1 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff. 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:09,639 Speaker 1: I never told your prospection of I Hiart Radio's house 3 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: staff works. This week's classic episode is inspired to you 4 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: by the Everywhere podcast, which is a new podcast that 5 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: UM is done my good friend of mine, Daniel. Um. 6 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: He's one of those people that when you meet your 7 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: somehow just friends, you've hardly said anythinking to each other, 8 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: but you're just friends connection. And it could be because 9 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: he really loves to travel. I really love to travel. 10 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: Do you love to travel? I do love to travel. 11 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: I love it, um Bridget and I we did an 12 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: episode on women traveling alone a while ago. Um. It 13 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: can just be it's not for everyone, I will say that, 14 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: but it can be really empowering and just really a 15 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: space for personal growth. Right. I love doing that actually right. 16 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: I missed my college graduation because I got a good 17 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: deal to go to Europe for three weeks and I 18 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,479 Speaker 1: did it by myself. Yeah, I loved it. I missed 19 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: those moments I do too. Um. For a while, my 20 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: friends had a cardboard cut out of my head and 21 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: it was the spirit of Annie because I would always 22 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 1: travel like whenever I could, during like spring breaks or whatever. 23 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:21,839 Speaker 1: It was I was just gone. So there's a bunch 24 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: of great pictures of me, like my group of friends 25 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: in this cardboard. I really really love it. Um. But 26 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: Everywhere was cool because it's things that you won't find 27 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: in guide books. UM. It's kind of a way if 28 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: you're if you're looking to travel on any budget to anywhere, 29 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: how can you do that? And he has these commandments 30 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: of travel and getting the best out of it and 31 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: being respectful when we travel. Um. So I I really 32 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: did it, UM, and I think some of the listeners 33 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: will really enjoy it. And UM for this classic episode 34 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: Women's Wander list Um, it fits right in to kind 35 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: of the spirit of Everywhere. So we hope you enjoyed. 36 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mob Never Told You from House Supports 37 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen 38 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,519 Speaker 1: and I'm Caroline. And over the past few weeks on 39 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 1: the podcast, we have been delving into the world of 40 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: women and exploration and women adventurers who are going all 41 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: around the world doing all sorts of incredible things. And 42 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 1: to close out this series, partially because it's summer travel 43 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 1: season and partially because it just seems like the right 44 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: and natural thing to talk about is the issue of 45 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: women traveling alone, women's wander lust, what it is like, 46 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: whether you are a stem explorer or someone who wants 47 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,040 Speaker 1: to climb the highest mountain in the world or not. Not. 48 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:05,239 Speaker 1: Just women leaving their homes to see something they have 49 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: never seen and doing that alone. It's it's a super 50 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 1: big deal to a lot of people for women to 51 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 1: be traveling by themselves, whether we're talking about women today, 52 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: women in a golden age of expiration so like the 53 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: nineteenth century, or whether we're talking about women in fourth 54 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: in the fourth century. Yeah, Susan Jacobi at The New 55 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: York Times writes about how women traveling alone has always 56 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: been looked at a little suspiciously because there immediately all 57 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: of these questions raised that essentially repeat over and over again, Well, 58 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: why would a woman want to travel alone? What is 59 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: wrong with her? And she mentions how in the fourth century, 60 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: Christian pilgrims were the first quote unquote respectable women who 61 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: traveled alone, and really, for a long time, religious pilgrimages 62 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 1: and family emerge seas were the only situations when it 63 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: was socially appropriate for a woman to set off on 64 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: her own without any kind of chaperone or male companion. Yeah, 65 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: God forbid a woman travels without some sort of male protection, 66 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: because everybody's going to assume, whether we're talking about the 67 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: fourth century or whether we're talking about today, people are 68 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 1: going to make some crazy assumptions as far as like 69 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 1: her sexuality goes. For instance, people are going to think 70 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 1: like she's a loose woman, that uterus is floating about, 71 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: making her crazy, or she's just terribly lonely. She's either 72 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 1: she's either hyper sexual and looking for anonymous sex, or 73 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: she is just desperate and lost in the world, or 74 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: maybe both. Yeah and and Jacobe writes about these this 75 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: this trope of the solo woman traveler and talks about 76 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 1: how even today we have these lingering, internalized stereotypes about 77 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:00,840 Speaker 1: what it means for a woman to travel unencumbered and 78 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: unaided by a man or family entourage. And this is 79 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:08,119 Speaker 1: something that Sarah Hepola over at Salon echoed. She talks 80 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: about how a woman traveling alone threatens tradition and propriety, 81 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: and because women often doubt themselves, we tend to stay 82 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: towards safe harbors and soft landings, hiding behind the needs 83 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: and wants of others and It was really in the 84 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 1: mid nineteenth century, which is considered by some the Golden 85 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: Age of female travel, that more and more women, particularly 86 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: well healed women, started to brave away from those safe 87 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: harbors and soft landings. And it was partially due to 88 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: advancements in transportation technology. You have steamships and railroads that 89 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: made travel more feasible. Yeah, and this allows women to 90 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: go forth to explore, to learn to see the unseen 91 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: and therefore gain some autonomy, break some of those gender norms, 92 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: that status quo. And this is particularly true though, and 93 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 1: we would be remissed to skip over this. It's particularly 94 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: true for white middle class women. There's a lot of 95 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 1: privilege at play when you talk about exploration, particularly during 96 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 1: this area of this era, because when you look at men, 97 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: for instance, white upper class men traveling abroad, seeing the Empire, 98 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: their heroes, their heroes, and the way they talk about 99 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: the quote unquote natives is very patronizing. It's very like 100 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: a racist, very racist as well. But you know what 101 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: a lot of women during that time, especially the upper 102 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: class white women who were traveling the Empire as well. 103 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: I mean, they weren't that far off either, and they 104 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: by leaving the gender norms of the modern West. They 105 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: were able to go into these you know, so called 106 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: uncivilized societies and feel as though they were at the 107 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 1: top of some power hierarchy. Yeah, it was interesting that 108 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: if you read a lot of the travel women's travel 109 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 1: writings at the time, a it is usually coming from 110 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: women who could afford to travel, and so you have 111 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: that element of privilege going on there, and then you 112 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: have the element of white privilege going on, but you 113 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: also have the subtext of them starting to question their 114 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: female status, their gender role in the West because in 115 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: these other places, due to these elements of privilege, they 116 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: are higher on the hierarchy than they are at home. 117 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: And this is something that Aziza Ahmed, writing for the 118 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: post Colonial Studies Department at Emory, talks about saying that 119 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: the East was seen and that's capital e east. The 120 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: East was seen as a place for women to regain 121 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: power through race, which was lost at home because of gender. 