1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here, 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of 3 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election. 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,719 Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade 5 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent 6 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 2: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about, 7 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,080 Speaker 2: it just means the absolute world to have your support. 8 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 2: But enough with that, let's get to the show. Joining 9 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 2: us now is venture capitalist Mark Andresen. He's out with 10 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 2: a stunning new essay, Why AI will Save the world? 11 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 2: Counterintuitive or is it so? Mark? It's great to see you. 12 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 3: Hey, good morning Mark. 13 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 2: You go through a couple of the myths, and I 14 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 2: actually just thought, as a fun interview, you know, we 15 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 2: have a general, like a general audience. Some of these 16 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 2: people may not be all familiar with your work. You're 17 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 2: just on the Joe Rogan experience. But the most common ones, 18 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 2: I thought, you do a fantastic job of breaking these down. 19 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,479 Speaker 2: The first and foremost is will AI kill us all? 20 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 2: Why won't it? 21 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 4: I will not, in fact kill us all. It's like 22 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 4: it's it's it's it's a very exciting new technology. It's 23 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 4: a technology. We build it, we control it. You know, 24 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 4: it runs, it runs on computers that we own. 25 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 3: We don't like what it does, we turn the computers off. 26 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 4: It's a you know that that part is just I 27 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 4: think straightforward engineering. 28 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 2: One of the reasons why I think it's important for 29 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:29,839 Speaker 2: people to understand what you're talking about about the level 30 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 2: of control is that there's been a lot of I 31 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 2: don't want to say fear mongering, but maybe there is 32 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 2: about singularity about the ability to you know, pass the 33 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 2: Turing test and all of this. As someone who's a 34 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 2: technologist there from the very beginning, from so many of 35 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 2: so much of the Internet and all that, why do 36 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 2: you think that that is something that we shouldn't be 37 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 2: concerned about. 38 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, so you may know, we Californians are famous for 39 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 4: our cults. We love our cults. We have produced many 40 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 4: thousands of them over the over the decades and continue 41 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 4: to do so. And so there's this concept in in 42 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 4: religious studies of a millenarian cult, sort of an end 43 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 4: of the world cult. And the way that he start 44 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 4: is with sort of the idea of creating heaven on Earth, 45 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 4: which is actually a term you may be familiar with. 46 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 4: It's an old Bill Buckley term called immin immanitizing the Eschaton, 47 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:17,799 Speaker 4: which is sort of bring about, bring about heaven on Earth. 48 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 4: And this is the idea of the singularity, right. So 49 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 4: techis who get into this stuff kind of you know, 50 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 4: come with this idea of heaven on Earth through the. 51 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 3: Application of technology. 52 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:26,679 Speaker 4: But of course the flip side of heaven on Earth 53 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 4: is creating hell on Earth, right, And so the sort 54 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 4: of utopian cult tend to transform over time into being 55 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 4: these sort of apocalyptic cults. And you know, they sort 56 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 4: of hear this term, you know, kind of summon summoning 57 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,119 Speaker 4: the demon, and then you know, and then things. 58 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 3: Go horribly wrong. 59 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 4: So these are just like ideas that are kind of 60 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 4: very deeply rooted in kind of Western theology, Western philosophy, 61 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 4: and whatever new is happening in the world. 62 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 3: We tend to kind of build up these cults. I 63 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:51,799 Speaker 3: maybe I'm I don't know, I'm a simpler guy. 64 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 4: I'm an engineer. You know, I got where I am 65 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 4: by writing software. Writing software is hard. You know, lots 66 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 4: of like practical aspects involved in getting any of this 67 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 4: stuff to work. 68 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 3: I Mean, the. 69 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:06,519 Speaker 4: Funniest idea right now is you can't even today, you 70 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 4: can't even buy chips to to do AI. Like there's 71 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 4: this massive, like global chip shortage for AI chips, and 72 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 4: so I have these kind of fantasies that there's a baby, 73 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 4: you know, malevolent artificial intelligence running in a lab somewhere 74 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 4: that has like a huge order out to Nvidia and 75 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 4: it's just like incredibly frustrated that it can't take over 76 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:23,239 Speaker 4: the world because it can't get the chips. 77 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 2: That's that's well said. Yeah, it turns out that the 78 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 2: limiting principle here is actual factories, not in terms of 79 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,639 Speaker 2: the idea, which is kind of amazing. Let's also talk 80 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 2: about AI ruining our society, as you said, hate speech, misinformation. 