1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: So ready for another week of thinking out loud, this 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: one we're so excited for you to hear. Today we're 3 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: going to talk to one of my old friends, Billy Man. 4 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,560 Speaker 1: I've known him for years. He was a record executive 5 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 1: who I knew since the nineties, and he's helped shape 6 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: the careers of several huge names of music like Pink 7 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 1: Backstreet Boys and Kelly Rowland and a lot more. Hear 8 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: how he got his start busking in San Francisco, from 9 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: nothing to everything, and find out what he's up to 10 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 1: now with his podcast, which is great. It's called Yeah 11 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: I fucked that up. Here we go. Billy Mann and 12 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: I have known each other for how many years? 13 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 2: Twenty years? 14 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, a long time. Billy's got a great history. This guy, 15 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 1: great musician. God lived in his car in Los Angeles 16 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: and London. You lived in your car for a while. 17 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:47,160 Speaker 1: But did you wanted if. 18 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 2: I didn't go to London from Los Angeles? 19 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: Well, I know, but a car. You found a different car. 20 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: But you were living in your car, a struggling musician 21 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: out there on streets playing for money. And it's just 22 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: a great story from doing that to tell what you've known. 23 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 2: I think it was I don't think much has changed, 24 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 2: except I'm no longer living in a car. I mean, 25 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 2: I was like writing songs and singing and trying to 26 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 2: move my music from one place to the next. And 27 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 2: I the best story I can tell about the music 28 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 2: business has nothing to do with the music business. But 29 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 2: during the period where I was, I wasn't homeless, so 30 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 2: I was sort of CouchSurfing slash in my car. I 31 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 2: was really broke and I had to earn enough money 32 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 2: to pay for the room I was renting, and I 33 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 2: went to Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco and I played 34 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 2: songs and I made like sixteen bucks in one day, 35 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 2: which is not a lot of money. And I thought, 36 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 2: can I curse on this? Oh yeah, oh yeah, And 37 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 2: I thought I'm totally fucked. And then the next day 38 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 2: I was up very early and there was a couple 39 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 2: walking down Fisherman's Wharf and they looked very like happy 40 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 2: and in love and who's awake that early in the 41 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 2: morning and on a weekend, but a newlywed couple, which 42 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 2: they were. And I started playing right away because I 43 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 2: needed to make money, and they were nice, and they 44 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 2: had no place to go, and there were no people around, 45 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 2: and then we started talking and they said, we just 46 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 2: got married and we're here on our honeymoon. And I 47 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 2: said to them, you know, I'm trying to make enough 48 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 2: money to move my music forward. What if you tell 49 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 2: me how you met and I'll write a song about 50 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 2: it in five minutes or less for twenty bucks. And 51 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 2: if you don't like it, no, not twenty bucks for 52 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 2: five bucks. And if you don't like it, you don't 53 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 2: have to tell me. I just like ruined the story, 54 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 2: but I said, you don't have to pay me anything. 55 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 2: So they told me how they met, and I wrote 56 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 2: down all these words and it was like everything that 57 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 2: could rhyme. It would be like, you know, plain, spain, 58 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 2: rain or whatever, and I'd write these notes and then 59 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 2: I like made it up real fast, and the guy 60 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 2: gave me twenty bucks, and then there was another couple 61 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 2: walking after them, and I was like, so, how'd you 62 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 2: guys meet? And then I made like four hundred dollars 63 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 2: over the next day and I kind of saved myself. 64 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 2: And to me, that's kind of the story of being 65 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 2: a working songwriter or an artist, which is you're trying 66 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 2: to write songs that mean something to other people and 67 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 2: hopefully you can feed yourself in the process. So I've 68 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 2: been scaling ever since I was in San Francisco. 69 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 1: I know, But what a great way to realize writing 70 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: music has extreme value. 71 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 2: Well, I also thought to myself, not only that is 72 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 2: that it can have value, but I thought I'll figure 73 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 2: it out, because up until that point, I was just 74 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 2: hand to mouth and just worrying about just surviving. And 75 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, I thought, you know, this 76 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 2: method that I'm using, I could probably do better. 77 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: But since then, I mean, we must fast forward. Billy 78 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: has had many, many different positions at many many different 79 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: record labels, management companies, as his own management company, and 80 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: also has written songs, which is more fun to talk 81 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: about for many great artists, including Pink. You've worked with 82 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: other artists like Backstreet Boy, Seleine Deon, Jessica Simpson. I mean, 83 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: you've worked with everyone in the business, anybody these huge, 84 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: high paying executive positions that are kind of boring to 85 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: talk about, but exciting if you're in the music business. 86 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 2: Well funny if you're in the music business, because when 87 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 2: you're a songwriter and you're the working musician, and all 88 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 2: of a sudden, you become the president of a big company. 