WEBVTT - Betrayal Weekly: EP 14 - Lorena

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<v Speaker 1>As a little girl. You don't say, oh my gosh,

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<v Speaker 1>I can't wait to grow up and marry a guy

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<v Speaker 1>who cheats on me and makes me feel like the

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<v Speaker 1>only way I can leave is if I'm going to

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<v Speaker 1>be homeless in a ditch.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about

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<v Speaker 2>the people we trust the most and the deceptions that

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<v Speaker 2>change everything. Lorena is a Midwestern mom who's never met

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<v Speaker 2>a stranger. When she meets someone, she wants to really connect.

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<v Speaker 1>If you want to sit there and talk about the

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<v Speaker 1>blue sky and the green grass, please go find somebody else,

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<v Speaker 1>because I don't have time for that. You want to

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<v Speaker 1>tell me who you are and what you want to

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<v Speaker 1>be all over that.

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<v Speaker 2>She came to the interview with an extra large iced

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<v Speaker 2>coffee in hand and the energy level to match.

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<v Speaker 1>Caffeine. Caffeine, let's a caffeine? Does stall make it? I

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<v Speaker 1>have eleven children and I have four grandkids. I'm busy

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<v Speaker 1>eleven children.

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<v Speaker 2>She was eighteen when she had her first and forty

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<v Speaker 2>when she had her last. In that time, she didn't

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<v Speaker 2>go two years without being pregnant. How did she get

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<v Speaker 2>here with eleven kids? While she belonged to a conservative

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<v Speaker 2>Baptist church. In her community, big families were the norm,

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<v Speaker 2>and she loved motherhood. But today she sees that she

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<v Speaker 2>was a frog in boiling water. She didn't realize the

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<v Speaker 2>temperature was being turned up until it was too late.

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<v Speaker 2>Lorena was raised by a single mother, and their family

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<v Speaker 2>moved nearly every year. She always envied her friends who

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<v Speaker 2>had this stability she didn't seem to have.

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<v Speaker 1>I really really wanted the nuclear family. I really wanted. Well, look,

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<v Speaker 1>it's the mom, and it's the dad, and it's some kids.

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<v Speaker 2>Her mom worked in a hospital and would bring Lorena

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<v Speaker 2>along with her sometimes to sit in the waiting room.

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<v Speaker 2>While she was there. She fantasized about a career in medicine,

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<v Speaker 2>working with premature babies.

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to be a doctor. I actually wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>be a neonatologist.

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<v Speaker 2>But as she got older and became a teenager, she

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<v Speaker 2>and her mom started butting heads. She felt like her

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<v Speaker 2>mom didn't have time for her, so Lorena started to

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<v Speaker 2>do exactly what she wanted. When she was sixteen, she

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<v Speaker 2>ran away from home. She says it wasn't as dramatic

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<v Speaker 2>as it sounds. She just went to a friend's house.

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<v Speaker 2>When her mom found her, she'd been smoking weed, and

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<v Speaker 2>her mom did something drastic.

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<v Speaker 1>My mother figured out that she could put me in

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<v Speaker 1>direct treatment centers. It was almost like a little mini prison.

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<v Speaker 2>She went to three. The first wooding keeper because they

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<v Speaker 2>found out that she wasn't struggling with any drug addiction.

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<v Speaker 2>The second was a psychiatric hospital. They assessed her and

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<v Speaker 2>kept her there for a few weeks before they determined

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<v Speaker 2>that she didn't need.

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<v Speaker 1>To be hospitalized, and so she found another place. And

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<v Speaker 1>the third place she found they put everyone there on

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<v Speaker 1>eight hundred milligrams of lithium twice a day, whether you

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<v Speaker 1>needed it or not.

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<v Speaker 2>As soon as she turned eighteen, she got out of

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<v Speaker 2>there and moved out of the state with her boyfriend.

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<v Speaker 2>Within a few months, she found out that she was pregnant.

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<v Speaker 1>From the very moment I took that pregnancy test and

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<v Speaker 1>saw that positive line, I was so excited. I just

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<v Speaker 1>was so incredibly amazed that I could be a mall.

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<v Speaker 2>But she experienced deception early on in that relationship. I

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<v Speaker 2>was twenty He told me he was twenty five. I

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<v Speaker 2>find out that he lied to me, he's thirty five.

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<v Speaker 2>I found his driver's license thirty five.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a lot of age difference. You're not on equal grounds.

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<v Speaker 1>There's not equal footing.

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<v Speaker 2>So she did what she'd always done growing up, figured

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<v Speaker 2>life out by herself. She left him, took the baby,

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<v Speaker 2>and moved back to her home state, which we're not

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<v Speaker 2>naming here to protect her privacy. And back home, she

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<v Speaker 2>got herself into college. While she was in school, she

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<v Speaker 2>had another baby. She was excited to have a second,

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<v Speaker 2>but she didn't want a long term relationship with the father.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm in college. I'm mostly making a's couple of bees

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<v Speaker 1>there except twenty four I had my second child. I

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<v Speaker 1>was in a glass that I really shouldn't have been in,

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<v Speaker 1>and I made a.

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<v Speaker 2>C Now that she had two young children that she

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<v Speaker 2>was raising alone, going to medical school seemed unreal life stick,

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<v Speaker 2>so she changed her plans and decided to get her

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<v Speaker 2>business degree. She began studying to become an accountant.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm in a business class and I see the sky

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<v Speaker 1>across the room and I'm like, oh my gosh, he

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<v Speaker 1>was strikingly handsome, well dressed, and the smartest one in

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<v Speaker 1>the class. He asks me if I want to study,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm like, he is setting the standard on all

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<v Speaker 1>the tests and he's wanting to study with me, and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, yeah, I love that. And so we make

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<v Speaker 1>plans and when he comes over, we don't study.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going to call him Peter. So she and Peter

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<v Speaker 2>stayed up all night talking.

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<v Speaker 1>Anyway, we're talking and and he's just listening to me.

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<v Speaker 1>He left somewhere between four and six am.

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<v Speaker 3>He kissed me, and then he left the next day,

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<v Speaker 3>he called her. He called me right after he got

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<v Speaker 3>out for four. Hey, I was just wanting to come

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<v Speaker 3>by and see you.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>He made her feel important. They started planning playdates with

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<v Speaker 2>her two young kids and movie nights at her apartment.

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<v Speaker 1>And I loved the way he made me feel. He

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<v Speaker 1>made me feel seen and heard. He made me feel

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<v Speaker 1>like I was the smart one. And I don't think

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<v Speaker 1>that I had felt like some man had ever been

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<v Speaker 1>that interested in me before.

