1 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 1: Pushkin like her, Moniker suggests Leticia Tamco, who records under 2 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: the name Vagabond, is trying to find a musical place 3 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: to call her own. When Vagabond was thirteen, she and 4 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: her family moved from Cameroon in West Africa to Harlem. 5 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: She learned English in part by watching reruns of The 6 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: Fresh Prince of bel Air and identified with the outsider 7 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: sentiment heard and the emo and pop punk on the 8 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: radio and TV in their early two thousands. Like many 9 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: children of immigrants, Vagabond was encouraged by her parents to 10 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: become something practical, like an engineer, but by seventeen she 11 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: was writing songs and teaching herself to play guitar, and 12 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: would sneak out at night to play shows at DIY 13 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: punk spaces in Brooklyn, and only a few years later 14 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: was recording and putting out songs. She's been completely immersed 15 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: in music ever since. Her newest release, the self titled Vagabond, 16 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: has been praised by critics at The New Yorker and Pitchfork. 17 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 1: She's also toured with Courtney Barnett, Angel Olsen, and Brittany Howard. 18 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 1: I did this interview recently in La with My Right 19 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: hand producer Leah Rose, who's been working on Broken Records 20 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: since the beginning of the year. She's a DJ music 21 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: journalist who spent almost a decade as an editor at 22 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 1: Double Xcel. When Lee and I sat down with Vagabond 23 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: in La she was in the throes of writing songs 24 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: for her third album and talked to us about some 25 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: of the writer's blocks she was experiencing. Plus, she talked 26 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: about her early experiences with music and Cameroon and why 27 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: she sometimes wants to give it all up to write 28 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: code instead. This is Broken Record liner notes for the 29 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: digital Age. I'm justin Richmondon. Just a quick note here. 30 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: You can listen to all of the music mentioned in 31 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: this episode on our playlist, which you can find a 32 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: link to in the show notes for licensing reasons, each 33 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: time a song it's referenced in this episode, you'll hear 34 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:09,679 Speaker 1: this sound effect. All right, enjoyed the episode. Here's Leah 35 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: Rose and myself in conversation with Vagabond. What type of 36 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: music do you remember playing in your house when you 37 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: were growing up. We played a lot of Michael Jackson. 38 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: My parents were obsessed with Michael Jackson, and so was 39 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 1: everyone you know where we lived, which was in Yellow 40 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: and Day at the time, like everyone all over the 41 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: world was obsessed with Michael Jackson, so we listened to 42 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: a lot of him, and I would say that that's 43 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: the most like contemporary like Western music that we listened to. 44 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: We did listen to a lot of more like traditional 45 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: West African music. Mani Diebungo was a huge one, like 46 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,959 Speaker 1: he's so beloved in our in our like all over 47 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: but really like he's a star in our country. We 48 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: listened to a lot of that. But most of the 49 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: music that I listened to is like gospel music. My 50 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: grandmother's a choir director, so a lot of the my like, 51 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: my relationship to music was like at church, and so 52 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: we'd listen to a lot of that and a lot 53 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: of like passed down like traditional folk stuff that my 54 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: grandmother would sing around. And then what was the first 55 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: time that you really remember connecting to music. I don't 56 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,519 Speaker 1: really know how to tell kids ages, so I don't 57 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: even know how old I was. But there there's this 58 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: like photo of me that exists in my parents' house. 59 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: That's me in the middle of like a group of 60 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: maybe like fifteen adult women that were all my mom's 61 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: friends and they would get together every Sunday. They would say, 62 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: they would wear the same like traditional like African dresses 63 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: and they would just sing and play music and I 64 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: would get in this circle. So this photo is me 65 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: getting in the circle and just like taking my go 66 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: at it. I mean the photo helped me. Remember. I 67 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: don't actually like remember, but I was so young that 68 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: I think that's the first time that I really had 69 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: a connection with music. Was it a church thing or 70 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 1: what was the group about it? It It was like, you 71 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: know in French you call it like a reunion, um, 72 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 1: but I don't really know. It was almost like the 73 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 1: only thing I could equit it to is like sorority, 74 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 1: but they are all They were all like women with kids, 75 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: you know, so it was more of like a like 76 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: a community thing. And maybe they all went to church. 