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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. According to witnesses, Mommy is

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Speaker 1: all dolled up, taking countless selfies and singing into her

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Speaker 1: iPhone while her top son, just three years old, drowns,

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Speaker 1: and tonight she's suing the water park. Good evening, I'm

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us. The water park just got sued. But according

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Speaker 1: to witnesses, Mommy was in a completely different area, left

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Speaker 1: her son alone for over an hour while she took

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Speaker 1: selfies and sang into her iPhone. I never thought about

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Speaker 1: putting on a mouthful of red lipstick to go to

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Speaker 1: the water park with the twins, but to each her own.

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Speaker 1: Joining us an all star panel to make sense of

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Speaker 1: what we are hearing right now, this is what we

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Speaker 1: understand as to how the day started.

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Speaker 2: It's a beautiful Mother's Day weekend when Jessica Weaver and

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Speaker 2: her three year old son Anthony arrive at El Paso's

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Speaker 2: Camp Cohen water Park. The little boy is playing in

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Speaker 2: a four feet deep section of the pool while his

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Speaker 2: mother is lying out in the sun. Jessica entertains herself

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Speaker 2: with her phone while Anthony is seen eating chips and

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Speaker 2: spitting them out in the water as he plays. His

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Speaker 2: mother doesn't seem to notice or care as other parents

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Speaker 2: get frustrated at the disgusting addition to the water.

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Speaker 1: Joining me and All Star panel straight out to Elaine

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Speaker 1: Aadiaz investigative reporter, Alaine, thank you for being with us. Okay, So,

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Speaker 1: the first sign of trouble was when all the other

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Speaker 1: moms see the little three year old spitting his food

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Speaker 1: back into the water.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: In fact, one mother actually called the police and reported this,

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Speaker 4: this is not something you want to endure after spending

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Speaker 4: all this money to go into a water park have

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Speaker 4: a good time, you have an expectation of clean water.

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Speaker 1: You know, although when you know there are a bunch

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Speaker 1: of children in the water, I mean aligne. They all

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Speaker 1: tete in the pool. So I'm not sure what potato

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Speaker 1: chips spit back in the water, how that's going to

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Speaker 1: change anything. But it's very overt that the child is there.

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Speaker 1: It's not the child's fault. And how long did that go?

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Speaker 5: Well, go ahead, I mean, I think that's a good example.

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Speaker 4: That his mother was not monitoring him, right, Because yes,

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Speaker 4: it is a huge water park, has a capacity of

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Speaker 4: you know, hosting fourteen hundred people, and so you know,

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Speaker 4: kids are having a good time, But where was Jessica Weaver,

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Speaker 4: the boy's mother, while this is happening, And so you know,

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Speaker 4: he's out there plane and she's on her phone the

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Speaker 4: entire time, according to witnesses.

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Speaker 1: You know align On Idias joining us high profile investigative

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Speaker 1: reporter Aligne. When the children, my twins were taughts, I

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Speaker 1: remember specifically being at Disney and I think they have

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Speaker 1: something called typhoon, lagoon something like that, and every X

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Speaker 1: number of seconds waves come out. They actually make waves,

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Speaker 1: and I kept telling them no, no, no, no, you

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Speaker 1: can't go there. They wanted to get in so badly.

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Speaker 1: I was a nervous wreck watching the trying to watch

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Speaker 1: two at the same time when those waves would come.

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Speaker 1: The thought of them being alone in the water, I

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Speaker 1: mean to Karen started joining me, our renowned psychologists joining

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Speaker 1: us from the Manhattan Jurisdiction, TV radio trauma expert. I

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Speaker 1: guess that's a personal fear because I had a water

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Speaker 1: accident as a young girl and almost drowned. That said,

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Speaker 1: don't we as humans have an innate fear of the

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Speaker 1: water where we're kind of on our guard.

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Speaker 6: Well, it's not natural for us to just dive in

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Speaker 6: the water. And usually when you're very young, unlike what

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Speaker 6: happened to you, Nancy, you wind up taking away that

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Speaker 6: fear goes away. You learn how to slim or be

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Speaker 6: in the water, to do something that keeps you alive. However,

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Speaker 6: in this situation, we're talking about a three year old

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Speaker 6: and a parent that's not being vigilant, and that goes

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Speaker 6: against that innate desire to protect your child and make

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Speaker 6: sure they're not.

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Speaker 5: Going to be in danger.

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Speaker 1: You know, we're learning a lot about what witnesses are saying,

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Speaker 1: but listen to this.

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Speaker 7: The fun sounds of children playing at Camp Cohen water

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Speaker 7: Park is interrupted by lifeguard's blowing whistles telling everyone to

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Speaker 7: get out of the pool. An unconscious boy not wearing

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Speaker 7: a life jacket is pulled out of a four foot

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Speaker 7: deep section of water. Multiple signs at Camp Cohen state

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Speaker 7: that children six and younger must be directly attended by

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Speaker 7: a swimming adult at all times, and must be supervised

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Speaker 7: by an adult within arms reach. Parents gather around as guards,

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Speaker 7: but again life saving measures, but the victim's parents aren't found.

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Speaker 1: You know another thing. Eric Fattus joining me, criminal defense attorney,

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Speaker 1: civil litigator founding partner Varner fattest Elite Legal. Eric, you

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Speaker 1: know you can't judge a book by its cover. Not judging,

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Speaker 1: don't care. I have seen defendants that are gorgeous and beautiful.

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Speaker 1: I've seen them looking like they have just rolled out

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Speaker 1: from under a bridge or just rolled out of bed.

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Speaker 1: I've seen all sorts of defendants, but that is certainly

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Speaker 1: a look for the water park. A mouthful of red lipstick,

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Speaker 1: the long fake nails, the face full of makeup, the

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Speaker 1: sunglasses back on the hair. I'm not going to refer

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Speaker 1: to her declotage. That's none of my business. But Eric,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't look like she ever intended to get in

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Speaker 1: the water.

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Speaker 8: Well, you know, in looking at her appearance, you know

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Speaker 8: that could just mean that she likes to be presentable

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Speaker 8: when she goes out. Look, she's a woman in her thirties,

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Speaker 8: she's a single mother. She was just going to get

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Speaker 8: a reprieve of being a single mother by entrusting the

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Speaker 8: care of her child to this amusement park. And then

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Speaker 8: lo and behold, here we are. I think there's another

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Speaker 8: story here.

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Speaker 1: Eric, question, do you have children?

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Speaker 9: I do not?