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<v Speaker 2>Things were moving quickly. After just a few dates, they

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<v Speaker 2>became inseparable.

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<v Speaker 1>With most of my past relationships, they were like easing

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<v Speaker 1>into relationships, you know, you talk a little bit. But

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<v Speaker 1>with him, we never stopped seeing one another.

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<v Speaker 2>She was into him, but Lorena had two small children

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<v Speaker 2>to protect. She didn't want them to get attached to Peter.

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<v Speaker 2>So three months into their relationship, she said she couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>continue unless he was serious.

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<v Speaker 1>And at that point in time, he told me he

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<v Speaker 1>loved me and he wanted to pursue the relationship with

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<v Speaker 1>the possibility of marriage, which I was like what.

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<v Speaker 2>A few months after that, Lorena went to the doctor

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<v Speaker 2>for a routine physical.

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<v Speaker 1>I get a phone call and they tell me I'm pregnant.

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<v Speaker 1>So Peter came over that night and I told him,

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<v Speaker 1>and I was so scared. I remember we were standing

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<v Speaker 1>in the kitchen and he picked me up, put me

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<v Speaker 1>on the counter, and looked in my eyes and said, please, please,

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<v Speaker 1>will you marry me. I don't want our child to

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<v Speaker 1>not have a father. And I was like, yeah, yes

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<v Speaker 1>I will.

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<v Speaker 2>Peter adopted her two younger children, and now, as a

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<v Speaker 2>mom of three and a wife, getting her college degree

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<v Speaker 2>became even more difficult.

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<v Speaker 1>I had basically taken that semester off in the fall.

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<v Speaker 1>I think I took one class and passed it, and

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<v Speaker 1>then in the spring he said, well, how about you

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<v Speaker 1>just stay home with the kids. And I'm like, well,

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<v Speaker 1>that's really thoughtful. So I decided, hey, let's try that.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm so happy to be at home with my kids

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<v Speaker 1>because I have a ever had this opportunity to just

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<v Speaker 1>be a full time long All of.

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<v Speaker 2>A sudden, she had the nuclear family she'd always wanted,

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<v Speaker 2>and Peter promised he would be their provider while she

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<v Speaker 2>paused her education. He excelled in his.

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<v Speaker 1>His professor had told him, you're very smart. If you

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<v Speaker 1>ever decided to go back and get your master's degree,

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<v Speaker 1>don't sell yourself short. Go to an Ivy League school

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<v Speaker 1>you can get in.

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<v Speaker 2>So Peter started applying to MBA programs, and it turned

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<v Speaker 2>out his professor was right. He was accepted into one

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<v Speaker 2>of the top three business schools in the country, and

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<v Speaker 2>the family moved to the Northeast for his education. Alone

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<v Speaker 2>in a new city with her kids, Peter encouraged the

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<v Speaker 2>family to start going to church.

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<v Speaker 1>His mother was very religious. She was Pentecostal, and he

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<v Speaker 1>wanted me to go to church. So I went, and

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<v Speaker 1>you know what I found God, I Jesus right there.

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<v Speaker 2>She hadn't grown up religious, but the church became a

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<v Speaker 2>home away from home. When Peter graduated from his MBA,

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<v Speaker 2>Lorena was there at his graduation with their family and

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<v Speaker 2>now five children. He even graduated with a high paying

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<v Speaker 2>job offer to make it even better. The job was

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<v Speaker 2>close to their home state, and.

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<v Speaker 1>This is like the biggest energy company. It's huge, and

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<v Speaker 1>he's got a good job there.

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<v Speaker 2>Back in the Heartland with her five kids and her

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<v Speaker 2>ivy league husband, Lorena had a dream life. She and

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<v Speaker 2>Peter started looking for a new church. That's when they found.

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<v Speaker 1>This really cool organization IBLP, Bill Gothard's Institute in Basic

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<v Speaker 1>Life Principles. Oh, come here and learn about our program,

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<v Speaker 1>and it will inspire you and grow you as a parent,

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<v Speaker 1>give you kind of an idea of how to live.

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<v Speaker 4>A better life, how to be a better mother, how

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<v Speaker 4>to be a better father, a better husband, a better wife.

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<v Speaker 2>They gave the family workbooks for homeschooling their kids and

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<v Speaker 2>guides to parenting. They provided free meals and childcare. It

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<v Speaker 2>all came with a conservative, fundamentalist ideology.

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<v Speaker 1>I bought into that. Peter bought into that. We bought

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<v Speaker 1>into that.

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<v Speaker 2>If you've heard of the Dougger family and their reality

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<v Speaker 2>TV show Nineteen Kids Encounting, you've probably heard of IBLP.

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<v Speaker 2>The church and the Douggers were featured in the documentary

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<v Speaker 2>Shiny Happy People that came out in twenty twenty three.

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<v Speaker 2>The Dougger's religion promotes having as many children as physically possible,

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<v Speaker 2>and Peter certainly believed in that. At first, IBLP was

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<v Speaker 2>a culture shock for Lorena, especially what they expected women

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<v Speaker 2>to wear.

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<v Speaker 1>Like the Duggers like what they have. The women they

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<v Speaker 1>are wearing, every single one was in what they call

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<v Speaker 1>a jumper or a long dress that looked like it

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<v Speaker 1>came out of the eighteen hundreds.

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<v Speaker 2>But Peter thought it was a good example for their daughters.

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<v Speaker 2>He liked the modesty.

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<v Speaker 1>He's like, well, I really like for you guys to

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<v Speaker 1>be dressed like this. It's more modest, and we're setting

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<v Speaker 1>a standard here in our house. And it did not

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<v Speaker 1>take long before I conformed and wore what everyone else wore.

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<v Speaker 2>The church had strong beliefs about gender roles in the household.

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<v Speaker 1>Women cannot be over men. Men are the umbrella of protection.

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<v Speaker 1>The women were there to make the food and to

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<v Speaker 1>keep the kids quiet.

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<v Speaker 2>And the most important principle, allow God to dictate the

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<v Speaker 2>amount of children you have. So she and Peter had

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<v Speaker 2>another and another.

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<v Speaker 1>Sex was every day, and sometimes it would be twice

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<v Speaker 1>a day unless he was traveling clearly, or we had

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<v Speaker 1>just had a baby, and then it was We'd wait

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<v Speaker 1>two weeks.

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<v Speaker 2>All the while Lorena was doing the childcare on her own.

