WEBVTT - #008 Jason Flom with Douglas DiLosa 0:00:01.960 --> 0:00:06.880 I came from a beautiful neighborhood, had a beautiful life. 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:09.840 I went to sleep because September seventh was the first 0:00:09.880 --> 0:00:11.119 day of my high school year. 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:12.560 I was going to be a senior. 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:14.880 At twenty two, I was set to start college. 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:18.480 I woke up and my life was never the same again. 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:22.560 Cops came out with guns drawn, and I never saw 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:24.160 freedom ever since after that. 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:26.000 It's like roach mode town. 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:32.080 Once you get in, you and I can'tnam. 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:54.120 This is wrong for conviction with Jason Flamm, I'm particularly 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:58.200 thrilled today to have as our guest my good friend 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:00.000 Doug Delosa. Doug, welcome to the show. 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:01.400 Thank you, Thank you, Jason. 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:05.199 Having worked with the Nisis Project now for twenty years 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:07.320 as my role as a founding board member, I thought 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:11.760 I had heard everything until I heard Doug's story. So 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:15.240 you were living in Louisiana, right, I grew up there. 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:21.000 I was born and raised in New Orleans, Louisiana. At 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:23.920 the time, I wasn't living in New Orleans proper, but 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:26.960 I was living just outside of New Orleans in the 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:30.520 city of Kenna. I was married. My wife and I 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:33.119 had been together a little over ten years. We had 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:36.840 two beautiful children, a son who was seven at the 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:39.680 time and a daughter who was five. 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:44.000 Right, So you had a little yard and basically some 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:46.440 neighbors and sort of like we think of in New York, 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:48.040 we think everything's a cull the sack. Right, we have 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:50.600 this strange region America as a series of called the Sack. 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:53.639 But basically, am I paying the right picture? 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:54.200 Yes? 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:55.440 Until it all went wrong? 0:01:56.440 --> 0:02:00.520 Absolutely, until that American dream turned into the American nightmare. 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:03.680 Right, And it's a nightmare of proportions that are impossible 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:09.480 to overstate. You were at home with your wife and kids, right, 0:02:10.280 --> 0:02:11.440 and tell us what happened. 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:16.920 It was a typical Friday evening in our lives. Fast 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:23.320 forward to about two thirty in the morning on Saturday morning, 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:29.679 September twenty seventh, and I woke up, sat up in bed. 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:33.080 I heard a noise. The noise that I was positive 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:39.720 I heard was our pet parrot, squawking and fluttering around 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:44.280 in its cage. I get up from bed, Tell my wife, 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:46.400 I'm going to check on Andy. That was the name 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:46.919 of the bird. 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:48.079 And what was your wife's name. 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:52.840 My wife's name was Glinda. Right, I get up, I 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:55.600 go downstairs. As soon as I got to the foot 0:02:55.639 --> 0:03:02.240 of the stairs. One person came from the side of me, 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:08.120 out of our bathroom area, and this person immediately struck 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:10.919 me with an object that I think was a piece 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:15.600 of mob pandle or a broomstick. Another person came from 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:20.360 the kitchen area and immediately knocked me to the ground, 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:25.240 and the two individuals, I don't know how long it lasted, 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:31.240 probably less than thirty seconds, kicked me, beat me until 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:39.640 I lost consciousness. Sometime later I was regaining consciousness. I'm 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:41.920 not sure how long I laid on the floor, but 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:45.560 I realized thing that sort of frightened me. At first, 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:48.920 I couldn't move my fans and feet were tied behind 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:52.680 my back. I was hog tied, and I was struggling 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:56.920 to gain consciousness and put my thought process together to 0:03:56.960 --> 0:04:01.480 figure out what had happened. After whether it was one 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:06.240 minute or ten minutes, I started calling for my wife. 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:08.160 Didn't get any response at all. 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:11.680 So you're at the foot of the stairs, at the. 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:14.120 Foot of the stairs, inside of what would have been 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:15.280 our den, right. 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:21.600 And she's and she's upstairs, she's upstairs, upstairs in the bedroom. 