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Speaker 1: Now I'm Bloomberg. This budget thing is going to do nothing.

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Speaker 1: Space Force. I still think it's interesting President Trump not

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Speaker 1: playing his cards yet. Headlines Policy and Politics colliding to

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound On, The Insiders, the influencers, the inside. I

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Speaker 1: would rather see a congressional solution, pitch part of my DNA.

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Speaker 1: The Senate map in looks a lot different than it

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Speaker 1: looked in. You really have a divide within Team Trump.

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Speaker 1: The president has to do exactly what people send him

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Speaker 1: here to do, which is to get it done. This

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Speaker 1: is He's Bloomberg Sound On with Vans Why from the

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Speaker 1: Democratic presidential debate in the Alanta on Bloomberg Radio. It

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Speaker 1: touched down in Atlanta. But first we've got to get

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Speaker 1: through that Gordon Sonlin testimony, the latest on what it

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Speaker 1: means for impeachment as it relates to that bombshell testimony

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Speaker 1: earlier today on Capitol Hill. I was there, and you've

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Speaker 1: got to hear the exchanges President Trump defending himself, and

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Speaker 1: of course, a full preview of tonight's fifth Democratic presidential debate.

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Speaker 1: I'm here live in Atlanta. Wendy Benjaminson is here. Bloomberger

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Speaker 1: News Politics editor Joel Payne. Democratic strategist and Tyler Pager,

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Speaker 1: fresh off the campaign chair trail, Bloomberg News national political correspondent,

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Speaker 1: and we'll check in for an economic update with Rob

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Speaker 1: Shapiro of Sonic Con. He, of course, is a prominent

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Speaker 1: Democratic insider as it relates to matters on the economy.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna pick his brain on Medicare for all and

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Speaker 1: whether or not it's a smart policy for Senator Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: Warren to be discussing tonight. But first, Gordon Sonlon. Gordon

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Speaker 1: Sonlon testifying earlier today on Capitol Hill, and well, let's

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Speaker 1: just roll the tape. Here's what he had to say

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Speaker 1: before the House Intelligence Committee as it relates to a

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Speaker 1: quid pro quo with Ukraine. Here he is, I know

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Speaker 1: that members of this committee frequently framed these complicated issues

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Speaker 1: in the form of a simple question. Was there a

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Speaker 1: quid pro quo? As I testified previously with regard to

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Speaker 1: the requested White House call and the White House meeting?

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Speaker 1: The answer is yes. That was Gordon Sonlon, the handpicked

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Speaker 1: diplomat for all matters by President Trump as it relates

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Speaker 1: to the European Union. He went on to say that

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Speaker 1: this was something that top officials from Vice President Mike

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Speaker 1: Pence to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo to the Acting

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Speaker 1: Chief of Staff Mick mulvaney. We're all aware about. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to that State Department was fully supportive of

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Speaker 1: our engagement in Ukraine efforts and was aware that a

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Speaker 1: commitment to investigations was among the issues we were pursuing.

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Speaker 1: President Trump, for his part, pushed back and said, well,

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Speaker 1: he doesn't know what he's talking about. Here's the President

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Speaker 1: of the United States responding virtually in real time from

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Speaker 1: the White House earlier today in response to Sanlon is

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Speaker 1: not a man I know well. It seems like a

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Speaker 1: nice guy though, but I don't know him well. He

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Speaker 1: was with other candidates. He actually supported other candidates, not me.

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Speaker 1: Fam In late joining me here from Atlanta at the

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Speaker 1: Tyler Perry Studios Wendy Benjaminson, Bloomberg News politics editor, Joel Pain,

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Speaker 1: a Democratic strategist, and Tyler Pager, who is our campaign

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Speaker 1: trail reporter. Wendy, let me start with you in terms

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Speaker 1: of what your takeaway is with regards to whether or

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Speaker 1: not this morning's testimony in Washington changes the trajectory at

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Speaker 1: all and puts the President at risk for losing Republican support. Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's actually going to change the trajectory

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Speaker 1: of what will happen. I still think all House Republicans

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Speaker 1: will vote against impeachment and any effort to try him

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Speaker 1: in the Senate will fail. He'll be acquitted in the Senate.

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Speaker 1: But I do think that it certainly changed the public

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Speaker 1: perception a little bit that today's testimony was a Trump

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Speaker 1: appointing a guy who gave enough to the Trump campaign

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Speaker 1: to win the ambassadorship to the European Union of Brussels.

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Speaker 1: And he said everything he said. There was a quit

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Speaker 1: pro quote that there was an agreement that if you

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Speaker 1: if you announced an investigation into the Bidens and into

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Speaker 1: the d n C hagging, that I will give you

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Speaker 1: military aid. You know, that's such a great point, Joel. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The White House is pushing back against this. I I

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Speaker 1: played what President Trump had to say. Uh, and literally

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Speaker 1: as I was leaving long Worth the building where the

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Speaker 1: House Intelligence Committee held this hearing today, I got a

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Speaker 1: statement that was put out by the Vice President's chief

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Speaker 1: of staff who says that the meetings that Gordon Sonlon

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Speaker 1: testified under oath never happened, that the conversations never happened

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Speaker 1: between Vice President Pence UH and Gordon Sonlon as it

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Speaker 1: relates to this, as it relates to Barrissa Holdings and

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden and Hunter Biden, that those conversations never happened.