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<v Speaker 2>Peter would never change diapers. I think with number three

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<v Speaker 2>he might have changed ten diapers, But then after that,

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<v Speaker 2>with babies four through eleven, I would say that he

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<v Speaker 2>probably changed each one of them, maybe twice, and there

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<v Speaker 2>may have been a couple that he never changed at all.

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<v Speaker 2>She understood that their religion had conservative beliefs about gender roles,

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<v Speaker 2>but deep down she hoped that he would do more,

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<v Speaker 2>especially when it came to the kids.

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<v Speaker 1>I thought that the church was going to help him

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<v Speaker 1>to be a better husband and a better father. Instead,

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<v Speaker 1>it helped him hide things better.

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<v Speaker 2>One night, as Lorena and Peter were going to.

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<v Speaker 1>Bed, he was kind of dozing and I was striking

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<v Speaker 1>his head and I was like, Peter, I love you

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<v Speaker 1>so much, and he said I love you too, Crystal.

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, what what did you just call me?

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<v Speaker 2>Lorena quickly fell into a religious community that promised to

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<v Speaker 2>help her with childcare, marriage, and parenting, and the church

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<v Speaker 2>wanted families to have as many children as possible. By now,

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<v Speaker 2>Lorena had seven children with her husband and Peter. One night,

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<v Speaker 2>she was taken aback when her husband called her by

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<v Speaker 2>the wrong name Crystal.

0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:09.320
<v Speaker 1>I was like, what did you just call me?

0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:11.400
<v Speaker 2>Who's Crystal?

0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:15.400
<v Speaker 1>And he shot out of it, shot up. He's like,

0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:17.720
<v Speaker 1>I didn't say that. I don't know who Crystal. I

0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:19.360
<v Speaker 1>don't know what Christal, I don't even know what Crystal.

0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:20.320
<v Speaker 1>What are you talking about?

0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:25.280
<v Speaker 2>He blamed the mistake on sleep deprivation, and it made sense.

0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:28.720
<v Speaker 2>After all, he was constantly working.

0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:34.000
<v Speaker 1>His schedule was six am to eight pm, So what's

0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:37.200
<v Speaker 1>that fourteen hours a day. That's Monday through Friday and

0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.920
<v Speaker 1>then Saturday and Sunday. He'd get called in frequently. We'd

0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:42.560
<v Speaker 1>get out of church and he'd be like, oh, the

0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:43.840
<v Speaker 1>office called, I gotta go.

0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:49.240
<v Speaker 2>Even though he was working NonStop and made a great salary,

0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:52.400
<v Speaker 2>their money got tighter and tighter every year.

0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.320
<v Speaker 1>Christmas came and I remember asking him, can I please

0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:59.600
<v Speaker 1>just spend seven dollars on each kid? Seven dollars a piece?

0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:02.240
<v Speaker 1>And he was like, we don't have any money at

0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:05.280
<v Speaker 1>all left. I'm like, where did all the money go?

0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:08.880
<v Speaker 2>Lorena assumed it was the financial strain of being a

0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.760
<v Speaker 2>family of nine.

0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:15.160
<v Speaker 1>So I made everyone homemade gifts that year. I never

0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:16.200
<v Speaker 1>putt he got one gift.

0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:20.600
<v Speaker 2>Despite money being tight, she relied on Peter to be

0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:23.880
<v Speaker 2>the financial expert in the family. After all, he had

0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:27.040
<v Speaker 2>an MBA from a top three business school. He printed

0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:29.800
<v Speaker 2>out spreadsheets with their budgets and gave Lorena a weekly

0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:31.640
<v Speaker 2>allowance for her and the kids.

0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:34.400
<v Speaker 1>I keep telling myself, it's going to get better. It's

0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:36.520
<v Speaker 1>going to get better, because as sure as heck couldn't

0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:37.320
<v Speaker 1>have gotten worse.

0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:42.960
<v Speaker 2>Right, she was wrong about that. At one point, Lorena

0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:46.720
<v Speaker 2>tried to investigate what was going on financially. She checked

0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:50.040
<v Speaker 2>on the bank accounts, wanting to understand their expenses and

0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:55.200
<v Speaker 2>find opportunities to save. But Peter drew a firm boundary.

0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:58.960
<v Speaker 1>And he said, if you look at this bank account again,

0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:02.120
<v Speaker 1>I will cut you off and you will not be

0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:04.320
<v Speaker 1>able to see any finances.

0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:09.240
<v Speaker 2>After her eighth baby, she had serious health complications. While

0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:12.360
<v Speaker 2>they were in the hospital, the doctor pulled them both aside.

0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:16.520
<v Speaker 1>The doctor says, listen, I know you have eight kids,

0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:19.639
<v Speaker 1>and I know that you kind of have your beliefs

0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:22.480
<v Speaker 1>on that and whatever, but in the best interest of

0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:26.639
<v Speaker 1>your health, you need to put off having any more kids.

0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:29.560
<v Speaker 1>Peter looked at him and said we're not going to

0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:33.439
<v Speaker 1>do that. We believe in letting the Lord give us

0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:36.119
<v Speaker 1>as many kids as we want. That's what we're gonna do.

0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:43.840
<v Speaker 1>After my eighth child was born, I was in an

0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:47.600
<v Speaker 1>immense amount of pain. I could not even hold my baby,

0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:52.200
<v Speaker 1>let alone feed him. While I'm healing from all of this,

0:17:52.359 --> 0:18:00.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm not healthy, and I get pregnant with baby number nine.

0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:04.919
<v Speaker 2>As their family continued to grow, so did their financial problems.

0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:08.800
<v Speaker 1>So at this point in time, he had a bankruptcy

0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:13.399
<v Speaker 1>on his record, and he owed back Texas to the

0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:17.199
<v Speaker 1>state we lived in. I know that he makes a

0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:22.760
<v Speaker 1>good six figure salary, but I'm getting an eighth maybe

0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:26.800
<v Speaker 1>not even that much, a tenth of it to feed

0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:29.040
<v Speaker 1>and clothe the kids.

0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:33.719
<v Speaker 2>Lorena couldn't understand it. Peter explained that it was the

0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:37.480
<v Speaker 2>expenses of the kids and the family that were bankrupting them.

0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:42.520
<v Speaker 2>In an attempt to salvage their finances, they decided to

0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:47.280
<v Speaker 2>downsize to a smaller house, and Peter found a new job.

0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:52.159
<v Speaker 1>And at some point in time they started requiring him

0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:55.919
<v Speaker 1>to travel. So here are the kids and I in

0:18:56.080 --> 0:19:00.399
<v Speaker 1>this dumpy house that he's never put much into. It

0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:04.480
<v Speaker 1>was a very old falling apart dilapidated, two bedroom, one

0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:10.159
<v Speaker 1>bath for eleven people. It does have running water, but

0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:16.200
<v Speaker 1>the septic system is a barrel.

