Speaker 1: Pushkin like her, Moniker suggests Leticia Tamco, who records under
Speaker 1: the name Vagabond, is trying to find a musical place
Speaker 1: to call her own. When Vagabond was thirteen, she and
Speaker 1: her family moved from Cameroon in West Africa to Harlem.
Speaker 1: She learned English in part by watching reruns of The
Speaker 1: Fresh Prince of bel Air and identified with the outsider
Speaker 1: sentiment heard and the emo and pop punk on the
Speaker 1: radio and TV in their early two thousands. Like many
Speaker 1: children of immigrants, Vagabond was encouraged by her parents to
Speaker 1: become something practical, like an engineer, but by seventeen she
Speaker 1: was writing songs and teaching herself to play guitar, and
Speaker 1: would sneak out at night to play shows at DIY
Speaker 1: punk spaces in Brooklyn, and only a few years later
Speaker 1: was recording and putting out songs. She's been completely immersed
Speaker 1: in music ever since. Her newest release, the self titled Vagabond,
Speaker 1: has been praised by critics at The New Yorker and Pitchfork.
Speaker 1: She's also toured with Courtney Barnett, Angel Olsen, and Brittany Howard.
Speaker 1: I did this interview recently in La with My Right
Speaker 1: hand producer Leah Rose, who's been working on Broken Records
Speaker 1: since the beginning of the year. She's a DJ music
Speaker 1: journalist who spent almost a decade as an editor at
Speaker 1: Double Xcel. When Lee and I sat down with Vagabond
Speaker 1: in La she was in the throes of writing songs
Speaker 1: for her third album and talked to us about some
Speaker 1: of the writer's blocks she was experiencing. Plus, she talked
Speaker 1: about her early experiences with music and Cameroon and why
Speaker 1: she sometimes wants to give it all up to write
Speaker 1: code instead. This is Broken Record liner notes for the
Speaker 1: digital Age. I'm justin Richmondon. Just a quick note here.
Speaker 1: You can listen to all of the music mentioned in
Speaker 1: this episode on our playlist, which you can find a
Speaker 1: link to in the show notes for licensing reasons, each
Speaker 1: time a song it's referenced in this episode, you'll hear
Speaker 1: this sound effect. All right, enjoyed the episode. Here's Leah
Speaker 1: Rose and myself in conversation with Vagabond. What type of
Speaker 1: music do you remember playing in your house when you
Speaker 1: were growing up. We played a lot of Michael Jackson.
Speaker 1: My parents were obsessed with Michael Jackson, and so was
Speaker 1: everyone you know where we lived, which was in Yellow
Speaker 1: and Day at the time, like everyone all over the
Speaker 1: world was obsessed with Michael Jackson, so we listened to
Speaker 1: a lot of him, and I would say that that's
Speaker 1: the most like contemporary like Western music that we listened to.
Speaker 1: We did listen to a lot of more like traditional
Speaker 1: West African music. Mani Diebungo was a huge one, like
Speaker 1: he's so beloved in our in our like all over
Speaker 1: but really like he's a star in our country. We
Speaker 1: listened to a lot of that. But most of the
Speaker 1: music that I listened to is like gospel music. My
Speaker 1: grandmother's a choir director, so a lot of the my like,
Speaker 1: my relationship to music was like at church, and so
Speaker 1: we'd listen to a lot of that and a lot
Speaker 1: of like passed down like traditional folk stuff that my
Speaker 1: grandmother would sing around. And then what was the first
Speaker 1: time that you really remember connecting to music. I don't
Speaker 1: really know how to tell kids ages, so I don't
Speaker 1: even know how old I was. But there there's this
Speaker 1: like photo of me that exists in my parents' house.
Speaker 1: That's me in the middle of like a group of
Speaker 1: maybe like fifteen adult women that were all my mom's
Speaker 1: friends and they would get together every Sunday. They would say,
Speaker 1: they would wear the same like traditional like African dresses
Speaker 1: and they would just sing and play music and I
Speaker 1: would get in this circle. So this photo is me
Speaker 1: getting in the circle and just like taking my go
Speaker 1: at it. I mean the photo helped me. Remember. I
Speaker 1: don't actually like remember, but I was so young that
Speaker 1: I think that's the first time that I really had
Speaker 1: a connection with music. Was it a church thing or
Speaker 1: what was the group about it? It It was like, you
Speaker 1: know in French you call it like a reunion, um,
Speaker 1: but I don't really know. It was almost like the
Speaker 1: only thing I could equit it to is like sorority,
Speaker 1: but they are all They were all like women with kids,
Speaker 1: you know, so it was more of like a like
Speaker 1: a community thing. And maybe they all went to church.
