WEBVTT - KJ Live - Ed Waters 0:00:01.280 --> 0:00:10.320 This is kJ Live with Chris john Sillis and Chris 0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:13.680 is having conversations with influencers in the sports world and 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:21.919 entertainment industry. Now here's Chris Johnson. You're now keeping k 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:27.280 J Live. Today's very special guest on this shows a 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:31.400 man I've known converting my entire life. He is a 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:34.000 big reason I'm the person I am today, the basketball 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:38.800 player and the human being. Please welcome in. Crinshaw High 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:43.839 School Varsity boys basketball head coach Ed Waters is in 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:53.480 the building. What's up? Hey, what forever? Let's go? Man. Hey, Hey, Hey, 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:57.560 I've been so glad to um have you on. People 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:01.440 don't know this, but we actually recorded pilot years ago 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:06.760 before podcasting was a bad me you Marcus, we were 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:11.679 remember that whole thing, but we recorded Hey the back 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:14.320 garage man, So we've been at this thing for a while. 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:15.679 But but I wanted to bring you on the show, 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:18.520 and because you know, I want to just talk about 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:23.319 in the beginning, just sort of how you got in 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:25.319 fell in love with the game. That's a lot of 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:27.280 the times I want to get people's respectives about the 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:30.000 foundations and the roots and why they chose this path. 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:33.560 We're a different breed basketball people. And so if you 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:35.400 could just expand on that force a little bit. What 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:38.679 started you off? Man? You know, to be quite honest 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:42.080 with you, Uh, my family moved to the West Side, 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:45.360 and the first thing I found out was that there 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:47.640 are a lot of a lot of sports going on, 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:51.560 a lot of athletes. I haven't had experienced that. And 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:53.200 we used to play. They used to play in the 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:58.720 alley over off of Vaness backboard on a garage. And 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:01.720 the problem from me us I was a left hander 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:06.360 who didn't have any skills. It's the worst combination ever. 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:12.520 No skills. Come on, no I had I had no skills. 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:17.480 It was the worst combination ever. So because I didn't 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:21.880 get picked ever, I got a basketball I went by 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:25.760 back there by myself. I was my own first personal trainer, 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:29.960 um and so uh. And as time went on and evolved, 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:34.080 I started getting picked. I become became the number one pick. 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:36.600 And when you're young like that, trying to guard a 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:40.119 left handers really really tough. People don't really figure out 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:43.560 what you can do. And so that part in terms 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:47.000 of player UH got me involved. And then I was 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:50.480 in a great vortex. I began to learn the game 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:58.079 between van as Park out of Bony Elementary and UH 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:01.920 and and Rancho Park and between those parts, this is 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:04.880 where I fell in love with the game. Who are 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:08.720 some of the contemporaries, some of your contemporaries, some of 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:10.920 the athletes that you came up with. I know, my 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:13.040 dad tells stories. I know if I think back into 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:14.520 my memory, I came up with a lot of dudes 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:16.840 that eventually, you know, made something out of themselves. On 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:19.520 the leg side. Who were some of the contemporaries that 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:22.360 you were competing against at that time? Well, you know 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:26.360 a lot of guys that I was competing against. Um 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:30.600 they were at UH coming up to Audubon Junior High 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:37.560 School on Saturday mornings. It was the greatest collection of 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:40.680 of athletes. And I mean some of your listeners may 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:42.560 and may not know a lot of the guys. But 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:46.240 the beautiful jump shot I had ever seen was Luther 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:50.720 Phil y'all who played in Loyal and he had a body, 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:54.920 he had the leg. And then you know Robert Johnson 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:58.000 who eventually played at Crenshaw and had a brother, Eddie 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:02.360 Johnson was the master of ceremonies that Autuba. He he 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:06.120 had great personnel and he had UH knew how to 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:09.119 pick the teams, and they ran the court. And for me, 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:12.600 I have to tell you, Chris that the open run 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:16.839 