WEBVTT - Acquitted Uvalde Officer Speaks:  He Has “No Regrets”

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<v Speaker 1>Hey there, everybody. Welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ.

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<v Speaker 1>It is Friday, January twenty third, and we are hearing

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<v Speaker 1>for the very first time that acquitted Uvaldi police officer

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<v Speaker 1>after he received a not guilty verdict on those twenty

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<v Speaker 1>nine counts of child endangerment for his role as he

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<v Speaker 1>was called to the scene of the rob Elementary School massacre.

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<v Speaker 1>And with that, everyone, thank you so much for being here.

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<v Speaker 1>He was very, very emotional in this interview.

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<v Speaker 2>Ah, you know what, it will get came late. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know how they edited this thing, but I was

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<v Speaker 2>expecting to hear more from him. He's sitting there flanked

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<v Speaker 2>by his attorneys and they did most of the talking

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<v Speaker 2>quite frankly, and he's defiant, he's defending himself. He got

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<v Speaker 2>emotional at the end, and look, there are some parts

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<v Speaker 2>of that your heart. You're in conflict with this guy.

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<v Speaker 3>Because he does stand by his actions.

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<v Speaker 1>And when I say actions, a lot of people would

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<v Speaker 1>say he's inaction that day because prosecutors and obviously they

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<v Speaker 1>pursued these charges against him because they said it was

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<v Speaker 1>his inaction on that day that contributed to the deaths.

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<v Speaker 3>Of nineteen children and two teachers.

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<v Speaker 1>A jury disagreed with that, but we all, I think,

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<v Speaker 1>at this point, know the story. It took law enforcement

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<v Speaker 1>seventy seven minutes to ultimately confront that gunman, and Gonzalez

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<v Speaker 1>was the first, if not one of the first officers

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<v Speaker 1>on the scene that day, and by most accounts people

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<v Speaker 1>who were there, he was on the scene before the

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<v Speaker 1>gunman actually went into rob Elementary school, and that is

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<v Speaker 1>one of the main reasons prosecutors pursued those charges against him.

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<v Speaker 1>But Gonzales defiant is a good word that he was

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<v Speaker 1>defiant in this interview.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm defending himself, i should say, because defiant almost

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<v Speaker 2>sounds negative. But he has been the public face of

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<v Speaker 2>a tragedy. To a certain degree, it's his fault he

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<v Speaker 2>did it. I cannot imagine what his life has been

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<v Speaker 2>like the past several years. So to a certain degree

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<v Speaker 2>he sounded pissed, and that's.

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<v Speaker 3>Legitimate, Yeah, and that's fair.

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<v Speaker 1>His quote was, you can sit here and tell me

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<v Speaker 1>all you want about what I would have done or

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<v Speaker 1>what you would have done. Until you're in that mix,

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<v Speaker 1>you can't tell me anything. I agree with that, and

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<v Speaker 1>I hear that, and I do agree with that, But

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<v Speaker 1>other people would say, but you're a police officer who's

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<v Speaker 1>been trained to handle this exact situation.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so he's not he wasn't good at his job,

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<v Speaker 2>But we kept saying, is that a crime because he

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<v Speaker 2>failed or he performed poorly? We all have performed poorly

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<v Speaker 2>at some point or some day. He had a bad

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<v Speaker 2>day at work, and he had a bad day on

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<v Speaker 2>the worst day, he should be fired. But does he

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<v Speaker 2>need to go to prison? I don't know where the

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<v Speaker 2>line is from a legal standpoint.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you know, you think about it.

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<v Speaker 1>Police officers, emergency workers, and maybe doctors, surgeons, physicians. Those

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<v Speaker 1>are people where decisions they make on the job literally

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<v Speaker 1>can result in life or death. There are significant consequences

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<v Speaker 1>for folks who work in those industries day in and

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<v Speaker 1>day out.

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<v Speaker 2>They call it malpractice, right, maw practice. But how often

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<v Speaker 2>are doctors going to jail for killing somebody?

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<v Speaker 1>Right?

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<v Speaker 2>How often are they going to jail? Right? I know

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<v Speaker 2>what you're saying, that absolutely is out, that absolutely happens.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't. I just don't know the answer legally, But

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<v Speaker 2>you can't tell me. And I hear what he's saying.

