1
00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:07,640
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece.

2
00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,720
Speaker 2: Have you ever stayed in a hotel and the cleaners

3
00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:21,400
Speaker 2: come while you're still in there and they knock on

4
00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:23,920
Speaker 2: the door or just come in, and then they leave

5
00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,840
Speaker 2: and wait for you to get out. Let me tell

6
00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:32,479
Speaker 2: you what happened at the Soho fifty four hotel.

7
00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:38,400
Speaker 3: The cleaners go in the room.

8
00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:42,640
Speaker 2: There's a do not disturb sign on the door, but

9
00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:46,520
Speaker 2: it's been there for a while, So the maid goes

10
00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:53,680
Speaker 2: in and she sees a lady sleeping, or so she thinks.

11
00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,520
Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for

12
00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,120
Speaker 2: being with us here at Crime Stories and on Serious

13
00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:07,040
Speaker 2: XM one eleven. Take a listen to our friend Dave

14
00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:08,440
Speaker 2: Mack at Crime Online.

15
00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,800
Speaker 4: At the Soho fifty four hotel, a hotel maid goes

16
00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:14,880
Speaker 4: into room eleven oh nine, even though there is a

17
00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,959
Speaker 4: do not disturb sign hanging on the door. The maid

18
00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,480
Speaker 4: walks in and sees what she thinks is a person

19
00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:24,120
Speaker 4: asleep under a blanket. She quickly quietly backs out of

20
00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,520
Speaker 4: the room and reports to the manager what she has seen,

21
00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:28,480
Speaker 4: a woman asleep under a blanket.

22
00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,800
Speaker 2: All of you legal legals know full well what's coming next.

23
00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:36,480
Speaker 2: Joining me in All Star Panelty makes sense of what

24
00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:38,720
Speaker 2: we know right now. But first I want to go

25
00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:44,480
Speaker 2: to investigative reporter for dailymail dot com Joe Hutchinson joining

26
00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,119
Speaker 2: us out of this jurisdiction in New York.

27
00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:48,960
Speaker 3: Joe, thank you for being with us.

28
00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:55,840
Speaker 2: So it's my understanding that about the time the first

29
00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:02,160
Speaker 2: maid goes into room eleven o nine, the staff, the

30
00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:06,480
Speaker 2: hotel staff of Soho twenty four in the lobby sees

31
00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:11,560
Speaker 2: something that they believed to be very unusual. What did

32
00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:15,400
Speaker 2: they observe In the lobby of SOHO fifty four?

33
00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:22,120
Speaker 5: Hotel staff observed a man wearing leggings, women's leggings walking

34
00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,280
Speaker 5: through the hotel lobby exiting the building.

35
00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,359
Speaker 2: And that alone, a man wearing leggings would not pique

36
00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:33,359
Speaker 2: my interest at all. But what was unusual about this

37
00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:35,200
Speaker 2: man wearing leggings.

38
00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,600
Speaker 5: I think the CCTV shoode you can Kenny see it.

39
00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,720
Speaker 5: So it's very strange, it's not it's very outsetting off them.

40
00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,600
Speaker 5: And then also I'm aware that hotel staff phoned men's

41
00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:48,119
Speaker 5: trousers in the room.

42
00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:50,720
Speaker 3: Joe Hutchinson joining us from dailymil dot com.

43
00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,880
Speaker 2: You're absolutely correct. There is something very off putting about that.

44
00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,840
Speaker 2: Look at it, shell nutt you're not just a high

45
00:02:57,880 --> 00:02:59,840
Speaker 2: profile lawyer joining us.

46
00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:01,600
Speaker 3: From the shell Nut firm.

47
00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,160
Speaker 2: You are twenty seven years on Metro major case.

48
00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,359
Speaker 3: There's something very wrong with that.

49
00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:11,720
Speaker 2: Let's just say they're way too tight and too many

50
00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,040
Speaker 2: crevices on this guy.

51
00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:15,120
Speaker 3: It doesn't match.

52
00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:22,120
Speaker 2: He's dressed like it's got on a windbreaker and a

53
00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:27,480
Speaker 2: clue neck sweater. He's wearing a hat, shoes, but then

54
00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:34,760
Speaker 2: he's wearing these incredibly thin, ill fitting, super tight tights,

55
00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:40,960
Speaker 2: almost see throwable tights. It doesn't fit together. Any trained

56
00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:42,880
Speaker 2: observer would think, okay, that's weird.

57
00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:44,160
Speaker 3: Shell Nut.

58
00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:44,839
Speaker 6: Yeah.

59
00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,560
Speaker 7: So you know this is something that absolutely catch your attention.

60
00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:49,640
Speaker 7: It's something where you would have to wonder, is this

61
00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:54,240
Speaker 7: person you know mentally all there is this person under

62
00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:56,600
Speaker 7: the influence of some type of alcohol or drugs. You know,

63
00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:58,600
Speaker 7: what will cause this person to dress like this? And

64
00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:00,880
Speaker 7: it's certainly going to be something that would assertation because

65
00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:02,720
Speaker 7: it is outside the normal of what you would see.

66
00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:07,400
Speaker 2: Tom Smith joining me former NYPD detective now co hosts

67
00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:14,400
Speaker 2: gold Shields podcast. Tom the guy may look odd in

68
00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:18,599
Speaker 2: the let me just say, ill fitting ladies ties, but

69
00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:24,240
Speaker 2: he's acting perfectly normally, So it's just a fashion felony

70
00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:29,080
Speaker 2: at this juncture. He's walking across the lobby in an

71
00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,320
Speaker 2: odd get up, but he's acting normally.

72
00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:33,560
Speaker 8: Well, that's exactly right.

73
00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:35,200
Speaker 6: And he's in New York.

74
00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,320
Speaker 8: And through my thirty years in the NYPD, I've seen

75
00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,360
Speaker 8: some wild get ups walking around the streets in New York.

