Speaker 1: Hey, hey, ba fam, are you ready to level up
Speaker 1: your career finally and make twenty twenty five your most
Speaker 1: ambitious year yet? If you're nodding along, I have got
Speaker 1: something amazing for you. It's called the Five Day Career
Speaker 1: Reboot Challenge. This five day challenge kicks off January fifteenth,
Speaker 1: and it is packed with strategies to help you tackle
Speaker 1: the job market like a pro. This challenge includes daily
Speaker 1: emails with exclusive video lessons from me, your favorite career
Speaker 1: coach and brand Ambition host Mandy. Every day, I'm going
Speaker 1: to walk you through actionable steps to make your career
Speaker 1: reboot a success. It's going to be like having your
Speaker 1: own personal coach cheering you on every step of the way.
Speaker 1: You're also going to get two live group coaching calls
Speaker 1: with me where we can dive deeper and answer your
Speaker 1: questions live and you feel like you're not in this alone.
Speaker 1: I'm going to teach you how to use cutting edge
Speaker 1: AI tools to revamp your resume and your LinkedIn profile
Speaker 1: so your brand is poppin'. I'm also going to help
Speaker 1: you take the cringe out of networking so you can
Speaker 1: find the right people who can open doors you didn't
Speaker 1: even know existed. Now here's the investment. You can join
Speaker 1: the Career Reboot Challenge now for just ninety seven dollars.
Speaker 1: But you got a hurry because the price is going
Speaker 1: up to one twenty seven on January seventh. Don't miss
Speaker 1: out lock in this lower rate now. Okay, So, if
Speaker 1: you're ready to transform your career, head over to mandymoney
Speaker 1: dot com slash Reboot to sign up today. That's m
Speaker 1: A N d I money dot com slash Reboot. Don't
Speaker 1: be playing and spelled my name wrong. It's Mandy with
Speaker 1: an I. Okay. If I'm gonna call y'all bea fam,
Speaker 1: you gotta spell my name right. Mandymoney dot com slash
Speaker 1: Reboot spots are limited and you don't want to miss
Speaker 1: this opportunity. Remember, bafam, your dream job is closer than
Speaker 1: you think, but you're not gonna get it unless you
Speaker 1: take action and start taking the small steps that can
Speaker 1: get you there. Visit Mandy money dot com slash Reboot
Speaker 1: now and let's get started on your next big career move. Hey, hey,
Speaker 1: ba fam, we have some company in the studeo today.
Speaker 1: This has been a long time coming and I can't
Speaker 1: think of a better way to kick off the year,
Speaker 1: especially when Brown Ambition fam, y'all have been so generous
Speaker 1: and kind to let me peek into the window of
Speaker 1: your financial stressors, Like what is keeping you up at night?
Speaker 1: What is getting y'all stressed when it comes to your finances?
Speaker 1: Is it housing? Is it groceries? Is it jobs? Is
Speaker 1: it transportation? And I have to say, I'm going to
Speaker 1: share some of those survey results with y'all, but because
Speaker 1: of the results, I just knew I had to do
Speaker 1: an episode all around the dirty D word debt, debt, debt, debt, debt, y'all.
Speaker 1: One of the most viral clips from Brown Ambition of
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four was when I Mandy Woodrow Santos, raised
Speaker 1: my hand and I said, yeah, I'm in a bad
Speaker 1: financial place too. I'm in a tough financial spot, like
Speaker 1: housing is so incredibly expensive, taking care of these babies
Speaker 1: is so incredibly expensive. It's like I don't have one mortgage,
Speaker 1: I have three because childcare right and be a fam. Overwhelmingly,
Speaker 1: y'all were so compassionate, but you also shared your stories,
Speaker 1: and that's why I decided let me actually do a
Speaker 1: survey of our audience. It has been a long time,
Speaker 1: and because of that survey, like I said, I just
Speaker 1: knew that I wasn't alone. And Brown Ambition was literally
Speaker 1: created so that we could have a non judgmental table
Speaker 1: to come to. Y'all can feel like you're sitting across
Speaker 1: from your sister friends and we can get through the
Speaker 1: tough times together. So in twenty twenty five, to kick
Speaker 1: off the year, I had to invite some friends along
Speaker 1: for the journey as well, and I couldn't think of
Speaker 1: a more incredible pair than the two women who are
Speaker 1: in the studio today. So let's give a warm ba
Speaker 1: fan welcome to today's company. We have Dasha Kennedy, aka
Speaker 1: the Broke Black Girl. Y'all may know her from these
Speaker 1: Internet streets. Dasha has been a guest on Brown Ambition before,
Speaker 1: and today she is here. She's a trailblazing financial activist
Speaker 1: and educator who's committed to transforming the world of finance
Speaker 1: into a more equitable and accessible space for women, and
Speaker 1: she is joined by her partner in crime for the day,
Speaker 1: Natalia Brown. If y'all haven't heard of Natalia, you must
Speaker 1: get to know my friend, my new friend. Now. She
Speaker 1: has spent on at nearly a decade now working at
Speaker 1: the National Debt Relief. She is the chief Compliance Officer
Speaker 1: and Consumer Affairs Officer at National Debt Relief. And Natalia
Speaker 1: and Dasha are here today because DAYSHA partners with National
Speaker 1: Debt Relief and I want to talk to y'all about
Speaker 1: the word that is keeping me and OURBA fam all
Speaker 1: up at night. So we're going to talk through, hopefully
Speaker 1: a little bit about how the heck a company like
Speaker 1: National Debt Relief even works because I think I ton't
Speaker 1: to tell you when we first met. I have I
Speaker 1: have some questions. Debt relief agencies get a bad rap.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of confusion about what they do what
Speaker 1: they don't do. So I want to get to the
Speaker 1: nitty gritty of like how can y'all help consumers. And then, Dasha,
Speaker 1: you're always giving incredible finance tips to your audience and
Speaker 1: real world talk. I know because you're raising two boys.
Speaker 1: We all have two boys each. Do we decide that
Speaker 1: that's that's a crazy coincidence? And I know that you've
Speaker 1: got some real incredible tips for our audience as well
Speaker 1: on how they can start tackling their debts. So, without
Speaker 1: further ado, welcome ladies.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having us.
Speaker 1: And just for the say hi va vam. So can
Speaker 1: each of y'all just say a few words so that
Speaker 1: people can get used to your voice, because don't you know,
Speaker 1: when like you're on a podcast and you hear three
Speaker 1: different people, you're like, who that whod so day? Should
Speaker 1: you go first?
Speaker 3: Well, I'm Deisha Kennedy, creator of the Roqueg Girl. I'm
Speaker 3: super excited to be here today just to talk about
Speaker 3: it too. Was like you said, I think that within
Speaker 3: itself gets a bad reputation, and we'll really talk about it.
Speaker 3: We find out that it's not this boogieman that has
Speaker 3: been made out to be.
Speaker 1: I don't believe you. I think it absolutely is a
Speaker 1: boogeyman and it's on my back daysha. Okay, So Dasha
Speaker 1: got that real southern where are you from again?
Speaker 3: From the Middlewest? From Saint Louis, Missouri born and raised.
Speaker 1: Oh Saint Louis. I was like, it's country, but it's not.
Speaker 1: It's that nelly country. Okay, gotcha. But now you're in
Speaker 1: Atlanta or word, yes, you're in the A Okay, all right,
Speaker 1: get a little southern flavor, all right, Natalia? All right,
Speaker 1: your turn my turn.
Speaker 2: So I'm Natalia. I just go by that most of
Speaker 2: the time. And I love that you said that Mandy,
Speaker 2: debt doesn't have to be a boogeyman, but I know
Speaker 2: it feels that way. But all you need is a plan,
Speaker 2: and it always feels better. Once you have a plan,
Speaker 2: you know what direction you're going in. And there is
Speaker 2: a lot of stigma. There's a lot of stigma around
Speaker 2: debt itself, around debt relief companies, what we do, what
Speaker 2: we don't do. And the reality is that there are
Speaker 2: laws that you know are in place to protect consumers.
Speaker 2: I am that is my job is to protect our consumers,
Speaker 2: and I'm always putting people first. So I think we
Speaker 2: can talk about that at length. And I hope you
Speaker 2: feel better at the end of it.