81 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 2: This is why we need regulation. We need it now, 82 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 2: we need to shut down. The government's got to get involved. 83 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 2: What do you make of that that argument there? 84 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, so after we get through the apocalypse apocalyptic cult, 85 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 4: then we get to sort of the mode basically, you know, 86 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 4: of any sort of significant new technology basically where it 87 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 4: threatens existing power structures. Right, so it sort of it 88 00:03:57,520 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 4: sort of threatens the hierarchy of who's in charge and 89 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 4: who gets to decide, you know, kind of what people think. 90 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 4: And of course they you know, the Internet is you know, 91 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 4: you know, you guys are an example of this, Like 92 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 4: the Internet has had a shattering effect on the traditional 93 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 4: you know authority of people who used to be in 94 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 4: a position to be able to gate keep access to 95 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 4: information and used to be able to, you know, determine 96 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 4: what people say. You know, there's once upon a time, 97 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 4: if it if it was set on the major three 98 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 4: TV networks, that's what everybody believed. And then you know, 99 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 4: guys like you come along and and kind of you know, 100 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 4: blow that up. 101 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 3: And so you know, look, we're we're on that. 102 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:28,919 Speaker 4: We're on the tail end now of you know, fifteen 103 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 4: years of like very dramatic change. 104 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 3: But by the way, on. 105 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 4: Both sides of the political aisle, uh, you know, in 106 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 4: terms of like who gets to basically decide what truth is? 107 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 4: And of course the people who used to decide what 108 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 4: truth is are extremely upset about that. And of course 109 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 4: a lot of like ordinary people who now have a 110 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 4: chance to learn alternate pint points of view and get 111 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 4: information they would not have had otherwise. We're obviously very 112 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 4: excited about that. 113 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 3: I think this. 114 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 4: Concern is like another turn on that right because because 115 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 4: you know, people are going in the future, people are 116 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 4: going to be talking to AI, learning from AI, you know, 117 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 4: getting information from AI, you know, at least as much 118 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 4: as they do that with other people. And so what 119 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 4: the AI says is going to have a big impact 120 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 4: on society. I think that's going to be an overwhelmingly 121 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 4: positive impact because I think people are going to have 122 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 4: access to a lot more information. It's going to be 123 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 4: like the Internet ont steroids. But if you're a traditional gatekeeper, 124 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:16,119 Speaker 4: like you don't like this at all, and so that's 125 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:17,799 Speaker 4: when you bring out, you know, the sort of scare 126 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 4: factors like like hat spetion and misinformation. 127 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 2: Yes, smart. And one of the questions though here is 128 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 2: about development, and this is one of the only ones 129 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 2: of which I'm still have some questions around, is given 130 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 2: that we have the existing players Google, Facebook, the bigger 131 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 2: corporations involved, should we worry then about monopolies, you know, 132 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 2: being the most transformative in this space and carrying over 133 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 2: existing policy or will the technology itself be able to 134 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 2: trump those concerns. 135 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's a very open, live question right now, 136 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 4: and I can kind of argue all sides of that question. 137 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 4: I don't know the answer, you know, this is a 138 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 4: very unusual situation. You know, usually new technologies get running, 139 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:57,359 Speaker 4: you know, kind of starret of a decade or so 140 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 4: before they become sort of super political, before people start 141 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:04,239 Speaker 4: to lobby for regulatory capture. This, this technology is unusual 142 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 4: in that the major players are are They're already in Washington, 143 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 4: and they're already lobbying aggressively for regulatory capture. And I, 144 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 4: you know, I said them in the piece, and I've 145 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 4: said out places like the big companies here are trying 146 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 4: to form a cartel. You know, they're trying to basically 147 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 4: get the status that the big banks have in financial services. 148 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: Right. 