WEBVTT - Vagabon: Fresh Find 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:16.120 Pushkin like her, Moniker suggests Leticia Tamco, who records under 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:18.960 the name Vagabond, is trying to find a musical place 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:22.759 to call her own. When Vagabond was thirteen, she and 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:26.040 her family moved from Cameroon in West Africa to Harlem. 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:28.960 She learned English in part by watching reruns of The 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:31.920 Fresh Prince of bel Air and identified with the outsider 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:34.280 sentiment heard and the emo and pop punk on the 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:38.240 radio and TV in their early two thousands. Like many 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:41.440 children of immigrants, Vagabond was encouraged by her parents to 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:45.960 become something practical, like an engineer, but by seventeen she 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:49.080 was writing songs and teaching herself to play guitar, and 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:51.360 would sneak out at night to play shows at DIY 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:54.320 punk spaces in Brooklyn, and only a few years later 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:58.480 was recording and putting out songs. She's been completely immersed 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:03.280 in music ever since. Her newest release, the self titled Vagabond, 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:06.240 has been praised by critics at The New Yorker and Pitchfork. 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:10.400 She's also toured with Courtney Barnett, Angel Olsen, and Brittany Howard. 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:13.400 I did this interview recently in La with My Right 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:16.360 hand producer Leah Rose, who's been working on Broken Records 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:18.920 since the beginning of the year. She's a DJ music 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:21.520 journalist who spent almost a decade as an editor at 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:24.679 Double Xcel. When Lee and I sat down with Vagabond 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:26.760 in La she was in the throes of writing songs 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:28.720 for her third album and talked to us about some 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:31.560 of the writer's blocks she was experiencing. Plus, she talked 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:34.800 about her early experiences with music and Cameroon and why 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:36.880 she sometimes wants to give it all up to write 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:43.760 code instead. This is Broken Record liner notes for the 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:51.920 digital Age. I'm justin Richmondon. Just a quick note here. 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:54.160 You can listen to all of the music mentioned in 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:56.800 this episode on our playlist, which you can find a 0:01:56.880 --> 0:02:00.640 link to in the show notes for licensing reasons, each 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:03.440 time a song it's referenced in this episode, you'll hear 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:09.679 this sound effect. All right, enjoyed the episode. Here's Leah 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:13.520 Rose and myself in conversation with Vagabond. What type of 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:15.480 music do you remember playing in your house when you 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:18.720 were growing up. We played a lot of Michael Jackson. 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:23.600 My parents were obsessed with Michael Jackson, and so was 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:26.920 everyone you know where we lived, which was in Yellow 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:30.240 and Day at the time, like everyone all over the 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:32.760 world was obsessed with Michael Jackson, so we listened to 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:34.760 a lot of him, and I would say that that's 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:40.160 the most like contemporary like Western music that we listened to. 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:46.440 We did listen to a lot of more like traditional 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:53.200 West African music. Mani Diebungo was a huge one, like 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:57.959 he's so beloved in our in our like all over 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:00.440 but really like he's a star in our country. We 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:02.680 listened to a lot of that. But most of the 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:05.760 music that I listened to is like gospel music. My 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:10.480 grandmother's a choir director, so a lot of the my like, 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:15.280 my relationship to music was like at church, and so 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:16.760 we'd listen to a lot of that and a lot 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:21.240 of like passed down like traditional folk stuff that my 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:24.520 grandmother would sing around. And then what was the first 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:29.840 time that you really remember connecting to music. I don't 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:32.519 really know how to tell kids ages, so I don't 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:35.680 even know how old I was. But there there's this 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:37.880 like photo of me that exists in my parents' house. 