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Speaker 1: Similar statement put out by Rick Perry of the Energy Department. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think that linkage between Trump, it's Pompeo Perry. That's

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Speaker 1: the real revelation from today. Um, the fact that you

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Speaker 1: have a Trump appointee, regardless of whether the President says

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Speaker 1: he knows him. You know, so funny. We're in a

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Speaker 1: world where the President would rather tell you that he

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Speaker 1: versus acknowledging what he is testifying under oath at the

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Speaker 1: House Intelligence Committee, but that we have that person who

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Speaker 1: is a Trump insider testifying that all the things that

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Speaker 1: the whistle blower has reported and the whistle blowers complaint

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Speaker 1: is true and is accurate. Now, what makes this difficult

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Speaker 1: complicated witness because he's had to go back, I think

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Speaker 1: three times now and change his testimony. That's been provoked

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Speaker 1: by some of the other tricks three times, not once,

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Speaker 1: not twice, three times. He has modified his testimony, and candidly,

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Speaker 1: when I talked to senior aids to Republicans on Capitol

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Speaker 1: Hill this morning, they were shaking their head of thought.

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Speaker 1: They couldn't believe it that at the tables returned and there,

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Speaker 1: their story three times pretty damning. That that is pretty damning.

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Speaker 1: But I think the overall trajectory of the story here

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Speaker 1: has not changed. And I agree at Wendy's point that

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Speaker 1: probably if you entered this week dug in on Donald Trump,

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Speaker 1: You're probably still dug in. And if you entered this

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Speaker 1: week not supporting and thinking that Trump's behavior is apportant,

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Speaker 1: you probably are just as affirmed in that behavior as well.

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Speaker 1: So there's no foundational change in the support structure. But

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Speaker 1: there is a change in the public narrative, not just Sonlin,

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Speaker 1: but also the testimony of Vulcar and Morrison yesterday, and

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Speaker 1: that Joel very well may begin to change the trajectory

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Speaker 1: of Republicans votes. If Republicans in some districts that are

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Speaker 1: not super super Trump space, they may feel safe enough

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Speaker 1: to vote for impeachment Tyler page here at Tyler Perry Studios. Uh,

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Speaker 1: what has Biden world been saying with regards to to

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Speaker 1: to Hunt Biden and Joe Biden really being talked about.

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Speaker 1: I mean it was I don't know it was mentioned

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Speaker 1: more Hunter Biden or or Donald Trump at that hearing

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Speaker 1: this morning. I think they feel totally vindicated by the hearings.

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Speaker 1: They If you look at the Twitter feeds of of

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Speaker 1: Democratic of Biden campaign staffords, you will see them actively

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Speaker 1: retweeting all the statements from witnesses that say, look, hunder

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Speaker 1: Biden did nothing wrong. Joe Biden did nothing wrong. So

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Speaker 1: I think we were met with some Biden campaign officials

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Speaker 1: today and they said, look, we're going to continue to

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Speaker 1: run our race. We've put that aside. Joe Biden has

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Speaker 1: said he's done nothing wrong. Under Biden put out a statement,

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Speaker 1: and they feel confident that their story is is is bulletproof.

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Speaker 1: What about the notion of Republicans calling on Hunter Biden

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Speaker 1: feels that could happen. I don't think so. I think that, yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think Adam Schiff has kind of put that put

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Speaker 1: that that's something they're worried about. I think there's some other,

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Speaker 1: some other more pressing issues in the Democratic race that

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Speaker 1: they're about their tapes. I think I think that I see.

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Speaker 1: I think that you're gonna be hearing a lot more

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Speaker 1: about that. Coming up. We check out with the Robert Shapiro,

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Speaker 1: the Robert Shapiro who has an inside look on Medicare

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Speaker 1: for All, and that will be the talk of all

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Speaker 1: of the walks here in Atlanta as we get ready

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Speaker 1: for the fifth Democratic presidential debate. Download the Bloomberg Sound

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Speaker 1: On podcast on Apple iTunes, at Bloomberg dot com, or

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Speaker 1: by downloading the Bloomberg Business App. You can also find

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Speaker 1: me on Radio dot com, I Heart Radio, and Spotify.

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Speaker 1: I'm Kevin Cirelli, Chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg Television of

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. And you're listening to Bloomberg. You're listening to

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Speaker 1: Sound On with Kevin Cirelli, live from the Democratic presidential

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Speaker 1: debate in Atlanta on Bloomberg. I made it here to

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Speaker 1: Atlanta after covering Cord and Solid. It was an adventure

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Speaker 1: that Atlanta Airport never a dull moment in a t L.

