Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Rachel Zoe and you're listening to Climbing
Speaker 1: in Heels for your weekly dose of glamour, inspiration and
Speaker 1: of course fun. In honor fashion Month coming to an end,
Speaker 1: I'm throwing it back and paying tribute to one of
Speaker 1: my all time favorite fashion icons.
Speaker 2: Emon.
Speaker 1: Emon has truly pushed the boundaries of the fashion industry
Speaker 1: by staying true to herself and what she believes in.
Speaker 1: She is just the most iconic and gorgeous woman, and
Speaker 1: I am so lucky to call her a friend. So
Speaker 1: let's jump right in.
Speaker 2: Hi darling, Oh my god, I miss you so much.
Speaker 3: How are you? How are you?
Speaker 2: I'm so good? How are you?
Speaker 4: I'm okay, I'm how's the kids?
Speaker 1: They're so good? They're so bad. I mean there are
Speaker 1: eleven and eight. I can't believe it. How are yours?
Speaker 2: Big? Old?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm My kids are.
Speaker 3: Old and they are older, and I have three grandchildren.
Speaker 2: I cannot believe you have grandchildren?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: Do they call you grandma or do you have another name?
Speaker 3: Nana?
Speaker 1: I'm so happy to see you. You look stunning.
Speaker 3: Oh thank you?
Speaker 2: I do not Oh my.
Speaker 1: God, you so I started this podcast Climbing in Heels
Speaker 1: because there are so many incredible superwomen in my life
Speaker 1: that I've met along my journey, in my life and
Speaker 1: in my career, and you have always stood out as
Speaker 1: just one of the most elegant, beautiful souls, just beyond
Speaker 1: your actual physical beauty. You've just always been this ray
Speaker 1: of light in those crazy rooms in my life. And
Speaker 1: you know what I'm taught talking about when you walk
Speaker 1: into those rooms and it's crazy, and I would always
Speaker 1: feel very lost and very small and very you know, intimidated,
Speaker 1: And you were just always this strikingly tall, beautiful but
Speaker 1: kind and friendly and still funny, always funny person in
Speaker 1: my life. And so before I was getting on, I
Speaker 1: was I was thinking about your journey and what an
Speaker 1: incredible journey it's been. And I mean, it would take
Speaker 1: us years to get through that, but I do want
Speaker 1: to talk about because everybody knows who you are. Everybody
Speaker 1: knows Emon the Queen, and so for my listeners, I
Speaker 1: think it's very important to know, you know. I call
Speaker 1: this podcast Climbing and Heels because I think that so
Speaker 1: many of the women I know that get to where
Speaker 1: they are, they don't sacrifice being a woman for it.
Speaker 1: They don't sacrifice embracing their beauty and femininity as a
Speaker 1: woman and using their superpowers in various ways. And you're
Speaker 1: such a good example of that. And so what I
Speaker 1: want to go to is just a little bit from
Speaker 1: the beginning of like who were you as this child?
Speaker 1: Were you always this person that was like I want
Speaker 1: to do a million things in my life, I need
Speaker 1: to do this, this is or were you just like chill?
Speaker 1: I can't imagine that you were, but please tell me yes,
Speaker 1: person of.
Speaker 4: All, as you said, I never would have thought of
Speaker 4: you when you walk into a room that you were small.
Speaker 4: You are not a small personality. That's a bad way.
Speaker 4: So I don't know what you're talking about. Bed, you
Speaker 4: own the room, money you walk in regards regardless of
Speaker 4: how high your heels were, my journey, really it was
Speaker 4: I never I've never envisioned myself of where my trajectory
Speaker 4: or journey took me. I was always intending to major
Speaker 4: in political science and follow the footsteps of my father,
Speaker 4: who was an ambassador, so I was more into politics.
Speaker 4: I've never seen fashion magazines, never board heels or make
Speaker 4: up way before I came to the United States, So
Speaker 4: I was an ambassador's daughter for many years, and then
Speaker 4: in nineteen sixty nine, my country, Somalia, had had a
Speaker 4: military regime took over and all the embassies were closed
Speaker 4: and we all came back home and a lot of
Speaker 4: people would either put in prison or execute it.
Speaker 3: So my parents decided in the middle of the nineteen.
Speaker 4: Nineteen seventy two that we were going to flee the country,
Speaker 4: and so they put us in a vain and just
Speaker 4: drove to the border of Kenya and then we crossed
Speaker 4: over by vote, just with the clothes on our back
Speaker 4: and instantly became refugees. So when I I arrived in
Speaker 4: any of that was my.
