1 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Hey there, everybody. Welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. 2 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 1: It is Friday, January twenty third, and we are hearing 3 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: for the very first time that acquitted Uvaldi police officer 4 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: after he received a not guilty verdict on those twenty 5 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: nine counts of child endangerment for his role as he 6 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: was called to the scene of the rob Elementary School massacre. 7 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: And with that, everyone, thank you so much for being here. 8 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: He was very, very emotional in this interview. 9 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 2: Ah, you know what, it will get came late. I 10 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 2: don't know how they edited this thing, but I was 11 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 2: expecting to hear more from him. He's sitting there flanked 12 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 2: by his attorneys and they did most of the talking 13 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 2: quite frankly, and he's defiant, he's defending himself. He got 14 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 2: emotional at the end, and look, there are some parts 15 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 2: of that your heart. You're in conflict with this guy. 16 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 3: Because he does stand by his actions. 17 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: And when I say actions, a lot of people would 18 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: say he's inaction that day because prosecutors and obviously they 19 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: pursued these charges against him because they said it was 20 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: his inaction on that day that contributed to the deaths. 21 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 3: Of nineteen children and two teachers. 22 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 1: A jury disagreed with that, but we all, I think, 23 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,039 Speaker 1: at this point, know the story. It took law enforcement 24 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: seventy seven minutes to ultimately confront that gunman, and Gonzalez 25 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 1: was the first, if not one of the first officers 26 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: on the scene that day, and by most accounts people 27 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: who were there, he was on the scene before the 28 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: gunman actually went into rob Elementary school, and that is 29 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: one of the main reasons prosecutors pursued those charges against him. 30 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: But Gonzales defiant is a good word that he was 31 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: defiant in this interview. 32 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 2: Well, I'm defending himself, i should say, because defiant almost 33 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 2: sounds negative. But he has been the public face of 34 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 2: a tragedy. To a certain degree, it's his fault he 35 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 2: did it. I cannot imagine what his life has been 36 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 2: like the past several years. So to a certain degree 37 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 2: he sounded pissed, and that's. 38 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:12,639 Speaker 3: Legitimate, Yeah, and that's fair. 39 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 1: His quote was, you can sit here and tell me 40 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: all you want about what I would have done or 41 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: what you would have done. Until you're in that mix, 42 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: you can't tell me anything. I agree with that, and 43 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: I hear that, and I do agree with that, But 44 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 1: other people would say, but you're a police officer who's 45 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: been trained to handle this exact situation. 46 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 2: Okay, so he's not he wasn't good at his job, 47 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 2: But we kept saying, is that a crime because he 48 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 2: failed or he performed poorly? We all have performed poorly 49 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 2: at some point or some day. He had a bad 50 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 2: day at work, and he had a bad day on 51 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 2: the worst day, he should be fired. But does he 52 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 2: need to go to prison? I don't know where the 53 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 2: line is from a legal standpoint. 54 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, you think about it. 55 00:02:55,360 --> 00:03:00,639 Speaker 1: Police officers, emergency workers, and maybe doctors, surgeons, physicians. Those 56 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: are people where decisions they make on the job literally 57 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: can result in life or death. There are significant consequences 58 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: for folks who work in those industries day in and 59 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: day out. 60 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:16,959 Speaker 2: They call it malpractice, right, maw practice. But how often 61 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 2: are doctors going to jail for killing somebody? 62 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: Right? 63 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: How often are they going to jail? Right? I know 64 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 2: what you're saying, that absolutely is out, that absolutely happens. 65 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 2: I don't. I just don't know the answer legally, But 66 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 2: you can't tell me. And I hear what he's saying. 67 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 2: I have a difficult time listening to him say he 68 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 2: doesn't wish he did something different that day. 69 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, so he did say, And I'll get into the 70 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: exact quote here, because look, he claims that he did 71 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: go inside the school building, but that he retreated because 72 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: he says he received a direct order from his commanding officer. 