76
00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,480
Speaker 8: And if you're doing it in front of everyone and

77
00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:48,520
Speaker 8: acting normal and just walking, you're going to fit in.

78
00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:50,919
Speaker 8: You're going to look like everybody else, especially if he

79
00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,800
Speaker 8: doesn't do anything else to bring attention to himself, but

80
00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,560
Speaker 8: just walking. You know, he's taking advantage of what New

81
00:04:57,680 --> 00:04:59,359
Speaker 8: York City has made up of, well.

82
00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:03,440
Speaker 2: Truer words never spoken. I raised the twins there for

83
00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,800
Speaker 2: several years before we moved, and this would have been,

84
00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:11,400
Speaker 2: you know, a day in the park with the guy dressed

85
00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,200
Speaker 2: oddly but acting normally.

86
00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,080
Speaker 3: Okay, So this is what I know. Back to Joe.

87
00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:20,640
Speaker 2: Hutchinson, investigative reporter, dailymail dot com. They notice him walking by,

88
00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:25,719
Speaker 2: nobody thinks anything of it. Then either the same maid

89
00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:30,599
Speaker 2: or another maid goes back to room eleven oh nine.

90
00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:32,120
Speaker 3: What happens?

91
00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,599
Speaker 5: So who in the room. They go into the room

92
00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,760
Speaker 5: and they find this woman on the floor covering on

93
00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:43,600
Speaker 5: a blanket, and they also find a broken iron, and

94
00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,159
Speaker 5: we believe that the ions can be bloodied as well.

95
00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,240
Speaker 5: And then obviously police are called to the scene.

96
00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:57,839
Speaker 2: Wait, I believe, sir, you are missing a very critical clue. Yes,

97
00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,599
Speaker 2: they see the sleeping woman and of course I'm using

98
00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:06,040
Speaker 2: air quotes still asleep under a blanket, which I'm gonna

99
00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:10,479
Speaker 2: circle back to Tom Smith and Karen Stark and doctor

100
00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:14,240
Speaker 2: Hamward Robin about staging a crime scene. They find the

101
00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:19,440
Speaker 2: woman asleep under a blanket. They find, correctly is Joe

102
00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:25,039
Speaker 2: Hutchinson described a broken iron, not a curling iron, an

103
00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:29,000
Speaker 2: iron that you iron closed, used to iron closed, a

104
00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:34,400
Speaker 2: broken iron with blood on it. And they find one

105
00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,480
Speaker 2: more thing next to the body, Joe Hutchinson.

106
00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,960
Speaker 5: What man'sses that also bloodsteins?

107
00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:49,520
Speaker 2: Very important critical fact. Man's trousers covered in blood. Uh,

108
00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,520
Speaker 2: correct me if I'm wrong, Tom Smith. But two plus

109
00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:54,360
Speaker 2: two still.

110
00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:56,280
Speaker 3: Equals four, right, Yes it does.

111
00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:00,640
Speaker 2: So they've got the surveillance video of a I'm walking

112
00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,040
Speaker 2: out and kind of sheer women's tides and the rest

113
00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:05,480
Speaker 2: is dressed like a regular guy.

114
00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:08,400
Speaker 3: Then they find a.

115
00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:13,520
Speaker 2: Sleeping lady upstairs next to an iron and man's pants

116
00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:16,840
Speaker 2: covered in blood, and could you tell me the condition

117
00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,400
Speaker 2: Joe Hutchinson of the sleeping woman.

118
00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,440
Speaker 5: She was found dead one post stroll into the head.

119
00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,760
Speaker 5: They've found pieces of plastic embedded in a scupe as well.

120
00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,960
Speaker 3: Pieces of plastic. Interesting.

121
00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,120
Speaker 2: I wonder if that's plastic from the iron itself or

122
00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:35,640
Speaker 2: some other form of plastic.

123
00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:37,000
Speaker 3: Tom hutcheson.

124
00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,400
Speaker 2: Any inside information you could give me about the plastic

125
00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,960
Speaker 2: found embedded in the victim's head right over.

126
00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,800
Speaker 5: Not exactly one hundred percent sure where the plastic gets

127
00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,080
Speaker 5: came from, but now broken iron. Maybe there's been some

128
00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:56,560
Speaker 5: dislodged pikies left there were not sure yet not being

129
00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:57,040
Speaker 5: made clear.

130
00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:59,680
Speaker 2: The reason I'm asking is I want to go to

131
00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,120
Speaker 2: dot com. Howard Robin joining us from La Jolla, California,

132
00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:08,760
Speaker 2: San Diego, forensic pathologist at LJ Pathology Consultants. Doctor Robin,

133
00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:10,520
Speaker 2: thank you so much for being with us. This is

134
00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:14,960
Speaker 2: taking me back to my very first homicide I ever

135
00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:16,760
Speaker 2: tried in front of a jury.

136
00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:18,360
Speaker 3: And when I opened the.

137
00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:21,320
Speaker 2: File, the first thing I saw, and it shouldn't have

138
00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,680
Speaker 2: been there for anyone to see that opened the file

139
00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:28,640
Speaker 2: and could look over my shoulder was a polar autopsy photo,

140
00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,280
Speaker 2: and I remember as I prepped for the trial, going

141
00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,680
Speaker 2: to the morgue and saying, what are these?

142
00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:38,800
Speaker 3: I got on the inside of.

143
00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:42,360
Speaker 2: Her mouth, on her lips, and it was plastic because

144
00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:47,480
Speaker 2: she had been asphyxiated with one of those clear laundry bags.

145
00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:51,240
Speaker 3: And as she tried to breathe, she.

146
00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:58,000
Speaker 2: Inhaled the plastic bag so ferociously trying to live that

147
00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,960
Speaker 2: the plastic stuck to her mouth and the inside of

148
00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:02,800
Speaker 2: her nostrils.