77 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: I have no idea. How did all the kids come 78 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: together too with that? No, no, it was only the parents, Yeah, 79 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: kids at home. But since my mom was hosting, I 80 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: was I was like able to like peek into into 81 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: their world. And you were singing and dancing. Yeah, yeah, 82 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: which is wild. So how do you think about that now? 83 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: Seeing that photo? Are you like, I'm destined to be performing. Yeah. 84 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 1: I mean my mom brought it up to me and 85 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 1: was like, you know because she she, like everyone was 86 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,359 Speaker 1: a skeptic, including myself, Like what like, I like, what 87 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: is like that's not a thing? Um? So yeah, like 88 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: what does that mean? Even though when I think about it, 89 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 1: that's that's what they were doing. They just weren't calling 90 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:19,479 Speaker 1: it that. Like there was harmonies going on, there were 91 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: there were like drums going on, but they never called 92 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: it playing music. They never called it like we are musicians. 93 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 1: They were just like doing you know, like harmonizing is 94 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,840 Speaker 1: not something that everybody's doing in their household, you know, 95 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 1: but no one really saw it as that. So I 96 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 1: think my mom kind of connected the dots in the 97 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: last like year, Like I think this has been something 98 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: you've been interested in a long time. Is anybody else 99 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: in your family music all at all? Not that I 100 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: know of, but they must be like was your dad 101 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: doing like was your dad singing and stuff around the house? 102 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 1: Also no, my but my dad has bragged about like 103 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 1: singing on some jazz albums that coincidentally no one knows 104 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: the name too. So I don't know. Yeah, I don't 105 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 1: know if it actually happened or if he was like 106 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: I used to dabble. I don't know, but my dad 107 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 1: was a dancer when he was younger. Um, but they 108 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 1: don't really like they rarely talk about that, you know, 109 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: they rarely bring that up as like anything artistic. So 110 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: to me, I have to kind of dig really hard 111 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: in my memory to kind of to like to see 112 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: the threads of music because it's not a thing that 113 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 1: they ever really took on as a as an identity. Yes, 114 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 1: are they musical people now or not so much? No, 115 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: they like music, but not not really. Like my mom 116 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: thinks that I make country music. So that's kind of 117 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: like like like that's that's that's where we're at, Like 118 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,719 Speaker 1: why country because I play guitar? Oh, that's it. That's 119 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: just she's like guitar country Okay, So you know, and 120 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: that's kind of cool for me that they have no 121 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: idea and they don't you know, they don't like go 122 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: to shows on their own or any or buy albums 123 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: or anything. How did it become the thing for you then? 124 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: I mean I've always been I've always been pretty obsessed 125 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: with it. I used to be like eleven, twelve years old. 126 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: I used to be online like looking up like studios 127 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: and calling people like and my mom was like, you 128 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: need to stop calling strangers, but I would like call studios. 129 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: I would call whoever's phone number I can find. That 130 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: was like like attached to a music thing and be like, 131 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: I want to play music, how do I submit a demo? 132 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: Like just being weird. So I've just kind of been 133 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: like always interested, but no one around me had accessor 134 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: or like the knowledge to guide me in any direction 135 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 1: or to like even know what to tell me. You know, 136 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,119 Speaker 1: did you ever meet like a musical mentor at any point, 137 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: or someone who you knew was a musician and just 138 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: sort of like just got as much knowledge as you 139 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: could out of that person. No, I've I literally did 140 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: not have anyone that I can talk to about this 141 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: stuff until I started doing it. Like there was no 142 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: one around me. You know, I'm a kid, so like 143 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: everywhere I'm around there is everywhere my parents want me 144 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: to be around, And so I wasn't I wasn't really 145 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: around anyone who played music or who listened to music 146 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: in a way. Just this was like so not a 147 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: part of my life. What was your exposure to live 148 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 1: music when you were a kid? Um? I mean apart 149 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: from church. There there was nothing. It was church and 150 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: that was it. I used to love going to church. 