0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:19.639
<v Speaker 2>Lorena rose to the challenge.

0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:22.720
<v Speaker 1>I can squeeze blood from a turnip. Okay, I can

0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:25.960
<v Speaker 1>show you how. My oldest son, at one point in

0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:29.720
<v Speaker 1>time came to me and said, Mom, that makes a

0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:32.119
<v Speaker 1>good six figure salary.

0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:32.920
<v Speaker 2>Why are you.

0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:36.199
<v Speaker 1>Living the way you're living? And I was like, we

0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:36.880
<v Speaker 1>spend it all.

0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:40.480
<v Speaker 2>They relied on the church as much as they could.

0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:44.439
<v Speaker 2>One summer in twenty fifteen, they took the whole family

0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:46.719
<v Speaker 2>to an IBLP conference.

0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:54.280
<v Speaker 1>And the speakers that year were the Duggars. This was

0:19:54.920 --> 0:20:01.679
<v Speaker 1>ry after their oldest son had gotten in trouble with

0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:03.240
<v Speaker 1>Ashley Madison.

0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:08.159
<v Speaker 2>Ashley Madison is an online dating platform specifically for married people.

0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:11.719
<v Speaker 2>Their slogan is life is Short, Have an Affair, And

0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:15.240
<v Speaker 2>back in twenty fifteen, their user database had just been hacked.

0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:19.680
<v Speaker 2>All their users' emails were now public and available online

0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:21.920
<v Speaker 2>for anyone to see.

0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:25.600
<v Speaker 1>Missus Dugger was talking about how you could go on

0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:32.440
<v Speaker 1>to some website and look up people's email addresses, and

0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:40.640
<v Speaker 1>something just clicked in me. So right then and there

0:20:41.080 --> 0:20:44.800
<v Speaker 1>we're in the middle of this conference, and I was like, oh,

0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:49.080
<v Speaker 1>I need to go feed the baby. I go outside

0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:52.520
<v Speaker 1>and I'm looking on my phone and I look up

0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:56.399
<v Speaker 1>one of his email addresses and it shows that he

0:20:56.480 --> 0:21:02.720
<v Speaker 1>has an Ashley Madison account, and I nearly threw up.

0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:04.959
<v Speaker 1>I couldn't believe it.

0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:07.600
<v Speaker 2>She decided to confront him that night.

0:21:09.400 --> 0:21:13.840
<v Speaker 1>I said, this is what I found, and he was like,

0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:17.800
<v Speaker 1>that's not me. That email must have been hacked. Oh look,

0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:20.240
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to delete this whole email. Just get rid

0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:22.680
<v Speaker 1>of the email completely, so that you believe me. Blah

0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:26.320
<v Speaker 1>blah blah, blah blah blah. And so it was enough

0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:29.840
<v Speaker 1>to go Okay, Well maybe he did because at this

0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:34.960
<v Speaker 1>point in time I believed him because I really had

0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:38.480
<v Speaker 1>no other options. I had no other place to go.

0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:42.720
<v Speaker 1>My mantra is setting it. It's going to get better,

0:21:43.359 --> 0:21:44.320
<v Speaker 1>It's going to get better.

0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:49.359
<v Speaker 2>She had nine kids. Lorena was independent, but raising a

0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:53.240
<v Speaker 2>family in a household of this size going in alone

0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:56.479
<v Speaker 2>was far too scary to think about. But the truth

0:21:56.680 --> 0:21:59.159
<v Speaker 2>was she had been alone for a while.

0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:05.760
<v Speaker 1>He was gone, having to travel for quote unquote work

0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:12.159
<v Speaker 1>at least one week out of the month, sometimes it

0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:16.880
<v Speaker 1>would be two. So I was becoming more and more

0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:24.400
<v Speaker 1>accustomed to him not being there. September twenty first, twenty one,

0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:28.720
<v Speaker 1>Peter was on another trip, because that's what he did.

0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:33.960
<v Speaker 1>I had decided to take my kids to our state fair.

0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:37.719
<v Speaker 1>On the way out to the car, I passed by

0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:38.359
<v Speaker 1>this box.

0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:41.439
<v Speaker 2>It was just a shoe box of old papers that

0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:44.359
<v Speaker 2>had been floating around Peter's car for the past few months.

0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:48.359
<v Speaker 2>She assumed it was just some of Peter's work documents.

0:22:48.840 --> 0:22:51.359
<v Speaker 1>Nobody looked in it because it's work stuff. Why would you,

0:22:51.440 --> 0:22:53.560
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I'm not interested in this work stuff. Okay,

0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:56.879
<v Speaker 1>so nobody looked in it. I must have walked past

0:22:56.920 --> 0:23:03.199
<v Speaker 1>that box twenty times, but on this day, she was curious.

0:23:03.800 --> 0:23:06.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna look through it. I'm just gonna look through it.

0:23:07.880 --> 0:23:10.479
<v Speaker 1>I'm looking through and I'm seeing all these folders, and

0:23:10.560 --> 0:23:15.560
<v Speaker 1>I see one envelope full of birthday cards, and so

0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:19.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm going through and I see this one and on

0:23:19.320 --> 0:23:25.639
<v Speaker 1>the outside of it it's labeled Poppy, like Pa p

0:23:25.920 --> 0:23:31.320
<v Speaker 1>I I'm like, okay. I open up the envelope and

0:23:31.320 --> 0:23:36.520
<v Speaker 1>in it is a card and it says, dear Poppy Dot,

0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:41.920
<v Speaker 1>I hope you like the travel book I made you.

0:23:43.240 --> 0:23:48.040
<v Speaker 1>I have enjoyed our travels together, and I hope to

0:23:48.080 --> 0:23:57.439
<v Speaker 1>have many more with you, Love, Princess Buttercup. At this point,

0:23:57.680 --> 0:24:01.920
<v Speaker 1>my blood head ran cold, my hands are trembling, and

0:24:02.160 --> 0:24:06.399
<v Speaker 1>I am shocked. I don't know what this is. I

0:24:06.440 --> 0:24:09.040
<v Speaker 1>don't know what it means. I don't know if it's

0:24:09.040 --> 0:24:13.119
<v Speaker 1>a joke. I don't know if it's real. I don't know.