149
00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,440
Speaker 3: Plastic on the victim's mouth.

150
00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:12,080
Speaker 2: Now we hear doctor Howard Robin about a broken iron

151
00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:16,920
Speaker 2: with blood on it and the woman hit so hard

152
00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,880
Speaker 2: in the head that there are pieces of plastic embedded

153
00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:23,800
Speaker 2: in her skin and scalp.

154
00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,199
Speaker 3: What's your opinion, doctor, She was.

155
00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:30,880
Speaker 6: Hit with an iron that has plastic mulling on the outside,

156
00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:35,640
Speaker 6: and it was her head was struck with such force

157
00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:40,679
Speaker 6: that the plastic broke off and embedded in her skull,

158
00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,960
Speaker 6: as described in the news reports.

159
00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:49,760
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to figure out how much force would

160
00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:54,200
Speaker 2: be required to actually break the iron.

161
00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:56,480
Speaker 3: On this woman's head.

162
00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:01,560
Speaker 6: Only be able to say significant force. And it's not

163
00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:10,119
Speaker 6: uncommon for homicides to the secondary to blunt force trauma

164
00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:15,319
Speaker 6: to the head, and that it could either be from

165
00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:20,080
Speaker 6: an object such as an iron or blunt force trauma

166
00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:25,160
Speaker 6: to the head can occur with fists or kicking, or

167
00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,960
Speaker 6: an individual throne to the floor or against the wall.

168
00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:34,559
Speaker 6: But in this particular case, you have the object, the iron.

169
00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:39,400
Speaker 6: The iron has blood on it, and in all likelihood

170
00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:46,240
Speaker 6: that was the object that caused the blunt force trauma

171
00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:51,920
Speaker 6: to the head and led to the bleeding, and the

172
00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:57,800
Speaker 6: bleeding led to blood on the trousers of the perpetrator.

173
00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,720
Speaker 2: You know, Karen Star is joining me in addition to

174
00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:05,240
Speaker 2: our other All Star panel guests, renowned TV and radio

175
00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:09,680
Speaker 2: trauma expert psychologists consultant at Karenstark dot com. That's Karen

176
00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:11,439
Speaker 2: with a sea, Karen.

177
00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:14,920
Speaker 3: The rage that.

178
00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:21,880
Speaker 2: Must have accompanied this attack to be so angry and

179
00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,680
Speaker 2: so full of hate that you actually break an iron

180
00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:29,559
Speaker 2: on an unarmed woman's head.

181
00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:33,840
Speaker 9: Without a doubt. Nancy, this is such a disorganized guy

182
00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,840
Speaker 9: in pulsis. You can just tell them because there's a

183
00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,439
Speaker 9: lot about the scene that doesn't make sense. He bothers

184
00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,679
Speaker 9: to put on these types so he can walk around

185
00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:46,800
Speaker 9: in New York City and not be seen with bloody pants,

186
00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,520
Speaker 9: but that's evidence. And then he puts a cover over

187
00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,760
Speaker 9: the body, and that would lead me to believe that

188
00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,120
Speaker 9: he wants somebody to enter the room and think that

189
00:11:56,200 --> 00:12:01,079
Speaker 9: there's just a person sleeping there. And then this rage,

190
00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:05,240
Speaker 9: this horrible rage that's coming out and killing the person,

191
00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:07,880
Speaker 9: which leads you to believe that this is not the

192
00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,080
Speaker 9: first time he's done something like this. But it's so

193
00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:15,199
Speaker 9: impulsive and disorganized, it's pretty unusual, you know what.

194
00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:17,959
Speaker 2: It's reminding me of Karen Stark. And you were with

195
00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:23,239
Speaker 2: me when this happened. You know, my longtime friend and colleague.

196
00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:27,120
Speaker 2: Even though he's a defense attorney, he's a renowned defense

197
00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:29,120
Speaker 2: attorney in the California jurisdiction.

198
00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:31,600
Speaker 3: Daniel Horowitz, I do, yes.

199
00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,480
Speaker 2: I was out in California and you were recovering it

200
00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,920
Speaker 2: for me with me here in New York when Scott

201
00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:45,360
Speaker 2: Peterson went to trial, and I had dinner with Daniel

202
00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:51,079
Speaker 2: and his wife, Pam. The next day or a few

203
00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:55,600
Speaker 2: days later, I got a call from Daniel Horowitz in

204
00:12:55,720 --> 00:13:02,360
Speaker 2: police custody. His wife had been brutally murdered. Well, of course,

205
00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:07,199
Speaker 2: I need Daniel Harwitz had nothing to do with it.

206
00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:11,200
Speaker 2: It was a very bloody crime scene, and I was

207
00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:16,280
Speaker 2: talking to him privately. I was at work at hl N,

208
00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,319
Speaker 2: and I left the makeup room and was talking to

209
00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:22,320
Speaker 2: him on the cell phone and I said, well, Daniel,

210
00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:26,480
Speaker 2: just tell me anything you can tell me about the scene.

211
00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:31,640
Speaker 2: Was anything taken? I've heard no? And he went, just

212
00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:39,000
Speaker 2: one thing, my blue jeans. Daniel Horwitz is very thin.

213
00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:45,200
Speaker 2: He's about five seven or eight. And I remember I

214
00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,319
Speaker 2: felt a cold chill go down me because I thought,

215
00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:54,160
Speaker 2: why would the killer take nothing except your genes? Were

216
00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,480
Speaker 2: you wearing your jens and you were you wearing something

217
00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:59,800
Speaker 2: else and changed into your genes because.

218
00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:00,720
Speaker 3: Your clothes were bloody.

219
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,800
Speaker 2: I'm like, don't tell anybody those jeans are missing.

220
00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,559
Speaker 3: For Pete's sake. Our crops are gonna think you did it.