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Speaker 1: I'm Kevin Sireli, chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg Television Bloomberg Radio,

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Speaker 1: coming at you live from inside of the Tyler Perry Studios,

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Speaker 1: not the Tyler Pager Studios. Tyler Pager is also here

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Speaker 1: off the campaign trail, taking a breather from the campaign

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Speaker 1: trail to cover Tonight's fifth Democratic presidential debate, as is

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Speaker 1: Joel Payne and Democratic strategists, and one of our many

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Speaker 1: bosses here the Wendy Benjaminson, Bloomberg News Politics editor. But

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Speaker 1: Robert Shapiro is back in Washington. Couldn't make it to

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Speaker 1: Atlanta with me, unfortunately, Robert, So you know you're here

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Speaker 1: with us. I'm so excited you're here because you know,

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Speaker 1: you've advised everyone from former President Bill Clinton, UK Prime

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Speaker 1: Minister Tony Blair, senior members of the Obama Cabinet and administration,

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Speaker 1: as well as a host of different other folks from

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Speaker 1: at the International Monetary Fund, U S, Senators and congress

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Speaker 1: people alike. And you've got this excellent piece out about

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Speaker 1: Medicare for all, and as soon as I saw it,

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Speaker 1: I reached out to you and said, you've gotta come

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Speaker 1: on for the debate show, because this is the first

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Speaker 1: debate since Senator Elizabeth Warren has put out her Medicare

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Speaker 1: for All plan. Walk us through what you're going to

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Speaker 1: be looking for from these top tier candidates tonight as

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Speaker 1: it relates to Medicare for All. Well, I think what

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Speaker 1: we're going to see is, uh, Elizabeth Warren edging further

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Speaker 1: and further away from Medicare for All, moving towards the

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Speaker 1: consensus position the you know, I saw a very recent

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Speaker 1: poll of three thousand people in Michigan, and among those

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Speaker 1: who have private group coverage, that is, who have coverage

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Speaker 1: through their jobs, um SI called their coverage either excellent

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Speaker 1: or good, and another thirty percent called it acceptable. That's

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Speaker 1: the fact is telling people that the government is going

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Speaker 1: to forbid them to continue private insurance UM is poisoned politically.

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Speaker 1: You know, Robert, I think that's a really interesting point

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Speaker 1: because just within the last forty eight hours there's been

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Speaker 1: this Obama headline. Did you see that he was talking

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Speaker 1: to PBS and he says, don't beat quote unquote to

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Speaker 1: revolutionary as a candidate. That to me, Rob, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm a straight shooter, that felt like a clear message

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Speaker 1: to Elizabeth Warren. I think the problem isn't so much

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Speaker 1: that it's revolutionary. The problem is it doesn't work. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The Medicare program today has about sixty three million people.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about adding two hundred and twenty seven billion

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Speaker 1: more people two d sion to medicare. The cost I

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Speaker 1: did another study, uh recently on the capacity of the

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Speaker 1: tax system to finance that. And so what I said was, Okay,

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Speaker 1: here's the cost of the Sanders Warren plan, according to

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Speaker 1: the Urban Institute and the Marcadas Center. Um, what would

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Speaker 1: you take if we were using the taxes we already

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Speaker 1: have to pay for it? Well, if you increased all

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Speaker 1: payroll taxes by and you increased all income taxes by

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Speaker 1: and you increased all corporate taxes by a hundred, it

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Speaker 1: would cover seventy of the cost of the Sanders Warrant plan.

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Speaker 1: So the fact is the current tax system just doesn't

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Speaker 1: have the capacity to finance it. And Robert, you're right

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Speaker 1: about this, that's very true. Also, she has begun to

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Speaker 1: back off, as you suggested at the top, back off

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Speaker 1: at least the timing of the plan. She now says

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Speaker 1: she'll do a mini Medicare for all in her first

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Speaker 1: one hundred days that would cover children under eighteen and

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Speaker 1: families who make less than fifty grand a year, and

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Speaker 1: then in three years she will begin Medicare for all,

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Speaker 1: at the point of course she would be running for

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Speaker 1: reelection or a lamed that that's such a great point that,

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Speaker 1: I mean, just to hear just what Robert says in

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Speaker 1: terms of the backing off, and then you have this

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Speaker 1: already pre debate walk back of sorts acknowledging the political

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Speaker 1: reality that Wendy has alluded to. Joel, come in here,

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Speaker 1: your democratic strategy. Just take us we heard about the

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Speaker 1: policy from rob Take us into the politics of this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll just talk about the strategy. I think the Warrant

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Speaker 1: camp somewhat overreacted. I think they took a lot of

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Speaker 1: incoming um, not just at the last debate, but in

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Speaker 1: the time period between now and the last debate on

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Speaker 1: how they can pay for the plan and whether they