122 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: And while that is that's not that's not necessarily something 123 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: to celebrate because it's obviously like the Indigenous people who 124 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: are being thrown under the bus, uh for the sake 125 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: of a woman finding herself a little bit more. But 126 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: but it's it's an interesting snapshot of the time of 127 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: how sort of the socio cultural element of travel in 128 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: the mid nineteenth century when these women were going out 129 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: in corsets and skirts and heavy clothes and hats and 130 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:33,679 Speaker 1: going into these what they would call uncivilized foreign lens. Well, 131 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: you know, Kristen, you mentioned so as they go to 132 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: other lands and travel and see other things, and they 133 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: they find themselves on top of this perceived hierarchy, and 134 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: how that translated into the perception of how they were 135 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: treated at home. I mean, if we talk about explorers 136 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: the way we have defined it so far in this 137 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 1: series explores being there's people who have to go out 138 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: and they have to find answers. I mean, it's not 139 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: as if women who did and wanted to research, it's 140 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: not like they were welcomed into explorers groups. So a 141 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,319 Speaker 1: lot of the time, if you were a woman who 142 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: had scientific or mathematical or anything leaning you, you kind 143 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,079 Speaker 1: of did have to pick up and leave and go 144 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: elsewhere to perform research. Yeah, this was a lot of 145 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:22,079 Speaker 1: kind of anthropological research happening under the guise of just 146 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: being a wealthy woman traveling. And there were a lot 147 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: of popular women travel writers at this time, which which 148 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: is a little surprising that they were so well received, 149 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: but I guess it was because they were bringing back 150 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: news of an unknown land. And so you have people 151 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:45,199 Speaker 1: like Isabella Bird, Lady, Mary Wortley Montague, and Mary Kingsley 152 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: who wrote a lot and made their names in their 153 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:55,319 Speaker 1: travel writing, which again tended toward objectifying indigenous people and 154 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: their quote unquote savage ways. And talking about these women 155 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: writing um a lot of the time and I'm not 156 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: saying that this applies specifically to the women Christian decided, 157 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 1: but a lot of the times these women travel writers 158 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 1: would sort of maybe embellish a little, maybe make the 159 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: native people's seem more savage or uh, sort of outside 160 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 1: the norm than they really were. And so these travel 161 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: logs attracted a lot of attention and uh Rachel Friedman 162 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: over at Bitch cites Lady Helen Defriends eighteen sixty three 163 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 1: satiric Listings from Low Latitudes, which basically makes fun of 164 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: this trend of women travel writers and their travel logs. 165 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: She writes about a trip made by the fictional Impulsia Gushington, 166 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: who when I first was skimming over this article, I 167 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: was like, there was a woman named Impulse. Okay, I 168 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: get it. I did the same thing. It's like that's 169 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:55,479 Speaker 1: the worst name, but I get it. Um, But Impulse 170 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:59,319 Speaker 1: thea sort of stood in as a figure mocking the 171 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: era's upper class female travelers in their wide eyed, sort 172 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: of naive and shocked observations about the people that they 173 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: encountered in foreign lands. But it also served to sort 174 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: of I don't know, I think it kind of served 175 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: as a backlash to women having this freedom, like how 176 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: weird are you You're writing all of this like trite 177 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 1: stuff about traveling and how you're so special and how 178 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: they're so shocking. And but the thing is dufferin A 179 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: is a woman writing the satire, and b was inspired 180 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:36,079 Speaker 1: to write about Impulsia Gushington, which I don't know. I 181 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: find out they're very funny. Dufferin, You're quite a whit. 182 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: But it was she was inspired to write this after 183 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: taking a trip down the Nile, which was a very 184 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 1: passionateing to do at the time with her son, so 185 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: she herself a travel writer. To me, it read as 186 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 1: what today would be a satire on Eat, Pray, Love, 187 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: you know, essentially saying, oh, here we have another white 188 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: woman going into a foreign land to find herself. If 189 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: only we could talk to dufferin, Yeah, if we could 190 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: get different on the podcast, that could clear some things 191 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: up for us. Right, But there is another book that 192 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: we found from eight sixty five called Women Adventurers, written 193 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,959 Speaker 1: by Mini Muriel Downey, in which she profiles I think 194 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: it's five women travelers of the day, and she writes 195 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: those in our book followed husbands and lovers for love. 196 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: So they say how much more might be made of 197 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: their stories if only they themselves were not the narrators. Basically, 198 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: she was saying, it's just too bad that these women 199 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: were not alone traveling, because if women are on alone traveling, 200 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: then you know they realized so much more instead of 201 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: just following men. And that's still the refrain now, Yeah, 202 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: I mean absolutely every you know, when you read uh 203 00:12:56,200 --> 00:13:00,439 Speaker 1: travel essays by young women on various website at various 204 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: travel magazines, etcetera, etcetera, you know a lot of them 205 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: do talk about these personal journeys of discovery, discovery of themselves, 206 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: discovery of new places, discovery perhaps of a future husband 207 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: or temporary lover. Right, But but how rich the experience 208 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: was for them to go on their own. Yeah. And 209 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:24,959 Speaker 1: for that reason, I would say that in the early 210 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: twenty first century where we are today, that we might 211 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:34,599 Speaker 1: be in this golden er age of female travel and 212 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: travel writing because you have more women than ever before 213 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: traveling alone. Uh and freedmen. For instance, reported in New 214 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: York Magazine a two thousand thirteen poll of travel agents 215 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,559 Speaker 1: which found that it's much more common for women to 216 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: travel alone than men, and seventy of the agents they 217 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: pulled noted that more female travelers embark on solo trips 218 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,839 Speaker 1: in their male counterparts. And the average age of a 219 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: solo traveler is not the young woman fresh out of college, 220 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: but a forty seven year old female. Yeah, and usually, uh, 221 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: you know, something has happened in her life that's pushed 222 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:17,439 Speaker 1: her out on this journey, whether it's just divorced or 223 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: maybe the death of a loved one or parent. And 224 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I think those reasons, even if those are 225 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: things specific to a certain age group, I mean, I 226 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: think that those major life changes are what push a 227 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: lot of people out into the world on a journey 228 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: of discovery. And that reminds me of reading that Bitch 229 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: article by Rachel Friedman in which she talks to a 230 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: travel expert who started leading workshops for women travelers, and 231 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: her main demographic was women in their forties and fifties who, Yeah, 232 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: I had like hit some kind of dramatic point in 233 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 1: their life and just felt the need to flee. And 234 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 1: I've felt that before, just like I need to get 235 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: on a plane and be in a place that looks 236 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: nothing like my home as soon as humanly possible. And 237 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: I don't want anyone I know to come with me. Yeah, no, 238 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: I um I after going through a breakup, well it 239 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: was actually like a super like TRIPLI doubly traumatic thing 240 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: of heartbreak for so many Anyway, I ended up hopping 241 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: in the car and just driving to Charleston, South Carolina 242 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: by myself and just wandering around and eating all the 243 