Speaker 1: I have no idea. How did all the kids come
Speaker 1: together too with that? No, no, it was only the parents, Yeah,
Speaker 1: kids at home. But since my mom was hosting, I
Speaker 1: was I was like able to like peek into into
Speaker 1: their world. And you were singing and dancing. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: which is wild. So how do you think about that now?
Speaker 1: Seeing that photo? Are you like, I'm destined to be performing. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean my mom brought it up to me and
Speaker 1: was like, you know because she she, like everyone was
Speaker 1: a skeptic, including myself, Like what like, I like, what
Speaker 1: is like that's not a thing? Um? So yeah, like
Speaker 1: what does that mean? Even though when I think about it,
Speaker 1: that's that's what they were doing. They just weren't calling
Speaker 1: it that. Like there was harmonies going on, there were
Speaker 1: there were like drums going on, but they never called
Speaker 1: it playing music. They never called it like we are musicians.
Speaker 1: They were just like doing you know, like harmonizing is
Speaker 1: not something that everybody's doing in their household, you know,
Speaker 1: but no one really saw it as that. So I
Speaker 1: think my mom kind of connected the dots in the
Speaker 1: last like year, Like I think this has been something
Speaker 1: you've been interested in a long time. Is anybody else
Speaker 1: in your family music all at all? Not that I
Speaker 1: know of, but they must be like was your dad
Speaker 1: doing like was your dad singing and stuff around the house?
Speaker 1: Also no, my but my dad has bragged about like
Speaker 1: singing on some jazz albums that coincidentally no one knows
Speaker 1: the name too. So I don't know. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: know if it actually happened or if he was like
Speaker 1: I used to dabble. I don't know, but my dad
Speaker 1: was a dancer when he was younger. Um, but they
Speaker 1: don't really like they rarely talk about that, you know,
Speaker 1: they rarely bring that up as like anything artistic. So
Speaker 1: to me, I have to kind of dig really hard
Speaker 1: in my memory to kind of to like to see
Speaker 1: the threads of music because it's not a thing that
Speaker 1: they ever really took on as a as an identity. Yes,
Speaker 1: are they musical people now or not so much? No,
Speaker 1: they like music, but not not really. Like my mom
Speaker 1: thinks that I make country music. So that's kind of
Speaker 1: like like like that's that's that's where we're at, Like
Speaker 1: why country because I play guitar? Oh, that's it. That's
Speaker 1: just she's like guitar country Okay, So you know, and
Speaker 1: that's kind of cool for me that they have no
Speaker 1: idea and they don't you know, they don't like go
Speaker 1: to shows on their own or any or buy albums
Speaker 1: or anything. How did it become the thing for you then?
Speaker 1: I mean I've always been I've always been pretty obsessed
Speaker 1: with it. I used to be like eleven, twelve years old.
Speaker 1: I used to be online like looking up like studios
Speaker 1: and calling people like and my mom was like, you
Speaker 1: need to stop calling strangers, but I would like call studios.
Speaker 1: I would call whoever's phone number I can find. That
Speaker 1: was like like attached to a music thing and be like,
Speaker 1: I want to play music, how do I submit a demo?
Speaker 1: Like just being weird. So I've just kind of been
Speaker 1: like always interested, but no one around me had accessor
Speaker 1: or like the knowledge to guide me in any direction
Speaker 1: or to like even know what to tell me. You know,
Speaker 1: did you ever meet like a musical mentor at any point,
Speaker 1: or someone who you knew was a musician and just
Speaker 1: sort of like just got as much knowledge as you
Speaker 1: could out of that person. No, I've I literally did
Speaker 1: not have anyone that I can talk to about this
Speaker 1: stuff until I started doing it. Like there was no
Speaker 1: one around me. You know, I'm a kid, so like
Speaker 1: everywhere I'm around there is everywhere my parents want me
Speaker 1: to be around, And so I wasn't I wasn't really
Speaker 1: around anyone who played music or who listened to music
Speaker 1: in a way. Just this was like so not a
Speaker 1: part of my life. What was your exposure to live
Speaker 1: music when you were a kid? Um? I mean apart
Speaker 1: from church. There there was nothing. It was church and
Speaker 1: that was it. I used to love going to church.