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Speaker 10: Uh?

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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, because what you just said is completely crazy.

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Speaker 1: You just said taking your child to a water park

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Speaker 1: is a reprieve for her? Hl n No, uh huh.

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Speaker 1: I've never been more freaked out in my life than

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Speaker 1: when I have the children at a water park. Not now,

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Speaker 1: but when they were this age. One time I dove

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Speaker 1: into the water while the twins were with the swimming instructure.

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Speaker 1: The instructor had John David Lucy's screen. Mommy, I was

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Speaker 1: fully dressed. I just got off h ol Anthropete's say

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Speaker 1: straight in choose the works. What do you mean taking

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Speaker 1: your child to a water park is a reprieve for mommy.

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Speaker 1: I've never been so jacked up in my life. I

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Speaker 1: might as well have been trying to triple homicide. Then

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Speaker 1: seeing those two in the water and it's my duty

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Speaker 1: to watch them. You think I trust some sixteen year

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Speaker 1: old boy to save my child? No, what are you

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Speaker 1: talking about?

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Speaker 11: Man?

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Speaker 8: You know, getting a break from single mother does not

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Speaker 8: mean that that you just completely ignore the child's well

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Speaker 8: being in safety.

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Speaker 12: That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is every

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Speaker 12: single mother every year. It is entitled what.

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Speaker 1: Are you saying getting a break from being a mom

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Speaker 1: at a water park?

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Speaker 8: I'm saying that everyone is entitled to a little breather

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Speaker 8: here and there, and a common activity would be to

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Speaker 8: take your child to some amusement facility like this, and

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Speaker 8: that's not unreasonable to me.

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Speaker 1: Eric, you know you're not gonna get away from saying

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Speaker 1: this was a reprieve for mommy, But I'm gonna give

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Speaker 1: you a moment to regroup and gather your thoughts. Joining me,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Tom Griffiths joining us from State College in Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 1: Drowning Expert, President, founder Aquatic Safety Research Group, co host

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Speaker 1: of The Drowning Files. Okay, that just scared the crap

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Speaker 1: out of me, The Drowning Files, Doctor Tom's Lifeguard Vision

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Speaker 1: app author of Doctor Tom's Lifeguard Chronicles, Safer Beaches, Better Beaches,

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Speaker 1: and the complete swimming pool Reference. It goes on and on,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Tom Griffith, thank you for being with us. Can

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Speaker 1: you understand what Eric Fattis just said? Because if he

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Speaker 1: says that in front of the civil jury, they're gonna

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Speaker 1: laugh him straight out of the courtroom. Mommy had a reprieve,

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Speaker 1: got a break from being a single mom by dumping

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Speaker 1: her child at a water park and then singing into

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Speaker 1: the cell phone and taking selfies. Uh huh.

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Speaker 13: Unfortunately, Eric is right in some ways that's the biggest

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Speaker 13: fear of lifeguards and water park managers. Parents come to

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Speaker 13: the facility assuming that the lifeguards are perfect and they

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Speaker 13: are going to guarantee patron safety. But lifeguards, no matter

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Speaker 13: how well trained they are, no matter how vigilant they are,

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Speaker 13: they can't watch every child all the time. They can

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Speaker 13: only watch one child at a time. So in this case,

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Speaker 13: you're using human beings to watch other human beings, and

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Speaker 13: this woman was not watching apparently based upon eyewitness accounts.

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Speaker 13: And the lifeguards are looking, but sometimes they're not seeing.

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Speaker 13: Even the best trains lifeguards, we wouldn't be here today

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Speaker 13: if the child was in a properly fitting coast Guard

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Speaker 13: a proof life jackets. We've never found a single child

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Speaker 13: drowning in a water park who is wearing a properly

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Speaker 13: fitting coast Guard approved life jacket.

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Speaker 1: No are Tom Griffins. I know you've written all these

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Speaker 1: books about swimming, but I think that's total bas to

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Speaker 1: say that people go into a water park assuming they

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Speaker 1: don't have responsibility for their own three year old child.

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Speaker 13: They parents subconsciously rely upon the lifeguards. Not all parents,

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Speaker 13: many parents are great. In fact, most parents are great.

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Speaker 13: But when you see these professionally dressed and very active

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Speaker 13: lifeguards pointing and blowing their whistles, you're assume that you

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Speaker 13: have this layer of protection that's impenetrable, and it's not.

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Speaker 13: No one's perfect. Whenever you have human beings watching other

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Speaker 13: human beings, we're gonna miss some. But most parents are good,

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Speaker 13: vigilant parents like you certainly were with your children. But

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Speaker 13: not everyone is like that. And so Eric does speak

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Speaker 13: or address some of those adults.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well we'll see if jury agrees with doctor Tom

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Speaker 1: Griffiths and Eric fattest. I will say this Fattest, and

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Speaker 1: just because it is done doesn't mean it should be done.

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Speaker 1: And I go uh with the twins to our community pool.

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Speaker 1: I see a whole string of drunk moms. Now I

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Speaker 1: don't even see any dads anywhere. I don't know where

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Speaker 1: they are, but I see a string of drunk moms

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Speaker 1: almost asleep getting a sun tan. I guess I don't

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Speaker 1: know the sun causes cancer. But that said, and all

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Speaker 1: the children are in the pool. I mean, I feel

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Speaker 1: like I have to watch them. But just because they

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Speaker 1: do that doesn't mean it's right.

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Speaker 8: It doesn't, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's criminal either.

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Speaker 12: That's the distinction.

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Speaker 8: There are varying levels of attention that a parents may

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Speaker 8: give this in this scenario, the criminal law does not

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Speaker 8: require them to be super superman and superwoman parents. And

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Speaker 8: that's just not what the legal threshold is.

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Speaker 1: We look at you. They don't have to be super

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Speaker 1: mom to keep your eyes open and off your cell phone,

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Speaker 1: to watch your child in the water over its head.

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Speaker 1: That's that's not super mom. That is a normal mom.

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Speaker 1: That's a responsible mom.

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Speaker 8: Well, I saw in that video you played earlier where

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Speaker 8: mother Jessica Weaver, moments before her child died, apparently was

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Speaker 8: filming her child going down the slide, and so to

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Speaker 8: say she was completely an attentive seems contradictory to the evidence.

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Speaker 1: Defense attorney Eric Fattus says, it's okay if mommy comes

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Speaker 1: to a water park with her three year old child

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Speaker 1: that obviously can't swim, for a reprieve, for a time out,

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Speaker 1: for a respite for mommy to chill while her son

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Speaker 1: paddles around in the water and drowns. Well, the district

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Speaker 1: attorney disagrees.