149 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:20,919 Speaker 4: They're trying to basically get protected, you know, as institutions 150 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 4: that are too big to fail, and they're trying to 151 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 4: basically get a regulatory wall established so that startups can't. 152 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 3: Compete with them. 153 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 4: And look, they haven't early head started on that. They've 154 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 4: made excellent progress. They've used these scare messages like end 155 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 4: of the world and Hatespe and all the rest, you know, 156 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 4: kind of as levers to try to get this kind 157 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 4: of regulatory capture. You know, I and others have been 158 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 4: pointing out that this is like a transparent grab for 159 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 4: regulatory capture. You know, it's it's ironic that I feel 160 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 4: like I have to encourage Washington to like, not like 161 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 4: and trust big tech, but in fact they should not. 162 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 4: In fact, you know, in this case, trust big tech 163 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 4: and then they should let let you know, they should let 164 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 4: technogy run. Why should they let the technology run competition? 165 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 4: You know, they basically the big companies should be subject 166 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 4: to competition from start ups and from open source start ups. 167 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 4: An open source should be subject to competition for big companies. 168 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 4: And of course that that that that is the time 169 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 4: honored way to you know, to to discipline companies is 170 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 4: to make sure that they're subject to actual competition. 171 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 2: Yes, I think that's an important point. We also do 172 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 2: you touch on AI taking all of our jobs in 173 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 2: the essay? One of there's been some talk here about well, 174 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 2: it turns out that blue white collar jobs are a 175 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 2: little bit more at risk even after decades of self 176 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 2: driving car discourse. But even that mark you kind of 177 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 2: try to make the case here that make taking all 178 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 2: of our jobs and all that is the doom. You 179 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 2: know that people have been crying about with new technology 180 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 2: for a long time. You know, you've all know Harari 181 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 2: many others have been like no, no, no, no, this time 182 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 2: is different. So why why is it not different? 183 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,119 Speaker 4: Yeah, So if you look historically, basically this is the cry. 184 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 4: This is sort of the paranoid cry on the economic 185 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 4: front that's going to come up basically every new wave 186 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 4: of technology for three hundred years, and the cry is 187 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 4: always the same cry, and it's it's based on this 188 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 4: fallacy and economics called the lump of labor fallacy, which is, 189 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 4: by the way, is the heart of Marxism. One of 190 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 4: the reasons why marx system doesn't work is because like 191 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 4: this fallacy is false. And the fallacy basically is that 192 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 4: there's a fixed amount of labor and either machines are 193 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 4: either humans are going to do the labor and have jobs, 194 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 4: or machines are going to do the labor. 195 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 3: And then humans won't have jobs. 196 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 4: And so that you know, the proposal then always is 197 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 4: that new technology will lead to a miseration of human beings. So, 198 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 4: of course what happens in practice is the opposite of that. 199 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 4: New technology drives economic growth, New technology drives job creation, 200 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 4: new technology drives wage growth. The sectors of the economy 201 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 4: with higher levels of technological development show higher job growth 202 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 4: and higher wage growth, and The reason for that is 203 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 4: very simple, which is technology is a lever on human effort. 204 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,439 Speaker 4: If you take a human being and you add technology 205 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:40,839 Speaker 4: to what they do, they become more productive, right, They 206 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,079 Speaker 4: generate more output with the same amount of human effort. 207 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 4: That leads to higher wages, that leads to you know, 208 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 4: basically growth in the economy. If if AI in fact 209 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 4: is allowed to run through the economy, I have no 210 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 4: doubt that the result is going to be massive economic growth, 211 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 4: massive job growth, and massive wage growth. I think actually 212 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 4: the bigger threat is AI won't be allowed to run. 213 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,079 Speaker 4: It'll be outlawed in some form. And just give you 214 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:02,719 Speaker 4: a couple examples of that, which is, you know, will 215 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 4: the medical boards allow there to be AI doctors? You know, 216 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 4: will the bar associations allow there to be AI lawyers? 217 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 2: You know? 218 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 4: I think it's actually equally likely we'll see the opposite problem, 219 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 4: which is AI will not be allowed to actually run 220 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 4: through the economy, and as a consequence, it will actually 221 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,319 Speaker 4: have less economic impact even than I would hope. I 222 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 4: hope that's not the case, but I do worry about. 