Speaker 1: Episode four eighty nine, Higher Needs, what they cost us,
Speaker 1: and what to do instead.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to
Speaker 2: save money, embrace simplicity, and live a life here your
Speaker 2: hosts Jen and Jill.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen,
Speaker 1: my name is Jill, and today we're doing something very
Speaker 1: fun and very different. Back in December of twenty twenty four,
Speaker 1: a lifetime ago, Jill and I got the chance to
Speaker 1: speak at Nerd Night Saint Pete about our book, but
Speaker 1: mostly what we talked about was Maslow's hierarchy of needs
Speaker 1: and how ignoring our higher needs on that hierarchy causes
Speaker 1: us to spend unplanned impulsively, and it really deteriorates the
Speaker 1: power we have with money by not recognizing these higher needs.
Speaker 3: So we decided to share that talk with you all,
Speaker 3: which is very out of the norm, because you will
Speaker 3: hear the audience throughout the talk.
Speaker 1: All the hecklers yup.
Speaker 3: You'll hear some cheering, you'll hear some answers, and we
Speaker 3: hope that you feel like you are a part of
Speaker 3: the crowd. It was a very supportive, engaged crowd, which
Speaker 3: we imagine you all to be wherever you're listening to us,
Speaker 3: so you can feel like you're a part of a
Speaker 3: group while you're engaging with this. So that'll be the
Speaker 3: first part of this episode is really just sharing that
Speaker 3: and how we move through the ways in which you
Speaker 3: might spend on your higher needs, and again the choices
Speaker 3: that you can make instead.
Speaker 1: Yes, but first, this very special episode is brought to
Speaker 1: you by your March budget. Have you made it yet?
Speaker 1: It's only the twenty eighth, but it is the last
Speaker 1: day of this month. I know it's come quickly. You
Speaker 1: just made February's budget or spending plan, and now it's
Speaker 1: time to look at March and hopefully you already have
Speaker 1: something kind of skeletal put together, so it's not going
Speaker 1: to be much work. But there are some things to
Speaker 1: be saving for in March that sometimes we forget. I
Speaker 1: think the biggest one for me is summer camps. It's
Speaker 1: already time to book summer camps. Maybe it's already too
Speaker 1: late for some which I never realized until I start
Speaker 1: looking at them. So anything that you want to do
Speaker 1: for summer now is the time really to be starting
Speaker 1: to put money away for so that you're not putting
Speaker 1: it on a credit card and then paying it off
Speaker 1: with interest later. Instead, get that interest for yourself by
Speaker 1: putting your savings into a high yield savings account. It's flexible.
Speaker 1: You don't have to wait like a CD to pull
Speaker 1: it out. You can pull it out in the summer
Speaker 1: when you need it. And our current favorite one is CIT.
Speaker 1: So head to Frugal friendspodcast dot com slash CIT. You're
Speaker 1: gonna see apy over four percent no hoops to jump
Speaker 1: through to get that, and we really enjoy it. So
Speaker 1: again Frugal friendspodcast dot com slash CIT and start saving
Speaker 1: for summer now and get that free money. Yes. So,
Speaker 1: a couple episodes that would be really good to queue
Speaker 1: up after this one would be episode two twenty three
Speaker 1: how to Design and Afford your Dream Life and episode
Speaker 1: two twenty how to Buy Happiness. That was I have
Speaker 1: a friend who doesn't listen to the show and decided
Speaker 1: to just listen to that one episode. That was the
Speaker 1: only episode he listened to. Uh huh, and he like
Speaker 1: still references it. He liked it so much, yet didn't
Speaker 1: not listen to any other else, no other context, just
Speaker 1: this one. He's like, that was enough for me. I
Speaker 1: loved it. I got the whole thing. My life changed.
Speaker 1: I understand your whole shtick. So uh, those are some
Speaker 1: really good ones. But yeah, I'm very excited to share
Speaker 1: this talk with you. It was so fun and I
Speaker 1: hope you feel like you were with us in that evening.
Speaker 3: Yes, well let's get into it. I will say we
Speaker 3: start off polling the audience. You're gonna hear us asking
Speaker 3: questions and answer them for yourselves too, whether in your
Speaker 3: head or allowed. Whatever you want. But that's where we're
Speaker 3: kicking it off, and we'll see you back soon to enjoy.
Speaker 3: We're gonna start off with a pole here, so show
Speaker 3: up hands. Who here has ever walked out of a
Speaker 3: store having bought more than what was on the list
Speaker 3: or just you never even catalysts?
Speaker 1: Yeah, zero things on the list, many things in the
Speaker 1: How about bought some gadget appliance clothing item just because
Speaker 1: a friend recommended it? Well, you gotta get a recommendation.
Speaker 1: I mean saying our arms are going to stay up.
Speaker 1: That was like, have you ever made a purchase through
Speaker 1: an Instagram ad? Yeah, we'll see, Yes, you're something from
Speaker 1: seeing it on Instagram and nobody got paid to promote it.
Speaker 1: You just bought it. Have you ever overspent on brunch
Speaker 1: with friends? Yeah, that'll git cha. Even if you budgeted twenty,
Speaker 1: it's like one hundred and fifty, you but it zero
Speaker 1: and then you ended up there benefits. So we're going
Speaker 1: to talk about that. It's apparently we're all in the
Speaker 1: same boat.
