Speaker 1: Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of I Heart Radio
Speaker 1: and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minky. Listener discretion is advised, Hey, friends,
Speaker 1: particularly those near California and Arizona. I am heading your
Speaker 1: way very soon, and I don't make it out that
Speaker 1: way very often. My life with the Afterlife Speaking Tour
Speaker 1: is making stops at the Crest Theater in Sacramento on
Speaker 1: September four, the Rialto Theater in Tucson, Arizona on September
Speaker 1: the Talking Stick Resort in Scottsdale, Arizona on September six,
Speaker 1: and the Balboa Theater in San Diego on September. So
Speaker 1: tickets can be found at the venues websites, and I
Speaker 1: hope to see you there. While filming for a show
Speaker 1: called Ghost Hunters that if you didn't know, I spent
Speaker 1: seven seasons on, I had what stands to this day
Speaker 1: as being the strangest experience I've ever had in a theater.
Speaker 1: Adam Burry and I had drawn the short straw when
Speaker 1: it came to investigating a very particular claim at a
Speaker 1: theater we were filming at. You see, the claim was
Speaker 1: that every night at three am, a figure could be
Speaker 1: seen high up in the balcony. You had to be
Speaker 1: on the stage to see it, but if you saw it,
Speaker 1: this figure would wave at you. B s. We all laughed,
Speaker 1: but we had to check this out because the facility
Speaker 1: was adamant. So as the rest of the team packed
Speaker 1: up and left for the night, Adam and I stayed
Speaker 1: behind to wait for three am. Again the short straw.
Speaker 1: We along with a lone camera operator and producer, perched
Speaker 1: on the stage and waited. As the clock ticked three,
Speaker 1: we peered up in the darkness. We called out, hello, nothing.
Speaker 1: We scanned the seats, scanned the railings, and then we
Speaker 1: saw it, not in the balcony, but standing in one
Speaker 1: of the doorways at the back of the balcony where
Speaker 1: people would enter to take their seats, a white figure
Speaker 1: drifting in and out of focus. Hello. We called who
Speaker 1: was up there? But we knew no one was there.
Speaker 1: We personally watched everyone leave. Plus this didn't look like
Speaker 1: a solid person. So we looked at each other and
Speaker 1: looked back up in the balcony and we waved, and
Speaker 1: I kid you not, that odd white figure lifted what
Speaker 1: I assumed to be its arm and started waving back.
Speaker 1: And then it just stood there and waved and waved
Speaker 1: and did not stop waving, this strange slow wave that
Speaker 1: to this day sends chills down my spine. We tried
Speaker 1: desperately to capture what we were seeing on camera, but
Speaker 1: with how far away it was, it was nearly impossible.
Speaker 1: Our camera operator, witnessing this as well, also tried. At
Speaker 1: some point we ran up to the balcony to the
Speaker 1: very spot where this figure was, but as you can imagine,
Speaker 1: no one was there, so you'll just have to take
Speaker 1: my word for it. You'll also have to take my word.
Speaker 1: Theaters can be crazy haunted, so let's visit one with
Speaker 1: some wild history attached to it and of course lots
Speaker 1: of ghosts. We're headed to the Paramount Theater in Asbury Park,
Speaker 1: New Jersey. I'm Amy Brunei, and this is haunted road.
Speaker 1: Early in the morning on September eight, Nur, while the
Speaker 1: ship was churning through an intense storm on its way
Speaker 1: to New York, flames shot through the walls of the S. S.
Speaker 1: Morrow Castle. The blaze destroyed the electrical work and disabled
Speaker 1: the communications system, leaving the luxury liner dead in the
Speaker 1: water unable to call for help. By the time the
Speaker 1: blaze had calmed. Approximately one seven people had perished, many
Speaker 1: while asleep in their beds. But from the shore in
Speaker 1: Asbury Park, New Jersey, people knew what was happening aboard
Speaker 1: the S. S. Morrow Castle. They stood on the beaches
Speaker 1: watching the ship burn, powerless to help the people aboard
Speaker 1: until their bodies washed up on shore. In the months
Speaker 1: that followed, tourists flooded the convention hall and the attached
Speaker 1: Paramount Theater, paying twenty five cents apiece to see the
Speaker 1: charred remains of the ship, which washed ashore next to
Speaker 1: the buildings. Some looted the cabins of the wealthy who
Speaker 1: had been aboard. Others speculated about the cause of the
Speaker 1: disastrous fire, which was later determined to be arson, saying
Speaker 1: it was an inside job by the government or enemies
Speaker 1: of the United States. The tragedy left its mark on
Speaker 1: the community, and some say filled the theater with the
Speaker 1: souls of those who perished and who cannot find rest.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't the first time that stretch of coastline
Speaker 1: had seen a tragedy on such a grand scale. A
Speaker 1: century earlier, another ship burned, killing more than two hundred
Speaker 1: people aboard, just off the land where the Paramount Theater
Speaker 1: sits today. Is it any wonder the building is full
Speaker 1: of ghosts. Founded in eighteen seventy one on the northern
Speaker 1: shores of New Jersey, Asbury Park quickly developed into a
Speaker 1: resort town. People sunned themselves on the town's beaches, strolled
Speaker 1: the boardwalk, and by night danced in its dance halls,
Speaker 1: as Ray Gallagher wrote in his History of Asbury Park,
Speaker 1: by the early twentieth century, Asbury Park cemented itself as
Speaker 1: New Jersey's premier tourist destination. The city decided it needed
Speaker 1: a large gathering place for visitors, which would attract even
Speaker 1: bigger crowds and drive the growing tourism industry. That place
Speaker 1: would be the Beachfront complex housing the Asbury Park Convention
Speaker 1: Center and the attached Paramount Theater, which were first planned
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixteen, but didn't secure funding until a decade later.