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Speaker 14: Listen, there's numerous witnesses that have come forward who have

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Speaker 14: given their account that they were there at the park,

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Speaker 14: they were watching, they saw her not paying attention to

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Speaker 14: her child, and that the child ended up drowning.

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Speaker 7: Witness one said a woman matching Weaver's description was on

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Speaker 7: her sitting outside of the pool for over an hour,

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Speaker 7: saying she was never looking up or paying attention to anything.

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Speaker 7: Witness too said she saw a boy without his mother

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Speaker 7: and that she saw Weaver laying down and singing along

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Speaker 7: to her phone for approximately seven minutes before the toddler

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Speaker 7: was pulled out of the water. Witness iree said a

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Speaker 7: woman matching Weaver's description encouraged the toddler to go into

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Speaker 7: the pool before walking away and leaving the boy by himself.

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Speaker 1: Some of that from our friends at Kate Fox fourteen

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace straight out to Elaine Autadiaz

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Speaker 1: joining US investigative reporter, Elaine, all these witnesses are coming forward,

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Speaker 1: what is your understanding of the timeline that happened that day?

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Speaker 4: So they go to the water park. It's a soft opening,

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Speaker 4: which means they're kind of getting ready their big, you know,

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Speaker 4: grand opening was going to be two weeks later for

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Speaker 4: Memorial Day weekend, and so that day they go, there's

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Speaker 4: about four hundred and sixty six people at this park,

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Speaker 4: which actually holds one thy four hundred and sixty people. Now,

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Speaker 4: the thing is she the mom goes, finds a lounge chair,

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Speaker 4: hangs out, and this is witness after witness after witness

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Speaker 4: tells investigators that she was not paying attention to her

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Speaker 4: boy while he was going through the lazy river and

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Speaker 4: the other thing.

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Speaker 5: To note a lazy river.

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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, elne out Adias, did you say lazy river?

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Speaker 1: Those currents are strong? What was this baby able to

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Speaker 1: get into a lazy river? It's not lazy.

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Speaker 4: It's lazy meaning you don't have to do any work

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Speaker 4: because it will take you.

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Speaker 5: The current takes you around and around.

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Speaker 4: And he did not have a life jacket, according to

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Speaker 4: witnesses and police.

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Speaker 5: And you know, at three years old.

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Speaker 4: There is a sign that says children under six should

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Speaker 4: have life jackets.

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Speaker 5: So you know, again something that's going to be brought

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Speaker 5: up in court. I'm sure you know.

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Speaker 1: Faddess Jackie here in the studio with me, saved two

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Speaker 1: children at the pool when she was there with her

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Speaker 1: little boy. When mommy's and dads weren't watching. I've saved

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Speaker 1: one when mommy wasn't watching. Get you know where mommy was.

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Speaker 1: She was on the side of the pool drinking alcohol

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Speaker 1: in a big red solo cut. Okay, I could smell it.

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Speaker 1: I say, not judging, but I am judging here because

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Speaker 1: in this case, the child is dead. Did you hear

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Speaker 1: what Elaine out Adiez just said. There are signs everywhere

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Speaker 1: that says under six years old, your child must wear

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Speaker 1: a life jacket.

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Speaker 8: Well, according to Jessica Weaver's attorney, the company actually prohibits

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Speaker 8: people from bringing their own life jackets. You'd have to

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Speaker 8: use the life jackets there. This was the first day

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Speaker 8: of this place was open. It's unclear how many extra

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Speaker 8: life jackets were available and what the process was for

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Speaker 8: distributing those to people who enter. Perhaps they should have

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Speaker 8: been distributed immediately upon entry.

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Speaker 12: That did not happen. And thank Kevin's you were there

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Speaker 12: to save those kids.

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Speaker 8: That this company should hire you all as lifeguards because

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Speaker 8: the lifeguards who were there failed in their role of

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Speaker 8: protecting these jugs.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I can't do that. I'm busy dealing with you.

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Speaker 1: Faddish Elaine Aidias, that's not true because according to not

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Speaker 1: only the police investigation, but what the cityvale Passe was

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Speaker 1: saying back, there were plenty of water jackets, right.

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Speaker 4: There was a third of the people in there in

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Speaker 4: the water park. So the city is claiming that there

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Speaker 4: were more than enough life jackets, and the mother is

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Speaker 4: saying that there were not.

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Speaker 2: Another witness saw Jessica Weaver sitting by the pool on

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Speaker 2: the outside concrete area which separated the Lazy River and

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Speaker 2: the jungle gym with a slide, and that Weaver was

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Speaker 2: not in the water at any point and he never

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Speaker 2: saw her with a child. What caught his attention was

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Speaker 2: the way Weaver was acting, how she was all dulled up,

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Speaker 2: sitting outside the pool on her phone and taking pictures

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Speaker 2: the entire time he saw her. The man said, when

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Speaker 2: the child was pulled out of the water, Weaver was

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Speaker 2: still in the same spot and had not moved. She

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Speaker 2: only got in the water after her son was pulled out.

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Speaker 1: I can tell you this, Eric fattasaw. You're a criminal

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Speaker 1: defense attorney, boy, does she need one? The digital evidence

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Speaker 1: in this case is going to be the steak in

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Speaker 1: mommy's heart. Of course, she's presumed innocent if and until

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Speaker 1: she is proven guilty in a court of law. But

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Speaker 1: if this witness is correct, and I have no reason

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Speaker 1: to believe all of these witnesses lined up against her, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I love arguing that to the jury. What you believe

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Speaker 1: him or her over the eight witnesses that don't even

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Speaker 1: know her? Are they all lying and she's the only

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Speaker 1: one telling the truth? Okay, you could argue that to

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Speaker 1: a jury, But how are you going to argue fattest

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Speaker 1: the digital evidence? And what I mean is when the

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Speaker 1: alarm is raised, I guarantee you there's a time and

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Speaker 1: accurate time as to when the child was first spotted

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Speaker 1: face down in the water. They're going to take her phone,

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Speaker 1: or they should take her phone and look at what

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Speaker 1: time she was taking selfies. Did you see that selfie

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Speaker 1: of her with a mouthful of red lipstick? Okay, that

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Speaker 1: selfie didn't take itself. Okay, she's doing that. That's what's

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Speaker 1: happening right there while her son is drowning. And they're

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Speaker 1: going to match up the time that she was listening

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Speaker 1: to music and singing into her iPhone and taking selfies.