with guys that don't really know each other, it's the 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:21.840 greatest run today for me ever, because you're now just 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:25.440 dealing with i QS, guys guy accused names on the 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:28.360 board and guys that have accused. But at that time, 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:31.520 there weren't a lot of guys like going into the 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:35.120 n B A. Uh. Your dad was special man, uh 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:37.880 in terms of his track. But I still was around 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:40.240 a lot of great players, guys that were at fist, 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:43.719 guys who had some HBCUs before it was even popular, 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:47.560 and coming home in the summer, uh and getting and 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:50.719 getting that run. I really didn't start getting around guys 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:52.520 that were gonna end up going to the NBA and 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:55.640 two u c l A run in the summer. Your 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:58.360 dad and I would, uh, we'd have a two day workout. 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:00.640 We go to the beach and run and then go 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:04.000 straight to the gym and uh. And now we're talking 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:08.680 about Sydney, which you're talking about Grave, You're talking uh, 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:11.599 you're talking about all of it. Leon Wood, who's a 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:15.640 you know, a great ref bunch of guys like that. So, 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:19.080 you know, because of your dad, I began to get 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:22.040 connected to those type of situations and just you know, 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:25.200 build the love even more. How how has pick up 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:29.560 basketball changed from back then? Because typically I always think 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:31.880 I felt like pick up basketball was sort of a 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:34.840 microcosm how they're calling stuff or how the game is 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:38.839 played in the league. Um, back then, did you know 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:41.960 you guys call your own fouls? What score did you 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:44.359 go up to? Like? What was the sort of the 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:50.120 atmosphere pick up basketball back there? The atmosphere was that, uh, 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:54.080 guys were gonna do any and everything legal and we're 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:57.680 illegal to make sure that they didn't lose that game. Max. 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:01.839 So now you're talking about out, you're going to nine, 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:07.520 it's eight up, and everybody's calling fantom files, no foul. 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:12.280 They're not going back to the other end the eight 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:16.760 up game, which he's gonna take fifteen you know, ten 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:20.200 and fifteen minutes that that game is you know, depending 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:22.680 on who the person was, he going to twenty five 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:26.559 minutes an our guys arguing, guys just shooting the shot 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:29.800 a hand up, you fouled me, and big arguments out 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:33.160 of that. But it wasn't did he get violent at 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:35.520 all that were there fights back then? Or how did that? 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:38.040 How do how does this stuff handled? Back then? It 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:42.239 was It wasn't violent, but you had stuff like don't 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:46.200 trip if the dude who was calling the file was 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:50.120 not happy, there's one ball in the gym, he's taking 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:54.159 his ball at he's out, he's out, classic, take my 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:56.800 ball and go home, take to go home, or take 0:06:56.839 --> 0:07:01.440 my ball and sit on the sideline and watch y'all. Yeah, 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:04.240 and then and then and then you know, people would 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:07.640 dive in, you know, because the guys that were he 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:10.240 was playing against didn't want the game to end like that, 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:12.120 and the guys that were with him didn't want the 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:15.240 game then like that. There was no violence. It was 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:21.160 really generational basketball at its finess and guys like me learning, 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:23.800 you know, and uh, they used to say pick up 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:25.880 a little man, pick up a little man, and uh, 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:28.040 I had guys calling me in like that. But there's 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:31.760 no violence. Yeah, that's great, that's great to know, because, um, 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:33.720 when I was coming up, I mean, I was privy 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:35.880 to those grown man runs and stuff, and a lot 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:38.040 of times would be a lot of talking and you know, 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:41.040 sometimes you see some stuff, some get them up. But 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:44.040 you know, now and then today in today's era, you know, 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:47.920 I like kind of how things have moved away from 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.840 all that, and uh, it's become it's become really just 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:53.960 about basketball and and and pajamas and all types of 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:56.640 stuff