223 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 2: That, right well, I mean, you got classic job preservation 224 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 2: there going on, which actually those does lead to the 225 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 2: next kind of myth that you talk about here about 226 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 2: AI leading to crippling inequality. So the obvious answer is, like, 227 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 2: you're right, market, it will unleash all this economic growth, 228 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 2: but all of the gains will aggregate to the top. 229 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 2: You don't need that many employees actually involved in these companies, 230 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 2: and they will capture the trillions of dollars in value 231 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 2: and a new underclass will form. That's why we need UBI. 232 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 2: So see how quickly I got there in terms of 233 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 2: this one. What's your view? 234 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, so this is sort of again, this is sort 235 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 4: of right. This is a fallacy right of the heart 236 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 4: of Marxism, right. And the way I always kind of 237 00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 4: teach my friends on this is it's like, if the 238 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 4: answer is UBI, then the question when it was communism, right, Like, 239 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 4: it's it's amazing how quickly sometimes sometimes people get to like, oh, 240 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 4: we just need to give everybody money. It's like, okay, 241 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 4: that sounds familiar. So the reason that doesn't happen. The 242 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 4: reason doesn't happen is because when people miss and this 243 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 4: is this is again, this is a fallacy that's repeated 244 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 4: over and over again. Technology democratize this, and with AI 245 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 4: it's actually striking that. It's it's so obvious that that's 246 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 4: already happening. You and I and anybody else in the 247 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 4: world today can get access to and use in our 248 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 4: daily lives the very best available AI, like anybody watching 249 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 4: this can use this same. You know, I cannot pay 250 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 4: a million dollars and get a better AI than anybody 251 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 4: watching this can. And the way and the way that 252 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 4: you do that if you want that is, you know, 253 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 4: you can go to you can get to go on 254 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 4: chat GPT for twenty bucks a month you get the 255 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 4: good stuff. Or you can go to Microsoft Being which 256 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 4: is a version of GPT four, or you can go 257 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,079 Speaker 4: to the Google Bard, which is also getting quite good. 258 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 4: Those are actually free, right, So Microsoft and Google are 259 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 4: already bringing this stuff to market for free. 260 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 3: Why why are they doing that? 261 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 4: It's because they're trying to use it, right to boost 262 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 4: their existing search businesses whatever, that's not your problem is 263 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 4: they're giving it for free. And so the best AI 264 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:05,680 Speaker 4: is already available to anybody who wants it. Over one 265 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 4: hundred million people are already using it in their in 266 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 4: their daily lives. That number is going to rant very 267 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 4: fast from here, and so you'll have it. 268 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 3: I'll have it. 269 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 4: Everybody else will have it. Everybody will happen in their lives, 270 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:16,079 Speaker 4: everybody will have it in the workplace. Everybody will be 271 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 4: able to build businesses based on it. Everybody will be 272 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 4: able to upgrade any aspect of how they operate based 273 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 4: on it, and so and so democratized. And the and 274 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 4: the reason it democratizes is actually it's it's sort of 275 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 4: an an Adams, you know, Ada Smith refutation of Marxism. 276 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 4: The reason it democratizes is because these companies want, the 277 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 4: companies like Microsoft and Google, that and open Aid want 278 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 4: to become big important companies. 279 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 3: Right. 280 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:40,319 Speaker 4: The way to be the biggest possible vendor of technology 281 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:42,679 Speaker 4: is to provide that technology the largest possible market, and 282 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 4: the largest possible market is everybody on the planet. And 283 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 4: so basic commercial self interest actually leads to the opposite result, 284 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 4: which is everybody gets the technology. That happened obviously with 285 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 4: the smartphone, it happened obviously with the Internet. 286 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,079 Speaker 3: It happened to the microship, but happened with the car. 287 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 4: You know, it's happened with every other new form of technology. 288 00:11:57,679 --> 00:11:58,839 Speaker 4: And that that's what's happening here. 289 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 2: Mark. One of the points say you often make, which 290 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,199 Speaker 2: I think is very important is that tech. Right now, 291 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 2: the industries that are actually driving the most inequality are housing, education, 292 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 2: and healthcare, both of which are the most resistant actually 293 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 2: to technology. As you alluded to earlier, lawyers being able 294 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 2: to keep and effectively a moat around their fees, doctors 295 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 2: in the same way, even if technology exists which could 296 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 2: quite easily give the consumer a much better product. Could 297 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 2: you touch on that though, about how tech has actually 298 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 2: not been allowed and not even just tech, but really 299 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 2: like recompetition has not been allowed to penetrate the regulatory 300 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 2: moat around these through sectors which are increasingly driving the 301 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 2: vast majority of the inequality in US society. 