Speaker 1: According to the U S Department of the Interior, the
Speaker 1: plan to build a convention center in Asbury Park was
Speaker 1: steeped in controversy from the start. On the one hand,
Speaker 1: there were those who believed that the building was necessary
Speaker 1: for Asbury Park to meet the demands of tourists. On
Speaker 1: the other hand, there was an equally vociferous group who
Speaker 1: maintained that the increased public financial burden would be suicidal.
Speaker 1: The complex was designed to accommodate a lot of people,
Speaker 1: thirty four hundred in the convention Center and just across
Speaker 1: the arcade connecting the buildings, sixteen hundred in the theater.
Speaker 1: They were designed by the same architects who envisioned Manhattan's
Speaker 1: Grand Central Station in the eclectic style popular in the day,
Speaker 1: with seashells and nautical motifs decorating the facades of the buildings.
Speaker 1: Inside the Convention Center is a massive seven hundred pipe
Speaker 1: organ built into the walls themselves, so the instrument is
Speaker 1: actually part of the architecture. The Department of the Interior
Speaker 1: describes the theater's decor is consisting of offset concentric light
Speaker 1: panels of amber cathedral glass, interspersed with reinforced plaster, ornamentation
Speaker 1: of floral character and female nudes, and perforated ornamentation for ventilation.
Speaker 1: When it first opened its doors on New Year's Day
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty, the first movie the theater showed was Howard
Speaker 1: He Uses Wings. Not long after, people filled those seats
Speaker 1: to watch music legends like Benny Goodman and Duke Ellington perform.
Speaker 1: Much later, Asbury Park's biggest claim to fame would be
Speaker 1: launching Bruce Springsteen's career. He was born just a few
Speaker 1: miles away in Long Branch. While Asbury Park endured a
Speaker 1: fire in nineteen seventeen that destroyed four blocks of the city,
Speaker 1: the burning of the USS Morrow Castle was a tragedy
Speaker 1: on an enormous scale. It brought national attention to the
Speaker 1: theater and convention Center when news of the fire broke
Speaker 1: as it was happening, though, the ship's burning was more
Speaker 1: of a maccabre spectacle, with crowds gathering to watch the
Speaker 1: conflagration as it slowly inched its way to shore, nearly
Speaker 1: hitting the convention Center before making a turn and breaching
Speaker 1: by the theater instead. Maybe it was because entertainment was
Speaker 1: hard to come by in the middle of the Great
Speaker 1: Depression when the Moroal Castle burned. Maybe it's because many
Speaker 1: of the people living in the small seaside city had
Speaker 1: never before seen a luxury liner, which broke speed records
Speaker 1: when it launched and made weekly voyages for wealthy passengers
Speaker 1: between New York and Havanna. But the event was absolutely
Speaker 1: a spectacle that brought people in droves. Spectators created what
Speaker 1: Gordon Thomas and Max Morgan Wits called an almost carnival
Speaker 1: atmosphere where vendors of hot dogs, soft drinks and coffee
Speaker 1: did risk business. It took a whole day for the
Speaker 1: Morol Castle to drift ashore. The ship continued to smolder
Speaker 1: for days, with explosions hampering efforts to search for potential
Speaker 1: survivors on board. According to author Eric Larson, who wrote
Speaker 1: about the Moral Castle disaster, the remains became a major
Speaker 1: tourist attraction, with ordinary people driving to the city from
Speaker 1: all over the Tri state area to pose for macabb
Speaker 1: photos in front of the ship. In fact, the Asbury
Speaker 1: Park City Council proposed keeping the ship there as a
Speaker 1: permanent tourist attraction, only to reverse course when the idea
Speaker 1: was condemned as gruesome. Official records say that five hundred
Speaker 1: fifty people were on board the ship when it burned,
Speaker 1: but some numbers, taking into account Cuban refuge children on
Speaker 1: their way to America, placed the count as high as
Speaker 1: six d twenty people. Nearly one hundred forty of them died,
Speaker 1: many charred beyond identification. One survivor, Cuban national Renee Mendez Capote,
Speaker 1: told the press, I am sure most of the passengers
Speaker 1: burned to death while they slept. There was no warning.