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<v Speaker 2>I have a difficult time listening to him say he

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't wish he did something different that day.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so he did say, And I'll get into the

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<v Speaker 1>exact quote here, because look, he claims that he did

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<v Speaker 1>go inside the school building, but that he retreated because

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<v Speaker 1>he says he received a direct order from his commanding officer.

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<v Speaker 3>So here is his quote.

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<v Speaker 1>I did the best that I could with the information

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<v Speaker 1>I was getting. I don't regret it because I took

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<v Speaker 1>an order from my chief at that time.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, That's that's difficult for parents to hear. That's difficult

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<v Speaker 2>for community to hear, for a country to hear. He's

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<v Speaker 2>that one's tough. Nineteen kids are dead and you were

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<v Speaker 2>the first one there, and you don't wish you could

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<v Speaker 2>have saved one of them by doing something different. That's uh, dude,

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<v Speaker 2>that's tough.

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<v Speaker 3>He was playingo to hear.

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<v Speaker 1>It's very tough to hear for the two of us

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<v Speaker 1>who don't have children who were in that school at

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<v Speaker 1>that time. Yes, if I heard that and I were

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<v Speaker 1>a parent of one of those kids, that sentence alone

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<v Speaker 1>could send me over the edge.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a good way to wait. That that could that

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<v Speaker 2>would be the one that it brings it all back

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<v Speaker 2>to a certain degree. That's that's tough. I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>and you I didn't. I fast forward far, frankly through

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<v Speaker 2>the parts of his attorneys speaking. Did you listen to

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<v Speaker 2>that stuff?

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<v Speaker 1>I do.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't know if they ever try to cut him

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<v Speaker 2>off or say you're saying the wrong thing. I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>know what their interaction was.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, obviously we got an edited version, right, I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>see the I didn't see the uh, the actual full interview.

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<v Speaker 1>But I can say that their attorney just basically tried

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<v Speaker 1>to turn the tables and say this is all the

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<v Speaker 1>prosecutor's fault. They created this narrative, they created this anger

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<v Speaker 1>that should never have been directed at Adrian Gonzales, which

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<v Speaker 1>I kind of disagree with because having been on a

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<v Speaker 1>scene there in Uvaldi, I saw the parent's anger firsthand

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<v Speaker 1>at the police officers in real time. I was there,

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<v Speaker 1>I believe within a day of the shooting, and angry

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<v Speaker 1>parents were talking to anyone that they could about the

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<v Speaker 1>police officer's decision not to go inside, to not confront

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<v Speaker 1>that shooter.

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<v Speaker 2>How soon, though, did he become the face. I kind

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<v Speaker 2>of remember how soon his name and this story started

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<v Speaker 2>getting out because he said he is is now. It

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<v Speaker 2>was intentional. He was their scape ghost. Yes, here he is, everybody,

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<v Speaker 2>this is the guy to be mad at.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, I don't know the timeline, but his attorney said

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<v Speaker 1>the injustice was in starting by telling the family that

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<v Speaker 1>Adrian was responsible, because he was not. The jury determined

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<v Speaker 1>he was not. They came to the correct verdict. But

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<v Speaker 1>of course the families don't feel that was correct. That's

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<v Speaker 1>because he says they were told something different. So they're

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<v Speaker 1>blaming the charges. They're blaming prosecutors for all of the

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<v Speaker 1>anger to be directed at Officer Gonzales. And to a degree,

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<v Speaker 1>I understand that because he was, he is the name

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<v Speaker 1>you now associate. The truth is, as journalists, we have

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<v Speaker 1>shied away from and really stopped putting out the shooter's

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<v Speaker 1>name because we don't want to glorify. We don't want

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<v Speaker 1>to incentivize any troubled person to say, oh well, if

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<v Speaker 1>I go out this way, my name will live an infamy.

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<v Speaker 1>I was on the scene, covered this shooting for days.

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<v Speaker 1>I cannot tell you the name of the shooter because

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<v Speaker 1>we don't say it. But I can tell you the

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<v Speaker 1>name of Officer Adrian Gonzales.

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<v Speaker 2>That's interesting, I mean, it's yeah, I mean this is

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know the chief's name. Maybe I'll start to

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<v Speaker 2>remember that name later. He's going to be tried as well,

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<v Speaker 2>the former you've already school police chief, But Adrian Gonzales

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<v Speaker 2>will have to I think I'm not sure which is worse,

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<v Speaker 2>the personal hell or the public hell, because listening to

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<v Speaker 2>him today he got emotional, yes at the end, talking

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<v Speaker 2>about the personal told, not being able to go home

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<v Speaker 2>and all that stuff you'll mention in a moment. But

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<v Speaker 2>Rome's you have got to from a personal standpoint, it

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<v Speaker 2>has got to be difficult to live with what he

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<v Speaker 2>has to live with. It didn't come off that way

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<v Speaker 2>in the interview.