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:42.200 That's me in the middle of like a group of 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:45.720 maybe like fifteen adult women that were all my mom's 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:48.560 friends and they would get together every Sunday. They would say, 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:54.560 they would wear the same like traditional like African dresses 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:58.200 and they would just sing and play music and I 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:00.920 would get in this circle. So this photo is me 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:02.960 getting in the circle and just like taking my go 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:05.280 at it. I mean the photo helped me. Remember. I 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:08.960 don't actually like remember, but I was so young that 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:11.600 I think that's the first time that I really had 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:14.440 a connection with music. Was it a church thing or 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:16.479 what was the group about it? It It was like, you 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:19.240 know in French you call it like a reunion, um, 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:23.360 but I don't really know. It was almost like the 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:25.599 only thing I could equit it to is like sorority, 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:28.720 but they are all They were all like women with kids, 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:31.240 you know, so it was more of like a like 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:34.560 a community thing. And maybe they all went to church. 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:36.440 I have no idea. How did all the kids come 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:39.640 together too with that? No, no, it was only the parents, Yeah, 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:42.120 kids at home. But since my mom was hosting, I 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:46.000 was I was like able to like peek into into 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:49.839 their world. And you were singing and dancing. Yeah, yeah, 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:52.520 which is wild. So how do you think about that now? 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:57.320 Seeing that photo? Are you like, I'm destined to be performing. Yeah. 0:04:57.360 --> 0:04:59.040 I mean my mom brought it up to me and 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:03.159 was like, you know because she she, like everyone was 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:06.359 a skeptic, including myself, Like what like, I like, what 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:10.960 is like that's not a thing? Um? So yeah, like 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:13.960 what does that mean? Even though when I think about it, 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:16.599 that's that's what they were doing. They just weren't calling 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:19.479 it that. Like there was harmonies going on, there were 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:22.040 there were like drums going on, but they never called 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:26.640 it playing music. They never called it like we are musicians. 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:31.159 They were just like doing you know, like harmonizing is 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:33.840 not something that everybody's doing in their household, you know, 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:37.040 but no one really saw it as that. So I 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:40.279 think my mom kind of connected the dots in the 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:43.320 last like year, Like I think this has been something 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:46.000 you've been interested in a long time. Is anybody else 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:48.640 in your family music all at all? Not that I 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:53.360 know of, but they must be like was your dad 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:56.200 doing like was your dad singing and stuff around the house? 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:59.719 Also no, my but my dad has bragged about like 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:04.280 singing on some jazz albums that coincidentally no one knows 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:09.800 the name too. So I don't know. Yeah, I don't 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:11.840 know if it actually happened or if he was like 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:14.320 I used to dabble. I don't know, but my dad 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:18.920 was a dancer when he was younger. Um, but they 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:22.159 don't really like they rarely talk about that, you know, 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:25.640 they rarely bring that up as like anything artistic. So 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:27.880 to me, I have to kind of dig really hard 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:31.000 in my memory to kind of to like to see 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:33.839 the threads of music because it's not a thing that 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:37.280 they ever really took on as a as an identity. Yes, 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:41.279 are they musical people now or not so much? No, 0:06:41.480 --> 0:06:45.400 they like music, but not not really. Like my mom 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:47.760 thinks that I make country music. So that's kind of 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:51.960 like like like that's that's that's where we're at, Like 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:56.719 why country because I play guitar? Oh, that's it. That's 0:06:56.800 --> 0:07:00.920 just she's like guitar country Okay, So you know, and 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:03.080 that's kind of cool for me that they have no 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:06.400 idea and they don't you know, they don't like go 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:09.440 to shows on their own or any or buy albums 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:12.600 or anything. How did it become the thing for you then? 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:16.120 I mean I've always been I've always been pretty obsessed 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:19.800 with it. I used to be like eleven, twelve years old. 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:23.320 I used to be online like looking up like studios 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:25.920 and calling people like and my mom was like, you 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:29.800 need to stop calling strangers, but I would like call studios. 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:32.200 I would call whoever's phone number I can find. That 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:35.720 was like like attached to a music thing and be like, 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:39.320 I want to play music, how do I submit a demo? 