Speaker 1: I am alive only by luck, accident, or perhaps through
Speaker 1: some higher power that watched over me. A contemporary newsreel
Speaker 1: referred to it as a terrible tragedy of the sea,
Speaker 1: equalled only by those of the Titanic and Lusitania footage
Speaker 1: when the reel shows the ship still at sea, with
Speaker 1: smoke streaming from the vessel and passengers visible in the water,
Speaker 1: as well as locals pulling victims out of the surf
Speaker 1: on the Asbury Park beach. Some claim that the Paramount
Speaker 1: was used as a makeshift morgue for victims of the fire,
Speaker 1: but that claim is hard to substantiate. The majority of
Speaker 1: unclaimed bodies were moved to a temporary morgue set up
Speaker 1: at the National Guards station Camp more down the coast
Speaker 1: in Seagirt. The legend may come from a wishing boat
Speaker 1: called the Paramount, which was involved in picking up survivors
Speaker 1: and bodies during the wreck. Whether or not the theater
Speaker 1: was used as a morgue, it was definitely involved in
Speaker 1: the tragedy. Rescuers made early attempts to reach the ships,
Speaker 1: burned out wreckage from the building. According to a nineteen
Speaker 1: thirty four news article in The Evening Courier, members of
Speaker 1: the Coastguards stood on the promenade of the Convention Hall
Speaker 1: and using a lile gun, fired a line aboard and
Speaker 1: a breeches buoy was rigged up. At least one body
Speaker 1: was brought back across from the Morrow Castle via this line,
Speaker 1: although what happened to it after that is unclear. As
Speaker 1: the article described, one body was taken off the Morrow Castle,
Speaker 1: two had been found on the ship, and there was
Speaker 1: no telling how many more were burned to death in
Speaker 1: their cabins. When the searing flames swept through the liner,
Speaker 1: the body was hoisted ashore by the breeches buoy. It
Speaker 1: was burned beyond recognition, but it was believed that of
Speaker 1: a man. The inspection party found another body, but could
Speaker 1: not get to it because of the heat. Others, including journalists,
Speaker 1: paid five dollars for use of this breach is booy
Speaker 1: to access the ship, with an extra charge to rent
Speaker 1: a gas mask or a flashlight. At least one man
Speaker 1: used this opportunity to loot the ship of deceased passengers
Speaker 1: personal items, including diamonds belonging to a Miss Katherine Cochrane,
Speaker 1: whose body still lay in her suite alongside her jewels.
Speaker 1: The Convention Center turned the Morrow Castle into a money
Speaker 1: making endeavor. According to a contemporary account from The Evening Courier,
Speaker 1: the center's management through the place open to the public
Speaker 1: at twenty five cents admission. From the balconies of the hall,
Speaker 1: a particularly good view could be obtained. A sign in
Speaker 1: front of the hall read twenty five cents to see
Speaker 1: the Ss morrow Castle. Benefit of the families who died.
Speaker 1: It's estimated that in the six months the boat was
Speaker 1: on the beach, over one hundred thousand people came to
Speaker 1: see it. There was, though, some good news that came
Speaker 1: from the tragedy. According to the Asbury Park Historical Society,
Speaker 1: the devastating fire aboard the Morrow Castle was a cat
Speaker 1: A list for improved shipboard fire safety. Today, the use
Speaker 1: of fire retarded materials, automatic fire doors, and ship wide
Speaker 1: fire alarms is a direct result of the Morrow Castle disaster.
Speaker 1: The incident also led to greater attention being placed on
Speaker 1: fire drills and lifeboat procedures. Because of all the increased tourism,
Speaker 1: the theater saw a boost in attendance, with twice as
Speaker 1: many people turning out for shows like Italian boxer Primo
Speaker 1: Carnera's sparring demonstrations. It's likely that the Paramount even showed
Speaker 1: one of the various news reels made of the Morrow Castle,
Speaker 1: some footage of which was facilitated by the breaches booy
Speaker 1: from the Convention Hall. Somehow, it was not the first
Speaker 1: shipwreck to beach itself in that spot. In eighteen fifty four,
Speaker 1: the New Era was sailing from Bremen to New York
Speaker 1: when it ran aground and sank close to where the
Speaker 1: Convention Hall now stands. Over two hundred people, mostly emigrants
Speaker 1: from Germany, died in the tragedy, which helped spur the
Speaker 1: creation of what is now the U. S Coast Guard.
Speaker 1: Because a ship was the final resting place of many people,
Speaker 1: to this day we still don't know the exact number,
Speaker 1: and because it's spent so long on the beach next
Speaker 1: to the complex, many believe that the ghosts of the
Speaker 1: Morrow Castle is Dead still haunt the area around the
Speaker 1: Convention Hall and Paramount Theater. One investigator claims to have
Speaker 1: found an infant's footprint in the dust at the back
Speaker 1: of the theater, and people report feeling cold spots throughout
Speaker 1: the complex. A light bulb once crashed to the floor
Speaker 1: for no apparent reason, and lights sometimes turn themselves on
Speaker 1: and off. There are many accounts of shadow figures in
Speaker 1: the space, especially on the balconies. If you've seen the
Speaker 1: Paramount Theater episode of Kindred Spirits, you know that Adam
Speaker 1: and I spotted many of those shadow figures while we
Speaker 1: were there investigating, which also coincidentally happened to be on
Speaker 1: the eight fifth anniversary of the Morrow Castle disaster. According
Speaker 1: to Patricia Hire's book Haunted Jersey Shore, there are testimonies
Speaker 1: of unexplained sounds such as voices, laughter, crying, and even
Speaker 1: screaming in the space. She also wrote that audience members
Speaker 1: claimed to have been admonished by a peculiar gray shadow
Speaker 1: if they do not pay attention during a performance. Overnight.
