1 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,799 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Rachel Zoe and you're listening to Climbing 2 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: in Heels for your weekly dose of glamour, inspiration and 3 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: of course fun. In honor fashion Month coming to an end, 4 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: I'm throwing it back and paying tribute to one of 5 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: my all time favorite fashion icons. 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 2: Emon. 7 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: Emon has truly pushed the boundaries of the fashion industry 8 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: by staying true to herself and what she believes in. 9 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: She is just the most iconic and gorgeous woman, and 10 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: I am so lucky to call her a friend. So 11 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: let's jump right in. 12 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 2: Hi darling, Oh my god, I miss you so much. 13 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:45,239 Speaker 3: How are you? How are you? 14 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 2: I'm so good? How are you? 15 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 4: I'm okay, I'm how's the kids? 16 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: They're so good? They're so bad. I mean there are 17 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: eleven and eight. I can't believe it. How are yours? 18 00:00:58,400 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 2: Big? Old? 19 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm My kids are. 20 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 3: Old and they are older, and I have three grandchildren. 21 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 2: I cannot believe you have grandchildren? 22 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 3: Yes? 23 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 2: Do they call you grandma or do you have another name? 24 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 3: Nana? 25 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,839 Speaker 1: I'm so happy to see you. You look stunning. 26 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 3: Oh thank you? 27 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 2: I do not Oh my. 28 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:28,040 Speaker 1: God, you so I started this podcast Climbing in Heels 29 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: because there are so many incredible superwomen in my life 30 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: that I've met along my journey, in my life and 31 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: in my career, and you have always stood out as 32 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: just one of the most elegant, beautiful souls, just beyond 33 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: your actual physical beauty. You've just always been this ray 34 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: of light in those crazy rooms in my life. And 35 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: you know what I'm taught talking about when you walk 36 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: into those rooms and it's crazy, and I would always 37 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: feel very lost and very small and very you know, intimidated, 38 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: And you were just always this strikingly tall, beautiful but 39 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 1: kind and friendly and still funny, always funny person in 40 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 1: my life. And so before I was getting on, I 41 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: was I was thinking about your journey and what an 42 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: incredible journey it's been. And I mean, it would take 43 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: us years to get through that, but I do want 44 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: to talk about because everybody knows who you are. Everybody 45 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: knows Emon the Queen, and so for my listeners, I 46 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 1: think it's very important to know, you know. I call 47 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 1: this podcast Climbing and Heels because I think that so 48 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: many of the women I know that get to where 49 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: they are, they don't sacrifice being a woman for it. 50 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: They don't sacrifice embracing their beauty and femininity as a 51 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:07,119 Speaker 1: woman and using their superpowers in various ways. And you're 52 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: such a good example of that. And so what I 53 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,519 Speaker 1: want to go to is just a little bit from 54 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: the beginning of like who were you as this child? 55 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: Were you always this person that was like I want 56 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:19,799 Speaker 1: to do a million things in my life, I need 57 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: to do this, this is or were you just like chill? 58 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 1: I can't imagine that you were, but please tell me yes, 59 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: person of. 60 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 4: All, as you said, I never would have thought of 61 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 4: you when you walk into a room that you were small. 62 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 4: You are not a small personality. That's a bad way. 63 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 4: So I don't know what you're talking about. Bed, you 64 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 4: own the room, money you walk in regards regardless of 65 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 4: how high your heels were, my journey, really it was 66 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 4: I never I've never envisioned myself of where my trajectory 67 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 4: or journey took me. I was always intending to major 68 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 4: in political science and follow the footsteps of my father, 69 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 4: who was an ambassador, so I was more into politics. 70 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 4: I've never seen fashion magazines, never board heels or make 71 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 4: up way before I came to the United States, So 72 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 4: I was an ambassador's daughter for many years, and then 73 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 4: in nineteen sixty nine, my country, Somalia, had had a 74 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 4: military regime took over and all the embassies were closed 75 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 4: and we all came back home and a lot of 76 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 4: people would either put in prison or execute it. 77 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 3: So my parents decided in the middle of the nineteen. 78 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 4: Nineteen seventy two that we were going to flee the country, 79 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 4: and so they put us in a vain and just 80 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:52,359 Speaker 4: drove to the border of Kenya and then we crossed 81 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 4: over by vote, just with the clothes on our back 82 00:04:55,440 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 4: and instantly became refugees. So when I I arrived in 83 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 4: any of that was my. 84 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 3: Lot in life. All I was trying to do was 85 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 3: actually trying to get a. 86 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 4: Scholarship to finish the university. And so I had no 87 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 4: no recollection of ever seeing a fashion. 