Speaker 2: Who we are.
Speaker 1: We're Jen and Jill podcast co hosts and co authors
Speaker 1: of Buy What You Love Without Going Broke. So it's
Speaker 1: a new book. It releases January seventh. It's coming up
Speaker 1: so soon fast. Nice.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 1: So we started Frugal Friends because we were really passionate
Speaker 1: about helping people save money, and this has evolved into
Speaker 1: helping people figure out what to spend money on because
Speaker 1: who was ever taught how to spend money? We were
Speaker 1: basically just told, if you spend money, you're irresponsible with money,
Speaker 1: and if you save it all that means you're good
Speaker 1: with money. But I love to spend money, and so
Speaker 1: we have made it our mission to find the radical
Speaker 1: middle between spending all your money and saving all your
Speaker 1: money and find that really good sweet spot. And so
Speaker 1: that is what our book is about, and that's kind
Speaker 1: of what we're talking about. Tonight. Yeah, some of this
Speaker 1: is in the book. So here we go. Really beautiful triangle.
Speaker 1: One of our favorite shapes Maslow's hierarchy of needs. So
Speaker 1: this was developed by Abraham Maslow. He was an American psychologist,
Speaker 1: and it's representative of all of our needs. So at
Speaker 1: the bottom, we've got basic needs. This includes our physiological needs, food, water, shelter.
Speaker 1: Above that comes our safety needs, our need for security
Speaker 1: and stability, and then above that come your belonging and
Speaker 1: love needs. I did look this up. Belonging this is
Speaker 1: a word. I didn't think it was that electics. I'm like,
Speaker 1: all right, it's correct. I know you all are going
Speaker 1: to fact check us. So because your intimate relationships, your friendships,
Speaker 1: we all have this need for community. Following that is
Speaker 1: our escene needs. This is the need to feel accomplished
Speaker 1: in life, have some degree of prestige, field confidence inside
Speaker 1: of ourselves. And at the tippie pup of this triangle
Speaker 1: is self actualization. Now this isn't reaching some level of nirvana.
Speaker 1: This isn't, you know, transcendence. This is representative of us
Speaker 1: feeling like we're living into our full potential. It even
Speaker 1: includes spontaneity, having a need to be spontaneous. What we
Speaker 1: have found in the personal finance space is that so
Speaker 1: often experts stop here at the basic needs. You got
Speaker 1: your food, clothing, shelter, all of that, get it covered,
Speaker 1: and beyond that it's just a want and you shouldn't
Speaker 1: send on it. But Maslow's hierarchy tells us something different,
Speaker 1: that we have more needs beyond these bottom couple of levels,
Speaker 1: and we will send to achieve them. So of course
Speaker 1: we've got to spend on the food, water, warmth, and
Speaker 1: rest needs, but even subconsciously, without even knowing it, we
Speaker 1: will also send to achieve some of these higher level needs,
Speaker 1: which we will get into. Yeah, when we don't value
Speaker 1: these higher needs to the extent that they need to
Speaker 1: be valued, we still spend on it. There's a difference
Speaker 1: in the lower levels. There's a difference between being hungry
Speaker 1: and not knowing where your next meal is coming from. Right,
Speaker 1: So if we don't know where our next meal is
Speaker 1: coming from, obviously we can't focus on these higher needs.
Speaker 1: But if I'm working on a passion project that I'm
Speaker 1: really loving, I can be hungry and forego food for
Speaker 1: hours to work on this project that makes me feel creative.
Speaker 1: And innovative and like I'm living into my full self.
Speaker 1: And so this is how we spend on these higher
Speaker 1: needs without knowing it. So we have some stories for
Speaker 1: you if you're like, how I don't really feel like
Speaker 1: I'm spending on esteem, right, So we have a couple
Speaker 1: stories for you from each of these higher needs that
Speaker 1: just demonstrate how we spend on higher needs even if
Speaker 1: we're not specifically spending on the need. And they're silly,
Speaker 1: and they do come from Reddit, because where else do
Speaker 1: you turn to when you're hearing it? How are people
Speaker 1: sending on belonging needs and love needs? Here you go? So, yes,
Speaker 1: what are the things that we spend on when we're
Speaker 1: trying to impress somebody that we like and could potentially
Speaker 1: love to meet that need? Well, this person, when I
Speaker 1: was eleven, I gave a girl I liked my holographic charizard.
Speaker 1: She gave it to a voice she liked. I snapped
Speaker 1: inside sad. Another person said, I once made fifteen pounds
Speaker 1: of chocolate chip cookies from scratch. This was all to
Speaker 1: receive love and affection. That's a lot lot. It's a
Speaker 1: lot of cookies. I'm sure i'd be sad about that.
Speaker 1: But I paid the extra two dollars and fifty cents
Speaker 1: for stuffed crust from Dominos. We're not saying that it's
Speaker 1: as bad dispression. It's just buying. But sometimes sometimes you
Speaker 1: got a flex. Sometimes you got a flex to be loved. Okay,
Speaker 1: But how might we then spend on our esteem? Here's
Speaker 1: some examples. Well, on a trip in our twenty thirteen
Speaker 1: BMW X Street, it suddenly popped up a check engine. No,
Speaker 1: I said, just called BMW support and they said to
Speaker 1: continue driving. Little did anyone know. When we were just
Speaker 1: miles away from our hotel, the BMW started catastrophically breaking
Speaker 1: down into a spiral of warning lights like it was
Speaker 1: Christmas in April. Wah wah. The BMW could not get
Speaker 1: you there. I just like that because when we're spending
Speaker 1: on esteem, we're not specifically spending and saying, oh, this
Speaker 1: will raise my self esteem, this will raise my self confidence.
