720
Speaker 5: All sit there going what's next. I think any acts

794
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 5: of harmful.

795
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 3: Discriminatory commence there was no place for I also think

796
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 3: that there's a place that we all got engaged by

797
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 3: hid in his behavior of levin everybody into this world,

798
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 3: as he carried on as a personality from five years

799
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 3: ago eight years ago when he was hidden speedbags everybody.

800
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 3: He let everybody into their life, and he connected to people.

801
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,439
Speaker 3: I also believe that it went too far, and that's

802
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,880
Speaker 3: a really hard balance. I don't know his personal health.

803
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 3: People talk about mental health and substance abuses and things

804
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:54,839
Speaker 3: like that, it would only be speculation.

805
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 5: I think he did say.

806
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 3: Very recently that he's going to go into rehab. Wish

807
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 3: him to speed recovery. But there is no place for

808
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 3: just atrocious comments and behavior that is not a place

809
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 3: in sports, in a non fair place in society.

810
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 2: I can't leave it on that grim of a note

811
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 2: because I'm going to now talk about something that everybody

812
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 2: wants to talk about, the top three boxers ever in

813
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 2: the history of the sport. And you try to bring

814
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 2: this up to somebody and everybody's going to be throwing

815
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 2: popcorn into each other. So I'm gonna ask you the

816
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 2: top three fighters ever in the history of the sport.

817
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,320
Speaker 3: I think it's so subjective, it's so hard to say

818
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 3: what Muhammad Ali meant.

819
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 5: To the world. And what he did in the sport.

820
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 3: How could you not say that right, that he's one

821
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 3: of the great three fighters of all times. It's hard

822
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 3: when you look at Sugar Ray Robinson's record and what

823
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 3: he did and his skill sets to say he's not

824
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:00,919
Speaker 3: worn on the top of him three. But I say

825
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 3: this not because I'm saying that one of the greatest

826
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 3: of all times. But I'm telling you and your audience

827
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,760
Speaker 3: one of the best fighters I've ever seen in thirty

828
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 3: years comes from Japan. And that's in a way I've

829
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:20,360
Speaker 3: never seen anybody like this. How speak in both hands,

830
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 3: I Q defense, offense, and he goes for the kill.

831
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 3: He goes to take your head off. One of the

832
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 3: most exciting fighters I've ever seen.

833
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 5: Wow.

834
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 3: So I'm not saying he's one of the three greatest,

835
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 3: but he's in modern day one of the best I've

836
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 3: ever seen in thirty years.

837
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 2: Wow, that's pretty cool.

838
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 9: I accept that it's a hot take what I like him.

839
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 5: He is a reel of excitement. But it is so subjective.

840
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 5: Remember that it is so subjective.

841
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 3: It is, And you know, I know people that tell

842
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 3: me they think Floyd Mayweather is but it's what your

843
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 3: eye likes I've always liked to knocked out guy. I've

844
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 3: always liked the guy that's aggressive, not appreciate them as

845
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 3: much as the defensive fighter.

846
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 5: For my eye, I understand people that do appreciate that.

847
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 2: Todd the Boff, President Top Rank, Las Vegas based Top

848
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 2: Rank stands as the country's premier boxing promotions company and

849
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 2: for one reason, because they take care of their fighters

850
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 2: and their fans. I wanted to get that in there.

851
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 2: Todd the Buff, thank you for joining us on the

852
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Business of Sports.

853
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 5: Thank you guys, a love demon.

854
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,319
Speaker 2: This has been the Bloomberg Business of Sports show, where

855
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 2: we explore the big money issues in the world of sports.

856
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 6: I'm Michael Barr, I am Damien Sassauer.

857
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:35,799
Speaker 2: Stay with us. Today's top stories and global business headlines

858
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 2: are coming up right now.