89 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 2: It's sort of like the dishwasher at the restaurant now 90 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 2: owns the restaurant, and there's like a real that's not 91 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 2: It wasn't an easy glide path into that role amongst 92 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 2: the people working at the restaurant who see you one 93 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 2: way and then suddenly have to experience you another. But 94 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 2: it was a great experience. I love doing it knowing 95 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 2: what I know of you. 96 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 1: Writing songs for people is much more fun than being 97 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: an executive at a at a company. 98 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 2: I think they're both problem solving in a way. 99 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 1: I mean writing a song problem solving. 100 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 2: Well. I think for somebody who's creative, it's it's therapeutic, right, 101 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 2: So sometimes it's problem solving and that you feel something 102 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,479 Speaker 2: and then you articulate it and you feel better. And also, 103 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 2: if you're working with other artists, you're trying to help 104 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 2: them articulate feelings that they feel, and in that respect 105 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,799 Speaker 2: it's problem solving or an attempt at building a bridge 106 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 2: for them so that they can actualize what they're feeling 107 00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 2: and use it as part of their identity. But in 108 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 2: a larger job, problem solving is you know, sometimes it's 109 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 2: conflicts with managers and artists, and sometimes it's internal conflicts. 110 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 2: I think the part that I didn't enjoy the most 111 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 2: was that it kept me farther away from the creative process. 112 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 2: And so after I got off, after I got offered 113 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 2: to sit in this role, I tried very hard to 114 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 2: believe that I would still be close to the music. 115 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 2: And the part that was the toughest was that, you know, 116 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 2: you wind up holding a desk more than you hold 117 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 2: a guitar, and that was tough. 118 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 1: One of the reasons we had to have you on 119 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,160 Speaker 1: the podcast building is because we want to talk about 120 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: your podcast, which is called Yeah I fucked that up, 121 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: and that's coming up in a minute. That's called a tease. 122 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 1: But I want to get back to songwriting. Songwriting for 123 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: you comes easy, easily, right, Yeah? Can anyone write a song? 124 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 1: I mean, what does it take to write a song? 125 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 2: I mean, well with shat GPT yes. 126 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: Well no, okay, without that. If I wasn't down and 127 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: just pen a song, is it easy? I mean, how 128 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: does your mind work? I'm sure songwriters do it different ways. 129 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 2: Everybody does it differently. I don't. I would like to 130 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 2: say that it's the thing about music, the music and 131 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 2: sports are the two things that are available to everybody. 132 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 2: Even if you're not playing it, you're a part of it. 133 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 2: And I think songwriting, I think what's hard isn't writing songs. 134 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 2: I think what's hard is how do you say something 135 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 2: in a way that has never been said the same 136 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 2: way before? How do you how do you see a 137 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 2: thought through? But I actually feel like I could sit 138 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:34,679 Speaker 2: down with you and we could write a song together 139 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 2: and it could be great. And I think what's so 140 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 2: exciting about the music business is the only thing that 141 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 2: separates me from somebody who's really clever and has some 142 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 2: talent and motivation and them being the next Grammy winning 143 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 2: hit maker is three minutes of what they create. And 144 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 2: in the world we're living in, there's so much access 145 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 2: that it's it's it's in many respects because of the 146 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 2: volume of artists, it's it's not as and in other 147 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 2: ways it's actually more democratic and there's more opportunity for everybody. 148 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 2: So now it's a volume game. So the answer is, 149 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 2: I think anybody can write a song. The question is 150 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 2: can they write a song that's going to hit people 151 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 2: deep enough that they want to hear more of it 152 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 2: and hear it over and over again. 153 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: You don't know it fast is part of it. You 154 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: know what fascinates me about songwriters. I could meet a 155 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: songwriter not know what they've written, and to me they 156 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: may come off across as come across as like a 157 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: very shy, shallow, introvert, whatever. But you read their lyrics 158 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: and then the most beautifully constructed lyrics and phrases and 159 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: thoughts things that make you cry. You just like a 160 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: work of art on the wall. You could actually listen 161 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: to the lyrics of a song and just start to 162 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: cry because it comes from this place that you just 163 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: don't see on the outside of these human beings. From 164 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: the inside is where you get it. It's a great 165 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: lesson in understanding. Got to you can't judge a book 166 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: by its cover, right, Like, there is one songwriter I love, 167 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: Diane Warren. Now you know Diane, well, we all know 168 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: Dian Warren. She lives on the West Coast, and she 169 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: writes some of those incredibly thought out, beautifully constructed songs 170 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: about love and breakup. But when you meet her' she 171 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: curses like a sailor. I mean, she loves to assault 172 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: people in a fun way. Her lyrics in her songs 173 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: don't match the person you meet at the table, so 174 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: I don't know which is which. Which of those people 175 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: is Dian Warren the person who curses like a sailor 176 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: or also can construct a beautiful love ballad that makes 177 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: you cry. 178 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 2: Well, but isn't it this is you're I mean, you're 179 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 2: unusual because you're a very public persona, but you have, 180 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 2: like I think, everybody has a three tiered life. They 181 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 2: have their public life, their private life, and their secret life. 182 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 2: And I think for creators, we behind the scenes type 183 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 2: of creators, it's to peek our heads out into the 184 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 2: public life with our creativity. It's like nice to be 185 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 2: a songwriter because you're not out doing the promotion and 186 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 2: you're not necessarily on the front lines of all the feedback. 