Speaker 1: What we're doing is we're feeling a lack of self
Speaker 1: esteem and we're spending out of black. So we're spending
Speaker 1: out of lack of self confidence, lack of feeling like
Speaker 1: we're being respected by people in our lives. And so
Speaker 1: what comes from that is, we're spending a lot of
Speaker 1: money on skincare routines, makeup fitness products, luxury cars that
Speaker 1: don't work. But we can't afford the new luxury cars.
Speaker 1: But we still need a luxury car to be respected,
Speaker 1: So we're getting the oldie and it's lighting up like
Speaker 1: a Christmas tree. Another thing we'll do is hobbies. We'll
Speaker 1: send to start hobbies because if I'm doing this hobby,
Speaker 1: then I'll feel more creative, I'll feel better about myself,
Speaker 1: and sometimes that might be running right lifting, And then
Speaker 1: you buy all this what we call procrast is spending
Speaker 1: instead of starting the hobby. You buy all the things
Speaker 1: for the hobby, like the nice running shoes, and then
Speaker 1: you never use them and they end up on posh
Speaker 1: market a discount. Gotta we sell them. I really hope
Speaker 1: that phone. They did ninety sell them, two thousand sold
Speaker 1: these shoes. Okay, but how might we send on self actualization?
Speaker 1: Here's an example again for Reddit. It was Saturday night
Speaker 1: and I had no plans. I ran into my old roommate.
Speaker 3: He was wearing giant minotaur horns and convince me to
Speaker 3: come with him to a fairy tale themed rave at
Speaker 3: some warehouse.
Speaker 1: Quickly ran to the Halloween store, bought some wings and
Speaker 1: some face paint obviously, and headed toward the venue. Besides that,
Speaker 1: being the best party of the year, I must have
Speaker 1: been stopped for photos about twenty times. I even got
Speaker 1: a free slice of pizza for making the guy at
Speaker 1: the pizza you laugh. Wow, Satinet money well sent in
Speaker 1: my opinion, not bad right, free slice of pizza Naga
Speaker 1: all right? For this story, it was a rough week
Speaker 1: at work, so I went around and collected two dollars
Speaker 1: from my co workers for a surprise. I called a
Speaker 1: meeting and when everyone showed up, they were greeted by
Speaker 1: a mountain of golden brown French fries and then lastnings
Speaker 1: to that person. So one of the for self actualization,
Speaker 1: we really do think of it as like this transcendence
Speaker 1: living in your passion, working for some philanthropical company or
Speaker 1: whatever that is. But it is truly just feeling like
Speaker 1: you are living your true self, your full self, that
Speaker 1: you're able to act on your own desires independently, that
Speaker 1: you're able to be creative, you're able to buy your
Speaker 1: coworkers amount of fries on your own or with everybody
Speaker 1: else's money. Here's the issue, though, So we do have
Speaker 1: these internal needs and Maslow's hierarchy of needs kind of
Speaker 1: tells us that, and they all matter. While we should
Speaker 1: be focusing on definitely achieving the bottom level, we also
Speaker 1: need to be valuing some of the higher level needs.
Speaker 1: But what also happens is marketers are aware of all
Speaker 1: of our needs and they will play and pray upon
Speaker 1: these needs to sell us something. We are so conditioned
Speaker 1: to buy our way out of problems, to purchase the
Speaker 1: solutions to problems we do send to solve. We've been
Speaker 1: socialized in this way. We send to meet our needs,
Speaker 1: and marketers will take a vanished And here's how it's
Speaker 1: not all our fault. It's not. Since the late eighteen hundreds,
Speaker 1: since the Industrial Revolution, when it became much more affordable
Speaker 1: to manufacture large quantities of things, we have been conditioned
Speaker 1: to buy larger quantities of things. So the Industrial Revolution
Speaker 1: happened late eighteen hundreds. Around the nineteen twenties, we meet
Speaker 1: this man with this weird mustache. His name is Edward Burnet's.
Speaker 1: Has anybody ever heard of Edward Burnets? Oh? Heck, people, guy,
Speaker 1: my guy. For those of you who haven't heard of
Speaker 1: Edward Burnet's Has anybody heard of Sigmund Freud? Edward Barnes
Speaker 1: is Sigmund Freud's nephew, so he used much of Sigmund
Speaker 1: Freud's work on psychology to use it in marketing. My
Speaker 1: favorite fact about him Burnees is that he was he's
Speaker 1: considered the father of pr public relations. Originally he was
Speaker 1: the father of propaganda, but he saw that that was
Speaker 1: headed in a bad direction, so he prd himself and
Speaker 1: spun it to be the father of public relations. But
Speaker 1: since the nineteen twenties he has been. When he was alive,
Speaker 1: he was hired by companies to increase desire for products
Speaker 1: because there were so many products, and marketing at that
Speaker 1: time was pretty much just for awareness, and what Burns
Speaker 1: did was along with awareness, he began the practice of
Speaker 1: not just manufacturing products, but manufacturing desire. So even if
Speaker 1: before you knew about the product, you didn't know you
Speaker 1: had the problem, He's going to tell you you have
Speaker 1: a problem and this product is a solution. Take cigarettes,
Speaker 1: for example, in the nineteen twenties, women did not smoke cigarettes,
Speaker 1: but they were a huge part of the population that
Speaker 1: the cigarette companies wanted to get smoking So what Brene
Speaker 1: did was he capitalized on the suffrage movement that was
Speaker 1: in bold and had just gotten women the right to vote.