Speaker 1: When when we moved to the US, like my mom
Speaker 1: started taking us to a church in Harlem Um called
Speaker 1: Abyssinian Church, and I used to I mean, that is
Speaker 1: my favorite place to see a show to this day.
Speaker 1: Like that choir made me feel like music is the
Speaker 1: single greatest thing in the world. And I would go
Speaker 1: to church like really like religiously no point intended um
Speaker 1: to see that choir and to see to see them,
Speaker 1: and that church is so important in my life. Like
Speaker 1: that's where I like found my scholarship to go to
Speaker 1: engineering school. That's where like that church was kind of
Speaker 1: like I was. I was a very much like a
Speaker 1: viewer of the church. Like I wasn't like a part
Speaker 1: of it in any way. I wasn't. I just like
Speaker 1: went and I sat in the back and I just
Speaker 1: like listened and um, So that is my relationship to
Speaker 1: live music. And until I hadn't seen a live show
Speaker 1: other than going to church and seeing choirs until I
Speaker 1: played a live show. So and then when you moved
Speaker 1: to the US and you went to that church, how
Speaker 1: is the service different than the services you were used to.
Speaker 1: It wasn't that different. Actually, you know, it was a
Speaker 1: Abyssinian's a Baptist church, so it's you know, mostly black people,
Speaker 1: and it's like the music is so like alive and
Speaker 1: it's so rich, and it's so I went to Catholic
Speaker 1: school for high school, so like I know what Catholic,
Speaker 1: I know what Mass is like, and I know what
Speaker 1: like a Baptist church is like. And I know what
Speaker 1: a church in Cameroon is like. And I would say
Speaker 1: that the church I went to in Cameroon is more
Speaker 1: similar to a Baptist church than it is to a
Speaker 1: Catholic church. You know, you get up, you like are interacting,
Speaker 1: You're like letting it take you. Well, I's curious because
Speaker 1: I was wondering if you know, if you started because
Speaker 1: you got a guitar, you're sort of get interested in music,
Speaker 1: playing music and you got a guitar. Well, I guess
Speaker 1: not till seventeen, but I mean we're writing songs in
Speaker 1: French early on, or I was writing already in English
Speaker 1: because I was listening to music in English. So I
Speaker 1: was listening to like, um, whatever was on the radio
Speaker 1: at that time. Um. When I first started kind of
Speaker 1: like wanting to write music. It was like pop punk
Speaker 1: on the radio and like like alternative like Levine, not
Speaker 1: even Avril Levine, um Blink one eighty two, but but
Speaker 1: even like like less of the stuff that has even
Speaker 1: held up no shade to these bands, but like like
Speaker 1: may Day Parade, like yeah, that sounds very like Warped
Speaker 1: Tour kind of bands. I was obsessed and I was
Speaker 1: like so um, I was like really into All Time
Speaker 1: Low and like Forever the Sickest Kids. I don't know,
Speaker 1: but I was very into. I was very into those bands.
Speaker 1: Um do you remember? Can you put yourself back into
Speaker 1: that mindset? What was it about that particular kind of
Speaker 1: music that you loved? It was the screaming, like it
Speaker 1: was the It was like, you know, you're like a
Speaker 1: teenager and you're angry, and no one had told me
Speaker 1: about like Rage against the Machine. Ione told me that
Speaker 1: there was like cool cool shit out there like mentor Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, no one told me this stuff was happening.
Speaker 1: So I was listening to the to the stuff that
Speaker 1: was closest to that, but on the radio, because that's
Speaker 1: what I had access to. Like when you don't know
Speaker 1: anyone who's going to tell you about the like the
Speaker 1: record store or like um or rage or system of
Speaker 1: a Down or whatever. Like before anyone could tell me
Speaker 1: about that, Like there was All Time Alow on the radio,
Speaker 1: there was Avril Levine on the There's Fiefie Dobson who
Speaker 1: kind of changed my life. Who's that? Who was? Like
Speaker 1: she was like the black woman who was on MTV
Speaker 1: like like playing guitar and like singing that kind of music.
Speaker 1: And there was really no I was really not seeing
Speaker 1: any black girls or any black women doing that kind
Speaker 1: of music like on TRL or on MTV or and
Speaker 1: she she was that and so like that's kind of
Speaker 1: what I that was like the first time that I
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, music is so cool. I
Speaker 1: want to play guitar. So did you start dressing differently
Speaker 1: at that point? Um? Yeah, I mean I definitely had
Speaker 1: like the swoop over bangs and like the dark eye makeup. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like you know I did that for sure. It's fine.