Speaker 1: Oh that's kind. I hope that y'all feel better too,
Speaker 1: but at the very least feel better because you are
Speaker 1: not alone. So according to our survey, and I'm happy
Speaker 1: to hear nat if you guys have done any data,
Speaker 1: But like, we get it, people are in debt. Like
Speaker 1: the economy right now for me is like, yeah, businesses
Speaker 1: are making money, but they're making money because things are
Speaker 1: so so much more expensive and us underneath that, you know,
Speaker 1: like everyday working class Americans, we are getting squished. Over
Speaker 1: fifty percent of y'all said you were somewhat worried about
Speaker 1: your finances, twenty percent said you're very worried, and there's
Speaker 1: another twenty percent that are extremely worried. So that means
Speaker 1: literally everybody who listens to the show is a little
Speaker 1: bit at least somewhat worried about their finances. And so
Speaker 1: many of you guys are very worried. And number one
Speaker 1: on the list of biggest sources of financial stress, can
Speaker 1: you believe it's paying down debt? Fifty eight percent of
Speaker 1: our listeners, more than half, say that paying down debt
Speaker 1: is the biggest source of financial stress. Now stress. I
Speaker 1: love that book The Body Keeps the Score, And I
Speaker 1: just know that that stress is not just about you know,
Speaker 1: something that's weighing on you that you know gives you
Speaker 1: a little bit of heartburn during the day, but it
Speaker 1: can literally make you physically ill to think about this debt.
Speaker 1: And in my case, over the years, it can make
Speaker 1: me feel like frozen, don't know what to do, don't
Speaker 1: know where to turn. So nat I'm curious because I'm
Speaker 1: gonna call you net though you said I could. I'm
Speaker 1: curious if you could talk about what it's like when
Speaker 1: people come to National debt relief in what sort of
Speaker 1: like mental state are they in at the time, and
Speaker 1: how do you guys start helping them.
Speaker 2: There is a full range. There's fear, there's anger. I
Speaker 2: think stress manifests itself very differently for different people, So
Speaker 2: we're very much trained to kind of acknowledge that. Right,
Speaker 2: some people are embarrassed because they have the good job,
Speaker 2: they've had the good life, and it's really hard to say, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I make one hundred thousand dollars, but I'm also way
Speaker 2: over my head, right. Sometimes it's you know, as your
Speaker 2: income increases, your expenses increase, or you have emergencies. So
Speaker 2: we have people like that. We also have people who
Speaker 2: may not make enough, or they've had a divorce, or
Speaker 2: their child has gotten sick. Medical reasons are a lot
Speaker 2: of reasons why a lot of people go out of
Speaker 2: debt and have to rely on credit cards as well.
Speaker 2: So they come to us in very very different ways.
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, everyone wants the
Speaker 2: same thing is to not have that stress of having
Speaker 2: to figure out where the money is going to come
Speaker 2: from to lower the cost of their interest and all
Speaker 2: of the debt that they have. So it's at the
Speaker 2: end of the day, the plan that we give people
Speaker 2: gives everyone hope, and I think that's what we try
Speaker 2: to offer as much as possible as hope and a plan.
Speaker 1: So what actually does national debt relief do? So I'm
Speaker 1: calling your number and am I going to hear from that?
Speaker 1: Is it going to be like, Hey, this is not
Speaker 1: I feel you? What's going on? Like? What is that
Speaker 1: process like? And what kinds of services do y'all offer?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 2: I hope so someone on the phone won't be me,
Speaker 2: but it will be someone on the phone that is
Speaker 2: welcoming human or not like change a human, not a computer,
Speaker 2: not a AI voice, because that's the real thing these days.
Speaker 2: An actually human person will answer the phone, ask some
Speaker 2: very simple questions and really understand what the debt landscape is,
Speaker 2: like what is the unsecure debt? Is a credit cards?
Speaker 2: Is it medical debt? Is a reprocess debt? Is it
Speaker 2: basically just unsecured. We'll take a look at that profile,
Speaker 2: look at how much you're paying in minimum balances, and
Speaker 2: then get that info.
Speaker 1: Are people is it like you're filling out a form
Speaker 1: with all of your accounts and then you guys have
Speaker 1: like a portal.
Speaker 2: Yes, with your the client's permission, we will pull credit
Speaker 2: verify everything while the client can sell us send us
Speaker 2: a statement of all of their debts, so they do
Speaker 2: have access to a portal. It will show them everything
Speaker 2: that they have. It will give them options around what
Speaker 2: program payment makes sense for them, because that can also
Speaker 2: be flexible depending on how long you want to be
Speaker 2: in a program. And the ultimate goal is to get
Speaker 2: that total debt reduced by settling one debt at a time,
Speaker 2: sometimes two at a time with a manageable monthly payment.
Speaker 2: So that's the process. It's really customized towards each individual,
Speaker 2: so there's not a one size fits all plan for anyone.
Speaker 1: But debt settlement is the goal.
Speaker 2: That settlement is a goal debt reduction. So let's say to
Speaker 2: tenthou some dollar debt our goals to try to save
Speaker 2: as much money on that debt by negotiating with that creditor.
Speaker 2: And sometimes it's a lumsome repayment, sometimes it's over terms,
Speaker 2: but it's always going to be a reduction of that
Speaker 2: ten thousand dollars so our goal is to at least
Speaker 2: get it down to five thousand plus our fee.
Speaker 1: So when you're someone like, how do you know when
Speaker 1: you have enough debt or the right kinds of debt
Speaker 1: to be a good candidate for debt settlement? And I
Speaker 1: can go ahead and describe what I think of debt
Speaker 1: settlement as and then you tell me if I'm right
Speaker 1: or wrong, because I'm kind of playing the part of
Speaker 1: a regular person. And so the way I did manage
Speaker 1: a content team for like five years, and we've heard
Speaker 1: about this stuff all the time, but whatever I forgot,
Speaker 1: But debt settlement to me is like, especially if you're
Speaker 1: just a consumer and you're being pursued by you know,
Speaker 1: let's say it's a hospital or it's a creditor credit
Speaker 1: card company for a past do debt and you call
Speaker 1: them up and you're like, I know, I owe you
Speaker 1: a thousand dollars. I can't pay it. I could pay
Speaker 1: you for hundred, and they're like, no, maybe five hundred,
Speaker 1: and then you you'll pay a lump sum and they'll,
Speaker 1: you know, go about their their day. Did I get
Speaker 1: that right?
Speaker 2: Almost? Sometimes that five hundred can be broken up over
Speaker 2: twelve months, So I'll give you a ninety percent you pass.
Speaker 1: Oh nice, Well, lump sum payment was what my That's
Speaker 1: like the three words that keep coming to my mind
Speaker 1: is like, settle your debt. But it's but you have
Speaker 1: to have the cash on hand for a lump sum,
Speaker 1: so it's good to know. Potentially you don't, you can
Speaker 1: get a payment.
Speaker 2: A flexibility that we offer, so if it's available, sure,
Speaker 2: but it's usually the best interests of our clients since
Speaker 2: there's multiple debts, to break those settlement amounts over time
Speaker 2: so that we can get things moving on each credit
Speaker 2: a little bit faster.
Speaker 1: Have you ever used debt settlement yourself, Dasha, or had
Speaker 1: to settle debts?
Speaker 3: No, well, I'll take that back, yes I did. So
Speaker 3: my experience was settling with debt was me trying to
Speaker 3: figure it out on my own. And so I'm just
Speaker 3: going to tell you what my experience was. It was
Speaker 3: me coming home one day from work. I had groceries
Speaker 3: in hand, and someone called my phone and it was
Speaker 3: a debt collector and it was a very threatening call
Speaker 3: and it was almost like, if you don't pay this debt,
Speaker 3: we're going to report it to the police. So I
Speaker 3: was extremely scared. Immediately paid it, never heard anything else
Speaker 3: about it. Now, I was in my early twenties. This
Speaker 3: probably could have been a scam, It probably could have
Speaker 3: been real. But this was just where I landed simply
Speaker 3: because I didn't know. And I'm sure that's not how
Speaker 3: debt settlement works now that I know better, but back
Speaker 3: then I ran into that a lot. So just putting
Speaker 3: myself in the shoes of someone that was just starting off.
Speaker 3: I'm sure a lot of people get calls like that.
Speaker 3: They get calls from debt collectors probably are more aggressive
Speaker 3: than what we would like, and if we don't know
Speaker 3: what our options are, we fall victims to what we
Speaker 3: think is debt settlement. But as Ned explained, we now
Speaker 3: know that it is completely different and more than that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Dashauld, When was that was that pre like
Speaker 1: consumer Financial Protection Bureau post, you know, like after the recession?
Speaker 3: This was I am I'm thirty six now, so this
Speaker 3: had to be around in my early twenties. Okay, this
Speaker 3: had to be in my early twenties when this happened.