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Speaker 1: can pay pay for the plan, and I think that

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Speaker 1: they felt like they needed to put this very robust

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Speaker 1: pay for out there, and I actually don't think that

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Speaker 1: that serves their best interests. I think that puts a

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Speaker 1: lot of emphasis on how much it costs, and I

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Speaker 1: don't necessarily think that's what Elizabeth Warren needs to be

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Speaker 1: talking about. She needs to be talking about vision and

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Speaker 1: about how you negotiate on healthcare, something not necessarily on

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Speaker 1: a final plan, Robert, let me switch gears here and

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Speaker 1: turning to trade policy and economics. Trade has been something

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Speaker 1: that has not necessarily come up as frequently as as

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Speaker 1: we would have us. I guess I'm I guess I'm

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Speaker 1: biased as a financial services nerd, But I mean, but

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Speaker 1: when are we gonna Are we gonna hear about trade

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Speaker 1: and tariffs? You know, I mean, there are some differences

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Speaker 1: on that front. Where where are the candidates in that regard?

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Speaker 1: Rob Well, I think we're going to hear about that,

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Speaker 1: frankly in the general election campaign within the primary conversation

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Speaker 1: of Democrats. It's a very fine line you have to

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Speaker 1: walk between the damage that these terroiffs do uh to

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Speaker 1: farmers and manufacturing workers, and we're already seeing that manufacturing

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Speaker 1: is in decline right now, um, and the defense of

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Speaker 1: the of of the our current trade agreements, which is

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Speaker 1: not popular in the Democratic Party. Tyler Patrick just walked

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Speaker 1: onto onto the studio and he's our campaign trail reporter

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Speaker 1: UH and Tyler. When you talk to farmers, what are

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Speaker 1: they saying about these terrorists? What are you hearing from them? Yes,

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Speaker 1: so I've actually spent some time in Wisconsin talking to

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Speaker 1: farmers about this issue, um, And they are hurting and

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Speaker 1: they know the at um. This is something that that

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Speaker 1: they have long said that that trade policy needs to

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Speaker 1: be renegotiated, and they think that that that the the

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Speaker 1: US has gotten the raw end of the deal there

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Speaker 1: um and and a lot of them um, however, are

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Speaker 1: still sticking by the president. Um. And one of the

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Speaker 1: things that you see in the Democratic part primary right

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Speaker 1: now is there hasn't been a whole host of robust

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Speaker 1: policy about how the Democratic candidates would do trade differently.

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Speaker 1: They will criticize Trump's approach to trade, saying something along

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Speaker 1: the lines of trade policy by tweet doesn't work, but

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Speaker 1: they have have not so far yet put out policy

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Speaker 1: that would suggest they would approach this issue vastly different

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Speaker 1: from how Trump is doing it. And I think that

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Speaker 1: that illustrates kind of the divide and in the party

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Speaker 1: about about how to deal with Trump and his They

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Speaker 1: don't like tariffs, they like the packers who are haven't

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Speaker 1: actually a pretty good year coming up Panel Stays, Robert Shapiro,

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Speaker 1: Wendy Benjamin Sai, Jolt Pay, Tyler Pager. Download The Bloombergs

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Speaker 1: Down On podcast on Apple, it tunes, at Bloomberg dot com,

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Speaker 1: or by downloading Bloomberg Business App. You can also find

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Speaker 1: us on Radio dot Com, I Heart Radio, and Spotify.

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Speaker 1: I'm Kevin Cereali, Chief Washington Course on it, FRO, Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Television of Bloomberg Radio. We're coming at you live here

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Speaker 1: from Atlanta ahead of the fifth Democratic presidential debate. You're

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Speaker 1: listening to Bloomberg. You're listening to Sound On with Kevin Curreli,

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Speaker 1: live from the Democratic presidential debate in Atlanta on Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: I'm Kevin Curreli, Chief Washington Correspondent, FRO, Bloomberg Television and

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. Breaking news headlines crossing the Bloomberg Terminal. According

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Speaker 1: to a source close to the president, the President is

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Speaker 1: expected to sign the Hong Kong Support for the Protesters

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Speaker 1: Legislation of Remember that advanced unanimously yesterday. The bill put

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Speaker 1: forth by Senator Marco Rubio, the Republican from Florida. The

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Speaker 1: legislation would make it easier for the administration to issue

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Speaker 1: sanctions against Chinese individuals and Hong Kong individuals who are

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Speaker 1: working against the Hong Kong protesters. It's also going to

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Speaker 1: show support for the Hong Kong protesters. This is breaking news,

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Speaker 1: and it's why I am incredibly grateful and lucky to

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Speaker 1: have Robert Shapiro back holding down before for us in

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Speaker 1: the Washington d C Bureau. He has advised countless presidents,

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Speaker 1: including former President Bill Clinton as well as Obama. He's

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Speaker 1: advised lawmakers and volkes on the I M F. Tony Blair.

