1 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: Anybody who covers women's basketball and has been in it 2 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: for a while understands the layers of race when it 3 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: comes to this sport and the way that it's covered 4 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: and the way that you know, the women have or 5 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: have not been promoted throughout the years for so long 6 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: in this country. 7 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 2: You know, I think we've seen black women in our. 8 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:36,599 Speaker 1: League, in the WNBA who have not been marketed in 9 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: the way that they should have been. 10 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,919 Speaker 3: She's getting that villainification for not doing anything that is 11 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 3: so harmful to the game other than just being her 12 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 3: competitive self, very similar to what we're seeing in all 13 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 3: these other sports. So I think she just took ownership 14 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 3: of it instead of letting it letting other people write 15 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:54,279 Speaker 3: the narrative for herself. 16 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 4: Black athletes and white athletes do the same thing. It's 17 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 4: looked at very differently. And what Angela, I was like, 18 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 4: here we here we go. Like so as a black person, 19 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,199 Speaker 4: I'm like, nah, I got to ride for you because 20 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 4: I got to defend black women. I'm going to be 21 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 4: on your side. So that's what I remember, Like it 22 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 4: become it becoming a huge, huge thing, And I remember 23 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 4: they played the next year and I remember saying, you know, 24 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 4: I did make my joke. I was like, Race War 25 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 4: two is happening, happening, happening. 26 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 5: The Superman needed Lex Luthor, the Batman needed the Joker. 27 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 6: And I don't mean to put Angel Rees in some 28 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 6: kind of villain this role, because I don't consider her 29 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 6: a villain. 30 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,320 Speaker 7: But I think every great player needs a foil. 31 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 8: The reason why we watching women's basketball is not just 32 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 8: because of one person. 33 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:39,479 Speaker 9: It's because of me too. 34 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:39,680 Speaker 7: You know. 35 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 10: I don't think there should be any criticism for what 36 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 10: she did. 37 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,119 Speaker 11: I honestly didn't see it when the game was going on. 38 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 12: But the story became more compelling, and the desire to 39 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 12: watch and talk about it became more compelling when she 40 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 12: had a foil. 41 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 13: Angel won a national championship. 42 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 12: She has four million plus followers. She's at the met Gala. 43 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 7: Sizza and mag. 44 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 12: Thee Stallion want to come sit courtside and watch her. 45 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 5: Naked Sports. The Making of a Rivalry a six episode 46 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 5: docu series that explores the media frenzy surrounding two supernovas 47 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 5: and Kitlin Clark and Angel Reese. I'm your host, Carrie Champion, 48 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 5: and welcome to the Making of a Rivalry. It's twenty 49 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 5: twenty four, and yet I'm still struck by how difficult 50 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 5: it is to have honest conversations about race. The complicated 51 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 5: and often overlooked history of racism in this country, in 52 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 5: my opinion, is a big part of why Angel Reese 53 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 5: has been cast in the role of the villain while 54 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 5: Kitlin Clark is embraced as the darling. We live in 55 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 5: a social media driven world that thrives on division, where 56 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 5: preconceived notions about these young women are shaped by their 57 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 5: skin color or how they carry themselves. The narratives are 58 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 5: often written before they even step on the court. Recently, 59 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,959 Speaker 5: WNBA Commissioner Kathy Engelbert was asked to confront this racial 60 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 5: divide head on, acknowledging the unspoken tension surrounding these two 61 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:00,799 Speaker 5: supers stars. 62 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 14: It is a little that bird Magic moment if you 63 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 14: recall from nineteen seventy nine, when those two rookies came 64 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 14: in from a big college rivalry, one white, one black, 65 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 14: and so we have that moment with these two. But 66 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:13,399 Speaker 14: the one thing I know about sports, you need rivalry. 67 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 14: That's what makes people watch. They want to watch games 68 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:20,119 Speaker 14: of consequence between rivals. They don't want everybody being nice 69 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 14: to one another. So social media is different today than 70 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 14: it was in nineteen seventy nine when it didn't exist. 71 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 14: But you know, I always tell the players, you know, 72 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,239 Speaker 14: I was told a long time ago. If someone's typing 73 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 14: something in and you wouldn't ask their advice, ignore it. 74 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 5: There's that word again. 75 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 7: Ignore. 76 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 5: Ignore a fan base that criticizes and identifies you based 77 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 5: on the color of your skin or your sexual orientation. 78 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 5: Ignore the social media mobs who threaten you for just 79 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 5: existing and doing your job. No, Kathy, that's not the answer. 80 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 5: Because I am writing this series in real time. I 81 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 5: have to be honest. I was outraged when I heard 82 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 5: Kathy Inglebirst's response. It felt dismissive, and I wasn't alone. 