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:43.200 Like just being weird. So I've just kind of been 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:47.280 like always interested, but no one around me had accessor 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:51.720 or like the knowledge to guide me in any direction 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:54.840 or to like even know what to tell me. You know, 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:58.119 did you ever meet like a musical mentor at any point, 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:00.400 or someone who you knew was a musician and just 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:02.520 sort of like just got as much knowledge as you 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:06.880 could out of that person. No, I've I literally did 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:11.200 not have anyone that I can talk to about this 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:14.000 stuff until I started doing it. Like there was no 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:16.800 one around me. You know, I'm a kid, so like 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:19.200 everywhere I'm around there is everywhere my parents want me 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:24.080 to be around, And so I wasn't I wasn't really 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:28.400 around anyone who played music or who listened to music 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:31.480 in a way. Just this was like so not a 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:34.920 part of my life. What was your exposure to live 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:38.560 music when you were a kid? Um? I mean apart 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:42.720 from church. There there was nothing. It was church and 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:46.040 that was it. I used to love going to church. 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:50.120 When when we moved to the US, like my mom 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:53.199 started taking us to a church in Harlem Um called 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:56.720 Abyssinian Church, and I used to I mean, that is 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:59.280 my favorite place to see a show to this day. 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:06.320 Like that choir made me feel like music is the 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:10.280 single greatest thing in the world. And I would go 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:14.480 to church like really like religiously no point intended um 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:18.200 to see that choir and to see to see them, 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:22.880 and that church is so important in my life. Like 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:26.360 that's where I like found my scholarship to go to 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:28.960 engineering school. That's where like that church was kind of 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:32.559 like I was. I was a very much like a 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:36.000 viewer of the church. Like I wasn't like a part 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:37.960 of it in any way. I wasn't. I just like 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:39.880 went and I sat in the back and I just 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:44.480 like listened and um, So that is my relationship to 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:47.600 live music. And until I hadn't seen a live show 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:50.760 other than going to church and seeing choirs until I 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:53.960 played a live show. So and then when you moved 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:56.319 to the US and you went to that church, how 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:59.000 is the service different than the services you were used to. 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:02.319 It wasn't that different. Actually, you know, it was a 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:07.680 Abyssinian's a Baptist church, so it's you know, mostly black people, 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:13.520 and it's like the music is so like alive and 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:17.400 it's so rich, and it's so I went to Catholic 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:20.160 school for high school, so like I know what Catholic, 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:22.200 I know what Mass is like, and I know what 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:24.640 like a Baptist church is like. And I know what 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:28.960 a church in Cameroon is like. And I would say 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:33.040 that the church I went to in Cameroon is more 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:34.800 similar to a Baptist church than it is to a 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:38.800 Catholic church. You know, you get up, you like are interacting, 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:42.440 You're like letting it take you. Well, I's curious because 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:46.480 I was wondering if you know, if you started because 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:48.400 you got a guitar, you're sort of get interested in music, 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:50.880 playing music and you got a guitar. Well, I guess 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:53.560 not till seventeen, but I mean we're writing songs in 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:56.920 French early on, or I was writing already in English 0:10:56.960 --> 0:11:00.880 because I was listening to music in English. So I 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:04.360 was listening to like, um, whatever was on the radio 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:08.000 at that time. Um. When I first started kind of 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:12.120 like wanting to write music. It was like pop punk 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:17.240 on the radio and like like alternative like Levine, not 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:21.960 even Avril Levine, um Blink one eighty two, but but 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:25.000 even like like less of the stuff that has even 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:28.079 held up no shade to these bands, but like like 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:36.000 may Day Parade, like yeah, that sounds very like Warped 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:38.840 Tour kind of bands. I was obsessed and I was 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:42.280 like so um, I was like really into All Time 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:48.000 Low and like Forever the Sickest Kids. I don't know, 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:55.160 but I was very into. I was very into those bands. 