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Speaker 1: But let's goes on and on, all right, So to

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Speaker 1: take us behind the scenes here, the President really hasn't

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Speaker 1: spoken out forcefully in favor of the Hong Kong protesters,

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Speaker 1: but well he really got backed into a corner with

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Speaker 1: this one. Well, yes and no, he's backed in a

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Speaker 1: corner kind of the the symbolism of it. But the

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Speaker 1: fact is the legislation doesn't require him to impose sanctions

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Speaker 1: on China, which he's which he certainly doesn't want to

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Speaker 1: do with this time because it will make resolving the

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Speaker 1: trade talks, which I uh all that much harder. And

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Speaker 1: that's just that that's where I want to take this

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Speaker 1: because the backdrop to all of this, and what a

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Speaker 1: quick turnaround, just in terms of the president's signaling that

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Speaker 1: he is going to sign this legislation. Likely if you

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Speaker 1: if if history is any indication, by the end of

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Speaker 1: the week would be the timetable, but ahead of the

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Speaker 1: December fift deadline. Robert Shapiro of Sonic Coon, Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: that's when the additional tariffs are set to go on

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Speaker 1: in China has said they're going to retaliate should the

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Speaker 1: President signed this, So there could be some volatility coming

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Speaker 1: to Phase one of the US China trade talks. Well,

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Speaker 1: there could be volatility coming to the whole U. S

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Speaker 1: economy if that happens. The fact is that though the

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Speaker 1: next round of terrorists would be so far reaching and

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Speaker 1: so damaging to the economy, which is already slowing down,

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Speaker 1: that it is the kind of event which can tip

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Speaker 1: a week in economy into a downturn. I'm not predicting that,

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Speaker 1: but I am say that if we have these, if

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Speaker 1: the next round of terroiffs goes through, I think we'll

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Speaker 1: be lucky to have one and a half percent growth

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Speaker 1: next year, and probably somewhat less. And just to give

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Speaker 1: some credit to my colleague Daniel Flatley, he broke this story.

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Speaker 1: He's our Bloomberg Congressional reporters specializing in national security. Robert,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for for helping us out today

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Speaker 1: and for guiding us through the policy and the politics.

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Speaker 1: Even so generous with your time. When I'm back in

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Speaker 1: d C. Let's get some sushi. We've got a lot

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Speaker 1: to catch Thank you, Thank you. I appreciate that that's

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Speaker 1: Robert Shapiro joining us here in Atlanta to to navigate

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Speaker 1: through the other big story. There's so many big stories today.

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Speaker 1: Wendy Benjaminson, Bloomberg News National politics editor, Joel Payin, Democratic strategists,

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Speaker 1: and of course the Tyler Pager, our campaign trail reporter. Wendy,

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Speaker 1: all right, back to the debate. Back to the debate,

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Speaker 1: we were talking about Hong Kong and the issue of trade.

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Speaker 1: What other polo see areas or you're gonna be looking

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Speaker 1: for tonight on the debate stage. Well, certainly, as we

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Speaker 1: discussed earlier, Medicare for all, this is where this is

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Speaker 1: a big opening for the moderates on the stage. Biden,

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Speaker 1: Buddha judge other people to to go into Elizabeth attack

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren on that that's one. Um. You know, there

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Speaker 1: are the tax issues are always you know, a perennial.

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Speaker 1: Uh you know, maybe they'll bring up climate change this time.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, Joel. You were telling me in the

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Speaker 1: break that Pete Buddha Judge, the South Bend mayor, is

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Speaker 1: a quote unquote political animal. Why athletes athletes? But sorry,

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Speaker 1: because he's running animals, absolutely political animals, completely fine with

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Speaker 1: he is he is. I call him a political athlete

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Speaker 1: because all of the kind of things that you would

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Speaker 1: expect from your politicians, public speaking, ability to kind of

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Speaker 1: win the room, ability to present on television. He is

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Speaker 1: so good at all of those things. I think that

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Speaker 1: what we're starting to see with those those poll numbers

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Speaker 1: going up in places like Iowa and New Hampshire is

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Speaker 1: the the money in the organization starting to catch up

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Speaker 1: with the popular support. Which athlete would he be? Oh boy, well,

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Speaker 1: probably a point probably a point guard because he's not

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Speaker 1: the largest man in the world. Which one, um, Maybe

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Speaker 1: Steve Nash. How about that, Steve Nash. So he's not

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Speaker 1: Alan Iverson. No, he's not the answer. Oh yeah, there's

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Speaker 1: only one answer, Uh, Tyler Pager, Pepe, he's gotta he's

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Speaker 1: gotta talk about experienced. I mean, the big story tonight

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Speaker 1: is he's going to be at the center of all

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Speaker 1: of these attacks. He is now the front runner in Iowa.

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Speaker 1: Pull up just a recent to moin register CNN pulled

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Speaker 1: the Iowa poll shows him up nine percentage percentage. Is

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Speaker 1: a huge game for him over the past few months.