151 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: When when we moved to the US, like my mom 152 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,199 Speaker 1: started taking us to a church in Harlem Um called 153 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: Abyssinian Church, and I used to I mean, that is 154 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: my favorite place to see a show to this day. 155 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 1: Like that choir made me feel like music is the 156 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: single greatest thing in the world. And I would go 157 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: to church like really like religiously no point intended um 158 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 1: to see that choir and to see to see them, 159 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: and that church is so important in my life. Like 160 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 1: that's where I like found my scholarship to go to 161 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 1: engineering school. That's where like that church was kind of 162 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 1: like I was. I was a very much like a 163 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: viewer of the church. Like I wasn't like a part 164 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: of it in any way. I wasn't. I just like 165 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: went and I sat in the back and I just 166 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: like listened and um, So that is my relationship to 167 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: live music. And until I hadn't seen a live show 168 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: other than going to church and seeing choirs until I 169 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 1: played a live show. So and then when you moved 170 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,319 Speaker 1: to the US and you went to that church, how 171 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: is the service different than the services you were used to. 172 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 1: It wasn't that different. Actually, you know, it was a 173 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 1: Abyssinian's a Baptist church, so it's you know, mostly black people, 174 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: and it's like the music is so like alive and 175 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: it's so rich, and it's so I went to Catholic 176 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: school for high school, so like I know what Catholic, 177 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 1: I know what Mass is like, and I know what 178 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: like a Baptist church is like. And I know what 179 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: a church in Cameroon is like. And I would say 180 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: that the church I went to in Cameroon is more 181 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: similar to a Baptist church than it is to a 182 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: Catholic church. You know, you get up, you like are interacting, 183 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: You're like letting it take you. Well, I's curious because 184 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: I was wondering if you know, if you started because 185 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: you got a guitar, you're sort of get interested in music, 186 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: playing music and you got a guitar. Well, I guess 187 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: not till seventeen, but I mean we're writing songs in 188 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: French early on, or I was writing already in English 189 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: because I was listening to music in English. So I 190 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: was listening to like, um, whatever was on the radio 191 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: at that time. Um. When I first started kind of 192 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: like wanting to write music. It was like pop punk 193 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: on the radio and like like alternative like Levine, not 194 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: even Avril Levine, um Blink one eighty two, but but 195 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: even like like less of the stuff that has even 196 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 1: held up no shade to these bands, but like like 197 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: may Day Parade, like yeah, that sounds very like Warped 198 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 1: Tour kind of bands. I was obsessed and I was 199 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: like so um, I was like really into All Time 200 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: Low and like Forever the Sickest Kids. I don't know, 201 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: but I was very into. I was very into those bands. 202 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: Um do you remember? Can you put yourself back into 203 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: that mindset? What was it about that particular kind of 204 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: music that you loved? It was the screaming, like it 205 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: was the It was like, you know, you're like a 206 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: teenager and you're angry, and no one had told me 207 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: about like Rage against the Machine. Ione told me that 208 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 1: there was like cool cool shit out there like mentor Yeah, 209 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 1: I know, no one told me this stuff was happening. 210 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: So I was listening to the to the stuff that 211 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: was closest to that, but on the radio, because that's 212 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: what I had access to. Like when you don't know 213 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: anyone who's going to tell you about the like the 214 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: record store or like um or rage or system of 215 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: a Down or whatever. Like before anyone could tell me 216 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: about that, Like there was All Time Alow on the radio, 217 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: there was Avril Levine on the There's Fiefie Dobson who 218 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: kind of changed my life. Who's that? Who was? Like 219 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: she was like the black woman who was on MTV 220 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,199 Speaker 1: like like playing guitar and like singing that kind of music. 