83 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 5: Many of the players share the same anger, feeling their 84 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 5: voices and experiences really didn't matter to a commissioner who 85 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 5: is charged with governing the WNBA into a new era. 86 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 7: There's no doubt about it. 87 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 15: The players were disappointed in how Kathy Engelbert handled this moment, 88 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 15: and what they really wanted her to say was just 89 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 15: flat out that this racism, homophobia, misogyny that a lot 90 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 15: of the players are experiencing is not okay. And Alicia 91 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 15: Clark was one of the players I spoke with at 92 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 15: Ace's practiced yesterday, and she said that that's all they 93 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 15: really wanted, but it's heard to just say it's not okay, 94 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,359 Speaker 15: and she acknowledged that there is this darker turn that 95 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 15: a lot of the fans are maybe how they're interacting 96 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 15: with the players, the sorts of vitriol that they're directing 97 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 15: towards players, and that it's beyond just basketball, that it 98 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 15: really is seeping into that racism, that homophobic and that 99 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 15: misogynistic language, and so that's something that they really felt 100 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 15: like was a missed opportunity from Kathy Engelbert to really 101 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 15: address this. We don't support this sort of behavior in 102 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 15: our league. 103 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 5: A few days after this missed opportunity to address a 104 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 5: problem that the league has dealt with since its inception, 105 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 5: the commissioner apologized to players in a letter and reportedly 106 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 5: met with a few players as well, in part saying 107 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 5: my answer missed the mark, and I'm sorry. The commissioner's 108 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 5: response was painfully familiar to me. It's the same type 109 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 5: of response I've heard every single time I went to 110 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 5: an employer about the experiences and the racial undertones I 111 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 5: face as a black woman in this world. I don't 112 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 5: want to generalize, but I need to be clear. If 113 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 5: we do not start having these uncomfortable conversations, we'll never learn, 114 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 5: We'll never move past the divisive ideologies that continue to 115 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 5: pit white against black, keeping us trapped in the same 116 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 5: cycles of misunderstanding and separation. Which brings me back to 117 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 5: angel We caught up with her a few weeks before 118 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 5: her season ending injury when she was in Los Angeles 119 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 5: playing against the Sparks and asked how she's been able 120 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 5: to adjust to the highs and lows of fame. 121 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 8: We've all made mistakes, and we've all been down. 122 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 16: We all haven't had break days. 123 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 8: But I lived by the quote every day that's sun nostime. 124 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 8: But that's why I love tomorrow enough Voglo rolla, And 125 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 8: I always love that because every day is not going 126 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 8: to be a great day, but it's always tomorrow, and 127 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 8: I always look forward to tomorrow. 128 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 7: I look forward to how does so many fans come? 129 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 8: I here, y'all my name, and y'all my teammate's name, 130 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 8: and another oppicuerity to help pickgang grow. 131 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 5: Angelise is a different type of player in the women's game. 132 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 5: At twenty two years old. She's aware of how she's 133 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 5: perceived in the media. She's also painfully aware of the 134 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 5: role that's been assigned, yet she continues to show up 135 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 5: and bring her full self to work. I do not 136 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 5: know where she gets this confidence from. I don't know 137 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 5: if it's contrived or if it's really true, but it 138 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 5: feels authentic to me. Angel Rees is doing more than 139 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 5: enough to help the game grow, but for now. Her 140 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 5: rookie season ended. On September sixth. During a home game 141 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 5: in Chicago, Reece hit a three pointer and fell back 142 00:06:59,040 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 5: on her wrist. 143 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 7: So, yeah, no, I heard my wrists. I am out 144 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 7: for the season. 145 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 16: I fell on my hand when I got the em one, 146 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 16: but I fell back, fell on my hand, and it 147 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 16: is a small crack in my bone. Basically, the doctors 148 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 16: told me that I could either not get surgery or 149 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 16: I have surgery. The risk of not having surgery I 150 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 16: could literally have authoritis at twenty two years old, but 151 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 16: that wasn't an option. The bone could literally crack and 152 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 16: lytically shadow. 153 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 8: Right now. 154 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 16: It's like a hairline, literally a hairline like shatter, not. 155 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 7: Even not big. But they're going to put like a small, 156 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 7: little screw in it, and I. 157 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 16: Wasn't going for getting any bigger and long term. I 158 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 16: literally could have like not played anymore because my bone 159 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 16: is this is a very hard place to heal because 160 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 16: the bluffalo is. 161 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 7: Like literally solidal to none. 162 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 9: So that was an option. 163 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 7: So I'm getting surgery. 164 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 16: I'm litical beto hard cast for six four weeks, and 165 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 16: then I'm going to be in a soft cast for 166 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 16: two weeks that is removed, and then I'm back. 167 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 7: So six weeks I'll be back. 168 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 12: I just saw last night that she's out for the 169 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 12: rest of the year, and obviously you never want to 170 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 12: see anybody go down with injury, so you know, that 171 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 12: just breaks my heart and I just wish for a 172 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 12: speedya and quick recovery for her. 173 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 5: Angel Reese was born in Randallstown, Maryland. Reece will tell 174 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 5: anyone that she's one of Baltimore's finest. She played high 175 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 5: school ball at Saint Francis Academy. But long before Angel 176 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 5: Reese was a superstar on the collegiate and professional level, 177 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 5: she made a name for herself on the AAU circuit 178 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 5: playing for Team Takeover in Baltimore. Here's her coach, Ron Jenny, 179 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 5: So you were playing. You were sitting in the gym 180 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 5: watching Angel play, and you were talking to this guy 181 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 5: who wasn't yes and talking. 