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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grease.

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Speaker 2: Brian Coberger heading back to court in about forty eight hours.

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Speaker 2: What will happen when he once again is face to

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Speaker 2: face with a judge. Will victim's families show up? Many

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Speaker 2: important details leading up to this moment. We now know

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Speaker 2: that Coburger's lawyer and Taylor, has waived her right to

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Speaker 2: a speedy trial. After all this, all this whining and

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Speaker 2: moaning and complaining about a speedy trial demand and now

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Speaker 2: they wave it. It was all just a game. It

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Speaker 2: was all just a ruse. This as they contested DNA

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Speaker 2: and they are questioning three unknown male DNA found at

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Speaker 2: the scene of this home where multiple co eds had lived.

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Speaker 2: People were in and out all the time. It was

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Speaker 2: the real party house. That could have been anybody. So

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure out which way the defense is headed,

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Speaker 2: because I guarantee you they're going to claim that they

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Speaker 2: had to waive their right to a speedy trial because

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Speaker 2: they didn't have enough time to review the state's DNA

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Speaker 2: evidence b S. That's total BS, the state has said,

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Speaker 2: and this can be confirmed that the crime lab hasn't

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Speaker 2: finished all the DNA analysis, so how can they turn

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Speaker 2: over what they don't have. I mean, as he Grace,

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Speaker 2: thanks for being with us. Joining me right now, two

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Speaker 2: special guests that are intimately familiar with the legal aspects

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Speaker 2: and the factual aspects of the Coburger prosecution. Deal Carson

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Speaker 2: is joining me. High profile lawyer out of Jacksonville, former

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Speaker 2: FBI agent, former cop in Miami Dade, author of Arrest

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Speaker 2: Proof Yourself. You can find him at Delcarsonlaw dot com.

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Speaker 2: He's been studying the legal angles, says this first broke

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Speaker 2: and I mean when the murders occurred. He's been on

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Speaker 2: the case also with me. Chris McDonough, you know him well.

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Speaker 2: He is the director of the Cold Case Foundation, former

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Speaker 2: homicide detective with around three hundred homicides under his belt,

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Speaker 2: twenty five years in law enforcement. I found him on

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Speaker 2: the YouTube channel, the Interview Room, when he was doing

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Speaker 2: a very slow drive through all around the King Road

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Speaker 2: murder scene. That's when I found Chris McDonough. Deal Carson.

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Speaker 2: Chris McDonough, thank you for being with us. First of all,

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Speaker 2: Deal Carson. How many times have defense attorneys file, including you,

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Speaker 2: filed speedy trial demands when you know more than the

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Speaker 2: man of the moon intend to take the case to

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Speaker 2: trial within six months total.

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Speaker 3: Bs is But the reason ostensibly is that the defense

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Speaker 3: hasn't had an opportunity to fully prepare for the case

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Speaker 3: as the prosecution already has. The prosecution has all the evidence,

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Speaker 3: right but.

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Speaker 2: In the first two minutes. But no, the state has

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Speaker 2: handed over all the evidence. It's not like they're hoarding

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Speaker 2: it or hiding it. Agreed, let me tell you a story.

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Speaker 2: I almost said a funny story, but it wasn't funny

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Speaker 2: to me. Dale and Chris, you know only too well

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Speaker 2: from being on the stand. I was preparing a death

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Speaker 2: penalty case where infants, several infants in their baby beds

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Speaker 2: were killed because of arrival. It was called Set Set

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Speaker 2: Set gang. All right, what this means is that the

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Speaker 2: women that were the girlfriends of the gang members got

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Speaker 2: into an argument with the women that were girlfriends of

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Speaker 2: the other gang members. I seem to call over some clothes. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so one gang throws a Molotov cocktail into the home

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Speaker 2: of the victims and says, let's fry them babies, and

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Speaker 2: they did. The babies were burned to death instantly. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Now that's not a up on the case. I don't

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Speaker 2: know what it is, but my point is leading up

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Speaker 2: to it is that the defense kept saying and the

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Speaker 2: trial there was no speedy child a mand This trial

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Speaker 2: was long, long down the road. I'm talking at lea

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Speaker 2: another year. They said I did not hand over a file,

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Speaker 2: and I said, I've given you every single thing I've got.