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: food and seeing all the sites because I was like, 244 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: I just don't want to I just don't want to 245 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: talk to anybody. I don't want to be at home, 246 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: you know, I want to go out and think about 247 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: things for a little while. Well, and people might say, 248 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: but Caroline, weren't you so lonely eating all of the 249 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: food by yourself? No? No, Yeah, I did a similar 250 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: thing after a friend of mine died in a very 251 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: tragic car accident, and my knee jerk reaction was to 252 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: go to l A. I'd never been there before, and 253 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: I went for my birthday. I also prefer to spend 254 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: my birthdays in places I have never been before because 255 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: it just makes planning so much easier. And like you, 256 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: I just wanted to be alone. I didn't want to 257 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: be around anyone. I wanted to observe and sort of 258 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: just be alone with my thoughts. And it felt and 259 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: it was lonely at times when you're surrounded by a 260 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: lot of people, especially I think if you're in morbitisty area. 261 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: But it was a good kind of loneliness. Yeah, I 262 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 1: think that's that's the thing. I you know, I um, 263 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: I took a trip. I did study abroad the semester 264 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: after I graduated college, which is weird, but that summer 265 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: I went to England and then after everybody else went 266 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: back to school, I stayed over there by myself for 267 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks, just traveling and seeing the sites. 268 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: And yeah, you get these like pangs, especially around meal time, 269 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: like I wish somebody was sitting across the table for me. 270 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: But it's it's so nice. Also, it's it's it's a 271 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: good feeling. It's like pressing on a sore muscle, almost 272 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:06,400 Speaker 1: that you're like, I'm doing something for myself. I'm focusing inward. 273 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: I don't know not to sound to Eat Pray Love 274 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: about it. But speaking though of Eat Pray Love, one 275 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: of the reasons why we're seeing more women travel memoirs 276 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 1: than ever before it's become this hugely popular genre is 277 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 1: largely due to two thousand sevens Eat Pray Love by 278 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Gilbert. And I read Eat Pray Love. It might 279 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 1: have been because I was also going through a breakup, 280 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: so reading the book was perfectly timed. But I enjoyed it. 281 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I know it gets a lot of flak, 282 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: but I loved it and I cried. Yeah, I think. 283 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 1: I think it gets a lot of flak from people 284 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,360 Speaker 1: who don't want who want to distance themselves from anything 285 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 1: that even looks or smells like chick lit. But Elizabeth 286 00:17:54,400 --> 00:18:00,160 Speaker 1: Gilbert is a very respectable writer, and while there are 287 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: more high minded books out there, I mean, I enjoyed it. 288 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 1: I've never seen the movie. I heard it was, Yeah, 289 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 1: I I've seen parts of it on TV, and it's 290 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: it's not great. But yeah, I think, um, I don't know. 291 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: I think people need to not to get off on 292 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: a tangent. I think people need to lighten up about 293 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,439 Speaker 1: the book. It's her journey, it's her story. You can 294 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 1: tell yours two if you want. Yeah, I will say 295 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: that I enjoyed Sheryl Strad's Wild more than Eat, Pray Love. 296 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: They're often held up as like the two women travel memoirs, 297 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: but there's such They're also so different and written from 298 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: like very different times and places. And Sheryl straight goes 299 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,919 Speaker 1: out and hikes the Pacific Crest Trail, which is far 300 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: different than eating lots of pasta in Italy. Yeah, And 301 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 1: I mean people forget that women don't all have one voice, 302 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: although a lot of times, if you are a woman 303 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: travel writer, you're expected to have the voice of other 304 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,880 Speaker 1: women travel writers. And so often women who are write 305 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:02,719 Speaker 1: the books or these essays are expected to write about 306 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: their transformation, the personal journey, that the emotion and not 307 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,159 Speaker 1: that that's bad, not that they shouldn't, but it is 308 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: interesting to see the contrast between what women do right 309 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: and are expected to write versus what men are expected 310 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 1: to write and what they end up publishing. Yeah, I 311 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: feel like women's travel memoirs are also expected to spring 312 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 1: from a place of extreme heartache and despair, whereas we 313 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,400 Speaker 1: can jump right in with a man on a road 314 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: in the middle of his travels. At least that's what 315 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: Lavinia Spaulding, who was the editor of the two thousand 316 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: eleven Best Women's Travel Writing Anthology, reported. She said, a 317 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: lot of travel writing by men is focused on what 318 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:46,360 Speaker 1: I saw, did eight, where I went, what goal I accomplished, 319 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: whereas with women, it's who I met, what I learned, 320 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 1: how I felt, how I changed. And that might be 321 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 1: due to men and women maybe traveling different, maybe traveling 322 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: for different reasons. Um, but it also might be due 323 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:06,719 Speaker 1: to editors and publishers sort of pushing women travel writers 324 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 1: in that type of way. Well, this this got me 325 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,400 Speaker 1: thinking about the travel shows, what types of travel shows 326 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,400 Speaker 1: I enjoy watching, and like, I will watch for thirty 327 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: hours at a time Anthony Bourdaine, But um, I cannot 328 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 1: stomach Samantha Brown. And I started thinking about I'm like, 329 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: oh no, am I a woman hater and myself hater? 330 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: What's going on? Oh no? And then I thought no, no, no, 331 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 1: because I would watch a women a women's travel show too, 332 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: if it were led by a woman who was also 333 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: like Anthony Bourdine, like maybe led by too feminist minded 334 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:45,159 Speaker 1: young podcasters, but like if you put Janine Garoffalo on 335 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: an airplane and center overseas, I would totally watch that. 336 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: I'm not as interested in what Samantha Brown is selling, 337 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: you know, but does she is it? Because she has 338 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 1: more of a like a gender stereotypical approach. Is that 339 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 1: what it is? I don't know what it is. Maybe 340 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 1: she's more touristy and more like, hey, guys, like pack 341 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,199 Speaker 1: your Fannie pack or whatever, whereas Anthony Bourdain's very much 342 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,880 Speaker 1: like I'm going to go into this back alley squid 343 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:12,719 Speaker 1: shop and I'm going to eat a bunch of squid 344 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 1: and then I'm going to go to a bar with 345 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: the squid shop owner. You know. It's it's very much 346 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: more of like a more of it off the beaten 347 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: path type thing. Well, and that's such a good distinction 348 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 1: to bring up between the traveler and the tourist, because 349 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: the tourist is what you never want to be, but 350 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: the traveler is the person that we you know that 351 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 1: that you want to sit next to them at a 352 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: dinner party and hear all of their tales. Whereas a tourist, 353 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: you're going to be like, oh no, well so I 354 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: I think, because we still even today, there is the 355 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 1: danger of falling into that trap of still looking at 356 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: people in the country you visit as like an exotic other, 357 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 1: you know, And so there is that danger of falling 358 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: into that trap, and I I feel like it. Maybe 359 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: I'm wrong, but a tourist is more likely to fall 360 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 1: into that trave versus someone who is a traveler who 361 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: is more willing to more willing and desirous of jumping 362 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: into that culture learning all that they can, not looking 363 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: at it from like a patriarchal You're this exotic other 364 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 1: I have to to encapsulate somehow and put into a box. 365 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: But I want to join