Speaker 3: And again I was just so afraid that I just
Speaker 3: immediately paid it. And I was young, very new to
Speaker 3: learning anything about money. I knew that it was a
Speaker 3: debt that I owed, but I didn't know my options,
Speaker 3: I didn't know who to call. I didn't feel comfortable
Speaker 3: asking for it. You know, it's a whole stigma around
Speaker 3: asking for help. So when I got the call, I
Speaker 3: just wanted the problem to go away. So I just
Speaker 3: paid whatever they told me to pay, And till this day,
Speaker 3: I can't even tell you if that actually came off
Speaker 3: my credit, if I actually saw anything from it. I
Speaker 3: just made the payment.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, in that situation, it is super stressful.
Speaker 1: First of all, that sounds really that sounds like harassment.
Speaker 1: It sounds illegal. And Natalia, what would you say to
Speaker 1: someone today if they were getting those types of calls
Speaker 1: and didn't know what to do, if you could like
Speaker 1: be a magician and like you know, Genie in a
Speaker 1: bottle poof show up in front of them, what would
Speaker 1: you tell them if they're on the.
Speaker 2: Phone with absolutely illegal, especially today. It may not have
Speaker 2: been when when Dasha was getting those phone calls, but
Speaker 2: the FDCPA is an act that passed that actually protects
Speaker 2: consumers against threatening phone calls from collectors. Specifically, you can't
Speaker 2: call during certain times so they can't call you at
Speaker 2: midnight anymore. They can't show up at your house there.
Speaker 2: I actually heard some really threatening stories from some of
Speaker 2: our clients in the past as well, So they're really
Speaker 2: good rules in place to make sure that harassment doesn't occur,
Speaker 2: and if it is, know that it's illegal and that
Speaker 2: there is an act to protect against it. And I
Speaker 2: wouldn't pay anything. Like Daisha said, there's a lot of
Speaker 2: fraud and scams going on these days. I would verify
Speaker 2: that that dead is even yours and that it's a
Speaker 2: reputable company that's trying to collect from you in the
Speaker 2: first place.
Speaker 1: Okay, so many things there. So two things, what are
Speaker 1: some signs it's a fraud? And two I want to
Speaker 1: talk about how do you actually go about that debt verification?
Speaker 1: Because I know the textbook way of doing that that
Speaker 1: CFPB has on their website, but I'm just curious in reality,
Speaker 1: how does it work?
Speaker 2: Well? Well, so, one, you can always pull your credit
Speaker 2: record at least once a year. It's always free. I'm
Speaker 2: not going to vouch for any apps, but there are
Speaker 2: definitely lots of apps out there that will give you
Speaker 2: access to your credit information. So one verify that it
Speaker 2: is your debt and then two, I'd like to call
Speaker 2: people back. So if I get a phone call from someone,
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, well, what's the number where I can
Speaker 2: call you back? I can't talk right now. You don't
Speaker 2: have to be really obvious about it, but you also
Speaker 2: want to make sure that when you call back it
Speaker 2: is actually that company. You can look up their website
Speaker 2: and usually you'll get some form of written documentation. When
Speaker 2: there's a creditor, they always mail something. So if you
Speaker 2: don't have a physical document and the number doesn't quite
Speaker 2: make sense when you do like a Google look up
Speaker 2: and it's like someone's Google or voice number, that's not legitimate.
Speaker 2: People don't collect through Facebook Messenger either, right, It's usually
Speaker 2: a phone call or an actual letter. So be aware
Speaker 2: of people sending email saying I'm collecting on this debt.
Speaker 2: That's generally not accurate either.
Speaker 1: Or a text message yeah.
Speaker 2: Or a text message. Don't click any.
Speaker 1: Links even in your text now, okay, So now the
Speaker 1: debt verification that doesn't have to be a formal process.
Speaker 1: It literally is just like, does this debt sound like
Speaker 1: it's yours? And you can just check that by going
Speaker 1: to yeah, like using a credit report app. You know,
Speaker 1: going to Annual Report Annual credit Report dot com and
Speaker 1: downloading all three of your credit reports for free, like
Speaker 1: you said you can do once a year. You know,
Speaker 1: there's credit karma, there's Equifax, like all these different credit
Speaker 1: bureaus now and banks themselves. If you don't have a
Speaker 1: credit report, you're just not trying hard enough because like
Speaker 1: they're just handing them out on this street corners basically, now, okay,
Speaker 1: all right, So how do I know I'm in the
Speaker 1: How do I know it's time? Like I can't manage
Speaker 1: this and I should ask for help from an organization
Speaker 1: like National Debt Relief.
Speaker 2: I love that question because debt relief is not for everyone.
Speaker 2: I actually like to dispel that where lots of people
Speaker 2: think that it is. It is for the consumer who
Speaker 2: is contemplating bankruptcy, but they're not quite there yet. So
Speaker 2: there's different types of debt relief where maybe if you
Speaker 2: can still qualify for a loan and your credit score
Speaker 2: is still where it needs to be, that might be
Speaker 2: an option for some people. If your credit score is
Speaker 2: already in danger and you're not going to be able
Speaker 2: to qualify for a consolidation loan and credit counseling from
Speaker 2: a long term perspective, you're still paying a full debt.
Speaker 2: You're still paying interest even though it's reduced. May not
Speaker 2: be an option for some people. So then the next
Speaker 2: thing would be debt relief. So that's where you're making
Speaker 2: your minimums or just above the minimum. It's going to
Speaker 2: take you thirty forty years to pay off, you know,
Speaker 2: seventy five hundred dollars in debt because you can barely
Speaker 2: make those minimums. So our program will basically say, you know,
Speaker 2: if your minimums are adding up to seven hundred dollars
Speaker 2: a month, maybe we can get a program payment that's
Speaker 2: three hundred and fifty dollars a month, so we can
Speaker 2: work towards settling those debts, and it immediately gives some
Speaker 2: cash flowback. So it's really a cash flow issue and
Speaker 2: a long term kind of goal that you have to
Speaker 2: make for yourself. It's I want to get rid of
Speaker 2: my unsecure debt versus I want to keep my credit score.
Speaker 2: Sometimes we aren't concerned about credit. We're concerned about getting
Speaker 2: people out of debt right, and then you can rebuild
Speaker 2: credit faster than you can with bankruptcy. So that's ultimately
Speaker 2: the goal and the consumer that we like to work with.
Speaker 1: So those are like the Big three. I guess four
Speaker 1: you have sort of like debt consolidation, like a DII
Speaker 1: debt consolidation. So like in my experience, you can if
Speaker 1: you have good credit, you can leverage that and get
Speaker 1: like a fixed rate personal loan, you know that you
Speaker 1: can use to pay off some debt, and then you
Speaker 1: have one payment versus how three or four however many
Speaker 1: no credit cards you've paid off, that's an option. Then
Speaker 1: you have credit counseling. So credit counseling. Can you describe
Speaker 1: that for me, because I'm not even sure if I
Speaker 1: can tell the difference between credit counseling and like debt relief.
Speaker 2: So credit counseling, you're still paying full balance, right, So
Speaker 2: what credit counseling does. It says, we'll still give you
Speaker 2: a one type of payment, one payment per month. However,
Speaker 2: you're still going to pay interest, So we'll take your
Speaker 2: interest from the twenty something percent that you had. Maybe
Speaker 2: we'll give you ten percent, whatever deal that they can
Speaker 2: get with your creditors. So if you all ten thousand,
Speaker 2: you're still paying ten thousand plus interests and that will
Speaker 2: take however much time, right, and if you fail out,
Speaker 2: you miss a payment, there's really negative consequences to that, right,
Speaker 2: so you actually start right back to where you are.
Speaker 2: The interest comes back to your accounts, and it's kind
Speaker 2: of a cycle that you end up starting again. So
Speaker 2: if someone is looking at credit counseling, you have to
Speaker 2: be really sure you can make those months payments so
Speaker 2: that you don't have to stop from the beginning all
Speaker 2: over again. The difference with debt relief is you we
Speaker 2: aren't reducing any interest. We are taking that balance when
Speaker 2: you enroll. Let's say it's ten thousand dollars, we are
Speaker 2: looking to reduce that amount to about fifty percent, which
Speaker 2: would be about five thousand dollars. And whether that's a
Speaker 2: lump or over time, that is all you're going to pay.
Speaker 2: Then that account is closed. It is done. Versus you know,
Speaker 2: a longer term situation and credit counseling. So one is
Speaker 2: a little bit faster than the other.
Speaker 1: So even if it's like I have a ten thousand
Speaker 1: dollars credit card balance and maybe it's spread across three cards,
Speaker 1: through debt relief, I could or y'all could negotiate that
Speaker 1: down to like five thousand dollars but there would be
Speaker 1: no interest or that would be like inclusive of any interest,
Speaker 1: Like I wouldn't be that five thousand is not going
Speaker 1: to go off and like continue growing as I pay
Speaker 1: it down? Right, Interesting, how do you guys manage that?
Speaker 1: What actually happens behind the Wizard of Oz curtain? What
Speaker 1: y'all do?