73 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 3: So here is his quote. 74 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: I did the best that I could with the information 75 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: I was getting. I don't regret it because I took 76 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: an order from my chief at that time. 77 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 2: Okay, That's that's difficult for parents to hear. That's difficult 78 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 2: for community to hear, for a country to hear. He's 79 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 2: that one's tough. Nineteen kids are dead and you were 80 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 2: the first one there, and you don't wish you could 81 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 2: have saved one of them by doing something different. That's uh, dude, 82 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 2: that's tough. 83 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 3: He was playingo to hear. 84 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: It's very tough to hear for the two of us 85 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 1: who don't have children who were in that school at 86 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: that time. Yes, if I heard that and I were 87 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: a parent of one of those kids, that sentence alone 88 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: could send me over the edge. 89 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 2: That's a good way to wait. That that could that 90 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 2: would be the one that it brings it all back 91 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 2: to a certain degree. That's that's tough. I don't know, 92 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 2: and you I didn't. I fast forward far, frankly through 93 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 2: the parts of his attorneys speaking. Did you listen to 94 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 2: that stuff? 95 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 1: I do. 96 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 2: I didn't know if they ever try to cut him 97 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 2: off or say you're saying the wrong thing. I didn't 98 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 2: know what their interaction was. 99 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:52,919 Speaker 1: Well, obviously we got an edited version, right, I didn't 100 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: see the I didn't see the uh, the actual full interview. 101 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: But I can say that their attorney just basically tried 102 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: to turn the tables and say this is all the 103 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 1: prosecutor's fault. They created this narrative, they created this anger 104 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: that should never have been directed at Adrian Gonzales, which 105 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,039 Speaker 1: I kind of disagree with because having been on a 106 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,039 Speaker 1: scene there in Uvaldi, I saw the parent's anger firsthand 107 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 1: at the police officers in real time. I was there, 108 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,279 Speaker 1: I believe within a day of the shooting, and angry 109 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:26,239 Speaker 1: parents were talking to anyone that they could about the 110 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:30,160 Speaker 1: police officer's decision not to go inside, to not confront 111 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 1: that shooter. 112 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 2: How soon, though, did he become the face. I kind 113 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 2: of remember how soon his name and this story started 114 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 2: getting out because he said he is is now. It 115 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 2: was intentional. He was their scape ghost. Yes, here he is, everybody, 116 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 2: this is the guy to be mad at. 117 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: Yes, I don't know the timeline, but his attorney said 118 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: the injustice was in starting by telling the family that 119 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,359 Speaker 1: Adrian was responsible, because he was not. The jury determined 120 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: he was not. They came to the correct verdict. But 121 00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: of course the families don't feel that was correct. That's 122 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: because he says they were told something different. So they're 123 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: blaming the charges. They're blaming prosecutors for all of the 124 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 1: anger to be directed at Officer Gonzales. And to a degree, 125 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: I understand that because he was, he is the name 126 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 1: you now associate. The truth is, as journalists, we have 127 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: shied away from and really stopped putting out the shooter's 128 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: name because we don't want to glorify. We don't want 129 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: to incentivize any troubled person to say, oh well, if 130 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: I go out this way, my name will live an infamy. 131 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: I was on the scene, covered this shooting for days. 132 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,239 Speaker 1: I cannot tell you the name of the shooter because 133 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: we don't say it. But I can tell you the 134 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: name of Officer Adrian Gonzales. 135 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 2: That's interesting, I mean, it's yeah, I mean this is 136 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 2: I don't know the chief's name. Maybe I'll start to 137 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 2: remember that name later. He's going to be tried as well, 138 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,720 Speaker 2: the former you've already school police chief, But Adrian Gonzales 139 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 2: will have to I think I'm not sure which is worse, 140 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 2: the personal hell or the public hell, because listening to 141 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 2: him today he got emotional, yes at the end, talking 142 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 2: about the personal told, not being able to go home 143 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 2: and all that stuff you'll mention in a moment. But 144 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 2: Rome's you have got to from a personal standpoint, it 145 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 2: has got to be difficult to live with what he 146 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 2: has to live with. It didn't come off that way 147 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 2: in the interview. 