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Speaker 2: So I finally handed my whole file everything I had

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Speaker 2: to the judge. Guess what it was. They were right,

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Speaker 2: and I was right. There was one thin file that

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Speaker 2: the homicide cops, for whatever reason, inadvertently I don't know,

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Speaker 2: had not given to me. So there was a stack

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Speaker 2: of I think about twenty pages the defense didn't have

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Speaker 2: and I didn't have. So I remember taking the stand

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Speaker 2: and saying, I've handed over everything I've got. It went

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Speaker 2: that far. I actually had to take the stand, and

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Speaker 2: then we found out where the missing pages were, and

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Speaker 2: that was a real blow to me to be accused

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Speaker 2: of withholding information. I want to win, but I want

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Speaker 2: to win fair, and I want to right people behind bars,

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Speaker 2: and I want to win the fair way because to me,

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Speaker 2: prosecutors have the duty not only to seek justice, but

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Speaker 2: to do it ethically.

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Speaker 4: Yep.

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Speaker 2: The defense is not bound by that. So when you say,

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Speaker 2: y'all Carson and the state's got it. They've had it

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Speaker 2: all this time. I don't know that they've had it

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Speaker 2: all this time. There's still DNA results the state doesn't have.

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Speaker 3: Well, they collected it, and it's an opportunity for the defense.

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Speaker 2: You mean the cops collected it and hand it in

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Speaker 2: the evidence. The prosecutors did not collect any evidence.

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Speaker 3: Well, no, not directly, not correctly. That's what I was

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Speaker 3: going to tell you, is said, Look, in a case

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Speaker 3: like this where the defense is not entered a plea,

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Speaker 3: of course, plea for the defense. And what that means

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Speaker 3: is there's no reciprocity. The government has to turn over

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Speaker 3: everything it's god, but the defendant does not. So that's

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Speaker 3: an interesting wants to what's going on here.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about that for just one moment. And

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Speaker 2: Chris mcdonnah, you got to hear this, because one thing

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Speaker 2: the defense does have to hand over is notice of alibi.

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Speaker 2: Because in our jurisprudence system, which was brought over from

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Speaker 2: the common law of Great Britain, it's not trial by

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Speaker 2: ambush forever, the state has to hand over the evidence

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Speaker 2: to the defense. Not always true the other way around.

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Speaker 2: The defense doesn't always have to hand over everything to

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Speaker 2: the state. But if there's an alibi, the defense does

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Speaker 2: have to hand that over, so the state has a

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Speaker 2: right to investigate it to find out if it's a big,

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Speaker 2: fat lie. So get this, Chris mcdonnah Brian Coiberger's defense

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Speaker 2: hands over an alibi, but they won't say what the

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Speaker 2: alibi is. All they say is he likes to go

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Speaker 2: driving around eight at night alone. If that's not pervy enough,

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Speaker 2: what looking at everybody's windows? How many times did he

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Speaker 2: drive by the King Road murder scene that night according

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Speaker 2: to his cell phone or in the past according to

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Speaker 2: his cell phone conveely that night. I think he had

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Speaker 2: a cell phone on airplane motor turned off at the

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Speaker 2: time of the murders, but then it was quickly turned

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Speaker 2: back on for his circuitous route home. What kind of

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Speaker 2: an alibi is that, Chris McDonough speaking of having to

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Speaker 2: hand over evidence that you like to drive around late

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Speaker 2: at night by yourself.

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Speaker 4: Well that and Nancy, you've been on this from day

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Speaker 4: one in terms of really inside this guy's head. And

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Speaker 4: then the defense's positioning here that alibi in of itself

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Speaker 4: is going to be very problematic for them because I

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Speaker 4: think any you know, if we just applied common sense,

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Speaker 4: you know the fact that he now you know, presents

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Speaker 4: this alibi of well, you know, he's just out for

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Speaker 4: a nightly straw in his car. You know, of course

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Speaker 4: we all do that right at you know, three o'clock

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Speaker 4: in the morning, and he just happened to be driving

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Speaker 4: by that house twelve shepherd times, which.

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you what, Prince, if my husband, David Lynch

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Speaker 2: got up out of the bed and went for a

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Speaker 2: drive by himself at three am, I think my head

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Speaker 2: would blow off.