Speaker 3: It's not working?
Speaker 2: We basically when a client enrolls, that's the balance that
Speaker 2: we work with, right, So there might be interest that
Speaker 2: does accrue, but when we look at that and when
Speaker 2: we give a quote to a consumer, we're basing it
Speaker 2: off the day that they enrolled into our program. So
Speaker 2: when we get a settlement, that's what we aim to do.
Speaker 2: It's a matter of building the relationships with our creditors.
Speaker 2: There's leverage, right. We have hundreds of thousands of clients,
Speaker 2: So we do a lot of work to make sure
Speaker 2: that we can negotiate the best rates for our consumers
Speaker 2: because we actually have leverage for our consumers because there's
Speaker 2: such a big client base that we can work with.
Speaker 1: Interesting, what are some of the biggest clients that you
Speaker 1: guys do work with?
Speaker 2: Do you mean banks or.
Speaker 1: Banks or is it like credit issuers lenders?
Speaker 2: We work with lenders. We work with first party banks,
Speaker 2: we work the debt collection agencies, And there's this thing
Speaker 2: called debt buyers. Those are people that buy debt that
Speaker 2: couldn't be collected on before and it kind of gets
Speaker 2: sold over and over and over again. We work with
Speaker 2: them as well. So anyone who is an issuer or
Speaker 2: is collecting on unsecure debt, we work with them.
Speaker 1: Okay, so because you guys have such a big portfolio,
Speaker 1: I'm Mandy, I enroll in debt relief. Then you can
Speaker 1: say it's are you even like calling up my personal
Speaker 1: creditor and talking about me and my debt? Or is
Speaker 1: it like I'm calling on behalf of the seventy five consumers.
Speaker 1: I have all their information and we want to get
Speaker 1: their debts collectively down.
Speaker 2: It depends on what's best for the consumer. It really
Speaker 2: does depend because each issuer and collector has different rules
Speaker 2: and parameters. So there are definitely times where it's an
Speaker 2: individual like this is the person that I'm helping right now.
Speaker 2: I actually used to be a negotiator. And there are
Speaker 2: other times where a debt buyer, for example, might say, hey,
Speaker 2: we've had this on our books for a really long time.
Speaker 2: We'll give you a really low percentage if you can
Speaker 2: give us at least however many so we'll go through
Speaker 2: our database and try to figure out who can afford
Speaker 2: the kind of you know, fire sales settlements, right, So
Speaker 2: it could be a little bit of both. It just
Speaker 2: depends on what's best for the consumer and what's the
Speaker 2: best timing how much money is available. There's a lot
Speaker 2: of different factors that go into it.
Speaker 1: Are there sometimes, like we've talked about older debts before,
Speaker 1: Are there sometimes, like for either of y'all, where it
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense to like settle older debts because maybe
Speaker 1: they're about to fall off your credit report.
Speaker 2: It depends. Different states have different rules unfortunately, so there
Speaker 2: are states where, yeah, it doesn't make sense. There are
Speaker 2: other states where you know, the statute limitations that I
Speaker 2: think is what you're referring to maybe different. Some places
Speaker 2: a seven years, some places it's three years. So it
Speaker 2: depends on the state, and it depends on when you
Speaker 2: last major payment, when you last made contact. Each state
Speaker 2: has weird rules. So sometimes yes, sometimes now so we
Speaker 2: definitely have a database that kind of tells us what
Speaker 2: it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1: Got to have like PTSD from putting together a crazy chart.
Speaker 1: When I was managing that content team, I was like,
Speaker 1: let's do a chart, and it's going to be every
Speaker 1: state and every type of consumer debt, and we're going
Speaker 1: to tell you what the stat sheeted limitations are. Can
Speaker 1: you imagine what a pain? So you're in compliance, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like, I see what? So depending like, do you
Speaker 1: work with people in every state across the country?
Speaker 3: Just about?
Speaker 2: So, there's maybe five states that we don't operate in,
Speaker 2: but for the most part, we are in every single state,
Speaker 2: or at least can offer debt really for every single state.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, gotcha? All right, Now, how do y'all make money?
Speaker 1: So does a business?
Speaker 2: As a business, we do charge your fee. And I'll say,
Speaker 2: like some people will say, I might jump the question,
Speaker 2: why are you charging your fee? There's free services out there,
Speaker 2: and that's absolutely true, but they can't scale. So in
Speaker 2: order for us to do the work that we're doing
Speaker 2: for as many people as we're doing, we need operating costs.
Speaker 2: So that's where that fee comes in. So that fea set,
Speaker 2: it doesn't fluctuate. It's told upfront and we actually bake
Speaker 2: it into that monthly program payment so that it's not
Speaker 2: an additional cost on top of anything else. We give
Speaker 2: you one quote. We are not going to ask you
Speaker 2: for anything else. We're not going to change fees on you.
Speaker 2: So it can be anywhere between fifteen and twenty five
Speaker 2: percent of the amount that you enrolled, right, So even
Speaker 2: if it increases, we're not charging anymore.
Speaker 1: Okay, does it often increase? Because that's one thing about debtman,
Speaker 1: when you're trying to get sometimes if you don't and
Speaker 1: we'll get to this, get to the heart of the issue,
Speaker 1: you can just be coming back six months later like
Speaker 1: I got some more debt.
Speaker 2: How Yeah, it happens. Well, reporting on credit reports it's
Speaker 2: not always accurate, right, Sometimes there are things that are
Speaker 2: not reporting that pop up later that we'll add to
Speaker 2: the program for our consumers. There are other times when
Speaker 2: it actually happened to me when I bought my first
Speaker 2: like furniture set, and I didn't understand that that zero
Speaker 2: percent interest for twenty four months and then it all
Speaker 2: hit me at once. So I got myself into a
Speaker 2: little bit of child And that will happen as well.
Speaker 2: So those promotional kind of debts that people think are
Speaker 2: really great and then you get hit with a bunch
Speaker 2: of ventures all at once, and that balance kind of
Speaker 2: doubles overnight. That happens as well. And then, to be
Speaker 2: quite honest, people can find themselves in desperate situations and
Speaker 2: may may need to swipe that card while they're in
Speaker 2: the program, and it happened to be still open because
Speaker 2: they blew a tire and they couldn't afford that emergency.
Speaker 2: So there are a bunch of different reasons why it
Speaker 2: might increase, But we tend to just work with each
Speaker 2: individual consumer and have those conversations depending on what the
Speaker 2: situation is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was something that I had that was like
Speaker 1: an idea that I had about about debt really from before,
Speaker 1: is that you have to close get your accounts closed,
Speaker 1: like you can no longer use them. Is that the
Speaker 1: case you really? Sometimes?
Speaker 2: But again I like, I'm not going to present like
Speaker 2: life does not happen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you actively close the accounts, they're potentially still
Speaker 1: out there.
Speaker 2: They're potentially still out there, and the creditors will eventually
Speaker 2: close them as they pass too.
Speaker 1: I mean I opened what I opened a zero balance, Sorry,
Speaker 1: I have zero percent interest credit card. I don't know.
Speaker 1: A couple of years ago, I think it was when
Speaker 1: we were buying like furniture or something like that or
Speaker 1: some kind of big purchase paid it off and then
Speaker 1: I was like, well, I'll just keep the line of
Speaker 1: credit open, and the bank was like, no, you can't
Speaker 1: have that. We close in it.
Speaker 2: They just took making a decisions whenever they feel like it.
Speaker 2: That's the other thing. Read the fine print when you
Speaker 2: open up credit cards too, because they do reserve the
Speaker 2: right to reduce your credit limits, which sometimes, yes, puts
Speaker 2: people in a lot of trouble, especially if they were
Speaker 2: carrying a balance.
Speaker 1: Yeah, or like you know, that's such a huge part
Speaker 1: of your credit score is your available balance versus how
Speaker 1: much debt you're carrying. And it may look really cute
Speaker 1: when you have a lot of available credit, and so
Speaker 1: when they reduce your credit limit, now it's like, oh shoot,
Speaker 1: maybe you did have a twenty percent utilization rate and
Speaker 1: now it's like fifty percent, and you may see your
Speaker 1: score go down and not even know why, you know,
Speaker 1: Is there anything else people should know about debt relief
Speaker 1: or any pros and cons that you want to cover
Speaker 1: before we take a little break and come back and
Speaker 1: talk about general debt tips and how to get out
Speaker 1: of debt.