that they wear. But but no, I digress. But 0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:01.000 um after Crenshaw. So wait, let me let me get 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:04.200 this straight. No, I want to know this because I've 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:06.840 always wondered about this. What is the origin of the 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:14.880 nickname Bosco? At the time, there was a h an 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:18.600 additive to to milk that turned it into chocolate milk, 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:24.360 and it was Bosco. But but at that time you 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:27.760 also have to know in terms of throwing shade, yeah, 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:31.560 you're dark skinned. You know. With now you know your 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:34.080 dark scared would not be hair. So it's another way 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:37.000 of saying you you real black. Wow. So that was 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:38.880 the thing back then. It was light scanned first. Dark 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:44.760 skin back then still absolutely like absolutely no, it's not 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:47.840 even a question. It was even worse. You know, as 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:51.240 the story goes, dark skinned really didn't flip to Michael 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:55.280 Jordan's Got Poplar Wow. Fact, that's kind of a real 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:58.400 real now now, all of a sudden, it was dark 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:02.680 and handsome and good look game and tall and ball headed. 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:06.440 But prior to that, your dark skin, you got nappy hair. 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:11.199 You don't have a real throw your bossco Hey, but 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:15.760 Bosco was legendary. Man. I remember your game early on, 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:18.760 and you were in stoppable, your shakes, your heasyes. I 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:21.400 mean you're doing this stuff in the seventies and I 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:25.560 mean heasy game for you floaters Euros. I mean I 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:29.400 saw all that type of stuff you early on, when 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:31.360 I'm like ten eleven, you know, I see you out 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:33.280 on the run, bro, I saw all of that. I 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:35.400 was in the building, and do not get it twisted. 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:39.000 I had some weird stuff going on, and I think 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:42.839 back to that. I got to wear my my lay 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:47.640 up package had so many high arches. I was. I 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:51.240 was announcing during games, you know, and at that time 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:54.920 Elgin Baylor was my guy, and I'm making moves and 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:57.800 I'm I'm announcing and I'm Bailor with a high arch. 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:01.480 Good uh. And so I was announcing when I was playing. 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:04.280 But yeah, I became famous for a very high art 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:08.440 layer package. You after crisch are you went to Eastern 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:12.400 Washington right, yes, and talk about your experience in college 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:15.560 playing college basketball, How what conference like what level was 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:18.240 Eastern back then and what was the what was your 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:19.760 coach like, I just want to hear about that. I 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:21.719 never talked to you about that. But first of all, 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:25.040 I want to give some flowers to my coach, Jerry Krauss, 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:29.280 who has cancer. He is going to be inducted into 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:32.200 the n C Double A Hall of Fame. Uh. He was. 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:35.960 He's a great researcher. Uh and at the time, he 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:38.760 was really kind of ahead of his time. With our package. 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:42.520 We ran a flex package. We pressed and uh, I 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:46.640 was a point guard. And two years ago, uh, they 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:51.280 took uh our team, our seventy seven team, and put 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:53.000 them in the Hall of Fame. And then they decided 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:55.599 to put me in the Hall of Fame. And congratulations, 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:59.040 congratulations brother, thank you. My assist record is no one 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:04.240 near it. The closest guy is probably four hundred assists 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:07.920 below me. And so it's just amazing that that that 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:10.560 still happens. But we're in a I A where in 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:14.320 the Evergreen Conference, and uh, you know, Central State was 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:17.360 our arrival. They're always going to the regional. I had 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:20.400 an All American on our team, Ron Cox, who ended 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:23.480 up being you know, an All American you're riding around 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:28.600 in vans all the way all over the state of California. Uh, 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:32.080 you can't hardly excuse me of Washington. You can't hardly sleep. 