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Speaker 1: And so I really think that the big storyline is

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Speaker 1: who is going to attack him and how does he

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Speaker 1: fare with with that incoming. We saw with Elizabeth Warren

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Speaker 1: in the last to page she kind of stumbled a

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Speaker 1: little bit in certain areas when she was the main

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Speaker 1: the main not to defend Elizabeth Ward or any of

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Speaker 1: the candidates, but that debate was like three hours long.

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Speaker 1: I mean, how do you keep composed when you can

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Speaker 1: speak and making light of it? But well, but we're

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Speaker 1: asking these people to be commander in chief and leader

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Speaker 1: of the three Yes, exactly, and so yes, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: have to be able to stand there for three hours

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Speaker 1: and defend your positions. I agree with Tyler that that

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Speaker 1: it is Pete Buddha judges Night to make something of

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Speaker 1: the momentum he has. The trouble is then he leaves

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Speaker 1: here and all of his momentum is in Iowa and

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Speaker 1: a little bit in New Hampshire. You know, the other

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Speaker 1: early states are not at the moment great Buddha territory.

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Speaker 1: Let me also throw another name out there for us

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Speaker 1: to watch is Amy Klobachar agreed. And here's why her numbers.

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Speaker 1: You know, the Buddha Judge Boom has been the one

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Speaker 1: that's been covered, but it's really Kloba Char. If you

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Speaker 1: look at her numbers in Iowa, New Hampshire, nationally, she's

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Speaker 1: really seen like a search. I mean, she was in

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Speaker 1: the land of the one percenter. She's now in the

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Speaker 1: high one percent, and she's kind of in a position.

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Speaker 1: But that's are to get. That's a significant amount of

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Speaker 1: growth for candidates with the amount of money she's got,

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Speaker 1: her war chest and her national profile. And I think

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Speaker 1: that her as kind of the the scion of the Midwest,

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Speaker 1: so to speak. I think she's got a really interesting

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Speaker 1: place in this field. Also, it is directly correlated to

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Speaker 1: how Joe Biden is doing, and as Biden continues a

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Speaker 1: perceived or real fall, Clobach his position of strikes. I

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Speaker 1: spoke to Senator Chris Coons, a Democrat from Delaware, who

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Speaker 1: you know is one of his top starter gets for

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Speaker 1: Biden World. Earlier today on Capitol Hill before I got

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Speaker 1: here to Atlanta. Uh and and he said that that

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Speaker 1: they're fully prepared for Nevada, for all of the Midwestern primaries.

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Speaker 1: I mean they they want to take this thing as

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Speaker 1: long as it will go. Other names Andrew Yang, Tyler

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Speaker 1: Patriot Andrew Yang and Tulsi Gabert. What are we gonna

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Speaker 1: hear from them? I mean, those are the two wild

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Speaker 1: cards on the debate stage. I don't I Andrew Yang

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Speaker 1: has staying power. I think he raised ten million dollars

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Speaker 1: in the last quarter UM out raising a lot of

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Speaker 1: senators in the race, established politicians. He has a core

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Speaker 1: group of supporters. I don't see a big, big launch

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Speaker 1: for him. I think he's going to stay around for

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Speaker 1: a long a little while. He's close to qualifying for

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Speaker 1: the next debate. UM, so it depends does he go

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Speaker 1: on the offensive. He hasn't really done so yet. UM

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Speaker 1: And Tolzi Gabbert, I think is kind of in the

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Speaker 1: same boat. Biden's numbers are also really stubborn, and and

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Speaker 1: it doesn't fit the narrative that I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of kind of the chattering class and DC who started

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Speaker 1: to give up on Biden a bit. But his numbers

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00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,400
Speaker 1: are really stubborn in places like South Carolina, in New Hampshire,

431
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 1: in Iowa and nationally and in Nevada. So recent Nevada

432
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 1: pole that had him up five to six. I think

433
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 1: Joe Biden, you know, he's probably not he's probably not

434
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 1: the people's champion of Democrats right now, but his numbers

435
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,239
Speaker 1: are really really stubborn, That's the word I'll use. And

436
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: I think that people really do think that, or they

437
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 1: know him well enough to know that, you know, there's

438
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 1: a possibility he could defeat Trump. And we know everything

439
00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: there is to know about Joe Biden, and now we

440
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: needn't know everything there is to know about his kid.