302 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, so we live in a bifurcated economy bisector. And 303 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,079 Speaker 4: why I described this is there's called fast sectors, which 304 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 4: are the sectors. 305 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 3: That are allowed to incorporate in your technology. 306 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 4: And these are sectors like in someerer electronics, television sets, right, media, software, right, 307 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 4: you know a lot actually by the way, food and drink. Interestingly, 308 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,959 Speaker 4: where you're allowed to have basically very rapid technological evolution. 309 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 4: You're allowed to have free mark capitalism, You're allowed to 310 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 4: have tons of competition, tons of new entrant tons of startups. 311 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:10,079 Speaker 4: Then you've got what I call the slow sectors, and 312 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 4: the slow sectors of the sectors of the government is 313 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 4: very involved in them, and the government establishes all these 314 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 4: regulatory barriers and constraints in what companies can do, and 315 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,719 Speaker 4: the result of that is rapidly escalating prices. 316 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 3: With very little technological change. 317 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 4: And you mentioned it, but the three big slow sectors 318 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 4: are housing, education, and healthcare. And by the way, you 319 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 4: could put a couple other sectors in there, and I would, 320 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:32,959 Speaker 4: I would, And you could say also. 321 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 3: By the way, government is in there. 322 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:38,719 Speaker 4: Generally government agencies are also very resistant to do technology. 323 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 4: And then I would just say, also, like the entire 324 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 4: field of law essentially, like so the entire field of 325 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 4: like administration of the economy, which of course has been 326 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 4: you know, growing tremendously, also is very resistant to new technology. 327 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 4: And so you have this like bizarre situation if you're 328 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 4: trying to like raise a family in the US right now, 329 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 4: you have this bizarre situation, which is you can buy, 330 00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 4: you know, a television set that covers your entire wall 331 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 4: right and spectacular, you know, four K, eight K visual 332 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 4: splendor to watch Netflix. You can buy that for like 333 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 4: three hundred bucks, but if you want to send your 334 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 4: kid to college for four years, it's three hundred thousand dollars. 335 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 4: Right and and and those prices buy fur Kate further 336 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,359 Speaker 4: every single day, right and and and Actually, my analysis 337 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 4: is this, This is why it feels like our politics 338 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 4: have gone so wild on both the left and the right. 339 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 4: I think this is the underlying reason why there's so 340 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 4: much populism on both sides. 341 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 3: Of the aisle. 342 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 4: Is because the experience of just the typical American voter 343 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 4: citizen is that the American dream, as defined by the 344 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 4: very basics of buying and living in a house, you know, 345 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 4: having sending your kids to college, and having excellent health care, 346 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 4: the prices in those things are running completely out of control. Yes, 347 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 4: this is one hundred percent function of government involvement. The 348 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 4: government in all three of those sectors subsidizes demand while 349 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 4: restricting supply. And so those are sectors that have a 350 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 4: cartel like structure. Right, It's virtually impossible to start a 351 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 4: new university, It's virtually possible to build houses lots of places. 352 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 4: It's first virtually impossible to start a new hospital or 353 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 4: get a new doctor license. And so the government basically 354 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 4: has a set of policies in place that restricted option 355 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 4: technology and drive prices in those sectors. 356 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 3: I think they should stop doing that. You know. 357 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 4: One of the things we're trying to do in our 358 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 4: business is in jectmore technology into those sectors. But it 359 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 4: is very hard because the barriers there too new technology 360 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 4: are very high. 361 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 2: Yes, they're outrageous. And finally, actually one point that you 362 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 2: touch on is about national competition visa via China. There's 363 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 2: been some arguments here about the Pentagon and whether we 364 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 2: should have completely state subsidized AI and the way that 365 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 2: the Chinese companies do it. You've argued here in the 366 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 2: essay that a robust private sector is actually enough in 367 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 2: order to quote unquote beat them. Given though that they're 368 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 2: massive investments inside of China on quantum computing and more, 369 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 2: why is it still enough for our private sector to 370 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 2: be able to come out on top eventually. 