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:38.440 But interesting enough, the basketball swag was still going on 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:43.600 because people like Kenny Tyler red Gonzaga University, and so 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:45.600 we would go in there in the summer and have 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:48.120 these runs. And Kenny was a great guard that came 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:53.000 out of California. But it was very competitive, uh, and 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:55.480 we were always on top of the conference, either winning 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:58.360 it or in second place. And we had we had 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:02.600 an outstanding coach playing at Eastern which is what city 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:05.920 of the state of Washington, Cheney, which is about ten 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:08.520 or fifteen miles from Spokane, so it's close to Spokane. 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:10.400 But I find it really interesting just on how the 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:14.040 state of Washington Pacific Northwest the ball players that they 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:16.080 have been produced out of there in the last ten 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:19.840 to fifteen years. Some high level dudes, this Paolo Bancaro, 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:23.480 the number one pick chet home grin recently. Um, these 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:26.360 guys are from that area. Brandon Roy bring some names up, 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:28.360 and you had some ball players out there. What I 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:33.360 remember though, UM, something I remember, Uh, I always think about, UM, 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:36.400 this guy named ed Pepple and Mercer Island and just 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:38.640 and just when you because it was something about we 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:40.720 were playing them and you you were like aware, I 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:43.040 don't remember, but I just remember just that name is 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:46.840 always resonated. What is it about that area and basketball 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:49.679 man that made them, that makes produces so many good 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:53.120 basketball players and coach we we have we we have 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:56.640 something to learn in Los Angeles. And I not only 0:12:56.679 --> 0:13:01.400 look at Seattle, but I look at uh Canada and 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:05.200 then and then go to European basketball, and there is 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:10.360 a there is a cooperation from the lowest level to 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:15.400 the highest level for development uh and and and that 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:19.720 has to do also with a cooperation that's that's non 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:24.360 competitive between on the a youth circuit. You know, it's 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:27.520 not me against you, it's us trying to get these 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:30.480 guys developed and help them get to where they want 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:32.280 to go. And I think in the cases of like 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:35.960 a Seattle, I think you have that great cooperation where 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:38.520 the AU is connected to the high school, which is 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:42.520 annected to the college, to the community, and you know, 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:48.040 and then outside of that, I've always admired Canada, uh 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:50.600 and and and and what ends up happening is it 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:53.200 has to do with where is your pride at and 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:56.200 so as you know, if somebody that played overseas, they 0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:59.760 take this stuff really really seriously, no matter how big 0:13:59.880 --> 0:14:03.800 is smaller country is. But behind that is a tremendous 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:07.880 pride that carries over uh. And that's something I think 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:11.360 we can learn more from in Los Angeles. Yeah, absolutely, 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:14.280 I feel like and I've talked to a number of 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:17.040 people on this podcast about that, from Jason Hart too, 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.960 others in the game, just about the developmental process of 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:24.560 basketball in l A in California in the United States. 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:26.400 A good friend of mine is a scout for the 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:28.080 Phoenix Suns. He was on the pod, but he was 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:30.720 just talking about how the system is broken some points 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:33.520 that you just brought up about that area, just on 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:36.760 how it's us against everybody else, not us against each other. 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:40.200 When you start fighting amongst each other, beefing, having these issues, 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:42.720 you know you're never gonna be able to cooperate and 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:44.720 and that at the end of the day, the kids 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:47.000 aren't going to get the work that they need to 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:50.600 be on the same page. No, you're absolutely right, man, 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:52.680 that that is such a trip. We definitely have a 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:56.400 long way to go out here now. After Eastern, didn't 0:14:56.400 --> 0:15:00.360 you try it with the Bucks? I did. Um, I 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:03.600 was in the free agent camp and uh, it was 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:07.000 interesting because that summer, one of the great runs was 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:10.800 at Memorial Park in Santa Monica. And and so I 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:14.000 really had a lot of success up there. I walked 0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:17.480 in the gym and guys would drop guys and put 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:23.080 me on the team. We would we would get on runs. Uh. 