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Speaker 1: They're going to match it up to the exact time

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Speaker 1: her little boy died.

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Speaker 8: That'll be an issue with which defense has to contend.

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Speaker 8: But what was everyone else doing during that time too,

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Speaker 8: that's also important, right, And it turns out some of

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Speaker 8: the lifeguards were directed to be cooking churos and attending

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Speaker 8: to the sour cream and making sure the place makes money.

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Speaker 8: This is a matter of corporate greed that really infused

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Speaker 8: this horrible set of circumstances and contributed substantially to what

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Speaker 8: happened here. So certainly her phone is is a problem.

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Speaker 8: But what these folks were doing in the concessions, these lifeguards,

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Speaker 8: that's also a problem.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that I would call her phone a problem.

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Speaker 1: I don't think her phone was the problem. I think

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Speaker 1: she's the problem. And you're saying, what about all the

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Speaker 1: other people? Okay, Eric, I hope you don't mean passers

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Speaker 1: by or other people lounging outside the pool with their

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Speaker 1: own children, taking care of their own children. I assume

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Speaker 1: you're saying that the lifeguards were the ones busy cooking truros.

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Speaker 1: Is that what you're saying?

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Speaker 12: According to Jesscuaver's attorney.

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Speaker 1: Yes, okay. Can I ask you, do you believe that

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Speaker 1: the lifeguards, according to her, that were in doing kitchen duty?

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Speaker 1: Are responsible for Weaver not watching her child? You're saying

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Speaker 1: the tot is their responsibility, not her responsibility.

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Speaker 8: What I'm saying is we're talking about, in the criminal

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Speaker 8: law context, who caused this death, and but for these

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Speaker 8: lifeguards not doing their job, they would have swooped in

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Speaker 8: and done what they were paid to do, what they

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Speaker 8: were ostensibly trained to do, although there's some question.

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Speaker 12: I swear they got adequate training whatsoever.

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Speaker 8: And so we're talking about causation here, and we're talking

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Speaker 8: about blame, and I think that we need to take

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Speaker 8: a broader look at that when we're talking about all

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Speaker 8: the actors involved and how this culminated into this orrible event.

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Speaker 1: Eric Fadas, this is a yes.

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Speaker 11: No.

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Speaker 1: Do you think I just fell off the turnip truck? No? Okay,

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Speaker 1: that was wise because you are trying to mix civil

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Speaker 1: law with criminal law. Causation and a nexus between actions

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Speaker 1: and results are for civil liability. What we're looking at

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Speaker 1: right here is mother's criminal activity, neglect and abandoning her

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Speaker 1: child in a dangerous situation. Again, it's just like throwing

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Speaker 1: you in the ring with a bunch of Rottwilers and

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Speaker 1: saying have a nice day. And then singing along with

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Speaker 1: your iPhone.

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Speaker 12: Fancy.

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Speaker 8: Throughout the course of human history, there have been horrible

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Speaker 8: accidents that happen to children while they're in their parents' care.

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Speaker 8: Not every single one of those accidents is a prosecutable murder.

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Speaker 8: Sometimes these are just horrible events that happen, and it's

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Speaker 8: more appropriate to litigate them in the civil realm. And

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Speaker 8: that's what the mother is trying to do with her

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Speaker 8: lawsuit against the city of el Pass.

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Speaker 1: Defense attorney Eric Fattis calls it mommy's time out, mommy's reprieve. Well,

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Speaker 1: the district attorney calls it a first degree felony. Joining

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Speaker 1: me now, special guest Doctor Thomas Coyne, Chief and Medical

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Speaker 1: Examiner and District two in the state of Florida, which

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Speaker 1: is packed with water parks, forensic pathologists, neuropathologist, toxicologists. You

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Speaker 1: can find him at doctor tmcoin. Doctor Coin, thank you

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Speaker 1: for being with us. You just heard Elaine Autodias report

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Speaker 1: that the child, according to witnesses, was alone for about

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Speaker 1: an hour, where other witnesses observed later identified to be

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Speaker 1: mommy taking selfies, lying in the sun, singing into her

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Speaker 1: iPhone and more anything but being with the boy an

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Speaker 1: hour Dodger coin. How long does it take for someone

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Speaker 1: to drown?

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Speaker 9: Very fast? Actually, you know, for an adult, the loss

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Speaker 9: of consciousness probably occurs that around a time when you

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Speaker 9: can no longer hold your breath, So for adults that

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Speaker 9: may take about three minutes, but for kids much faster

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Speaker 9: than that, probably in around one and a half minutes.

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Speaker 9: But that may even be faster if the child has

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Speaker 9: in a panic and starts to aspirate or breathe in water,

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Speaker 9: which will cause you know, a spasm of the larynx,

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Speaker 9: preventing further breathing. So I mean it could possibly be seconds.

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Speaker 9: But on the other hand, we're also assuming that this

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Speaker 9: child was awake when it became submerged. But playing around

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Speaker 9: in a water park like this is very common for

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Speaker 9: a child to get concussed, elbowed by another child, fall

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Speaker 9: comes down a slide, hits his head, so he maybe

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Speaker 9: knocked unconscious and then become submerged, and then of course

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Speaker 9: death probably occurs within three minutes. The heart will stop

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Speaker 9: once not enough oxygen is going to the brain as

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Speaker 9: well as at the heart.

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Speaker 1: Doctor coin. The state of Florida is dotted with water

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Speaker 1: parks and pools for children. How many swimming deaths do

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Speaker 1: you see a year approximately, Well, i'll tell you.

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Speaker 9: In terms of our practice, it's the second leading cause

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Speaker 9: of accidental death amongst children. We see a large volume

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Speaker 9: of pool related deaths. Most of the cases we see

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Speaker 9: are in home pools. You know, the classic story as

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Speaker 9: a parent becomes distracted maybe with other children, allowing let's

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Speaker 9: say a toddler to gain access to the outdoor Lenai,

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Speaker 9: and then they fall into a pool. These are course

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Speaker 9: of preventable deaths. In most cases, it's because the proper

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Speaker 9: safety measures weren't in place. But yeah, unfortunately, every year

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Speaker 9: in Florida, we see a large number of these unfortunate deaths.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Coin, we were talking about how long it takes

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Speaker 1: for a person to drown, and you mentioned that the

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Speaker 1: child could have been concussed or had fallen asleep in

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Speaker 1: the sun after playing the water for so long. Let's

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Speaker 1: pretend that he was not concussed and that he was

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Speaker 1: not over exerted from playing by himself for so long

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Speaker 1: in a typical drowning. How long does that take?