Speaker 3: Lot in life. All I was trying to do was
Speaker 3: actually trying to get a.
Speaker 4: Scholarship to finish the university. And so I had no
Speaker 4: no recollection of ever seeing a fashion.
Speaker 3: Magazine in my life.
Speaker 4: And one day while I was walking down the street
Speaker 4: on my.
Speaker 3: Way from one job to another.
Speaker 4: And Peter beer to the photographer, stopped me in the
Speaker 4: street and asked me if I had ever been photographed.
Speaker 4: So I had no idea what he was trying to
Speaker 4: talk about. I thought he was trying to pick.
Speaker 1: Me up, and I said, you're probably like, huh, handsome
Speaker 1: man asking to take my picture.
Speaker 2: Interesting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and so he he said to me the magic word.
Speaker 4: He said, I will pay you and I said, well
Speaker 4: how much? He said, well, how much do you need?
Speaker 4: And I said it's eight thousand dollars. That was the
Speaker 4: question for one year and he said, okay, I'll pay you.
Speaker 3: And he took pictures of me just and.
Speaker 4: I had a friend with me, and so he took
Speaker 4: these pictures of me and then I thought I'll never
Speaker 4: see him again. And three months later I didn't have
Speaker 4: our staying at the in campus at the university, I
Speaker 4: didn't have a phone.
Speaker 3: So he had a friend of mine who worked at Pannan.
Speaker 3: This is how.
Speaker 2: My god.
Speaker 4: He called her and told her to let me know
Speaker 4: that he wants to talk to me. So I went
Speaker 4: there to her office the next day and it was Wilhelmina,
Speaker 4: who owned Wilhelmina agency agency and him on the phone
Speaker 4: and they both said, me saw the pictures. She said,
Speaker 4: she saw the pictures. She's going to send me a ticket.
Speaker 4: I could become a big model. And I had no
Speaker 4: idea what they were talking about. And the only thing
Speaker 4: I asked for was a return ticket back home if
Speaker 4: I didn't have if I didn't want to stay, and
Speaker 4: I still have the ticket.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I bet you do.
Speaker 4: Yes, I do, I do, And so I give into
Speaker 4: the United States and.
Speaker 3: On my Thursday in New York, I was working for vote.
Speaker 1: That's the sickest thing ever. Yeah, but it just, honestly,
Speaker 1: it just shows that you were just so smart and
Speaker 1: clever about how you conducted yourself in life, no matter
Speaker 1: what like meaning you were. You were living in a
Speaker 1: not ideal situation, right, I mean you left with nothing
Speaker 1: but the clothes in your back, basically starting your life.
Speaker 2: So how old were you when you came to New York.
Speaker 1: I was barely nineteen, barely nineteen, barely nineteen.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I thought I was just really checking out
Speaker 4: what they were talking about the industry. I had no
Speaker 4: intention of actually staying. And then when things happened for me,
Speaker 4: it was an opportunity for me to be able to
Speaker 4: send my brothers and sisters so they can finish their education, yeah,
Speaker 4: and take care of my parents.
Speaker 3: So that's what really the industry has, you know, was
Speaker 3: helpful to me, sure.
Speaker 4: But objectory of my life completely changed, you know, in
Speaker 4: just one instant of being photographed by.
Speaker 1: Peter, and I think you know, to some extent that
Speaker 1: still happens now. I feel like, right, I mean it's
Speaker 1: such a massive conversation, but I mean you broke down endless,
Speaker 1: countless walls in the modeling industry.
Speaker 2: You were so.
Speaker 1: Much more than like a beautiful model. It was sort
Speaker 1: of like emon, right, It was sort of like the
Speaker 1: one word, the one name, the like that, and you
Speaker 1: really just stood out because I what's funny is what
Speaker 1: I remember so well, of course, is what you wore.
Speaker 1: You know, you know, this sort of like model off
Speaker 1: duty look of like the jeans and T shirts and
Speaker 1: sneakers and whatever.
Speaker 2: I don't have any image of you in that.
Speaker 1: I have images of you and like Halston, Bob Mackie,
Speaker 1: like I guess one of my questions is to you
Speaker 1: is like were you obsessed with it?
Speaker 2: Were you loving it? Were you living for the sort
Speaker 2: of fashion of it? Were you like?
Speaker 1: It just seems to me that you had such a
Speaker 1: deep love and still do to this day. And look
Speaker 1: at you right now, You're not in jeans and a
Speaker 1: T shirt.
Speaker 4: But no, I was not obsessed with it because I
Speaker 4: was learning on the job.
Speaker 3: But what what it opened the doors for me?