88 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 3: Magazine in my life. 89 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 4: And one day while I was walking down the street 90 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 4: on my. 91 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 3: Way from one job to another. 92 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 4: And Peter beer to the photographer, stopped me in the 93 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:28,840 Speaker 4: street and asked me if I had ever been photographed. 94 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 4: So I had no idea what he was trying to 95 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:32,480 Speaker 4: talk about. I thought he was trying to pick. 96 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: Me up, and I said, you're probably like, huh, handsome 97 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 1: man asking to take my picture. 98 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 2: Interesting. 99 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 4: Yeah, and so he he said to me the magic word. 100 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 4: He said, I will pay you and I said, well 101 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 4: how much? He said, well, how much do you need? 102 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 4: And I said it's eight thousand dollars. That was the 103 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 4: question for one year and he said, okay, I'll pay you. 104 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 3: And he took pictures of me just and. 105 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 4: I had a friend with me, and so he took 106 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 4: these pictures of me and then I thought I'll never 107 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 4: see him again. And three months later I didn't have 108 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 4: our staying at the in campus at the university, I 109 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 4: didn't have a phone. 110 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 3: So he had a friend of mine who worked at Pannan. 111 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 3: This is how. 112 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 2: My god. 113 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 4: He called her and told her to let me know 114 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 4: that he wants to talk to me. So I went 115 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 4: there to her office the next day and it was Wilhelmina, 116 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 4: who owned Wilhelmina agency agency and him on the phone 117 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 4: and they both said, me saw the pictures. She said, 118 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 4: she saw the pictures. She's going to send me a ticket. 119 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 4: I could become a big model. And I had no 120 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 4: idea what they were talking about. And the only thing 121 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 4: I asked for was a return ticket back home if 122 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 4: I didn't have if I didn't want to stay, and 123 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 4: I still have the ticket. 124 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 2: Oh my god, I bet you do. 125 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 4: Yes, I do, I do, And so I give into 126 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 4: the United States and. 127 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,799 Speaker 3: On my Thursday in New York, I was working for vote. 128 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: That's the sickest thing ever. Yeah, but it just, honestly, 129 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: it just shows that you were just so smart and 130 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: clever about how you conducted yourself in life, no matter 131 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: what like meaning you were. You were living in a 132 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: not ideal situation, right, I mean you left with nothing 133 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: but the clothes in your back, basically starting your life. 134 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 2: So how old were you when you came to New York. 135 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: I was barely nineteen, barely nineteen, barely nineteen. 136 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, but I thought I was just really checking out 137 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 4: what they were talking about the industry. I had no 138 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 4: intention of actually staying. And then when things happened for me, 139 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 4: it was an opportunity for me to be able to 140 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 4: send my brothers and sisters so they can finish their education, yeah, 141 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 4: and take care of my parents. 142 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 3: So that's what really the industry has, you know, was 143 00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 3: helpful to me, sure. 144 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 4: But objectory of my life completely changed, you know, in 145 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 4: just one instant of being photographed by. 146 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: Peter, and I think you know, to some extent that 147 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: still happens now. I feel like, right, I mean it's 148 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: such a massive conversation, but I mean you broke down endless, 149 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: countless walls in the modeling industry. 150 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 2: You were so. 151 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: Much more than like a beautiful model. It was sort 152 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: of like emon, right, It was sort of like the 153 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: one word, the one name, the like that, and you 154 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: really just stood out because I what's funny is what 155 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 1: I remember so well, of course, is what you wore. 156 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 1: You know, you know, this sort of like model off 157 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: duty look of like the jeans and T shirts and 158 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: sneakers and whatever. 159 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:47,439 Speaker 2: I don't have any image of you in that. 160 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 1: I have images of you and like Halston, Bob Mackie, 161 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: like I guess one of my questions is to you 162 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: is like were you obsessed with it? 163 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 2: Were you loving it? Were you living for the sort 164 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 2: of fashion of it? Were you like? 165 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: It just seems to me that you had such a 166 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: deep love and still do to this day. And look 167 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: at you right now, You're not in jeans and a 168 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: T shirt. 169 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 4: But no, I was not obsessed with it because I 170 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 4: was learning on the job. 171 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 3: But what what it opened the doors for me? 172 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 4: It is things that regular people are not don't experience. 173 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 4: I mean, my first walk on the runway was for Halston, right, 174 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 4: and I've never. 