221 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 1: And there was really no I was really not seeing 222 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: any black girls or any black women doing that kind 223 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: of music like on TRL or on MTV or and 224 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: she she was that and so like that's kind of 225 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: what I that was like the first time that I 226 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, music is so cool. I 227 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: want to play guitar. So did you start dressing differently 228 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: at that point? Um? Yeah, I mean I definitely had 229 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: like the swoop over bangs and like the dark eye makeup. Yeah, 230 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:29,319 Speaker 1: like you know I did that for sure. It's fine. 231 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:39,439 Speaker 1: I survived. I had I had a phase. Man, it's 232 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 1: so funny. Yeah, when was the first time you actually 233 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: went to a live show? Uh? The first time I 234 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: went to a live show, I guess technically my first 235 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,439 Speaker 1: one was the first show that I played, which was 236 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: in twenty fourteen at the Silent Barn in Brooklyn, New York. 237 00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,199 Speaker 1: I knew that the Silent Barn was a place that 238 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: had like like community built in and that was the 239 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: place that I can start learning how to play. And 240 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 1: so I was like looking at their calendar and I 241 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: was like, Okay, Like, I wonder if I can hit 242 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: up the bands instead of hitting up Silent Barn because 243 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: they don't know who I am, Like, I'm not, I'm 244 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: not like anything or anyone. So I'm going to hit 245 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: up the bands and send them my song. So that's 246 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: what I did. I hit up the the band out 247 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 1: of Massachusetts and I said, Hey, I just put out 248 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: this song. Can I open the show? And they were 249 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: like yeah, whatever, And had you been to the venue before? No? No, no, 250 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: how terrified? How terrified? I'm scared? Just scaring that story. Yeah. 251 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I think I'm more afraid now of things 252 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: than I was back then. I was just like, what 253 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: do I You know, I had written maybe like a 254 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: handful of songs by then, and I knew that I 255 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: was practicing them. So I was just going to do 256 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: what I did to practice. I don't know I just 257 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 1: did it. Did it feel different? Because I mean, I 258 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: imagine at home, you weren't practicing with like a microphone, right, 259 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: that must have felt really different when you get up. Yeah, 260 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: I mean it's it was very different. It was very jarring. Um, 261 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: but I mostly wanted to be good enough that the 262 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: other musicians thought that I was good enough. Like that's 263 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: who want to impress them? Yeah, that's like kind of 264 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: what the the objective was. Like, I wasn't even thinking 265 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: that other people would be listening. I'm just like, but 266 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: if the other people think that I am doing something 267 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: that like maybe i'm doing like maybe you'll fit in 268 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: or you're one of them, yeah, or like or like 269 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: or I'm on the right path or like this makes 270 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: sense that I'm here. Like maybe if if no one 271 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: could tell that I've never done this before, I think 272 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: I'll be Okay. You know, did you feel powerful? I did? 273 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: I did. Yeah, it's weird. It's it was a it 274 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: was a weird show. But one thing I have never 275 00:15:56,040 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: been was afraid. And that includes being afraid of embarrassing myself, 276 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: Like that includes being afraid of like being bad or 277 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: because at that point I had I had like I 278 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: had given up a lot to even be there, So 279 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: I was like, who in the same I wanted to 280 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: impress these people, but I also didn't care because I 281 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 1: had to way different life than everybody else. So I 282 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: was just very like I meet some validation that like 283 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: I could do this, but I also am going to 284 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: do it regardless, if that makes sense. Yeah, so have 285 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: you given up maybe a path in life that you 286 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: thought you were going to take At that point, you 287 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: had already made up your mind that this is what 288 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do. Yeah, I had made up my mind 289 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: to myself. I hadn't to hold my parents that had 290 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: I hadn't told anybody else in my life that because 291 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: I understood that it would sound crazy. Like, you know, 292 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: I'm an engineering student. That is clearly a path that 293 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: is pretty much guaranteed. Like you know, they say that 294 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: you don't know if you get out of school and 295 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: you have a job. But like in technology and like engineering, 296 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: you have a job, like you can you can go 297 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: get a job that pays you like seventy thousand dollars 298 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: when you're twenty two, and you could be all right, 299 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 1: you're very stable. It's very stable, and it sounds really good. Yes, 300 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: it's very impressive. Yeah, and your parents want to tell 301 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:24,919 Speaker 1: everybody that you can what you're doing. Yeah, especially I 302 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 1: mean especially you know parents who came here and work 303 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: to give you an education exactly right, exactly. So I 304 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: was like already knew that I would be doing that, 305 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: but I was like, let me make sure I have 306 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: something to show before I blow my whole life. And 307 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,360 Speaker 1: then who were you collaborating with back then? Was there 308 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 1: anyone who you would sort of like play stuff for 309 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: get feedback