148 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: See I hear you because and that was the problem 149 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: with that I don't regret it part. I'm curious what 150 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: you think you mentioned? He was flanked by both of 151 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: his lawyers. Right, he has to be concerned about civil 152 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: lawsuits obviously, so does he sort of to protect himself 153 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: legally or even maybe financially. Does he have to double 154 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: down and say I don't regret it because I followed 155 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: an order. 156 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 2: Can I ask is there isn't there something it dimnifies 157 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 2: police officers from being sued civilly? Oh? 158 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 3: You know what that very well. 159 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: I know there is some sort of civil thing in 160 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,239 Speaker 1: the works, but I don't know there's a civil lawsuit, 161 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: but I don't know if it's against the police department itself. 162 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 3: You're right, maybe not individual officers. 163 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if he can. I don't know 164 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 2: what he's facing moving forward, other than for the rest 165 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:18,679 Speaker 2: of his life being the public face and the public blame. 166 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 2: He is the one. This is the guy who folks 167 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 2: say responded, so again, my heart goes out to him 168 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 2: for what he has to do with personally and publicly. 169 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 2: But listening to him today, wash was tough to hear, 170 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 2: Like I didn't hear remorse, sane for the kids. Yeah, 171 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 2: I heard it for what he is dealing with. Now 172 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 2: that makes. 173 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: Sense, yes, because and look even it kind of reads 174 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: from what he said. As soon as that not guilty 175 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: verdict was read, he was asked almost immediately by reporters, 176 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: do you have anything to say to the families that 177 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: would have been an opportunity, that would have been an 178 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 1: opportunity to say something. He said, no, not at this moment. 179 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: And then when he was asked again in this sit 180 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: down interview, this is what he said in this felt 181 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: a little a lot short for me. He said, whatever 182 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: I say to them, meaning the families, I know it's 183 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: not going to ease their pain, but they're always in 184 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: my prayers, you know, so they can start healing. I 185 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: would have liked to hear something more. 186 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 2: Look, it's tough to sit and we can have an 187 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 2: impression of we don't know who this guy, and so 188 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 2: I scanned judge him for the answers and how he 189 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 2: gave them. But just if somebody, I think the youth 190 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 2: said it the best. If you are a parent and 191 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 2: you heard some of this man, if you had anger 192 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 2: at this guy before and then after the verdict and 193 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 2: then after this interview, you gotta be human at some 194 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 2: of the stuff. He said. 195 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, And he was even kind of saying it's not fair. 196 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: It's not fair, and it might not have been fair, 197 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:50,719 Speaker 1: and it might be completely unfair that he was singled out, 198 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: But just to hear him say it, after everything these 199 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: families had been through, he said, when the video started playing, 200 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: I realized they handpicked me. They had an excuse for 201 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: everybody else they did this, did that, you know, but 202 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: I had to do this. 203 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 3: I had to do that. 204 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 1: So he was playing the victim, and look, he very well. 205 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: Maybe in this he may have been the one who 206 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,319 Speaker 1: was victimized legally unfairly. 207 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 3: That's not for me to say. 208 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: But it doesn't sound great to be complaining when so 209 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,599 Speaker 1: many people have lost the unthinkable. 210 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 2: And again I take him at his word for what 211 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 2: he's gone through. Your heart goes out to him again 212 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 2: for a way has to do with publicly and privately, 213 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 2: but Roges he has an opportunity here. There is exactly, 214 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 2: there's a pr problem he thinks he has. You didn't 215 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 2: help it. It just the I know he spoke for 216 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:46,199 Speaker 2: a moment about loving kids and always went to work 217 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 2: with kids, and that came off. But to to when 218 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 2: ask when you got an opportunity here to speak to 219 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 2: these parents, man, how could you just not? 220 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:57,559 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm devastated. 