Speaker 1: I survived. I had I had a phase. Man, it's
Speaker 1: so funny. Yeah, when was the first time you actually
Speaker 1: went to a live show? Uh? The first time I
Speaker 1: went to a live show, I guess technically my first
Speaker 1: one was the first show that I played, which was
Speaker 1: in twenty fourteen at the Silent Barn in Brooklyn, New York.
Speaker 1: I knew that the Silent Barn was a place that
Speaker 1: had like like community built in and that was the
Speaker 1: place that I can start learning how to play. And
Speaker 1: so I was like looking at their calendar and I
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, Like, I wonder if I can hit
Speaker 1: up the bands instead of hitting up Silent Barn because
Speaker 1: they don't know who I am, Like, I'm not, I'm
Speaker 1: not like anything or anyone. So I'm going to hit
Speaker 1: up the bands and send them my song. So that's
Speaker 1: what I did. I hit up the the band out
Speaker 1: of Massachusetts and I said, Hey, I just put out
Speaker 1: this song. Can I open the show? And they were
Speaker 1: like yeah, whatever, And had you been to the venue before? No? No, no,
Speaker 1: how terrified? How terrified? I'm scared? Just scaring that story. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I'm more afraid now of things
Speaker 1: than I was back then. I was just like, what
Speaker 1: do I You know, I had written maybe like a
Speaker 1: handful of songs by then, and I knew that I
Speaker 1: was practicing them. So I was just going to do
Speaker 1: what I did to practice. I don't know I just
Speaker 1: did it. Did it feel different? Because I mean, I
Speaker 1: imagine at home, you weren't practicing with like a microphone, right,
Speaker 1: that must have felt really different when you get up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's it was very different. It was very jarring. Um,
Speaker 1: but I mostly wanted to be good enough that the
Speaker 1: other musicians thought that I was good enough. Like that's
Speaker 1: who want to impress them? Yeah, that's like kind of
Speaker 1: what the the objective was. Like, I wasn't even thinking
Speaker 1: that other people would be listening. I'm just like, but
Speaker 1: if the other people think that I am doing something
Speaker 1: that like maybe i'm doing like maybe you'll fit in
Speaker 1: or you're one of them, yeah, or like or like
Speaker 1: or I'm on the right path or like this makes
Speaker 1: sense that I'm here. Like maybe if if no one
Speaker 1: could tell that I've never done this before, I think
Speaker 1: I'll be Okay. You know, did you feel powerful? I did?
Speaker 1: I did. Yeah, it's weird. It's it was a it
Speaker 1: was a weird show. But one thing I have never
Speaker 1: been was afraid. And that includes being afraid of embarrassing myself,
Speaker 1: Like that includes being afraid of like being bad or
Speaker 1: because at that point I had I had like I
Speaker 1: had given up a lot to even be there, So
Speaker 1: I was like, who in the same I wanted to
Speaker 1: impress these people, but I also didn't care because I
Speaker 1: had to way different life than everybody else. So I
Speaker 1: was just very like I meet some validation that like
Speaker 1: I could do this, but I also am going to
Speaker 1: do it regardless, if that makes sense. Yeah, so have
Speaker 1: you given up maybe a path in life that you
Speaker 1: thought you were going to take At that point, you
Speaker 1: had already made up your mind that this is what
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do. Yeah, I had made up my mind
Speaker 1: to myself. I hadn't to hold my parents that had
Speaker 1: I hadn't told anybody else in my life that because
Speaker 1: I understood that it would sound crazy. Like, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm an engineering student. That is clearly a path that
Speaker 1: is pretty much guaranteed. Like you know, they say that
Speaker 1: you don't know if you get out of school and
Speaker 1: you have a job. But like in technology and like engineering,
Speaker 1: you have a job, like you can you can go
Speaker 1: get a job that pays you like seventy thousand dollars
Speaker 1: when you're twenty two, and you could be all right,
Speaker 1: you're very stable. It's very stable, and it sounds really good. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's very impressive. Yeah, and your parents want to tell
Speaker 1: everybody that you can what you're doing. Yeah, especially I
Speaker 1: mean especially you know parents who came here and work
Speaker 1: to give you an education exactly right, exactly. So I
Speaker 1: was like already knew that I would be doing that,
Speaker 1: but I was like, let me make sure I have
Speaker 1: something to show before I blow my whole life. And
Speaker 1: then who were you collaborating with back then? Was there
Speaker 1: anyone who you would sort of like play stuff for
Speaker 1: get feedback from? Yeah, I had very early on before
Speaker 1: Infinite World, I had a friend who was also an
Speaker 1: engineering student, and he had like an emo emo band,
Speaker 1: and he was the only one that was around me
Speaker 1: that like played guitar and like played loudly and like
Speaker 1: screamed and stuff, and so I would I would play
Speaker 1: him early on my songs and in the very very
Speaker 1: early iterations, like that first show, he played it with
Speaker 1: me um, and I wouldn't really get feedback. I wasn't
Speaker 1: really interested in because I didn't really even know. I
Speaker 1: didn't want. I've been really adamant about people shaping me
Speaker 1: and like into early of a stage. There were so
Speaker 1: many things that I that that I knew that I
Speaker 1: would become better at that, like only I have insight
Speaker 1: on the vision. Like so, so there was like a
Speaker 1: lot if the notes were based on like my current self.