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<v Speaker 1>See I hear you because and that was the problem

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<v Speaker 1>with that I don't regret it part. I'm curious what

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<v Speaker 1>you think you mentioned? He was flanked by both of

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<v Speaker 1>his lawyers. Right, he has to be concerned about civil

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<v Speaker 1>lawsuits obviously, so does he sort of to protect himself

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<v Speaker 1>legally or even maybe financially. Does he have to double

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<v Speaker 1>down and say I don't regret it because I followed

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<v Speaker 1>an order.

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<v Speaker 2>Can I ask is there isn't there something it dimnifies

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<v Speaker 2>police officers from being sued civilly? Oh?

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<v Speaker 3>You know what that very well.

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<v Speaker 1>I know there is some sort of civil thing in

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<v Speaker 1>the works, but I don't know there's a civil lawsuit,

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<v Speaker 1>but I don't know if it's against the police department itself.

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<v Speaker 3>You're right, maybe not individual officers.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't know if he can. I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>what he's facing moving forward, other than for the rest

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<v Speaker 2>of his life being the public face and the public blame.

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<v Speaker 2>He is the one. This is the guy who folks

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<v Speaker 2>say responded, so again, my heart goes out to him

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<v Speaker 2>for what he has to do with personally and publicly.

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<v Speaker 2>But listening to him today, wash was tough to hear,

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<v Speaker 2>Like I didn't hear remorse, sane for the kids. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I heard it for what he is dealing with. Now

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<v Speaker 2>that makes.

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<v Speaker 1>Sense, yes, because and look even it kind of reads

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<v Speaker 1>from what he said. As soon as that not guilty

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<v Speaker 1>verdict was read, he was asked almost immediately by reporters,

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<v Speaker 1>do you have anything to say to the families that

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<v Speaker 1>would have been an opportunity, that would have been an

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<v Speaker 1>opportunity to say something. He said, no, not at this moment.

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<v Speaker 1>And then when he was asked again in this sit

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<v Speaker 1>down interview, this is what he said in this felt

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<v Speaker 1>a little a lot short for me. He said, whatever

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<v Speaker 1>I say to them, meaning the families, I know it's

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<v Speaker 1>not going to ease their pain, but they're always in

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<v Speaker 1>my prayers, you know, so they can start healing. I

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<v Speaker 1>would have liked to hear something more.

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<v Speaker 2>Look, it's tough to sit and we can have an

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<v Speaker 2>impression of we don't know who this guy, and so

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<v Speaker 2>I scanned judge him for the answers and how he

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<v Speaker 2>gave them. But just if somebody, I think the youth

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<v Speaker 2>said it the best. If you are a parent and

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<v Speaker 2>you heard some of this man, if you had anger

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<v Speaker 2>at this guy before and then after the verdict and

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<v Speaker 2>then after this interview, you gotta be human at some

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<v Speaker 2>of the stuff. He said.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And he was even kind of saying it's not fair.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not fair, and it might not have been fair,

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<v Speaker 1>and it might be completely unfair that he was singled out,

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<v Speaker 1>But just to hear him say it, after everything these

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<v Speaker 1>families had been through, he said, when the video started playing,

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<v Speaker 1>I realized they handpicked me. They had an excuse for

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<v Speaker 1>everybody else they did this, did that, you know, but

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<v Speaker 1>I had to do this.

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<v Speaker 3>I had to do that.

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<v Speaker 1>So he was playing the victim, and look, he very well.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe in this he may have been the one who

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<v Speaker 1>was victimized legally unfairly.

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<v Speaker 3>That's not for me to say.

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<v Speaker 1>But it doesn't sound great to be complaining when so

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<v Speaker 1>many people have lost the unthinkable.