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:58.320 Um do you remember? Can you put yourself back into 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:01.320 that mindset? What was it about that particular kind of 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:04.400 music that you loved? It was the screaming, like it 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:06.920 was the It was like, you know, you're like a 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:09.360 teenager and you're angry, and no one had told me 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:12.720 about like Rage against the Machine. Ione told me that 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:18.559 there was like cool cool shit out there like mentor Yeah, 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:21.120 I know, no one told me this stuff was happening. 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:23.320 So I was listening to the to the stuff that 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:26.000 was closest to that, but on the radio, because that's 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:28.280 what I had access to. Like when you don't know 0:12:28.320 --> 0:12:30.640 anyone who's going to tell you about the like the 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:34.280 record store or like um or rage or system of 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:38.040 a Down or whatever. Like before anyone could tell me 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:41.720 about that, Like there was All Time Alow on the radio, 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:44.360 there was Avril Levine on the There's Fiefie Dobson who 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:47.640 kind of changed my life. Who's that? Who was? Like 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:51.000 she was like the black woman who was on MTV 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:54.199 like like playing guitar and like singing that kind of music. 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:57.680 And there was really no I was really not seeing 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:01.040 any black girls or any black women doing that kind 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:05.120 of music like on TRL or on MTV or and 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:08.400 she she was that and so like that's kind of 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:11.320 what I that was like the first time that I 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:13.000 was like, oh my god, music is so cool. I 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:15.840 want to play guitar. So did you start dressing differently 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:19.200 at that point? Um? Yeah, I mean I definitely had 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:25.160 like the swoop over bangs and like the dark eye makeup. Yeah, 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:29.319 like you know I did that for sure. It's fine. 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:39.439 I survived. I had I had a phase. Man, it's 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:42.679 so funny. Yeah, when was the first time you actually 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:46.160 went to a live show? Uh? The first time I 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:48.840 went to a live show, I guess technically my first 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:52.439 one was the first show that I played, which was 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:56.880 in twenty fourteen at the Silent Barn in Brooklyn, New York. 0:13:57.400 --> 0:13:59.199 I knew that the Silent Barn was a place that 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:02.280 had like like community built in and that was the 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:04.560 place that I can start learning how to play. And 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:07.680 so I was like looking at their calendar and I 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:09.840 was like, Okay, Like, I wonder if I can hit 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:11.920 up the bands instead of hitting up Silent Barn because 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.040 they don't know who I am, Like, I'm not, I'm 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:17.160 not like anything or anyone. So I'm going to hit 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:19.000 up the bands and send them my song. So that's 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:23.040 what I did. I hit up the the band out 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:25.960 of Massachusetts and I said, Hey, I just put out 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:28.840 this song. Can I open the show? And they were 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:33.800 like yeah, whatever, And had you been to the venue before? No? No, no, 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:38.720 how terrified? How terrified? I'm scared? Just scaring that story. Yeah. 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:40.920 I mean, I think I'm more afraid now of things 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:42.600 than I was back then. I was just like, what 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.160 do I You know, I had written maybe like a 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.000 handful of songs by then, and I knew that I 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:50.800 was practicing them. So I was just going to do 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:54.880 what I did to practice. I don't know I just 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:57.240 did it. Did it feel different? Because I mean, I 0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:00.000 imagine at home, you weren't practicing with like a microphone, right, 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:04.880 that must have felt really different when you get up. Yeah, 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:09.000 I mean it's it was very different. It was very jarring. Um, 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:16.160 but I mostly wanted to be good enough that the 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:18.400 other musicians thought that I was good enough. Like that's 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:21.040 who want to impress them? Yeah, that's like kind of 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:24.040 what the the objective was. Like, I wasn't even thinking 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:27.240 that other people would be listening. I'm just like, but 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:31.080 if the other people think that I am doing something 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:33.840 that like maybe i'm doing like maybe you'll fit in 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:36.080 or you're one of them, yeah, or like or like 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:39.120 or I'm on the right path or like this makes 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:41.680 sense that I'm here. Like maybe if if no one 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:44.280 could tell that I've never done this before, I think 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:48.320 I'll be Okay. You know, did you feel powerful? I did? 