221
00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:12,440
Speaker 2: And change from the bloody clothes into the clean jeans,

222
00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:16,520
Speaker 2: and I I just faild to horrible heaviness. Why would

223
00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:22,200
Speaker 2: someone take the jens well? As it turned out, of course,

224
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:28,520
Speaker 2: Daniel Horowitz, who was in deep, deep grief so in

225
00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:33,000
Speaker 2: love with his wife, We find out that the purp,

226
00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,840
Speaker 2: while he couldn't really squeeze into the genes that well,

227
00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:41,680
Speaker 2: was a very thin teen that lived in the neighborhood,

228
00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:47,960
Speaker 2: and because of a screw up in the mail, Daniel's wife,

229
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:52,520
Speaker 2: Pam Vitale, had gotten info in the mail about hydroponic

230
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:57,400
Speaker 2: pot farming, and that's what he, the defendant, was doing,

231
00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,200
Speaker 2: and he had to murder her because he thought she

232
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:01,120
Speaker 2: was onto it.

233
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:02,080
Speaker 3: See what I mean.

234
00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:06,320
Speaker 2: My point is he left the scene in Daniel's blue

235
00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:12,280
Speaker 2: jeans because his clothes were so covered in blood. Do

236
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,400
Speaker 2: you see what I'm saying, Karen Stark? Someone that is

237
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:20,600
Speaker 2: so cold and calculated they know they've got to stage

238
00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:24,680
Speaker 2: the scene and change their clothes. Ron and hell DYLASKI

239
00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:26,440
Speaker 2: just f y, I go ahead.

240
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,880
Speaker 9: That he did this in the scene with Daniel Harwitz.

241
00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:33,280
Speaker 9: This kid did it just so that he wouldn't be discovered,

242
00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:37,160
Speaker 9: that he wouldn't he was willing to kill someone, actually

243
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:41,240
Speaker 9: take a life, so he wouldn't be discovered by the

244
00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,960
Speaker 9: police that he was doing this with the farming. And

245
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,800
Speaker 9: it's just it's somebody who has so much.

246
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:52,800
Speaker 2: Read rage yes, rage, yes, but angry like a fox,

247
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,840
Speaker 2: also wildly and cunning at the same time as a

248
00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:00,440
Speaker 2: blinding rage because he thought to stay he's just seeing,

249
00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:04,280
Speaker 2: I mean, shall not staging the scene. It could be

250
00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,760
Speaker 2: making a scene look as if the victim had committed suicide,

251
00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,760
Speaker 2: wiping the gun and putting it into victim's hands. It

252
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,880
Speaker 2: could be covering the body to make it look like

253
00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:16,600
Speaker 2: she's sleeping, so.

254
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,000
Speaker 3: There would be a delay in catching the perp.

255
00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,960
Speaker 7: Yes, no, yes, I agree one hundred percent. You know,

256
00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,840
Speaker 7: normally when someone stages a scene, okay, it is for

257
00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:28,960
Speaker 7: one of a couple of purposes. It's to throw off investigators,

258
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,440
Speaker 7: whether it's in the initial investigation, or to give time

259
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,880
Speaker 7: to escape. It can be for some type of perversion

260
00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:39,200
Speaker 7: that they have. It can be to shock the investigators,

261
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,520
Speaker 7: to get some type of continued enjoyment out of this

262
00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:46,200
Speaker 7: scene because the investigators or the people finding the victim

263
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,320
Speaker 7: are so shocked by it. But yes, I agree that

264
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,840
Speaker 7: staging the scene for this guy to have more time

265
00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,080
Speaker 7: to get away could be one. But there could be

266
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,520
Speaker 7: several reasons also that he staged the scene as well,

267
00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,000
Speaker 7: such as such as such as getting some type of

268
00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:03,080
Speaker 7: sexual perversion out of this, such as trying to get

269
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,560
Speaker 7: a reaction out of the investigators who were to find

270
00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,000
Speaker 7: or look at this body. So it could be it

271
00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:10,800
Speaker 7: certainly could be, and likely was that he was buying

272
00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:13,159
Speaker 7: some time to get away, but it also could be

273
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,159
Speaker 7: that he's getting some type of pleasure out of this

274
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:16,520
Speaker 7: after he's already left.

275
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:18,639
Speaker 2: You know what, sometimes I think you and I have

276
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,879
Speaker 2: been hanging around criminals too long if you think somebody's

277
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:26,160
Speaker 2: getting off on beating a woman dead with an iron

278
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,600
Speaker 2: and then wearing her leggings. But I'm not saying that

279
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:34,080
Speaker 2: you're internally wrong. The story doesn't end there. Now, Remember

280
00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:40,119
Speaker 2: this is in New York City. Now, thank Arizona. Listen

281
00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:41,360
Speaker 2: to our friend Dave Mack.

282
00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:42,280
Speaker 3: At crime Online.

283
00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,000
Speaker 4: A man wearing women's leggings is seen walking through the

284
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:47,159
Speaker 4: lobby of the hotel as he exits onto the streets

285
00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,480
Speaker 4: of Manhattan, purchasing a plane ticket from New York to Arizona.

286
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,919
Speaker 4: Rad Almansorry is in Phoenix, Arizona, when he stabs a

287
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:57,760
Speaker 4: woman during a failed carjacking attempt on February seventeenth. The

288
00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,760
Speaker 4: next day, February eighteenth, around eight thirty eight, in surprise Arizona,

289
00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:05,320
Speaker 4: Almonsory attacks a McDonald's employee in a bathroom stall in

290
00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,359
Speaker 4: an attempted rape, but she screams, so he stabs her

291
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,040
Speaker 4: and flees the scene on foot. Police arrive and the

292
00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,600
Speaker 4: description of Almonsori has put out over police radios. In minutes,

293
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,840
Speaker 4: a man matching his description steals a car Scott Stale

294
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,840
Speaker 4: police see the stolen vehicle with Almonsori behind the wheel

295
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,760
Speaker 4: and pull him over. Almonsuri has taken into custody. Read

296
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:24,760
Speaker 4: his Miranda rights.