187 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 2: And I think, first, I know Diane a little bit, 188 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 2: and she's brilliant. I mean, she's an absolute genius. But 189 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 2: her disconnect I actually this is my analysis, So forgive 190 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 2: me Diane for my analysis. But I actually think her 191 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 2: secret life is what fuels all of her creativity. I 192 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 2: think what makes her so special is the secret layer 193 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 2: of her comes out in the songs she writes. And 194 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 2: actually that private life, which is the few people that 195 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 2: get to meet her as Diane Warren the songwriter is 196 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 2: actually her public life. I think there's something magical about 197 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 2: every songwriter or a musician that I meet, but I think 198 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 2: with her in particular, I think the secret sauce for 199 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 2: her is that secret place that she pulls it from. 200 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 2: She's an unusual example. But is she Yeah, she is. 201 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:05,680 Speaker 2: She's very special. There's only I mean, I'm a huge fan, 202 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 2: and every time we've hung out or spoken, she's just 203 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 2: like she's as ambitious and excited and curious about the 204 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 2: next song. And she's an absolute sales. 205 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: Machine without doubt. Just you know Diane Warren. And I 206 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: want you, by the way, to do a search on 207 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: Diane Warren so you can you can see the list 208 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:27,959 Speaker 1: of hits. I mean, she is nothing but hits, millions 209 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: of them. 210 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 2: Don't want to miss a thing. Errol Smith, I'll never 211 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 2: get over you getting over me. 212 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: That's there's a ton of them. I'm just and Michael 213 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: Bolton's and all sorts of things. 214 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:41,359 Speaker 2: She's she's goat. 215 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: Status and you know what, she has a secret vault 216 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:46,439 Speaker 1: at home and maybe it's a computer where she has 217 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: songs ready to go and she can actually she can 218 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 1: actually auction them off and to the highest bidder, and 219 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: she makes She just walked to the mailbox every day 220 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 1: and the checks just come in and she does. 221 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 2: But you know, the question that you always ask about, 222 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 2: or rather the question that I tend to ask, is 223 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 2: are people happy? You know? And I think, you know, 224 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 2: when I look at any of the people that are 225 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 2: successful at the level that Diana is successful, and I 226 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 2: would I can't help but look at it and think. 227 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,079 Speaker 2: You can't see the kind of car you're driving necessarily 228 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 2: while you're driving it. I mean, you can see maybe 229 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 2: a little logo on the steering wheel. But I just 230 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 2: think that what I've found amazing is working with the 231 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 2: people that have that sense of self awareness and the 232 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 2: success and it's not all about the music industry, but 233 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 2: that music is somehow a vehicle for other parts of 234 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 2: their lives that they want to develop, and I think 235 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 2: that this is a hard business for them. 236 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: Let's talk about the podcast, because I find this fascinating 237 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: because as creative as Billy Man has been in the 238 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 1: music business, not only writing the music and performing it, 239 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: but also managing others who do the music and all 240 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: so figuring out how to distribute it for profitability for companies. 241 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: He also has a great take on life. As you 242 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: can hear already, you have a very unique way of 243 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 1: phrasing and couching things to make it interesting. You have 244 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: found people in your life in business who actually have 245 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: great stories. The journey that they that they made to 246 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: get from point A to where they are now has 247 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: a couple of potholes on the road. Right. So the 248 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 1: podcast is called Yeah, I fucked that up, So I 249 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: know what it's about, but I want to hear in 250 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:36,679 Speaker 1: your words, what is this podcast about and what can 251 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: we all learn from it? 252 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 2: I mean, so I have four kids. One of my 253 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 2: kids in particular, was having a very difficult time getting 254 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 2: stuck on not getting good grade on something at school, 255 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 2: and it was it sounds weird, but I think a 256 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 2: lot of parents can relate to this. You know, if 257 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 2: you have a kid who's an athlete, or kid who's 258 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 2: really passionate about one one or another things that when 259 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 2: it doesn't go their way, it can be hard. And 260 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 2: I was trying to explain that everybody fails if you're 261 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 2: successful at anything, and his response was that's not true. 262 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 2: You don't fail. And then I sort of I looked 263 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 2: at Jen and my wife and it was like a 264 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 2: toilet paper roll, a list of all the things that 265 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 2: I have fucked up. But I really tried to explain 266 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 2: to him that it's a fact. Like Abraham Lincoln lost 267 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 2: I think almost every election before he won being president, 268 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:37,199 Speaker 2: and then he changed the world, not enough, but certainly 269 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 2: more than anybody else. And I think that anybody that 270 