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Speaker 9: Generally it would take around I say a child this

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Speaker 9: age probably a minute to a minute and a half.

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Speaker 9: And the reason being is because once the child goes

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Speaker 9: into the water and becomes submerged, of course your initial

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Speaker 9: reflex is to hold your breath, but then panic ensues.

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Speaker 9: Your heart rate goes up and it's natural for you

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Speaker 9: to try to take a breath, and water is aspirated

435
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 9: into the mouth and that causes a reflex closing of

436
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 9: your larynx which would stop breathing. And so that really

437
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 9: the time to loss of consciousness is how much oxygen

438
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 9: reserve does this child have. This child is very young,

439
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 9: high metabolic rate, probably running around all day, so I

440
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 9: would assume that this process is much smaller. So I

441
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 9: would bet you probably in about a minute of being

442
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 9: submerged too, lost consciousness and then just under the water

443
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 9: waiting for someone to find him an extract.

444
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 1: Doctor Tom Griffiths agree or disagree?

445
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 13: Well, I agree with the doctor definitely. It can be

446
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 13: as little as ninety seconds. Traditional drownings may take for

447
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 13: adults four to six minutes. But it's he's spot on.

448
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 13: It can happen in seconds and again anywhere from ninety

449
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 13: seconds in my mind, to a longer period of four

450
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 13: to six minutes. But younger kids usually go sooner than later.

451
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: So doctor Tom Griffiths. Knowing that a child can drown

452
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 1: from A to Z start to finish in less than

453
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: two minutes, you still stand by your theory. Agreeing with

454
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 1: Fattest that it's okay for mommy to be on her

455
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: cell phone taking selfies for an hour, I did.

456
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 13: I did not agree with Fattest. I just agreed with

457
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 13: him stating that sometimes parents do this negligent behavior. I

458
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 13: don't agree that it's acceptable parents do this. I'm trying

459
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 13: to point out that we have well trained lifeguards in

460
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 13: good numbers at these water parks, and the training agencies

461
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 13: like Ellis and Associates are excellent, but they can't overcome

462
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 13: parents who neglect their children. I don't agree with Fattus.

463
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 13: I'm just agree that they're not negligent. I'm agreeing that

464
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 13: this does happen. This is the important point. Parents need

465
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 13: to watch their children. I agree with the way you

466
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 13: behave when your twins are at the water park.

467
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I'd like your objective opinion, doctor Tom Griffiths,

468
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:42,719
Speaker 1: because I'm overly protected because in my world, not only

469
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: can something conceivably go wrong, it will go wrong, because

470
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: in my world, it's gone wrong before. After the murder

471
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 1: of my fiance, so I see the world in a

472
00:27:55,280 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: different way. Okay, I think it's very likely that something

473
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: will go wrong, But for normal people, what is your advice?

474
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 1: I mean, you've written all of these books, Doctor Tom Lifeguard,

475
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: Vision app Doctor Tom's Lifeguard Chronicles, Safer Beaches, Better Beaches,

476
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: and the complete swimming pool Reference, which is pretty amazing.

477
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: You can find Tom at Aquaticsafetygroup dot com. That sounds

478
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 1: a lot like the group we found to teach the

479
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 1: kid our children to swim. We went through swimming twice

480
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: when they were about I don't know, two and a half,

481
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 1: then when they were a little older, and then I

482
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: went with them for both of them to get their

483
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: Scout Merit badge in swimming, which was no easy thing,

484
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: was very rigorous. In fact, Doctor Griffiths, I know this

485
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 1: was overdoing it. But when they went out of town

486
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: to scout camp, I jumped in the water and did

487
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: the know. I know they must have been humiliated, and

488
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: did the swim test with them that would allow them

489
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: to be around the water. You know. For the rest

490
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 1: of the week I was so worried, frankly about my

491
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: daughter being able to have the stamina to finish the

492
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 1: swim test for Scout Camp because there's really a long test.

493
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: I had to stop in the middle of dog paddle

494
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: before I could finish the thing. So reasonably speaking for

495
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: a normal person, what do you advise at a water park?

496
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: Because that's a lot different than a pool in my mind,

497
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: because water parks are crazy. There are so many children,

498
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: there's a slide, there's music, there's people yelling, there's people eating,

499
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: there's a lot of commotion, their birthday parties going on

500
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: that people are singing, happy. It's crazy. It's a lot

501
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: different from just being alone with your child in the pool.

502
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: What should parents do?

503
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 13: You're right, there's so many distractions at a water park.

504
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 13: Number one, they should put their cell phone away. We

505
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 13: like to say texting is neglecting. If you're on your phone,

506
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 13: you're not watching your kids. If you're taking video of

507
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 13: your child, you're really not watching your kid. We've had

508
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 13: we've lost children while the mother was taking photos of

509
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 13: their child. But a coast guard, a proof life jacket

510
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 13: I believe, we believe should be required at these water parks.

511
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 13: We don't think parents should be given the choice. I

512
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 13: know everyone likes free choice, but for non swimming children

513
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 13: under the age of six six and under or under

514
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 13: forty eight inches tall, they should be in a properly

515
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 13: fitting coast guard prove life jacket, because the life jacket

516
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 13: is more vigilant than any parent or any lifeguard could

517
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 13: ever be. So we believe in a note and float

518
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 13: mentality where you note your child as a non swimmer

519
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 13: and you float them in a coast guard a prove

520
00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 13: life jacket.

521
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting, I was talking about that community

522
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: to be a pool where all those moms were out

523
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: getting a son tan cancer and their children were unattended

524
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 1: to be in the pool. I believe you should have

525
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: a swimming test before you're in the pool. But that said,

526
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 1: a lot of the children are too young to be

527
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: able to swim. They should be in the kiddie pool.

528
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: But I want you to hear doctor what mommy has

529
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: to say.

530
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 10: Like watching a slow train wreck because they weren't prepared.

531
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 10: They didn't know. Really, it was panicking and chaos.

532
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 1: That's my friends at k Fox fourteen. But Elaine Autodiaz,

533
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 1: she says it was just like watching a slow train wreck.

534
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: She wasn't watching even when medics were working on her son.

535
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: He was pulled out of the water, and all the

536
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: other parents were gathering around. They didn't know who the

537
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: mom was, much less the dad. Dad wasn't there, but

538
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: they didn't even know who the mom was. So she

539
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: wasn't watching any slow train wreck, right.