Speaker 2: Sure, I encourage people to do their research. I like
Speaker 2: to say that people look at Amazon reviews before they
Speaker 2: buy something more than when they are looking for their
Speaker 2: financial products. So be just as diligent. Don't take my
Speaker 2: word for it, don't take Dash's word for or even Mandy's, like,
Speaker 2: do your research. Look at the BBB, look at CFPB,
Speaker 2: go to the review site, see what other consumers have
Speaker 2: to say, because, like you said, there's a community of
Speaker 2: people that have already experienced this and they can actually
Speaker 2: speak more truth and be more credible when it comes
Speaker 2: to what to look for. And just make sure that
Speaker 2: these are accredited companies, even if it's not national debt. Really,
Speaker 2: just make sure you work with an accredited and reputable company.
Speaker 1: Okay, accredited? Okay? Oh and I know what I forgot
Speaker 1: to ask about bankruptcy. You mentioned bankruptcy. So like if
Speaker 1: you said, of your someone who's considering bankruptcy but you
Speaker 1: haven't filed yet, debt relief may be a step before that.
Speaker 1: Why is that in particular, because with bankruptcy there's a potential,
Speaker 1: depending on which version of it that you file, where
Speaker 1: you could maybe get a lot of your debts forgiven
Speaker 1: and whole.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So the truth of bankruptcy is there's an upfront
Speaker 2: cost to bankruptcy and that can be a small amount
Speaker 2: anywhere to a very large amount, depending on the type
Speaker 2: of attorney that you acquire. Right, A lot of people
Speaker 2: will always right. Not people don't always have that out
Speaker 2: of pocket expense upfront. So that's one hurdle to clear.
Speaker 2: The second hurdle to clear is even if you pay
Speaker 2: that fee, there is no guarantee that you will qualify
Speaker 2: for bankruptcy. So, like you said that, there's two. There's
Speaker 2: one that is really evasive, where every asset that you
Speaker 2: might have may be taken away to put towards your
Speaker 2: debt if you even qualify for that. That's basically what
Speaker 2: they call a clean slate. But it's not. It's very painful.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: If you own anything, whether it's a diamond ring, a
Speaker 2: wat home, a car, it is up for someone else
Speaker 2: to determine whether or not it's going to be sold
Speaker 2: to pay off your debt, and you have no say.
Speaker 2: The other version is a payment plan, where again a
Speaker 2: lot of people will fail out of that payment plan.
Speaker 2: You paid it up to the front attorney, you get
Speaker 2: a payment plan, you miss a payment, you start all
Speaker 2: over again. You failed out of bankruptcy, so now you're
Speaker 2: at square one. If you want to try to file again,
Speaker 2: you pay those fees again. So I like to say,
Speaker 2: try debt relief before you go to bankruptcy because the repercussions.
Speaker 2: Even if you are successful bankruptcy to rebuild your credit,
Speaker 2: it's seven to ten years that you're going to have
Speaker 2: that stain on your report. So what are your long
Speaker 2: term goals? If you're trying to buy a home in
Speaker 2: ten years, bankruptcy is probably not the best. But if
Speaker 2: you do debt relief, you could be out of debt
Speaker 2: within twelve, twelve to forty eight months, start rebuilding your
Speaker 2: credit much sooner, and put yourself on a path to
Speaker 2: home ownership or whatever your other financial goals are.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like there's so many, Like I mean,
Speaker 1: it doesn't sound like there. It's one of those trickiest
Speaker 1: The trickiest things is which option is best for me.
Speaker 1: It's so nuanced and any of these options may be
Speaker 1: right for you. So like credit counseling, debt settlement, you know,
Speaker 1: filing bankruptcy, even just floating out with debt consolidation, loans
Speaker 1: or whatever. These are all just like different options that
Speaker 1: I'm hoping by having this conversation, we're opening Yell's minds
Speaker 1: up to it. However, I think it's going to be
Speaker 1: a very personal choice and net so if someone calls
Speaker 1: National Debt Relief, they don't have to. There's no pressure
Speaker 1: to like get a plan today, right, but it can
Speaker 1: be one of the steps they take toward figuring out
Speaker 1: if it is a good fit for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's absolutely a free consultation and we actually do
Speaker 2: discuss all the options and give you that information. And
Speaker 2: it's up to the consumer decide if what option is
Speaker 2: best for them, but we do provide all that information
Speaker 2: having Oh I love.
Speaker 1: That, Okay, yeah, because you know, sometimes it's like if
Speaker 1: you go into a restaurant and you see the menu
Speaker 1: and you're like, I don't like any of this stuff.
Speaker 1: It's so hard to like go I don't know if
Speaker 1: you have that, Like someone listening is like, oh, no,
Speaker 1: you're just giving me a secondhand anxiety. But having to
Speaker 1: get up and be like, I'm so sorry, I don't
Speaker 1: want this kind of food and leaving can be Have
Speaker 1: you done that?
Speaker 2: I have?
Speaker 1: Seeh I love that, But you're a negotiation queen like me,
Speaker 1: so great. All right, so let's take a little break
Speaker 1: and when we come back, I'm going to get Dasha
Speaker 1: in the hot seat because miss broke black Girl, you
Speaker 1: need to help us not be broken anymore. Okay, please
Speaker 1: get us reach a right you're Abauba fan. All right,
Speaker 1: I am back with my guests, with our company. We
Speaker 1: got Dasha Kennedy, the broke Black Girl, and we have
Speaker 1: Natalia Brown of the National Debt Relief What is it
Speaker 1: the National Debt Relief? What or my message?
Speaker 2: Relief?
Speaker 1: National Debt Relief? Yay in the studio. So, oh my god.
Speaker 1: I mean, we've been talking about debt, y'all, and it's
Speaker 1: been a little uncomfy, but I'm already starting to feel
Speaker 1: personally a little bit better and at least like let's
Speaker 1: kick off some conversations. You know, as we've always said,
Speaker 1: when it comes to financial advice, you want to get
Speaker 1: it from a personal, personal source, someone who knows your
Speaker 1: unique situation. So all of this content, all this conversation
Speaker 1: is just for educational purposes, y'all. We're trying to help,
Speaker 1: trying to give y'all some questions, to ask, some ideas,
Speaker 1: just so that you can actually start tackling the debt
Speaker 1: that you may be carrying. That is, like I said,
Speaker 1: keeping snatching your sleep away from you. Right, Okay, So Dasha,
Speaker 1: talk to me about what happens when you're staring at
Speaker 1: a bunch of debt. And we've talked about some solutions
Speaker 1: to like getting rid of the debt, but how do
Speaker 1: we get to the underlying what usually is happening underneath
Speaker 1: that debt that is causing it? And how do we
Speaker 1: like nip that in the bud so it doesn't happen again.
Speaker 1: And you can't tell me I have to give up
Speaker 1: my children because I know they are the source of
Speaker 1: my financials dream but I love them. What do we do?
Speaker 3: I think the first thing that's really important is for
Speaker 3: us to understand that this being dead or dealing with
Speaker 3: debt is something that we all go through. It's just
Speaker 3: one piece of our personal finance journey. And I think
Speaker 3: when we humanize that, it makes dealing with this so
Speaker 3: much easier. When we realize, like, okay, debt is a tool.
Speaker 3: It doesn't define who I am. I don't have to
Speaker 3: feel bad or guilty or shamed because I've landed in debt.
Speaker 3: So I think when you were first looking at all
Speaker 3: of your dead looking at all of your numbers. That's
Speaker 3: the first thing to realize, Like, I'm not a bad person.
Speaker 3: This, this is fixable. I can't come out of this, And
Speaker 3: so I think it's first important to just recognize that
Speaker 3: when you are sitting in front of all of the notices,
Speaker 3: the phone calls, the voice messages, recognizing that this may
Speaker 3: be a bad or uncomfortable situation, but it doesn't make
Speaker 3: me a bad person, and this can be fixed.
Speaker 1: And what is it usually? Like, I mean, is it
Speaker 1: as simple as you're Like, let's say it's a classic
Speaker 1: situation where you're just not making enough to meet your expenses,
Speaker 1: Like how does that? How does And especially if you're
Speaker 1: someone who used to have more than enough, but like
Speaker 1: your expenses have increased and you may not feel comfortable
Speaker 1: like with the idea of budgeting and like having to
Speaker 1: figure out something different, Like what's your advice to someone
Speaker 1: who's maybe not so used to that, and like to
Speaker 1: get them to actually start looking at their budget and
Speaker 1: what they can trim or what they can add or
Speaker 1: take away so that they can actually start chiseling away,
Speaker 1: chipping away at that debt.
Speaker 3: Yes, I think that what's most important is to take
Speaker 3: out the assumption, take out guess work. A lot of
Speaker 3: times when we are trying to figure out what we
Speaker 3: have going on with that, we're usually guessing like, oh,
Speaker 3: I think I owe this amount, I think I have
Speaker 3: this much money coming in. So the first thing is
Speaker 3: to remove all of the guessing and actually sit down
Speaker 3: and create a list of all the desks that you owe,
Speaker 3: the balances, who you owe, how much you owe them,
Speaker 3: your other expenses that you have going on each month.