Speaker 1: I didn't really I knew that I was so new
Speaker 1: to it that there was bound to be progressed. So
Speaker 1: and what songs were you playing then? Um? I was
Speaker 1: playing just a lot of songs ended up on my
Speaker 1: first album. A lot of the songs from Infinite Worlds
Speaker 1: are from like twenty fourteen. Wow, um, they're some of
Speaker 1: the Some of them are the first songs that I've written,
Speaker 1: songs like Cold Department, Um, Sharks aka them the Embers,
Speaker 1: And then there are a few that that, um we're
Speaker 1: on the EP before Infinite Worlds that I was playing too.
Speaker 1: Would you mind playing Sharks? Would you mind playing the Embers? Oh? Sure, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was waiting for that next. Sorry, sorry I haven't
Speaker 1: I haven't practiced them in a long time. It sounds
Speaker 1: so good. But that's that's that. We'll be back with
Speaker 1: our conversation with Vagabond. After a quick break, we're back
Speaker 1: with more from Vagabond. Just incredible. That's so early on
Speaker 1: that you know, that's so early on you had a vision. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that you were so confident. Yeah, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it seems like you're still sort of have that same philosophy.
Speaker 1: With the new album, you did pretty much everything completely
Speaker 1: on your own, made almost every single instrument, produced every song.
Speaker 1: Now it seems like that was very intentional. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: would say everything that I do is intentional, maybe even
Speaker 1: sometimes to a fault. Like I just want to be
Speaker 1: really good, and I want to be respected and and
Speaker 1: I have this like urge to earn it, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like like I don't want to just
Speaker 1: like put my name on something. I want to like
Speaker 1: have it be like real. I want to know that
Speaker 1: I could produce a record. But at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, like I'm really glad that I did that.
Speaker 1: I'm really glad that I know how to do that,
Speaker 1: and that whatever whatever this album means now or later,
Speaker 1: like I know that it's important for like my trajectory
Speaker 1: as as a musician. Would you ever consider working with
Speaker 1: a producer? Do you do you like do you like
Speaker 1: being your own producer and kind of the pressure that
Speaker 1: comes with that also, I mean I like it, but
Speaker 1: I don't know if I could do this shit again.
Speaker 1: Like I I think that you know, this last self
Speaker 1: titled record is my second album, and it's not just
Speaker 1: like my second album on a label. It's not just
Speaker 1: like my second album as Vagabond. It's my second album period.
Speaker 1: Like it's the second body of work I've made, and
Speaker 1: so it's still really early on for me, and I
Speaker 1: still want it to be like, like to know what
Speaker 1: I was doing, even if I have access to hire anybody, like,
Speaker 1: I want to have that knowledge and then I can
Speaker 1: kind of like open it up a little bit. So
Speaker 1: now I feel like I'm in a stage where I
Speaker 1: can like go as far as like co producing. How
Speaker 1: do you think about the second one? I mean, it's
Speaker 1: it's like your newest record, but it's been it's been
Speaker 1: a couple of years and you're writing the new one now,
Speaker 1: so it kind of it's behind you in a way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a little bit more people discovering it still, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I'm like I honestly, I go in and
Speaker 1: out if I'm like going to be all the way
Speaker 1: honest sometimes I'm like I used to when it first
Speaker 1: came out, I was like I killed that shit. That
Speaker 1: was so good, And now I'm kind of like did
Speaker 1: I Like, I don't know, thank you, it is really good.