540
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 4: Witness after witness say that she was lounging. She was

541
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 4: just staring at her phone. I believe one witness even

542
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 4: had she stared into her phone for seven minutes, and

543
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 4: that is just repeated over and over and for the

544
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 4: longest time, she had no idea what her child was doing.

545
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,479
Speaker 1: How would a witness know that mommy was looking at

546
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 1: her phone for seven straight minutes.

547
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 4: Because she's all dolled up at a water park. And

548
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 4: I get it, you know, especially if you're going with

549
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 4: your girlfriends, you're turning it into a thing. You're gonna

550
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 4: get dressed up in your best swimsuit. But she's a

551
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 4: mother to a three year old, and she was, you know,

552
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 4: all dulled up as they say, and you know, I

553
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 4: mean she's wearing this yellow top. I mean you cannot

554
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 4: look away. And so I think you know, someone watched

555
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 4: her for seven minutes, because that's what was reported to police.

556
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: Crimes tours with Nancy Grace.

557
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 15: Investigators looking into the Mother's Day weekend drowning death of

558
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 15: three year old Anthony Malave are stunned to find out

559
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 15: the mother of the toddler is filing a lawsuit against

560
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 15: Destination al Paso, the company that runs the city's water parks,

561
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 15: and against the City of El Paso, alleging gross negligence

562
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 15: and wrongful death. The lawsuit has been filed on behalf

563
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 15: of Jessica Weaver by a Houston law firm and claims

564
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 15: that during the park's soft opening, the city and Destination

565
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 15: al Paso we're too concerned with packing the water park

566
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 15: with people and ensuring that the live band was playing.

567
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: Well, let's hear it from the Horse's Mouth.

568
00:33:58,840 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 10: City.

569
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 16: You know had this soft opening to get their operations going,

570
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 16: but it cost my son because they weren't ready.

571
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:08,240
Speaker 10: They weren't ready.

572
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:12,360
Speaker 16: For a drowning and more children trying to save children.

573
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 16: And I understand, you know, they're like they're young lifeguards,

574
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,959
Speaker 16: but at least have someone who's done this before.

575
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 1: Karen start with me. Renowned psychologists joining us from the

576
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: Manhattan jurisdiction. Karen, when I analyzed her words, the city

577
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:35,359
Speaker 1: had a soft opening but it cost my son. They

578
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 1: weren't ready. She goes on to say that the lifeguards

579
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: looked young and inexperienced. I mean, when you go to

580
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 1: a water park with a single most important thing in

581
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: your world, which is your child, shouldn't you look at

582
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:54,919
Speaker 1: the lifeguards and you, as the parent, assess whether they

583
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 1: are capable.

584
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 6: Not only that, Nancy, of course, the lifeguards should have

585
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 6: been trained in However, this child should have been wearing

586
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,720
Speaker 6: a vest. She doesn't even mention anything about a life vest.

587
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 5: You've been at pools. I've been at pools.

588
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 6: All little babies, three year olds are wearing those water wings.

589
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 6: In addition to it, it's very interesting to me that

590
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 6: she's all dialed up at that pool, but during this

591
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 6: interview she looks much more conservative, pulled together, and it

592
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 6: doesn't seem like there's any grief. I've seen so many

593
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 6: parents talk about dead children and they're tearing up and

594
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 6: crying while they're talking.

595
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 12: About that child.

596
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 6: And here I see, honestly, the same narcissism, the narcissistic

597
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 6: neglect that you see at that pool, and somebody who

598
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 6: is very composed, ready to defend herself and deflect the blame.

599
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 1: You know, what I think you're right, Karen start. Let's

600
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 1: take a look at mommy. Here she is at the

601
00:35:55,880 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 1: pool as opposed to speaking for her lawsuit.

602
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 10: Listen watching a slow train wreck because they weren't prepared.

603
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,760
Speaker 10: They didn't know. Really, it was panicking and chaos.

604
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: From our friends at Kay Fox fourteen. And now listen

605
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: to Mommy's next claim.

606
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 2: Two months after Jessica Weaver filed her wrongful death lawsuit

607
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 2: and almost four months after Anthony's death, thirty five year

608
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 2: old Jessica Weaver is arrested in her home state of

609
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 2: Indiana on a fugitive warrant out of El Paso, Texas.

610
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 2: Waving extradition.

611
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 1: She is transported to.

612
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 2: El Paso, where she is let out of jail with

613
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 2: a one hundred thousand dollars bond. Weaver's attorneys claimed the

614
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 2: arrest of Weaver is retaliatory tactics for her lawsuit.

615
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: Okay, Elene Autodios, let me understand. She's arrested and now

616
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 1: the civil attorney, which is a lawyer not defending you

617
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 1: on a crime, but is seeking money damages for you.

618
00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:00,359
Speaker 1: The civil lawyer is claiming Mommy was arrested out of

619
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,280
Speaker 1: revenge for the lawsuit.

620
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 4: Well, let's take a look at the timeline. So Anthony,

621
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 4: three year old Anthony dies on May thirteenth, twenty twenty three.

622
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:17,760
Speaker 4: Then about six weeks later, on June thirtieth, the civil

623
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 4: lawsuit is filed. And then September fifth, twenty twenty three,

624
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 4: she's arrested. But then in Texas she's just arrested. Her

625
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 4: indictment came in December, so it's been it's been a

626
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 4: bit of a timeline. And so they are saying that

627
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 4: because she filed a million dollar lawsuit against the city

628
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 4: of El Paso, that they in turn went and arrested her.

629
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 1: Okay, she got indicted.

630
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 17: Listen, Jessica Weaver indicted in the death of her three

631
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 17: year old son, and if convicted, could face life in prison.

632
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,399
Speaker 17: The indictment states Weaver failed to provide care for her son,

633
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 17: did not give her toddler a life vest, did not

634
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 17: get in the water with her son, she did not

635
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 17: follow park rules, she did not keep her son in

636
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 17: her sight, and allowed Anthony in the water soon after eating.

637
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 1: As Mommy blames the city of El Paso and the lifeguards.

638
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,839
Speaker 1: This is what the district attorney has to say.

639
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 14: Lifeguards at our water parks are not babysitters. They are

640
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:29,919
Speaker 14: there to try to provide life saving treatment, but they're

641
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 14: not there to babysit. It is a parent's responsibility to

642
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 14: take care of your children.

643
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: Now from our friends that Kate Fox at fourteen, it's

644
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 1: not the first time that a mom has been criminally

645
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 1: charged for ignoring their child in the water.