441
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 1: And um, you know, his numbers have really stayed pretty

442
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 1: solid in the front Nationally. He's not doing well in

443
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 1: Iowa as as Tyler has reported. Um he is, uh,

444
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,400
Speaker 1: you know, struggling in some other places. But man, South

445
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: Carolina loves him and Nevada loves him. I mean, you

446
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: cannot win the Democratic primary, you cannot be the Democratic

447
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 1: comedy without the support of black voters. They are crucial

448
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: constituency in this Democratic party and so far the only

449
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: person that is really doing well with with with those

450
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 1: voters is Joe Piden. And if you if if other

451
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 1: candidates cannot make in roads with that, with that voting block,

452
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 1: it's going to be really difficult for them to get

453
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 1: the nomination. That's true that we talked to a guy yesterday,

454
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: Johnny Cordero, down South Carolina. Who's I think with the

455
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 1: South Carolina Democratic Black Caucus. Johnny Cordero, Yeah, and he

456
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 1: said that Biden support comes from the older Black church goers,

457
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,640
Speaker 1: but the millennials and the younger voters might be looking

458
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 1: at someone else, But the reliable voters are those older

459
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 1: Black churchgoers. But I always have said this, I don't

460
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 1: like when when any of us, not not not anyone here,

461
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 1: but when anyone in the political world groups every Christian

462
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: is like one monolithic voting block. There's a lot of

463
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 1: different type of Christians all over all over the world.

464
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: All right enough at the gospel according to keV, I

465
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 1: agree with that, Kevin, But can I just adds as

466
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: an African American, I normally would be the first person

467
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: trumpeting net. The numbers do suggest though that African American

468
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: voters in South Carolina are behaving as one vote. I

469
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 1: think they have a network and and and I would

470
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 1: I would argue that that that's that that's totally true.

471
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: And then but I guess my my assessment is based

472
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 1: more on the Christian evangelical right conservative movement because there's

473
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: a ton of different monel blocks there. All Right, coming

474
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 1: off what's on the panel's radar as it relates to

475
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: the debate, talk about a busy news that Hong Kong,

476
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 1: Gordon Songlan Democratic presidential debate, did I cover at all?

477
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: Wendy Benjamin's and Joel Payne, Tyler Pager. Download the Boomborg

478
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,199
Speaker 1: Sound On podcast on Apple iTunes, at Bloomberg dot com,

479
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 1: or by downloading the Bloomberg Business app. You can also

480
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 1: find us on Radio dot com, I Heart Radio, and Spotify.

481
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,919
Speaker 1: I'm Kevin's really again Bloomberg exclusively reporting on the Bloomberg terminal.

482
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 1: President Trump expected to sign into law that Hong Kong

483
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 1: support bill for those protesters. You're listening to Bloomberg. You're

484
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 1: listening to Sound On with Kevin Sireli live from the

485
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: Democratic presidential debate in Atlanta on Bloomberg. I'm Kevin, I'm

486
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 1: Kevin si Reli Chief Washington correspondent from Bloomberg Television and

487
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. Last night, I was at the Bipartisan Policy

488
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: Centers first inaugural Thanksgiving feast, and there was a host

489
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: of different lawmakers. They're both parties, and they say that

490
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 1: that Thanksgiving can be a time where you don't have

491
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: to talk about politics. They have this whole menu of

492
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 1: conversation starters on how to avoid talking about controversial political topics.

493
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: I just tell people as soon as they walk in

494
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: the front door, no politics. She needs no introduction. When

495
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 1: the Benjamin's Bloomberg Politics editor Joe Paine here, Democratic strategist

496
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 1: and campaign trail reporter Tyler Perry for Bloomberg our Tyler Pager,

497
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: I did it again. We are at the Tyler Perry

498
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: Studios in Atlanta with Tyler Pager. Say that three times fast. Wendy. Alright,

499
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: so we've got the fifth Democratic presidential debate. See, but

500
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 1: you and I differentiate, just to pick up on this

501
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving thing. And I where I grew up outside of

502
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 1: Philly and del Go, all we did was talk politics.

503
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: It's why I am where I am today. For better

504
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:33,199
Speaker 1: or worse, Wendy and you share drumsticks. We do. We

505
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: always debated politics in our house, and I come from

506
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 1: a politically diverse family. Okay, so we've got uh, we're here.

507
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: We are with this debate. I am going to put

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00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: a democratic debate spin on my favorite segment, which is

509
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: what is on your radar? So be thinking of this debate,

510
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: be thinking of the race, and take us into something

511
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: beyond just medicare beyond just these broader policies, but but

512
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 1: really take us behind the scenes. I will start with

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00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: Joel Payne. Are democratic strategists? Go ahead. I think it's

514
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: the fate of the Kamala Harris campaign really, which look,

515
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: there's been reporting about some internal strife, which generally happens

516
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: when you go from to three percent in three months. UM.

517
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: While they are plenty well funded, UM. I think that

518
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: there is a directionlessness about the campaign that's been reported on,

519
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: and that the candidate while promising, and it's a type

520
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: of candidate that like if you're building a candidate in

521
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: a lab, it's Kamala Harris in today's environment, but she

522
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: hasn't connected and she hasn't kind of made the you

523
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: know what, I think it's maybe a matter of strategy.