Speaker 1: Security guards have claimed to hear the conventions Hall pipe
Speaker 1: organ playing. One insists that he once saw a shadow
Speaker 1: figure in old fashioned clothing playing the organ. There are
Speaker 1: also claims that two young women sometimes identified as cabaret
Speaker 1: show girls, were burned to death in a dressing room
Speaker 1: in the theater. I personally investigated this claim and found
Speaker 1: there had been a fire near the dressing room area,
Speaker 1: evidence of which is very apparent, but it actually happened
Speaker 1: in the nineteen eighties, and the fire itself was contained
Speaker 1: to one room, a storage room, not the dressing rooms,
Speaker 1: apparently started by a peanut roasting machine that had been
Speaker 1: stored there. The extensive damage to the adjoining hallway and
Speaker 1: former dressing room area is actually smoke and water damage
Speaker 1: incurred while fighting that fire, and when sprinkler systems were triggered,
Speaker 1: no one perished in this fire. All of his information
Speaker 1: was verified by the local fire department. They even came
Speaker 1: out to look at the damage and explained to me
Speaker 1: personally how it happened. It pays to be a stubborn
Speaker 1: researcher with a place with as much fraught history as
Speaker 1: the paramount, though it's hard to separate fact from myth,
Speaker 1: but I can tell you from personal experience that the
Speaker 1: place is very haunted. Up next, we have Kathy Kelly
Speaker 1: joining us. She is an Asbury Park paranormal investigator and
Speaker 1: historical researcher who was the one who brought the Paramount
Speaker 1: to my attention. She's been investigating there for years and
Speaker 1: has many stories to share, so that is coming up
Speaker 1: after the break. So I am currently joined by Kathy Kelly,
Speaker 1: who is a paranormal investigator, a historical researcher, and also
Speaker 1: the proprietor of Paranormal Books and Curiosities and Asbury Park,
Speaker 1: New Jersey, which I highly recommend a visit to. So
Speaker 1: thanks for joining us, Kathy, Oh, thanks so much for
Speaker 1: having me. Of course, Now you are the one who
Speaker 1: brought the Paramount to Kindred Spirits, like you had investigated
Speaker 1: it many times and you thought it would make a
Speaker 1: great case for us, which it did. It turned out
Speaker 1: to be one of the most interesting we've done, and
Speaker 1: lots of paranormal activity, which is not necessarily rare in theaters.
Speaker 1: I find theaters to be exceptionally haunted. So can you
Speaker 1: just kind of tell me, like how you started to
Speaker 1: investigate at the Paramount and how you found out about
Speaker 1: the haunts going on there. Sure, Well, the Paramount, obviously,
Speaker 1: you know this is one of these grand old theaters,
Speaker 1: and it's from the very early part of the twentieth century,
Speaker 1: and you know it's one of those places that as
Speaker 1: soon as you walk in, kind of the weight of
Speaker 1: history settles around you and you just you just feel something.
Speaker 1: And in two thousand and seven, I had been to
Speaker 1: the theater several times, but I was actually invited to
Speaker 1: come and investigate with a couple of local investigators, kind
Speaker 1: of casual local investigators, and they had been working with
Speaker 1: some of the guys that actually took care of the place.
Speaker 1: Um And in two thousand and seven, the Paramount was
Speaker 1: in a much more advanced state of disrepair than it
Speaker 1: is right now. So it had been it had never
Speaker 1: been completely vacant, but it had been quiet for a
Speaker 1: very very long time. And when we went in, I'm
Speaker 1: kind of a skeptical investigator, you know, And when we
Speaker 1: went in, I was tagging along in this investigation, and
Speaker 1: I had one of the most i would say profound
Speaker 1: experiences that I've ever had as an investigator. And it
Speaker 1: was probably the primary reason why I ended up opening
Speaker 1: Paranormal Books and Curiosities in Asbury Park was because of
Speaker 1: that building. That's so interesting. So now we have to
Speaker 1: know what was the experience. So we were up in
Speaker 1: the back hallway, which I'm sure you remember from your investigation.
Speaker 1: There's a point where you have kind of the modern
Speaker 1: section of the building, and then you have this section
Speaker 1: that looks like it was in a fire and it's
Speaker 1: burnt out, and there's not a whole lot in there
Speaker 1: that's modern, right, it's kind of a dark area. And
Speaker 1: there's this long hallway and this is where people had
Speaker 1: reported a lot of activity. And I was there, and
Speaker 1: I was right at this doorway where people had claimed
Speaker 1: to see a man standing and then he was kind
Speaker 1: of protective and kind of aggressive, you know, or aggressively
Speaker 1: defensive of that particular area. And I was standing there
Speaker 1: and I wasn't really feeling anything, but there was a
Speaker 1: light bulb on this little shelf that was right behind
Speaker 1: the doorway, and the doorway was open, and we were
Speaker 1: standing there, and the investigators that I was with were well,
Speaker 1: they were trying to do e v P. But they
Speaker 1: were provoking, not really negatively, but a little bit aggressively,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of like prove you're here and you
Speaker 1: know nobody believes you're here, that kind of a thing.