Speaker 3: And I know that that sounds so redundant.
Speaker 1: Because terrible that yes.
Speaker 3: Yes, and we hear it a lot, and it's like
Speaker 3: one of the most repetitive pieces of personal financial advice,
Speaker 3: but it's because it's the most honest thing. The only
Speaker 3: way that you're going to figure out where program is
Speaker 3: going to be best for you, what your next step
Speaker 3: is going to be, is to actually know exactly what
Speaker 3: is going on. And I tell people all the time,
Speaker 3: you only have to do this once. You only have
Speaker 3: to push through this uncomfortable feeling one time, making the list,
Speaker 3: creating the you know, gathering the numbers and all the information.
Speaker 3: You only have to do that one time. So I
Speaker 3: think it.
Speaker 1: You can do it one time, and then you just
Speaker 1: like stress about it and then you look away, and
Speaker 1: then you go about your life and then you're like,
Speaker 1: maybe we should get that spreadsheet.
Speaker 3: Yes, you get you can't just can't stop there. Because
Speaker 3: what I like to think too is like, Okay, i
Speaker 3: can let this hover over my head, and when I'm
Speaker 3: out trying to have a good time, I'm thinking about
Speaker 3: how much credit card that I got. When I'm out
Speaker 3: at my son's football game, I'm thinking about how much
Speaker 3: credit card that I got. Or I can't create the
Speaker 3: plan that one time, and I can create the plan,
Speaker 3: create the list, know everything that's going on, start working
Speaker 3: towards getting rid of it. And then when I'm out
Speaker 3: and I'm living my regular life, this isn't hovering over me.
Speaker 3: So it is uncomfortable, it's not easy, and it's not fun.
Speaker 3: But you only have to do the hardport once.
Speaker 1: I don't know about just once. It's not like you
Speaker 1: someone still got to pay it off, right, and it's
Speaker 1: all right? I got my list and now what Dasha,
Speaker 1: Now what do I do with it? Now? It's like
Speaker 1: all these different due dates and minimum payment amounts and
Speaker 1: maybe there's some zero percent stuff that's going to expire soon,
Speaker 1: so you gotta know what to do with that. What next?
Speaker 3: I think the next step will definitely be to figure
Speaker 3: out what your plan of action is. What's going to
Speaker 3: be your plan to start paying off some of the debt,
Speaker 3: to start chipping away at it. And so again, when
Speaker 3: we have these conversations and we talk about debt management
Speaker 3: or debt repayment, there's normally two things that always come up,
Speaker 3: and it is the avalanche and snowball method. So I
Speaker 3: always feel yes, yes, So for me, if anyone is
Speaker 3: familiar with my content, I am the queen of chipping
Speaker 3: away at things in small increments. Why because it is
Speaker 3: the motivation that sells me this. Having a bunch of
Speaker 3: debt hovering up your heads, that's not always motivating, that's
Speaker 3: not always exciting. But if I can find a way
Speaker 3: to chip away at this in small incremation or just
Speaker 3: make small changes, that gives me something to look forward
Speaker 3: to each day. So that takes away being scared of
Speaker 3: the boogeyman of the large number. So now I can
Speaker 3: chip away at this in small doses, and it's motivating,
Speaker 3: it's encouraging, it's something that you want to keep.
Speaker 1: Doing so in your book, which is going to be
Speaker 1: coming out in March twenty twenty five, so just a
Speaker 1: few months from now. In your book, is there a
Speaker 1: chapter on debt or more than one chapter?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely?
Speaker 1: Okay, So is it the snowball the avalanche? What kind
Speaker 1: of method do you like? What's working for your followers?
Speaker 3: So for me, it is the snowball method, but it's
Speaker 3: like it's it's with a twist. So it's the snowball
Speaker 3: method because what I've seen work the best is it
Speaker 3: being a motivating factor to getting out of debt. When
Speaker 3: we are dealing with and so now we're going to
Speaker 3: have a deeper conversation. So when we are having conversations
Speaker 3: to mostly black and brown women, we already know that
Speaker 3: more than likely we're going to run into some income issues.
Speaker 3: We're going to run into women who are probably taking
Speaker 3: on the brunch of the financial responsibilities of the household.
Speaker 3: I see this a lot in my community. So sometimes
Speaker 3: it's discouraging to say you have to pay X amount
Speaker 3: of dollars one hundred dollars or more towards a debt.
Speaker 3: Immediately I'm going to think about how much my quality
Speaker 3: of life that I'm already probably scraping by is going
Speaker 3: to change. But if someone tells me I can chip
Speaker 3: away at this in twenty five dollars increments and slowly
Speaker 3: but surely increase that by ten dollars every week. Doesn't
Speaker 3: sound like much. Now we have a good thing going,
Speaker 3: We have a good habit established, we have a good
Speaker 3: and we have a few good program not programs, but
Speaker 3: patterns set up. Now we have changed it to where
Speaker 3: now it's more motivated and I'm more excited to do
Speaker 3: this while also not having to take away from a
Speaker 3: pot that's probably already empty when I first started.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the debt snowball break it down for us.
Speaker 1: It's been a minute, but I know, be a fan yea.
Speaker 1: But listen to this show something else and writing since
Speaker 1: the beginning. We're about to do our tenth year. Can
Speaker 1: y'all believe that? Gradulu? This is Yeah? Well, thank you.
Speaker 1: I'm very excited. But also I feel like an old
Speaker 1: krusty like you mentioned some of the old personal finance advice.
Speaker 1: It is so it is like broken record because that's
Speaker 1: it's like, it is what it is. It's money, you
Speaker 1: got it, you don't. The math is math and math.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, like we these these concept
Speaker 1: of snowball methods, zero sum budgeting, debt avalanche, like I've
Speaker 1: heard about them, but like, let's reintroduce it, make it fresh,
Speaker 1: make it new. So talk about the snowball because you
Speaker 1: said you like that one, and there's actually a study
Speaker 1: that shows that the snowball is the most effective. Right,
Speaker 1: it may not save like the most overall because of
Speaker 1: the of the difference in how you structure your debts,
Speaker 1: but it has that like it has that like you said,
Speaker 1: that has this, like this this flywheel of I'm getting
Speaker 1: something done a little bit at a time, I'm seeing
Speaker 1: the balances go down. That can get addicting and can
Speaker 1: make sure that you stay motivated. So break it down
Speaker 1: for a station.
Speaker 3: Yes, so when we think about the snowball method, it
Speaker 3: really is you focusing on the smallest balance first and
Speaker 3: you're paying that off and then you use that amount
Speaker 3: to pay towards your next debt and so on and
Speaker 3: so on. So think of just like a snowball rolling
Speaker 3: down the hill. It starts off small, but as it
Speaker 3: goes down the hill, it picks up momentum to eventually
Speaker 3: you have a lot of money a lumpsum more huge
Speaker 3: ball that you can apply to your last debt at
Speaker 3: the end of the snowball methic. So the beauty here
Speaker 3: is that when you were done now, that is a
Speaker 3: lump sum of money that you can either save, invest
Speaker 3: or put back into your quality of life on a
Speaker 3: monthly basis, because you have already gotten used to living
Speaker 3: without that piece of money. And so I like that
Speaker 3: a lot because granted it may not save you the
Speaker 3: most money in the long run, but I don't like
Speaker 3: to look at things dollar by dollar because doing the
Speaker 3: avalanche method. Let's say I save a lot of money
Speaker 3: doing that, but what would I have paid for it?
Speaker 3: Really mentally, emotionally, I would have paid for that somewhere
Speaker 3: else that I'm probably not willing to pay their.
Speaker 2: Cost for that.
Speaker 1: And the aidvalanches where you do it from interest rates. Yes,
Speaker 1: so like you're paying down it makes sense. It's like
Speaker 1: the most expensive debt goes first, and it's like order
Speaker 1: it by your APRS, by whatever you're paying an interest.
Speaker 1: But some of that most expensive debt it can take
Speaker 1: longer to pay down. Right, Yes, it may not be
Speaker 1: the smallest balance, and so that can get demotivating.
Speaker 3: Is that what you're saying, Yes and the smallest balance
Speaker 3: is extremely motivating, it's encouraging, it's picking up momentum. Use
Speaker 3: sources to feel good about yourself, because we just talked
Speaker 3: about that early and dealing with debt can be isolating.
Speaker 3: You feel a lot of guilt, shame, and anxiety. So
Speaker 3: now when you finally finally have a good thing going
Speaker 3: and you're chipping away at these balances, now you're excited,
Speaker 3: you know, about doing this. You're excited to see what
Speaker 3: the end is going to look like. That's why I
Speaker 3: love that one the most.