646
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 11: Ayas allegedly asked the hotel staff to open this indoor

647
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,839
Speaker 11: pool so Caitlin could swim. The workers warned her there

648
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 11: was no lifeguard on duty, mom, says a watcher. Meanwhile,

649
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 11: Ericabias has a five month old son that she left

650
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 11: alone in the hotel room. Still five month old boy

651
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:06,879
Speaker 11: left alone in the hotel room. Seven year old girl

652
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 11: left alone at the pool while mom goes to the bar.

653
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,320
Speaker 11: Bias went to check on the little girl. They found

654
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 11: her quote floating lifeless in the pool, according to the

655
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 11: district attorney, But instead of leaping right in to get

656
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:23,280
Speaker 11: her daughter, Bias took her time, allegedly removing her shoes

657
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 11: and socks and making sure her phone won't get wet

658
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 11: before jumping in to save her daughter.

659
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: That is a senior editor with the Daily Wire Ash

660
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 1: short So in that case. Also, Eric Fattus, we see

661
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: mommy using the pool as a babysitter, while she actually

662
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:46,359
Speaker 1: asked the hotel staff to let the child in so

663
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: she can have alone time before she retreats to the bar.

664
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 12: That's correct in that case.

665
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 8: You know, I'm also aware of a case where this

666
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 8: woman essentially just let her child walk around the neighborhood

667
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 8: for an hour or so longer and was charge with

668
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 8: child abuse in that scenario.

669
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 12: So where is the line?

670
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 9: You know?

671
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 8: I understand that that we need attentive parents, but that

672
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 8: doesn't mean you need to have your eyes glued to

673
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 8: them every second of every day, especially if you've entrusted

674
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 8: their care to another.

675
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: Okay, number one, I don't trust your rendition of the

676
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: facts that a child walked for one hour and mom

677
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,759
Speaker 1: was arrested. I'd like to know how old a child is,

678
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 1: and I'd like to point out that there's a big

679
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 1: difference in a child I don't know the age because

680
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 1: you conveniently left that fact out. A child walking in

681
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 1: its own neighborhood amongst neighbors, breathing air, and being left

682
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:41,399
Speaker 1: alone in a life threatening situation water where you can die.

683
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: I mean, didn't you say Thomas Coin that a person,

684
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: much less a child can die in less than two

685
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: minutes in the water.

686
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:51,760
Speaker 9: That's correct, that fast?

687
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, doctor, So there's a huge difference in the

688
00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: two scenarios you're laying out fattest. I mean, give me

689
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 1: something real if you want to, don't bring a knife

690
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 1: to a gunfight. Okay, I don't let you think about

691
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 1: that for just a moment. Try to figure out what

692
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: that means. The phone. In Dubaya's case, mommy's on the phone.

693
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: In this case, mommy's on the phone. So to doctor

694
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 1: Tom Griffiths, whats with that?

695
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 13: Parents shouldn't be on the phone and parents, like kids,

696
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 13: are addicted to their phones. There's water parks in Western

697
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 13: Australia that have the parents shoot a QR code as

698
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 13: they enter the facility and it says welcome to our pool.

699
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 13: Now get off your phone and watch your kids. We

700
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:45,319
Speaker 13: have to be more aggressive about warning parents, adults, caregivers

701
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 13: to stay off their phones, turn them off and keep

702
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,359
Speaker 13: them away because they've got to not only be off

703
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 13: their phones, but they have to be in the water

704
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 13: with their children. The phones are a problem, Apple watches

705
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 13: are a problem. Any handheld technology around the water is

706
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 13: a real problem because we don't have enough discipline to

707
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 13: stay off them.

708
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 3: Katherine Bodom leaves her eleven month old daughter, Cecilia and

709
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 3: her two and a half year old son alone in

710
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 3: the bathtub with the water running, to go downstairs to

711
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 3: shop online for shoes. Botom's ten year old daughter says

712
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,439
Speaker 3: after nineteen minutes, the two year old boy comes down

713
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 3: the stairs saying there's a problem. Mom stops shopping long

714
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 3: enough to go upstairs and find Cecilia unconscious and turning blue.

715
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,320
Speaker 3: Botom is charged with second degree manslaughter.

716
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,280
Speaker 1: Eric fat Is joining US high profile criminal defense lawyer.

717
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: What about that mommy shopping online for shoes while the

718
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: children are in the bathtub. I guess that's mommy getting

719
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: time out and a reprieve, as you call it.

720
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 8: I think what it goes to show is that these

721
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 8: cases are factually dependent.

722
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 12: We've got to take them on a case by case basis.

723
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,280
Speaker 8: There weren't any lifeguards in that bathroom where those children

724
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 8: were in the bathtub, and so certainly there are different

725
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,359
Speaker 8: facts that we'll have bearing on each individual case. But

726
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 8: the facts here suggest that there are other folks responsible

727
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 8: besides just this single mother who lost her son.

728
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 1: Karen, start joining me psychologists, Karen, the fixation on iPhones,

729
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 1: shopping online while your children are in the water. I

730
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 1: guess the next thing Fats is going to argue is

731
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:22,760
Speaker 1: that mommies and dads were addicted to their cell phones.

732
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 6: Well, this is crazy, because people are addicted to their

733
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 6: cell phones, Nancy, but when it comes to their children,

734
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 6: there's nothing more important than your children. So we're talking

735
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 6: about really someone who's narcissistic and not equipped to be parenting.

736
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 6: Not an hour, I don't care how long you're on

737
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 6: your phone and your child is in the water without

738
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 6: you being there, and you're taking pictures.

739
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,720
Speaker 1: And let me ask you this, Karen start. I don't

740
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,399
Speaker 1: mean just being rude and having your phone out at

741
00:43:55,440 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 1: the dinner table. I mean it is being online addiction

742
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 1: like alcohol or drugs, where it completely takes over your

743
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,359
Speaker 1: life and you're unaware of what's happening around you. I mean,

744
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 1: I know it's a bad habit, but is that I

745
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 1: don't see that it can be an addiction to that extent.

746
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 6: Well, I don't know. It's sort of becoming an addiction,

747
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 6: but that's really not what we're talking about here. I

748
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 6: don't think we're talking about someone who's addicted. I think

749
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 6: we're talking about someone who's narcissistic and self involved.

750
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 1: But I'm saying, Karen, that I could see a defense

751
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,839
Speaker 1: when their first defense fails, their second defense fails. First

752
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 1: they're going to say the lifeguards were cooking uros okay.