you, yeah, or I need 366 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: to come and change your problematic gender norms that that 367 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: that I feel are like hyper repressive. Instead, a traveler 368 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: would go in and say, oh no, actually, I am 369 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: going to go hang out with the women and see 370 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: how they live their lives and not try to insert 371 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: myself into into their way of life, but rather absorb 372 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 1: it and learn about it. But getting back though to 373 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,880 Speaker 1: these princes and at least how travel writing by men 374 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 1: and women is marketed. Straight herself has talked about how 375 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: male travel stories are often seen as universal, perhaps because 376 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 1: of the thing of how they tend to focus on 377 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 1: you know what I did, saw eight, whereas women's and 378 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: this goes for writing by women in general often is 379 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 1: pigeonholed as being very particular and only for women. Um, 380 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: and that's one reason why when she was writing Wild, 381 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:39,479 Speaker 1: she pushed for a gender neutral cover. So if you, uh, 382 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: you know, if you have a copy of Wild, you'll 383 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: see that there's a boot on the front. She was like, 384 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: I wanted I didn't want men on the subway to 385 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: be embarrassed having my book out reading it. Yeah, a 386 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: lot of women authors out there, travel writers talk about 387 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: how everybody wants everybody goes to pink first. They're like, 388 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: let's make a pink cover. One author talks about how 389 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: well I finally succeeded by getting a yellow cover. Another writer, 390 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: a woman of color, talks about how her travel book 391 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: was was not even given the broad audience of women. 392 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: Hers was pigeonholed as African American studies. And she's like, 393 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 1: I'm not some anthropological like study you're you know, I'm 394 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: a woman travel writer, Like, what are you talking about? 395 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: And I'm pretty sure The title of her book is 396 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,920 Speaker 1: The Black Girl's Guide to Traveling, which clearly is a 397 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 1: travel book, not an African American studies book, but that 398 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: also touches on our conversations about, you know, women in 399 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 1: literature and marketing and all of that. But um, it 400 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 1: also leads us to these two major themes that come 401 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:45,920 Speaker 1: up with women's solo traveling, where it has to be 402 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: both transformational and also terrifying. And so that first theme 403 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: of transformation is one that we've heard a lot about. 404 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: We've already talked a lot about it. That often a 405 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: woman's journey that ends up the whether it's published or 406 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: whether it's just you know, a woman who's not a 407 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: writer going off and traveling. It's often sparked by some 408 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: emotional moment in her life or something something like heartache 409 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 1: or trauma that sets her off on this journey of 410 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 1: self discovery. And a lot of times, I feel like 411 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,920 Speaker 1: any women's travel essay that you read, the resounding message 412 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 1: is to do it because it will transform you, and 413 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: especially if you do it alone. You have Sarah Heppola 414 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,239 Speaker 1: at Salon, who we sited earlier, who talks about how 415 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,679 Speaker 1: she essentially just got in her car and drove around 416 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,120 Speaker 1: the United States for months alone. And you have Jill 417 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: Philipovic at The Guardian writing about how I think it 418 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: was post breakup she went to Europe and Freedman, who 419 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,199 Speaker 1: we site all the time on the podcast. She's essentially 420 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: the patron saint of Semanthy at this point. But she 421 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: similarly talks about how when she was in her early 422 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,199 Speaker 1: twenties she went traveling alone and she was nervous at 423 00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,879 Speaker 1: first but so quickly relieved to be by herself. And 424 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: so there's that recurring theme over and over and over 425 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: again of travel fourth young woman for it will be 426 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 1: transformative and also feminist. Absolutely. Even Toby Israel at Salon 427 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 1: talks about female hitchhiking about how you, as a woman, 428 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 1: you know, are much more likely to be hit by 429 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 1: a car than you are to be killed and raped 430 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: while hitchhiking, and so she talks about how that was 431 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: a major she she overcame a major hurdle of fear 432 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: and trepidation when she decided to accept that for that 433 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 1: first hitchhiking offer, and how even though there were some 434 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 1: bumps along the way that she was so glad she 435 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: did it. Yeah, and she ended up traveling more than 436 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: thirty seven thousand miles hitchhiking through Croatia, Slovenia, Austria, and Germany, 437 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 1: which I cannot fathom. I don't know if my bravery 438 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 1: extends to the point of hitchhiking, because whether you're a 439 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 1: male or female, you know, how many times have we 440 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: been told since we were we children and to never 441 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: accept her hide from strangers. Yeah, yeah, I I don't know, 442 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,640 Speaker 1: I don't know. She she does point out, like we've 443 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 1: already said, she does point out that she had this 444 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: double pronged privilege of being female, so she was not 445 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 1: threatening to people who might stop and pick her up. Also, 446 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: people like couples and grandparents would stop because they felt 447 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 1: protective of this young white woman out on the side 448 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 1: of the road. But also that whole white thing where 449 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:32,440 Speaker 1: she enjoys the privilege of being a white female, and 450 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,719 Speaker 1: so you know, other drivers don't, you know, feel threatened 451 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: or whatever. So she she points that out that there 452 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: it's not the same for everyone, right, um, But what 453 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 1: does seem to be the same for a lot of 454 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: solo female travelers, at least according to a two thousand 455 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,120 Speaker 1: to study out of the University of Florida, is that, yes, indeed, 456 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: setting out on your own is empowering. These researchers talked 457 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: to a number of women who had traveled on their own, 458 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: and they found that the women described the experiences is liberating, 459 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:10,160 Speaker 1: not terrifying. Even though we're often warned over and over 460 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 1: again that oh, if you are a woman traveling alone, 461 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 1: you had better watch out. You better put on a ring, 462 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: better get a ripe whistle, get too, and keep it 463 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 1: in your mouth. All yeah, get some bare repellent, because 464 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: it is a grizzly world out there. I mean, I 465 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 1: think it's I think it's funny that they even studied this. Well, yeah, 466 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,359 Speaker 1: I mean, and they found too that after traveling alone, 467 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: these women still prefer traveling alone because it gave them 468 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: more opportunities to make new friends. Because when I went, 469 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 1: for instance, I went on study abroad in college with 470 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: one of my best friends still one of my best friends, 471 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: and we had so much fun together and we made 472 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: lots of memories. But there were also times that I 473 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: know and like recognized as it was happening that we 474 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: were kind of so caught up in like our own 475 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: friendship with like doing things together, that we weren't making 476 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 1: really friends outside of ourselves, which could have been cool there. 477 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: I mean, we ended up doing that more once we 478 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 1: had been there for a little bit. Um, but I 479 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: think there there can be some missed opportunities. Yeah, Like 480 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,840 Speaker 1: I UM, when I was by myself over in England 481 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: and Ireland, I lost my lugg. I didn't lose the luggage. 