Speaker 4: It is things that regular people are not don't experience.
Speaker 4: I mean, my first walk on the runway was for Halston, right,
Speaker 4: and I've never.
Speaker 3: Forget when I went to see him in his.
Speaker 4: Massive Olympic Tower studio with all the mirrors everywhere, and
Speaker 4: he had an ever present cigarette in his hand and
Speaker 4: a hand in his pocket.
Speaker 1: And a turtlekneck and turtlet, but a hand in his pocket,
Speaker 1: even although he was in his office.
Speaker 4: He was almost posy, exactly exactly, and he said to me, Darling,
Speaker 4: can you walk? I said, how the f do you
Speaker 4: think I got here? But he said, Okay, I know
Speaker 4: you just came from Africa, but walking here is different
Speaker 4: than walking out the street. So and that was the
Speaker 4: first time I even learned about the world walking in
Speaker 4: our industry, what it means that it doesn't.
Speaker 3: Mean just walking down the street.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so yeah, and so you're exposed to that. But
Speaker 4: really the level of understanding the fashion industry and its
Speaker 4: designers came to me when one season some Lavan asked
Speaker 4: me to be his muse for Thekuturu collection.
Speaker 1: You realize that my whole insights are collapsing as you
Speaker 1: say this, right, this is literally like it's it's almost
Speaker 1: like you're singing this song to me of dreams. Okay,
Speaker 1: it was like Halston walking into a studio and then
Speaker 1: and it.
Speaker 4: Was really first of all, I was clueless what amuse meant?
Speaker 4: So I thought there were like, there would be lots
Speaker 4: of girls, other girls, but it was only me. And
Speaker 4: he literally had bolts of fabric that he cut on
Speaker 4: my body. He was creating the collection as.
Speaker 3: I was standing right there. And when he.
Speaker 4: Finished, the collection was called The African Queen and David
Speaker 4: Bailey took the pictures and you know that, So you
Speaker 4: had that level of couture collections and understanding these colorless
Speaker 4: and things and you know, jewelry.
Speaker 3: And amazing, amazing hyper environment.
Speaker 4: And then cut to Terry Mugler and Claude Montana and
Speaker 4: John Cabot here who was the three Los von in Paris,
Speaker 4: and then he.
Speaker 3: Became the muse of Terry Mugler, who was like an.
Speaker 4: Ng M film director because all his shows looked like.
Speaker 3: Like scenes from Seems exactly exactly. So you know, so
Speaker 3: there is.
Speaker 4: That experience and what you have in fashion is that
Speaker 4: we literally I used to call it literally the circus
Speaker 4: because you know, we'll go to Paris and the tents
Speaker 4: will blow up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes it's true.
Speaker 4: And we will be there and doing all kinds of
Speaker 4: crazy fashions and the tents come back down and we
Speaker 4: moved onto another city. So it's like really running away
Speaker 4: with the circles being with fashion.
Speaker 2: I need to put that on a T shirt.
Speaker 1: So, I mean, you know, I always like to know
Speaker 1: what that moment that changed your life and your career was.
Speaker 1: I mean, it would obviously be the Peter Bard moment, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, but there was probably many.
Speaker 4: Yes, there were many, but that was really you know,
Speaker 4: that that opened the door. And then there were like
Speaker 4: the designers obviously who from the Givangis to the ifs
Speaker 4: on alone who used lots of sixty percent of their
Speaker 4: cabine on runway with black models of Asian models. So
Speaker 4: you had really at that time, really had through inclusivity. Yeah,
Speaker 4: not by world, but really existed, right. But for me
Speaker 4: as my trajectory.
Speaker 3: What changes was really becoming used to uh to Terry.
Speaker 4: Mugler, because I remember every shows that I would go
Speaker 4: and you know, as a black model, most of the
Speaker 4: design most of the hairdressers didn't know how.
Speaker 3: To do with our hair.
Speaker 4: So immediately they just just pull it back in a shoon, right.
Speaker 4: So Terry Mugler was the first person who said, you know,
Speaker 4: think of your craziest dreams and we'll go for it.
Speaker 4: And it's for the first time where I met a hairdresser,
Speaker 4: a black hairdresser in New York who did hair extensions,
Speaker 4: and she did the hair extensions, and I arrived in Paris,
Speaker 4: and you would think that they have so seen me
Speaker 4: in a different light because now, all of a sudden,
Speaker 4: my head could be straight, it would be curly, it could.
Speaker 3: Be an afroc, you know. So that completely changed.
Speaker 4: The trajectory of my real bresiness because all of a
Speaker 4: sudden we were seen in a different blood.