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<v Speaker 2>And again I take him at his word for what

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<v Speaker 2>he's gone through. Your heart goes out to him again

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<v Speaker 2>for a way has to do with publicly and privately,

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<v Speaker 2>but Roges he has an opportunity here. There is exactly,

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<v Speaker 2>there's a pr problem he thinks he has. You didn't

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<v Speaker 2>help it. It just the I know he spoke for

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<v Speaker 2>a moment about loving kids and always went to work

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<v Speaker 2>with kids, and that came off. But to to when

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<v Speaker 2>ask when you got an opportunity here to speak to

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<v Speaker 2>these parents, man, how could you just not?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm devastated.

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<v Speaker 1>I go to Betty's night seeing their little faces and

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<v Speaker 1>it haunts me and I feel I mean, whatever it is,

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<v Speaker 1>but just yeah, you needed a human moment there where

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<v Speaker 1>you wanted.

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<v Speaker 3>To say, a human moment.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, you relate to him and you relate to his pain.

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<v Speaker 1>And he didn't give anyone that. So when we come back,

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<v Speaker 1>you mentioned he got emotional at the end, we'll talk

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<v Speaker 1>about how he's feeling since that acquittal and how he

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<v Speaker 1>says he is now preparing for the next battle. And

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<v Speaker 1>welcome back everyone to this episode of Amy and TJ.

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<v Speaker 1>We are talking about the Uvaldi police officer, the former

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<v Speaker 1>officer who was acquitted this week on twenty nine counts

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<v Speaker 1>of child endangerment for what prosecutor said was in action,

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<v Speaker 1>his inaction at the rob Elementary School nearly four years ago.

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<v Speaker 1>And the big headline was that he said on microphone,

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<v Speaker 1>looking back after everything, he has no regrets. He said

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<v Speaker 1>he took an order from his chief at the time

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<v Speaker 1>and he doesn't regret his actions. It was a tough

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<v Speaker 1>thing to hear, and he said it fairly stoically, flanked

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<v Speaker 1>by his attorneys, but he did get emotional towards the

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<v Speaker 1>end of the interview when he talked about the personal

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<v Speaker 1>toll this is taken on him and his family. He

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<v Speaker 1>says he can never return to Uvaldi and Euvaldi is

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<v Speaker 1>where he was born, where he was raised, and where

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<v Speaker 1>he worked. And he said this through a lot of emotion,

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<v Speaker 1>and this is the part where he got emotional, and

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<v Speaker 1>he said, this is a struggle for me, for my family,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, to get up and leave.

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<v Speaker 3>It's hard. Did your heart go out to him in

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<v Speaker 3>that moment.

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<v Speaker 2>From the moment the shooting happened, he did. I've not

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<v Speaker 2>had a moment of anger necessarily. I want to direct

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<v Speaker 2>towards him, disappointment, disappointment in some of this interview and all.

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<v Speaker 2>But he's a human being and he messed up and

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<v Speaker 2>people died, and that's but he won't admit that he

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<v Speaker 2>he won't. Okay, he's not suggesting any responsibility is one thing,

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<v Speaker 2>but to not even say, man, I thought to myself,

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<v Speaker 2>if maybe I'd have done this, or maybe I'd have

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<v Speaker 2>gone here, or maybe if I would have refused that order,

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<v Speaker 2>or maybe if I just would have won. I think

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<v Speaker 2>so many times of what I could have done differently

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<v Speaker 2>to save one little.

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<v Speaker 3>Bukaroo that would have been everything.

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<v Speaker 1>Give me something that would have been everything, to parents

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<v Speaker 1>to hear that he did it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's my training. I couldn't see around the building. I

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<v Speaker 2>never saw the guy. I saw this woman frantic. They

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<v Speaker 2>sounded like excuses, and that doesn't help anybody heal. If

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<v Speaker 2>you're not going to get a guilty verdict, give him something.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, just say I'm tortured thinking about what I should

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<v Speaker 1>have done what I could have done, and it keeps

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<v Speaker 1>me up at night. Just something to let the parents

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<v Speaker 1>know that you feel you feel bad about what happened

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<v Speaker 1>in your role in it.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe he's done that privately in some private messages. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know if they want to hear from this guy,

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<v Speaker 2>but maybe we're saying it here and maybe it's taking

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<v Speaker 2>place somewhere.