175 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 3: Forget when I went to see him in his. 176 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 4: Massive Olympic Tower studio with all the mirrors everywhere, and 177 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 4: he had an ever present cigarette in his hand and 178 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 4: a hand in his pocket. 179 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,679 Speaker 1: And a turtlekneck and turtlet, but a hand in his pocket, 180 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: even although he was in his office. 181 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 4: He was almost posy, exactly exactly, and he said to me, Darling, 182 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,960 Speaker 4: can you walk? I said, how the f do you 183 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 4: think I got here? But he said, Okay, I know 184 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 4: you just came from Africa, but walking here is different 185 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 4: than walking out the street. So and that was the 186 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 4: first time I even learned about the world walking in 187 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,719 Speaker 4: our industry, what it means that it doesn't. 188 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 3: Mean just walking down the street. 189 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, so yeah, and so you're exposed to that. But 190 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 4: really the level of understanding the fashion industry and its 191 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:36,199 Speaker 4: designers came to me when one season some Lavan asked 192 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 4: me to be his muse for Thekuturu collection. 193 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 1: You realize that my whole insights are collapsing as you 194 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: say this, right, this is literally like it's it's almost 195 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: like you're singing this song to me of dreams. Okay, 196 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 1: it was like Halston walking into a studio and then 197 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: and it. 198 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 4: Was really first of all, I was clueless what amuse meant? 199 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 4: So I thought there were like, there would be lots 200 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 4: of girls, other girls, but it was only me. And 201 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 4: he literally had bolts of fabric that he cut on 202 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 4: my body. He was creating the collection as. 203 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:13,559 Speaker 3: I was standing right there. And when he. 204 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 4: Finished, the collection was called The African Queen and David 205 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 4: Bailey took the pictures and you know that, So you 206 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 4: had that level of couture collections and understanding these colorless 207 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 4: and things and you know, jewelry. 208 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 3: And amazing, amazing hyper environment. 209 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 4: And then cut to Terry Mugler and Claude Montana and 210 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 4: John Cabot here who was the three Los von in Paris, 211 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 4: and then he. 212 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,959 Speaker 3: Became the muse of Terry Mugler, who was like an. 213 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:55,679 Speaker 4: Ng M film director because all his shows looked like. 214 00:11:54,240 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 3: Like scenes from Seems exactly exactly. So you know, so 215 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 3: there is. 216 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 4: That experience and what you have in fashion is that 217 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 4: we literally I used to call it literally the circus 218 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 4: because you know, we'll go to Paris and the tents 219 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 4: will blow up. 220 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, yes it's true. 221 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 4: And we will be there and doing all kinds of 222 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 4: crazy fashions and the tents come back down and we 223 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 4: moved onto another city. So it's like really running away 224 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 4: with the circles being with fashion. 225 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 2: I need to put that on a T shirt. 226 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:30,679 Speaker 1: So, I mean, you know, I always like to know 227 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: what that moment that changed your life and your career was. 228 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 1: I mean, it would obviously be the Peter Bard moment, right, 229 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:39,719 Speaker 1: I mean, but there was probably many. 230 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 4: Yes, there were many, but that was really you know, 231 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 4: that that opened the door. And then there were like 232 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 4: the designers obviously who from the Givangis to the ifs 233 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,199 Speaker 4: on alone who used lots of sixty percent of their 234 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 4: cabine on runway with black models of Asian models. So 235 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 4: you had really at that time, really had through inclusivity. Yeah, 236 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:08,199 Speaker 4: not by world, but really existed, right. But for me 237 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 4: as my trajectory. 238 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,959 Speaker 3: What changes was really becoming used to uh to Terry. 239 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 4: Mugler, because I remember every shows that I would go 240 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 4: and you know, as a black model, most of the 241 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 4: design most of the hairdressers didn't know how. 242 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 3: To do with our hair. 243 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 4: So immediately they just just pull it back in a shoon, right. 244 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 4: So Terry Mugler was the first person who said, you know, 245 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,199 Speaker 4: think of your craziest dreams and we'll go for it. 246 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 4: And it's for the first time where I met a hairdresser, 247 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 4: a black hairdresser in New York who did hair extensions, 248 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 4: and she did the hair extensions, and I arrived in Paris, 249 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 4: and you would think that they have so seen me 250 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 4: in a different light because now, all of a sudden, 251 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 4: my head could be straight, it would be curly, it could. 252 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 3: Be an afroc, you know. So that completely changed. 253 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 4: The trajectory of my real bresiness because all of a 254 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 4: sudden we were seen in a different blood. 