221 00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: I go to Betty's night seeing their little faces and 222 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: it haunts me and I feel I mean, whatever it is, 223 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: but just yeah, you needed a human moment there where 224 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: you wanted. 225 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 3: To say, a human moment. 226 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: Yes, you relate to him and you relate to his pain. 227 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 1: And he didn't give anyone that. So when we come back, 228 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 1: you mentioned he got emotional at the end, we'll talk 229 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 1: about how he's feeling since that acquittal and how he 230 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: says he is now preparing for the next battle. And 231 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,559 Speaker 1: welcome back everyone to this episode of Amy and TJ. 232 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: We are talking about the Uvaldi police officer, the former 233 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: officer who was acquitted this week on twenty nine counts 234 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: of child endangerment for what prosecutor said was in action, 235 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 1: his inaction at the rob Elementary School nearly four years ago. 236 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: And the big headline was that he said on microphone, 237 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: looking back after everything, he has no regrets. He said 238 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,319 Speaker 1: he took an order from his chief at the time 239 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: and he doesn't regret his actions. It was a tough 240 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: thing to hear, and he said it fairly stoically, flanked 241 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: by his attorneys, but he did get emotional towards the 242 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 1: end of the interview when he talked about the personal 243 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 1: toll this is taken on him and his family. He 244 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: says he can never return to Uvaldi and Euvaldi is 245 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: where he was born, where he was raised, and where 246 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: he worked. And he said this through a lot of emotion, 247 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: and this is the part where he got emotional, and 248 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 1: he said, this is a struggle for me, for my family, 249 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: you know, to get up and leave. 250 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 3: It's hard. Did your heart go out to him in 251 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 3: that moment. 252 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 2: From the moment the shooting happened, he did. I've not 253 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:53,439 Speaker 2: had a moment of anger necessarily. I want to direct 254 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 2: towards him, disappointment, disappointment in some of this interview and all. 255 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 2: But he's a human being and he messed up and 256 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 2: people died, and that's but he won't admit that he 257 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:12,680 Speaker 2: he won't. Okay, he's not suggesting any responsibility is one thing, 258 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:18,199 Speaker 2: but to not even say, man, I thought to myself, 259 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 2: if maybe I'd have done this, or maybe I'd have 260 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 2: gone here, or maybe if I would have refused that order, 261 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 2: or maybe if I just would have won. I think 262 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 2: so many times of what I could have done differently 263 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 2: to save one little. 264 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 3: Bukaroo that would have been everything. 265 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,319 Speaker 1: Give me something that would have been everything, to parents 266 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: to hear that he did it. 267 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 2: It's my training. I couldn't see around the building. I 268 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 2: never saw the guy. I saw this woman frantic. They 269 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 2: sounded like excuses, and that doesn't help anybody heal. If 270 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 2: you're not going to get a guilty verdict, give him something. 271 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, just say I'm tortured thinking about what I should 272 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: have done what I could have done, and it keeps 273 00:13:57,840 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 1: me up at night. Just something to let the parents 274 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: know that you feel you feel bad about what happened 275 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: in your role in it. 276 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,559 Speaker 2: Maybe he's done that privately in some private messages. I 277 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 2: don't know if they want to hear from this guy, 278 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 2: but maybe we're saying it here and maybe it's taking 279 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:14,079 Speaker 2: place somewhere. 