Speaker 1: And he said, you've just gotten this little piece of
Speaker 1: equality if you want more than to do what the
Speaker 1: men do and smoke. And so he positioned cigarettes as
Speaker 1: literally torches of freedom, that's what he referred to them
Speaker 1: as in marketing. Hired women to march in the Eastern
Speaker 1: Parade in New York City smoking these torches in freedom
Speaker 1: to make it acceptable in public, and it got women smoking.
Speaker 1: And so when we are able to mass produce products
Speaker 1: at a cheaper price and the demand isn't there, what
Speaker 1: to be done? We manufactured demand, We manufactured desire, which
Speaker 1: is how we got to this picture here, which is
Speaker 1: actually a crazy hot Buys down in South Saint Pete On.
Speaker 1: Anybody's been there before, but it's like an Amazon returning
Speaker 1: store and it's wild and probably wear a mask. But
Speaker 1: this is what leads and songs a great degree of
Speaker 1: over consumption. Okay, so what can be done? What do
Speaker 1: we do about this? Because we do have needs and
Speaker 1: all of them matter, and we do have a need
Speaker 1: for stanety and we don't think impulse spending We don't
Speaker 1: think impulse spending is wrong, and we want to be
Speaker 1: able to send well. We believe spending is a skill,
Speaker 1: a skill that can be learned. So the first thing
Speaker 1: that we recommend to people is to ask ourselves some
Speaker 1: better questions. One of the things we like to avoid
Speaker 1: is asking the why question That can really put us
Speaker 1: on the defense. It's the difference between asking my husband,
Speaker 1: why did you send so much as a music store
Speaker 1: what's going on? That's automatic fight mode? To what is
Speaker 1: it about the music store and the things that you
Speaker 1: just purchased that you love so much? Changes the whole
Speaker 1: dynamic from I got to justify this shame guilt too.
Speaker 1: Let me think about that a little more. What need
Speaker 1: am I trying to meet through this purchase? And possibly
Speaker 1: is there a better way to be able to meet
Speaker 1: that need? Do I have to send money to solve
Speaker 1: all of my problems? Do I have to buy my
Speaker 1: way towards meeting my needs? And that can exercise some
Speaker 1: of that creativity need that we have, the self esteem,
Speaker 1: the belonging need. You might actually more fully meet the
Speaker 1: need when we pause and ask these questions rather than
Speaker 1: just jump into let me throw money at it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: dopamine also plays a partner impulse sending, so we want
Speaker 1: to play into that too, So creating a dopamine hit list.
Speaker 1: So if you find if you go back through your
Speaker 1: transactions and find a lot of my impulse sending happens
Speaker 1: at night when I'm scrolling on Amazon or doom scrolling
Speaker 1: on Instagram, then creating a list of alternative things you
Speaker 1: can do that get you that dopamine hit but are
Speaker 1: the same size. So if I'm dune scrolling Instagram and bed,
Speaker 1: the solution is not to get up and go for
Speaker 1: a run at midnight, right, the solution is something of
Speaker 1: the same size but equal dopamine. So maybe playing a game,
Speaker 1: reading a book. I just took up embroidery, so what
Speaker 1: I don't even know this. I know it's very recent, Okay,
Speaker 1: so yeah, I bought the things first. Yeah, so find
Speaker 1: me your dopamine hitless. Maybe your your impulse spending comes
Speaker 1: from browsing farmers' markets or going to like outdoor malls
Speaker 1: or indoor wolves. I don't know if that's just still
Speaker 1: your thing. But then finding equal activities, so maybe then
Speaker 1: that is exercising or going for a walk or a
Speaker 1: bike ride. So figuring out, playing around and getting creative
Speaker 1: and seeing what works for you. Another important thing to
Speaker 1: do here is to align your stending with your season.
Speaker 1: So are you a student? Looking around, I'm going to
Speaker 1: guess not really, we're maybe in our studentshire from our
Speaker 1: throw I'm with you students, but we're all learners. We're
Speaker 1: all learning together. They really are. They should have cut
Speaker 1: off by microphones. Oh my gosh. So we're inclusive. We
Speaker 1: listen and we don't touch. Are you a homeowner? Are
Speaker 1: you married with kids? Are you married without kids? It's
Speaker 1: gonna look different. I have a husband, he's still married
Speaker 1: to me. I hope, But we don't have kids, So
Speaker 1: our stending and our wise beneficial decisions are going to
Speaker 1: look different from Jen who does have kids. And they're wilds,
Speaker 1: but they're beautiful. And I think this is where we
Speaker 1: can recognize that we can individualize our way of spending
Speaker 1: and allocating all of our resources, not just our finances,
Speaker 1: but our time and our mental capacities and our physical energies.