0:24:28.000 --> 0:24:30.600
<v Speaker 2>While her husband was on a work trip, Lorena found

0:24:30.640 --> 0:24:33.359
<v Speaker 2>a shoe box of his old work papers, or at

0:24:33.480 --> 0:24:36.679
<v Speaker 2>least that's what she thought it was until she opened

0:24:36.680 --> 0:24:42.040
<v Speaker 2>it and I'm looking through and I can't believe I'm

0:24:42.040 --> 0:24:45.760
<v Speaker 2>finding these weird things. At first, she didn't know what

0:24:45.800 --> 0:24:48.800
<v Speaker 2>she was seeing. This is really weird.

0:24:50.320 --> 0:24:54.960
<v Speaker 1>It's just a paper target population progress chart and then

0:24:55.320 --> 0:25:00.880
<v Speaker 1>self assessment scores calendar. That's what it says right here,

0:25:01.560 --> 0:25:07.560
<v Speaker 1>what age regression? Only one domb question mark and then

0:25:07.640 --> 0:25:09.200
<v Speaker 1>there's a VENMO routing number.

0:25:09.520 --> 0:25:13.000
<v Speaker 2>She kept reading and this is what she came across. Next.

0:25:13.240 --> 0:25:18.080
<v Speaker 1>I came across this one sheet and it said rewards.

0:25:18.240 --> 0:25:24.200
<v Speaker 1>I was like, oh, that's interesting. Nanny Petty from Daddy,

0:25:25.200 --> 0:25:31.719
<v Speaker 1>a point system, remote playtime, SERTs, dress up trips, books,

0:25:32.040 --> 0:25:40.600
<v Speaker 1>watching movie, snacks and then it said little gets backward,

0:25:41.760 --> 0:25:44.960
<v Speaker 1>and then on another page, make a schedule fourteen points,

0:25:45.040 --> 0:25:48.600
<v Speaker 1>work out ten points, nutrition fourteen points.

0:25:49.520 --> 0:25:52.040
<v Speaker 2>It was like a report card or a list of

0:25:52.080 --> 0:25:56.919
<v Speaker 2>activities to do with a kid. But then there was

0:25:56.960 --> 0:25:58.000
<v Speaker 2>another column.

0:25:59.480 --> 0:26:02.440
<v Speaker 1>There was a little part that said punish things that

0:26:03.760 --> 0:26:10.480
<v Speaker 1>I'd never really heard of, edging without release, and I'm

0:26:10.520 --> 0:26:16.680
<v Speaker 1>like yardwork, huh, little did I know? Time out corner.

0:26:17.240 --> 0:26:20.159
<v Speaker 2>It was a reward system of some kind and it

0:26:20.200 --> 0:26:26.320
<v Speaker 2>appeared sexual in nature. But that wasn't all. There were

0:26:26.400 --> 0:26:29.960
<v Speaker 2>credit card statements from cards she didn't know about, and

0:26:30.080 --> 0:26:32.560
<v Speaker 2>receipts for strange purchases.

0:26:32.840 --> 0:26:37.919
<v Speaker 1>Like, oh my word, what is this? Adult baby bottles,

0:26:38.520 --> 0:26:44.199
<v Speaker 1>adult bibs, adult one sees like these are receipts for

0:26:44.280 --> 0:26:49.080
<v Speaker 1>these things that Peter had purchased. There were things of

0:26:49.560 --> 0:26:53.680
<v Speaker 1>him paying baby Bear. That was the name of one

0:26:53.720 --> 0:26:58.440
<v Speaker 1>particular person he was paying. It was somewhere around twenty

0:26:58.480 --> 0:27:01.240
<v Speaker 1>thousand and thirty thousand dollars I'd spent on all of this.

0:27:02.160 --> 0:27:06.639
<v Speaker 2>He'd spent thirty thousand dollars on sex toys and kink

0:27:07.440 --> 0:27:10.800
<v Speaker 2>and who was baby bear? Something was very wrong.

0:27:11.280 --> 0:27:14.520
<v Speaker 1>She and Peter's sex life had always been tame, It

0:27:14.560 --> 0:27:18.159
<v Speaker 1>was all just very vanilla. I remember one time we

0:27:19.080 --> 0:27:22.320
<v Speaker 1>trying to bring up, Oh, maybe we should try handcuffs.

0:27:22.359 --> 0:27:24.119
<v Speaker 1>How would you feel if I had handcuff shoot to

0:27:24.160 --> 0:27:27.879
<v Speaker 1>the bed and he freaked out on me? Oh my gosh,

0:27:27.920 --> 0:27:30.120
<v Speaker 1>we can't do that. What if one of us dies

0:27:30.280 --> 0:27:30.880
<v Speaker 1>during it?

0:27:32.000 --> 0:27:36.000
<v Speaker 2>Princess Buttercup and Baby Bear were clearly indications of another

0:27:36.160 --> 0:27:40.080
<v Speaker 2>side of Peter, one that she never knew existed. The

0:27:40.160 --> 0:27:43.760
<v Speaker 2>Peter she knew was devoted to a conservative fundamentalist church,

0:27:44.359 --> 0:27:47.560
<v Speaker 2>but this man clearly wasn't who he claimed to be.

0:27:48.640 --> 0:27:51.439
<v Speaker 2>Lorena was afraid to confront him on her own, so

0:27:51.480 --> 0:27:54.560
<v Speaker 2>she called her eldest son, who was twenty four. He

0:27:54.680 --> 0:27:57.639
<v Speaker 2>said he would be there in a few days, and

0:27:57.680 --> 0:27:58.800
<v Speaker 2>he gave her some advice.

0:28:00.160 --> 0:28:01.920
<v Speaker 1>And until then, you're gonna have to hold down the fort.

0:28:02.160 --> 0:28:04.200
<v Speaker 1>You're going have to pretend like everything is fine. You're

0:28:04.200 --> 0:28:06.920
<v Speaker 1>going to have to play the part of everything is

0:28:07.000 --> 0:28:12.000
<v Speaker 1>fine when he calls tonight, Act like it's no big deal.

0:28:12.280 --> 0:28:16.000
<v Speaker 1>When he comes home, Treat it like it's any other night.

0:28:18.359 --> 0:28:21.160
<v Speaker 2>Peter came home two days before her son made it there,

0:28:21.560 --> 0:28:25.879
<v Speaker 2>so Loreena did pretend. Finally, her son arrived and they

0:28:25.920 --> 0:28:26.600
<v Speaker 2>got to work.

0:28:28.400 --> 0:28:34.719
<v Speaker 1>My son is very technologically advanced, and we were able

0:28:34.760 --> 0:28:39.760
<v Speaker 1>to go through the computers at home and find things

0:28:39.800 --> 0:28:41.480
<v Speaker 1>that I never could have found on my own.