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:51.720 I did. Yeah, it's weird. It's it was a it 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:55.960 was a weird show. But one thing I have never 0:15:56.040 --> 0:16:02.000 been was afraid. And that includes being afraid of embarrassing myself, 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:05.280 Like that includes being afraid of like being bad or 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:10.080 because at that point I had I had like I 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:12.320 had given up a lot to even be there, So 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:15.200 I was like, who in the same I wanted to 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:18.920 impress these people, but I also didn't care because I 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:21.880 had to way different life than everybody else. So I 0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:26.800 was just very like I meet some validation that like 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:30.040 I could do this, but I also am going to 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:32.920 do it regardless, if that makes sense. Yeah, so have 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:36.960 you given up maybe a path in life that you 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:38.920 thought you were going to take At that point, you 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:41.000 had already made up your mind that this is what 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:43.080 I'm gonna do. Yeah, I had made up my mind 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:46.720 to myself. I hadn't to hold my parents that had 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:49.960 I hadn't told anybody else in my life that because 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:53.080 I understood that it would sound crazy. Like, you know, 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:57.360 I'm an engineering student. That is clearly a path that 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:00.920 is pretty much guaranteed. Like you know, they say that 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:03.240 you don't know if you get out of school and 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:06.560 you have a job. But like in technology and like engineering, 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:09.639 you have a job, like you can you can go 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:13.320 get a job that pays you like seventy thousand dollars 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:15.760 when you're twenty two, and you could be all right, 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:19.960 you're very stable. It's very stable, and it sounds really good. Yes, 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:22.040 it's very impressive. Yeah, and your parents want to tell 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:24.919 everybody that you can what you're doing. Yeah, especially I 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:27.320 mean especially you know parents who came here and work 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:32.000 to give you an education exactly right, exactly. So I 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:36.840 was like already knew that I would be doing that, 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:38.960 but I was like, let me make sure I have 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:42.359 something to show before I blow my whole life. And 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:45.360 then who were you collaborating with back then? Was there 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:47.359 anyone who you would sort of like play stuff for 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:52.520 get feedback from? Yeah, I had very early on before 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:55.760 Infinite World, I had a friend who was also an 0:17:55.760 --> 0:18:00.840 engineering student, and he had like an emo emo band, 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:03.919 and he was the only one that was around me 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:06.760 that like played guitar and like played loudly and like 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:10.840 screamed and stuff, and so I would I would play 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:14.000 him early on my songs and in the very very 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:16.640 early iterations, like that first show, he played it with 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:23.320 me um, and I wouldn't really get feedback. I wasn't 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:27.119 really interested in because I didn't really even know. I 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:32.240 didn't want. I've been really adamant about people shaping me 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:35.800 and like into early of a stage. There were so 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:38.679 many things that I that that I knew that I 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:42.360 would become better at that, like only I have insight 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:46.359 on the vision. Like so, so there was like a 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:49.520 lot if the notes were based on like my current self. 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:51.840 I didn't really I knew that I was so new 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:54.680 to it that there was bound to be progressed. So 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:57.879 and what songs were you playing then? Um? I was 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:00.760 playing just a lot of songs ended up on my 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:03.800 first album. A lot of the songs from Infinite Worlds 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:07.760 are from like twenty fourteen. Wow, um, they're some of 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:10.159 the Some of them are the first songs that I've written, 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:15.160 songs like Cold Department, Um, Sharks aka them the Embers, 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:17.840 And then there are a few that that, um we're 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:21.000 on the EP before Infinite Worlds that I was playing too. 