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 2: I know that's successful, they actually they get better from 271 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 2: the moments that they fall down. But people don't talk 272 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 2: about that. Elvis, they don't talk. Nobody goes to a 273 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 2: cocktail party and they're like, man, I really fucked this 274 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 2: up today. It's just not how we're wired. Nobody goes 275 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 2: on social media and posts look at me, I look 276 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 2: like shit. I had a terrible day. I tripped, I 277 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 2: made a huge mistake at work. It's just not we 278 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 2: And we've come to this place where we have this 279 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 2: curated highlight real life that everybody's living. And at the 280 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 2: same time there's real problems, especially with younger people, and 281 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 2: anxiety and being judged and judging other people. So the 282 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 2: idea of this podcast is, really, can I get successful 283 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 2: people to volunteer? They're not selling a record or a book, 284 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 2: or just to actually talk about times that they fucked 285 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 2: up and what they got out of it and how 286 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 2: it either made them better or more self aware. And 287 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 2: each conversation has been different, but I have learned so much. 288 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 2: Most of all, I've learned that there is a thread, 289 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 2: a through line among all of the guests that I've 290 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 2: spoken to. And I never I didn't think that I 291 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 2: would ever do a podcast. I think podcast is like 292 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 2: everybody's doing a podcast. But it has been surprisingly enriching 293 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 2: for me and it's going well, which is a shock 294 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 2: to me also. But I think it's another being at 295 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 2: the fisherman's wharf, like let me try a thing and 296 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 2: see if it's worth anything. But it's been worth the 297 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 2: most for me to see guess real talk about what 298 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 2: they've been through and in a way that they haven't done. 299 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 2: It's funny you mentioned Michael Bolton in the context of 300 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 2: Diane Warren and I interviewed him. It was really intense. 301 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 2: People don't know Michael Bolton. You think of Michael Bolton, 302 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 2: I mean, he's this iconic figure and there's an era 303 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 2: of his life where he was literally in the bleeding 304 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 2: edge of the zeitgeist and then he was like fell 305 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 2: out of it and he went from being the sexiest 306 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 2: man a live magazine cover guy to like kind of 307 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 2: what happened to him, or people would say comments about 308 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 2: his hair, But Michael was raising three daughters on food 309 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 2: stamps into his thirties before he had his first hit. 310 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 2: But him talking of about that and how he looks 311 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 2: at his success and how he is I don't say failed, 312 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 2: but I think what he wishes that he did better 313 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 2: has nothing to do with money or fame or music 314 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 2: or celebrity. And I found this with each of the 315 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 2: people that I've spoken to. It's that it's like it's 316 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 2: that it's that personal ability to self reflect that can 317 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 2: get lost in the ambition that you have in a career, 318 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 2: whether it's in music or film or acting. 319 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: What we learn here and we hear it from everyone, 320 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: every everyone in industry that's succeeding anyway, will tell you 321 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: if you're not willing to take a chance and fail, 322 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: you're never going to succeed. Succeed. The problem is is 323 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: in failure, it's embarrassing, it's heartbreaking, so it makes you 324 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: tend to not want to try. Therefore you just sort 325 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: of swim with the other salmon. Right, but when you really, 326 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: when you're willing to get out there and take a chance, 327 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: even if you're taking a chance with your entire fortune 328 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 1: or lack of fortune and the few daughters you have 329 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: in the bank. If you don't take those chances, you'll 330 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: never move forward. You have to fail in order to succeed, right, 331 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: And I agree. 332 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 2: I guess the question is, is anybody talking about. 333 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 1: That, Well, you are in this podcast, that's why you're here. Hello. 334 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 2: No, But I guess I think more. We have to 335 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 2: be a lot more forgiving of other people, right, and 336 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:33,439 Speaker 2: we idolize people. And the assumption is because of the 337 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,439 Speaker 2: social media life for living, is that they don't that 338 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 2: they don't have their setbacks, or if they exist, they're staged. 339 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 2: It's like, one of the reasons I love Pink, even 340 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 2: though Alicia is like my friend for a long time, 341 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:48,239 Speaker 2: is that off the stage, she is exactly who she is, 342 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 2: and she is transparent to a fault. Sometimes I'm like, Okay, 343 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:55,640 Speaker 2: I don't know if you need to go that far, 344 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,159 Speaker 2: but she feels compelled. And then there are other artists 345 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:02,439 Speaker 2: where they're living a whole life that everybody seems to 346 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 2: see and behind the scenes is it's completely different, right. 347 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 2: I don't know how people get past that. 348 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:12,639 Speaker 1: Well, your question a second ago, Bildy was well, how 349 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,719 Speaker 1: do we get people to understand, truly understand the concept 350 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: of you have to fail before you succeed. Maybe one 351 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: of the problems is all the people saying you have 352 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,439 Speaker 1: to fail before you succeed are successful. You're rare to 353 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: hear someone who's on the down and out it's going 354 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 1: you know, you gotta fuck up before you succeed, because 355 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:30,879 Speaker 1: they're still fucking up. They're not succeeding yet, right. 