Speaker 1: And um, I would say the shelf was about six
Speaker 1: ft behind us, and there were probably about eight people,
Speaker 1: and it was four and four so so we had
Speaker 1: created this little alleyway kind of and the lead investigator
Speaker 1: was getting more and more aggressive. You could feel the
Speaker 1: kind of the energy in the space just getting tighter
Speaker 1: and tighter and tighter, almost like you're like something's going
Speaker 1: to happen. And all of a sudden, that light bulb
Speaker 1: came off of the shelf and just went about fifteen
Speaker 1: feet between us and ended up smashing on the wall
Speaker 1: on the other side of the eight of us. And
Speaker 1: for the life of me, I cannot figure out how
Speaker 1: that could happen in a non paranormal way. I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean, I just I just can't. And I just
Speaker 1: remember that moment being like, I don't know what caused it,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if it was us, it
Speaker 1: was our energy of the energy of the space, But
Speaker 1: I just remember at that moment saying, oh my god,
Speaker 1: there's something to this, you know, like as investigators, you're
Speaker 1: always looking for that ah ha moment. And I think
Speaker 1: that was one of the biggest aha moments for me.
Speaker 1: And there was one of the guys that worked in
Speaker 1: the building was there, Jason, you know Jason, he was there,
Speaker 1: and he looked at me and he smirked We had
Speaker 1: many conversations where I was like, it's probably that, but
Speaker 1: it could be this, and I was always very dismissive
Speaker 1: of it, and he just looked at me like, see
Speaker 1: and I and honestly I did. I saw that moment.
Speaker 1: It wasn't frightening, you know. I didn't feel like it
Speaker 1: was aggressive or like, but it was startling and it
Speaker 1: was dramatic. And I've investigated there many, many times and
Speaker 1: we've always gotten some interesting things, but never anything quite
Speaker 1: as dramatic as that. But that was enough for me
Speaker 1: to say, I don't necessarily know what's going on in
Speaker 1: this building, but something is. You know. It's funny because
Speaker 1: there's two types of people. There are the people who
Speaker 1: when that would happen, they would book it on out
Speaker 1: of there and never return. And then there are the
Speaker 1: people that are like, huh, my interest is piqud and
Speaker 1: I was curious. That was very strange. Had that light
Speaker 1: bulb just flew fifteen feet and smashed against the wall.
Speaker 1: I feel like there's something to this. Yeah, now, I
Speaker 1: love that, And I do find that many investigators have
Speaker 1: that kind of aha moment, and then I also feel
Speaker 1: like the location where they have them kind of becomes
Speaker 1: near and dear to them, you know. And I think
Speaker 1: that's really pertinent when you talk about the Paramount, because
Speaker 1: we've had many conversations about it over the years and
Speaker 1: just all of the wild things that happened there, and
Speaker 1: kind of like I touched on earlier, there's something about theaters,
Speaker 1: and obviously the history of the Paramount is wild, but
Speaker 1: there is even without that history. There are many theaters
Speaker 1: that seem to have their ghosts and and not necessarily
Speaker 1: connected to a death or a tragedy. Just I mean,
Speaker 1: I personally believe it has a lot to do with
Speaker 1: the energy of theaters and because there's not really much
Speaker 1: that happens in a theater that isn't high energy. That's
Speaker 1: the point of every performance is to reach the person
Speaker 1: in the very back of the room. That's my thought anyway,
Speaker 1: on why they're haunted, I totally agree. I also think
Speaker 1: that when people are singing and people are laughing, and
Speaker 1: people are doing these things, it's called raising your spirits
Speaker 1: for a reason, right, right, So it's like elevating. And
Speaker 1: maybe there's a physiological component to this, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: there is, with the release of endorphins and all of that,
Speaker 1: but I do think that there's a lightning of your
Speaker 1: spirit when you're in the theater and when people are
Speaker 1: performing and they're giving their all, but the audience is
Speaker 1: so receptive to that. And I always think of theaters
Speaker 1: as being like a battery where you have these high emotional,
Speaker 1: high energy moments and it just kind of affords whatever
Speaker 1: might be around a lot of energy to attach itself
Speaker 1: too and to use, you know. And there's a reason
Speaker 1: why they call it a ghost light. Um, there's lots
Speaker 1: of fun stories like that. But I agree. I've always
Speaker 1: found theaters to be for some reason. I think we're
Speaker 1: touching on probably why to be really active. And that's
Speaker 1: really cool. Now, do you if somebody is going to
Speaker 1: investigate the Paramount or visiting the Paramount, what would you
Speaker 1: say is the most prevalent type of activity they could
Speaker 1: encounter there? So to me, I think there's like the
Speaker 1: big things that people have heard about. Everybody always wants
Speaker 1: to go to that hallway because they've heard this story,
Speaker 1: But that's not where I've always felt the most experiences
Speaker 1: or where I think there's the most activity. I would
Speaker 1: say a real sense of presence, like to be very
Speaker 1: aware that you're not necessarily going to see something. You're
Speaker 1: not necessarily going to hear something, although you could in
Speaker 1: this particular place, you definitely could, but to be very
Speaker 1: aware of a sense of someone around you. I do
Speaker 1: think that if you're on that stage and you're looking
Speaker 1: out into the and you've been on that stage, it's
Speaker 1: it's a big old vaudevillian stage, like it is a
Speaker 1: really cool building. You can see movement. You really could
Speaker 1: see movement. And I know that everybody that works there
Speaker 1: talks about hearing things, but for me, it was always
Speaker 1: just the sense that there's someone around you. And I
Speaker 1: know for a lot of people that doesn't seem like enough,
Speaker 1: but for when you've been investigating long enough, you don't
Speaker 1: really care that much about what you capture on your equipment.