Speaker 1: I just I think it's weird. I think I'm still
Speaker 1: kind of coming to terms with doing something that was
Speaker 1: that different from from what I was doing before. And
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if it's I think it's part of
Speaker 1: a larger story and it's kind of like dot dot dot,
Speaker 1: like it's part of a larger thing which will be
Speaker 1: my career, um, but like on its own. So I'm
Speaker 1: pretty confused about it. You know, do you feel like
Speaker 1: you want to go back to the kind of more
Speaker 1: the sounds of the first one or um continue sort
Speaker 1: of is there going to be like a when the
Speaker 1: third one comes it will be like, oh wow, there
Speaker 1: is a sort of yea. Honestly, I feel like the
Speaker 1: third one is where I need to like pick a
Speaker 1: lane essentially, which may not be true, but I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna be real, like this is what's going on in
Speaker 1: my head about like, Okay, I made an indie rock record,
Speaker 1: and I made a record that's not that, and now
Speaker 1: I don't really know. I'm now trying not to think
Speaker 1: about what kind of a record I'm making. I'm just
Speaker 1: I just want to write songs and I just want
Speaker 1: to like put those songs on an album, So I'm
Speaker 1: just kind of like, I'm a little confused. Do you
Speaker 1: think that's more for you so you can classify yourself. No,
Speaker 1: it's fully because like outside sources are in my head,
Speaker 1: like not like or when people write about your music. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like it's like I don't really I don't really
Speaker 1: read my press unless it's like the New Yorker, thank
Speaker 1: you very much, but but like im what a black
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm still confused. But the New Yorker has
Speaker 1: approved um. But I think that I get pretty confused
Speaker 1: once it goes out there and it's like seen in
Speaker 1: a certain way, and I'm like what wait. I was
Speaker 1: looking at the comments on YouTube for the water Me
Speaker 1: Down video. Lord are they bad? They are so great? Okay,
Speaker 1: it's like overwhelmingly positive. Okay, good, you should read them
Speaker 1: if you're ever feeling that I'm scared. I can't anything negative.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, it is so encouraging as it
Speaker 1: goes down in the YouTube comments, people are vicious, but
Speaker 1: it's the only I will say. The times where I
Speaker 1: feel the most sure of what I've made is when
Speaker 1: I'm performing, because that is the only time that I'm
Speaker 1: interacting with people who are um, they don't even have
Speaker 1: to say anything to me, but just energetically they're letting
Speaker 1: me know where in this together. And I don't feel
Speaker 1: like I just have like press and like numbers in
Speaker 1: my inbox and like, you know, like but when I'm
Speaker 1: sitting at home writing, like that's my thread to what
Speaker 1: is going on with my records. So it's like it's
Speaker 1: it's very different when I'm on tour and I'm like
Speaker 1: going to I'm like going to places and seeing people
Speaker 1: and be like holy crap, like what And that's when
Speaker 1: it feels like, Okay, we're all right. Yeah. What does
Speaker 1: it feel like to when you're performing life to look
Speaker 1: down and have people just like looking at you with
Speaker 1: love in their eyes? Uh? I don't know. It's pretty embarrassing.
Speaker 1: I have this thing where if I open my eyes
Speaker 1: for too long while performing, I will like sing a
Speaker 1: bad note like like it gets too real, Like it
Speaker 1: gets so like, so I have to like look when
Speaker 1: my eyes are open, I have to look right past everybody.
Speaker 1: So you know, I don't I don't spend much time
Speaker 1: at the merch table anymore, but that's really where I
Speaker 1: got to talk to people and that's where I got
Speaker 1: to like hang out with people in a way that
Speaker 1: was like, you know, we're on the same level because
Speaker 1: I think, I don't know, I don't know if I'm
Speaker 1: supposed to be into the whole, Like I'm more elevated
Speaker 1: than you think. But it kind of freaks me out
Speaker 1: a little bit. So my favorite line on the last
Speaker 1: album from every Woman is all the women I meet
Speaker 1: are tired? Where did that come from? Um? It's like
Speaker 1: loosely referencing a poem by Naira Wahid And it's in
Speaker 1: this book called Njema that I really enjoyed, And it's
Speaker 1: just a it's just a a like a line that
Speaker 1: I think like unites a lot of people. It's it's
Speaker 1: one that a lot of people can understand. So do
Speaker 1: you want to play a little bit of that, Let's
Speaker 1: do it. We'll be back with more from Vagabond after
Speaker 1: the break. We're back with the rest of our interview
Speaker 1: with Vagabond. What part of your music are you enjoying
Speaker 1: the most so far? Is it the songwriting, between the songwriting,
Speaker 1: the recording, the performing. Right now, I'm enjoying I think
Speaker 1: performing is number one, and then recording has become number two.