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Speaker 4: I agree.

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Speaker 2: My guess would be to begin up at five o'clock

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Speaker 2: in the morning and start feeding guinea pigs and cats

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Speaker 2: and dogs and grandmammies and twins and get everybody to

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Speaker 2: school in Oh he is not going for a drive

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Speaker 2: at three am and breathing in the fresh air. No, No,

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Speaker 2: go ahead, Yeah, I mean have do you go driving

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Speaker 2: in the middle of the night, Chris mcconno, because I'm

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Speaker 2: sure your wife would like to hear about that, do you.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, My wife would kill me. Literally. I would be

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Speaker 4: on the opposite side out a car.

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Speaker 2: Some you go driving around at three am in the morning,

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Speaker 2: what to get some nice freezing fresh air.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's an strange alibi because it's not.

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Speaker 4: Really an alibi.

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Speaker 3: All he's saying is I don't really know where I was,

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Speaker 3: which is not an alibi.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right. An alibi is I was here at

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Speaker 2: this time, and these are the witnesses. So it's totally yes.

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Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Greece.

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Speaker 2: Chris McDonough, you and I have gone to the scene

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Speaker 2: many many times. It's freezing cold, cold, The roads are treacherous.

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Speaker 2: Their home was on an elevated slant and very tricky.

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Speaker 2: You know, the streets leading up to their home, the apartment,

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Speaker 2: saw the student apartments, barely two cars can cross and

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Speaker 2: they're going up these slick streets with covered in ice.

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Speaker 2: So why is he driving around in sub zero tempts

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Speaker 2: at three o'clock in the morning on a treacherous road.

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Speaker 3: But he can't Ernie right, So he's got no money.

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Speaker 3: Where's he got the money for gas?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And to dovetail into what you're thinking, Nancy, the

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Speaker 4: only thing I can think, and this is, you know,

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Speaker 4: obviously just my opinion is either A they're going to

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Speaker 4: come up with some type of medical insomnia, you know,

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Speaker 4: connection through all the snow, problem.

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Speaker 2: Hold on, I got to write this down. Hold On,

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Speaker 2: I can see it coming that. Okay, okay, now what

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Speaker 2: did you say? Insomnia and what you know?

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Speaker 4: And they're going to connect it back to his condition,

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Speaker 4: uh you know, is the snow you know problem that

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Speaker 4: he was having, you know, a medical condition there, And

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Speaker 4: of course that opens up the timeline for the earlier

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Speaker 4: videos that have been floating around, you know, about an

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Speaker 4: hour before what the authorities have shed they believe is

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Speaker 4: the exact time the homicides go down.

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Speaker 2: Wait, wait, wait, wait you know. Hold on, Chris mcdona,

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Speaker 2: I know you've got three hundred homicides under your belt

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Speaker 2: and you're the star of the interview room and Del Carson,

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Speaker 2: I know your former FBI and you've written a book

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Speaker 2: and your high profile, all your blah blah blah. But

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Speaker 2: Jackie is waving in Sydney or waving a sign visual snow.

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Speaker 2: There it is the condition visual snow. So he's about driving, guys.

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Speaker 2: I feel a little bit guilty as I've recounted the

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Speaker 2: story they're going to sleep in here because I know

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Speaker 2: what I'm about to say. Oh here she goes again.

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Speaker 2: But when I drove that route, I swear and you

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Speaker 2: can ask I think I had Kelly with me. Illy,

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you were with me or not.

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Speaker 2: The night we drove that route that he took and

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Speaker 2: the oh, you couldn't see a thing. When a Simmy

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Speaker 2: would come toward me, I would have to just pull

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Speaker 2: off the road because I could not see anything. I've

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Speaker 2: got twenty twenty and twenty eighteen, and it was so dark.

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Speaker 2: All I could see were big lights coming straight at

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Speaker 2: the car. So I just pull off and wait. And

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Speaker 2: I'm usually a much more aggressive driver that said, Chris,

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Speaker 2: did I interrupt you? Or did I interrupt deal? Carson?

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Speaker 2: Is there?