356 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 2: But some of people who are successful in a higher 357 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 2: altitude with hopefully they're like a little beacon in the 358 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,639 Speaker 2: you know, in the clouds to say, well again, to 359 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 2: your point, I don't think they broadcast I did this wrong. 360 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 2: I this business failed. No one cared about my song. 361 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:51,199 Speaker 2: I thought this was a hit. It was barely a 362 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 2: B side. That's like, it's not out there. But I 363 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 2: do think that at least, let me put you this way. 364 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 2: Every time I spoke to somebody and you, this is 365 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 2: your profession, not mine. But when we got real into it, 366 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 2: when it was over, they all thanked me. This felt 367 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 2: really good, really and it's. 368 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: Like because these things were all facts that they had already. 369 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 2: It's like you talking to someone about really deep stuff 370 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 2: that you don't think that they're going to go there. 371 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 1: But they had to talk about it to get it out. 372 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 2: But or you know, when I interviewed Kelly Rowland, she 373 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:29,919 Speaker 2: was like, no one has ever even asked me this question. 374 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 2: And we got into the fact that she grew up 375 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 2: and her mom was a nanny, and she was not 376 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 2: just living with Beyonce in her family, but she was 377 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,640 Speaker 2: with her mom who was a caregiver for a family, 378 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 2: and how she felt like her mom treated those kids 379 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 2: nicer than she treated her, or she was around people 380 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 2: who were affluent enough, and that she thought to herself, 381 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,479 Speaker 2: one day, I want to have this life right, and 382 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 2: then all of the challenges that she's facing her career, 383 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 2: I just didn't think I By the way, every conversation, 384 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 2: I'm sure the same is with you in interviews, it's 385 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 2: like you kind of go in you don't really know 386 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 2: what you're going to get until you get there. And 387 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 2: in this case, it's like it's very like, okay, everybody 388 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:17,479 Speaker 2: take off their clothes and let's be open. And it 389 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 2: was I learned so much doing it. What's interesting about 390 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 2: it is the reason I like talking to celebrities about 391 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 2: it is because celebrities are we hold them up really high, 392 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 2: and when they're there, they don't want to lose that 393 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 2: because if I talk about how I fuck things up, 394 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 2: then I'll be judged. I could lose that, So I 395 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 2: don't want to talk about that. I'm just going to 396 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 2: post all my super awesome parties that I'm going to 397 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 2: and everything's cool. But I think ironically, the figures, the 398 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:54,199 Speaker 2: public figures that last the longest are the ones that 399 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 2: address their moments of self doubt. That they're the most 400 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 2: transparent and not in a script. And that was the 401 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 2: other part. It is, like I said to when I 402 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 2: talked to Michael Bolton, just because I know him, I'm like, 403 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 2: don't give me any fucking stock answers, like we're going 404 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 2: to move past that. And if you go down that 405 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 2: path and I know that story, you're going to pull 406 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 2: out about whatever that is. I want to move past it. 407 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 2: And we got right into it. I think my goal 408 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,920 Speaker 2: is that for my son who was getting stuck, or 409 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 2: for other people that feel like they're afraid to take risks. 410 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 2: It's if you don't do it one. You know, it's 411 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 2: like you're not going to score a goal if you 412 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:38,160 Speaker 2: don't take a shot. But the other piece is most 413 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 2: of the people I've spoken to, in fact, all of them, 414 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 2: find that the places where they have fucked up, they've 415 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 2: made mistakes is actually the fertile ground for them to 416 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 2: be greater. And they have discovered something else that has 417 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 2: went unpacked has given them extra power and whatever area 418 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 2: that they wind up succeeding in. And that's I don't 419 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 2: know if that will come across in every podcast. I 420 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 2: think every I think they're all entertaining, but I think 421 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 2: when it does come across, it's it's super it's super emotional. 422 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 2: And next week and I don't know when this will air, 423 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 2: but I did one with Shelley Wright. Do you know 424 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 2: Shelley Wright. Shelley Wright is a country singer songwriter who 425 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:29,199 Speaker 2: grew up in Kansas, Kansas farm country. 426 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: We talked about her go Ahead and she. 427 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 2: Was dating Brad Paisley and they were like a country couple, 428 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 2: and she had the number one song and this is 429 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:42,360 Speaker 2: in the late nineties. It's single white female, super talented, 430 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 2: beautiful people, magazines, Most Beautiful People, and she won the 431 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 2: ACM Award for Best Female Solo Artist, and she stood 432 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 2: up there and the whole time while she's with Brad Paisley, 433 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 2: and she's this big you know, America sweetheart, she's a 434 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 2: lesbian living in the closet and she's living like a 435 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 2: complete double life and her fuck up, which and it's 436 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 2: this is that she didn't get up there when she 437 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 2: won that award and said I'm gay and this is 438 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:19,479 Speaker 2: who I am. And I think the dual life that 439 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,880 Speaker 2: she was living, which she no longer lives obviously, really 440 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 2: put her own life in jeopardy and that she allowed 441 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 2: it to go as dark and as far as she did, 442 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 2: and is her what she feels as her fuck up 443 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 2: and her going through that story was gut wrenching