182 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 9: To this gentleman. 183 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,319 Speaker 17: I realized after the game when Angel walked up to 184 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 17: with her grandfather, so her mom couldn't bring her to 185 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 17: the workout that I had scheduled because it was a 186 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 17: scheduled conflict. 187 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:58,319 Speaker 9: But mom said it was okay for. 188 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:00,559 Speaker 17: Her to go as long as her for grandfather could 189 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 17: take them, and he, you know, agreed to bring her 190 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 17: to the workout. And by the time we were done 191 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 17: with the workout, we were in a gym, and through 192 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 17: our conversations, he really felt strongly that this was the place, 193 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 17: the right place for Angel and her growth in development. 194 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 17: More so a family affair, grandmother and grandfather were just 195 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 17: like they're just the most supportive grandparents you can believe. 196 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 17: I gets the stories for that over days. So they 197 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:27,079 Speaker 17: were there were support for her and her mom, along 198 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 17: with a brother as well. But I think Mom was 199 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 17: more so the decision maker, but she did confide in 200 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 17: her her parents for her support. 201 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 5: Well, when you think of Angel's grandparents, what do you 202 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 5: think about them? They both were there, the grandmother and 203 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 5: the grandfather. What do you think of them? What type 204 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:45,439 Speaker 5: of what type of tutelage were they like, were they 205 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 5: they strict? Were they encouraging when you were around them? 206 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 5: What was that relationship? 207 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 3: Like? 208 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 9: I mean, it was it was beautiful. 209 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 17: That's probably the best word to describe it when you 210 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,599 Speaker 17: talk about a family dynamic, especially from a coach perspective. 211 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 9: And it was almost like, I think they felt like 212 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 9: I could do no wrong. 213 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 17: You know, they always supported me anytime there was a 214 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 17: disagreement that Adri or that I would have. It's like, 215 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 17: you know, I was the coach, you know, and they 216 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 17: were super supportive. Her grandmother would not hesitate, whereas you know, 217 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,079 Speaker 17: between games we might be sitting at the refreshment area 218 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,680 Speaker 17: eating or something like that, she wouldn't hesitate to tell me, 219 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,839 Speaker 17: you get those girls together, coach ron, they can do this. 220 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 9: You got them, you know what I mean. 221 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 17: So she was kind of my all right, I'm more 222 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 17: worried about your grandmother than I am. 223 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 3: You. 224 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 17: Yeah, they were awesome, and we still stay connected every 225 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 17: now and again a little bit through through social media. 226 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 17: And I just always felt like they just, you know, 227 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 17: they felt like I was just like a perfect fit 228 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 17: for her, and I was a great guy for her, 229 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 17: So I've always appreciated that for them. But the thing 230 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 17: that I was drawn to more than any of those 231 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 17: things was her ability and her desire and hunger thirst 232 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 17: to compete. She is the ultimate ultimate competitor. She wants 233 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 17: to win at all costs. She'll do whatever it takes, 234 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 17: She'll play whatever role needs to be played. She wants 235 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 17: to win, and sometimes that looks. 236 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 5: Ugly team takeover a gritty, no nonsense club with the 237 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 5: winning tradition. Ron James knows her basketball spirit better than most. 238 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 5: He says, they spoke the same language and built a 239 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 5: beautiful relationship both on and off the court, a bond 240 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 5: rooted in their shared intensity and desire to win. 241 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 17: We both wanted to win. We both had that kind 242 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 17: of from a coach of perspective, that dog mentality. So 243 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 17: it was almost like, you know, I'm gonna let you 244 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 17: be you. I'm gonna be me. You know I'm not 245 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 17: gonna put two feet in your yard. You're not gonna 246 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 17: put two feet in my yard. So a standard and 247 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 17: expectation was there, and it just grew into this lovely 248 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 17: coach player relationship where we could talk about anything and 249 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 17: everything and still can't. We still do to this day. 250 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 17: It wasn't always pretty right, but I was okay with that. 251 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 17: You know a lot of people when you get that, 252 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 17: and sometimes you know challenge. You know, Angel challenges, right, 253 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,199 Speaker 17: But if you think about what she's challenging about, she's 254 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 17: always challenging about strategy of how to win, and I 255 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 17: was always okay with that. There are some people that 256 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 17: just can't handle that kind of a personality. And I 257 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 17: always say, you know, some people are for Angel and 258 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 17: some people are not. She's like age, why right, She's 259 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 17: for something, she's not for others. And that's just the 260 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 17: way it is. And not to sound like a cliche, 261 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 17: but take over, like great here to take over. We're 262 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,319 Speaker 17: going to be in your face. We're going to be aggressive, 263 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 17: We're coming to compete. When you play our teams, you 264 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 17: have to beat us down to beata. It's going to 265 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 17: be adult life, you know. 266 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 5: And also court Ron James says she was a caring 267 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 5: leader who demanded from her teammates but would match the 268 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 5: ask any day of the week. 269 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 17: Angel is one of the most caring people and players 270 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 17: that I've ever coached, And on other interviews I've given 271 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 17: this example. I just never, you know, forget being on 272 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 17: the road. She was doing stuff for the team that 273 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 17: I wasn't willing to do. 274 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 9: Right. 