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Speaker 4: No, You're fine, Nancia, And you know we're always honored

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Speaker 4: to be here as your guest, and you were so

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Speaker 4: right on target here right. One of the things I've

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Speaker 4: been thinking about, you know, knowing that both you and

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Speaker 4: I have driven it, and this idea of Okay, why

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Speaker 4: are they going so far to say in the motion

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Speaker 4: that well, we'll figure out this alibi on the state's

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Speaker 4: witnesses through questioning right? Well, I'm thinking, well, how is

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Speaker 4: that them to play here? And the only thing I

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Speaker 4: can think of is this medical condition. But I could

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Speaker 4: be one hundred percent wrong.

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Speaker 2: However, that are you talking about insomnia? Because what the

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Speaker 2: perfect cure for insomnia you can't go to sleep is

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Speaker 2: to go out in the sub zero call Champs with

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Speaker 2: your windows down and the snow that's supposed to get

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Speaker 2: you sleepy.

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Speaker 4: Exactly. Yeah, that's kind of where I'm going in my head.

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Speaker 4: But that in of itself, if you take that night

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Speaker 4: for an example of all the activity, you know, just

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Speaker 4: hours before this tragedy goes down, there are kids everywhere

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Speaker 4: from the college. I mean, we know about the police

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Speaker 4: contact with the alcohol and that, and then there's these

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Speaker 4: videos that have surfaced where they're showing the cars, you know,

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Speaker 4: various cars pulling up and some people believing that's them.

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Speaker 4: The authorities haven't released that yet, but what that does

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Speaker 4: is it opens up a narrative, and you know this

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Speaker 4: more than anybody, for the fence to start saying some

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Speaker 4: other dude, some.

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Speaker 2: Others saw defense, some other dude did it, oh.

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Speaker 4: Yep, And then they create their theme around it and

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Speaker 4: they start projecting it into the public through these motions

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Speaker 4: and see what sticks. I think that's what's been going

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Speaker 4: on here. And you've been on top of this, you know,

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Speaker 4: from the from the beginning. We've talked about this multiple times.

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Speaker 2: Dale, Carson, Chris mc donna, and I are dragging you

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Speaker 2: by your toenails. You can bring your wife, just bring everybody,

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Speaker 2: the cat, the dog, to everybody. You've got to go

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Speaker 2: out there and you've got to wait like we did

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Speaker 2: around midnight and take that route that he took about

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Speaker 2: a fortese of sid Wasn't it a forty five minute

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Speaker 2: route from the murder scene to his apartment and it's

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Speaker 2: actually about a nine to twelve minute drive. He was

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Speaker 2: out on this long, circuitous route getting himself as far

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Speaker 2: away from the murder scene as possible home. It was

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Speaker 2: like his how his apartment at Pullman is here, the

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Speaker 2: murder scene is here, So he goes all the way

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Speaker 2: around in the dark, no street lights to right here

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Speaker 2: instead of going boop, That's that's what happened. Now right there.

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Speaker 2: A jury is going to say, no way.

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Speaker 3: That's exactly right, that's exactly right, Nancia. Jury is going

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Speaker 3: to begin with this case with him surveilling in some

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Speaker 3: way or another that house where these young gals lived,

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Speaker 3: and then they're going to bring it right up to

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Speaker 3: the very end. Where is that sheet for the knife?

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Speaker 3: Is found with his DNA on it and a reasonable

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Speaker 3: jury is going to find him guilty. Clearly, they want

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Speaker 3: to postpone this trial as long as they can in

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Speaker 3: order for the hubbub if you will, to die down,

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Speaker 3: which it's not gonna because this is such a massive

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Speaker 3: killing in a rural area. There are forty four counties

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Speaker 3: in Idaho. They don't even have a public defender's office

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Speaker 3: per se. What they do is they engage the services

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Speaker 3: of attorneys who are in the areas because it's so

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Speaker 3: rural and there are different rules for every one of

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Speaker 3: those counties, so they don't have to have depositions day

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Speaker 3: they can.

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Speaker 2: Now, before you go off on depositions, isn't it true?

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Speaker 2: They never planned to try this case within this speedy

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Speaker 2: trial period at all. This is just to acrue to

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Speaker 2: drive this take crazy because I can tell you this much, Dale,

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Speaker 2: And I don't know if this happened to you, Chris,

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Speaker 2: when you would be a witness on the stand as

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Speaker 2: homicide detective. But I don't care if it was a shoplifting,

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Speaker 2: I don't care if it's a theft by receiving, if

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Speaker 2: somebody hit me with a speedy they're going out first.