Speaker 1: I'm going to feel excited. Yes, yes, I know, be
Speaker 1: a famous like Nandy. Tell us how much debt you
Speaker 1: actually have?
Speaker 2: Girl? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Well, let me just tell you. One thing that me
Speaker 1: and day should know is that when you get a
Speaker 1: book advance, it looks really pretty, but they don't give
Speaker 1: it to you all at once. Yeah, and then you
Speaker 1: can't work while you're writing that book. So where does
Speaker 1: that money come from? Where does that money come from?
Speaker 3: That is true?
Speaker 2: That girl?
Speaker 1: How have you been doing it while running your business
Speaker 1: at the same time, Day Show, what am I doing wrong?
Speaker 3: It's been a challenge. I'm not going to lie. It's
Speaker 3: really been a challenge because I had to dedicate eighteen
Speaker 3: months solely to my book while also still working to
Speaker 3: a certain extent and being a mom. So even just
Speaker 3: for the topic of debt, I can see how when
Speaker 3: life changes, I can see how sometimes it's easy to
Speaker 3: want to rely, you know, on credit course, or to
Speaker 3: find ourselves in spaces making decisions that we probably would
Speaker 3: not have made before. That's why I think it's so
Speaker 3: important to humanize a conversation about debt to where it
Speaker 3: doesn't define you as a person. It more than likely
Speaker 3: just defines a part of your life, but you can
Speaker 3: grow past that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. For me, it's also like it's a little bit
Speaker 1: of toxic hope, okay, because I'm not gonna lie. Over
Speaker 1: the course of my career, I've always been such a
Speaker 1: good negotiator, and I've been able to get like wind
Speaker 1: falls here and wind falls there that I may have
Speaker 1: had some bad habits of like oh, were spending over
Speaker 1: the years, but they were always there was always something
Speaker 1: that came through that was like here you go, and
Speaker 1: it's like it never happened. But in twenty twenty three,
Speaker 1: woo woo, it was so hard and it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: it's time to like put your big girl panties on.
Speaker 1: And I wonder, like even for me, I have a
Speaker 1: husband and he's looking over at me, like you got
Speaker 1: this because I usually do you know, I don't know
Speaker 1: if y'all have do y'all have partners and like or
Speaker 1: do you have any tips for people who are in relationships?
Speaker 1: And it really does take to to tango into debt
Speaker 1: and to tango out of it, and sometimes that communication
Speaker 1: is so so hard to do.
Speaker 2: I think we both have stories.
Speaker 1: Your story net well, I was girls.
Speaker 2: I was in a situation where I did not have
Speaker 2: as much help right so it I was the personalization
Speaker 2: was speaking about I've been the kind of the breadwinner
Speaker 2: in my household and right now as a single mom
Speaker 2: with two boys, it's just me. So I know you're
Speaker 2: talking about partnership, but I also include my kids. I
Speaker 2: think it's super important because mine are going to be
Speaker 2: nineteen in December and twelve. They understand what we have financially,
Speaker 2: what we don't have financially, what our goals are as
Speaker 2: a family, right because I don't want them to squander
Speaker 2: any hard work that I've done over these years. So
Speaker 2: they have a better understanding of at their age than
Speaker 2: what I did.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: So I'm a child of immigrants that came to America
Speaker 2: didn't necessarily understand the financial landscape. So I just think
Speaker 2: it's super super super important to not just talk to
Speaker 2: your partner about money and what your financial goals are.
Speaker 2: It's also like it's a whole family thing. It's understanding
Speaker 2: taking the kids shopping and understanding, well, that's not on sale.
Speaker 2: That's not on sale, so hard to see how the
Speaker 2: light for that, right, And it's like just teaching good
Speaker 2: money habits as much as possible because I think it's
Speaker 2: a whole family situation, so that you know, debt can
Speaker 2: be preventable. But it's also when there is debt, everybody
Speaker 2: understands what it is. Right, So especially you know after
Speaker 2: the holidays, don't overspend, right, Like have that real conversation
Speaker 2: like what do you love the most? Experiences? I think
Speaker 2: are the most important things versus things. So I mean
Speaker 2: there's some real hard to have.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they really are. And then when I have I
Speaker 1: have two little babies. I mean I have a four
Speaker 1: year old and a well five year old and a
Speaker 1: one year old, and the past two years it hasn't
Speaker 1: been so much about it. Well, it's all about their experiences.
Speaker 1: And you know one thing, the child early childhood entertainment
Speaker 1: industry is just booming because there's it's like all the
Speaker 1: solutions to entertain your children cost money, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. Everyone's like, well, just get a babysitter and
Speaker 1: just get you know, have them stay extra daycare and
Speaker 1: aftercare and this and that and the third. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: or go to the trampoline park on a rainy day,
Speaker 1: or go to the museum. I'm like, bro, when you're
Speaker 1: paying for a family afore that shit adds up. It's
Speaker 1: wild birthday parties, my god, do our gifts for everybody
Speaker 1: in their class like it is? Ugh? I could seriously,
Speaker 1: I could.
Speaker 2: Go on, but I don't think it's funny because they
Speaker 2: always play with the box. Instead, we did all that
Speaker 2: and let.
Speaker 1: There be some tissues in it. Like literally, my son
Speaker 1: played all day with a piece of foam that came
Speaker 1: inside of this cute little bookcase that I built for him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he didn't care for that, but the piece of foam
Speaker 1: shaped like a shield of a night. He's very into
Speaker 1: in a piece of foam that was like his little lightsaber.
Speaker 2: That's what he imagination is everything it is.
Speaker 1: It really is. But God, single motherhood. I mean I
Speaker 1: was raised by a single mom. My heart really goes
Speaker 1: out to you, Nat, And oh we were some brady
Speaker 1: kids too. I hope your kids are much more well
Speaker 1: behaved they are, Sasha, what about you partnered? Like you know,
Speaker 1: relationship finances with your kids? Like, how are you working
Speaker 1: all that?
Speaker 3: In? No, so I am divorced. I've been divorced. It's
Speaker 3: probably going on about a decade. So I'm raising my
Speaker 3: two boys by myself.
Speaker 1: You've lived so many lives.
Speaker 3: Yes, oh I have.
Speaker 2: I have so many.
Speaker 3: I have sixteen year old and twelve year olds, and
Speaker 3: it's really the same with Nat. I involve them a
Speaker 3: lot in the finances. I can say my twelve year
Speaker 3: old does not care about nothing that I say. He
Speaker 3: don't care about a budget, he don't care about a
Speaker 3: credit card paying, he does not care. Like he's at
Speaker 3: the age where it's like it's not computing to him.
Speaker 3: It's like you want say, he doesn't understand why he
Speaker 3: can't get like he's not a brad or anything, but
Speaker 3: he just can't put two and two together. He still
Speaker 3: thinks like, oh, if you swipe a card, if you
Speaker 3: have the card and you swipe it, it should work.
Speaker 3: So we're like working through like getting him to really
Speaker 3: understand how it goes. But I evolved them a lot,
Speaker 3: just like Nat in all of the financial discs decisions.
Speaker 3: It was important for me to sit them down so
Speaker 3: that they can see me pay our rent, they can
Speaker 3: see me pay our carnoes, so they can actually see
Speaker 3: what those numbers look like like. It's not as simple
Speaker 3: as just swiping a card and it's done. One of
Speaker 3: the best things that I have love navigating with them
Speaker 3: is unpaid labor in the household. I wanted to introduce
Speaker 3: my voice to that as early as possible, and we
Speaker 3: talk about that a lot, like if when you're eating
Speaker 3: someone is cooking just because you're not seeing it get
Speaker 3: done like someone is doing it. And I started that with, Hey,
Speaker 3: if you're walking past the liundry room and it's overflowing
Speaker 3: with your clothes on a Monday, and then Tuesday, all
Speaker 3: of those clothes are washed. Someone did that. So you know,
Speaker 3: I talked to them a lot about unpaid labor, how
Speaker 3: it means for us all to play a part in
Speaker 3: the household because they are older. If they were much younger,
Speaker 3: the conversation would be different. But they are older boys.
Speaker 3: So I talked to them about that a lot. But
Speaker 3: it is important to involve them in all working aspects
Speaker 3: of money, especially in the household, because they're they're boys.
Speaker 3: They're going to go out in the world. They're going
Speaker 3: to know possibly one day get married.
Speaker 1: I don't yes, I feel like I always ready.
Speaker 3: I always tell myself, like, I'm doing this for your
Speaker 3: wife from my daughter in law. That's that's like my mindset,
Speaker 3: like I want to make sure she is in the
Speaker 3: best position possible because I've done everything that I can
Speaker 3: for you while you're my care.