753
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 1: Then they're going to say there were not enough lifeguards.

754
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,959
Speaker 1: Then they're going to say they didn't put the life

755
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: jacket on my child because we now know there were

756
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 1: lifejackets there that the child wasn't wearing. Then they're going

757
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 1: to be witnesses claiming she was on her phone. I

758
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: know it's far fetched. I know it sounds laughable in stark,

759
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 1: but I could see her arguing that she has a

760
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 1: phone addiction, a digital addiction, social media addiction, and that

761
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 1: it blinded her to what was happening around her, including

762
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 1: her child drowning. Do I think it makes sense? No,

763
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: of course not. But what else can she say?

764
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, but I don't know anything in the DSM right now, Nancy,

765
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:29,240
Speaker 6: which actually says the Diagnostic Manual for Psychologists and psychiatrists,

766
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:31,879
Speaker 6: but it actually says that there's such a thing as

767
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,839
Speaker 6: a phone a social media addiction. They're making that up.

768
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 6: I don't see how Okay.

769
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,879
Speaker 1: You heard it, Eric Fattis, don't tune up. Second verse

770
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 1: same as the first. And there's more. It happens every day,

771
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 1: Olivia Miller.

772
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 4: Listen, No, we're not trying to treat dios.

773
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 1: I don't know.

774
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 4: Maybe as the rest of my life, for this break

775
00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:59,720
Speaker 4: magm Son, I would never imagine him.

776
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 5: Like we are literally just having the first time I

777
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:03,360
Speaker 5: did here today.

778
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 10: Well, I believe in like heaven and stuff.

779
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 8: I don't believe that it was his time.

780
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't believe that anything knows clever right, he

781
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 1: was supposed to come up. What is she saying? Okay,

782
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 1: First of all, she says, I think that she's being

783
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: treated like an animal in that case. Fattest, as I

784
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 1: was talking about the digital trail of evidence that mom

785
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: was on the phone for twenty one straight minutes before

786
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 1: calling nine to one one her child died. Thoughts more

787
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 1: of a little break, a little time out for mom.

788
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:44,839
Speaker 12: You know, I think that there's a distinction there.

789
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 8: On the phone for twenty minutes, you're actively engaged in

790
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 8: a conversation, You're listening, you're receiving information, you're putting information

791
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,839
Speaker 8: out there as opposed to just sort of scrolling one's phone.

792
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:55,839
Speaker 8: I think anyone who has a phone would say those

793
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 8: are different activities. Now doesn't mean that one person should

794
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 8: be guilty and one person shouldn't be guilty. I can't

795
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 8: go that far, but I'm saying that there are little

796
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 8: factual nuances that matter in each of these cases.

797
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:09,799
Speaker 1: You know, Elaine Attidiaz joining US investigative reporter. I've been

798
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 1: taking a look at the defendant in the case in chief,

799
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: and like Karen Stark said, there's no indication that she

800
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 1: is upset about her so uncertainly she must be. I mean,

801
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:25,439
Speaker 1: I'm just maybe projecting onto her, but she seems pretty calm,

802
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 1: cool and collected talking about how it's everybody else's fault.

803
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 4: There is never a perfect victim. There's no rule book

804
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,240
Speaker 4: on how grieving parents react.

805
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 1: I think, oh, wait, are you saying that mom is

806
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 1: the victim?

807
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 5: I am saying, I'm just giving you facts that you

808
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 5: just said.

809
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 1: There's no perfect victim. The victim in this case is

810
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: a three year old child that was left alone in

811
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: the water at a crowded water park while mommy took

812
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 1: selfies and reapplied lipstick. That's the victim. Mommy's not the

813
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 1: victim here, but.

814
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 5: She's being charged.

815
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 18: She is a defendant, and so that's right, you know,

816
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:12,360
Speaker 18: you know, and so she is going to come at them.

817
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:15,400
Speaker 4: With everything she has because this is serious. She can

818
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:20,320
Speaker 4: go to prison for life, and so you know she's

819
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 4: going to go after.

820
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 1: I know that she's the possibility of life behind bars.

821
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 1: Am I supposed to feel bad about that? What I

822
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 1: feel bad about is a three year old? You know,

823
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 1: to you, doctor Coyne, what is it like to drown?

824
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 1: What does a victim go through when they drowned? Doctor

825
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 1: Thomas COINMT. So that's a little boy.

826
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 9: To me, I can only imagine it must be horrible fear.

827
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 9: I mean in that moment, the anxiety that you are

828
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 9: wrought with because you know, as you begin especially to

829
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 9: aspirate or inhale water and suddenly realize you can't reade.

830
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 9: I mean me, just as a person with asthma, I

831
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:55,360
Speaker 9: know I have a really bad asthma attack. My anxiety

832
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 9: picks up pretty fast if I realize I can't breathe.

833
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 9: And so in that moment that I just just must

834
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 9: have had complete fear and horror.

835
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 1: It must have been horrible, you know, doctor Coyne, I

836
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 1: recalled distinctly two incidents of near drowning. One when I

837
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 1: was about three and my mom was talking to another

838
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 1: lady about four feet away from me the moment I

839
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 1: went underwater. She jumped in in her clothes and saved me. Okay,

840
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 1: I was just sitting on the steps of a pool

841
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,479
Speaker 1: and was playing a game and jumped off the step

842
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 1: and went immediately underwater and didn't know how to swim

843
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 1: yet she saved me. The second time, I was about

844
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 1: thirteen at a big lake and went under and that feeling.

845
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 1: I immediately gulped in a lot of water. It was

846
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 1: way over my head with a lake, you know, the

847
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:50,880
Speaker 1: surface at the bottom is uneven and I was walking

848
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 1: out and immediately went under. And I remember the feeling

849
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:59,240
Speaker 1: you're describing, and it was scary. It was horrific. I remember,

850
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:01,279
Speaker 1: like it happened yesterday, Doctor Coin.

851
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:02,759
Speaker 9: Yeah, I had the same thing. Happened when I was

852
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 9: two on the Jersey Shore. I had a wave that

853
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 9: took me under. Thankfully my father was watching me. It

854
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:09,439
Speaker 9: came ran over and pulled me right out right away.

855
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,280
Speaker 9: But I can still remember that if I closed my eyes,

856
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 9: just the fear of the moment, I think it stays

857
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:15,839
Speaker 9: with you for life.

858
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:20,760
Speaker 1: We wait as just a sun falls. Goodbye friend,