Speaker 1: Songwriting is just kicking my ass lately. But if you
Speaker 1: asked me like last year, I would have said I
Speaker 1: enjoy songwriting. But that's I'm I'm writing now, So I'm
Speaker 1: that's like where I'm like emotionally like getting a beating
Speaker 1: all the time. So is it hard because you're running
Speaker 1: out of things to talk about or you can't find
Speaker 1: ways to express things? No, I it's hard because more
Speaker 1: people are watching, so the pressure is on. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I'm trying, and I'm like I had this thought. I
Speaker 1: was like, what if I just like got a job
Speaker 1: somewhere and I didn't think about music all the time.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I was like, what if I
Speaker 1: just like, what if I just like was a coder
Speaker 1: like and then just it's like but it's almost like
Speaker 1: self protect. It's like I want to go back to
Speaker 1: the time and again. This is so I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm in therapy right now. This is not this is
Speaker 1: not a real thing. This is me freaking out. Like
Speaker 1: this is me like writing an album and freaking out
Speaker 1: like that's when we're talking. But it's I want to
Speaker 1: like not think about music twenty four seven to a
Speaker 1: point where it's like insane, you know. Yeah, like maybe
Speaker 1: I'll go volunteer somewhere and like do that for like
Speaker 1: four days a week so that something else is occupying
Speaker 1: my time besides me and my music, because you just
Speaker 1: don't want you don't want music to feel like work. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't want it to feel like it's the only
Speaker 1: thing that I know how to do and it's the
Speaker 1: only place that I hold my like all my eggs,
Speaker 1: you know. I want to like yeah, yeah, that that
Speaker 1: seems a little dangerous, and so I want to like
Speaker 1: I want to, Yeah, I think I'm just gonna volunteer somewhere,
Speaker 1: like yeah, like play with Kenny, yeah, like like yeah,
Speaker 1: like please like right now, there are so many things
Speaker 1: that I could do with my time instead of sitting
Speaker 1: there and being like, oh, like I never feel like,
Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't matter what you do, so don't stop,
Speaker 1: like that will matter. No, I don't plan to do.
Speaker 1: What do you feel naturally drawn sort of like writing
Speaker 1: about mostly mostly it's sad, and I think that's because
Speaker 1: of how I like started writing songs, and like, you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of people write from that space, a lot
Speaker 1: of people, but like I can't write a song about
Speaker 1: I haven't been able to write a song about being
Speaker 1: happy or like so happy I had to write a
Speaker 1: song Like it's usually like so mad or so sad
Speaker 1: that I have to write a song. Um, And that's
Speaker 1: just kind of like what my first songs were about
Speaker 1: was like all like grappling all this stuff that was confusing.
Speaker 1: So I think that that's like currently and up until now,
Speaker 1: has been where where I draw the most like emotion from.
Speaker 1: I think songs about hardship, suffering, heartbreak might be more
Speaker 1: interesting than happy songs hot take. Yeah, no, I mean
Speaker 1: I I'm biased, but you know I'm away. I'm always
Speaker 1: drawn to like super sad songs. Yeah, I mean me too, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I have, I have been in the past, Like those
Speaker 1: are the songs that I like. And it's weird because
Speaker 1: I also listened to a lot of pop music that
Speaker 1: I'm that is not like devastating, you know. Um, But
Speaker 1: I think because I've just like, oh, like I had
Speaker 1: a very sad time like when I was a teenager.
Speaker 1: That that's you know when we're talking about like listening
Speaker 1: to pop punk and yeah, exactly an emo and like
Speaker 1: all that stuff like that's it's not so much that
Speaker 1: I related to the content of their lyrics, but it
Speaker 1: was like the emotion um so, like even if it's
Speaker 1: a happy song, like how it emotes has to kind
Speaker 1: of be like forceful and your great. Yeah you know. So,
Speaker 1: is there anybody that you consider to be just a
Speaker 1: musical genius m who you're just completely in awe of.