255 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: That's so interesting. And then I imagine that the same 256 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: thing probably happened with makeup, yep, because that's something you 257 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 1: and I have talked about that And I remember when 258 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: you launched your makeup and you said, I needed to 259 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: make a line of makeup for us because nobody at 260 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: the shows was able to match your skin tone to 261 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: the foundation and da da da, And so tell me 262 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: about that, because I think that is so incredibly important 263 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: to know and I think for everyone to really understand. 264 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly because nowa there's a lot of young people 265 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 4: are really letting in an environment where fency exists, you know, 266 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 4: so they don't know where actually this could have come from. Yes, 267 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 4: and as lovely as Lehanna has invented that, there were 268 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:53,239 Speaker 4: other smaller companies before I started that they were trying 269 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 4: to do, but there was not really a marketplace for us. 270 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 4: But in nineteen seventy five, my first job when I 271 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 4: arrived was American Vogue, and the shoot there was a 272 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 4: Caucasian model and I and it was with Arthur Elbert, 273 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 4: and there was a makeup artist and he started doing 274 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 4: the white girl's makeup, and then when he came to 275 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 4: my turn, he asked me a very perplexing question because 276 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 4: I knew it was not lost on me that he 277 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 4: did not ask that question to the other girl, And 278 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 4: he said, did you bring your own foundation? 279 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 3: Because he had nothing for me. 280 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 4: So he started mixing products and put it on my face, 281 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 4: and when I looked in the mirror, I looked gray. 282 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 3: And so I thought after that shoot, I thought, if 283 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 3: I survived this shoot, I'm going to find out some 284 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 3: kind of a way that I. 285 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 4: Can get something in the marketplace and mix a product 286 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 4: that I can use and take it. 287 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 3: With me to the shoots because they don't have it. 288 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 4: And just the gods of fashion was looking after me. 289 00:15:55,600 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 4: Pictures in black and white, and black and white. It's 290 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 4: multitude of sins. 291 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 2: Oh my god. Okay. 292 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 4: So I went and bought all these foundations that I found, 293 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 4: things that have a little bit of a tent, and 294 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 4: I mixed it and I had the original selfish the 295 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 4: polaroid and I'll put the makeup on and I'll take 296 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 4: I'll take a picture of myself just to see it. 297 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 3: How will it translate it into photography? 298 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 4: Because at the end of the day, as a model, 299 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 4: image is my parents. 300 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 3: Nobody cares about how I really is. How do I 301 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 3: do I translate into photographs? And I wanted to have 302 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 3: some kind of a control of that. 303 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 4: So I never went to a job without having something 304 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:45,119 Speaker 4: in my pocket. And when I started doing the runways 305 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 4: and I would be doing my makeup, every black marble 306 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 4: would come to me and she says, let me see 307 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 4: what you have? Can I use some of yous? 308 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 3: Wow? And so from there the. 309 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 4: Seed of creating Imaan Cosmetics was in my head. And 310 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 4: when I stopped modeling in nineteen eighty nine I created 311 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 4: in nineteen ninety forty nine. 312 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 3: Pluses. 313 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 1: Wow, Yes, it's weird, though I don't I feel like 314 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 1: you still model? Yes, I mean I feel like you're 315 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: still modeled. Like, what do you mean you're still modeling? 316 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: You did not stop in eighty nine? 317 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 3: What? Let me tell you. In nineteen eighty nine, my 318 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 3: last show was for. 319 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 4: Thierry Millblair, his first Cotol collection, and I said bye, 320 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 4: and I told everybody. 321 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 3: That was that was my last show. 322 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 4: And I remember because it was very poignant and very sweet. 323 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 4: All the photographers in the marsh pat came on the 324 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 4: stage and took the last picture with me. I have 325 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 4: to tell you, I have not been to a fashion 326 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 4: show since nineteen eighty nine. 327 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 2: No, you haven't been to one, or you haven't walked 328 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:51,120 Speaker 2: in one. 329 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:53,199 Speaker 4: I have not walked in one, and I have not 330 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 4: been in what well, if you think. 331 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 3: About it, I've worked with mostly all the designers and 332 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 3: so who So I'm I'm going to go to go. 333 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 1: There's no way that you have not been asked four 334 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:07,639 Speaker 1: hundred times to walk a show, not. 335 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 4: Like as recent as last. 336 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 3: I was gonna say, but I don't. 337 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:23,360 Speaker 2: Now a word from our sponsor that is real. It's 338 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 2: actually really. 339 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: Incredible because how many times do icons retire and then 340 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: like a month later they're like, just kidding, just kidding, 341 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 1: I'm coming back. And I feel like I've seen it 342 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:39,680 Speaker 1: with countless like singers and actors, and everyone's like, I'm done, 343 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: I'm done. 344 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 2: I'm quitting. I'm quitting, even like Tom Brady quitting. Just kidding. 