275 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 17: Angel was the kid that would collect everybody's uniforms and 276 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 17: go wash them. 277 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 7: Right. 278 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 17: Angel was a kid that, Okay, I'm going to go 279 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 17: get breakfast. The girls want to sleep in. So Angel 280 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 17: would meet me downstairs in the lobby and we would 281 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,079 Speaker 17: go to breakfast and she would have everybody's order, she 282 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 17: would have the debit cards. She even brought back condiments 283 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 17: that they went, calculated it all out, made sure that 284 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 17: the tip was there. Just those kinds of things. And 285 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 17: you know, when Angel is with you, she is with you. 286 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 17: And when you're with Angel, she knows it and she's 287 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 17: gonna ride and. 288 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 9: Die with you. 289 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 17: There was another young lady I just never forget this 290 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 17: story right where you know, Angels super competitive and sometimes 291 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 17: she's tough, right, she's tough to play with. But I 292 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 17: always told her, you can't get on your teammates for 293 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 17: things you're not doing or willing to do. So there 294 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 17: was a time where Angel thought this was a little 295 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 17: nickname we had, right, I'm doctor doing She thought she 296 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 17: was a plink, right, which she played some point for 297 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 17: me too, but I brought it in another young lady. 298 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 17: She actually just finished playing the Mississippi State and name 299 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 17: is Lauren park Lane. And Lauren comes in, She's all upset. 300 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 17: Angel won't give me the ball. Coach, Angel won't give 301 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 17: me the ball. I said, Lauren, I brought you here 302 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 17: to be the point guard. You need to walk up 303 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 17: to Angel. You're gonna have to look up right because 304 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 17: Lare's about five or four. And I said, let her 305 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 17: know who the point guard is and to give you 306 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 17: the damn ball. And that's what you say to her. 307 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 17: And Lauren did that exactly, and Angel said, okay. 308 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 9: Here. 309 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 17: They're the best of friends to this day, still connected, 310 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 17: still supportive of one another. I watch them support each 311 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 17: other on social media. But it's stuff like that about 312 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 17: Angel and her kindness right in her care for her team, 313 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 17: her teammates, her coaches, and those are around her and 314 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 17: in her circle. 315 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 5: Who is Angel Reese? We have more When making up 316 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 5: a rivalry returns back in a moment. 317 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 17: Somebody has to be the villain, right, I mean, be 318 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 17: honest with you. You know we've kind of carried ourselves 319 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 17: throughout that way. Like you know, we play in front 320 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 17: of large crowds all the time in our program, right, 321 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 17: and Angel was a part of that. And I used 322 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 17: to always tell her, like, everybody's not here to see you, 323 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 17: and they're here to see you loose, right, they're seeing 324 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 17: who can the thrown take team takeoff? 325 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 9: Who could thrown dethrown Angel Reaes. 326 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 17: So you're kind of taking the part of the villain, 327 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 17: which you kind of used to now a lot of 328 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 17: the stuff, you know, when you get on social media, 329 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 17: you got some you know, wacky people out there that 330 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 17: just exists. But it's just it's just funny, how what 331 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 17: you know? Is it because of her approach? Is it 332 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 17: because of her her her tone and how she does 333 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 17: things that she's portrayed as the villain? Why why is 334 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 17: she the villain and not the hero? 335 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 18: Everything ain't all gonna be all pieces of green, Like, 336 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 18: that's not what entertainment is. You need a villain, you 337 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 18: need a bad guy, you need a savior, you. 338 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 9: Need a captain. You know what I'm saying. 339 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 18: That's just what America, Like, that's how America entertainment is. 340 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 7: Like, that's how entertainment is. So you know, you kind 341 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 7: of just can't get it all wrapped into it. 342 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 18: Like you kind of just gotta be a thing where 343 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 18: it's like like like you just kind of got to 344 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 18: embrace the moment as a player, as a fan, like 345 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 18: of course they want to see that. It's always a 346 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 18: storyline that's gonna sell, Like it gotta be you see 347 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 18: what I'm saying, Like, it gotta be something that sells, 348 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 18: So you know, I see it. Like but as long 349 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 18: as you know the recal and you know, like this, 350 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 18: ain't we about it? 351 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 3: Did? 352 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 5: Angel's former teammate at LSU, wile J. Johnson, says playing 353 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 5: at LSU with Angel, she knew they would have all 354 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 5: eyes on them. Admittedly it was tough for a rewarding 355 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 5: two years. She's loyal to LSU and Kimoki, but she's 356 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 5: also grateful to be teammates with Angel while witnessing one 357 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 5: of the greatest moments in women's sports. 