Speaker 1: All of it needs to kind of come together with
Speaker 1: this season that we're in and recognize that it's not
Speaker 1: gonna look the same for every person. There is no
Speaker 1: one side. It's all in the situation, but to recognize
Speaker 1: your needs, to value them, to find creative ways of
Speaker 1: meeting them, and then identify where the money can come
Speaker 1: in from there. Well, that was really fun and I
Speaker 1: still like to talk about the ways that we will
Speaker 1: spend money for love and belonging that Reddit thread. You
Speaker 1: couldn't there was too many funny ones to list on
Speaker 1: the slide of just the bizarre things people have spent
Speaker 1: money on to attract somebody they are interested in, or
Speaker 1: to make friends with a group of people they wanted
Speaker 1: to be friends with. Yeah, it's and we're talking about
Speaker 1: like the funny ones, but they're sad ones as well
Speaker 1: that we didn't talk about, but.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll just keep it light. When I was doing
Speaker 3: research for this this episode, before we made the decision
Speaker 3: that we're just going to inser our nerd night talk
Speaker 3: into this episode, I found there was a study that
Speaker 3: Charles Schwab did in twenty nineteen, so older but probably
Speaker 3: still relevant if I were to poke some guesses at
Speaker 3: this or They found that forty eight percent of millennials
Speaker 3: spent more than they could quote unquote afford in order
Speaker 3: to participate in experiences with friends, and I think that
Speaker 3: especially in our generation, like we do value experiences more
Speaker 3: than things, but we will still spend being Like I
Speaker 3: think we've attached a hierarchy to that, like it's better
Speaker 3: to buy experiences and have memories than to have things
Speaker 3: collecting dust on your shelf. But in reality, if it
Speaker 3: is hurting ourselves financially and we are not taking the
Speaker 3: steps to find even more beneficial ways to meet our needs,
Speaker 3: then there's no better or worse on whether or not
Speaker 3: you have things or you have experiences.
Speaker 1: Yes, well, I think it's as we get older, I
Speaker 1: think it is flip flopped. I think people are spending
Speaker 1: a lot on travel, not even to go with friends
Speaker 1: or to gain community, but for that self actualization piece
Speaker 1: to feel you know, autonomous, independent, creative, spontaneous, and all
Speaker 1: of that is really great and can be one of
Speaker 1: those ways money can buy your higher needs unless it
Speaker 1: is trying to meet all of them. There really does
Speaker 1: need to be a diversity in how you are achieving
Speaker 1: your higher needs too, because I think if we're only
Speaker 1: pursuing that this like glamorous idea of traveling and experiences,
Speaker 1: that can leave us unfulfilled as well.
Speaker 3: Ken Yeah, especially if we're only doing it just because
Speaker 3: other people say this is what you should want to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it can bring all of this you know,
Speaker 1: X y Z. But it's at the expense of deepening
Speaker 1: relationships with people or achieving things that do actually increase
Speaker 1: your self esteem.
Speaker 3: But do you know what means my highest need of creativity, spontaneity,
Speaker 3: self fulfillment.
Speaker 1: Yes, it makes me feel very self fulfilled, self actualized.
Speaker 1: The bill of the week.
Speaker 5: That's right, it's time for the best minute of your
Speaker 5: entire week. Maybe a baby was born and his name
Speaker 5: is William. Maybe you've paid off your mortgage. Maybe your
Speaker 5: car died and you're happy to not have to pay
Speaker 5: that bill anymore. Stuff bills, Buffalo bills, Bill Clinton, This
Speaker 5: is the bill of the week.
Speaker 4: Hey Jen, Hey Jill, this is Jen calling again. This
Speaker 4: is my third Bill of the week, but I had
Speaker 4: to share. I'm sure y'all have sick of hearing from me.
Speaker 4: But anyways, back in two thousand and nine, we wanted
Speaker 4: to take the kids to Disney World, so we signed
Speaker 4: up for a credit card with zero percent interest for
Speaker 4: twenty four months.
Speaker 1: We had every.
Speaker 4: Intention of paying get off in twenty four months.
Speaker 1: Well, that didn't happen.
Speaker 4: We continue to use it, and at a twenty three
Speaker 4: percent interest rate, it continued to rack up. I started
Speaker 4: listening to you guys a while back, and it lit
Speaker 4: a fire in me to pay this credit card off.
Speaker 4: My kids were six and nine when we took this trip,
Speaker 4: and now they're twenty one and twenty four. So I'm
Speaker 4: so proud to say I finally paid off that trip.