297
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,879
Speaker 2: Joe Hutchinson joining us from dailymail dot com. Isn't it

298
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:33,840
Speaker 2: true that as soon as this mother's body is found

299
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:38,520
Speaker 2: under a blanket in Soho fifty four in Manhattan, police

300
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:44,040
Speaker 2: try to track the suspect's movements through the victim's credit

301
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,600
Speaker 2: cards and her Metro card.

302
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,480
Speaker 5: Yeah. Police informed those that part of the investigation was

303
00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,760
Speaker 5: treason has credit card usage which has been used through

304
00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:59,200
Speaker 5: the metal system. And after four days he puck just

305
00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:00,560
Speaker 5: the plane ticket to Arizona.

306
00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,440
Speaker 3: And so the.

307
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:08,360
Speaker 2: Guy is so cold, he brutalizes the woman. I'm sure

308
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,040
Speaker 2: he raped her. Uh, then brutalized her, leaves her dad

309
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:18,159
Speaker 2: wears her clothes, then he uses her metro card and

310
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:18,960
Speaker 2: credit card.

311
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:33,880
Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace.

312
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:41,880
Speaker 2: To Thomas Smith, former NYPD detective, host of gold Shields podcast,

313
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,760
Speaker 2: which is awesome by the way, Thomas Smith explain to

314
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,360
Speaker 2: everybody that doesn't have to take the subway every day.

315
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:49,160
Speaker 3: What is a metro card.

316
00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:52,080
Speaker 8: A metro card is basically a credit card for the subway.

317
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,679
Speaker 8: It's you just swipe it. You have a certain amount

318
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,280
Speaker 8: on your card that you can up, you know, by month,

319
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:00,560
Speaker 8: and it's a simple swipe and you go through the

320
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:02,440
Speaker 8: turnstile to get on whatever trade you want.

321
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,359
Speaker 2: And you know, if you live there, you got to

322
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,560
Speaker 2: know how to use a subway. My twins, David I,

323
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:10,960
Speaker 2: all use a subway because you can either use a

324
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,080
Speaker 2: subway or you can take a cab or a bus

325
00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,600
Speaker 2: that will take you an hour to get across town.

326
00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,679
Speaker 2: You might hoof it and get there faster than cab,

327
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,960
Speaker 2: but the way to go as a subway. So how

328
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:26,520
Speaker 2: do they do it? Tom Smith, you're the former NYPD detective.

329
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:31,320
Speaker 2: She the victim must have purchased the metro card with

330
00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,440
Speaker 2: a credit card because they can then trace it back

331
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,520
Speaker 2: to her, or the perp could have used her credit

332
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:39,119
Speaker 2: card to buy a Metro card.

333
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,680
Speaker 8: That's correct. That's a big part of the investigation, which

334
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,760
Speaker 8: we'll get further into it. But the stealing and using

335
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:47,760
Speaker 8: of the credit card is going to be a big

336
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 8: factor in this because then it ties them to the scene.

337
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:54,880
Speaker 8: First of all, then it also gets him away from

338
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,320
Speaker 8: the scene, and you know that is a big factor

339
00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,159
Speaker 8: in this investigation because they can back from the scene

340
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,720
Speaker 8: and then wherever he's going to end up. And the

341
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:09,840
Speaker 8: purchasing of the airline ticket is his escaping method. So

342
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,360
Speaker 8: all of that is going to come into play when

343
00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,119
Speaker 8: you start backtracking on the case to put him at

344
00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:15,680
Speaker 8: the scene.

345
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 2: So who is this woman? In order to solve a murder?

346
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,159
Speaker 2: And I've tried cases where I did not know the

347
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:25,360
Speaker 2: identity of the victim.

348
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:27,440
Speaker 3: Very hard to do.

349
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,639
Speaker 2: But at the same time all of this is happening,

350
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 2: the son of the victim is desperately trying to find

351
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,400
Speaker 2: his mother. Take a listen to Sydney Sumner Crime Online.

352
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,399
Speaker 10: Denise Olius Rncibia has not been in touch with her

353
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 10: son and he is very worried something has happened, as

354
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,800
Speaker 10: her son reports her missing in Queen's where she lives.

355
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,399
Speaker 10: The front desk at the Soho fifty four hotel on

356
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,120
Speaker 10: Watt Street is being asked to perform a wellness check

357
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,919
Speaker 10: on one of their guests. Despite a do not disturb

358
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 10: sign on the door. A hotel employee entered the room

359
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 10: and saw the thirty eight year old Olius or Incebia

360
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,600
Speaker 10: lying covered with a blanket. She looked like she was resting,

361
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,879
Speaker 10: so the employee quickly backs out of the room and

362
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 10: reports to the front desk that the guest is sleeping and.

363
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,200
Speaker 3: More from Nicole parton Crime Online.

364
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,359
Speaker 11: Police following up on a missing person report followed by

365
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 11: her son, end up at the Soho fifty four hotel

366
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 11: in Manhattan. It is around ten thirty am when a

367
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 11: maid enters the room and realizes that Denise oleas Ornsebia

368
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 11: is not sleeping under the blanket. The blanket has been

369
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 11: used to cover the bloody body of a woman who

370
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,200
Speaker 11: has been beaten to death. Police arrived to room eleven

371
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,360
Speaker 11: ninety on the eleventh floor of the Soho fifty four

372
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:45,159
Speaker 11: hotel and find a bloody crime scene with evidence clearly

373
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 11: left behind by a possible killer. The victim has been beaten, strangled,

374
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 11: and there are fragments of plastic embedded in her head

375
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 11: and an iron covered in blood next to her. Police

376
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,439
Speaker 11: catch a break when they find a pair of blood

377
00:22:58,480 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 11: soaked mince pants.