Speaker 1: It's really more about what you experience in this space.
Speaker 1: And to me, there's just always in differ in places
Speaker 1: you can really feel presences, right. I definitely got that
Speaker 1: vibe there, especially up on the stage. I remember someone
Speaker 1: telling us a wild experience there about how they literally
Speaker 1: saw like a shadow envelop like half the stage and
Speaker 1: then go up and over them, and that was something
Speaker 1: that I hadn't really heard before. And there seems to
Speaker 1: be a lot of shadow activity there that doesn't necessarily
Speaker 1: always look human in shape, Like we saw something in
Speaker 1: the seats at one point. I actually captured something on
Speaker 1: video up in the seats, like it looked like almost
Speaker 1: the size of a child, but there wasn't really like
Speaker 1: a humanoid shape to it. Have you seen these shadow figures? Yeah,
Speaker 1: In fact, I remember I've seen it a couple of times.
Speaker 1: And I had done an investigation one time with someone
Speaker 1: who was one of the larger fleer thermal cams, and
Speaker 1: we were up on the stage and we were just
Speaker 1: kind of doing a quick pass through of all of
Speaker 1: the seats, right, a quick kind of you know, let's
Speaker 1: just get a shot of everything. And there was one
Speaker 1: seat about halfway up that had dropped down and you
Speaker 1: could see a warm you know, that the seat was
Speaker 1: warmer than all of the others, as as if someone
Speaker 1: had just gotten up and left. That is something where
Speaker 1: you have to look at it and you say, let's
Speaker 1: see if there's like some kind of heating element underneath,
Speaker 1: let's say, but there wasn't. It just it really was
Speaker 1: one of those things where it's just that is just
Speaker 1: very strange, and it shouldn't have happened. But while we
Speaker 1: were standing there, I remember looking out at the entire
Speaker 1: space and it gets very dark in there, but there's
Speaker 1: always a little bit of light, right because they have
Speaker 1: those beautiful stained glass windows and stuff like that, there's
Speaker 1: always a little bit of ambient light that comes through
Speaker 1: and your eyes kind of acclimate to it. And I
Speaker 1: remember seeing what looked like a dark blob and it
Speaker 1: was up in the balcony and it looked like it
Speaker 1: ran up the stairs and out a door. But the
Speaker 1: only door up there actually goes to the projection booth,
Speaker 1: and it's not an easy thing. It's locked, and you
Speaker 1: go to the projec action booth and you have to
Speaker 1: go up a catwalk and it's it's not a simple thing.
Speaker 1: But we all ran up to follow it because we
Speaker 1: all saw it. And when we got up there, we
Speaker 1: realized that the door was locked and there was no
Speaker 1: place for this, whatever this was, to have gone um,
Speaker 1: And that's something that I physically saw myself. But I
Speaker 1: will tell you you know, I've been in Asby Park
Speaker 1: now for fifteen years, and the Paramount has hosted some
Speaker 1: pretty big bands, and I would say for like the
Speaker 1: first ten years I was in asmy park, there wasn't
Speaker 1: a whole lot to do, so they would all eventually
Speaker 1: get down to paranormal, you know, they're wandering through town.
Speaker 1: And I can tell you that I've gotten probably I
Speaker 1: don't know, two or three dozen reports from people who
Speaker 1: performed there and who were in the green room and
Speaker 1: who spend time they're doing rehearsals, who have come in
Speaker 1: and just said, this place is haunted, right, because this
Speaker 1: is what happened to me. And they invariably talk about
Speaker 1: shadow figures in the audience that they see when they're rehearsing.
Speaker 1: It's so funny because I think about that sometimes, about
Speaker 1: how a lot of us have touched on the idea
Speaker 1: that maybe spirits sometimes just kind of go about their
Speaker 1: business in the world and we might not even know
Speaker 1: that they are not a live person, you know, And
Speaker 1: it makes me wonder if sometimes that anonymous nature applies
Speaker 1: in a theater, especially where they can sit in kind
Speaker 1: of the seats amongst the living and just enjoy a show.