from? Yeah, I had very early on before 310 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: Infinite World, I had a friend who was also an 311 00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: engineering student, and he had like an emo emo band, 312 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,919 Speaker 1: and he was the only one that was around me 313 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: that like played guitar and like played loudly and like 314 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: screamed and stuff, and so I would I would play 315 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: him early on my songs and in the very very 316 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 1: early iterations, like that first show, he played it with 317 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: me um, and I wouldn't really get feedback. I wasn't 318 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: really interested in because I didn't really even know. I 319 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: didn't want. I've been really adamant about people shaping me 320 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: and like into early of a stage. There were so 321 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,679 Speaker 1: many things that I that that I knew that I 322 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:42,360 Speaker 1: would become better at that, like only I have insight 323 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 1: on the vision. Like so, so there was like a 324 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: lot if the notes were based on like my current self. 325 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: I didn't really I knew that I was so new 326 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 1: to it that there was bound to be progressed. So 327 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 1: and what songs were you playing then? Um? I was 328 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: playing just a lot of songs ended up on my 329 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: first album. A lot of the songs from Infinite Worlds 330 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: are from like twenty fourteen. Wow, um, they're some of 331 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 1: the Some of them are the first songs that I've written, 332 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 1: songs like Cold Department, Um, Sharks aka them the Embers, 333 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: And then there are a few that that, um we're 334 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: on the EP before Infinite Worlds that I was playing too. 335 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: Would you mind playing Sharks? Would you mind playing the Embers? Oh? Sure, Yeah, 336 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 1: I was waiting for that next. Sorry, sorry I haven't 337 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: I haven't practiced them in a long time. It sounds 338 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,479 Speaker 1: so good. But that's that's that. We'll be back with 339 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:49,160 Speaker 1: our conversation with Vagabond. After a quick break, we're back 340 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: with more from Vagabond. Just incredible. That's so early on 341 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 1: that you know, that's so early on you had a vision. Yeah, 342 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: and that you were so confident. Yeah, yeah, I mean 343 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:03,360 Speaker 1: it seems like you're still sort of have that same philosophy. 344 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: With the new album, you did pretty much everything completely 345 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: on your own, made almost every single instrument, produced every song. 346 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: Now it seems like that was very intentional. Yeah. I 347 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: would say everything that I do is intentional, maybe even 348 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: sometimes to a fault. Like I just want to be 349 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: really good, and I want to be respected and and 350 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: I have this like urge to earn it, you know 351 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,679 Speaker 1: what I mean, Like like I don't want to just 352 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,199 Speaker 1: like put my name on something. I want to like 353 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: have it be like real. I want to know that 354 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: I could produce a record. But at the end of 355 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: the day, like I'm really glad that I did that. 356 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: I'm really glad that I know how to do that, 357 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:51,919 Speaker 1: and that whatever whatever this album means now or later, 358 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: like I know that it's important for like my trajectory 359 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 1: as as a musician. Would you ever consider working with 360 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: a producer? Do you do you like do you like 361 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: being your own producer and kind of the pressure that 362 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 1: comes with that also, I mean I like it, but 363 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 1: I don't know if I could do this shit again. 364 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: Like I I think that you know, this last self 365 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: titled record is my second album, and it's not just 366 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: like my second album on a label. It's not just 367 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: like my second album as Vagabond. It's my second album period. 368 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: Like it's the second body of work I've made, and 369 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 1: so it's still really early on for me, and I 370 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,719 Speaker 1: still want it to be like, like to know what 371 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: I was doing, even if I have access to hire anybody, like, 372 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:42,120 Speaker 1: I want to have that knowledge and then I can 373 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,719 Speaker 1: kind of like open it up a little bit. So 374 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:46,439 Speaker 1: now I feel like I'm in a stage where I 375 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,919 Speaker 1: can like go as far as like co producing. How 376 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 1: do you think about the second one? I mean, it's 377 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:52,719 Speaker 1: it's like your newest record, but it's been it's been 378 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:54,479 Speaker 1: a couple of years and you're writing the new one now, 379 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 1: so it kind of it's behind you in a way. Yeah, 380 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: it's a little bit more people discovering it still, right, Yeah, 381 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:04,199 Speaker 1: I think I'm like I honestly, I go in and 382 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: out if I'm like going to be all the way 383 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 1: honest sometimes I'm like I used to when it first 384 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: came out, I was like I killed that shit. That 