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:25.920 If I lost, I automatically got picked up for the 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:29.320 next run. But interestingly enough, the summer before I went 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:35.560 to Milwaukee, UM, Norm Nixon, Michael Cooper, We're all playing 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:39.120 up at Memorial and uh, and I had a lot 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:43.440 of success on a particular day, and they asked your 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:47.840 dad who I was. And uh, and so in asking 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:52.720 your dad, your dad, you know, really your dad is 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:56.520 the person that that introduced me to another level of 0:15:56.520 --> 0:16:00.600 basketball people I probably would have never met. And going 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:03.000 up to U c. L A and playing I didn't 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:04.400 get to play all the time when I went up 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:06.280 to U c. L A. But I never missed going 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:10.520 and so and in this situation, uh, you know, he 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:14.320 was a course at the Bucks. I've been playing well 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:17.680 and also came out of Eastern heralded and so he 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:20.920 helped give me an opportunity. Uh. And at the time 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:25.120 Don Nelson was a coach, I was experiencing the craziest 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:29.000 thing ever with two days and not eating in between 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:30.800 the second one because I was sitting in the tub 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:33.880 and with ice have time to eat. And I had 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:36.280 to experience nothing like that. What was it? What was 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:39.320 the NBA training camp like back then? What was it like? 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:46.320 It was? The guys were guaranteed contracts, weren't They were chilling, 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:48.720 and then you had kind of these other guys and 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.880 he had some guys from colleges, some colleges, small colleges, 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:55.400 big college or whatever, and uh, but it was grueling. 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:59.520 It was unmerciful. Uh, it was grueling, and they were 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:01.760 just trying to see, you know, what you were made of. 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:07.120 We had all at Marquette University. And I remember when 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:10.680 Coach Nelson called me over, he said that called me over. 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:15.159 I ran over and he said, you know, thanks, you know, 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:18.360 thanks for coming and thanks for this. And I always 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:22.199 remember I walked out into the hallway of Marquette University 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:26.560 and I looked at the Christine Grass with you know, 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:29.159 some popes on it, and I just I settled that 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:31.840 I was okay, you know, and I didn't think that 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:33.800 I was gonna chase it, you know what I mean, 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:37.320 I was gonna chase it, I kinda And I end 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:39.680 up doing a couple of things in between that. I 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:43.240 went to Vegas when you know what's What's was now 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:46.240 the D League was that that was kind of starting 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:48.560 up then, and I went to Vegas and did some 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:50.879 stuff there and I and I did a couple of 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:54.920 things overseas, but I never really chased it because I 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:57.119 just saw what it did to a lot of guys 0:17:57.200 --> 0:18:00.600 that didn't make it. M So when you say you 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:03.480 saw what it did, is it the mental an emotional 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:07.960 level of taxing and just the let down or the 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:09.840 grind of it all? And what do you mean by 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:12.399 what you saw what it did to other guys? You know, 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:16.000 you have different levels. You have guys that actually think 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:20.000 they can't miss and everybody's telling them that, and they've 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:23.320 had certain stuff and it's like this bro, It's like, 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:26.520 I know, the college program is listening to you at 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:29.440 six seven, but when you get to when you get 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:35.520 to the NBA tryout, you're not six seven. You're six 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:40.280 four six three ish, and it's it's a different it's 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:42.679 a different level, you know what I mean. And so 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:45.359 the guys read in the stuff that they didn't know 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:48.959 they're gonna go into. And then the biggest thing is 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:53.280 that you are walking around with the skill set that 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:56.880 you can no longer use in uh, in a high 0:18:56.960 --> 0:18:59.960 level way. And that's a mind Blower's still a mind 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:03.640 glory for guys today. It's like, you got these tools, 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:07.280 you got this knowledge, but because you know, things didn't 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:10.560 go your way or you're older now and it didn't 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:13.640 and it didn't work out. And I remember Norm Nixon, 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:16.080 who uh you know, used to play for the Lakers 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:19.520 once championships. He