345 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,919 Speaker 4: But but he's going to be in trouble with if 346 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:46,719 Speaker 4: he doesn't keep up. 347 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:47,400 Speaker 3: I know it. 348 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's listen, yes, okay, Emon Cosmetics. 349 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 2: It's amazing, it's beautiful. 350 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: You've done I feel like hundreds of thousands of things 351 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: because I just feel like you're such this large presence 352 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,119 Speaker 1: and you're you have so much to say about things. 353 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 4: You know. I've written two books, you know, very successful books. 354 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 4: One was on beauty and was called The Beauty of Color, 355 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 4: and it was the ultimate guy for skin of color. 356 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 4: And and it was not just for black women, it 357 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 4: was also for latinis because I built my forward and 358 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 4: I had. 359 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 3: Aba Mendez and you know Jay Jagg and you know. 360 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:33,680 Speaker 4: Everybody under this under that umbrella as a global community 361 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,120 Speaker 4: and as beauty that is not the. 362 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 3: Standard of just white. 363 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 4: And then I wrote a book called I Am in Man, 364 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:44,120 Speaker 4: which was photography and and and my story about how 365 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 4: I from my where I came. 366 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 3: From doing this industry. 367 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 4: Uh and you know, and then during COVID, I was 368 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 4: contacted by YouTube and these directors with them and they. 369 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 3: Were going to They wanted to talk to me about. 370 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,679 Speaker 4: A doggy series that called Supreme Models, which was based 371 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 4: on a book called Supreme Models, which is black models 372 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 4: who revolutionized fashion industry. So I said to them, you know, 373 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 4: I said to them, what are you bringing to the 374 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:13,640 Speaker 4: table that has not been. 375 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 3: Said about black beauty and black models? 376 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 4: And they said, are you aware that there has never 377 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 4: been a documentary on black beauty or black marbles, which 378 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 4: was surprising to me at twenty twenty one that there 379 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 4: has nothing else existence. So that's how I came on 380 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 4: board and we did the dog series and it is 381 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 4: really beautiful and it is not more about the trials 382 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:40,120 Speaker 4: and tribulations, although we do talk about that, but it's 383 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 4: more about the joy and celebration of black beauty and 384 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 4: what that singularly black fashion model, or how she was 385 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,959 Speaker 4: responsible for cultural changes that has been going through in 386 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,160 Speaker 4: our industry from black is beautiful in. 387 00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 3: The nineteen sixties till now. 388 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 4: So that's the whole all history of black mons and 389 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 4: black culture and black beauty till now. 390 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:05,399 Speaker 3: What's going on? 391 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 2: And Zendia is in there? Who I. 392 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:10,400 Speaker 3: She is? 393 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 2: How impressed are you with her? 394 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 3: I'm beyond she is. 395 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 2: She's mind boggling. 396 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, more important than how young she is. 397 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:21,199 Speaker 2: It's actually unreal. 398 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: She's so she's so young, and she's so gifted, and 399 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: she's so she's so clear, like even just when I've 400 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,439 Speaker 1: seen her win countless awards in person and from afar, 401 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: and I have to say, like the way that she 402 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 1: speaks with conviction and at such a young age, she's 403 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,360 Speaker 1: just she's really special. 404 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 2: I mean, she's so impressive. 405 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:56,360 Speaker 4: Absolutely, absolutely, you know That's what I'm usually I'm impressed 406 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 4: with is young, how young she is, and how to 407 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 4: get though she is, which is yeah, No. 408 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 3: She's lovely, She's lovely. 409 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 4: I have the pleasure of she asked me to award 410 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 4: how to give her the award as a fashion icon. 411 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 1: Award, as it should be, but both deserved by the way. 412 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 2: I loved watching you get that award. That was the best. 413 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 2: That was the best. 414 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: So okay, so you've had obviously quite a journey. In 415 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 1: any journey, there's so many adversities, there's so many challenges, 416 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 1: and you know the thing is, I think you've broken 417 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: down so many walls, ceilings, doors for people. On the 418 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: one hand, you know, it was a different time than 419 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: it is now. Now, I feel like there's so much 420 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 1: more inclusivity and everything like that, and there's so much 421 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: less tolerance for such terrible treatment to any model. Honestly, 422 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: what strikes you as something that you'll like never forget, 423 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: something that really knocked you down where you were, like, 424 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: I cannot believe if this's just happened, and I cannot 425 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: believe how angry I am. But guess what this is 426 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 1: going to passed me off so much that now I 427 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: have to like do more. I have to change this 428 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 1: or I have to you know, I imagine there's been some triggers. 