to 444 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:39,159 Speaker 2: listen to. 445 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 1: And you know, you said a second ago something about 446 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: how we need to give ourselves more space to mess up. 447 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: How do you do that other than not being afraid 448 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 1: to be vulnerable? And also you were talking about people 449 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: you know who are living this genuine life. I think 450 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,479 Speaker 1: Pink is a great example on and off stage. I 451 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,679 Speaker 1: think most how do we give ourselves room to fuck up? 452 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 2: I don't know, I mean, and I don't think it's 453 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 2: exclusive to celebrities. I mean there's somebody at work that 454 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 2: they come to work and they present a certain way, 455 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 2: and when they go home it's it's another way. It's not. 456 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 2: I think it's less the judgment. I think it's more 457 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 2: that you know, our uber results driven mentality and everything 458 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 2: is you know, about where people feel that they are 459 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 2: on the sort of successful scale, and we're of course 460 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 2: we're living in the media center. But I think in general, 461 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 2: it's like I think, I think that the more successful people, 462 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 2: and it doesn't just mean money or celebrity, I think 463 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,120 Speaker 2: more the more people who are comfortable in themselves kind 464 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 2: of success gives space to the people around them to 465 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 2: fuck up and not judge them and say, you know what, 466 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,159 Speaker 2: that sucks, I'm so sorry that happened, but you know, 467 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 2: who knows where it's going to lead you. I just 468 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 2: think we've lost that that's a very American thing. That's 469 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 2: a very American entrepreneurial spirit. Like we start from nothing, 470 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 2: and we we were gritty, and we have pride in 471 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 2: what we do, and we care about community, and I 472 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 2: think all of this is like in this this is 473 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 2: the right way, and this is the wrong way, and 474 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 2: if you don't do it one way, you fail or 475 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 2: you're looked at as a loser by the other. I 476 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 2: just this is I think the idea of making space 477 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 2: for failure is uh. It starts with individuals, but I 478 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 2: think it's also families, judgments and families. How many parents say, 479 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 2: I don't like the person you're dating, I don't whatever. 480 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 2: It's like, we're just not good at this. 481 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 1: We're not good at any of many things. 482 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 2: No, but I think I think I think inside we 483 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,679 Speaker 2: really are. But I just think in the quest for 484 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 2: the perfect everything, which is the life we're living in 485 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:08,640 Speaker 2: with you know, especially in social media, it's kind of honestly, 486 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 2: someone is gonna start a social media page, some celebrity 487 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 2: and they're just gonna it's gonna be nothing but fuck ups. 488 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 2: By the way, James Blunt on Twitter, I don't know 489 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 2: if you follow this, Okay, a genius, like the most 490 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 2: self deprecating, like he will take hate comments and he 491 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,159 Speaker 2: will turn them around into the greatest one liners. And 492 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,879 Speaker 2: it's they'll say, like, I mean, we could look it up, 493 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 2: but like James Blunt sucks and he would write back 494 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:41,679 Speaker 2: a comment, you know, straws whatever, lollipops whatever, and with 495 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 2: a smiley face, and he he wears it and it 496 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 2: makes him powerful. To me as someone who like observes 497 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 2: that that embrace of negative feedback, and I think that's 498 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 2: I think we're we're struggling. I think people are struggling 499 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 2: with it and the and that I you know, I 500 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 2: have four kids and my teenage daughter, like I worry 501 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 2: about like all of her friends and everybody, the compulsion 502 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 2: to post a certain way and. 503 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: Your social media has kind of fucked us up a 504 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,360 Speaker 1: little bit. Yeah, maybe we could all agree we're fucked 505 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: up because of social media. I you know, Billy, I 506 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,640 Speaker 1: want to go back to another thing. I keep going 507 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 1: back to things you say, because you've said some things 508 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 1: that really are igniting thoughts in my head rather than entertainment, business, 509 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 1: careers or lives whatever. Let's talk about if you're a nurse, 510 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 1: let's talk about, if you're an uber driver, let's talk 511 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 1: about if you're a police officer. Let's talk about if 512 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: you're you're out there doing something other than entertainment. What 513 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: kind of fuck ups, what kind of fuck ups? Can 514 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:48,200 Speaker 1: you start to identify in your life that maybe we're 515 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,640 Speaker 1: great for you, that don't be afraid. And you're talking 516 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 1: about footing a report out, going out and doing a 517 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: presentation in your in your insurance office, whatever, Like, how 518 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 1: can we apply this to anyone in every one who's 519 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: not an entertainment business like every everyday people. 