371 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 3: Yeah. 372 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 4: So, first of all, this is sort of an incongruity 373 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 4: and how Washington's dealing with AI. And this is something 374 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 4: I experienced a lot, which is I talk to people 375 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 4: in Washington on Tuesday, right, and they're they're very worried 376 00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 4: about all the arguments that we've already discussed, you know, 377 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 4: sort of internal to the US. I talked to the 378 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 4: same people on Thursday, and they're very worried about China, 379 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 4: and all of a sudden, they're like, Wow, we in 380 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 4: the private sector need to like teme up and advance 381 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 4: AI as fast as we can because we have to 382 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 4: compete with China, and we might be in a future 383 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 4: of war with China, and that war might be want 384 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 4: or lost on the basis of the application of AI. 385 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 4: And so there is this weird thing of course, where 386 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 4: you know, societies kind of turn on themselves when there's 387 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 4: no external threat, you know, the Chinese external threat. You know, 388 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 4: maybe maybe it's showing up at a good time kind 389 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 4: of you know, sort of weirdly, not in the way 390 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 4: that we would prefer, but like, you know, maybe it's 391 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 4: going to get us little bit more focused on things 392 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 4: that matter. Look, so both the Chinese state and the 393 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 4: American state have decided that AI and autonomy or the 394 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 4: future of warfare. China has been very public on this. 395 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 4: They you know, they the great thing about China is 396 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 4: they just like publish their plans. They just like tell 397 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 4: you what they're doing. It's the thing very straightforward, you know, 398 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 4: kind of how they communicate. And then and then look 399 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 4: in the US, the Pentagon, you know, several years ago 400 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 4: now basically announced decided that what they called the third offset, 401 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 4: just sort of the third big national strategy for you know, 402 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 4: for technology, advanced and military fairs, was going to be 403 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 4: a AI in autonomy. And so they've they've actually already 404 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 4: been kind of marching down this path. And so it 405 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 4: is pretty clear that both the major powers in the 406 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 4: world kind of believe the future of warfares is gonna 407 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 4: be it's gonna be based around AI. In China, they 408 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 4: have you know, they have a system, and their system 409 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,360 Speaker 4: has their public sector and their private sector completely intertwined. 410 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 4: Right the the the private sector in China is owned 411 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 4: by the public sector. It's owned by the Communist Party, 412 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,199 Speaker 4: and so they have the they have the advantage that 413 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 4: they can directly control the entire productive capability of their 414 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 4: system against you know, their their military needs, which is 415 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:34,640 Speaker 4: which is what they're doing. You know, we don't have that, 416 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 4: you know, we have we have at least in theory 417 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 4: of free market system. The advantage of the free market 418 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 4: system historically is a much faster rate of innovation, right 419 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 4: if if you get all these companies actually competing with 420 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 4: each other, you get all these new entrepreneurs that we 421 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 4: back competing with each other, competing with the big companies. Uh, 422 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 4: you know, you get a much faster rate of innovation. Historically, 423 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 4: the US system has led to a much much faster 424 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 4: rate of innovation than the centralized Soviet system did or 425 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 4: the centralized Chinese system has. And so my argument is 426 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 4: just very straightforward, which is we should unleash the animals 427 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 4: spirits of our private sector in our defense sector in 428 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 4: the same way we did during the Cold War. We 429 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 4: should have an absolute determination to know just completely swamp 430 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 4: the Chinese centralized system in terms of the quality of 431 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 4: our AI and then an any future military conflict like 432 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 4: we should be set up to just beat them decisively 433 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 4: right out of the gate with superior technology. 434 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 3: Yes. 435 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 2: And then my last question, Mark, you're one of the 436 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 2: best read people I know. What are some great books 437 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 2: that people can read to prepare for this transition on 438 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 2: a social level, a technological level, and a political level. 439 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, so, I mean there's tons. 440 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 4: I mean, my number one recommendation on the shifts of technology, 441 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 4: there's a great short book written by an Mit professor 442 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,439 Speaker 4: fifty years ago called men, Machines and Modern Times, And 443 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 4: it goes through this sort of cycle of adoption, like 444 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 4: what happens when a new technology arrives that sort of 445 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 4: threatens to, you know, kind of up end the established order. 