482 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: The airline lost the luggage. And so I get to 483 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 1: Ireland after being awake for thirty six hours, and I'm 484 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: feeling a little down in the dumps because I don't 485 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 1: have any underwear, you know, like I have nothing, and 486 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: I'm by myself and it's raining because it's Ireland, and 487 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 1: I'm just like, oh God. So anyway, I'm walking up 488 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 1: to Trinity College in Dublin, and who should I see 489 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 1: but this girl that I did study abroad with. And 490 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, you stayed too, Hello. Can we 491 00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: be best friends for the next couple of hours? And 492 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 1: so she and I um went all over the city. 493 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 1: We saw a bunch of things together, we ate together, 494 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: We talked to a bunch of like the local restaurant owners, 495 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: and gotten to a bunch of great conversations. We eventually 496 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: win our separate ways, but it was great to have 497 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 1: that experience of kind of enjoying a foreign country and 498 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: a new city with someone, so you could rely on 499 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: that that extra presence, but then taking your own way 500 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: and then diving deeper into all of these things you 501 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: want to learn more about. Yeah, I've never traveled abroad 502 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: by myself. I've gone places in the US, but usually 503 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: I have some point of contact, whether I'm staying with 504 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: a friend or you know, somebody to call, someone to 505 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: meet up with, Because there comes that point of the 506 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 1: free time, the after the sun sets, and is it 507 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: safe to go out? Where do you go and eat alone? 508 00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: It can be, I mean, it can be kind of 509 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 1: nerve racking. Yeah, And I mean that leads us into 510 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: the next major theme of anyone discussing women traveling alone, 511 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: which is danger. Danger. You've got to wear all those 512 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: rate whistles. Don't go out after dark, certainly, don't go 513 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 1: to clubs like watch your Back, don't stay on the 514 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: first floor of a hotel. And while there is merit 515 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 1: to a lot of the travel advice, I mean, certainly, 516 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 1: don't be stupid but you don't want to do stupid 517 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: things at home either. Yeah. I mean, when you look 518 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: at the statistics of how dangerous travel for women actually 519 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 1: is compared to how much we hear about how what 520 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 1: a terrible idea. Essentially it is because we're just like 521 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: putting ourselves at risk for the worst possible things to 522 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: happen to us. Apparently there's such a vast gulf between 523 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: the reality of traveling alone and what we are warned 524 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: about traveling alone. And that's one reason in that women 525 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: are likelier to plan, like to overplan, excuse me, their itinerary, 526 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 1: because we're so nervous about that free time because everyone's 527 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: been telling us that we're going to be murdered and 528 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: or raped. Well, I don't know, I mean, I think, 529 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 1: I mean, not to totally go off on a tangent, 530 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: but I think that having that free time is so awesome, 531 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 1: That unplanned free time is so awesome, just as long 532 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: as you are smart about it and you're paying attention 533 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 1: to your surroundings. Well, and I have a feeling too 534 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: that you know, yes, be smart about it, um, but 535 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: I also feel like they're there's this undercurrent of victim 536 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 1: blaming in regard to the worst case scenario of being 537 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 1: murdered and or raped, which has happened, and I'm not 538 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 1: trying to make light of that, um but whenever the 539 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: worst case scenario happens, the blame is immediately focused on 540 00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: the solo female traveler of well, why was she out 541 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 1: there alone to begin with? Right, an Alice Driver at 542 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: the Feminist Wire says that basically, by repeating these stories 543 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 1: over and over again and telling women not to go 544 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: out by themselves, we are limiting their movement. And I 545 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: would say that by then limiting women's movement, making them 546 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 1: too afraid to go out in the dark by themselves. Ever, 547 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 1: we're also not allowing that to become normalized. We're not 548 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 1: allowing the image of a woman at a cafe at night, 549 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,239 Speaker 1: or at a club or wherever she is at night 550 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 1: by herself. We're not allowing that to become normalized. Well. 551 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: And then there's also this deeper level too, as The 552 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: New York Times talked about of how if and when 553 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 1: a white female traveler, in particular, if something happens to her, 554 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:52,240 Speaker 1: it's often amplified by the media, which makes individual incidents 555 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: seem like part of a larger pattern. Um and Christina Finch, 556 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: who's the director of Amnesty Internationals Women Human Rights Program, 557 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 1: told The New York Times on average, attacks against white 558 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: women worldwide received more coverage than attacks against women of color. 559 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,400 Speaker 1: And then on top of that, you also have um 560 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,360 Speaker 1: the response to violence against Western tourists being met with 561 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 1: a much faster response than violenced against local women, right. 562 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: And then that leads us, of course to the story 563 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: of Sarai Sierra, who in was murdered while traveling alone 564 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 1: in Turkey. And so there's a lot of handwringing around this, 565 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: I mean, admittedly horrific story about like why was she 566 00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,800 Speaker 1: even alone in the first place, what was she possibly thinking? 567 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 1: When in reality, like and it got a very fast 568 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: and strong police response in Turkey. But this was a guy. 569 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 1: This was like a crazy homeless man who tried to 570 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,239 Speaker 1: kiss her and she fought back, and then she threw 571 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: a rock at him, and he bashed her head in 572 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,800 Speaker 1: with a rock basically, And so I mean, this is 573 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 1: something that could have happened to any woman, but it 574 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:03,320 Speaker 1: happened to take play as violence against an American woman 575 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 1: traveling by herself, and people seemed so outraged, particularly at 576 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,839 Speaker 1: her for traveling because she not only was a woman 577 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 1: traveling alone, but she was also married, and people, some 578 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 1: people were like, well, why wasn't your husband with you? 579 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 1: Why weren't you? Are you one of those going back 580 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,240 Speaker 1: to that early trope, that mistrust of the woman traveling alone. 581 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 1: She must have just been out trying to cheat on 582 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 1: her husband. Why was she even talking to a man 583 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:33,799 Speaker 1: in the first place. It's so victim blaming, but more 584 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:38,360 Speaker 1: level headed responses to that admittedly horrific incident. It's the 585 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,399 Speaker 1: fact that when you look at things like domestic violence rates, 586 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: murder rates, and sexual assault rates in the US, a 587 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 1: lot of times there is a statistically greater chance of 588 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:54,760 Speaker 1: the worst case scenario happening at home rather than abroad. 589 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 1: So in Sierra's case, for instance, according to data collected 590 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,840 Speaker 1: by the U. S. State Department, which keeps tabs on 591 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,239 Speaker 1: violence against American tourists, it found that there had been 592 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 1: three murders of US tourists in Turkey, and I think 593 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:14,120 Speaker 1: it was either five or ten year long period, and 594 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 1: Sierra was a New Yorker, which meant that in two 595 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 1: thousand eleven alone, there were five hundred and two murders. 596 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 1: So statistically speaking, in a way, she was actually safer 597 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 1: in Turkey than she was in New York City. Right. 