429 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 3: Yes. 430 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 4: The first one was when I arrived in New York 431 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,360 Speaker 4: in nineteen seventy five and I started working. 432 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 3: I found out. 433 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 4: That that the pay between. 434 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 3: Black modles and white models was not the same. 435 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,880 Speaker 4: Black mouths chold were being paid less for the same job. 436 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,439 Speaker 4: So I said to Wilhelmina, I said, listen, definitely this 437 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 4: is and places act, but let's take place even out 438 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 4: of the equation. I said, what I want, what I'm 439 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 4: demanding is for services winter if somebody is doing the 440 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 4: same job like I am, I want to be paying 441 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 4: the same amount. And it was like then the clients 442 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 4: will not go for it, blah bla blah blah, And 443 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 4: I said, Okay, you know I'm gonna I'm not going 444 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 4: to be working. I just want to tell you I'm 445 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 4: not going to be working till all these changes. It 446 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 4: took three months, but the first client did make that 447 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 4: change and that became that change. But that was in 448 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 4: nineteen seventy five. So forward to twenty thirty. I'm not 449 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 4: modeling anymore. I'm only doing in man cosmetics. A friend 450 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 4: of mine contacts me by the name of the fan Hardison. 451 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,680 Speaker 2: I was just going to ask you about that, queen. 452 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 4: And she said, I'm going to send you an article 453 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 4: in the New York Times. 454 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 3: This is twenty thirteen, and the article said. 455 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 4: The blonde leading the blonde, And it was what was 456 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,439 Speaker 4: happening on the runways across Europe and now in the 457 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:45,400 Speaker 4: United States. 458 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,360 Speaker 3: There was a black out of black marbles. There was 459 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,640 Speaker 3: not one single black Mardel. 460 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 4: Used to that season, right, but we're talking about now 461 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 4: we're going to a three year period. 462 00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 3: I had no idea because I was not in the 463 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 3: industry right right. 464 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 4: And so that Anne I and ao A Cambell have 465 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 4: sat together and looked through all the collections that there's 466 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 4: and there was absence of black mantains across the board. 467 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,679 Speaker 4: We've never seen anything like and so we decided to 468 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:16,120 Speaker 4: write to. 469 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 3: The CFDA and then we disp We wrote. 470 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 4: To the to the equivalent in Paris, in London and 471 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 4: in Milan. And what was really happening was the designers 472 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 4: said that they were having too many shows per year 473 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:35,160 Speaker 4: that they have started hiring casting agents. And the casting 474 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 4: agent decides he talks to the designer and they come 475 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 4: up with the look of what the show is about. 476 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 4: The casting agents decided to tell the modeling agents, we 477 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 4: have not seen black models in this couple of coming seasons, 478 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 4: so don't send us any black mans. And literally there 479 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 4: was the absence of black mantins. And that's what it 480 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 4: was called the blackout. 481 00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,360 Speaker 2: That's the craziest thing I've ever heard. 482 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 4: And so so what it what it really was transpired 483 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 4: because I was I was trying to find out what 484 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,679 Speaker 4: what happened, How did this come about? And what was 485 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 4: transpiring was that there was an influx of the Eastern. 486 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,640 Speaker 3: European marbles coming into the. 487 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 4: Sea, and the big designers, specifically like Program, decided that 488 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 4: they were head enough of the coat of personality of 489 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,199 Speaker 4: a marble like we don't want to show to be 490 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 4: naomic amble at least. 491 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 3: That Christie turned the names right, So. 492 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 4: Democratized or the design and the focus is on the design. 493 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 3: So they democratized that, and. 494 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 4: So they have all these white Eastern European marbels, all 495 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,199 Speaker 4: white or skinny, and so there was no reason to 496 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 4: have a black marble because it does not look this is. 497 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,360 Speaker 3: Not fit this category anymore. 498 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 4: And once Brother started, every designer followed that out, and 499 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 4: in within three four years. 500 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 3: There was no model on them. And so that was 501 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 3: the change that we were trying to make. And the 502 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 3: change was instant, and it came actually from people like 503 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:08,880 Speaker 3: Product that. 504 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 4: All of a sudden when they realized that what was 505 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,919 Speaker 4: going on, and they've corrected themselves. Not only that they 506 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 4: started hiring black models on the runway, but the more 507 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 4: importantly they started using black models in their advertisement. 508 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 3: So there was a palpable change. 509 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 4: And that's also what brought up the inclusivity part of 510 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 4: the conversation that we. 511 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:31,679 Speaker 3: Were talking about. 