446 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,440 Speaker 4: The book is interesting actually because it has a specific 447 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 4: focus in the book on historical precedence and military technology, 448 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 4: and so it has this incredible story of the first 449 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 4: naval gun that was able to automatically compensate for the 450 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 4: role of ships. Yes, like one hundred and hundred years ago, 451 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 4: the change naval warfare forever. And it was the level 452 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 4: of institutional resistance from both the US and the UK 453 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 4: navies to not adopt this technology was like, you know, 454 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 4: completely wild. And so anyway, it's it's a it's a 455 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 4: it's a very good book on Uh, it's a very 456 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 4: good book on on a societal impact of new technologies. 457 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 4: I also, I can't help but recommend on the fiction side. 458 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 4: I'm reading with my kid right now. I Hitchiker's Kind 459 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 4: to the Galaxy, and I bring that up. I bring 460 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 4: that up because Douglas Douglas Adams, the author of that, 461 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 4: had maybe the sort of funniest uh, you know, explanation 462 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 4: of how new technologies are received by society. Uh, he said, 463 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 4: if you were below the age of fifteen, and new 464 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:38,680 Speaker 4: technology is just obviously the way the world works, why 465 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 4: wouldn't why wouldn't it be, which, by the way, is 466 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 4: how my eight year old kind of us AI is like, Yeah, 467 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 4: of course the computer answers questions like why wouldn't the 468 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,919 Speaker 4: computer answer questions? And then he says, Adam says, if 469 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 4: you're between the ages of fifteen and thirty five, the 470 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 4: new technology is extremely exciting and you might be able 471 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 4: to make a career in it. And if you're above 472 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:55,679 Speaker 4: the age of thirty five, the new technology is unholy 473 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 4: and scary and it's going to destroy society. Right, So 474 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 4: I think that I think it's framework actually also is 475 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 4: exactly what's applying to AI right now. 476 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 2: All right, well, we'll have links down those in the description. Mark. 477 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 2: We really appreciate your time. I think the audience will 478 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 2: get a lot out of this. 479 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 3: Awesome. Thank you man, Thanks man. 480 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 2: We're always looking for a good take out there. This 481 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 2: one is genuinely stunning. Scott Galloway of Take Pivot Pivot Fame, 482 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 2: a co host of the podcast with Karroswisher, usually confined 483 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 2: to the tech world into like cringe liberal politics, has 484 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 2: decided to wait into the Republican primary. Here's this prediction. 485 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 5: I think President Trump is not going to run for president. Yeah, 486 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 5: under the auspices of a plea deal. 487 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 2: Where is that coming from? No one says that stuff. 488 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 5: Actually Governor Christie said said it and or at least 489 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 5: a components. 490 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 3: You're going be on the stage if Trump shows up, 491 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 3: he qualified thanks for my donation to him. I can't 492 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 3: believe I gave him money. 493 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 5: I actually think Governor Christie is going to surpass just 494 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,880 Speaker 5: antism the number too. But I don't think it'll matter. 495 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 2: I think Trump. 496 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 5: I don't understand it. Can't empathize with President Trump, but 497 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 5: I know how old Richmond think. He has a very 498 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 5: nice life, and his life can be going back to 499 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:18,400 Speaker 5: golf and sycophants and having sex with porn stars, which 500 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 5: I think is a good thing. I being cynical, I 501 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 5: would like to do more of that at some point 502 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 5: in my life. 503 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 2: Or I'm going to hit you when this is over, 504 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 2: just saying, or. 505 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:32,919 Speaker 5: He can live under the threat of prison. 506 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 2: Okay, that's certainly a take. Here's why I think Scott's wrong. 507 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 2: If that was true, then he would have not run 508 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 2: again in twenty twenty four. Everything that he said, I've 509 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 2: heard that, by the way, from a lot of people 510 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 2: who knew Trump. They're like Trump legs to golf. He 511 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 2: doesn't like to do work. All that's true. Guess what 512 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 2: he can do all that as president and still get 513 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,679 Speaker 2: all of the attention and craving that he's always wanted. 514 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 2: So I think that the analysis is spurious. I also 515 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 2: think that given the threat of legal indictment, being president 516 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 2: is the best possible scenario because it shields you legally 517 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 2: from a lot of it gives you legal immunity in 518 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 2: many of these cases, and gives you the best political 519 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 2: case to wage in order to keep you out of 520 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 2: a prison cell. 521 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: Okay, so I agree with you, but I'm going to 522 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: make the other case just to make it interesting. 