Speaker 1: That's so interesting. And then I imagine that the same
Speaker 1: thing probably happened with makeup, yep, because that's something you
Speaker 1: and I have talked about that And I remember when
Speaker 1: you launched your makeup and you said, I needed to
Speaker 1: make a line of makeup for us because nobody at
Speaker 1: the shows was able to match your skin tone to
Speaker 1: the foundation and da da da, And so tell me
Speaker 1: about that, because I think that is so incredibly important
Speaker 1: to know and I think for everyone to really understand.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly because nowa there's a lot of young people
Speaker 4: are really letting in an environment where fency exists, you know,
Speaker 4: so they don't know where actually this could have come from. Yes,
Speaker 4: and as lovely as Lehanna has invented that, there were
Speaker 4: other smaller companies before I started that they were trying
Speaker 4: to do, but there was not really a marketplace for us.
Speaker 4: But in nineteen seventy five, my first job when I
Speaker 4: arrived was American Vogue, and the shoot there was a
Speaker 4: Caucasian model and I and it was with Arthur Elbert,
Speaker 4: and there was a makeup artist and he started doing
Speaker 4: the white girl's makeup, and then when he came to
Speaker 4: my turn, he asked me a very perplexing question because
Speaker 4: I knew it was not lost on me that he
Speaker 4: did not ask that question to the other girl, And
Speaker 4: he said, did you bring your own foundation?
Speaker 3: Because he had nothing for me.
Speaker 4: So he started mixing products and put it on my face,
Speaker 4: and when I looked in the mirror, I looked gray.
Speaker 3: And so I thought after that shoot, I thought, if
Speaker 3: I survived this shoot, I'm going to find out some
Speaker 3: kind of a way that I.
Speaker 4: Can get something in the marketplace and mix a product
Speaker 4: that I can use and take it.
Speaker 3: With me to the shoots because they don't have it.
Speaker 4: And just the gods of fashion was looking after me.
Speaker 4: Pictures in black and white, and black and white. It's
Speaker 4: multitude of sins.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Okay.
Speaker 4: So I went and bought all these foundations that I found,
Speaker 4: things that have a little bit of a tent, and
Speaker 4: I mixed it and I had the original selfish the
Speaker 4: polaroid and I'll put the makeup on and I'll take
Speaker 4: I'll take a picture of myself just to see it.
Speaker 3: How will it translate it into photography?
Speaker 4: Because at the end of the day, as a model,
Speaker 4: image is my parents.
Speaker 3: Nobody cares about how I really is. How do I
Speaker 3: do I translate into photographs? And I wanted to have
Speaker 3: some kind of a control of that.
Speaker 4: So I never went to a job without having something
Speaker 4: in my pocket. And when I started doing the runways
Speaker 4: and I would be doing my makeup, every black marble
Speaker 4: would come to me and she says, let me see
Speaker 4: what you have? Can I use some of yous?
Speaker 3: Wow? And so from there the.
Speaker 4: Seed of creating Imaan Cosmetics was in my head. And
Speaker 4: when I stopped modeling in nineteen eighty nine I created
Speaker 4: in nineteen ninety forty nine.
Speaker 3: Pluses.
Speaker 1: Wow, Yes, it's weird, though I don't I feel like
Speaker 1: you still model? Yes, I mean I feel like you're
Speaker 1: still modeled. Like, what do you mean you're still modeling?
Speaker 1: You did not stop in eighty nine?
Speaker 3: What? Let me tell you. In nineteen eighty nine, my
Speaker 3: last show was for.
Speaker 4: Thierry Millblair, his first Cotol collection, and I said bye,
Speaker 4: and I told everybody.
Speaker 3: That was that was my last show.
Speaker 4: And I remember because it was very poignant and very sweet.
Speaker 4: All the photographers in the marsh pat came on the
Speaker 4: stage and took the last picture with me. I have
Speaker 4: to tell you, I have not been to a fashion
Speaker 4: show since nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 2: No, you haven't been to one, or you haven't walked
Speaker 2: in one.
Speaker 4: I have not walked in one, and I have not
Speaker 4: been in what well, if you think.
Speaker 3: About it, I've worked with mostly all the designers and
Speaker 3: so who So I'm I'm going to go to go.
Speaker 1: There's no way that you have not been asked four
Speaker 1: hundred times to walk a show, not.
Speaker 4: Like as recent as last.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, but I don't.
Speaker 2: Now a word from our sponsor that is real. It's
Speaker 2: actually really.