512 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 4: This was not saying that the designers are racist, but 513 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 4: their actions and the actions of their casting agent is racist. 514 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 4: Act specifically said, I mean, who's more busier than. 515 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 3: Tom for no designers busier than Tom Ford. And he 516 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,399 Speaker 3: does his own custody. Of course he looks. 517 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:57,679 Speaker 4: He knows exactly who's in his STRATEGI you know, the black, Asian, 518 00:27:57,760 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 4: the white. 519 00:27:58,520 --> 00:27:59,199 Speaker 3: He knows that. 520 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 4: So that's what we were trying to bring to the forefront, 521 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 4: that you can't give the power to a casting agent 522 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,199 Speaker 4: to be able to say that on your behalf, because 523 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 4: at the end of the day, is your name, the 524 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 4: designer's name is being tainted. 525 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm like, I'm literally like my jaws 526 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: to the floor because i was like in this whole 527 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 1: world very heavily at that time, and I'm literally running 528 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,679 Speaker 1: through my head of like what was going on in 529 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,679 Speaker 1: that moment, And I feel like, right now we're in 530 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: a beautiful time and modeling I do. I think we're finally, 531 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:31,959 Speaker 1: I think we're at a great place where I'm seeing 532 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 1: so much diversity and everywhere, which I'm I'm personally loving 533 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 1: so so much, and I think it's only taken what 534 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: fifty years, but we're here. 535 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, beauty is beauty, you know. 536 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 2: Of course I. 537 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 4: Feel that the idea like a girl like preciously or 538 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 4: actually great is not beautiful. It goes over my head. 539 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 4: I'm like that mentality. It's a d class. It's old 540 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 4: fashioned and young people. So that's what's so great, you know. 541 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 4: I mean, I'm sure you'll see it in your voice. 542 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 4: It's like they don't see that because those are things 543 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 4: that are taught, yes, the family. 544 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, they don't see that. They see it everybody. 545 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 4: I mean, my daughter who's now twenty two has never 546 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 4: called one of her friends white. 547 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 3: Or black now. 548 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 4: So it's that idea and the young generation are much 549 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 4: aware and they are demystifying it and breaking it down 550 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 4: that they are they're not going to be part of that. 551 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 4: So that's what good news is that there is a 552 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 4: hopefully young generation that comes up that's going to be 553 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 4: the change of what we need. 554 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: And I imagine I want to talk about bath Anne 555 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: because bathanne Is She's one of my all time favorite 556 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: people and I actually was fortunate enough to literally see 557 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: her in the last month. I think I saw it 558 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: in a event and I ran over and gave her 559 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,959 Speaker 1: the biggest hug, and she hadn't seen her in probably 560 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: two years or more. 561 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 2: And she is such a force. 562 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: And I think that Bathanne is someone that I want 563 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 1: my listeners to know about because she when I talk 564 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 1: about game changers, game changing forces in an industry. 565 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 2: I've known her my entire. 566 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 1: Career and she always felt like this sort of like 567 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 1: this mother figure in fashion and looking after everyone, to 568 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: taking care of everybody. But she is just extraordinary and 569 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: I feel like she's been a mentor in everything for you. 570 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 3: I imagine, oh absolutely been my closest friends. 571 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 4: Who was my maid of honor when I'm married my 572 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,239 Speaker 4: husband David. But I met her on my probably the 573 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 4: first peak in New York, and I walked in into 574 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 4: Stephen Burrough's studio and she was his assistant. 575 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 3: And everybody assumed at that time. 576 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 4: That I didn't speak a word of English, right, and 577 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 4: so people will talk around me. 578 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: And how many languages did you speak? Let me correct 579 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: that notion five. 580 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 2: Casual. 581 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 4: So that Ann was there and they gave me the 582 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,719 Speaker 4: trust to try or put on the dress, and they 583 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 4: gave me heels, and I've had a terrible time putting one. 584 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 3: Heel on and trying to put the other one. 585 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,719 Speaker 1: While I was saying, because you're so tall, I have 586 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: no problem with that. 587 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 4: I know friends of mine sleep in AELs. 588 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 3: Yeah. 589 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 5: So no, he got on her knees to tie the shoes, 590 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 5: to help me with the shoes, and I've never forgot 591 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 5: that act of kindness and we've been friends since then. 592 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 2: She's the greatest. So I have a question. 593 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: So do you ever sit back and say, Okay, I've 594 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: done I don't know ten thousand amazing things in my life. 595 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 2: I'm good. I can just chill out now. Or do 596 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 2: you just go what's next? 597 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 1: I haven't even scratched the surface, Like when do you 598 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 1: pat yourself on the back and say, okay, I can 599 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: take a break. 