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Speaker 2: I mean Monday morning, as quickly as I can put

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Speaker 2: that case together. And then when I do get a conviction,

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Speaker 2: I'm lucky enough to get a conviction, then they're getting

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Speaker 2: the max because.

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Speaker 3: Look, but speedy trial issue, at least from the public

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Speaker 3: the defense side, is this, you set it for speedy

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Speaker 3: trial when you know the state has to change its

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Speaker 3: behavior in order to give you a reduced sentence. That

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Speaker 3: was never going to happen in this case. And so

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Speaker 3: when you request speedy the government knows that you think

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Speaker 3: your client is provably innocent, and that's never been the

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Speaker 3: case here. So you know it was a tool.

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Speaker 2: Just a way to screw with the state. Yeah, they

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Speaker 2: never intended. And the outcome is if the state didn't

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Speaker 2: try it on time, there would be an automatic acquittal

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Speaker 2: and there is no retrial that jeopardy attaches.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but if the jury panels not born in jeopardy

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Speaker 3: doesn't attach.

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Speaker 2: Guys, I was just handed this. It's highly complicated and

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Speaker 2: it's very tech oriented. It's perfect. Sidney drew this, Okay,

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Speaker 2: ten minutes. I love holding up any type of a

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Speaker 2: visual apartment to house. As I mentioned earlier, I thought

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Speaker 2: it was not it's ten minutes from the apartment to

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Speaker 2: the house. But the route he took that night is

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Speaker 2: from the house twenty minutes this way, twenty minutes that way.

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Speaker 2: In twenty minutes. It wasn't forty five sending your right,

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Speaker 2: It was more like an hour. He goes for an

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Speaker 2: hour drive. And how is he going to explain that

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Speaker 2: to a jury? I mean that just starts with Now, okay,

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Speaker 2: let's talk about what's going to happen to court. And again,

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Speaker 2: Chris mcdonnet dale please jump in.

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Speaker 4: Hey, Nancy, can we talk want to just go back

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Speaker 4: just for a second on the drive.

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Speaker 2: Yes, didn't he.

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Speaker 4: Show up that morning as well?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 4: Isn't there wasn't there evidence that they believed he potentially

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Speaker 4: went back, and there was reports of his vehicle in

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Speaker 4: the area that morning.

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Speaker 2: That's right, he went back, and it reminds you of

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Speaker 2: Scott Peterson going back after he murdered Lacy, his wife

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Speaker 2: and unborn child Connor. But go back and look out

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Speaker 2: of the San Francisco Bay and just look at it,

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Speaker 2: because there was a GPS tracker on his car, so

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Speaker 2: we know he went back over and over to look

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Speaker 2: out there. What was he looking to see? Her body

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Speaker 2: was going to pop up. But that's really common amongst

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Speaker 2: defendants is they go back to the scene to just

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Speaker 2: see what's going on.

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Speaker 3: They want to order you to live. It didn't mean

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Speaker 3: that's part of their conduct.

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Speaker 4: Typically, right, So how is this going to play into

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Speaker 4: the end?

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Speaker 3: Bundy did that. All of the major serial killers have

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Speaker 3: done that. And although we don't know that he is

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Speaker 3: a serial in the sense of having clearly click killed

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Speaker 3: other people previously, we do know that with a quad murder,

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Speaker 3: he certainly is a serial killer and he has all

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Speaker 3: of the we'll think about it. He is so in

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Speaker 3: the law enforcement that he tries to be a police officer,

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Speaker 3: to be a really well known, if you will, graduate

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Speaker 3: student in criminal justice. I mean, what other indications are

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Speaker 3: there that somebody's just involved terribly in law enforcement.

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Speaker 4: Yet he can't get into it.

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Speaker 3: Thank God.

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Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: There hasn't been a lot of discussion about this and

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Speaker 2: all because everyone is focused on the challenge to the

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Speaker 2: DNA on the knife sheath. And one thing I want

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Speaker 2: to point out, and I think you and I the

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Speaker 2: three of us have talked about this, maybe off camera.

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Speaker 2: They've got to have a way to fight that DNA.

