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Speaker 1: Let's get back to Singapore now, where the Bloomberg New

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Speaker 1: Economy Forum is underway. Our colleague Juliet Sally is there

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Speaker 1: with our next guest, Juliet absolutely, Paul, Yes, very exciting

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Speaker 1: to have with us. Our next guest, James McGregor is

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Speaker 1: APCO Worldwide Chairman Greater China. I mean, we just heard

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Speaker 1: there from Catherine tie, the US Trade representative, and this

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Speaker 1: comes on the back of the President's Biden and she

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Speaker 1: meeting too for the first time under President Biden's tenure.

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Speaker 1: How are you seeing relations between the U S and China?

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Speaker 1: Is there an off ramp here? Everybody is stretching to

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Speaker 1: try and bring a balance. We heard Kissinger this morning

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Speaker 1: who was talking about the meeting and saying that this

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Speaker 1: was he's been talking about. We're always on the precipice

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Speaker 1: of a cold war. We're in the foothills of a

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Speaker 1: cold war. He said, right now, we were at the

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Speaker 1: beginning of building a bridge, and if we don't build

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Speaker 1: that bridge, we will still be at the precipice of

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Speaker 1: a cold war. And so, um, everybody is trying to

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Speaker 1: dretch and say, um, you know, let's have civil talk.

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Speaker 1: This have civil dialogue. Um, even Catherine Tie opened up

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Speaker 1: by saying, you could see the body language between these

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Speaker 1: two leaders, the familiarity between these two leaders, that they

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Speaker 1: were frank, and how they talked to each other. Basically,

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Speaker 1: both sides need to kind of cool it off a

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Speaker 1: little bit. So, Um, it looks good. I mean they

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Speaker 1: talked for three hours. Imagine Biden talked for about two

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Speaker 1: and a half of those hours. Well, it's it's good

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Speaker 1: to say some some talk starting right and some throwing

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Speaker 1: hopefully of the tensions. What kind of confidence building measures

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Speaker 1: do you think American companies need to see from China

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Speaker 1: in the coming months? They need you know, China has

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Speaker 1: been talking about openings and we're still open and we're

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Speaker 1: still reforming and we're in this and that they need

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Speaker 1: to see action. I mean they need to. They need to.

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Speaker 1: They just don't trust what they hear from the Chinese

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Speaker 1: government now because they've been hearing it for so many

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Speaker 1: years and they're not seeing the action they need to

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Speaker 1: see that they have. You know, do I have a

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Speaker 1: residence permit or do I have a visitor's visa? You know?

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Speaker 1: Can I do business in China? Um? Just long enough

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Speaker 1: till China can learn my technology? And then tell me

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Speaker 1: to go home. I mean, that's that's what I hear

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Speaker 1: from C E O s is. UM, you know, how

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Speaker 1: long can I make money there? You know? And how

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Speaker 1: much what do I have to give up by being there?

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Speaker 1: But they know they have to be there. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of flip back to having some some some trust in

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Speaker 1: a long term relationship and some trust and long term business.

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Speaker 1: We've gone, you know, we've gone from UM just in

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Speaker 1: time on supply time to supply chains to just in

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Speaker 1: case because you know what's going to go wrong and

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Speaker 1: how do I sorted out? UM? But they want to

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Speaker 1: they want to believe in China as an opportunity again

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Speaker 1: not it is just something they can't not do. And

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Speaker 1: you still believing. I mean, it's been so tough and

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Speaker 1: we still don't have a full reopening path yet. Well

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Speaker 1: uh COVID zero covie. It is a disaster in China

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Speaker 1: and UM it needs a medical solution. They need good

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Speaker 1: vaccines and need everybody vaccinated. And that's so they they

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Speaker 1: now are showing some some moves to try to move

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Speaker 1: things ahead. But this is going to be a long

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Speaker 1: road because they got trapped. They were on top of

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Speaker 1: the world when when they could have their closed doors

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Speaker 1: and the viruses weren't coming in. But once Omnicron came

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Speaker 1: in and it was so um infectious that they ended up, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, really stuck. And now they're trying to fight

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Speaker 1: a virus by locking doors and the virus is winning

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Speaker 1: and so um if they had taken the foreign vaccines,

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Speaker 1: they'd have no problems. Well you might not have seen

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Speaker 1: the October data that just came out too, because obviously

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Speaker 1: this is really playing into the lockdown. So I just

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Speaker 1: took you through some of it. But we did see

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Speaker 1: industrial output growth slow, retail sales contracting, and retail sales

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Speaker 1: in fact contracting for the first time since Mace. So

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Speaker 1: the overall picture here, I mean, we've got this twenty

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Speaker 1: point COVID plan now a sixteen point property plan to

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Speaker 1: do we see some light at the end of the

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Speaker 1: tunnel in is it going to be this time next year? Well, um,

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Speaker 1: they You know, the economy is a mess, so worst

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Speaker 1: it's been in thirty years, and a lot of that

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Speaker 1: is is an overreach on policy. Some of this is

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Speaker 1: not natural. This is the government taking a strategic direction

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Speaker 1: to fix to clean things up. They need to be

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Speaker 1: cleaned up, but they've taken a they've taken a uh

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Speaker 1: basically a chainsaw instead of a chisel on fixing them,

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Speaker 1: and they've and they've really ramped up the economy in

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Speaker 1: a bad way. And so she now needs peace with

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Speaker 1: the US to have time to clean up that mess.

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Speaker 1: Now sort of work on China's international image, which is

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Speaker 1: public opinion polls around the world. China's got about a

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Speaker 1: positive rating, it used to be eighty. Yeah, if you

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Speaker 1: see some I guess more sort of outside help. How

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Speaker 1: how could Europe come into this, How could the ties

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Speaker 1: between Washing, Brussels and Washington get close and perhaps also

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Speaker 1: help thaw the relationship with China. Well, China's goal is

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Speaker 1: to separate Europe in the US. They do not want

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Speaker 1: to eu U s alliance um, and so they're always

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Speaker 1: gonna be trying to peel off Europe and Europe. You know,

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Speaker 1: look at the Germans and how much of their economy

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Speaker 1: is depended on China, especially the carmakers and the industrialists.

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Speaker 1: So there's always going to be that that play. But

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Speaker 1: I think China basically is going to have to figure

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Speaker 1: out policies that will incentivize people, not punish people. We've

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Speaker 1: got a question for you as well. If you could

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Speaker 1: revisit your book one Billion Customers Now, how would you

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Speaker 1: modify it to reflect the more recent realities amid COVID zero.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. You know that book was written based

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Speaker 1: on looking back at a book written in ninety four

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Speaker 1: called called four Million Customers, where describe, um, the way

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Speaker 1: people behaved and thought about things, and they were kind

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Speaker 1: of universal through the years. And I don't see those

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Speaker 1: changes in China having happened. I think we're still dealing

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Speaker 1: with the same China in behaviors and people. UM. But

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Speaker 1: the look, I've lived in China thirty years. I arrived

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Speaker 1: there a year after Tanneman and I saw the hopefulness

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Speaker 1: and the opening up, and um, China lost its confidence.

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Speaker 1: The party just became completely paranoid that everybody was out

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Speaker 1: to get them and they had to fight back. UM.

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Speaker 1: And that's where we've ended up now. Yeah, all right,

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Speaker 1: be very interesting to see what happens, particularly in three

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Speaker 1: and beyond. James, we thank you so much for your

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Speaker 1: time at the Bloomberg New Economy for him. James McGregor

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Speaker 1: is Chairman Greater China Upcote world Wide,