600 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 2: Because I don't. 601 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: I'm guilty of never doing that, so I'm curious if 602 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: you do. 603 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 3: No, I don't bet. 604 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 4: Myself in the back because I love to see how 605 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 4: young girls who are getting into starting this this business, 606 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 4: especially fashion business, how they are much aware of who 607 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 4: came before them and who help them in this journey 608 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 4: and who opened those doors that they are now easily 609 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 4: walking into right, but then that they decide also then 610 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 4: then it's upon them to move that needle forward or 611 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 4: that we did right. So that to me, it's a 612 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 4: comfort because you know that whatever you've done, you've touched 613 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 4: some lives. 614 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 3: But no, I think I'm better than you. 615 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 4: I can just lie down and see I'm not doing anything. 616 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: You And do you have any more specific like dreams 617 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,719 Speaker 1: where you're like, Okay, I'm not done, I still have 618 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 1: to do this, or do you just say like life 619 00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: is going to be as it comes now? 620 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 3: I think like is as it comes now because I've learned. 621 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 4: For one thing if I've learned is that you know, 622 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 4: man plans and God lefts. 623 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 2: I lived by that. I just don't plan anything. 624 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think if I was in my twenties, definitely 625 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 3: I would be planning. 626 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 4: But now I know things as they unfold themselves, you 627 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 4: know what I mean, Things come and fold themselves. But 628 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 4: I don't know. I mean, listen, I'm sixty seven, so 629 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 4: anything is possible. 630 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 3: One thing I'd like to do, which COVID stopped it. 631 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 4: For me, was that I'd like to travel around the 632 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 4: world in a lot of places that I have moved 633 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 4: me so that. 634 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 3: Is that's my life's journey. 635 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 4: I really really want to go to all the places that. 636 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 3: I have mod me. 637 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: Well, you have earned that, and I could talk to 638 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: you for another twenty six hours, but I'm not going 639 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 1: to because I know you don't have that kind of time. 640 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm going to mention the Dobey series. It's Supreme Mardels. 641 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 4: It's a six part dogy series and it's started yesterday and. 642 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 3: It would be exclusive on YouTube every Monday. 643 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 1: I have to say to everyone listening, you have to 644 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 1: watch this. I have only seen bits of beginnings and 645 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: I can tell you I cannot stop watching it. That 646 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 1: the clothes, the Halston, and then Zandia and Tommy and listen. 647 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 1: You are the Queen of Queen of Queen's. You have 648 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: been such an advocate for women. I think that you 649 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 1: have been such a game changer in this industry in 650 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,440 Speaker 1: so many ways. You know, as someone who has been 651 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 1: in the industry is my entire adult life, you know 652 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,280 Speaker 1: that very often women cannot be that nice in this business. 653 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 1: Certainly many were not to me, and I think many 654 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 1: people honestly weren't. But I have to say, you have 655 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:58,319 Speaker 1: just always been the kindest classiest, amazing human being to 656 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 1: me always as a friend, as men. You were literally 657 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: the first one to hold my very first collaboration that 658 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: I ever did in my whole life with Judith Leeber. 659 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,720 Speaker 4: Yes, and I have still have bad, bad but also 660 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:14,880 Speaker 4: I have in my artifives and Rachel Zhol's all taxedus, 661 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 4: all of your taxedos I had, like white belvets. 662 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 3: I have all. 663 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 2: I love you. I love you. 664 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: I can't I can't ever thank you enough for your 665 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 1: support because I think you know better than anybody that 666 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 1: when you're a designer, especially starting out, when you see 667 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 1: someone in your clothes, there's just really nothing like it 668 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: when it's emon. I'm not going to lie, it's a 669 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 1: bit of a surreal moment. But I do love you madly. 670 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 2: Imon. 671 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,360 Speaker 1: I think you because you've just made such a profound 672 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 1: impact on me, on so many people in the industry, 673 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 1: on so many young women coming up in it who 674 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 1: are lost, and you have, like you said, open the 675 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 1: door for so many. And also I just want to say, 676 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: I mean you were amused to Celauran like can we 677 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 1: just close on that moment? And Terry Buglaire, thank you, 678 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,719 Speaker 1: Loving my dream, my friend, living my Dream. If you 679 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,839 Speaker 1: want more climbing and hails content, follow me on at 680 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,880 Speaker 1: Rachel Zo and at Climbing in hals pod on Instagram 681 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 1: for more updates on upcoming guests, episodes, and of course, 682 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:15,880 Speaker 1: all things cure Ator