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Speaker 2: It's his DNA on the knife sheath that he left

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Speaker 2: under the body of Maddie Mogen. His DNA, we believe,

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Speaker 2: is on the buckle the snap of that knife sheath.

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Speaker 2: Now they've got to come up with the way. They're

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Speaker 2: either going to say the DNA science is flawed, that

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Speaker 2: his DNA was there incidentally or accidentally, maybe he went

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Speaker 2: to a gun and knife show and opened up that

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Speaker 2: knife and left his DNA, or he can claim it

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Speaker 2: was planted. But think about it. The knife sheath was

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Speaker 2: collected from under Maddie's body before Brian Coburger became a suspect.

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Speaker 2: What I mean by that is significance. The knife sheath

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Speaker 2: was taken and handed over to the crime lab to

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Speaker 2: the scientists to try to find DNA or fingerprints, and

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Speaker 2: it was only weeks and weeks later that Brian Coburger

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Speaker 2: was ID So how could they have planted the DNA?

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Speaker 2: And it's very likely that some of the cops in

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Speaker 2: there processing the scene had on a shoulder camera body cam,

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Speaker 2: so there may even be video of when the knife

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Speaker 2: sheath was found. So just follow this through to its

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Speaker 2: logical conclusion. That means that someone would have to after

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Speaker 2: Coberger is named as a suspect, get his DNA, not

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Speaker 2: his father's DNA, but his DNA, and go to the

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Speaker 2: crime lab, get in to where they're holding all the evidence,

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Speaker 2: probably get someone to conspire with them and plant his

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Speaker 2: DNA Coburg's DNA on the knife sheet.

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Speaker 3: Nancy, that narrative is why you were a good prosecutor,

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Speaker 3: because that's exactly he's gonna tell the jury.

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Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, people love to hear about, oh, the

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Speaker 2: evidence was planted, but think about what it would have

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Speaker 2: required to plant his Coburger's DNA on that snap on

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Speaker 2: that sheet. That did not happen. Okay, so they got

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Speaker 2: to fall back on the other three attacks on the DNA.

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Speaker 2: But Jackie was holding up a sign and I agree,

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Speaker 2: because we're all focusing on the DNA and the unknown

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Speaker 2: male DNA that was found somewhere in the house. I

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Speaker 2: don't know it was in the kitchen, was it on

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Speaker 2: a doorknob, was it in a bathroom? Where was it?

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Speaker 2: Don't know? But they haven't been able to match that

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Speaker 2: other DNA to a single person. And we don't know

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Speaker 2: of any male DNA that was in the girl's bedrooms.

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Speaker 2: That said. No, one's been talking about the fact that

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Speaker 2: Coburger is fighting tooth and nail to keep cameras out

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Speaker 2: of the courtroom. To you, Chris McDonough, why do you

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Speaker 2: think Coburger doesn't want a camera in the courtroom?

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Speaker 4: Well, I think for him it's quite Frankly, I think

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Speaker 4: it's more about attorneys than it is for him. I

401
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Speaker 4: think he he probably wants them in there, but the

402
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Speaker 4: attorneys don't want them in there because they know that

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Speaker 4: the public will see what he is about through his

404
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Speaker 4: body language, not only how he reacts, you know, I

405
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Speaker 4: mean you you know, I can only imagine when you

406
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Speaker 4: would ask questions to a witness, to watch the defendant's reaction.

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Speaker 4: You know, Jerry's pay attention to that very closely, as

408
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Speaker 4: we all know. And you know, just to jump real

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Speaker 4: fast back to the DNA gap, I E. You know,

410
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Speaker 4: somebody planted it, i e. Law enforcement and or the government.

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Speaker 4: But it also if we were to try to think

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Speaker 4: through this a little bit deeper with the some other

413
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Speaker 4: dude theory, then they would have to find somebody that

414
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Speaker 4: had a direct correlated link to Covert somehow put that

415
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Speaker 4: sheet in his hand and during that time of that relationship,

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Speaker 4: and then of course that individual would be the suspect

417
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Speaker 4: who planted it up into that bedroom. And what's interesting

418
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Speaker 4: here is the fact that it's in the bedroom, and

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Speaker 4: that is a very personal approach. And Coberger would be

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Speaker 4: the most logical individual through his personality type and through

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Speaker 4: obviously all of the forensic diagnosis of this guy psychological. Yeah,

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00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:38,160
Speaker 4: go ahead, remember following on that, Remember they were killed

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Speaker 4: with a.