Speaker 1: Incredible because how many times do icons retire and then
Speaker 1: like a month later they're like, just kidding, just kidding,
Speaker 1: I'm coming back. And I feel like I've seen it
Speaker 1: with countless like singers and actors, and everyone's like, I'm done,
Speaker 1: I'm done.
Speaker 2: I'm quitting. I'm quitting, even like Tom Brady quitting. Just kidding.
Speaker 4: But but he's going to be in trouble with if
Speaker 4: he doesn't keep up.
Speaker 3: I know it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's listen, yes, okay, Emon Cosmetics.
Speaker 2: It's amazing, it's beautiful.
Speaker 1: You've done I feel like hundreds of thousands of things
Speaker 1: because I just feel like you're such this large presence
Speaker 1: and you're you have so much to say about things.
Speaker 4: You know. I've written two books, you know, very successful books.
Speaker 4: One was on beauty and was called The Beauty of Color,
Speaker 4: and it was the ultimate guy for skin of color.
Speaker 4: And and it was not just for black women, it
Speaker 4: was also for latinis because I built my forward and
Speaker 4: I had.
Speaker 3: Aba Mendez and you know Jay Jagg and you know.
Speaker 4: Everybody under this under that umbrella as a global community
Speaker 4: and as beauty that is not the.
Speaker 3: Standard of just white.
Speaker 4: And then I wrote a book called I Am in Man,
Speaker 4: which was photography and and and my story about how
Speaker 4: I from my where I came.
Speaker 3: From doing this industry.
Speaker 4: Uh and you know, and then during COVID, I was
Speaker 4: contacted by YouTube and these directors with them and they.
Speaker 3: Were going to They wanted to talk to me about.
Speaker 4: A doggy series that called Supreme Models, which was based
Speaker 4: on a book called Supreme Models, which is black models
Speaker 4: who revolutionized fashion industry. So I said to them, you know,
Speaker 4: I said to them, what are you bringing to the
Speaker 4: table that has not been.
Speaker 3: Said about black beauty and black models?
Speaker 4: And they said, are you aware that there has never
Speaker 4: been a documentary on black beauty or black marbles, which
Speaker 4: was surprising to me at twenty twenty one that there
Speaker 4: has nothing else existence. So that's how I came on
Speaker 4: board and we did the dog series and it is
Speaker 4: really beautiful and it is not more about the trials
Speaker 4: and tribulations, although we do talk about that, but it's
Speaker 4: more about the joy and celebration of black beauty and
Speaker 4: what that singularly black fashion model, or how she was
Speaker 4: responsible for cultural changes that has been going through in
Speaker 4: our industry from black is beautiful in.
Speaker 3: The nineteen sixties till now.
Speaker 4: So that's the whole all history of black mons and
Speaker 4: black culture and black beauty till now.
Speaker 3: What's going on?
Speaker 2: And Zendia is in there? Who I.
Speaker 3: She is?
Speaker 2: How impressed are you with her?
Speaker 3: I'm beyond she is.
Speaker 2: She's mind boggling.
Speaker 3: Yeah, more important than how young she is.
Speaker 2: It's actually unreal.
Speaker 1: She's so she's so young, and she's so gifted, and
Speaker 1: she's so she's so clear, like even just when I've
Speaker 1: seen her win countless awards in person and from afar,
Speaker 1: and I have to say, like the way that she
Speaker 1: speaks with conviction and at such a young age, she's
Speaker 1: just she's really special.
Speaker 2: I mean, she's so impressive.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, absolutely, you know That's what I'm usually I'm impressed
Speaker 4: with is young, how young she is, and how to
Speaker 4: get though she is, which is yeah, No.
Speaker 3: She's lovely, She's lovely.
Speaker 4: I have the pleasure of she asked me to award
Speaker 4: how to give her the award as a fashion icon.
Speaker 1: Award, as it should be, but both deserved by the way.
Speaker 2: I loved watching you get that award. That was the best.
Speaker 2: That was the best.
Speaker 1: So okay, so you've had obviously quite a journey. In
Speaker 1: any journey, there's so many adversities, there's so many challenges,
Speaker 1: and you know the thing is, I think you've broken
Speaker 1: down so many walls, ceilings, doors for people. On the
Speaker 1: one hand, you know, it was a different time than
Speaker 1: it is now. Now, I feel like there's so much
Speaker 1: more inclusivity and everything like that, and there's so much
Speaker 1: less tolerance for such terrible treatment to any model. Honestly,
Speaker 1: what strikes you as something that you'll like never forget,
Speaker 1: something that really knocked you down where you were, like,
Speaker 1: I cannot believe if this's just happened, and I cannot
Speaker 1: believe how angry I am. But guess what this is
Speaker 1: going to passed me off so much that now I
Speaker 1: have to like do more. I have to change this
Speaker 1: or I have to you know, I imagine there's been some triggers.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 4: The first one was when I arrived in New York
Speaker 4: in nineteen seventy five and I started working.