385 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:16,400 Speaker 1: was so good, And now I'm kind of like did 386 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: I Like, I don't know, thank you, it is really good. 387 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 1: I just I think it's weird. I think I'm still 388 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 1: kind of coming to terms with doing something that was 389 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: that different from from what I was doing before. And 390 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: I'm not sure if it's I think it's part of 391 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,120 Speaker 1: a larger story and it's kind of like dot dot dot, 392 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: like it's part of a larger thing which will be 393 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: my career, um, but like on its own. So I'm 394 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: pretty confused about it. You know, do you feel like 395 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: you want to go back to the kind of more 396 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: the sounds of the first one or um continue sort 397 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: of is there going to be like a when the 398 00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 1: third one comes it will be like, oh wow, there 399 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: is a sort of yea. Honestly, I feel like the 400 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 1: third one is where I need to like pick a 401 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,199 Speaker 1: lane essentially, which may not be true, but I'm just 402 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: gonna be real, like this is what's going on in 403 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: my head about like, Okay, I made an indie rock record, 404 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 1: and I made a record that's not that, and now 405 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: I don't really know. I'm now trying not to think 406 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: about what kind of a record I'm making. I'm just 407 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 1: I just want to write songs and I just want 408 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: to like put those songs on an album, So I'm 409 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: just kind of like, I'm a little confused. Do you 410 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: think that's more for you so you can classify yourself. No, 411 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,400 Speaker 1: it's fully because like outside sources are in my head, 412 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: like not like or when people write about your music. Yeah, 413 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: it's like it's like I don't really I don't really 414 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: read my press unless it's like the New Yorker, thank 415 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 1: you very much, but but like im what a black 416 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm still confused. But the New Yorker has 417 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: approved um. But I think that I get pretty confused 418 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: once it goes out there and it's like seen in 419 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 1: a certain way, and I'm like what wait. I was 420 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: looking at the comments on YouTube for the water Me 421 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: Down video. Lord are they bad? They are so great? Okay, 422 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,199 Speaker 1: it's like overwhelmingly positive. Okay, good, you should read them 423 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: if you're ever feeling that I'm scared. I can't anything negative. 424 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, it is so encouraging as it 425 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:42,360 Speaker 1: goes down in the YouTube comments, people are vicious, but 426 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,199 Speaker 1: it's the only I will say. The times where I 427 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: feel the most sure of what I've made is when 428 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: I'm performing, because that is the only time that I'm 429 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: interacting with people who are um, they don't even have 430 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: to say anything to me, but just energetically they're letting 431 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: me know where in this together. And I don't feel 432 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 1: like I just have like press and like numbers in 433 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: my inbox and like, you know, like but when I'm 434 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: sitting at home writing, like that's my thread to what 435 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:18,400 Speaker 1: is going on with my records. So it's like it's 436 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 1: it's very different when I'm on tour and I'm like 437 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: going to I'm like going to places and seeing people 438 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 1: and be like holy crap, like what And that's when 439 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: it feels like, Okay, we're all right. Yeah. What does 440 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 1: it feel like to when you're performing life to look 441 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,959 Speaker 1: down and have people just like looking at you with 442 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: love in their eyes? Uh? I don't know. It's pretty embarrassing. 443 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: I have this thing where if I open my eyes 444 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: for too long while performing, I will like sing a 445 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: bad note like like it gets too real, Like it 446 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: gets so like, so I have to like look when 447 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: my eyes are open, I have to look right past everybody. 448 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: So you know, I don't I don't spend much time 449 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: at the merch table anymore, but that's really where I 450 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 1: got to talk to people and that's where I got 451 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: to like hang out with people in a way that 452 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: was like, you know, we're on the same level because 453 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: I think, I don't know, I don't know if I'm 454 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: supposed to be into the whole, Like I'm more elevated 455 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 1: than you think. But it kind of freaks me out 456 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: a little bit. So my favorite line on the last 457 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 1: album from every Woman is all the women I meet 458 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: are tired? Where did that come from? Um? It's like 459 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: loosely referencing a poem by Naira Wahid And it's in 460 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 1: this book called Njema that I really enjoyed, And it's 461 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: just a it's just a a like a line that 462 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 1: I think like unites a lot of people. It's it's 463 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: one that a lot of people can understand. So do 464 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 1: you want to play a little bit of that, Let's 465 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 1: do it. We'll be back with more from Vagabond after 466 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:04,360 Speaker 1: the break. We're back with the rest of our interview 467 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: with Vagabond. What part of your music are you enjoying 468 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: the most so far? Is it the songwriting, between the songwriting, 469 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: the recording, the performing. Right now, I'm enjoying I think 470 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: performing is number one, and then recording has become number two. 471 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 1: Songwriting is just kicking my ass lately. But if you 472 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: asked me like last year, I would have said I 473 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: enjoy songwriting. But that's I'm I'm writing now, So I'm 474 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:38,679 Speaker 1: that's like where I'm like emotionally like getting a beating 475 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: all the time. So is it hard because you're running 476 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 1: out of things to talk about or you can't find 477 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: ways to express things? No, I it's hard because more 478 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 1: people are watching, so the pressure is on. Yeah, and 479 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: I'm trying, and I'm like I had this thought. I 480 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,120 Speaker 1: was like, what if I just like got a job 481 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: somewhere and I didn't think about music all the time. 482 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: I don't know, but I was like, what if I 483 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: just like, what if I just like was a coder 484 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,919 Speaker 1: like and then just it's like but it's almost like 485 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 1: self protect. It's like I want to go back to 486 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: the time and again. This is so I feel like 487 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: I'm in therapy right now. This is not this is 488 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 1: not a real thing. This is me freaking out. Like 489 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 1: this is me like writing an album and freaking out 490 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: like that's when we're talking. But it's I want to 491 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: like not think about music twenty four seven to a 492 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: point where it's like insane, you know. Yeah, like maybe 493 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: I'll go volunteer somewhere and like do that for like 494 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 1: four days a week so that something else is occupying 495 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: my time besides me and my music, because you just 496 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: don't want you don't want music to feel like work. Yeah, 497 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: I don't want it to feel like it's the only 498 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: thing that I know how to do and it's the 499 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: only place that I hold my like all my eggs, 500 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: you know. I want to like yeah, yeah, that that 501 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: seems a little dangerous, and so I want to like 502 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: I want to, Yeah, I think I'm just gonna volunteer somewhere, 503 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: like yeah, like play with Kenny, yeah, like like yeah, 504 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: like please like right now, there are so many things 505 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 1: that I could do with my time instead of sitting 506 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: there and being like, oh, like I never feel like, 507 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't matter what you do, so don't stop, 508 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: like that will matter. No, I don't plan to do. 509 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: What do you feel naturally drawn sort of like writing 510 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: about mostly mostly it's sad, and I think that's because 511 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: of how I like started writing songs, and like, you know, 512 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: a lot of people write from that space, a lot 513 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 1: of people, but like I can't write a song about 514 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 1: I haven't been able to write a song about being 515 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 1: happy or like so happy I had to write a 516 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: song Like it's usually like so mad or so sad 517 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: that I have to write a song. Um, And that's 518 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: just kind of like what my first songs were about 519 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: was like all like grappling all this stuff that was confusing. 520 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: So I think that that's like currently and up until now, 521 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 1: has been where where I draw the most like emotion from. 522 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 1: I think songs about hardship, suffering, heartbreak might be more 523 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: interesting than happy songs hot take. Yeah, no, I mean 524 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: I I'm biased, but you know I'm away. I'm always 525 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: drawn to like super sad songs. Yeah, I mean me too, Yeah, 526 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: I have, I have been in the past, Like those 527 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: are the songs that I like. And it's weird because 528 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 1: I also listened to a lot of pop music that 529 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 1: I'm that is not like devastating, you know. Um, But 530 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: I think because I've just like, oh, like I had 531 00:30:55,960 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: a very sad time like when I was a teenager. 