598 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,320 Speaker 1: And when we look over to Dysan McClain, who's the 599 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: former New York Times Frugal Traveler columnist, she talks about 600 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:42,359 Speaker 1: how she has actually felt safest in countries that tend 601 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:46,359 Speaker 1: to have a more patriarchal or repressive society because those 602 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,760 Speaker 1: cultures tend to have lower crime rates and the local 603 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 1: women tend to be more protective of traveling women, particularly 604 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,800 Speaker 1: those women that they see traveling by themselves. Now, obviously, 605 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:02,239 Speaker 1: in those kinds of societies, women travelers need to pay 606 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 1: attention to the clothes that they're wearing. They need to 607 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 1: be respectful of the local customs and not just try 608 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 1: to bulldoze in and say free the nipples. I'm just 609 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,839 Speaker 1: gonna come in here and change everything. Um. And when 610 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,160 Speaker 1: you are being a respectful traveler, tourists, whatever you wanna 611 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:21,480 Speaker 1: call it, yeah, it's a lot of women travelers talk 612 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 1: about how local women reach out to them and you know, 613 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,879 Speaker 1: try to kind of give them help along the way. 614 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,920 Speaker 1: And this is not to say thumbs up to super repressive, 615 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:38,680 Speaker 1: patriarchal societies, but rather to re examine Okay, how realistic 616 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 1: is this overwhelming fear of women traveling alone? Is this 617 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:46,960 Speaker 1: rooted in reality or rooted in our fears about women 618 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:52,239 Speaker 1: traveling alone? Because I think one of the biggest fears, um, 619 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 1: and I've felt this fear before as well of traveling alone, 620 00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:58,439 Speaker 1: is the risk of sexual assault. We made a joke 621 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,840 Speaker 1: about rape whistles, but I've think that you know, putting 622 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,440 Speaker 1: yourself out in the world, in a in an unknown 623 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 1: place does can make you feel very vulnerable. But again, 624 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 1: when you look at the statistics, leaving your home doesn't 625 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 1: necessarily make you less safe or more at risk for 626 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 1: sexual assault. So, for instance, um, there isn't hard data 627 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 1: on all sexual assaults reported by female travelers, but the 628 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 1: New York Times reports that from two thousand twelve to 629 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:38,600 Speaker 1: two thousand thirteen, three British travelers requested consular assistance after 630 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 1: alleged sexual attacks. For comparison, the Rape Crisis England and 631 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:50,480 Speaker 1: Whales Center estimates that five thousand women are raped in 632 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:55,920 Speaker 1: those countries every year. So yet, again, what are we 633 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 1: so afraid of? Is it reality or is it just 634 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: our concerns about the general vulnerability of women being out 635 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 1: on their own? Yeah, I mean, I do think it. 636 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:11,440 Speaker 1: There's a lot about how society or societies view women 637 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 1: and how they move through those societies well, and it 638 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 1: could because it's that fear and the warning that we 639 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,759 Speaker 1: shouldn't do that, and then if something happens, we are 640 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,880 Speaker 1: the ones to blame. It's a bit rape culturally when 641 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 1: you think about it, and you know, we've we've already 642 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 1: said that. There are situations where, whether you're at home 643 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,279 Speaker 1: or abroad, honestly, you know, you just want to be 644 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:34,839 Speaker 1: smart and be aware, and so there are some tips 645 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:39,239 Speaker 1: to keep in mind when you are traveling by yourself. Um. 646 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,759 Speaker 1: One that Jody Edinburgh at Legal Nomad brings up is 647 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 1: that it's a balance that you have to strike between 648 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,320 Speaker 1: thinking smart and trying to stay safe and also not 649 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:53,360 Speaker 1: succumbing to the fear. She recommends carrying a rubber doorstop 650 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,000 Speaker 1: to use in your hotel room, a safety whistle, staying 651 00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,680 Speaker 1: in well lit areas, watching your drink, which is just 652 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,320 Speaker 1: at advice for life. Dress conservatively. This is a common 653 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,000 Speaker 1: refrain that we hear on a lot of travel tip blogs. 654 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:11,080 Speaker 1: Don't give away details about what you're staying to strangers, 655 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,640 Speaker 1: be careful with your eye contact, and maybe option wearing sunglasses. 656 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:19,320 Speaker 1: There's the example that one blog gave of being in 657 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 1: like Northern Europe versus Southern Europe, and if you're in Italy, 658 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:24,960 Speaker 1: there's the whole thing about eye contact and a smile 659 00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 1: being considered an invitation to engage, and that maybe if 660 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,880 Speaker 1: you're not looking to engage in conversation, put on some 661 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,719 Speaker 1: some big old sunglasses. Should you wear your sunglasses at night? 662 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:40,560 Speaker 1: Like the song goes totally, And going back to that 663 00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 1: University of Florida study that we talked about earlier, some 664 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,319 Speaker 1: of the tips from the veteran women travelers who were 665 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,080 Speaker 1: involved with that talked about how important it was to 666 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,479 Speaker 1: really know where you're going, in the sense of knowing 667 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,080 Speaker 1: the country, knowing the culture, and on top of that, 668 00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,919 Speaker 1: and this is stressed over and over and over again, 669 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:04,200 Speaker 1: and particularly for women traveling alone, to select accommodations in 670 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 1: safer parts of town. You might want to spend more 671 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:11,480 Speaker 1: money on going to, say, a name brand hotel, rather 672 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,400 Speaker 1: than staying at a hostle off the beaten path that 673 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:18,480 Speaker 1: might not have twenty four hour security um. And I 674 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,520 Speaker 1: think those are one of the things where it's not 675 00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 1: so much fearmongering, but that's just a basic safety measure. 676 00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 1: But I hated I hated. I hate it because, like 677 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,399 Speaker 1: what I mean, I was a college student who didn't 678 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:32,000 Speaker 1: have the money to stay in a hotel. I mean, 679 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:37,600 Speaker 1: you know, so I I picked hostels instead, stayed with strangers, 680 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,719 Speaker 1: slept in a room in on the west coast of 681 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,640 Speaker 1: Ireland with like twenty other people, one of whom was 682 00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,640 Speaker 1: a ginormous man on the bunk below me who snored 683 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,160 Speaker 1: all night. But when you're like like a terrible level 684 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:51,840 Speaker 1: of tired, you can sleep through it. I show you. 685 00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 1: But um no, but I hate that advice that you 686 00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,239 Speaker 1: need to stay in a nicer hotel because that is 687 00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,960 Speaker 1: incredibly limiting. Well that's one thing that this came up 688 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:04,800 Speaker 1: actually in the New York Times Frugal Traveler column, which 689 00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 1: is written right now by a guy, and he gets 690 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,440 Speaker 1: a lot of responses from people saying, we really need 691 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:13,319 Speaker 1: to hear from women. There have been I think two 692 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,200 Speaker 1: or three women before him who were at the helm 693 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,719 Speaker 1: of a column, and you know, he hears from people 694 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,040 Speaker 1: saying like, well, sure you can go and live on 695 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,719 Speaker 1: a dime because you're a guy and you can travel anywhere, 696 00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:27,320 Speaker 1: and that might be more of a challenge for a 697 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 1: woman who really wants to be as take as many precautions. 698 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,239 Speaker 1: I should say as possible. I don't want to say 699 00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:35,439 Speaker 1: as safe as possible, because I feel like that also 700 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,960 Speaker 1: still feeds into this whole like, you know, threatening message 701 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:41,600 Speaker 1: that women get who want to travel on their own. 702 00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:46,000 Speaker 1: But if you want to take as many precautions as possible, 703 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,160 Speaker 1: staying at the nicer spot in a well lit area 704 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:55,800 Speaker 1: is a big one. Yeah, just prepare yourself some hustles 705 00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:59,359 Speaker 1: like have dance parties all night. I'm just gonna warn 706 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 1: you about that. And on top of that, there is 707 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:06,200 Speaker 1: an even more depressingly common piece of advice, which is 708 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:10,600 Speaker 1: to where a wedding ring real or fake, And even 709 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:15,320 Speaker 1: as a travel expert, Rick Steves suggested carry a picture 710 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:19,160 Speaker 1: of a real or fake husband. And I feel so 711 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:23,600 Speaker 1: conflicted about this one, particularly going to the extent of 712 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,680 Speaker 1: carrying a photo of a husband, because it's yet another 713 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:32,080 Speaker 1: example of whether you are abroad or if you are 714 00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:36,000 Speaker 1: at a bar down the street, where if someone is 715 00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,520 Speaker 1: giving you unwanted sexual attention, the quickest way to stop 716 00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,759 Speaker 1: it is to not say no, thanks, not interested, but 717 00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:46,160 Speaker 1: to rather say I have a boyfriend, I have a husband. 