Speaker 3: I found out.
Speaker 4: That that the pay between.
Speaker 3: Black modles and white models was not the same.
Speaker 4: Black mouths chold were being paid less for the same job.
Speaker 4: So I said to Wilhelmina, I said, listen, definitely this
Speaker 4: is and places act, but let's take place even out
Speaker 4: of the equation. I said, what I want, what I'm
Speaker 4: demanding is for services winter if somebody is doing the
Speaker 4: same job like I am, I want to be paying
Speaker 4: the same amount. And it was like then the clients
Speaker 4: will not go for it, blah bla blah blah, And
Speaker 4: I said, Okay, you know I'm gonna I'm not going
Speaker 4: to be working. I just want to tell you I'm
Speaker 4: not going to be working till all these changes. It
Speaker 4: took three months, but the first client did make that
Speaker 4: change and that became that change. But that was in
Speaker 4: nineteen seventy five. So forward to twenty thirty. I'm not
Speaker 4: modeling anymore. I'm only doing in man cosmetics. A friend
Speaker 4: of mine contacts me by the name of the fan Hardison.
Speaker 2: I was just going to ask you about that, queen.
Speaker 4: And she said, I'm going to send you an article
Speaker 4: in the New York Times.
Speaker 3: This is twenty thirteen, and the article said.
Speaker 4: The blonde leading the blonde, And it was what was
Speaker 4: happening on the runways across Europe and now in the
Speaker 4: United States.
Speaker 3: There was a black out of black marbles. There was
Speaker 3: not one single black Mardel.
Speaker 4: Used to that season, right, but we're talking about now
Speaker 4: we're going to a three year period.
Speaker 3: I had no idea because I was not in the
Speaker 3: industry right right.
Speaker 4: And so that Anne I and ao A Cambell have
Speaker 4: sat together and looked through all the collections that there's
Speaker 4: and there was absence of black mantains across the board.
Speaker 4: We've never seen anything like and so we decided to
Speaker 4: write to.
Speaker 3: The CFDA and then we disp We wrote.
Speaker 4: To the to the equivalent in Paris, in London and
Speaker 4: in Milan. And what was really happening was the designers
Speaker 4: said that they were having too many shows per year
Speaker 4: that they have started hiring casting agents. And the casting
Speaker 4: agent decides he talks to the designer and they come
Speaker 4: up with the look of what the show is about.
Speaker 4: The casting agents decided to tell the modeling agents, we
Speaker 4: have not seen black models in this couple of coming seasons,
Speaker 4: so don't send us any black mans. And literally there
Speaker 4: was the absence of black mantins. And that's what it
Speaker 4: was called the blackout.
Speaker 2: That's the craziest thing I've ever heard.
Speaker 4: And so so what it what it really was transpired
Speaker 4: because I was I was trying to find out what
Speaker 4: what happened, How did this come about? And what was
Speaker 4: transpiring was that there was an influx of the Eastern.
Speaker 3: European marbles coming into the.
Speaker 4: Sea, and the big designers, specifically like Program, decided that
Speaker 4: they were head enough of the coat of personality of
Speaker 4: a marble like we don't want to show to be
Speaker 4: naomic amble at least.
Speaker 3: That Christie turned the names right, So.
Speaker 4: Democratized or the design and the focus is on the design.
Speaker 3: So they democratized that, and.
Speaker 4: So they have all these white Eastern European marbels, all
Speaker 4: white or skinny, and so there was no reason to
Speaker 4: have a black marble because it does not look this is.
Speaker 3: Not fit this category anymore.
Speaker 4: And once Brother started, every designer followed that out, and
Speaker 4: in within three four years.
Speaker 3: There was no model on them. And so that was
Speaker 3: the change that we were trying to make. And the
Speaker 3: change was instant, and it came actually from people like
Speaker 3: Product that.
Speaker 4: All of a sudden when they realized that what was
Speaker 4: going on, and they've corrected themselves. Not only that they
Speaker 4: started hiring black models on the runway, but the more
Speaker 4: importantly they started using black models in their advertisement.
Speaker 3: So there was a palpable change.
Speaker 4: And that's also what brought up the inclusivity part of
Speaker 4: the conversation that we.
Speaker 3: Were talking about.