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<v Speaker 1>Else perhaps, But the family members who showed up in

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<v Speaker 1>court didn't seem to have any warm feelings towards him

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<v Speaker 1>at all. Now, he did say in this interview that

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<v Speaker 1>this was the first of two battles, and he said

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to win the second one. He's talking about

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<v Speaker 1>now these charges that are that have been filed against

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<v Speaker 1>that chief, the former chief Pete Aaron Dondo, and he

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<v Speaker 1>said that he talks with him every single day and

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<v Speaker 1>he believes he is innocent. Now the chief has been

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<v Speaker 1>charged with ten counts of child and najerment. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know how they came up with these different numbers for

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<v Speaker 1>his response to the shooting. There's no trial date that's

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<v Speaker 1>been set. But I go back to his no regret

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<v Speaker 1>statement because he said I did the best I could

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<v Speaker 1>with the information I was getting I don't regret it

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<v Speaker 1>because I took an order from my chief, didn't he

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<v Speaker 1>just throw the chief under the bus with that statement

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<v Speaker 1>right there.

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<v Speaker 2>I haven't heard the chief thing throughout the story. Maybe

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<v Speaker 2>I've just overlooked it, but.

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<v Speaker 1>This is the first I heard it, and I kept

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<v Speaker 1>thinking it was interesting that he then went on to

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<v Speaker 1>say that he doesn't think the chief did anything wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>He thinks the chief is innocent. He speaks with the

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<v Speaker 1>chief every day, but he in that statement, literally blamed

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<v Speaker 1>him for his own.

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<v Speaker 2>Sight at the time. Was he But yeah, he's saying,

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<v Speaker 2>somebody else told me not to do anything.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's interesting. Now we also learned a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit about who he is. Fifty two years old, and

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<v Speaker 1>you talked a little bit about this, but he talked

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<v Speaker 1>about working as a school police officer after a decade

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<v Speaker 1>with the Yuvaldi Police Department. But before that, I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>realize this. He spent eighteen years as a teacher. For

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<v Speaker 1>whatever reason, that makes what happen feel even worse, Like

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<v Speaker 1>he knew what it was like to be in those classrooms, unarmed, unprepared,

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<v Speaker 1>with that responsibility of those children in your classroom, trying

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<v Speaker 1>to protect them. It feels like, Wow, had I known

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<v Speaker 1>he was a teacher for eighteen years before he became

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<v Speaker 1>a police officer, that feels extra disappointing.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it feels like he should have stayed in

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<v Speaker 2>the classroom, that maybe he wasn't cut out to be

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<v Speaker 2>a police officer. Maybe if he was in a classroom

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<v Speaker 2>and the shooting happened, he could have saved more lives.

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<v Speaker 2>In that mindset, there was something that as a police officer,

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<v Speaker 2>he didn't put himself in harm's way or first, as

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<v Speaker 2>the prosecution was arguing, you cannot there is zero chance

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<v Speaker 2>or I could predict what I would do in that situation.

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<v Speaker 2>But what I can tell you is that as a parent,

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<v Speaker 2>I can tell you what I would do because I

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<v Speaker 2>would do exactly what those other parents did or had

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<v Speaker 2>to physically be restrained to keep from going in there

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<v Speaker 2>to say their kids, and the guy with the gun

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<v Speaker 2>didn't go.

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<v Speaker 1>And you wonder if Adrian Gonzalez had a child in there,

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<v Speaker 1>if he would have acted differently.

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<v Speaker 2>The ifs and this and that, and now it's just

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<v Speaker 2>your your heart does go out to him and want

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<v Speaker 2>to reserve room for that. Don't know him personally at all,

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<v Speaker 2>and really listening to him talk about kids and being

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<v Speaker 2>a teacher, sounded like a good dude.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he really does.

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<v Speaker 2>So this is just awful, and the families seem like

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<v Speaker 2>they're getting victimized all over again. Yeah, so it's just awful.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, the other trial is coming, so they're gonna

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<v Speaker 2>have to go through this.

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<v Speaker 1>They're gonna have to go through this one more time.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, just seeing how these other trials have happened,

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<v Speaker 1>from the Parkland trial to now this Uvaldi trial, there

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<v Speaker 1>hasn't been any closure for these families where they feel

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<v Speaker 1>like they got some justice because of the lack of protection,

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<v Speaker 1>perhaps we could say for their children. We will see

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<v Speaker 1>what happens when the chief goes to trial, and as

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<v Speaker 1>soon as we have that trial date, any new information

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<v Speaker 1>on this, of course, will bring it to you. But

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<v Speaker 1>in the meantime, thank you so much for listening to us.

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<v Speaker 3>Everyone. I'm made me Roebuck alongside T. J. Holmes. We'll

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<v Speaker 3>talk to you soon.