Speaker 1: And then sometimes they might just also want to watch
Speaker 1: a sound checker two, you know, and because they're not limited,
Speaker 1: they can come and go and they could be attracted
Speaker 1: to the energy that's being provided by the stage. One
Speaker 1: of the weird things that happens in The Paramount that
Speaker 1: I've gotten all the time from people is there seems
Speaker 1: to be something that likes to mess with one of
Speaker 1: the bathrooms. And the paramounts an old, old theater and
Speaker 1: it hasn't been completely renovated yet. So when you go
Speaker 1: into the ladies room on the first floor, it's a
Speaker 1: one bathroom bathroom, so there's always a huge line of women,
Speaker 1: you know, waiting to use it. And the lock is
Speaker 1: literally one of those you just turn it and it
Speaker 1: locks right. And people report being in the bathroom and
Speaker 1: having the lock jiggle and like as if someone is
Speaker 1: trying to get in, and then they open up the
Speaker 1: door and they walk out and they see this line
Speaker 1: of women and they're kind of like, hey, I was
Speaker 1: in there, and then women look at them like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we know. So no one had touched the lock, but
Speaker 1: from the inside there was this kind of interaction to
Speaker 1: kind of spook them. And I do think it's funny
Speaker 1: because you get this a lot in theaters too, and
Speaker 1: maybe it's water related, I don't really know, but you
Speaker 1: do get that kind of where people on the outside
Speaker 1: are not having that experience, but people on the inside are.
Speaker 1: And it's just one of those funny things that when
Speaker 1: you hear someone tell a story one time, you think, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's an interesting story. But when you hear the same
Speaker 1: story told by dozens of people over many years, and
Speaker 1: these people don't know each other, then you have to
Speaker 1: start saying, well, that's actually a real phenomena. And I
Speaker 1: don't know the cause of it, but I definitely know
Speaker 1: what's happening. And in the paramount, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: these little unique experiences that don't seem to be related
Speaker 1: to each other. There's the thing in the upstairs dressing room,
Speaker 1: there's the stuff that you see on the stage. There's
Speaker 1: the thing that's that happens in the projection, there's the
Speaker 1: thing that happens in the bathroom. And it all seems
Speaker 1: to be happening in the theater, but not related to
Speaker 1: each other at all. And that's so interesting to me,
Speaker 1: Like I always wonder that, like, why is it that
Speaker 1: in the afterlife a spirit chooses to jiggle a bathroom
Speaker 1: door lock up to scare poor ladies in the restroom,
Speaker 1: which which is when we feel like the most vulnerable
Speaker 1: you know, especially if you're wearing you know, like a
Speaker 1: jumpsuit and you have to take the whole thing off.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a line of women waiting, so you're
Speaker 1: you know, that is hysterical. But I mean, I guess
Speaker 1: maybe if and when I become a ghost, maybe I'll
Speaker 1: be a little prankster like that. Now that means said,
Speaker 1: have you had any e vps that have come out
Speaker 1: of the Paramount and if so, what have they been saying.
Speaker 1: You know, we've gotten a few e v p use
Speaker 1: over the course of the years. Some of them have
Speaker 1: been very strange and that they don't seem to be
Speaker 1: related to the Paramount at all, but they seem to
Speaker 1: be related more to kind of like casual life in
Speaker 1: Asbury Park. We got one where we got someone who
Speaker 1: said that their name was Josh, you know, in response
Speaker 1: to what's your name? My name is Josh. It actually
Speaker 1: didn't say my name is Josh, It said Josh. And
Speaker 1: then you know, what are you doing here? And I'm
Speaker 1: fishing and the Paramount is right on the beach and
Speaker 1: it's actually on where a jetty used to be. We
Speaker 1: also got we got music one time which was nobody
Speaker 1: heard and it was just kind of recorded. And then
Speaker 1: we did get something in the projection booth once it
Speaker 1: was just a name and the name was art, but
Speaker 1: again nothing that was directly related to the theater itself,
Speaker 1: because the theater it's not anyone's home, but it might
Speaker 1: be something that they were like transitioning through. I mean
Speaker 1: that makes sense because the activity, it's not always super
Speaker 1: interactive there. It does seem very energy based, and I
Speaker 1: guess residual and nature not to undermine what it is,
Speaker 1: because there is a lot of activity there, but it
Speaker 1: doesn't always seem like it's necessarily aware of you. And
Speaker 1: I think that sometimes we investigate places so many times,
Speaker 1: and I'm not saying this about the paramount per se,
Speaker 1: but sometimes we investigate places so many times that I
Speaker 1: do feel like spirits kind of detect that energy of
Speaker 1: like people calling out and reaching out, and so they
Speaker 1: might come in even though they're not necessarily affiliated with
Speaker 1: that location. And I think the same thing could be
Speaker 1: said for theaters, like that energy of a live audience
Speaker 1: of people milling about outside, and I think that might
Speaker 1: attract some sort of spiritual activity on its own. And
Speaker 1: given where this place is, I mean, it's not in
Speaker 1: the middle of a city. Really it's right on the ocean,
Speaker 1: and there is this kind of seasonal component to it too.
Speaker 1: I have investigated the Paramount when Asbury Park was an
Speaker 1: absolute ghost town, and I've investigated the Paramount, you know,
Speaker 1: when it's blown up and been like one of the
Speaker 1: larger resort towns on the East Coast, and it's different.