Speaker 4: This was not saying that the designers are racist, but
Speaker 4: their actions and the actions of their casting agent is racist.
Speaker 4: Act specifically said, I mean, who's more busier than.
Speaker 3: Tom for no designers busier than Tom Ford. And he
Speaker 3: does his own custody. Of course he looks.
Speaker 4: He knows exactly who's in his STRATEGI you know, the black, Asian,
Speaker 4: the white.
Speaker 3: He knows that.
Speaker 4: So that's what we were trying to bring to the forefront,
Speaker 4: that you can't give the power to a casting agent
Speaker 4: to be able to say that on your behalf, because
Speaker 4: at the end of the day, is your name, the
Speaker 4: designer's name is being tainted.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm like, I'm literally like my jaws
Speaker 1: to the floor because i was like in this whole
Speaker 1: world very heavily at that time, and I'm literally running
Speaker 1: through my head of like what was going on in
Speaker 1: that moment, And I feel like, right now we're in
Speaker 1: a beautiful time and modeling I do. I think we're finally,
Speaker 1: I think we're at a great place where I'm seeing
Speaker 1: so much diversity and everywhere, which I'm I'm personally loving
Speaker 1: so so much, and I think it's only taken what
Speaker 1: fifty years, but we're here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, beauty is beauty, you know.
Speaker 2: Of course I.
Speaker 4: Feel that the idea like a girl like preciously or
Speaker 4: actually great is not beautiful. It goes over my head.
Speaker 4: I'm like that mentality. It's a d class. It's old
Speaker 4: fashioned and young people. So that's what's so great, you know.
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm sure you'll see it in your voice.
Speaker 4: It's like they don't see that because those are things
Speaker 4: that are taught, yes, the family.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they don't see that. They see it everybody.
Speaker 4: I mean, my daughter who's now twenty two has never
Speaker 4: called one of her friends white.
Speaker 3: Or black now.
Speaker 4: So it's that idea and the young generation are much
Speaker 4: aware and they are demystifying it and breaking it down
Speaker 4: that they are they're not going to be part of that.
Speaker 4: So that's what good news is that there is a
Speaker 4: hopefully young generation that comes up that's going to be
Speaker 4: the change of what we need.
Speaker 1: And I imagine I want to talk about bath Anne
Speaker 1: because bathanne Is She's one of my all time favorite
Speaker 1: people and I actually was fortunate enough to literally see
Speaker 1: her in the last month. I think I saw it
Speaker 1: in a event and I ran over and gave her
Speaker 1: the biggest hug, and she hadn't seen her in probably
Speaker 1: two years or more.
Speaker 2: And she is such a force.
Speaker 1: And I think that Bathanne is someone that I want
Speaker 1: my listeners to know about because she when I talk
Speaker 1: about game changers, game changing forces in an industry.
Speaker 2: I've known her my entire.
Speaker 1: Career and she always felt like this sort of like
Speaker 1: this mother figure in fashion and looking after everyone, to
Speaker 1: taking care of everybody. But she is just extraordinary and
Speaker 1: I feel like she's been a mentor in everything for you.
Speaker 3: I imagine, oh absolutely been my closest friends.
Speaker 4: Who was my maid of honor when I'm married my
Speaker 4: husband David. But I met her on my probably the
Speaker 4: first peak in New York, and I walked in into
Speaker 4: Stephen Burrough's studio and she was his assistant.
Speaker 3: And everybody assumed at that time.
Speaker 4: That I didn't speak a word of English, right, and
Speaker 4: so people will talk around me.
Speaker 1: And how many languages did you speak? Let me correct
Speaker 1: that notion five.
Speaker 2: Casual.
Speaker 4: So that Ann was there and they gave me the
Speaker 4: trust to try or put on the dress, and they
Speaker 4: gave me heels, and I've had a terrible time putting one.
Speaker 3: Heel on and trying to put the other one.
Speaker 1: While I was saying, because you're so tall, I have
Speaker 1: no problem with that.
Speaker 4: I know friends of mine sleep in AELs.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So no, he got on her knees to tie the shoes,
Speaker 5: to help me with the shoes, and I've never forgot
Speaker 5: that act of kindness and we've been friends since then.
Speaker 2: She's the greatest. So I have a question.
Speaker 1: So do you ever sit back and say, Okay, I've
Speaker 1: done I don't know ten thousand amazing things in my life.
Speaker 2: I'm good. I can just chill out now. Or do
Speaker 2: you just go what's next?
Speaker 1: I haven't even scratched the surface, Like when do you
Speaker 1: pat yourself on the back and say, okay, I can
Speaker 1: take a break.