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:25.480 Getting no response at all from my wife. I called 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:29.880 for my seven year old son, Dennis. And on the 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:35.080 third of the fourth call from my son, I heard 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:41.400 him stirring upstairs. He answered me. Initially, he went into 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:47.080 the master bedroom and I could hear him say, Daddy, 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:51.200 where are you. I see Mommy, but she's sleeping, and 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:57.520 I said, Daddy's downstairs. Please come downstairs. He came downstairs 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:03.400 and I told him, Dennis, two bad men had broken 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:05.520 in the house and they hurt Daddy. But I'm gonna 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:08.600 be all right. I need you to untie my hands. 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:12.719 He couldn't untie my hands because the rope was tied 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:15.720 so tightly. Then I asked him to go in the kitchen, 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:20.080 please get a knife and try to cut the rope. 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:23.919 He came back with a knife, but he was panicking 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:27.520 because he said, Daddy, I'm scared because I can see 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:34.240 four legs under the blind or the curtain in the 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:37.279 kitchen leading out to the patio. I can see people 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:39.680 standing on the patio, and I'm afraid it's the bad 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:44.280 men that hurt you. And I sort of panicked myself then, 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:47.880 and I said, Dennis, pick up the phone. The phone 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:51.919 was right there on the landing of the stairs. I 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:56.839 said dial nine one one, and he immediately picked up 0:05:56.880 --> 0:06:00.359 the phone dial nine one one. He says, what do 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:03.719 I say? And I said, just tell him you need help, 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:10.800 that your daddy's hurt. And you had seen two men 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:14.040 standing on the patio. I don't think he told them 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:18.480 that exact anyway, he got their attention, and within minutes 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:20.280 police arrived on the scene. 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:23.840 And then the police arrive on the scene. And then 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:26.480 this is where things start to really get crazy, right, 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:30.520 because it seems like a pretty simple situation. You're hog tied. Right. 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:33.520 The police enter. The first thing one of them does 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:37.520 is kneel down next to me, ask me if I'm 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:42.200 all right. I guess I basically tell him, yeah, I'm fine. 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:46.880 He doesn't untime, he doesn't do anything, and I hear 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:53.040 another officer goes upstairs, and at that point in time, 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:56.640 the next thing I hear him is kicking a door 0:06:56.720 --> 0:07:00.359 off the hinges. And it turned out that after my 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:05.159 son had gone in the bedroom when I called him 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:08.680 and he found his mother what he described as being asleep, 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:12.920 he must have pulled the door shut behind him and 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:19.040 it just automatically locked. So so he kicks in the door. 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:21.559 He kicks in the door. When he kicks in the door, 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:26.000 he really startles my daughter, who's in the bedroom next door, 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:30.360 and she starts crying hysterically, and at that point then 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:34.480 my son starts crying hysterically. And I'm I'm getting pretty 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:38.760 hysterical myself, laying on the floor. I'm still hogtied, and 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:41.560 I'm telling you what's going on, what's going on? And 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:45.920 policeman is trying to restrain me and keep me on 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:47.000 the ground. 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:47.640 Which is not that hard. 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:50.920 You're but go ahead, and I'm like, and he says, 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:56.440 don't worry, Everything'll be fine, and I mean, within moments, 0:07:56.480 --> 0:08:01.320 it seems like ambulance attendants arrived on the scene. I 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:04.800 couldn't hear exactly what they were being told, but they 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:07.720 were being told something about my wife was in the 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:11.160 bedroom upstairs and that somebody needed to get my daughter 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:15.880 and bring her downstairs, which they did. And again I 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:19.760 don't know how much time was elapsing, but at some 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:23.520 point in time, more police officers arrived on the scene. 