524
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: If I was her campaign, I'd really focus her in

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00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 1: South Carolina. I would maybe spend less time in Iowa,

526
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: New Hampshire. I think about California banking votes, I think

527
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: about Nevada. I don't know if she plays to all

528
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: of these early primary states. But regardless, there's no strategy

529
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: that is is communicated publicly, and that's a problem. Do

530
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: you think the Biden campaign would ever forgive her for

531
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: that first debate? I I don't get the sense that

532
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 1: it was an unforgivable Senate did. However, it's interesting, similar

533
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: to Rubio and Christie and how four years ago Christie

534
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 1: kind of exposed Rubio, that kind of exposed Joe Biden.

535
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: So wow, it didn't benefit her, it did the work

536
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: of Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders and Pete Buddha Judge

537
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: because she really demonstrated that Joe Biden was a weak

538
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: front runner at that time. Tyler Patrion, Tyler Perry studio

539
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: is what's on your radar. It's page. It's whether or

540
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: not he can hold this lead and and how he

541
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 1: does as a front runner. I mean, he's he had

542
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: a rise earlier this year, then it kind of faded

543
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: away and now he's back and has a commanding lead

544
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: in Iowa, doing well in New Hampshire, and it's really

545
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: can he withstand the barrage of criticism and attacks that

546
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: he's going to get. We've seen candidates and their allies

547
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: foreshadowing the type of attack lines we're going to start

548
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: to see and and I'm really interested to see how

549
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 1: he performs and with that, does he make any inroads

550
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: with black voters? I don't necessarily see a path to

551
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: the nomination um if if he doesn't um, and so

552
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 1: that that's Those are the two big questions. What did

553
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: he do and what was the incident that really stunts

554
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: at his growth and making inroads with the African American community.

555
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: I don't think he's never made in roads with the

556
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: African American community, So it's not one incident. I think

557
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: there have been opportunities and there's been some missteps by

558
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: the campaign. In the most recent South Carolina poll, he's

559
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: at less than one percent with black voters. However, the

560
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: number that the campaign would point to is that there's

561
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: a high percentage of voters that don't know him, and

562
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: so that they think there's an opportunity to introduce it.

563
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: There's also an opportunity for his opponent instead of find

564
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: I don't think he's disqualified himself with Black voters. I

565
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: think Black voters are acting very pragmatically. I think they

566
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: want to see how Buddha Judge does in Iowa and

567
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: New Hampshire. We've seen that before with people like Barack Obama.

568
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 1: So I don't think there has been a disqualifying event.

569
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: I think there have been some discouraging events, but I

570
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: think he's still got a window into black support if

571
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: he can develop that over the course of the early

572
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 1: proms in economic centric So it'll be interesting to see

573
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: how this place. Wendy, what's on your radar? I would

574
00:31:58,040 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: like to see Joe Biden live up to his poll

575
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: num burst. I would I mean, I have seen speeches

576
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: that Joe Biden has made that people are on their feet,

577
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: they are cheering, they are they love him. He's warm,

578
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: he's friendly, and he he needs to get up there

579
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: and command the stage. And I don't know if I

580
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: have yet to see him really do that. He's come

581
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: close a couple of times. He's had okay performances, but

582
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: if he is the national front runner, he ought to

583
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: command the stage. Okay, what's all my radar, Marian Williamson

584
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: just kidding, but she did tweet out today that America

585
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: needs a mother in the White House. But Maria Williamson

586
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: is not on the stage to night. But I you know,

587
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: keep up on the socials. Uh. Bernie Sanders, someone we

588
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: didn't talk a lot about. Bernie Sanders is on my

589
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: radar to night. Uh. He is consistently a top tier candidate.

590
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 1: He has completely mobilized millennials, the younger generation of millennials.

591
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: As it relates to college students, He's the college campus

592
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 1: candidate and go out tither quick. Yeah. I heard from

593
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: my io sources this week that there's a lot of

594
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: energy and excitement from voters and from the Bernie Sanders

595
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: campaign about his chances there. They feel good there and

596
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: and he's really you know, in terms of drawing a

597
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: contrasts as a candidate of change. When Obama in the

598
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: same week is saying don't be too revolutionary, that plays

599
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: right into Bernie Sanders wanting that he's reading the political

600
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: tea leaves very differently than a lot of these other

601
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: candidates are. Elizabeth Warren, we should also note just picked

602
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: up earlier today. Uh, a prominent progressive activist Addie Barkhon,

603
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: who endorsed Senator Warren's campaign. This is a prominent voice

604
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,719
Speaker 1: in the left wing circles. Uh. Definitely a surrogate that

605
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: Sanders would have liked. I want to thank everybody, Robert Shapiro,

606
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: Wendy Benjamin's and Joel Paine, Tyler Pager. This was such

607
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: a treat we covered it all. Thank you very much

608
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 1: for helping me do it. We're here in Atlanta bringing

609
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: you the latest of the fifth Democratic presidential debate. I'm

610
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: Kevin Cirelli, Chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg Television and Bloomberg Radio,

611
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: and you're listening to Bloomberg