Speaker 1: Thanks Jen, way to go. I never get tired from
Speaker 1: hearing from you, because it's always good. This is such
Speaker 1: an accomplishment and a testament to how are human brains
Speaker 1: can have the best intentions, and even as fully grown adults,
Speaker 1: we still can make decisions that are opposite the things
Speaker 1: we say we want to do. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Man, I mean there's so much here. First of all,
Speaker 3: just congratulations on paying off that credit card bill. It
Speaker 3: sounds like it took a while, there were habits that
Speaker 3: intersected all of that, but it's paid for. But I
Speaker 3: think also to kind of highlight what we've also been
Speaker 3: talking about here of the reason for taking out that
Speaker 3: credit card. Not only does it look really appealing to
Speaker 3: have zero percent for a couple of years, but that
Speaker 3: only matters if we then pay it off within that time,
Speaker 3: and so that is the trap. It's why credit cards
Speaker 3: will do that because they know there's a pretty high
Speaker 3: chance that we won't pay it off and we're going
Speaker 3: to end up paying that twenty four percent interest. But
Speaker 3: the good desires that you had of having meaningful time
Speaker 3: with your kids or family, experiencing that kind of love
Speaker 3: and belonging probably met some of your esteem needs. I
Speaker 3: truly hope that it was a really lovely Disney vacation,
Speaker 3: but I think it's a good thing for us to
Speaker 3: kind of think through if I have to go into
Speaker 3: debt for this thing, is there another way for me
Speaker 3: to be able to get after what I'm looking for,
Speaker 3: that experience I'm looking to have with my family. But congratulations,
Speaker 3: thanks for sharing, Thanks for being vulnerable with us in
Speaker 3: this Bill of the week. If you all listening, have
Speaker 3: a bill that you want to share, if it's about
Speaker 3: paying off a credit card, choosing not to get a
Speaker 3: credit card, ways that you're meeting your higher needs without
Speaker 3: paying any bills. Rugal friendspodcast, dot Com, slash bill. We
Speaker 3: can't wait to hear it. And now it's time for
Speaker 3: the Lightning rep.
Speaker 1: All right, Today's vulnerability around what's your favorite way to
Speaker 1: spend on your higher needs? Has just deleted her answer. Well,
Speaker 1: now I feel like I can't say this. I will.
Speaker 3: I will tell you that I wrote travel with friends
Speaker 3: because here's the thing.
Speaker 1: I do really enjoy it. It's a good way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I won't even say even solo traveling for self
Speaker 1: actualization still a good way to spend money to meet
Speaker 1: your higher needes.
Speaker 3: Right, It just is you know, very classic millennial right here.
Speaker 3: But I my some of my most favorite experiences, best
Speaker 3: memories with Eric and friends truly are when we're traveling together.
Speaker 3: But I do think part of that is because of
Speaker 3: the dedicated time spent together and something that I've also
Speaker 3: been realizing, so to temper this like that still is
Speaker 3: going to be true, and I still will travel with friends,
Speaker 3: but to not tempt everyone to like go get credit
Speaker 3: cards and like pay for this thing that you think
Speaker 3: is going to provide you with an experiences. I think
Speaker 3: recognizing that that dedicated time where you can really enjoy
Speaker 3: and share a significant portion of an experience with somebody
Speaker 3: is really what I enjoy, and there are ways of
Speaker 3: getting that outside of hopping on a plane and going
Speaker 3: somewhere with people like That is also you know, renting
Speaker 3: an Airbnb for the weekend and everyone chipping in for food.
Speaker 3: That is going camping. That is spending a whole afternoon
Speaker 3: going on a hike together. That is having people over
Speaker 3: for dinner and they're hanging out for a few hours
Speaker 3: uninterrupted by a bunch of like wait staff and crowded
Speaker 3: a crowded room where you can't hardly hear people out
Speaker 3: at a restaurant. So there are other ways that I
Speaker 3: get this experience and not spend money. But yeah, I
Speaker 3: also don't mind saving up for and spending on this
Speaker 3: category as well. Yeah, what about for you?
Speaker 1: Travel is not one of my highest values, which makes
Speaker 1: me a very weird millennial. I still love to do it,
Speaker 1: It's just not something I love to do with young kids.
Speaker 1: My children, my youngest does not travel well, so it
Speaker 1: is a nightmare. So I would say, right now, I
Speaker 1: think my favorite way to spend on my higher needs.
Speaker 1: This is gonna sound really bad, but stay with me. Well,
Speaker 1: I guess it's unfulfilling work. I think I've really enjoyed
Speaker 1: being in this season where we're actually spending a lot
Speaker 1: of money in the business, which is very uncharacteristic for us,
Speaker 1: and it's really inspired creativity in me and it's given
Speaker 1: a good health healthy pressure to get more creative because
Speaker 1: we are having to justify spending this money and that
Speaker 1: has been a good We've we've been doing the kind
Speaker 1: of the same thing for a year, so it's feeling
Speaker 1: really good right now to do something that is is
Speaker 1: just the next step.
Speaker 3: Oh, I agree. The release of the book has has
Speaker 3: felt like a metaphorical release as well. Yeah, not just
Speaker 3: the physical book being out in the world, but really
Speaker 3: feeling the freedom now to pursue other things. That everything
Speaker 3: was kind of tied to the book for so long
Speaker 3: and we had obligations and responsibilities to you know, not
Speaker 3: just writing it, but marketing it and talking about it.
Speaker 3: And you'll still hear us talking about it because we're
Speaker 3: super proud of it and we think it's going to
Speaker 3: help people. Yes, but also now that it's in the world,
Speaker 3: we it's out there and we are our hands are
Speaker 3: now open to pick up something else. And where I
Speaker 3: thought that I was just going to feel so tired,
Speaker 3: I actually feel so invigorated to step into something different
Speaker 3: and the freedom of that, And like you're saying, I agree,
Speaker 3: the investment, like being willing to put money into something
Speaker 3: that you're excited about that is bringing about some of
Speaker 3: this like invigoration and creativity. Yeah, that's it's worth a lot.