378
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 2: The receipt to Tom Smith for an NYPD detective, host

379
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 2: of Goldshields podcast, Tom, I think it's a whole nother

380
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:12,200
Speaker 2: layer of complexity, a whole another type of defendant that

381
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 2: can rape or murder a woman so brutally sneak out

382
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 2: wearing her clothes and then use her credit card and

383
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 2: Metro card. And you know what it reminds me of.

384
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 2: It reminds me of Brian Laundry. After he takes Gabby Patito,

385
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 2: his fiance, out west, murders her, leaves her and dispersed

386
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 2: camping where nobody will find her.

387
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:39,920
Speaker 3: But a pack of wolves.

388
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 2: Then he uses her van that she has completely redone

389
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 2: to in which to travel across country, her credit cards,

390
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,440
Speaker 2: and her cell phone. I mean, I think every time

391
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,360
Speaker 2: I would have picked up that cell phone, my hand

392
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 2: would have burned because he had just killed her.

393
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 3: Same with this guy Tom Smith.

394
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 8: Yeah, you know what, but a lot of times the

395
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,159
Speaker 8: police work, we don't rely on criminals being smart, and

396
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,159
Speaker 8: that makes our job a little easier sometimes. And you

397
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 8: have to think, you know, he's in a panic, he's

398
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 8: maybe thinking too much, and whatever's right in front of

399
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 8: him as an escape route, he's going to use the

400
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,479
Speaker 8: same thing in the Gabby Potito case, whatever's there that

401
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,159
Speaker 8: he can utilize to get away from the scene, to

402
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 8: get out of New York as quick as possible. He's

403
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:33,679
Speaker 8: going to use And that's not thinking intelligently. They're in

404
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 8: a rush, and they're under a lot of stress and

405
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 8: pressure to get away from that scene.

406
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 3: Well, whose fault is that? It's their fault for committing a.

407
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,120
Speaker 8: Murder, Absolutely right, you know, And that's what I mean.

408
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 8: You know, we rely sometimes on criminals not being smart

409
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 8: and being not thinking something through and just being impulsive

410
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 8: with what they do.

411
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 2: Don't know all about that Smith, because he somehow masked

412
00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 2: to allude NYPD and get on a plane hello and

413
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 2: get all the way out to Arizona. If he hadn't

414
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 2: started a one man crime wave out in Arizona, he'd

415
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 2: probably still be walking free right now.

416
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 3: So I don't know how dumb he is.

417
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 8: Oh he said, no, No, No, I didn't mean dumb. You know,

418
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 8: sometimes impulsive actions that they do after krime, the crimes

419
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 8: are are dumb, not the overall thought process of what

420
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 8: he is. Yes, I don't mean that by any stretch.

421
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 8: He's intelligent because he had a plan and he acted

422
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 8: on that plan.

423
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 2: Let's see what this world class jackass did out in Arizona.

424
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 3: Take a listen to Nicole parton Crime Stories.

425
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 11: Investigators say they are able to track the suspect's movement

426
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 11: through the victim's credit card and Metro card the suspect

427
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 11: allegedly stole and is using as investigators are identifying their

428
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 11: suspect in New York. Police in Arizona have their hands

429
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 11: full with a one man crime wave on February seventeen

430
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 11: in Phoenix, Arizona, and attempted carjacking and stabbing. The next morning,

431
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 11: February eighteen, at eight thirty am in Surprise, Arizona, a

432
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,679
Speaker 11: man goes into a McDonald's women's restroom, crawls under a

433
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 11: stall door, and threatens a McDonald's employee with a gun.

434
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,880
Speaker 11: She screams and he stabs her several times before fleeing

435
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 11: the facility.

436
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 3: I don't get it.

437
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 2: The guy is on the run for a Murdercaren start

438
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,439
Speaker 2: and what does he did? Goes straight in the woman's

439
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,679
Speaker 2: bathroom and try to rape another lady in Arizona. I

440
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 2: thought he went to Arizona to get away from the

441
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 2: murder he committed in New York.

442
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,160
Speaker 3: He goes straight to Arizona and tries to rape a woman.

443
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 9: Oh, he can't stop himself, Nancy, This is what he does.

444
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 9: This is a sexually motivated guy and clearly also motivated

445
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 9: by violence. So yeah, he may have run away so

446
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 9: he won't get caught, but he can't stop himself on

447
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:53,719
Speaker 9: wanting to attack people.

448
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 3: That's his m oh amazing.

449
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,679
Speaker 2: He could not control himself long enough to get in

450
00:26:58,760 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 2: the clear.

451
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 3: Well, it ain't over yet.

452
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 2: He tries to rape the woman in the stall in

453
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 2: the bathroom at McDonald's. He's foiled and he goes running

454
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 2: on foot. He actually gets away. Again, that's not the.

455
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 3: End of the story. Listen to Rachel Bonnia.

456
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 12: Police arrived to the McDonald's in Surprise, Arizona, but the

457
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 12: suspects has fled on foot. Employees get out a good

458
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 12: description of the man. In a matter of minutes, someone

459
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 12: matching his description steals a car Surprise. Phoenix and Scott

460
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 12: Steel police are all alerted and looking for the stolen car.

461
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 12: When Scott Steel police see the vehicle and get a

462
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 12: good look at the suspect driving, he is pulled over

463
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 12: and police take twenty six year old rod Almassouri into custody.

464
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 3: Shll Nutt James Shell Knutt.

465
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 2: Before you're a high profile lawyer, which you are now

466
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 2: with the shell Nut Law Firm twenty seven years Metro

467
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 2: major case. This idiot killed murders a woman in New

468
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 2: York somehow it's away from police, using the victims Metro

469
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 2: card and credit card, buys a plane ticket. Hello, isn't

470
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 2: there security at LaGuardia JFK and Newark?

471
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 3: That's a whole other can of worms.