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:29.520 Would you mind playing Sharks? Would you mind playing the Embers? Oh? Sure, Yeah, 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:35.040 I was waiting for that next. Sorry, sorry I haven't 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:37.520 I haven't practiced them in a long time. It sounds 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:41.479 so good. But that's that's that. We'll be back with 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:49.160 our conversation with Vagabond. After a quick break, we're back 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:52.760 with more from Vagabond. Just incredible. That's so early on 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:56.159 that you know, that's so early on you had a vision. Yeah, 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:59.560 and that you were so confident. Yeah, yeah, I mean 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:03.360 it seems like you're still sort of have that same philosophy. 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:07.040 With the new album, you did pretty much everything completely 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:10.320 on your own, made almost every single instrument, produced every song. 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:14.080 Now it seems like that was very intentional. Yeah. I 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:17.600 would say everything that I do is intentional, maybe even 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:21.320 sometimes to a fault. Like I just want to be 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:26.680 really good, and I want to be respected and and 0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:30.320 I have this like urge to earn it, you know 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:32.679 what I mean, Like like I don't want to just 0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:35.199 like put my name on something. I want to like 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:38.320 have it be like real. I want to know that 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:41.240 I could produce a record. But at the end of 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:43.520 the day, like I'm really glad that I did that. 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:45.720 I'm really glad that I know how to do that, 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:51.919 and that whatever whatever this album means now or later, 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:56.080 like I know that it's important for like my trajectory 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:59.399 as as a musician. Would you ever consider working with 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:01.760 a producer? Do you do you like do you like 0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:03.760 being your own producer and kind of the pressure that 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:07.159 comes with that also, I mean I like it, but 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:08.760 I don't know if I could do this shit again. 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:14.320 Like I I think that you know, this last self 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:17.200 titled record is my second album, and it's not just 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:19.520 like my second album on a label. It's not just 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:23.960 like my second album as Vagabond. It's my second album period. 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:27.520 Like it's the second body of work I've made, and 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:30.159 so it's still really early on for me, and I 0:21:30.200 --> 0:21:32.719 still want it to be like, like to know what 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:36.720 I was doing, even if I have access to hire anybody, like, 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:42.120 I want to have that knowledge and then I can 0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:44.719 kind of like open it up a little bit. So 0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:46.439 now I feel like I'm in a stage where I 0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:48.919 can like go as far as like co producing. How 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:50.680 do you think about the second one? I mean, it's 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:52.719 it's like your newest record, but it's been it's been 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:54.479 a couple of years and you're writing the new one now, 0:21:54.560 --> 0:21:57.119 so it kind of it's behind you in a way. Yeah, 0:21:57.160 --> 0:22:00.720 it's a little bit more people discovering it still, right, Yeah, 0:22:00.760 --> 0:22:04.199 I think I'm like I honestly, I go in and 0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:06.480 out if I'm like going to be all the way 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:09.880 honest sometimes I'm like I used to when it first 0:22:09.880 --> 0:22:11.560 came out, I was like I killed that shit. That 0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:16.400 was so good, And now I'm kind of like did 0:22:16.440 --> 0:22:20.480 I Like, I don't know, thank you, it is really good. 0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:25.119 I just I think it's weird. I think I'm still 0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:27.159 kind of coming to terms with doing something that was 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:31.520 that different from from what I was doing before. And 0:22:32.320 --> 0:22:37.080 I'm not sure if it's I think it's part of 0:22:37.119 --> 0:22:40.120 a larger story and it's kind of like dot dot dot, 0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:43.240 like it's part of a larger thing which will be 0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:47.720 my career, um, but like on its own. So I'm 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:50.760 pretty confused about it. You know, do you feel like 0:22:50.760 --> 0:22:52.560 you want to go back to the kind of more 0:22:52.600 --> 0:22:55.800 the sounds of the first one or um continue sort 0:22:55.800 --> 0:22:57.760 of is there going to be like a when the 0:22:57.760 --> 0:22:59.359 third one comes it will be like, oh wow, there 0:22:59.440 --> 0:23:04.280 is a sort of yea. Honestly, I feel like the 0:23:04.280 --> 0:23:05.960 third one is where I need to like pick a 0:23:06.040 --> 0:23:09.199