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:32.520 Eventually someone cut me free. Moments after they cut me free, 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:37.959 they told me that I would have to be taken 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:42.199 to the emergency room and that the other paramedic team 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:45.319 was working on my wife and i'd see her there, 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:52.000 and also at some point in time they asked me 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:54.559 if there was anybody that they could call to take 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:59.600 care of my children. I'm being treated in the emergency room. 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:05.080 I don't know how much later again, was it ten 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:09.040 or fifteen minutes? Was it an hour later? My brother 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:13.920 and a priest come into the emergency room, and they 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:15.920 informed me that my wife had been killed. 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:19.960 And at this point, you're I mean, You've just been 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:24.520 through an impossibly traumatic experience, and now you're getting hit 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:28.200 with this news, and the whole world must be collapsing 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:29.720 around you. At this point in time. 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:35.720 It was pretty hard to believe what I was being told. 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:38.920 I think I almost went in the shock when they 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:40.959 told me my wife had been killed, And I mean, 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:45.520 I just can't process what I'm being told and come 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:50.320 up with any logical reason why it had happened. 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:56.120 And then you get back with your kids and try 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:59.360 to piece things back together. You had given the police 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:02.520 the information that they wanted right about it, basically the 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:03.760 story that you just told us. 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:09.479 I had recalled everything I could remember to the police. 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:11.240 Except for when you were unconscious, of course, which was 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:15.880 that's the only missing part. And then they were having 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:17.040 trouble solving the case. 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:22.680 Right, There had been considerable criticism of the police department 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:28.040 for not solving having any viable leads in this case, 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:31.800 demanding to know from the police chief what were they doing, 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:35.880 how were they protecting the neighborhood. I had gotten a 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:39.360 little bit vocal, and I probably said on more than 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:42.760 one occasion, all of these stupid son of a bitches 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:45.560 need to be fired because they don't appear to know 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:50.959 what they're doing. Their actions were, in my mind, reminiscent 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:56.439 of the old Keystone cops in slapstick comedies, because they 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:57.880 just didn't appear to be very. 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:03.760 Bright, right, Okay, And so obviously the police, you know, 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:06.920 they're feeling a lot of pressure and they're feeling a 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:09.680 little they're getting their back up about this, right, right. 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:13.680 So then comes the craziest part, in some ways the 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:15.920 craziest part of the story, right, which is that now 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:19.040 we're three months from the day to the crime basically. 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:22.240 Right, we're now the morning of December twenty ninth. 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:26.679 I was it's hot, it's hot, inis, it's. 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:30.760 Very warm in Louisiana. I'm deciding I'm going to put 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:34.720 out the Christmas tree. It's starting. It was a live tree. 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:38.520 It's starting to drop needles all over, so I tell 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:40.880 my children I'll be right back. I'm just going to 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:43.600 put the Christmas tree out for the trash. I've got 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:47.240 a pair of cutoff jeans on, nothing else. And as 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:49.600 I'm putting the tree in the back of my house 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:53.520 by the curve for the trash, I hear Doug Delosa 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:58.120 turn around and I sort of turn around, and I'm 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:04.520 likes in shock. I have no idea how many police 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:08.840 officers are there, at minimum of six, maybe ten or more. 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:14.360 I have many no idea how many news cameras are there. 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:18.199 Probably as many personnel were there as there were police 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:22.640 officers pointing cameras at me, and the police pointing guns 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:26.240 at me, and they say, you know why we're We're 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:28.360 here to rest you for the murder or your wife. 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:33.640 And I'm just like thinking to myself, this can't be true. 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:37.600 You know, this nightmare just keeps getting worse and worse. 