520 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 2: I mean, I think what I look at, and I 521 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 2: don't mean this in necessarily a religious context, but I 522 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 2: do believe that we live in a world where sometimes 523 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 2: there are like coincidences that are just unbelievably strange. You 524 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 2: could be on the other side of a city or 525 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 2: the country and meet someone who happens to be friends 526 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 2: with a random person. You know. I think that there 527 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 2: is a there is a supernatural element to life that 528 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 2: we're living. You know, you're thinking of someone in their 529 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 2: favorite song comes on the radio at the exact time 530 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 2: you think of them. Sometimes the car accident you get 531 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 2: into where you made a wrong turn and fucked up 532 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 2: is actually the car accident that stopped you from going 533 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 2: to wherever you were going to go all the time 534 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 2: that could have been much worse for you. And that 535 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 2: or the car accident that you were in that where 536 00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 2: you fucked up a turn and you were standing in 537 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 2: the coffee shop waiting for someone to come pick you up, 538 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 2: you meet the love of your life who's in the 539 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 2: coffee shop. I think that we have to recognize that 540 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 2: there is that sometimes failure is the forcing mechanism to clarity, 541 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 2: and that clarity can either be events or that clarity 542 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 2: can be internally. I've got to stop and rethink whatever 543 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 2: the fuck I'm doing right now, because I know I 544 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 2: want to be there. I was supposed to be there 545 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 2: twenty minutes ago, but for whatever reason, I'm not going 546 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 2: to be there, and I'm here now. Example example I 547 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 2: mean for me. I think one example is I was 548 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 2: going to a gig. This is when I was touring, 549 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 2: and it was a bunch of guys and I musicians 550 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 2: in living in a van and the van was really tall, 551 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 2: so it was like the van size and then there 552 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 2: was like tall van size and I was driving the 553 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 2: van was when you're an artist and you don't have 554 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 2: a big budget, like everybody drives. And we were I 555 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 2: want to say, in Iowa or something, and we were 556 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 2: driving and I went whatever motel we were saying in 557 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 2: and there was like the drive through. But I didn't 558 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,719 Speaker 2: see that the van or think that the van was 559 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 2: taller than the top of the ceiling of that awning 560 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 2: structure at the cell okay, and so I like, you 561 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 2: heard the and then it was and it's like my band, 562 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 2: So I'm totally embarrassed, and so I put in reverse. 563 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 2: And it's not like I can afford to fix whatever 564 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 2: it is. But we were stuck there for an extra 565 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 2: two days and I missed a festival date. The festival 566 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 2: date that we didn't go to, there was like a 567 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 2: massive lightning storm tornado thing, and they wound up canceling 568 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 2: it and all this terrible things happened to mean we 569 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 2: were at this location. I mean, that's one example of 570 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 2: you know, I fucked up because I drove this van 571 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 2: into this structure. But on the other hand, if I 572 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 2: hadn't done that, what would have happened to us if 573 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 2: we were there during this like tornado storm that was 574 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 2: happening at the festival. I guess you could say maybe nothing, 575 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 2: but also maybe something. 576 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: Josh Hadden is in charge of engineering here at iHeart 577 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: in New York City. He set his alarm clock for 578 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: six pm for wakeup, when he should have set it 579 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: for six am because he was supposed to be at 580 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: the World Trade Center that morning. On September eleventh, two 581 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 1: thousand and one. Right, there's a fuck out, right, right, 582 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 1: but look at the payoff? 583 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 2: Right? But that's but isn't that? It? Though? Is that 584 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 2: there are some of these This is the make space 585 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 2: for I think when things happen to us, we're so 586 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 2: in the immediate moment of oh my god, oh my god, 587 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,959 Speaker 2: oh my God, that we have to leave like a 588 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 2: little bit of room if possible, to be able to think, Okay, 589 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 2: this is I feel like Oprah or something. But what 590 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 2: in this moment am I supposed to be hearing about 591 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 2: where I am? And if I'm forced to yield and 592 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 2: I have no control and I feel embarrassed in shame, 593 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 2: can I get past that? And I think the problem 594 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 2: is it's it's harder and harder for people to get 595 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 2: past moments of embarrassment because everybody's on camera all the 596 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 2: fucking time. So maybe we can normalize it a little 597 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 2: when you have celebrities talk about their moments of self 598 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 2: doubt and failure, and most of the time it's the 599 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 2: listening to what they really want to say and really 600 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 2: want to do, But the mistake lies in ignoring it. 601 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 2: So like if nobody ever hears this podcast, and the 602 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 2: only thing I get to say to them on your 603 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 2: show is listen and trust what your gut is telling you, 604 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 2: what your voice inside of you is telling you, so 605 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 2: that if you do fuck up, you don't have regrets 606 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 2: because you maybe change direction to please somebody else. And 607 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 2: when you are successful, it'll feel more real to you 608 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 2: because you will have not ignored whatever it was that 609 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 2: compelled you to act doing whatever it is you are 610 00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 2: passionate about, including being a nurse and being an uber driver, 611 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 2: or even if you're an uber driver because you want 612 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 2: to make money and survive. You know, if you have 613 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 2: a moment where that is on pause or something happens, 614 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 2: then I just I think, look around. I don't think 615 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 2: we just take I don't think we take time. I 616 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 2: don't think we're very forgiving of ourselves. 