718 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,560 Speaker 1: Even if you were to say, and it is the truth, 719 00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:51,239 Speaker 1: oh I have a girlfriend, won't stop it. You gotta 720 00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,200 Speaker 1: say I have a boyfriend. You need to show the 721 00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:58,160 Speaker 1: presence of another male in your life. And I want 722 00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:02,360 Speaker 1: to hear from listeners on that one, because, like I like, 723 00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:05,600 Speaker 1: the feminists inside of me wants to fight that one 724 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:10,200 Speaker 1: so much. But I mean, like we said earlier, we 725 00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:15,320 Speaker 1: can't go into other societies, other cultures, you know, determined 726 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,080 Speaker 1: to change the way things are, because we're just not. Yeah, 727 00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,600 Speaker 1: it's not our job to go and fight the patriarchy, right, 728 00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:27,160 Speaker 1: and so it stinks. But if you want to avoid hassle, 729 00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,520 Speaker 1: you gotta wear your sunglasses. And maybe you got to 730 00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:32,680 Speaker 1: wear a wedding ring. Well, And I could see, okay, 731 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,960 Speaker 1: I could see if I was traveling alone, and particularly 732 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,360 Speaker 1: if I wanted to go out at night, then putting 733 00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,640 Speaker 1: on the wedding ring, because I feel like that's when 734 00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:46,520 Speaker 1: it's you know, the fear probably creeps in the most. Um. 735 00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,799 Speaker 1: So if you wanted to go have a nice dinner, 736 00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:53,600 Speaker 1: have a drink at a bar, maybe it would just 737 00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:55,920 Speaker 1: kind of you know, it serves like it put a 738 00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:59,920 Speaker 1: radar shield around you. Um. But I mean, I think 739 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,719 Speaker 1: to that just depends on what country you're traveling in, 740 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,640 Speaker 1: what type of culture you're traveling in. When I was traveling, 741 00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:09,880 Speaker 1: I had zip zero problems with people harassing me. The 742 00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:11,680 Speaker 1: only time I was harassed is when I had been 743 00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,200 Speaker 1: up for thirty six hours or so in Dublin and 744 00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:16,640 Speaker 1: some guys were hassling me about taking up an entire 745 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,560 Speaker 1: booth in a pub by myself. Like, listen, I'm sorry 746 00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:21,839 Speaker 1: that I'm not really caring about etiquette right now as 747 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:26,000 Speaker 1: far as where I sit. I'm just so tired. But no, 748 00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:29,480 Speaker 1: they weren't. There was no sexual advances there, so that's good. Yeah, 749 00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:33,880 Speaker 1: because look, you are yet another one of the women 750 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:36,320 Speaker 1: who have traveled alone and come back to tell the 751 00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,720 Speaker 1: tale that it is okay out there in the world. 752 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:42,720 Speaker 1: It's awesome, it's I I I enjoyed, I super enjoyed 753 00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:46,239 Speaker 1: traveling by myself. Well, and they're also advantages of being 754 00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,400 Speaker 1: a solo female traveler. I feel like a lot of 755 00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:51,920 Speaker 1: times the conversation stops at the fear factor, but there 756 00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 1: are plenty of advantages, such as, first and foremost, being 757 00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,640 Speaker 1: able to see the world on your own terms and 758 00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:00,400 Speaker 1: your own schedule. You could sit in that booth at 759 00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:02,960 Speaker 1: the pub in Ireland as long as you wanted, Caroline, well, 760 00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:07,319 Speaker 1: until those guys until they until they were complaining too loudly. Um. 761 00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:09,520 Speaker 1: And then there's the whole thing about women tending to 762 00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:12,319 Speaker 1: get invited to people's homes more often and maybe being 763 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:16,080 Speaker 1: more protected by locals. I this is absolutely something that 764 00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:19,400 Speaker 1: I experienced when I was on the West Coast of Ireland. 765 00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:21,680 Speaker 1: I wandered into this pub and I didn't have any cash, 766 00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:23,880 Speaker 1: but they had a twenty five euro credit card minimum, 767 00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,160 Speaker 1: Like just kill me, right, So I was like, okay, 768 00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:28,839 Speaker 1: give me all the fish and chips and as much 769 00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,239 Speaker 1: guinness as I can swallow. So I'm sitting there and 770 00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:34,759 Speaker 1: I'm like stuffed to the gills and I'm drunk because 771 00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,759 Speaker 1: I've been drinking all this guinness. And I walk up 772 00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,600 Speaker 1: to the bar and I'm like, have I reached the 773 00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:43,640 Speaker 1: minimum yet? And this couple next to me, here's my 774 00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,160 Speaker 1: accent and they start talking to me and they it 775 00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:50,279 Speaker 1: turns out they are a couple from New Jersey who 776 00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:52,640 Speaker 1: quit the rat race. Their kids were done with school, 777 00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:55,160 Speaker 1: they quit the rat race, moved to the West Coast 778 00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:59,200 Speaker 1: of Ireland. In this tiny town of Dulin opened to 779 00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:04,399 Speaker 1: stained glass shop and lived above it, and they were 780 00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:06,920 Speaker 1: so sad to hear my story about losing my luggage 781 00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:09,520 Speaker 1: and that all I wanted to do was take a 782 00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:11,680 Speaker 1: hot shower after a day of traveling, and they were like, well, 783 00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:15,239 Speaker 1: wait here, and the wife ran back to the house 784 00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,080 Speaker 1: and got me a towel so that I could shower 785 00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:18,680 Speaker 1: that night, and we just sat there at the bar 786 00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,359 Speaker 1: and talked. Turns out their son, I don't know if 787 00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:24,600 Speaker 1: he still is, but was a police officer from around 788 00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:28,920 Speaker 1: where I am from in Georgia. So small world, very 789 00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:30,719 Speaker 1: small world. But I think there is something to be 790 00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:36,640 Speaker 1: said for being a woman traveling by yourself being open 791 00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:40,000 Speaker 1: to those experiences. I think it's important to not shut 792 00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:43,200 Speaker 1: yourself off, but to look and feel open to talking 793 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,120 Speaker 1: to strangers absolutely, because you never know that you're going 794 00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:48,839 Speaker 1: to meet in a good way. In a good way. Yeah. 795 00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,320 Speaker 1: One tip that was brought up by traveler Emily Baron 796 00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,960 Speaker 1: talking to the New York Times Frugal Traveler was that 797 00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:00,640 Speaker 1: one other advantage you might not think abouting a woman 798 00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,160 Speaker 1: traveling alone is that you are likelier to have a 799 00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:08,120 Speaker 1: tampon on you. And she talks about how tampons can 800 00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:12,480 Speaker 1: serve as the you know, build the bridge between you 801 00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:15,359 Speaker 1: and local women, because I mean, we've all been there. 802 00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:19,879 Speaker 1: If you are in a situation where your period came, 803 00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:22,520 Speaker 1: you don't have a tampon, and the woman who has 804 00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:24,520 Speaker 1: one and hands it to you, it's almost as if 805 00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:27,880 Speaker 1: you can hear the angels saying like that, Oh, and 806 00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:31,399 Speaker 1: you're bonded immediately. And also if you break your nose, 807 00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:33,439 Speaker 1: you can shove one up your nose too. Yeah, they're 808 00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:36,759 Speaker 1: all sorts of survival uses for tampons. If you don't 809 00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:40,120 Speaker 1: believe me, google it. It's true. So I mean, guys, 810 00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:43,920 Speaker 1: obviously you can carry tampons too. It's just, you know, 811 00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:45,959 Speaker 1: it might be if a guy hands at a woman 812 00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,680 Speaker 1: a tampon, a local woman a tampon, I don't know 813 00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:52,279 Speaker 1: if it would necessarily be a bridge builder in the 814 00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,959 Speaker 1: same way as if you or I were to hand 815 00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,480 Speaker 1: her one that might halt the conversation. Yeah, yeah, I 816 00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:00,799 Speaker 1: could a little bit um. And on top of all 817 00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:04,800 Speaker 1: of it, the advantages, obviously are just the confidence building, 818 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,800 Speaker 1: the personal transformation that we hear about so often. You 819 00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:12,160 Speaker 1: can go, you can eat, you can pray, you can love, 820 00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:15,839 Speaker 1: if that's what you so desire. That was my mom 821 00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:21,920 Speaker 1: telling me about that. Yeah, I I absolutely, I absolutely 822 00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,759 Speaker 1: encourage people to do it. And there's plenty of resources 823 00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,520 