358 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 7: I got to like. 359 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 18: Have a big role in that season, right, Nobody ever 360 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,199 Speaker 18: thought that that was boiled down to with it boiled 361 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,119 Speaker 18: down to but I got to grace the floor with 362 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 18: two of the biggest female stars that we'll ever see 363 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 18: in our lifetime, Angel, we said, Caitlyn and Clark, right, 364 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 18: and just to be in that in that moment and 365 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 18: see those two kind of just catastrophically become the face 366 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 18: of women's basketball. 367 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 7: It was beautiful. It was something that we. 368 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,120 Speaker 18: Needed, and I'm glad I was on the winning's side, 369 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,400 Speaker 18: right But overall. 370 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 7: When you look at that, when you look at. 371 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 18: That game, it's like wow, like this just changed our life. 372 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 18: This kind of just changed the world, Like this kind 373 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:46,919 Speaker 18: of just changed women's basketball as a whole. Were on 374 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 18: the biggest stage just being ourselves. It was beautiful, and 375 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 18: I understand the part that I played in it, but 376 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 18: as a fan of it, I'm just grateful for the 377 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 18: part that Angel and Caitlyn played in it, Like you 378 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:00,200 Speaker 18: know what I'm saying, and the way that the people 379 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 18: were able to just man historically make that a movement. 380 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:07,440 Speaker 18: And man, I was just grateful to be a part 381 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 18: of it. And I'll forever going to be just grateful 382 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 18: to have Big Lsu to come to the school to 383 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 18: winch the neat freshman year, Like it's insane. 384 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 5: I've coached some really great ones, but I don't know 385 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 5: that I've seen any go to the boards like this. 386 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 8: Offensive rebounds and defensive rebounds is something that I know 387 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 8: I can always do. I knew it was going to 388 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 8: translate right away, and that's something that a lot of 389 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 8: players don't want to do. A lot of people think 390 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 8: it's because I get my own rebounds, but statistically it's not. 391 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 8: A lot of people think it's because I'm the tallest 392 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 8: on the court when I'm not the tallest on the court. 393 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 8: So just being able to go down there and being 394 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 8: able to bang doing things that a lot of people 395 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 8: don't want to do, defense and rebound and wins championships. 396 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 8: And I've won championships at every level by just doing this. 397 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 5: At present, Angel is being coached by Teresa Riverspoon, affectionately 398 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,159 Speaker 5: known as Tea Spoon, and she was also one of 399 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 5: the WNBA's all time great It. 400 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:56,360 Speaker 9: Was the end of the game. 401 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,199 Speaker 8: They were only a couple of seconds left, and then 402 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 8: Spoon gets the ball and it was like in she 403 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 8: takes it? 404 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 9: How they win Game two? 405 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,120 Speaker 16: This crowd is absolutely stunned. 406 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 5: Now, as the head coach of the Chicago Sky, it 407 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 5: feels almost serendipitous for her to have Angel Reese on 408 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 5: a roster, a coach player relationship that seems destined a 409 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 5: perfect fit of hard work, talent, and shared passion for 410 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 5: the game. 411 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 13: It's a mindset and that's the difference. 412 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:26,919 Speaker 7: She wants it. 413 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 13: She's not gonna allow a box out to keep her 414 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 13: from trying to get an offensive rebound. She's very physical 415 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:34,239 Speaker 13: down there, but she knows what it takes to go 416 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,679 Speaker 13: and get offensive rebounds, give us second chance opportunities. But 417 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 13: it's a desire. It's a desire to go get a 418 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:44,439 Speaker 13: rebound and not being held back from doing so. She 419 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 13: goes hard after it. She takes it very personally. She 420 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 13: wants to go get it done. She's very serious about 421 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 13: her work of getting rebounds. She knows that's the thing 422 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 13: that she brings to this team to help us to 423 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 13: be so successful, and she's mastering that role. 424 00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 9: Just being out but be me. 425 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 8: I think as a rookie, I've kind of been matched 426 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 8: up with a lot of great players and just understanding 427 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 8: that it's I can have growth growth points, and I 428 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 8: think I've learned throughout this this season so far, watching 429 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 8: a lot of film and being able to take a 430 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 8: lot of things and trying to implement them in my 431 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 8: game and learn from them. So just being able to 432 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 8: be my biggest critic, but also just patting myself in 433 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 8: the back when I do do great. 434 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 5: Things, which is why everyone who I spoke with that 435 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 5: covers and or plays with Angel says she fights for 436 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 5: every single possession on the court, and some journalists say 437 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 5: they believe Angel controls the emotional temperature for the Chicago 438 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 5: Sky even though she's just a rookie. 