532 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: That that's you know when we're talking about like listening 533 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: to pop punk and yeah, exactly an emo and like 534 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: all that stuff like that's it's not so much that 535 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: I related to the content of their lyrics, but it 536 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: was like the emotion um so, like even if it's 537 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 1: a happy song, like how it emotes has to kind 538 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: of be like forceful and your great. Yeah you know. So, 539 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: is there anybody that you consider to be just a 540 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 1: musical genius m who you're just completely in awe of. 541 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 1: Well it changes all the time, obviously, but right now 542 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 1: I'm pretty obsessed with Roy Orbison. Yeah, Like, look what 543 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: is it about him? I mean just the drama, the 544 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: like the it's grand and it's like really incredible vocalist 545 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: and the songs are great, and it's just kind of 546 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: this this like type of singing that makes me like 547 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 1: I'm just super um interested and impressed and like I 548 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 1: want to know everything about him these days. I heard 549 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: a story about him that when he sang, he barely 550 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 1: opened his mouth. That see that's classic crooner. I love it. 551 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: I love it. I'm so jealous. I don't get what 552 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 1: people talk about. Oh it's my royal orbits, Yeah beautiful, 553 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: Oh my god, And I like it's so I've been 554 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: playing um that song crying like can you do that? 555 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: So good? I wish I let me not embarrassed myself. 556 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:41,959 Speaker 1: It's so it's so good. It's a dramatic song. I'm 557 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: saying the sad drama like that's what makes a good song. 558 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 1: I'm here for it. And that's the thing. It's like 559 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 1: it's sad, but it still makes you feel good. Yeah. 560 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: Is there a song that you're trying to write now 561 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 1: that you just can't articulate yet? Um, like a feeling 562 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: you're trying to get at or an experience you're trying 563 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 1: to work through. Yeah, I mean they are like a lot, 564 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: There are a lot of them, But that's usually that 565 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: writing songs have gotten harder for me. It's I'm definitely 566 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: thinking more. One thing I'm obsessed with right now is 567 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 1: like my songs sounding, my songs reading well without the music, 568 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: because I've been so I've been so like obsessed with 569 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 1: production and arrangement and those things are super important. But 570 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: like some of my favorite like like mostly folk music, 571 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 1: but like are all they just read so beautifully when 572 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 1: you just read the lyrics? And what's an example of 573 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 1: a song you're thinking of? I mean everything on Joni 574 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: Mitchell's Blue Um, like Joanna Newsom's lyric. Have you ever 575 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: read that like without music? Dance right, dance as fuck 576 00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 1: it is, and and it's masterful actually when you read 577 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 1: it and you see all the way I mean, I 578 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:08,479 Speaker 1: don't know if she was like an English person, but 579 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 1: it's just it kind of just reads like a like 580 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 1: a book and it's impressive. And English, being my second language, 581 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 1: I just have never really like felt precious about saying 582 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 1: something in the most poetic way, like and I'm trying to. 583 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: I'm trying to just like see what that world is 584 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:34,240 Speaker 1: about see see. And Julie Byrne. Do y'all know Julie Byrne. 585 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: She's amazing. She had a record called Not Even Happiness, 586 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 1: and there's a song she had that she has on 587 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 1: there called I Live Now as a Singer and it's 588 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 1: just like it's just poetry, but it also is an 589 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: incredible song. So that's been kind of what I've been 590 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 1: going through my songwriting. That's wonder if before we got 591 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,840 Speaker 1: I Know you were going to do like a Joanna Newsom. Yeah, 592 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 1: I think you switched it up, right, I think I 593 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: switched it up. And yeah, I've been kind of obsessing 594 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: over this song called Reason to Believe by Karen Dalton. Yeah, reason, 595 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:12,879 Speaker 1: but I think it goes I think it's a Tim 596 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,880 Speaker 1: Hardens it is right earlier, it is. It's so good. 597 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 1: Um and Corney Barnett and I just recorded a cover 598 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:21,759 Speaker 1: of it like two days ago, and so it's like 599 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,799 Speaker 1: in my head. Yeah, I haven't played the Journeys Win 600 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,279 Speaker 1: in a while, so should we play that new game 601 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:32,239 Speaker 1: to play it? Yeah? That was awesome. Thank you, Yeah, 602 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,799 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, Thank you so much for coming by. Yeah, 603 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:39,840 Speaker 1: thanks for having me. This was really fun. Thanks to 604 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:41,879 Speaker 1: Vagabond for sitting down with me and Leah. I'm playing 605 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,440 Speaker 1: some music for us. She was all set to head 606 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 1: out on the headlining tour across the country, but that's 607 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: been postponed for the time being. In the meantime, you 608 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 1: can hear all of our favorite Vagabond songs by heading 609 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,920 Speaker 1: to broken record podcast dot com. Broken Record is produced 610 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: help from Jason Gambrel, Mia Bell, Leo Rose, Matt Leboza, 611 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,319 Speaker 1: and my Ten Gonzalez for Pushkin Industries. Our theme musics 612 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 1: by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond. Thanks for listening.