472
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 2: He flies, gets a ticket, probably with her stolen credit card,

473
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 2: flies to Arizona, and immediately starts committing violent felonies.

474
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 3: I mean, now, after.

475
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 2: Trying to rape a woman in a stall, he runs

476
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 2: from that crime and steals a car.

477
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 3: He steals a car. I mean, I give up. I

478
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 3: just throw my nose in the air.

479
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 5: Yeah.

480
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 7: No, this guy's a serial criminal. I mean, this guy

481
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 7: I would be wondering where he was at before?

482
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 5: Is in New York?

483
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, good point. How many other people has

484
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 2: he killed?

485
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 7: Oh? Exactly? New York may have New York may not

486
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 7: have been his first stop in his series of stabbings

487
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 7: and homicides.

488
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 3: Who is this guy? Where is he from? Joe Hutchinson?

489
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 3: Do we know where this guy is from?

490
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 5: What we do know is that he seems to have

491
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 5: family in Arizona and one outlet in New York is

492
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 5: now spoke to one family member in particular, he said

493
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 5: it didn't sound like the greatest of our bringings. She

494
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 5: called him a misogynist from childhood and said he was

495
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 5: also a bipolar of schizophrenic.

496
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 2: Well a minute, who called him a misogynist has half

497
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 2: the half, sister, Okay, yeah.

498
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 5: She spoke to the New York filingers and said that

499
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,719
Speaker 5: he used to exhibit delusions and that you've felt compelled

500
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 5: to kill his own pet sneak as well.

501
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 2: I'm now learning that he has three alleged assaults in

502
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 2: Florida and there's an ongoing investigation of him in Texas.

503
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 3: This guy's all over the map.

504
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 2: I'm not surprised he's committing all the felonies because he's

505
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 2: an animal, but I am surprised.

506
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 3: Nobody's put it behind bars.

507
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 2: And I personally blame Tom Smith and James Sheilnett, who

508
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 2: were on the panel right now. But wait a minute,

509
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 2: wait for it, Wait for it, everybody, take a listen

510
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 2: to Rachel Benia.

511
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 3: Wait wait, swarted it once in.

512
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 12: The police car and read his rights. Rod Alamassori starts talking.

513
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 12: He tells police about the attempted cardracking and stabbing that

514
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 12: he did the previous day in Phoenix. Police are surprised

515
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 12: because they hadn't had the chance to mention it to him,

516
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 12: But even before they make it to the police station,

517
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 12: he tells them they should google Soho fifty four.

518
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 2: How many times I hope my twins are not listening

519
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 2: because I gave up cursing when they were born, having

520
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 2: worked for decades around Felons. Cops, you name it, you

521
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 2: get a pretty nasty mouth.

522
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 3: Okay, but how many jackasses have you heard say google it?

523
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 3: Google it?

524
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

525
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 2: Joe Hutchinson joining me investigative reporter dailymail dot com. Did

526
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 2: he actually tell the cops to google Soho fifty four?

527
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 5: He did, Yeah, he told the police and Phoenix to

528
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 5: google the hotel that he was wanted for Homo Sade

529
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 5: and New York Say. And that is when police and

530
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 5: Phoenix contacted to the NYPD and told them we may

531
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 5: have someone of interest in the case.

532
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 2: Well, that's not all he told him. Listen to Nicole

533
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 2: part and Crime Stories.

534
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 11: Police follow rod allmansory suggestion and google Soho fifty four

535
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 11: as they read about the unsolved murder and pictures of

536
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 11: the man walking through the lobby in women's leggings. The

537
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,959
Speaker 11: police in Arizona have some good news for the police

538
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 11: in New York. Police have already identified Almonsory as their suspect.

539
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 11: Now they know where he is. However, being loquacious, Almonsori

540
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 11: tells the police he thinks he may have hurt three

541
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 11: women in Florida.

542
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 3: May have hurt three women in Florida.

543
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 2: I'm afraid to ask Joe Rotchinson, are there three more

544
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 2: dead women in Florida.

545
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 5: We're not a hundred percent shure yet, but we do

546
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 5: know that last April he kidnapped and sexually assaulted sex

547
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 5: worker and was we believed Jale for it before he

548
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 5: PD's bill in September last year, which allowed him the

549
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 5: ability to travel and to go up to New York,

550
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:39,959
Speaker 5: New York.

551
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 2: Say, take a listen to Joseph Kinney, Chief of Detectives

552
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 2: in YPD.

553
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 13: He has been previously arrested in Florida, Texas, and Arizona.

554
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 13: His most notable out of state arrests include in April

555
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 13: twenty twenty three arrest in Sultner County, Florida, where he

556
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 13: kidnapped and sexually assaulted a female. He was arrested on

557
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 13: that charge and later posted his ball his own bail

558
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 13: on that charge in September of twenty twenty three.

559
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 2: You know what that tells me, James shell Knutt. He

560
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 2: posted his own baill. He kidnapped and sex assaulted.

561
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 3: A woman, and he got a low bail. He could

562
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 3: post his own ball from the jail. Somebody let him walk,

563
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 3: schell Nutt.

564
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 7: Of course they did. They let him walk, and they

565
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 7: gave him a license to do it again. Someone should

566
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 7: be ashamed of letting this animal back out on the street.

567
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 7: Is unacceptable.

568
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 2: We are learning more from Joseph Kinney, Chief of Detectives, NYPD.

569
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 3: Listen.

570
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 13: On February seventeenth, twenty twenty four, just nine days after

571
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 13: our victim was discovered in New York City, he committed

572
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 13: a nine point cardjacking in Phoenix, Arizona, where he stabbed

573
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:46,719
Speaker 13: his female victim.

574
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: He managed to.

575
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 13: Escape that scene. The very next day, in Surprise, Arizona,

576
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 13: he dragged a female employee of a McDonald's into the

577
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 13: ladies room, held her against her will, and stabbed her

578
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 13: several times. This time, he did not escaped Arizona law enforcement.