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:42.360 I knew that I had been labeled to suspect, but 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:46.360 I never, in my wildest imagination thought that it would 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:50.680 evolve into an arrest. I'm not dressed except for with 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:53.599 a pair of cutoffs on. My children are in their pajamas, 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:57.480 and I asked the one detective, could I please go 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:03.040 dress my children and call somebody to take them well. 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:06.360 As I was changing their clothes, I turned to this 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:09.840 man who couldn't have been more than two to three 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:13.520 feet away from me, standing right in my face, and 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:16.920 I asked him. I said, detective Dote, why are you 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:19.520 doing this to me? Why are you doing this to 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:22.800 my children? You know that I didn't kill my wife. 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:28.600 And this police officer when I asked him that question, 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:32.040 he had the look of a wild man on his face, 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:35.000 and he almost, I don't know how to describe it. 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:41.800 His voice was almost venomous, and he says, man, fuck you, 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:46.240 fuck your children, and fuck that dead wife of yours. 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:49.480 I didn't ask that stupid bitch to die in my city. 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:53.839 And he goes on to say, he says, why should 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:56.080 I give a fuck about you or your children? Do 0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:59.080 you care about me and my children? My job's on 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:03.520 the line, and he said, you have asked that I 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:08.360 be terminated in competence. Well, you know what, I don't 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:11.079 know who did it. Maybe I know you didn't do it, 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:14.200 but I can build the case against you, So you're it. 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:21.440 So you're you know, you go to trial, and well, 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:25.440 they withheld several critical pieces of evidence from the defense, 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:28.080 that which is called the Brady violation, which which would 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:31.920 have excluded you and would have led to you being 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:34.480 found innocent. Do you want to talk about that. 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:38.960 The trial from start to finish, nine days had passed, 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:44.800 and from the very beginning, the two district attorneys prosecuting 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:48.560 me told the jury that they were never going to 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:52.480 hear any direct evidence that tied me to this crime. 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:57.600 That basically what they were trying to convict me on 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:01.000 was a theory of how I did it and why 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:05.120 I did it, And what was going to be important 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:09.920 to the jury to find me guilty was that I 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:15.920 had no evidence to support my story that two black 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:19.600 men broke into my house that night, beat me unconscious, 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:23.840 hogtied me, and at some point in time killed my wife. 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:26.480 Right now, But the reason we know that you couldn't 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:29.160 provide any proof is because they were withholding the proof 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:32.080 that they had. They had the investigators. You didn't have investigators. 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:34.720 They had all the guys sweeping the house and doing 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:36.040 the whole thing exactly. 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:41.160 They were fingerprints found in several places throughout the house 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:45.320 that didn't belong to me, any of my family members, 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:50.360 any of our friends, anyone, any member of the investigative 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:55.040 team that had all been ruled out. And these fingerprints 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:59.760 found throughout the house belonged to someone, but we have 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:01.360 no idea who they belonged to. 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:02.360 But they didn't tell you that. 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:06.960 No, their fingerprint expert committed perjury on the stand when 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:12.360 he said absolutely no other fingerprints were found in the house. 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:14.200 Can we talk about the cab driver for a second, 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:16.440 because that's one to me, that's one that's always stuck 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:18.400 in my mind. It's really you. 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:23.560 Know, sometime after I was arrested, well, actually let's back 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:28.920 up to right after my wife's funeral, three days after 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:33.960 the murder, a taxi driver came forward to the Kent 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:37.840 of Police Department and he said, I think I may 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:42.360 have some testimony that would help you catch the people 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:49.360 who killed this lady, meaning my wife. And as the 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:54.160 story goes in his written deposition to the police, he 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:57.720 was dropping off affair in that neighborhood, which at that 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:02.520 time was exclusively white. There would have been no reason 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:07.919 whatsoever to have seen blacks in that particular neighborhood. 