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Speaker 3: Knife, a seat knife.

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Speaker 4: Probably, Yeah, well, and that's a very personal instrument, right, dell.

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Speaker 2: Y Again, Sydney and Jackie are waving frantically at me,

427
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Speaker 2: and they're right again. There is Coburgers and the state

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Speaker 2: has this purchase of the night a knife and a

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Speaker 2: sheep exactly like the one the sheet that was found.

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Speaker 2: They goes with the knife seven months before the murders.

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Speaker 2: He buys a knife and a sheath and it looks

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Speaker 2: just like the sheath found there with the matching knife.

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Speaker 2: The knife has never been recovered. So my question would be,

434
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Speaker 2: so where's that knife and that knife sheath? If this

435
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 2: isn't it, then where is it exactly?

436
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 4: And that's a very high bar that they're going to

437
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 4: have to try to get over just that piece alone.

438
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 2: Hey, listen to this, guys, the defense is I bet

439
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 2: they don't. They do not like cameras exclusively looking at

440
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 2: their client. And I just want to remind everybody of something.

441
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 2: And we went round and round about this when I

442
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 2: took a job at Court TV with the late great

443
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 2: Johnny Cochrane, God rest his soul. I didn't agree with

444
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 2: the thing he ever said, But man, he could win

445
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 2: a case. Jerry's love him, and I can see why,

446
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 2: just you know that kind of person. They walk in

447
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 2: the room and everybody wants to be with them. They's just,

448
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 2: you know, charismatic. Always with every case the defense did

449
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 2: not want cameras in the courtroom. Well, the majority of

450
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 2: the case is why and why did Court TV think

451
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 2: there should be cameras in the courtroom? And our Constitution,

452
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 2: the Founding Fathers there's something called the minutes. The minutes

453
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 2: are what's being said say on the floor in the

454
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 2: room when statutes are being passed, and our Constitution calls

455
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 2: for open courtrooms. And in the minutes, the Founding Fathers said,

456
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,719
Speaker 2: we want the courthouses to be as big as it

457
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 2: takes for the whole community to watch a trial. We

458
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 2: are not Russia, we are not China, where proceedings happen

459
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 2: in secret. We're not being run by the Taliban, who

460
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 2: are jury, judge and executioner. Our proceedings are in the

461
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 2: open and in our world. That means we all see

462
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 2: justice unfold. Here, where Del Carson is, where Chris McDonough is,

463
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 2: we can watch justice unfold. That's what the founding fathers said.

464
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 2: And if the defense doesn't like it, well they shouldn't

465
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 2: done the crime.

466
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 3: Well. Listen, when you look at Brian Colbert's photographs lately,

467
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 3: he's been smiling. Now, what person charged with a quadrupful

468
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 3: homicide would be smiling in any event during the course

469
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 3: of any court appearance. You'd be absolutely mortified. But not

470
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 3: Brian Coberger. Why is that? And that's a question for

471
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 3: the psychologists, But I suspect it's because he's enjoying himself.

472
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I asked the psychologist that same question Dale,

473
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 4: and his answer was because he's the punisher.

474
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 3: Yeah. All right, fair enough, guys.

475
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 2: We have our eyes on the courtroom as these proceedings

476
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 2: go forward, and we pray for justice. Dale Carson, high

477
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 2: profile lawyer joining that out of Jacksonville, former FBI, former cop,

478
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 2: Chris McDonough, former homicide detective director Cole case Foundation, star

479
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 2: of YouTube's The Interview Room. You know we're laughing at

480
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 2: certain points, but I can tell you some people that

481
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 2: aren't laughing. The families of Ethan Chapin, Xana Kernodle, Madison

482
00:30:55,440 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 2: Mogan aka Maddie, and Kelley gonsold Us because they will

483
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 2: never be at home for another Christmas, another party, another birthday,

484
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 2: another mother's day. It's all over. They are never to

485
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 2: be seen on this earth again, and their killer must

486
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 2: be brought to justice. Goodbye, Sai