579
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 13: He was arrested in Scottsdale, Arizona, while driving a stolen car.

580
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 13: While in the custody of Arizona law enforcement, he informs

581
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 13: them that he is wanted for homicide in New York

582
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 13: City and tells the cops that they should google Soulho

583
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:15,240
Speaker 13: fifty four hotel.

584
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 2: We're learning from a Chief of Detectives, Joseph Kenney, more

585
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,919
Speaker 2: about the investigation that stopped a one man crime wave

586
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 2: for now unless some moron lets him out on bail.

587
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 3: Listen.

588
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 13: In addition to the alerts the NYPD had put on,

589
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 13: the subject called Arizona authorities to contact us. We are

590
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 13: currently working with our partners in the Manhattan District Attorney's

591
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 13: Office to arrange extradition back to New York City so

592
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 13: he could be charged for the homicide here. We are

593
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 13: also working with the FBI and their Violent Criminal Apprehension

594
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:52,359
Speaker 13: Program to explore the possibility of discovering additional victims. As

595
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 13: a subject told Arizona cops that he hurt three additional

596
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 13: girls in Florida.

597
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 3: And Chief Kenny lays out.

598
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 13: The timeline is On January twenty sixth, he purchases a

599
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 13: plane ticket from Florida to New York on one twenty nine.

600
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 13: We know he has credit card usage in New York City,

601
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 13: so he arrived somewhere in that three day span. On

602
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 13: two six, he visits an escort in Upper Manhattan. Between

603
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 13: two seven and too eight, we have our homicide at

604
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 13: the Soho Hotel. On two twelve, he flies back to Arizona.

605
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 13: On uh out of Newark Airport. Two seventeen, he does

606
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 13: the carjacking in Arizona. To eighteen, he stabs a woman

607
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 13: at McDonald's and subsequently arrested.

608
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 2: If this guy had been apprehended on all of his many,

609
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 2: many other brutal assaults on women, this mother would be

610
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 2: alive right now, Joe Hutchinson, where does the case stand now?

611
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 6: All?

612
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,839
Speaker 5: Right now? I believe the new District Attorney's office has

613
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 5: sent an officer out to Phoenix to have a make

614
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 5: that they. I also believe that formal chilities are going

615
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 5: to be failed up today in Arizona. They may have

616
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 5: already been done by any over there from one hundred

617
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 5: cent show you. But then we were fooled yesterday that

618
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 5: the case, the exhibition case, could take weeks, it could

619
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,359
Speaker 5: take months. So we just have to wait and see.

620
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 2: Doctor Howard Robin, forensic pathologist. In a nutshell, could you

621
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:29,280
Speaker 2: tell me what a neck compression ending in death means.

622
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 6: Well, the next compression could either be throttling where the

623
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 6: perpetrator used their hands in order to strangle the victim,

624
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 6: or it could be due to linkature. There's a difference

625
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:54,720
Speaker 6: between strangulation and throttling. In strangulation, it's not necessarily one's

626
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 6: hands that are used in order to put pressure on

627
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:05,959
Speaker 6: the neck structures, but one could use a knee or

628
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 6: some other body part. But if this was manual strangulation,

629
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:18,919
Speaker 6: they would find discoid lesions or thumbprints or fingerprints on

630
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 6: the neck, but they're only observed in about fifty percent

631
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 6: of strangulations. If it was a ligature strangulation, they would

632
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 6: find a circular indentation around the neck. A ligature was

633
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 6: not found at the scene, more likely than not this

634
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 6: was a throttling or strangulation of the neck, and the

635
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 6: important studies to perform would be dissection of the neck,

636
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 6: looking for hemorrhage in the muscles in the neck, as

637
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 6: well as fractures of the voice box, the larynx or

638
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,919
Speaker 6: of the hyoid bone, and then of course looking at

639
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 6: the eyes to see if there are small hemorrhages or

640
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 6: particial hemorrhages that would be secondary to obstruction of the

641
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 6: jugular vein that drains blood from the head and that

642
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 6: leads to these small hemorrhages in the conjunct titha. So

643
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:32,879
Speaker 6: additional information from the autopsy would help us understand what

644
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 6: this means. Compression of the neck all, it's more likely

645
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 6: than not that the strangulation occurred or the compression of

646
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 6: the neck occurred after she had sustained the head injury,

647
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 6: and that's probably how blood then contaminated the pants of

648
00:38:58,719 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 6: the perpetrator.

649
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 2: Hearing renowned forensic pathologist doctor Howard Robin, and my point

650
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 2: in obtaining that explanation is this, many people think that

651
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 2: rage is a defense.

652
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,760
Speaker 3: It is not. Anger is not a defense.

653
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 2: Also, premeditation is required for a conviction on malice murder,

654
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 2: and under the law, intent malice can be formed in

655
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 2: the twinkling of a moment, the blink of an eye.

656
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 2: And for this defendant to have throttled or compressed the

657
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:48,720
Speaker 2: neck of this mother, this young mom, every millisecond he

658
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 2: held her by the neck is time to form intent

659
00:39:53,560 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 2: which equals murder. One not voluntary not involuntary. He needs

660
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 2: jail for life or.

661
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,720
Speaker 14: Worse, Nancy, if I could jump in for just a moment.

662
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 14: This is John Lemley in the Crime Online newsroom. A

663
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 14: judge in Arizona has decided not to transfer Almonsouri to

664
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 14: New York to stand trial for the horrific killing that

665
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 14: took place inside a hotel there, So the twenty six

666
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 14: year old Almansori will stay put for the attempted stabbing

667
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,439
Speaker 14: murders there in Arizona. This according to a statement from

668
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 14: Court Commissioner Barbara Spencer. As of right now he is

669
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 14: behind bars without bond.

670
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 3: Goodbye friend,