Speaker 1: out there for you to learn about traveling, whether you're 824 00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,080 Speaker 1: traveling solo or a friend whoever, if you want to 825 00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:33,640 Speaker 1: go do this as a lady explorer. Yeah, there are 826 00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:37,840 Speaker 1: so many women focus travel sites and travel magazines. Caroline, 827 00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:42,480 Speaker 1: didn't we read that women traveling is so hot right now? Yeah, 828 00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,840 Speaker 1: Consumer Affairs quoted. Uh, someone is saying that it's the 829 00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:51,399 Speaker 1: new trend in travel, to which I said, wrong. But yeah, 830 00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:53,440 Speaker 1: it's good to see that that more people are actually 831 00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:57,800 Speaker 1: paying attention to this this section of the population. Apparently 832 00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:00,400 Speaker 1: that woman had never heard of Impulse the A Shington 833 00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,320 Speaker 1: that's right. I don't know, but yeah, they're all sorts 834 00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:07,480 Speaker 1: of websites out there for women's specific travel tips, such 835 00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:11,800 Speaker 1: as Women's Adventure Magazine. There's Wanderlust and Lipstick, which I 836 00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:14,319 Speaker 1: know the name might sound a little hokey, but it's 837 00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:17,760 Speaker 1: actually really good resource. There's Black Girl Travel. There's also 838 00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:20,440 Speaker 1: You Go Girl, which is from the author of the 839 00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:25,120 Speaker 1: Black Woman's Book of Travel and Adventure and Women on 840 00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:27,440 Speaker 1: the Road, etcetera. Etcetera. I mean, really, it's all just 841 00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:30,239 Speaker 1: a Google search away. And what's so encouraging I think 842 00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:32,600 Speaker 1: about it is that when you google like these types 843 00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,600 Speaker 1: of resources for women, there's so many different kinds. There 844 00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:38,520 Speaker 1: is stuff that's on the girl group side, so you're 845 00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:40,680 Speaker 1: going with a lot of women. It's a journey of 846 00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:44,320 Speaker 1: self discovery all the way to like the rustic strikeout 847 00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:46,719 Speaker 1: on your own to climb that mountain. So there's there's 848 00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:51,319 Speaker 1: just everything in between. And I like how people, whether 849 00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:54,520 Speaker 1: you're a woman entrepreneur starting a group like this or whatever. 850 00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,960 Speaker 1: I like that the fact that women are different is 851 00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,719 Speaker 1: being recognized. Yeah. Yeah, we want different things and we 852 00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:06,399 Speaker 1: enjoy different things, and that's fantastic. And I just love 853 00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:09,759 Speaker 1: though I've honestly really enjoyed just sitting here listening to 854 00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:12,759 Speaker 1: your travel stories but I've never heard before, and I 855 00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:16,960 Speaker 1: love hearing and reading other women's travel stories as well, 856 00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:21,000 Speaker 1: because not just sound cheesy, but they're very inspiring, you know, 857 00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:24,440 Speaker 1: because it can be I've been fearful before about hopping 858 00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:26,080 Speaker 1: on a plane and going to the other side of 859 00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:29,240 Speaker 1: the world, probably why I've never done it alone before. 860 00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,960 Speaker 1: But I tell you what, Caroline, after this podcast, I 861 00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:37,960 Speaker 1: am ready to go somewhere, do it. My boyfriend might 862 00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:39,759 Speaker 1: be like, hey, where are you going? You and I 863 00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:41,680 Speaker 1: should just go and then we'll just split off and 864 00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:44,279 Speaker 1: come back together at the end of it. Yeah, yeah, 865 00:51:44,360 --> 00:52:01,320 Speaker 1: and then swap our swap our stories. But now we 866 00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:04,960 Speaker 1: want to hear your stories and not just women. Any 867 00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:09,520 Speaker 1: solo traveling adventures and photos we would love to read 868 00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:12,239 Speaker 1: and to see, so please send us all of them. 869 00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,560 Speaker 1: Mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com is our 870 00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:17,680 Speaker 1: email address. You can also tweet us places you've been 871 00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:21,120 Speaker 1: pictures at mom stuff Podcasts. You can also message us 872 00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:23,120 Speaker 1: on Facebook, and we have a couple of messages to 873 00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:26,800 Speaker 1: share about our episode on World War two and Rosie 874 00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:33,120 Speaker 1: the Riveters right now, So Caroline, I have one here 875 00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:37,320 Speaker 1: from Megan, who writes my maternal grandpa dropped out of 876 00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:40,360 Speaker 1: high school in nineteen forty two and fibbed about his 877 00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:43,120 Speaker 1: age to enlist in the Marines. While on leave in 878 00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:46,719 Speaker 1: late forty four or early forty five, he married my grandmother, 879 00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:49,440 Speaker 1: who was sixteen at the time and not working due 880 00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,120 Speaker 1: to her age. She did take part in scrap metal 881 00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:55,960 Speaker 1: drives and gardened extensively. She became pregnant pretty much right 882 00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:59,440 Speaker 1: away and didn't work until the early nineteen fifties. However, 883 00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:03,000 Speaker 1: her older sister, my great aunt, did work. My family 884 00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:05,800 Speaker 1: is from East Tennessee, and my Aunt Vernell worked on 885 00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:10,239 Speaker 1: the Manhattan Project. WHOA, that's so cool. Workers in Oakridge 886 00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:12,239 Speaker 1: were not permitted to tell friends and family that they 887 00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:15,560 Speaker 1: worked for what they were doing. Maryville, where my family lives. 888 00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:18,319 Speaker 1: In oak Ridge are some thirty miles apart, and it's 889 00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:21,520 Speaker 1: possible my family wasn't aware that the secret city existed. 890 00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:24,120 Speaker 1: My aunt has told me that none of the workers, 891 00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:27,439 Speaker 1: including her, had any idea they were building bombs. Each 892 00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:29,960 Speaker 1: line of production was subdivided and kept hidden from the 893 00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:32,719 Speaker 1: other lines. And when the war ended, she married her 894 00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:35,440 Speaker 1: soldier boyfriend, had a couple of kids, worked as a 895 00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:38,200 Speaker 1: hospital nurse, and collects a pension from the government for 896 00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,759 Speaker 1: her help in aiding the war effort. Their oldest sister 897 00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:44,960 Speaker 1: was a war nurse and has unfortunately passed away. I 898 00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:46,480 Speaker 1: know I've heard some of her stories, but at the 899 00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:49,440 Speaker 1: time I was too young to realize the significance of 900 00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:53,600 Speaker 1: what I was hearing. Yeah, so thanks so much Megan 901 00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:58,359 Speaker 1: for sharing those stories. Aunt Vernell. Well, I have one 902 00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:02,680 Speaker 1: here from Laura says my great aunt who I used 903 00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:04,840 Speaker 1: to love to visit work during World War Two in 904 00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:07,720 Speaker 1: a more unusual setting. She was in the Air Force 905 00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,120 Speaker 1: and stationed for at least part of the time in Hawaii, 906 00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:13,520 Speaker 1: where she drew maps of enemy territory from descriptions given 907 00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:17,759 Speaker 1: to her by pilots. She was quote unquote older, being 908 00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,239 Speaker 1: in her mid twenties at the time, so I got 909 00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:22,400 Speaker 1: the impression that she had a higher rank than the 910 00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:25,560 Speaker 1: young men she was stationed with. I believe it was 911 00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:28,080 Speaker 1: during this time she interacted with some of the higher 912 00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:31,799 Speaker 1: up people, including Winston Churchill, as they needed to view 913 00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:35,239 Speaker 1: her work. Also, from what I understand, you can see 914 00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:38,799 Speaker 1: some of her work today at the Smithstonian. Her name 915 00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:43,239 Speaker 1: is Mary Taylor. Heis that's h I s E. So 916 00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:45,719 Speaker 1: thank you, Laura. I am so blown away by our 917 00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:49,359 Speaker 1: cool listeners and they're really cool grandmothers and great aunt, 918 00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:53,360 Speaker 1: great aunts and well, if you have cool stories about 919 00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:56,279 Speaker 1: your Rose of the riveter, grandmother, a great aunt, or 920 00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:59,480 Speaker 1: travel stories, you want to hear all of them. Mom 921 00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:01,600 Speaker 1: Stuff at how stuff works dot com is where you 922 00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:04,000 Speaker 1: can email us and for links to all of our 923 00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:07,279 Speaker 1: social media's as well as all of our blogs. Podcasts 924 00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:11,040 Speaker 1: and videos to perhaps keep you entertained on your travels 925 00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:14,080 Speaker 1: and beyond. There's one place to go, and it's Stuff 926 00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:20,239 Speaker 1: Mom Never told you dot com For more on this 927 00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:23,080 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Isn't How Stuff Works dot 928 00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:23,319 Speaker 1: com