Speaker 1: It's I mean, there's something to be said for spending
Speaker 1: money on stuff like this because do we have to
Speaker 1: That was always our first question. It's like, do we
Speaker 1: have to spend money on camera equipment? Do we have
Speaker 1: to spend money online? And do we have to spend
Speaker 1: money on an office? And the answer was always no,
Speaker 1: and still is no. We don't have to to make
Speaker 1: things function. But now that we have, we have sparked
Speaker 1: creativity and given ourselves like healthy pressure and time constraints
Speaker 1: to work more creatively, just like in the in the
Speaker 1: book the story, the study you reference where they were
Speaker 1: given parameters, they were able to work, you know, more
Speaker 1: creatively and innovatively. And I really believe that that is
Speaker 1: what we have given ourselves.
Speaker 3: I do think there's such a both and here which
Speaker 3: is connected to that radical middle idea that there are
Speaker 3: ways in which we can meet our higher needs without
Speaker 3: spending money, and that's true, and there are ways we
Speaker 3: can meet our higher needs through spending money, and that's true.
Speaker 3: And that's the paradox that can make this message like
Speaker 3: we're hard to deliver because it's kind of hard to grasp, like, well,
Speaker 3: which is it? And it depends, Like debt is neutral, right,
Speaker 3: and sometimes some debt is going to be more beneficial
Speaker 3: for a person and that same debt might be detrimental
Speaker 3: for a different person.
Speaker 1: In the same amount from the same amount.
Speaker 3: The same thing, Like it's yeah, uh, but it is
Speaker 3: what we're saying that like both can be true. And
Speaker 3: that's where really understanding ourselves can help us to distinguish
Speaker 3: between what is it for me? And I think that
Speaker 3: there's trial and error here, and I think it's one
Speaker 3: of the reasons why we don't have to be so
Speaker 3: down on ourselves for maybe quote unquote financial mistakes or
Speaker 3: poor financial decisions that we've made, because it helps us
Speaker 3: to find what's right for us. Yeah, we're not going
Speaker 3: to hit it one hundred percent all of the time.
Speaker 3: There were times where it was right that we were
Speaker 3: really scrappy with the business and we didn't spend on
Speaker 3: XYZ thing. And I also think it's right that we
Speaker 3: spent some money on some cool comfortable chairs to build
Speaker 3: out a video studio because it's invigorating us to create
Speaker 3: something that we think is going to really help people
Speaker 3: and also is fulfilling for us. So there are times
Speaker 3: that it's worth investing and it's times that it's worth saving.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yeah, you look at us just growing, growing, discovering
Speaker 1: little business owners.
Speaker 3: Yes. Well, thank you all for listening so much. We
Speaker 3: hope that somewhere in this podcast episode you got something
Speaker 3: that is relevant for you and your life and that
Speaker 3: you are able to navigate the both and of your experience.
Speaker 3: And in addition to the podcast, as you know, we've
Speaker 3: written a book by what you Love Without Going Broke,
Speaker 3: and people are leaving us some really kind reviews for
Speaker 3: the book, like this one from Rosy g. It's five
Speaker 3: stars and says I've listened to the Frugal Friends podcast
Speaker 3: for years. It's like laughing with friends of her coffee
Speaker 3: in the morning and helpful. I've received an advanced copy
Speaker 3: of the book and thought, what more could I get
Speaker 3: that I don't get from the podcast. The book is
Speaker 3: like getting more serious and sharing more personal things once
Speaker 3: your armor has gone down after the laughs. It makes
Speaker 3: you really try to uncover more deeply the psychological aspects
Speaker 3: of money without the usual self reprimands and shame. That's
Speaker 3: big because shame and embarrassment is literally the definition of
Speaker 3: money for some of us. I appreciate that I could
Speaker 3: learn more about myself and money in a safe space.
Speaker 3: It also included the put into practice aspect with actionable
Speaker 3: steps that just move things forward. It's easy to read
Speaker 3: and I appreciate that recommend for anyone embarking on the
Speaker 3: journey of having healthy finances.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much, Rosie. That's so sweet. I'm
Speaker 1: so glad that we really did balance that serious versus
Speaker 1: you know, fun kind of line, and that's really what
Speaker 1: we tried to do in the book. So thank you
Speaker 1: so much much for reading, and thank you for listening.
Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this show, we would so appreciate if
Speaker 1: you would leave a rating and review on Spotify or
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts wherever you're listening to this And if you've
Speaker 1: read the book, either from you've bought it or read
Speaker 1: it from the library, we would appreciate if you would
Speaker 1: leave a review on Amazon or good Reads. That very
Speaker 1: much helps us get the word out and not let
Speaker 1: people know potential new listeners or readers know what to
Speaker 1: expect from us as content creators.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you so much for listening, Thanks for reading,
Speaker 3: See you next time. Bye.
Speaker 1: Frugal Friends is produced by Eric Siriani.
Speaker 3: What's your favorite thing that we've bought for the business
Speaker 3: in the last six months?