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:08.919 At least aboot three in the morning. 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:11.720 Yeah, least of all at three to four o'clock in 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:14.800 the morning. And he goes on to give in his 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:20.280 written deposition that as he was driving down this one street, 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:25.840 he saw two black men leaving the vicinity of the 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:29.840 front of my house carrying what would have fit the 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:32.400 description of some of the items I told police were 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:35.960 taken from my house. And he says that as his 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:40.600 lights shone on the two men, it appeared that they panicked. 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:45.600 They ran to a silver van that was waiting, and 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:49.160 they sped off in a reckless manner. And he found 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:51.840 that very unusual and thought it was important to bring 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:55.879 that testimony to the police, which he did. 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:58.440 As it was, But they, of course withheld that from 0:17:58.440 --> 0:17:59.840 the defense illegally. 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:02.800 They withheld that and said that there was nobody had 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:09.840 ever seen anything regarding any black men in that neighborhood, 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:13.159 much less in the vicinity of my home. Now fast 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:17.240 forward another six to seven months. I'm at trial. This 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:22.680 good citizen is reading in the newspaper and hearing on 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:26.560 the TV that I'm undergoing a trial for the murder 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:29.479 of my wife. Well, he just doesn't understand, and at 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:32.080 this point he doesn't trust the police because he's already 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:35.040 gone to the police twice. So he shows up at 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:38.679 the courthouse somehow manages to talk to one of the 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:42.880 two or maybe perhaps both, of the district attorneys who 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:46.400 were trying the case, and he tells his story to them, 0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:51.960 and they very nonchalantly brush him off and said, oh, 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:58.359 don't worry. We presented your written statement to mister Dolosa's attorney. 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:05.120 He reviewed, but in light of the overwhelming evidence against him, 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:08.520 he knows that your testimony wouldn't do any good, so 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:11.320 he decided not to call you as a witness, which 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:14.119 was a total lie. They hadn't given any of that 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:18.560 information to my attorney. And one of the biggest parts 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:21.880 of their case was over and over again they repeated 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:27.600 to the jury, no one repeat, no one saw anything 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:32.680 suspicious in that neighborhood that night, much less two black men. 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:36.399 And that's why you must find mister Dolosa guilty because 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:37.119 he was lying. 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:54.160 The jury comes back, they find you guilty and sends 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:56.760 you to life in prison. Now, the only thing that 0:19:56.800 --> 0:19:59.000 can make it worse is they're going to send you 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:03.320 to what is arguably the worst prison in America in Louisiana, 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:05.639 which is this date, which has the highest prison population. 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:09.840 By far, Louisiana does have three times higher rate of 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:12.199 incarceration than the rest of the country per capita, and 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:14.600 of course America has a five times higher rate than 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:17.480 the rest of the world. So it's off the chain. 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:20.879 But now you're being sent to Angola prison farm, and 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:23.640 let's talk about that. Well. 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:29.040 Arriving at the Louisiana State Penitentiary, which they call Angola, 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:33.360 it was beyond culture shock. I didn't know what to expect. 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:38.639 I'd heard numerous rumors that scared the hell out of me. 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:43.200 But I arrived at Angola and one of the first 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:48.480 things that I guess was really strange was they put 0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:51.560 you in an initial classification to decide where you're going 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:56.400 to be housed. And I'm going before these classification offices 0:20:57.600 --> 0:20:59.679 and they decide that they're going to put me in 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:04.800 a work cell block for my protection rather than general population. 