439 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 6: Angel reades the style of play she reminds me. Wow, 440 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,360 Speaker 6: she funny enough. She reminds me of an Asia Wilson, 441 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 6: and and by that I see a lot of similarities. 442 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,119 Speaker 6: Her ability to really play strong underneath the rim is 443 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,439 Speaker 6: something that I love about Angel. She crashes the boards 444 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 6: like no other, as we all know because of the 445 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 6: records that she's broken, but her style of play is 446 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 6: She's gritty and she understands that her job first is 447 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 6: to be that rebounder, to be that with very Lisa 448 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 6: Leslie ish too, but I certainly see a lot. I 449 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 6: guess I could see a mix a mix of Lisa 450 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 6: in a mix of Asia together. Once she's able to 451 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 6: master the art of scoring around the rim and finishing 452 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 6: around the rim, I think she'll trend more towards Lisa. 453 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,120 Speaker 6: But I love that style of play about her. She's 454 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,880 Speaker 6: gritty underneath the basket. She knows that's where she needs 455 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 6: to be. 456 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 5: Tarika Poster Bradsby is a sideline reporter with the Connecticut 457 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 5: Son but she's been covering the WNBA for over a decade. 458 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 6: It's a predominantly black league, very high ogbt QIA plus community, 459 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 6: and they not trying to and we're women. I mean 460 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 6: that in itself is like whoa right, But you don't 461 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,959 Speaker 6: have that same level of difficulty when it comes to 462 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 6: the women's national team from a soccer perspective. 463 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:03,919 Speaker 7: So it leads you to believe what. 464 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 6: Makes it different between the soccer team and the basketball team, 465 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 6: And that's it. It's not just that we're women, it's 466 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 6: that we're black women and that we're black gay women, 467 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 6: and that in itself, we can't sell that to Middle America. 468 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,360 Speaker 6: It is why at the beginning of the WNBA, if 469 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 6: you remember, early on, they used. 470 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 7: To force. 471 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,160 Speaker 6: They would force the players to dress a certain way, 472 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 6: to look a certain way, to present a certain way 473 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 6: so that they could be quote unquote marketable. 474 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 5: But fast forward to present day and Tarika says, these 475 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,199 Speaker 5: two players grab the league and raise the standard of 476 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 5: what is expected and deserved. 477 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 6: This is the place we hope to get to, Like 478 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,239 Speaker 6: we hoped to be at a place where we can 479 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:49,239 Speaker 6: have these conversations. We hoped that women's basketball would get 480 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 6: to a place where we've got media companies fighting for 481 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,199 Speaker 6: deals for rights to air the product. We hoped that 482 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:58,360 Speaker 6: we would get to a place where these women could 483 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 6: fly in charter planes. We hoped to get to a 484 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,679 Speaker 6: place where, you know, we're watching an NBA game and 485 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 6: in the middle of the broadcast they're talking about two 486 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,879 Speaker 6: players in the WNBA or how amazing a WNBA game was. 487 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 6: So the overall essence of what's happening in women's basketball 488 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,119 Speaker 6: right now is what we've been trying to get to 489 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 6: for almost thirty years. This game is only going to 490 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 6: get better because the talent is getting better, and they 491 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 6: are bringing with them a fan base and a platform 492 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 6: and a demand really for a standard that this league 493 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,679 Speaker 6: has not seen before. And that's really something that I 494 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 6: attribute to to Caitlin and Angel. They brought with them 495 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 6: a standard, you know, like you can't leave this place 496 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 6: and come to this place and be here again, Like 497 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 6: if we're here now, you have to elevate to where 498 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 6: we are, and the league is attempting to do that. 499 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 2: My name is Mitchell Northam I work at North Carolina 500 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 2: Public Radio w n C, which is our MPR affiliate 501 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 2: here in Chapel Hill, and I also cover a lot 502 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 2: of women's college basketball, and having now for a few years, 503 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 2: Angel has really been the more impactful player here in 504 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 2: year one. And I think that's a testament to her drive, 505 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 2: her upbringing on those those courts in Baltimore, and just 506 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 2: her overall tenacity and her desire to prove naysayer is wrong. 507 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 2: And then you know, the other part of Angel Reese 508 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 2: on the court is kind of this swagger that she 509 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 2: plays with in this competitive fire. I think in many 510 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,679 Speaker 2: ways she has kind of led the charge over the 511 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,479 Speaker 2: past four or five years and women's basketball players showing 512 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 2: passion and competitiveness on the court. She has sort of 513 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,199 Speaker 2: normalized trash talk and women's basketball. There were These are 514 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 2: all things that we clamor for and love when we 515 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 2: see from our male athletes, right touchdown celebrations and flexing 516 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 2: after dunks and starredowns and bat flips after home runs. 517 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 2: But for some reason, it was taboo when a woman 518 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,880 Speaker 2: did it in her sport. You know, detractors wanted their 519 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:09,199 Speaker 2: women athletes to be quote unquote ladylike and polite, but 520 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 2: showing that competitive fire and that swagger and the trash 521 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 2: talking while winning is one of the things that makes 522 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 2: sports entertaining, and we don't want our stars to be boring, 523 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 2: and so there were certainly women before Angelies who weren't 524 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 2: afraid to be themselves on the court in terms of 525 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 2: how they acted or presented themselves. I think of players 526 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 2: like Skyler Diggins and Clonnie Brown. They sort of opened 527 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 2: the door for that, but then angel kicked that door 528 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 2: down off Tinges, just with the unapologetic way that she 529 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 2: plays and presents herself. 