Speaker 1: Well it changes all the time, obviously, but right now
Speaker 1: I'm pretty obsessed with Roy Orbison. Yeah, Like, look what
Speaker 1: is it about him? I mean just the drama, the
Speaker 1: like the it's grand and it's like really incredible vocalist
Speaker 1: and the songs are great, and it's just kind of
Speaker 1: this this like type of singing that makes me like
Speaker 1: I'm just super um interested and impressed and like I
Speaker 1: want to know everything about him these days. I heard
Speaker 1: a story about him that when he sang, he barely
Speaker 1: opened his mouth. That see that's classic crooner. I love it.
Speaker 1: I love it. I'm so jealous. I don't get what
Speaker 1: people talk about. Oh it's my royal orbits, Yeah beautiful,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, And I like it's so I've been
Speaker 1: playing um that song crying like can you do that?
Speaker 1: So good? I wish I let me not embarrassed myself.
Speaker 1: It's so it's so good. It's a dramatic song. I'm
Speaker 1: saying the sad drama like that's what makes a good song.
Speaker 1: I'm here for it. And that's the thing. It's like
Speaker 1: it's sad, but it still makes you feel good. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Is there a song that you're trying to write now
Speaker 1: that you just can't articulate yet? Um, like a feeling
Speaker 1: you're trying to get at or an experience you're trying
Speaker 1: to work through. Yeah, I mean they are like a lot,
Speaker 1: There are a lot of them, But that's usually that
Speaker 1: writing songs have gotten harder for me. It's I'm definitely
Speaker 1: thinking more. One thing I'm obsessed with right now is
Speaker 1: like my songs sounding, my songs reading well without the music,
Speaker 1: because I've been so I've been so like obsessed with
Speaker 1: production and arrangement and those things are super important. But
Speaker 1: like some of my favorite like like mostly folk music,
Speaker 1: but like are all they just read so beautifully when
Speaker 1: you just read the lyrics? And what's an example of
Speaker 1: a song you're thinking of? I mean everything on Joni
Speaker 1: Mitchell's Blue Um, like Joanna Newsom's lyric. Have you ever
Speaker 1: read that like without music? Dance right, dance as fuck
Speaker 1: it is, and and it's masterful actually when you read
Speaker 1: it and you see all the way I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't know if she was like an English person, but
Speaker 1: it's just it kind of just reads like a like
Speaker 1: a book and it's impressive. And English, being my second language,
Speaker 1: I just have never really like felt precious about saying
Speaker 1: something in the most poetic way, like and I'm trying to.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to just like see what that world is
Speaker 1: about see see. And Julie Byrne. Do y'all know Julie Byrne.
Speaker 1: She's amazing. She had a record called Not Even Happiness,
Speaker 1: and there's a song she had that she has on
Speaker 1: there called I Live Now as a Singer and it's
Speaker 1: just like it's just poetry, but it also is an
Speaker 1: incredible song. So that's been kind of what I've been
Speaker 1: going through my songwriting. That's wonder if before we got
Speaker 1: I Know you were going to do like a Joanna Newsom. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think you switched it up, right, I think I
Speaker 1: switched it up. And yeah, I've been kind of obsessing
Speaker 1: over this song called Reason to Believe by Karen Dalton. Yeah, reason,
Speaker 1: but I think it goes I think it's a Tim
Speaker 1: Hardens it is right earlier, it is. It's so good.
Speaker 1: Um and Corney Barnett and I just recorded a cover
Speaker 1: of it like two days ago, and so it's like
Speaker 1: in my head. Yeah, I haven't played the Journeys Win
Speaker 1: in a while, so should we play that new game
Speaker 1: to play it? Yeah? That was awesome. Thank you, Yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, Thank you so much for coming by. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thanks for having me. This was really fun. Thanks to
Speaker 1: Vagabond for sitting down with me and Leah. I'm playing
Speaker 1: some music for us. She was all set to head
Speaker 1: out on the headlining tour across the country, but that's
Speaker 1: been postponed for the time being. In the meantime, you
Speaker 1: can hear all of our favorite Vagabond songs by heading
Speaker 1: to broken record podcast dot com. Broken Record is produced
Speaker 1: help from Jason Gambrel, Mia Bell, Leo Rose, Matt Leboza,
Speaker 1: and my Ten Gonzalez for Pushkin Industries. Our theme musics
Speaker 1: by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond. Thanks for listening.