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:08.520 And then they make a statement that's pretty odd. They 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:11.639 said that they don't have a white cell available to 0:21:11.720 --> 0:21:15.840 put me in, so I'd have to be sent to 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:21.639 a security cell while they prepare a white cell. And 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:24.440 I'm like, what the hell is a white cell. At 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:29.080 that time, they still believed in segregating the white and 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:34.880 black prisoners at Angola, they didn't mix white and blacks 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:41.520 in the same cell. But my very first night in Angola, 0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:45.800 I'm in a disciplinary tier and I'm in a cell, 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:52.600 and there's someone down the tier in another cell acting up, 0:21:53.200 --> 0:21:56.439 and at some point in time, he throws human waste 0:21:56.520 --> 0:22:00.680 on a security guard, and I'm just like, scared shitless. 0:22:00.760 --> 0:22:05.679 I don't know what's going on. Their guards would appear 0:22:05.720 --> 0:22:10.800 to be swat uniforms and riot shields and everything coming 0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:15.399 down the tier. They're dragging this person out by force. 0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:18.640 They're beaten him, and I guess I'm curious. I'm sort 0:22:18.680 --> 0:22:22.520 of looking, you know, I guess maybe I should have 0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:25.119 known better than to try to look. When one of 0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:29.240 the gods saw me looking, He's like, what the fuck 0:22:29.240 --> 0:22:32.240 are you looking at? He turns around and sprayed me 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:36.119 with a pepper spray of mace for about twenty thirty 0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:39.919 seconds wow. And the only thing I knew was my 0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:43.359 lungs were burning, my face was burning, and it was 0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:46.080 sort of like a welcomed Angola. That was my first 0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:47.800 night in the penitentiary. 0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:51.920 So and then things get even crazier. So you end 0:22:52.000 --> 0:22:55.240 up working on a chain gang is that right. 0:22:55.320 --> 0:22:58.480 I mean, I don't know that chain gang is a 0:22:58.480 --> 0:23:03.160 little bit misleading because we're not actually linked by chains. 0:23:02.640 --> 0:23:05.000 Right, But it's a term that applies. 0:23:04.600 --> 0:23:12.880 To it's a group of inmates working under the supervision 0:23:13.080 --> 0:23:14.560 of gun guards on. 0:23:14.520 --> 0:23:16.320 Horses in the swamps. 0:23:17.080 --> 0:23:20.919 It could be swamps, it could be anywhere on the farm. 0:23:21.640 --> 0:23:24.240 Here's a clip where Burl camee the warden talks about 0:23:24.240 --> 0:23:26.920 the infamous history of Louisiana State Penitentiary. 0:23:27.160 --> 0:23:29.520 The work in the farm is critical, Angela. That's what 0:23:29.560 --> 0:23:32.320 it is. It's a plantation prison. It was that way 0:23:32.440 --> 0:23:35.040 throughout its entire history, so very important that we have 0:23:35.119 --> 0:23:38.000 agriculture here on the farm that provides work for the inmate, 0:23:38.080 --> 0:23:40.240 which you know is good for them because they have 0:23:40.320 --> 0:23:43.080 something to do to use after energy and so forth. 0:23:43.400 --> 0:23:48.199 It turned out that I was working in what they 0:23:48.240 --> 0:23:51.280 called camp A Line twenty one under one of the 0:23:51.280 --> 0:23:59.679 most vicious inhuman farm bosses that Angola had at the time, 0:24:00.720 --> 0:24:05.199 and I found it difficult at my age and my 0:24:05.320 --> 0:24:08.920 physical condition to keep up with the average man who 0:24:09.040 --> 0:24:12.880 was only in their early twenties. And I'm thirty seven, 0:24:13.000 --> 0:24:16.280 thirty eight years old at this time, in horrible shape, 0:24:16.920 --> 0:24:21.600 but one of the things that this particular field foreman 0:24:22.480 --> 0:24:27.240 used to enjoy doing to torment the people under his supervision. 0:24:28.560 --> 0:24:32.480 He would put us, say on the levee cutting high 0:24:32.520 --> 0:24:36.080 grass with what they called the ditchbank blade, which is 0:24:36.119 --> 0:24:39.760 it's impossible to describe on air, but it's this huge, 0:24:39.840 --> 0:24:44.439 heavy cutting blade. And what he would do is they 0:24:44.520 --> 0:24:48.600 might have been close to one hundred men in the line. 0:24:48.680 --> 0:24:52.000 He would put us up on the levee and they 0:24:52.040 --> 0:24:55.200 would be two inmates with a water bucket, and he'd 0:24:55.240 --> 0:24:58.600 tell the people with the water bucket, I want y'all 0:24:58.600 --> 0:25:02.760 to move about a mile down on the road with 0:25:02.960 --> 0:25:06.920 the gun guard supervising you. And he said, y'all keep 0:25:06.960 --> 0:25:11.080 moving that water bucket and don't let anybody have water, 0:25:11.119 --> 0:25:16.000 because it says until ten people pass out from the heat, 0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:20.119 I'm not letting anybody drink water. And that was a 0:25:20.160 --> 0:25:23.840 typical day working for this man mac Shaw, where he 0:25:23.880 --> 0:25:28.119 would see people pass out fall out, as we'd say, 0:25:28.520 --> 0:25:33.480 from heat stroke, heat exhaustion, from lack of water, and 0:25:33.640 --> 0:25:37.440 once whatever number he arbitrarily determined he wanted to pass 0:25:37.480 --> 0:25:39.800 out and be carried off in the back of a 0:25:39.880 --> 0:25:46.320 truck for disciplinary purposes. Then he'd let everybody else have 0:25:46.400 --> 0:25:47.480 a drink of water. 0:25:48.200 --> 0:25:51.440 And then then things got really crazy because at one 0:25:51.520 --> 0:25:54.159 point you were singled out. 0:25:54.400 --> 0:25:56.879 It was at more than one point. I mean, it 0:25:57.000 --> 0:26:02.040 seemed it was something that happened day after day every 0:26:02.040 --> 0:26:06.480 time I'd go in the field. I never had the 0:26:06.560 --> 0:26:08.919 distinction of being one of the people. I guess I 0:26:09.000 --> 0:26:12.520 was fortunate enough that I could go without drinking water 0:26:12.600 --> 0:26:15.400 longer than other people that I might not be one 0:26:15.400 --> 0:26:17.840 of the first five to ten people to pass out 0:26:17.880 --> 0:26:23.080 from heatstroke and lack of water. But I certainly wasn't 0:26:23.160 --> 0:26:26.439 keeping up with the work quote according to this field forman, 0:26:26.960 --> 0:26:30.360