617 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 1: No, no, we treat ourselves like crap. Why. I don't know. 618 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 1: I don't know. That voice in the head is usually 619 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: our worst enemy. Right. So here's my challenge for everyone 620 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: listening to this, and I was included, make a mental 621 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 1: list or write down, make a list on a piece 622 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: of paper of all the fuck ups in your life, 623 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: things that you could have done differently, but you didn't. 624 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 1: You fucked up, but you learned from it right, and 625 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 1: you grew from it, and you were resolute in never 626 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: making that mistake ever again. And those are the things 627 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 1: that catapult you into great days and success. 628 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 2: I also think I'd add one piece to that, which 629 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 2: is what good came from it? 630 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 1: Exactly? 631 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 2: Did something good come from it? Even if it's humility 632 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 2: that you apply to yourself. Did something good happen? Did 633 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,239 Speaker 2: you meet a person that you never thought you'd meet. 634 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 2: Did you learn something about yourself that went unpacked you 635 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 2: realize helped you to be wherever it is you are. 636 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:21,319 Speaker 2: I you know, listen, this is being human means you 637 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 2: fuck up. Being human, you're in a relationship with someone, 638 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:28,719 Speaker 2: you fuck up, You have friendships, your coworkers. I think 639 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,920 Speaker 2: the human fuck ups, the worst human fuck ups are 640 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:37,240 Speaker 2: the ones that go unforgiven, the ones that go without 641 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 2: self reflection. And because we're in this ultra judgment world 642 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 2: right now, I think it's just hard for people. So 643 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:49,720 Speaker 2: I know, for me, I walk away from these conversations 644 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 2: feeling oddly enlightened and also more aware of my many faults, 645 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 2: but also looking at those as has maybe those areas 646 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 2: of development that there's actually real opportunity for me to 647 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,640 Speaker 2: excel there and I don't want to miss that. And 648 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 2: I think we going back to you. I just think 649 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 2: it's not that you belong playing sports. The question is 650 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,879 Speaker 2: where was that guy little Elvis in the moment and 651 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 2: is he still here in some spaces in your life? 652 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 2: And what does that look like and how does it 653 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,280 Speaker 2: impact how you do business or things that you choose 654 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,439 Speaker 2: to do. I mean, you are like Diane Warren, your 655 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 2: private life and a secret life, not just the public life. 656 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 2: I hope that social media colmes itself a little bit 657 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,919 Speaker 2: so that people feel better about posting photos that it's 658 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 2: not the perfect angle or the perfect moment. 659 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,719 Speaker 1: Every day we should strive to post things that show 660 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 1: us at our worst. 661 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,360 Speaker 2: By the way, I would make a bet or a 662 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,840 Speaker 2: challenge that if and I'm sure no one would do this, 663 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 2: but I think if someone said for Z one hundred, 664 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 2: for your show or for you, that you said I'm 665 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 2: going to do a week of failure, it's gonna be 666 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 2: failure week, and every week you post some like terrible 667 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,799 Speaker 2: photo that's a moment of vulnerability. I bet that you 668 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 2: would get an enormous amount of engagement and likes and 669 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 2: follows and comments, and I agree, and I think and 670 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:30,920 Speaker 2: I think that that is the part that makes I 671 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:32,799 Speaker 2: think that's the part where social media can do a 672 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:33,239 Speaker 2: lot of good. 673 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 1: Very well said Billy. Thank you for coming in, Thank 674 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: you for having me. The podcast is called Yeah, I 675 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 1: Fucked that up? 676 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 2: What you just like saying? 677 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,840 Speaker 1: I like saying it because the title itself is truly 678 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: exactly what it is. 679 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,320 Speaker 2: Well, my daughter, my nine year old, is like, Dad, 680 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 2: you're and like, as soon as we go into the podcast, 681 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 2: I like feel a bit of embarrassment. But even there, 682 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 2: I think, you know, people curve. I think fuck fuck 683 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,760 Speaker 2: is a great word. It really is so many uses, 684 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:09,440 Speaker 2: but I think people like saying it. And in the 685 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 2: same way, I think when people finished having the conversation, 686 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,600 Speaker 2: they like the conversation. So hopefully people will listen to 687 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,879 Speaker 2: them and they'll feel a little bit more normal. 688 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,640 Speaker 1: Billy's story one of my favorite, about never giving up 689 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,360 Speaker 1: on what you truly believe in. From his humble beginnings 690 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 1: wanting to play music, it's incredible to see his immense 691 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 1: success in this industry that he just loves. And those 692 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,279 Speaker 1: are the stories we love to bring to you on 693 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,120 Speaker 1: Thinking Out Loud. If you're enjoying this podcast, why not 694 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 1: leave us a review and give us five stars. We've 695 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 1: got plenty more to share with you in the weeks 696 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 1: to come, so make sure you're subscribed and you'll get 697 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,080 Speaker 1: a notification when a new episode drops. Follow me at 698 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,839 Speaker 1: Elvis Durant on social media until next time, Peace Out. 699 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,799 Speaker 1: Thinking Out Loud is hosted by me Elvis Duran. The 700 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: podcast is produced and edited by Mike Coscarelli. Executive producers 701 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,240 Speaker 1: are Andrew Paclsi and Katrina Norvell. Thanks to David Katz, 702 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 1: Michael kind Heart and Caitlin Madore. Thinking Out Loud as 703 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 1: part of the Elvis Duran podcast Network on iHeartRadio for more, 704 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: rate review and subscribe to our show and if you 705 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,879 Speaker 1: liked this episode, tell your friends. Until next time, I'm 706 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 1: Elvis Duran.