Speaker 2: Because I don't.
Speaker 1: I'm guilty of never doing that, so I'm curious if
Speaker 1: you do.
Speaker 3: No, I don't bet.
Speaker 4: Myself in the back because I love to see how
Speaker 4: young girls who are getting into starting this this business,
Speaker 4: especially fashion business, how they are much aware of who
Speaker 4: came before them and who help them in this journey
Speaker 4: and who opened those doors that they are now easily
Speaker 4: walking into right, but then that they decide also then
Speaker 4: then it's upon them to move that needle forward or
Speaker 4: that we did right. So that to me, it's a
Speaker 4: comfort because you know that whatever you've done, you've touched
Speaker 4: some lives.
Speaker 3: But no, I think I'm better than you.
Speaker 4: I can just lie down and see I'm not doing anything.
Speaker 1: You And do you have any more specific like dreams
Speaker 1: where you're like, Okay, I'm not done, I still have
Speaker 1: to do this, or do you just say like life
Speaker 1: is going to be as it comes now?
Speaker 3: I think like is as it comes now because I've learned.
Speaker 4: For one thing if I've learned is that you know,
Speaker 4: man plans and God lefts.
Speaker 2: I lived by that. I just don't plan anything.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think if I was in my twenties, definitely
Speaker 3: I would be planning.
Speaker 4: But now I know things as they unfold themselves, you
Speaker 4: know what I mean, Things come and fold themselves. But
Speaker 4: I don't know. I mean, listen, I'm sixty seven, so
Speaker 4: anything is possible.
Speaker 3: One thing I'd like to do, which COVID stopped it.
Speaker 4: For me, was that I'd like to travel around the
Speaker 4: world in a lot of places that I have moved
Speaker 4: me so that.
Speaker 3: Is that's my life's journey.
Speaker 4: I really really want to go to all the places that.
Speaker 3: I have mod me.
Speaker 1: Well, you have earned that, and I could talk to
Speaker 1: you for another twenty six hours, but I'm not going
Speaker 1: to because I know you don't have that kind of time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm going to mention the Dobey series. It's Supreme Mardels.
Speaker 4: It's a six part dogy series and it's started yesterday and.
Speaker 3: It would be exclusive on YouTube every Monday.
Speaker 1: I have to say to everyone listening, you have to
Speaker 1: watch this. I have only seen bits of beginnings and
Speaker 1: I can tell you I cannot stop watching it. That
Speaker 1: the clothes, the Halston, and then Zandia and Tommy and listen.
Speaker 1: You are the Queen of Queen of Queen's. You have
Speaker 1: been such an advocate for women. I think that you
Speaker 1: have been such a game changer in this industry in
Speaker 1: so many ways. You know, as someone who has been
Speaker 1: in the industry is my entire adult life, you know
Speaker 1: that very often women cannot be that nice in this business.
Speaker 1: Certainly many were not to me, and I think many
Speaker 1: people honestly weren't. But I have to say, you have
Speaker 1: just always been the kindest classiest, amazing human being to
Speaker 1: me always as a friend, as men. You were literally
Speaker 1: the first one to hold my very first collaboration that
Speaker 1: I ever did in my whole life with Judith Leeber.
Speaker 4: Yes, and I have still have bad, bad but also
Speaker 4: I have in my artifives and Rachel Zhol's all taxedus,
Speaker 4: all of your taxedos I had, like white belvets.
Speaker 3: I have all.
Speaker 2: I love you. I love you.
Speaker 1: I can't I can't ever thank you enough for your
Speaker 1: support because I think you know better than anybody that
Speaker 1: when you're a designer, especially starting out, when you see
Speaker 1: someone in your clothes, there's just really nothing like it
Speaker 1: when it's emon. I'm not going to lie, it's a
Speaker 1: bit of a surreal moment. But I do love you madly.
Speaker 2: Imon.
Speaker 1: I think you because you've just made such a profound
Speaker 1: impact on me, on so many people in the industry,
Speaker 1: on so many young women coming up in it who
Speaker 1: are lost, and you have, like you said, open the
Speaker 1: door for so many. And also I just want to say,
Speaker 1: I mean you were amused to Celauran like can we
Speaker 1: just close on that moment? And Terry Buglaire, thank you,
Speaker 1: Loving my dream, my friend, living my Dream. If you
Speaker 1: want more climbing and hails content, follow me on at
Speaker 1: Rachel Zo and at Climbing in hals pod on Instagram
Speaker 1: for more updates on upcoming guests, episodes, and of course,
Speaker 1: all things cure Ator