0:28:42.440 --> 0:28:45.760
<v Speaker 2>And what they found there painted a full picture of

0:28:45.800 --> 0:28:46.640
<v Speaker 2>Peter's deception.

0:28:47.440 --> 0:28:51.200
<v Speaker 1>We found the real Ashley Madison account that he had.

0:28:52.200 --> 0:28:56.479
<v Speaker 1>We found pictures of so many women in various states

0:28:56.520 --> 0:29:04.080
<v Speaker 1>of undress. We found of women with property of Dom

0:29:04.360 --> 0:29:09.080
<v Speaker 1>written in sharpie, property of Peter on one woman.

0:29:09.960 --> 0:29:14.200
<v Speaker 2>These pictures had timestamps dating back to twenty seventeen, four

0:29:14.280 --> 0:29:18.080
<v Speaker 2>years prior. So how much money had he actually spent

0:29:18.120 --> 0:29:21.200
<v Speaker 2>on affairs and why had he spent so much on

0:29:21.280 --> 0:29:26.600
<v Speaker 2>adult diapers, onesies and baby bottles today? This is her

0:29:26.720 --> 0:29:29.760
<v Speaker 2>understanding of what her husband was doing with these women.

0:29:30.920 --> 0:29:35.640
<v Speaker 1>He wanted to be the dom daddy, and he wanted

0:29:35.720 --> 0:29:41.440
<v Speaker 1>a little girl to play along with him.

0:29:41.680 --> 0:29:44.280
<v Speaker 2>As far as she knows, all the women were adults.

0:29:44.640 --> 0:29:47.640
<v Speaker 2>They were just sometimes pretending to be children or babies

0:29:47.680 --> 0:29:50.760
<v Speaker 2>as part of a kink. Lorena pulled up his social

0:29:50.840 --> 0:29:53.840
<v Speaker 2>media accounts where she found the messages he'd written to

0:29:53.880 --> 0:29:57.240
<v Speaker 2>these women, even messages where he referenced Lorena.

0:29:58.080 --> 0:30:00.680
<v Speaker 1>The other thing that I found on there that he

0:30:00.840 --> 0:30:04.680
<v Speaker 1>said was every night that I'm with you or with her,

0:30:05.200 --> 0:30:09.040
<v Speaker 1>I will call my wife and I will talk to

0:30:09.160 --> 0:30:16.520
<v Speaker 1>her for as little time as possible. That hurt.

0:30:18.000 --> 0:30:21.360
<v Speaker 2>Before she confronted Peter, Lorena made an appointment with a

0:30:21.440 --> 0:30:22.720
<v Speaker 2>lawyer to talk divorce.

0:30:25.520 --> 0:30:29.120
<v Speaker 1>She had told me, the state that we live in

0:30:29.360 --> 0:30:32.360
<v Speaker 1>is an ovault state, and there's not much that we

0:30:32.440 --> 0:30:39.800
<v Speaker 1>can do unless you have a picture of him having sex. Basically,

0:30:39.920 --> 0:30:42.680
<v Speaker 1>she said, you've got to have a picture of his

0:30:43.520 --> 0:30:49.520
<v Speaker 1>genitalia going into someone else's genitalia. Well, I've found about

0:30:49.520 --> 0:30:53.800
<v Speaker 1>two hundred of pictures and I think three or four videos.

0:30:54.440 --> 0:30:57.080
<v Speaker 2>Her eldest son was helping her collect this information for

0:30:57.120 --> 0:31:00.959
<v Speaker 2>the divorce attorneys. They pulled documents together at night, sitting

0:31:00.960 --> 0:31:03.440
<v Speaker 2>in their parked car in the garage while Peter slept

0:31:03.440 --> 0:31:06.239
<v Speaker 2>in the house, and that's when they found proof of

0:31:06.360 --> 0:31:07.920
<v Speaker 2>even more financial deception.

0:31:08.920 --> 0:31:15.760
<v Speaker 1>He was working at several different universities as an adjunct professor,

0:31:17.000 --> 0:31:21.120
<v Speaker 1>so he's making money there and he's hiding it. We

0:31:21.240 --> 0:31:28.600
<v Speaker 1>found this man has been spending clearly hand over fist

0:31:29.280 --> 0:31:32.640
<v Speaker 1>tons of money and my children were like almost at

0:31:32.680 --> 0:31:38.160
<v Speaker 1>poverty level. We had no money. He was hemorrhaging money

0:31:38.960 --> 0:31:40.560
<v Speaker 1>on this lifestyle.

0:31:41.480 --> 0:31:44.480
<v Speaker 2>After they gathered all the information they could find, there

0:31:44.560 --> 0:31:46.280
<v Speaker 2>was one last thing they needed to do.

0:31:47.520 --> 0:31:51.000
<v Speaker 1>My son says, Mom, I know we have guns in

0:31:51.040 --> 0:31:51.400
<v Speaker 1>the house.

0:31:52.480 --> 0:31:54.440
<v Speaker 2>He took them and brought them to a friend's place,

0:31:54.680 --> 0:31:56.760
<v Speaker 2>and once the guns were gone, he made sure his

0:31:56.800 --> 0:31:59.680
<v Speaker 2>mom and siblings were out of the house, and then

0:32:00.280 --> 0:32:01.600
<v Speaker 2>he confronted his dad.

0:32:03.240 --> 0:32:09.920
<v Speaker 1>My oldest son went inside to our bedroom and said

0:32:09.960 --> 0:32:17.120
<v Speaker 1>to Peter, hey, dad, mom knows everything and she wants

0:32:17.160 --> 0:32:24.840
<v Speaker 1>you to leave. And Peter sat up slowly, yawned and

0:32:25.360 --> 0:32:33.760
<v Speaker 1>stretched big and said okay. And my son said please leave,

0:32:34.560 --> 0:32:36.680
<v Speaker 1>and he said okay, and he left.

0:32:37.240 --> 0:32:40.760
<v Speaker 2>After that, Loreno only talked to Peter one more time

0:32:41.320 --> 0:32:44.160
<v Speaker 2>on the phone to let him know that she was

0:32:44.240 --> 0:32:45.520
<v Speaker 2>filing for divorce.

0:32:46.480 --> 0:32:49.280
<v Speaker 1>I don't remember all the nonsense he tried to say,

0:32:49.680 --> 0:32:52.680
<v Speaker 1>but what he did tell me was what you are

0:32:52.800 --> 0:32:57.880
<v Speaker 1>doing is far worse than anything I ever did. What

0:32:58.160 --> 0:33:02.959
<v Speaker 1>I did, what I was doing was divorcing him. I

0:33:03.040 --> 0:33:06.360
<v Speaker 1>just laughed. I was like it, okay, and we're done.