530 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 5: I'm old enough to remember a time when I would 531 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 5: interview WNBA players and the polish of being a professional 532 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 5: was seemingly dull. In my opinion, it was because the 533 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 5: sport wasn't respected or valued in many ways. Their answers 534 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 5: were politically correct, very little personality, and it felt as 535 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 5: if they wanted it to be perfect in order to elevate. 536 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 5: I don't know if it's because women are socialized to 537 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,640 Speaker 5: be very demure, very mindful, very cute see or there 538 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,160 Speaker 5: was a subtle messaging that forced these women to play 539 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:17,199 Speaker 5: small all pun intended. I understand that hesitation as a 540 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 5: woman in a professional world. But what I loved about 541 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:24,439 Speaker 5: Angel and her generation is that there is an ownership 542 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 5: and a confidence that's contagious. 543 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 8: I realized my purpose within the last year or two, 544 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 8: understanding that I'm more than a basketball player, and my 545 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 8: inspiration has gone farther than that. I didn't really realize that. 546 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,239 Speaker 8: I thought just being able to show up every day 547 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 8: and get better and just love the game. But I 548 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 8: know how many people come out and just to be 549 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 8: inspired just by me running up and down the court 550 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 8: and just the way I look, or just my lashes 551 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 8: on my hair, and just how I inspire so many 552 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 8: different people. So I continue to do that no matter what. 553 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,199 Speaker 8: I love basketball so much, but outside of it, I 554 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:54,159 Speaker 8: know I left my impact. 555 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,640 Speaker 5: When we return Making of a Rivalry, you will preview 556 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 5: episode four the Big Game LSU versus IOWA and what 557 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 5: most fans don't know. You all were not even aware 558 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 5: of how people were responding to Angel Reese's you know 559 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 5: check the ring, you can't see me to Caitlin Clark. 560 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:15,399 Speaker 5: You had no idea. 561 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 6: We could not see that. And here's the funny thing, 562 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 6: so funny story. During the Final four, I was actually 563 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 6: on assignment where I had a chance to talk to 564 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,640 Speaker 6: each and every team, and I had a different angle 565 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 6: for what I was talking to to all the final 566 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 6: four teams. 567 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,120 Speaker 7: When it got to Iowa, my angle was, you. 568 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 6: Know, you guys think that Caitlyn Clark talks a lot 569 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 6: of smack on the court. I want to know more 570 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 6: about the smack talk that she does on the court, 571 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 6: and if she doesn't in the locker room. 572 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,919 Speaker 5: We'll be back in just a few moments. 573 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 11: I think just being able to be in that moment 574 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,920 Speaker 11: of it happening, you never realized how something can literally 575 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 11: change your life. And knowing my five fingers and my 576 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 11: other finger pointing at my hand could literally have changed 577 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 11: my life for like forever. 578 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 7: It's crazy. 579 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 10: So it's interesting because live I didn't even notice that 580 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,120 Speaker 10: it was happening. Obviously on television they make a big deal. 581 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 10: You know, you can see, uh, there's there's a lot 582 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,639 Speaker 10: of you can't see me the ring me, which, to 583 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 10: be fair, Alice, you have been doing throughout the tournament. 584 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,119 Speaker 4: When Angel Reeson then played and Angel rees put it 585 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 4: back in her face, I was like, okay, Like this 586 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,719 Speaker 4: is competition the way I like it, and me like 587 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 4: when I was watching the game. It wasn't that big. 588 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:35,639 Speaker 4: I was like, oh, this is great. She pointed out 589 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 4: a ring, she did all this, and then like I 590 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 4: feel like immediately that day it became like, oh she's Angels. 591 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 4: I remember like Angel getting called class list and I 592 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 4: was like, and this is for me. 593 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 9: It was like here we go again. 594 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: And so you know, when someone trash talk is trash 595 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: talks the darling of you know, the country in a 596 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: game in which you know she's going to lose, you know, 597 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: people are going to get frustrated by that and upset 598 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: by that and mad by that, and so I kind 599 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: of I was able to process like, oh, that's gonna 600 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 1: be that's gonna be a story in the aftermath. 601 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 9: But for me in the moment, I'm also part of 602 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 9: the other reason. 603 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: I'm just like, I think what I said on air 604 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,840 Speaker 1: was just Angel Reese letting Kaylin Clark know a ring 605 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 1: is coming. 