Speaker 1: The partners that come before, the way or the husband
Speaker 1: or whatever, your your your, your pronoun of choice. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go ahead and put this book on blast again.
Speaker 1: Boy mom, read y'all, Reimagining Boyhood in the Age of
Speaker 1: Impossible Masculinity. Library. You'll get the book back when I'm
Speaker 1: done with it. Okay, weeks since has been I don't know,
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, all right, So, Dasha, Queen of Small
Speaker 1: all steps. This is a new year, and I've heard
Speaker 1: one step, which to me is not so small, but
Speaker 1: it is a big step. It is sitting down and
Speaker 1: getting your information in one place. And that includes every
Speaker 1: credit card balance, every every bill that you have coming,
Speaker 1: every expense down on paper spreadsheet. Mint is gone. What
Speaker 1: are the girls using? Now? I have in Power. That's
Speaker 1: the app that I use too. Oh nice, formerly known
Speaker 1: as Personal Capital. Yeah yeah, what about you, Dasha.
Speaker 3: I still use a spreasheet. I am an ex sale girl,
Speaker 3: through and through asheets. Yep.
Speaker 1: I just love that you say exhale. It's such ah.
Speaker 1: The Saint Louis accent. It should be studied. It's amazing,
Speaker 1: all right, I love it. Okay, So we have our
Speaker 1: numbers down and now we are sweating, and it's like
Speaker 1: can I afford a bottle of wine because I need
Speaker 1: some wine? Or it's like get an edible, like get
Speaker 1: your little gummy. I might get a gummy from the
Speaker 1: closet and just sit down and just like kids are
Speaker 1: in bed, and just let the relaxation national debt relief.
Speaker 1: Don't shake your head, No, you don't endorse that, okay,
Speaker 1: get you in trouble, yeah yeah, just whatever it takes
Speaker 1: self soothing, all right, And then I am working on
Speaker 1: ordering them from smallest balance to highest. Now I don't
Speaker 1: have tons of patients for trimming expenses. I need what
Speaker 1: I need. You know what I mean, and I can
Speaker 1: justify anything.
Speaker 3: For me.
Speaker 1: It's always about more money. How do I get bring
Speaker 1: more in? That is the solution in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1: So looking for additional sources of income, whether that's increasing
Speaker 1: your rates if you are freelancing, asking for a raise
Speaker 1: obviously at work, quitting and getting a better offer somewhere else,
Speaker 1: as I coach women to do all of the time.
Speaker 1: But bringing in extra money is always nice. But then
Speaker 1: what are some baby steps from there? Like when it
Speaker 1: comes to just like chiseling that down are you talking about, Dasha.
Speaker 1: I've seen on Instagram you'll post these like savings challenges
Speaker 1: and it's like day one, two dollars, day three, seven,
Speaker 1: and it goes from there. What has worked? What can
Speaker 1: you see working?
Speaker 3: I see a lot when I post those says challenges.
Speaker 3: I get a lot of positive feedback because the amounts
Speaker 3: are so small that a lot of these people who
Speaker 3: use them, they don't really miss the money, and it's
Speaker 3: small and it's increasing and very small increments that they
Speaker 3: don't realize that they are taking money from their income,
Speaker 3: putting it to the side, and they don't miss it
Speaker 3: because it's so small. So I do see that that
Speaker 3: works a lot too. I see a lot of budgeting
Speaker 3: that works. I am a huge fan of zero based budgeting.
Speaker 3: It is the only budgeting method that I recommend because
Speaker 3: it gives I know it's not the only one that works,
Speaker 3: but it's the only one that I recommend because you
Speaker 3: get to give every single dollar that you bring in
Speaker 3: a job to do keeping your money busy. I'm someone
Speaker 3: who believes that my money should work just as hard
Speaker 3: as me. That I should not have any money that's
Speaker 3: sitting idle. I need to have a plan for it.
Speaker 3: And just because my money is busy doesn't mean that
Speaker 3: it's all spent. It is just meaning that it's all
Speaker 3: accounting accounting for. So if I do come across any
Speaker 3: extra money, I know that, hey, maybe I can put
Speaker 3: this towards savings. Maybe I can put this towards that.
Speaker 3: I think that that is very important. So I see
Speaker 3: a lot when I share with my audience different ways
Speaker 3: to do things that are less stressful, small increments, small amounts,
Speaker 3: Those tend to go over very well because it's less intimidating.
Speaker 1: So zero based budgeting, I do like that. That's one. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So zero based budgeting is a method that I've definitely
Speaker 1: heard of before, and that's where every dollar, even if
Speaker 1: it's like this twenty dollars is going to go to
Speaker 1: your four to one K or this twenty dollars is
Speaker 1: going to go toward your emergency savings, like it has
Speaker 1: a job. It doesn't just stay in your checking account.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that that's such a good approach
Speaker 3: because it's been so many times, especially when I first
Speaker 3: started out. I'll look at my bank account and I'll say, oh,
Speaker 3: like I got an interest two hundred dollars, and then
Speaker 3: I'll spend it. Then I'll realize, oh, I didn't pay
Speaker 3: a light bal or oh, and so now I'm stuck
Speaker 3: in a cycle of payday loans, which is exactly how
Speaker 3: I ended up in debt in the first place, because
Speaker 3: I wasn't accounting for all of the money that I
Speaker 3: was bringing in, and so I started to think, like,
Speaker 3: I'm working hard all week. I don't want my money
Speaker 3: just lost and sit in idle and waste it. I
Speaker 3: want to track every single dollar that I bring in.
Speaker 3: And that's not to micro manage, but you do want
Speaker 3: to be involved with what's happening with your money, what's
Speaker 3: coming in and out of your account.
Speaker 1: Okay, zero, I love zero based budgeting. We're going to
Speaker 1: post a link so you guys can learn more about that.
Speaker 1: Not any final tips, any final words.
Speaker 2: I think this is a great conversation. We could talk
Speaker 2: about this all day.
Speaker 1: Actually, no, I think my stress levels are high enough
Speaker 1: to do at lunch when at lunch Friday were not
Speaker 1: allowed to talk about any of this. Absolutely that don't
Speaker 1: even bring don't then.
Speaker 2: This is our time, Okay, So yeah, all I will
Speaker 2: say is is just know that having a plan is
Speaker 2: better than no plan and is never ever too late
Speaker 2: to really sit down and figure out what the goal is.
Speaker 2: I like to work backwards, so my motivation comes from
Speaker 2: I want X by X date, and then I'm going
Speaker 2: to figure out how I'm going to get there. Excuse me,
Speaker 2: come hell of high water. That is just how I
Speaker 2: look at it, right, So that big shiny thing at
Speaker 2: the end of the road that I really want the most,
Speaker 2: and it might be an experience, it's something that's true
Speaker 2: to who I am and genuine to who I am
Speaker 2: or what I want to provide for my children, and
Speaker 2: that's what keeps me like really focused on I could
Speaker 2: buy that bag, but I think I would rather my
Speaker 2: kids go to any college that they want to without
Speaker 2: a student loan, right, So, like that's one of my big, big,
Speaker 2: big things. So it's never too late to start, It's
Speaker 2: never too late to learn, it's never too late to
Speaker 2: increase your income. There are people that are getting into
Speaker 2: acting at like seventy right, So, like there are possibilities everywhere.
Speaker 2: Y'all are writing books. I'm so proud of y'all. It's
Speaker 2: like they're the possibility try. So just know that debt
Speaker 2: is one of those things. It's just another possibility that
Speaker 2: you can go around.
Speaker 1: Yeah, some of that optimism, we got it, y'all. All right,
Speaker 1: ba fam, I want to hear from y'all. Please send
Speaker 1: us an email, send us a DM on Instagram at
Speaker 1: Brand Ambition Podcast, Brandambisson Podcast at gmail dot com. I
Speaker 1: want to know how you felt about this conversation and
Speaker 1: what are some of the baby steps you were going
Speaker 1: to take to start tackling this debt because I want
Speaker 1: to do this Brand Ambition listener survey in six months
Speaker 1: and I want to see that we are handling business. Okay,
Speaker 1: we got our Olivia Pope crisis management, white hats on.
Speaker 1: Let's handle our shit, be a fam Okay, we can
Speaker 1: get out of this mess twogether. No judgment, no shame,
Speaker 1: just action. Thank you, Dasha, and thank you Nat for
Speaker 1: joining from National Debt. Really, Dasha, congrats on the book.
Speaker 1: We can't wait to get our copy and have you
Speaker 1: back on the show when it's finally out in the world.
Speaker 3: Thank you, I'm excited.
Speaker 1: Thank you both. Take care