Speaker 1: In the last six months, where I mean I could
Speaker 1: say my favorite thing ever is the Neon sign? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that wasn't the last thing I know about that a
Speaker 1: long time ago. My favorite thing is possibly is it
Speaker 1: the other neon sign? Wait are you? Are you like
Speaker 1: asking like I've got an answer that's correct and you
Speaker 1: have to find the answer kind of Yeah, No, just
Speaker 1: like your opinion on like, what's your favorite thing? Okay,
Speaker 1: my favorite thing that we've boughted not spy, it's the office.
Speaker 1: It's the office for sure, but also the other neon
Speaker 1: sign that we put in the window that says on air.
Speaker 1: It's also pink meon. I love that. And it's guarded
Speaker 1: by our Flamingo queen. Yeah, Queen Flamingo. She doesn't have
Speaker 1: a name. She's Flamingo Queen. She wears a crown. She
Speaker 1: and pearls and pearls and diamond and I don't know why,
Speaker 1: but here she is. Yeah, Jill, I mean I would.
Speaker 3: Agree with you on the office. But for the sake
Speaker 3: of variety, I will say these chairs.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, high up there.
Speaker 3: We we splurched, we got we got a little spendy.
Speaker 3: We were looking for chairs. We were we were looking
Speaker 3: on Facebook, Marketplace, could not find any. The right size,
Speaker 3: the right shape, the.
Speaker 1: Right color, color scheme was actually very important and comfort.
Speaker 3: And we did have a bit of a time crunch,
Speaker 3: so we gave ourselves, you know, a couple of weeks
Speaker 3: to look. But in the end we really did just
Speaker 3: need to pull the trigger. And I think we were
Speaker 3: hoping to spend like, I don't know, four hundred total,
Speaker 3: behind eight hundred total. You're telling that I am, because listen,
Speaker 3: at the very end, we're at the end. This is
Speaker 3: this is post show. These are the people who won't judging,
Speaker 3: rely love us.
Speaker 1: It was a business expense, which is still real money,
Speaker 1: which means the government. So it's fine. So it's free.
Speaker 1: They bought it for us, and thank you. We thank
Speaker 1: them for that.
Speaker 3: But it is it is perfect.
Speaker 1: And when we past with these chairs a YouTube channel, watch, yeah,
Speaker 1: subscribe on YouTube. You are about to see them.
Speaker 3: It's about to hit March third, I guess with just
Speaker 3: a few more days.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we'll be announcing it officially on Tuesday, but
Speaker 1: I guess we can tell you guys now, Yeah, why
Speaker 1: not Sunday we are launching a new program, I new series.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's called the Sunday Reset, which we love because
Speaker 3: who doesn't who doesn't love the inspiration that we all
Speaker 3: need when what can happen on Sundays is the scaries. Instead,
Speaker 3: we're going to be there for you every single Sunday
Speaker 3: on YouTube with video where it's a little bit shorter
Speaker 3: of a video episode where we're going to be talking
Speaker 3: about our meal plan for the last week, so the
Speaker 3: things that we had just cooked with links to recipes
Speaker 3: so you know that we liked them and our families
Speaker 3: liked them. We're going to be talking about a money
Speaker 3: move we did that week. So some of them are
Speaker 3: going to be big, some of them are small, but
Speaker 3: hopefully all will be a little bit inspirational.
Speaker 1: Bring us forward, some of them bring us backwards.
Speaker 3: Chuse a money move might be a money failure, yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, because we're not perfect. And then a listener question.
Speaker 3: So we've already begin compiling some listener questions, but that's
Speaker 3: another way that you can be engaging with us. Have
Speaker 3: your voice heard, get some of your own questions answered
Speaker 3: is by submitting questions to us. The best way to
Speaker 3: do that at this point is through the friend letter,
Speaker 3: So Frugal friendspodcast dot com. You can sign up for
Speaker 3: the free friend letter and then email us through that.
Speaker 1: Well, don't email, well, like respond to the email because
Speaker 1: those all go to my inbox. That's a lot you're
Speaker 1: going to need. Nope, there's going to be special avenues
Speaker 1: that we're going to set up, but for right now,
Speaker 1: for right now, we've got.
Speaker 3: A question, all right, dm me, I handle the Instagram account,
Speaker 3: So follow Frugal Friends Podcast and dm.
Speaker 1: Me, I just got a lot of email.
Speaker 3: Okay, don't email jen follow me on Instagram, yeah, and
Speaker 3: I'll respond.
Speaker 1: We're going to create a channel for the questions, like
Speaker 1: I'm flying fast and loose over here. So we were
Speaker 1: not going to announce it right now, so the channel
Speaker 1: doesn't exist, but it will. It will, and in the meantime,
Speaker 1: just don't let me because our Instagram I am close
Speaker 1: to the edge. I'm trying not to lose my head.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm excited about the YouTube series and you will
Speaker 3: be seeing it in just a few days.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that is the first. That is the first
Speaker 1: YouTube series that we're hoping to start. We're hoping to
Speaker 1: add another one in a few months as well, which
Speaker 1: we're not going to dive into yet, but I think
Speaker 1: we may. Yeah, we've alluded to it a little bit.
Speaker 3: But just subscribe to our YouTube channel and you'll get
Speaker 3: alerted to search Brugal Friends on YouTube and series drop.
Speaker 3: Get ready for the first Sunday reset coming at you
Speaker 3: this Sunday. Poop poop peep, phew, see ya Bye.