Speaker 1: It's different when there's more energy in the area. I'm
Speaker 1: a believer that location matters, and I'm a believer that
Speaker 1: the ocean is a living thing with a lot of energy,
Speaker 1: and I do think that there's different conductive properties to
Speaker 1: water and things like that, and I agree, I don't
Speaker 1: necessarily think that everything that people ascribe what happens in
Speaker 1: the Paramount to certain historical events, and maybe they're right.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know that we have enough
Speaker 1: evidence to actually say that. But it's one of those
Speaker 1: places where you stand there, you feel the weight of
Speaker 1: its history, and if you stand there long enough, you're
Speaker 1: going to see something. I will say, I think most
Speaker 1: of what happens in the Paramount is residual, but we
Speaker 1: definitely have seen reactive things as well. I can't think
Speaker 1: of a theater of that size that is low hated,
Speaker 1: so close to an ocean, you can literally there's an
Speaker 1: area on the other side of the Paramount, which is
Speaker 1: Convention Hall, but they're attached and they're essentially the same
Speaker 1: building that they actually called the Overlook because it looks
Speaker 1: a little bit like something from the Shining, but also
Speaker 1: because it literally hangs over the ocean. In Hurricane Sandy,
Speaker 1: there was ocean water in the paramount, that's how close
Speaker 1: the ocean is to it. And it is a really
Speaker 1: unique space given its proximity to the ocean and kind
Speaker 1: of the shifting sands that it's on, and interesting historical
Speaker 1: things have definitely happened there. Certainly tragedies have happened in
Speaker 1: the area, and you kind of wonder if maybe people
Speaker 1: knowing the stories, believing the stories don't in some way
Speaker 1: impact kind of the experiences that people have there. Oh,
Speaker 1: I definitely think that happens. I find Asbury Park so
Speaker 1: interesting because the first time I went there, we were
Speaker 1: filming an episode of Ghost Hunters at a local I
Speaker 1: think it's like a museum or something. And I can't
Speaker 1: remember exactly how many years go that was, but probably
Speaker 1: close to fifteen years ago, and it was a different
Speaker 1: town than when we recently went back. It has completely
Speaker 1: come back like it's such a dynamic and beautiful place,
Speaker 1: and I mean, people really rallied to make that happen.
Speaker 1: It's a really wonderful place to visit. The architecture and
Speaker 1: kind of the Art deco nature of all the buildings
Speaker 1: in town is just beautiful, and there's not a lot
Speaker 1: of places that can say that. And so I do
Speaker 1: think it's so interesting that the theater's energy has kind
Speaker 1: of changed with the vibe of the town. I love
Speaker 1: to hear that so and you know, and I think
Speaker 1: that you play a big part in that too. You
Speaker 1: are such a lover of the town and I think
Speaker 1: you should be commended on some of the work you've
Speaker 1: done there very much. So, Okay, how can people find
Speaker 1: Kathy Kelly? Obviously they should go to your store, but
Speaker 1: then you also do some events and things. And Adam
Speaker 1: and I love you, We love the research you do,
Speaker 1: we love how through you are, We love you know,
Speaker 1: having you be involved in the case on Kindred when
Speaker 1: we did the paramount. So shout yourself out and thank you,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for or even thinking of me. But
Speaker 1: I'm on Instagram as at the Paranormal Museum. We're on
Speaker 1: Facebook as Paranormal New Jersey. Our website is Paranormal Books
Speaker 1: and j dot com and we are open to the
Speaker 1: public and we do lots of different events and we've
Speaker 1: been around for fifteen years, so we're kind of a
Speaker 1: mainstay in Asbury Park. Certainly, if you've ever visit Asbrey
Speaker 1: Park and you ask anybody about paranormal, they'll know where
Speaker 1: we are. Yeah, I mean, I have to say, I
Speaker 1: think yours was the first Crampus Parade I ever attended,
Speaker 1: or Crampus um. That was really one of the reading
Speaker 1: on the Naughty List, the reading of the Naughty List,
Speaker 1: and it was so so locals can actually I think
Speaker 1: they could like actually put in their naughty things they
Speaker 1: did or something, and then it was amazing. That was
Speaker 1: so much fun. So well, I really enjoyed that. I
Speaker 1: love talking to you as always. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for joining and filling us in on the activity at
Speaker 1: the Paramount Theater. Thank you so much for having me,
Speaker 1: and he was great talking to I've investigated many a
Speaker 1: theater that didn't seem to have much tragedy attached to them,
Speaker 1: but remained ridiculously Haunted. As Kathy and I discussed, I
Speaker 1: really do theorize it has to do with the energy
Speaker 1: of a performance and of an audience, and the emotion
Speaker 1: and passion of artists and staff. But not many can
Speaker 1: claim a tragedy like the Paramount, and well, it's hard
Speaker 1: to imagine that not having to do with the haunting
Speaker 1: of the Paramount. I'm not sure it does. Regardless of
Speaker 1: my thoughts, the theater remains one very spiritual place. Not
Speaker 1: to mention, it's a gorgeous example of the grand theaters
Speaker 1: of yesterday. I highly recommend a visit. Also, you didn't
Speaker 1: hear it from me, but there's some pretty incredible ice
Speaker 1: cream available right outside of it on the boardwalk. I'm
Speaker 1: Amy Brunei and this was Haunted Road. Haunted Road is
Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Radio and Grimm and Mild from
Speaker 1: Aaron Mankey. Haunted Road is hosted and written by me
Speaker 1: Amy Bruney additional research by Taylor Haggerdorn. The show is
Speaker 1: edited and produced by rema El Kali and supervising producer
Speaker 1: Josh Thing and executive producers Aaron Mankey, Alex Williams, and
Speaker 1: Matt Frederick. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit
Speaker 1: the I heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.