0:33:06.520 --> 0:33:11.200
<v Speaker 1>And I have not had a conversation with him since.

0:33:13.920 --> 0:33:17.080
<v Speaker 2>That was in twenty twenty one. From then on, her

0:33:17.120 --> 0:33:20.840
<v Speaker 2>son took over all communication with Peter that allowed Lorena

0:33:20.920 --> 0:33:24.640
<v Speaker 2>to focus on her emotional and financial recovery. She also

0:33:24.720 --> 0:33:27.520
<v Speaker 2>had to explain to her eleving kids why their father

0:33:27.600 --> 0:33:30.640
<v Speaker 2>had left. Her youngest child was five.

0:33:31.360 --> 0:33:35.640
<v Speaker 1>Those early days are just such pipler. I do remember

0:33:35.720 --> 0:33:41.880
<v Speaker 1>telling the children that we were divorcing because of Peter

0:33:42.120 --> 0:33:47.480
<v Speaker 1>making some very bad decisions. I think the words I

0:33:47.600 --> 0:33:49.680
<v Speaker 1>consistently used were poor choices.

0:33:51.360 --> 0:33:54.800
<v Speaker 2>But when friends and adult family asked, she told them

0:33:54.840 --> 0:33:59.400
<v Speaker 2>the truth how she really felt about her husband. Peter

0:33:59.840 --> 0:34:06.400
<v Speaker 2>was a black hole. She couldn't believe how strange it

0:34:06.440 --> 0:34:10.200
<v Speaker 2>all was. He was spending tens of thousands of dollars

0:34:10.239 --> 0:34:14.680
<v Speaker 2>on sexual fetishes, fetishes that included things like baby play,

0:34:15.320 --> 0:34:19.040
<v Speaker 2>but all the while he was never interested in childcare.

0:34:20.760 --> 0:34:24.440
<v Speaker 1>One thing that kept coming back to me was how

0:34:24.680 --> 0:34:29.319
<v Speaker 1>weird he was about changing diapers. And here he is,

0:34:29.600 --> 0:34:34.400
<v Speaker 1>He's spent, you know, thousands of dollars on diapers.

0:34:35.880 --> 0:34:38.200
<v Speaker 2>After he left and I had.

0:34:38.120 --> 0:34:42.280
<v Speaker 1>Filed for divorce, I was still trying to go to church,

0:34:42.960 --> 0:34:44.399
<v Speaker 1>taking the kids and all that.

0:34:45.640 --> 0:34:49.120
<v Speaker 2>But after what Peter did, church wasn't the same.

0:34:49.920 --> 0:34:55.439
<v Speaker 1>There's this cognitive dissonance. I'm now going, what else have

0:34:55.480 --> 0:34:57.360
<v Speaker 1>I been told?

0:34:57.560 --> 0:34:59.399
<v Speaker 2>That's not right?

0:35:01.200 --> 0:35:06.399
<v Speaker 1>This whole patriarchy thing. How is any of this at

0:35:06.400 --> 0:35:11.880
<v Speaker 1>all biblical? What's real and what's not real? I still

0:35:12.760 --> 0:35:15.200
<v Speaker 1>have a difficult time going to church.

0:35:17.520 --> 0:35:20.200
<v Speaker 2>She stopped going to church and is taking time to

0:35:20.239 --> 0:35:24.720
<v Speaker 2>reevaluate her spirituality and values. She started going to therapy,

0:35:25.000 --> 0:35:30.240
<v Speaker 2>where she began understanding that what she experienced was spiritual abuse.

0:35:31.120 --> 0:35:33.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to say all churches, because I believe

0:35:33.200 --> 0:35:35.759
<v Speaker 1>that there are some really awesome churches out there. I've

0:35:35.800 --> 0:35:40.080
<v Speaker 1>been to some, okay, But the ones that are perpetuating

0:35:41.160 --> 0:35:46.960
<v Speaker 1>patriarchal abuse are the ones that are saying wives submit

0:35:47.239 --> 0:35:54.320
<v Speaker 1>to your husbands. That allows for men to treat women

0:35:54.719 --> 0:35:58.800
<v Speaker 1>however they desire, with no repercussion.

0:35:59.680 --> 0:36:04.600
<v Speaker 2>She was spiritually abused by the church, but also by Peter. Today,

0:36:04.680 --> 0:36:07.120
<v Speaker 2>she doesn't know if he ever believed any of the

0:36:07.160 --> 0:36:11.080
<v Speaker 2>fundamentalist ideology or if he just used it as a

0:36:11.120 --> 0:36:12.920
<v Speaker 2>way to control her.

0:36:14.280 --> 0:36:17.680
<v Speaker 1>I look back and I can see Peter used that

0:36:18.680 --> 0:36:21.759
<v Speaker 1>to keep me under control, to keep me where he

0:36:21.800 --> 0:36:23.960
<v Speaker 1>wanted me, and to keep me behaving in the way

0:36:23.960 --> 0:36:26.560
<v Speaker 1>he wanted. And three years ago, I couldn't have told

0:36:26.600 --> 0:36:30.120
<v Speaker 1>you that. This is three years of heavy duty therapy.

0:36:30.960 --> 0:36:33.799
<v Speaker 2>And then there was his devotion to having as many

0:36:33.920 --> 0:36:36.680
<v Speaker 2>kids as God would allow? Was that also just a

0:36:36.719 --> 0:36:37.680
<v Speaker 2>weapon of control?

0:36:39.560 --> 0:36:42.479
<v Speaker 1>Looking back, I see why he did that. It kept

0:36:42.560 --> 0:36:46.960
<v Speaker 1>me busy. His goal was to always keep me busy

0:36:47.600 --> 0:36:49.960
<v Speaker 1>and to keep me from looking at what he was doing,

0:36:50.600 --> 0:36:53.520
<v Speaker 1>because if I wasn't busy with the kids, then my

0:36:53.600 --> 0:36:55.040
<v Speaker 1>focus was on him.

0:36:55.400 --> 0:37:00.080
<v Speaker 2>After all, Peter was smart. Unlike a lot of deception story,

0:37:00.600 --> 0:37:03.440
<v Speaker 2>he really did get that fancy NBA from an Ivy

0:37:03.520 --> 0:37:07.360
<v Speaker 2>League school, and after that he parked his wife in

0:37:07.440 --> 0:37:11.640
<v Speaker 2>a fundamentalist church and began an insidious process.