told me, he told me I had 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:22.359 the game. He said, it's about timing. And that's another 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:25.440 part of it is, you know, timing, uh is so 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:28.879 huge when all things are considered, you know. And so 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:32.640 you have guys who you know, can't let go of 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:36.560 what didn't happen. Yeah, uh facts, because you work so 0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:39.760 hard for so long. It's something and if you're lucky 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:42.480 enough to be good at what you do, you feel 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:45.280 like you just deserve, you know, the opportunity because you 0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:47.320 see some other guys that are there and look, we're 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:49.639 not hating on anybody that makes the lead. But you 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:51.480 see other guys that you know you can bust their 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:53.679 ass or you have bust at their ass, and you know, 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:58.200 given the same opportunity, you could perform in the center 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:01.080 of the fashion. Well, let's hope clarity on that you're 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:05.840 one of those guys acts no question, a lot of asks, 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:10.080 a lot of the guys, yeah, and let them know 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:14.800 that I'm either better than you or as good as you. 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:19.200 And so it's very challenging because I actually saw your 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:22.080 development and I and I you know, I felt that 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:25.840 your NBA player, thank you, and I appreciate that Fox 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:28.959 Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:32.240 Catch all of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:35.280 com and within the I Heart Radio app search f 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:38.439 s R to listen live. You know me, for me, 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:40.520 when I look at myself and think back, you know, 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:45.359 I wasn't doing the right stuff. I wasn't doing everything 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:48.360 off the court that it takes. And I look back 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:50.399 and I have some accountability with that now, and I 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:52.119 know that because I was partying, I was living like 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:54.240 I was in the league, and I was going I 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:58.000 was going to I was going into freaking pre draft camp. Hey, 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:01.960 pre draft camp, I'm out at real night. And then 0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:05.080 they got the undercoverage at the club, telling on me 0:21:05.800 --> 0:21:09.520 every night, hanging out with me every night, dabbing me up, 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:13.119 so I know I didn't make the league. And a 0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:14.919 little bit on the defensive side back then, you know, 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:17.560 it was like they had these prototypical twos and threes 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:19.240 that you know, you had to be a certain size 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:21.679 and you had to be able to guard in a 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:23.680 certain kind of way. So always but but at the 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:26.800 end of the day, and it was definitely, uh, it 0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:29.640 was on me. Um. But back to the training camp. 0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:32.359 I remember my first training my first training camp was 0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:36.399 with the Timberwolves. During the locker, I'm in Minnesota with 0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:41.600 Steph and KG and and the legendary Sam Mitchell, who 0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:44.080 I have a Sam Mitchell. He's one of those vets. 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:45.840 He was one of those vets, dude that just rode 0:21:45.840 --> 0:21:47.760 the rookies. You know, he rode the rooks. So he 0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:50.199 was always, you know, making you do extra running in 0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:52.320 the lines. He was calling you out in front of 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:54.480 flip you know flips. You know, he's making sure to 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:57.160 point out, Oh the young fella, didn't you know. He's 0:21:57.200 --> 0:21:58.960 one of those types of dudes. So if you if 0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:01.080 you were a French guy like I was, you have 0:22:01.240 --> 0:22:04.679 no chance with a guy like Sam Metroid practice. But 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:08.920 but but but back to you, man, after walking through 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:12.160 that hallway at Marquette University, Man, it comes to that realization. 0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:15.680 Was it then you decided to coach? Because I remember 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:18.040 your career and your life kind of took a different 0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:20.639 type of journey where you kind of delved in politics 0:22:20.680 --> 0:22:24.240 a little bit. But what what what was the epiphany 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:29.960 in that Marquette hallway? It's the coaching epiphany, wasn't there? 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:32.760 And you don't know how much of appreciation that you're 0:22:32.800 --> 0:22:35.240 asking me this question because I don't get to share 0:22:35.280 --> 0:22:38.080 it a lot. But what happened was is that when 0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:43.880 I was at Eastern, we went to a medical facility 0:22:43.960 --> 0:22:48.159 of some mentally challenged kids and our job was to 0:22:48.600 --> 0:22:52.320 do kind of a mini camp there. And so we 0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:56.880 went in and we were divided up and Chris, for 0:22:56.920 --> 0:23:01.879