606 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 9: I think I was. 607 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 3: Worried about the discourse because it was women. I think 608 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 3: I was worried about the discourse because it was wrong, 609 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 3: you know. And for me, I have been a part 610 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 3: of all aspects of basketball. If you're a real hooper, 611 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 3: you know that when you grow up and you play. 612 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 7: If you got game, you got game, game recognized game. 613 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 3: If you go out on the playground and they're boys there, 614 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 3: you're not afraid of them. 615 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 7: If you love the game, you go out there and hoop. 616 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 7: And so there's always been. 617 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 3: This camaraderie amongst sports that has been internal. 618 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 7: But on the outside there have been so many preconceived notions. 619 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 3: About what women's basketball players, what the product is like, 620 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 3: what women's basketball players should be doing, how they should 621 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 3: conduct themselves in the middle of competition. And I just 622 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 3: found so many of those aspects wrong. We have women 623 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 3: that are bad assets. We have women that are trash talkers. 624 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 3: We have women that will hit you with a hard foul. 625 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 3: We have women that will hit you with the tweet and. 626 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 7: Croft fadeaway jumper. You know, that is our authentic self. 627 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 3: And I think for people to come in say, oh, 628 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 3: this is how we expect you to play, not knowing 629 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 3: that they hadn't lived that experience, to me was frustrating 630 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 3: and so we had to go into like correction mode. 631 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 5: Every single person who covered the now infamous LSU game 632 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 5: said they had no idea was an issue. As a 633 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 5: professional covering athletes. Angel Rees was trash talking, and to me, 634 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 5: that is a rite of passage for any athlete who wins, 635 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 5: especially a national championship. However, what I've learned while making 636 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 5: this docu series is that women's sports has never truly 637 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 5: been under the microscope, meaning the masses were not always invested. 638 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 5: There are some exceptions to that rule, but overall, this 639 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 5: was the first time in this modern era that the 640 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 5: casual fan found themselves truly invested, and they didn't like 641 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 5: what they saw. 642 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 2: You know, it broke a bunch of viewership records. And 643 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 2: these were all people who were sort of new to 644 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 2: the game, and I think they just maybe too quickly 645 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 2: decided to pick sides. And you know, there was a 646 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 2: narrative born. People formed takes about etiquette and sportsmanship and race, 647 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 2: and they used Reese and Clark as catalysts for those opinions, 648 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 2: and I think a lot of them were kind of 649 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 2: tired and cliched and really lacked the proper nuance required 650 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 2: for such a discussion of that sort. You know, if 651 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 2: you watch Caitlyn Clark play, she is similar into the 652 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 2: way that she carries herself that Angel Reese is. It 653 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 2: was just in that moment, in that game where a 654 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 2: lot of people were watching for the first time. They 655 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 2: saw Clark losing in that moment, and they saw Angel, 656 00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 2: you know, basking in the the glory of a win 657 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 2: and getting one last laugh. Again, going back to like 658 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 2: my point earlier, this is something that we would love 659 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 2: to see in the men's game. It adds drama and 660 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 2: adds all this stuff. I think people just jumped and 661 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 2: took it too. 662 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 9: Far and you know, kind of made Angel Reaes into 663 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 9: this villain. 664 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 5: The aesthetics of a taller black girl taunting a smaller, 665 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 5: seemingly more fragile white girl sent the Internet into overdrive, 666 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 5: while separate fan bases attacked both Angel and Clark, when 667 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 5: apparently both these young ladies were simply unbothered, solely focused 668 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 5: on the outcome of the championship game. In summary, perception 669 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 5: has more power than reality. All that more coming up 670 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 5: in episode four, The Big Game LSU versus IOWA. Thank 671 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,239 Speaker 5: you for listening. I'll talk to y'all next week. The 672 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 5: Making of a Rivalry Caitlin Clark Versus Angel Reese is 673 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 5: a Be Honest production in partnership with the Black Effect 674 00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 5: podcast Network. In iHeart Women's Sports, written and executive produced 675 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 5: by me Kerry Champion. Supervising producer is Arlene Santana, produced 676 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 5: by Jock Vice Thomas Sound Design and mastered by Dwayne Crawford. 677 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 5: Associate producer Olubu Saile Shabby. Naked Sports is a part 678 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 5: of the Black Effect podcast network in iHeartMedia. Hey everybody, 679 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 5: if you're new to Naked Sports, welcome to the podcast, 680 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 5: and for those who've been with us since season one, 681 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 5: thank you for right now. We're kicking off season four 682 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 5: with this six episode docu series that you're listening to 683 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 5: right now, and after that, Naked Sports will continue to 684 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 5: live at the intersection of sports, politics, and culture for 685 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 5: covering all things from the presidential race to the WNBA 686 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 5: Rookie of the Year contests. This season will be bold, 687 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 5: as you can already tell, no holds barred, but also 688 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 5: we'll bring you that same vulnerable storytelling technique that makes 689 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 5: our show so very unique. We appreciate you for being 690 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 5: here and thank you all for the support. We'll talk 691 00:33:58,080 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 5: to you next week.