0:37:12.400 --> 0:37:18.080
<v Speaker 1>Somewhere along the way, he had started shipping away at

0:37:18.120 --> 0:37:21.400
<v Speaker 1>my identity of who I was and what I could become,

0:37:22.200 --> 0:37:27.320
<v Speaker 1>and I believed him.

0:37:27.400 --> 0:37:30.160
<v Speaker 2>It hurts to look back and think about the life

0:37:30.320 --> 0:37:31.480
<v Speaker 2>she had before Peter.

0:37:32.600 --> 0:37:38.560
<v Speaker 1>When I met Peter, I was a strong, independent woman.

0:37:40.080 --> 0:37:43.360
<v Speaker 1>I was only twenty two, but I had two children

0:37:43.760 --> 0:37:46.920
<v Speaker 1>and I was taking care of them like a boss.

0:37:48.040 --> 0:37:52.760
<v Speaker 1>I had plans, I had goals.

0:37:53.400 --> 0:37:56.720
<v Speaker 2>Still, she adores each of her children, and she says

0:37:57.120 --> 0:38:01.160
<v Speaker 2>they're the reason she's made it through. She's rebuilding her

0:38:01.200 --> 0:38:07.600
<v Speaker 2>life and finally finishing her degree. It's important for her

0:38:07.680 --> 0:38:11.160
<v Speaker 2>to explain that not only can betrayal happen to anyone,

0:38:11.920 --> 0:38:13.680
<v Speaker 2>but so can indoctrination.

0:38:14.800 --> 0:38:22.439
<v Speaker 1>People do ask how does a capable, intelligent person go

0:38:22.600 --> 0:38:25.120
<v Speaker 1>from Hey, I'm a single mom and I'm killing it.

0:38:25.200 --> 0:38:28.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm full time mom, I'm full time student, I'm full

0:38:28.719 --> 0:38:35.319
<v Speaker 1>time employee. How does someone go from that to I'm

0:38:35.360 --> 0:38:38.320
<v Speaker 1>not allowed to look at the financial statements of the house.

0:38:39.360 --> 0:38:42.400
<v Speaker 1>You're comfortable in the beginning, Hey, you know you're not

0:38:42.520 --> 0:38:46.080
<v Speaker 1>really that great at keeping track of things. You might

0:38:46.160 --> 0:38:49.960
<v Speaker 1>forget You've got so much on your plate. Let me

0:38:50.040 --> 0:38:52.680
<v Speaker 1>just do all the finances. I'll take care of it

0:38:53.880 --> 0:38:57.319
<v Speaker 1>all the way to if you look at this bank

0:38:57.360 --> 0:39:00.439
<v Speaker 1>account again, I will cut you off and you will

0:39:00.440 --> 0:39:05.200
<v Speaker 1>not be able to see any finances. You're a boiled frog.

0:39:09.760 --> 0:39:12.080
<v Speaker 2>We end all of our episodes with the same question,

0:39:12.920 --> 0:39:16.239
<v Speaker 2>why do you want to tell your story? And Lorena

0:39:17.000 --> 0:39:19.320
<v Speaker 2>came prepared to answer this one.

0:39:19.880 --> 0:39:22.879
<v Speaker 1>The reason I wanted to tell my story is so

0:39:22.960 --> 0:39:27.000
<v Speaker 1>that others who are out there in a similar situation

0:39:27.920 --> 0:39:32.520
<v Speaker 1>might have their eyes opened and go, Wow, If she

0:39:32.719 --> 0:39:37.200
<v Speaker 1>can do it with eleven kids, seven still at home,

0:39:37.680 --> 0:39:43.440
<v Speaker 1>and with all the odds stacked against her, so can I.

0:39:43.440 --> 0:39:49.080
<v Speaker 1>If my story can just help one person to see

0:39:49.120 --> 0:39:53.160
<v Speaker 1>a little clearer, to feel a little bit of comfort,

0:39:54.440 --> 0:39:59.680
<v Speaker 1>to think that their life is not over. You're not

0:39:59.760 --> 0:40:03.719
<v Speaker 1>too old to get out. It is never too late

0:40:03.840 --> 0:40:11.799
<v Speaker 1>to start over and find who you are. That's my

0:40:11.880 --> 0:40:19.680
<v Speaker 1>hope on.

0:40:19.680 --> 0:40:24.960
<v Speaker 2>The next episode of Betrayal. Who is this person?

0:40:26.040 --> 0:40:30.400
<v Speaker 1>Have I been with? An ex murderer, a serial rapist?

0:40:31.440 --> 0:40:38.200
<v Speaker 2>I've got to find out this person's real name. If

0:40:38.239 --> 0:40:40.160
<v Speaker 2>you would like to reach out to the Betrayal team

0:40:40.320 --> 0:40:43.000
<v Speaker 2>or want to tell us your Betrayal story, email us

0:40:43.000 --> 0:40:47.680
<v Speaker 2>at betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal Pod at

0:40:47.719 --> 0:40:51.839
<v Speaker 2>gmail dot com. We're grateful for your support. One way

0:40:51.840 --> 0:40:54.000
<v Speaker 2>to show a support is by subscribing to our show

0:40:54.000 --> 0:40:57.160
<v Speaker 2>on Apple Podcasts and don't forget to rate and review Betrayal.

0:40:57.560 --> 0:41:00.680
<v Speaker 2>Five star reviews go a long way. Big thank you

0:41:00.800 --> 0:41:04.120
<v Speaker 2>to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of

0:41:04.160 --> 0:41:07.480
<v Speaker 2>Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership

0:41:07.480 --> 0:41:11.000
<v Speaker 2>with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy

0:41:11.000 --> 0:41:15.280
<v Speaker 2>Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced by me Andrea Gunning,

0:41:15.880 --> 0:41:20.000
<v Speaker 2>written and produced by Monique Leboard, also produced by Ben Fetterman.

0:41:20.600 --> 0:41:24.840
<v Speaker 2>Associate producers are Kristin Mercury and Caitlin Golden. Our iHeart

0:41:24.880 --> 0:41:28.279
<v Speaker 2>team is Ali Perry and Jessica Krinchech. Audio editing and

0:41:28.320 --> 0:41:32.520
<v Speaker 2>mixing by mattel Vecchio, Additional editing support from Nico Ruka

0:41:32.760 --> 0:41:37.760
<v Speaker 2>and Tanner Robbins. Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Bains. Music

0:41:37.840 --> 0:41:42.280
<v Speaker 2>library provided by my Music and For more podcasts from iHeart,

0:41:42.480 --> 0:41:45.960
<v Speaker 2>visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

0:41:46.000 --> 0:41:51.359
<v Speaker 2>your podcasts