280 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: Else perhaps, But the family members who showed up in 281 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: court didn't seem to have any warm feelings towards him 282 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: at all. Now, he did say in this interview that 283 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: this was the first of two battles, and he said 284 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: we're going to win the second one. He's talking about 285 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: now these charges that are that have been filed against 286 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: that chief, the former chief Pete Aaron Dondo, and he 287 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: said that he talks with him every single day and 288 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: he believes he is innocent. Now the chief has been 289 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: charged with ten counts of child and najerment. I don't 290 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: know how they came up with these different numbers for 291 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: his response to the shooting. There's no trial date that's 292 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: been set. But I go back to his no regret 293 00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: statement because he said I did the best I could 294 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: with the information I was getting I don't regret it 295 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: because I took an order from my chief, didn't he 296 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: just throw the chief under the bus with that statement 297 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: right there. 298 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 2: I haven't heard the chief thing throughout the story. Maybe 299 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 2: I've just overlooked it, but. 300 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: This is the first I heard it, and I kept 301 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: thinking it was interesting that he then went on to 302 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: say that he doesn't think the chief did anything wrong. 303 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: He thinks the chief is innocent. He speaks with the 304 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: chief every day, but he in that statement, literally blamed 305 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: him for his own. 306 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 2: Sight at the time. Was he But yeah, he's saying, 307 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 2: somebody else told me not to do anything. 308 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: I think that's interesting. Now we also learned a little 309 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: bit about who he is. Fifty two years old, and 310 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: you talked a little bit about this, but he talked 311 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: about working as a school police officer after a decade 312 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: with the Yuvaldi Police Department. But before that, I didn't 313 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 1: realize this. He spent eighteen years as a teacher. For 314 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: whatever reason, that makes what happen feel even worse, Like 315 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: he knew what it was like to be in those classrooms, unarmed, unprepared, 316 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 1: with that responsibility of those children in your classroom, trying 317 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: to protect them. It feels like, Wow, had I known 318 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: he was a teacher for eighteen years before he became 319 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: a police officer, that feels extra disappointing. 320 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 2: You know, it feels like he should have stayed in 321 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 2: the classroom, that maybe he wasn't cut out to be 322 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 2: a police officer. Maybe if he was in a classroom 323 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 2: and the shooting happened, he could have saved more lives. 324 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 2: In that mindset, there was something that as a police officer, 325 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 2: he didn't put himself in harm's way or first, as 326 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 2: the prosecution was arguing, you cannot there is zero chance 327 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 2: or I could predict what I would do in that situation. 328 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 2: But what I can tell you is that as a parent, 329 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 2: I can tell you what I would do because I 330 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 2: would do exactly what those other parents did or had 331 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 2: to physically be restrained to keep from going in there 332 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 2: to say their kids, and the guy with the gun 333 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 2: didn't go. 334 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,640 Speaker 1: And you wonder if Adrian Gonzalez had a child in there, 335 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 1: if he would have acted differently. 336 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 2: The ifs and this and that, and now it's just 337 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 2: your your heart does go out to him and want 338 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:16,880 Speaker 2: to reserve room for that. Don't know him personally at all, 339 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,880 Speaker 2: and really listening to him talk about kids and being 340 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 2: a teacher, sounded like a good dude. 341 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:22,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, he really does. 342 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 2: So this is just awful, and the families seem like 343 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 2: they're getting victimized all over again. Yeah, so it's just awful. 344 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 2: But yeah, the other trial is coming, so they're gonna 345 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 2: have to go through this. 346 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 1: They're gonna have to go through this one more time. 347 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: But you know, just seeing how these other trials have happened, 348 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:45,120 Speaker 1: from the Parkland trial to now this Uvaldi trial, there 349 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: hasn't been any closure for these families where they feel 350 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: like they got some justice because of the lack of protection, 351 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,120 Speaker 1: perhaps we could say for their children. We will see 352 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: what happens when the chief goes to trial, and as 353 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: soon as we have that trial date, any new information 354 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: on this, of course, will bring it to you. But 355 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: in the meantime, thank you so much for listening to us. 356 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 3: Everyone. I'm made me Roebuck alongside T. J. Holmes. We'll 357 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 3: talk to you soon.