523 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 2: So if he. 524 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: Didn't run for president, then he wouldn't like the crimes 525 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: were already committed. This writing was on the wall that 526 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,399 Speaker 1: he was likely to face indictment in a variety of 527 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: cases with regard to January sixth and the documents and 528 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: the thing in New York as well. So since that 529 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: writing was already on the wall. If he doesn't run 530 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 1: for president, then he doesn't have any leverage to try 531 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: to secure the plea deal that Scott Galloway is floating here, 532 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 1: in which others have floated as well, which is like, listen, 533 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 1: you agree to not run for president, you go back 534 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 1: to your private life, and this. 535 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 2: All goes away. 536 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,199 Speaker 1: So it would make sense in that context of like, 537 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: I get to hold the threat of me being president 538 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: again over their head, so I can secure some sort 539 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:56,880 Speaker 1: of a deal to make sure that my ass does 540 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 1: not end up in prison, and then you know, the 541 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: fallback play and is to actually win the presidency again 542 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: and then he can make his own problems go away. 543 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,880 Speaker 1: The reason that I don't think that this is correct is, 544 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 1: you know, if they strike this kind of a plea 545 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,439 Speaker 1: deal with Trump, it really validates the case that this 546 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: all was political to start with, that the only thing 547 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: they cared about was keeping him out of the White 548 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,679 Speaker 1: House to begin with. And the lawyers that I've talked to, 549 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: because you know some of the mechanics of this, like 550 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 1: I don't have full insight into the lawyers I've talked to, 551 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,440 Speaker 1: you really think that this is a very unlikely outcome. 552 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 1: Because you're offering a political solution to what is ultimately 553 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,640 Speaker 1: a legal problem, and those two things don't normally mix. 554 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: So that's why I, you know, that's why I don't 555 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: see it happening frankly, but hey, it's interesting. 556 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, Look what do you think of the Chris Christy take? 557 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 2: Oh totally wrong? I mean no, look, no offense, Scott, 558 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 2: But like this is just not your wheelhouse really at all. 559 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 2: I mean we've covered really I think here's the problem 560 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 2: for him. Scott genuinely is like a resistance liberal and 561 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 2: I hates Trump and he wants to see somebody like assent. 562 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 2: But you and I are familiar with how actual GOP 563 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 2: primary voters think an act, and they love Trump, and 564 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 2: the thing that they hate the most about Chris Christy 565 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 2: is that he's anti Trump. Chris Christy, if he was 566 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,439 Speaker 2: running on literally anything else, probably would be doing fine. 567 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,200 Speaker 2: If you're somebody who is genuinely anti Trump, the best 568 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 2: lesson you can learn is to be like a Nancy 569 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 2: Mace or a what was the guy who got elect 570 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 2: a governor of Georgia. I'm playing Brian Camp, Brian Camp. 571 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 2: If you want to be like Brian Camp in those 572 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 2: two instances, what do you do. You run against the 573 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,400 Speaker 2: left and you just kind of hope that nobody really 574 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 2: notices that you do have differences with Trump. That's not 575 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,120 Speaker 2: the Christie tactic. There's no way you can be number 576 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 2: two like that, not whenever. That's like running against Ronald 577 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 2: Reagan in nineteen eighty. It's just not going to happen. 578 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: I do you think I agree with like, he's not 579 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: going to be the nominee. I don't know if he 580 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:48,880 Speaker 1: could pull into a second although actually I did see 581 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 1: I mentioned this was New Hampshire poll that has him 582 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 1: actually tied with DeSantis in New Hampshire for second for 583 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,159 Speaker 1: a second place in New Hampshire. 584 00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 4: I do think that. 585 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: There is something just on a like basic human level 586 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: that is compelling about the fact that he feels like 587 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: just like Trump does. He feels like he's saying the 588 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: things that he really thinks. Whereas desantist, Tim Scott, Nikki Haley, 589 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: all this other cast of characters, it's so naked that 590 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: they're posturing, they're trying to get the right answer, they're 591 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: using whatever their little consultants and focus groups told them 592 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: to say. And like obviously Chris Christy has his own 593 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 1: advisors and is doing his own version of that game, 594 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: but he has much more of that feel of like, listen, 595 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 1: I know this is uncomfortable and unpopular. I know the 596 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: audience that I'm speaking to. 597 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 2: I don't care. 598 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 1: I'm just going to say it anyway. There is something 599 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: compelling about that? Is it win the GUOP nomination? 600 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 2: Compelling? 601 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:41,439 Speaker 3: No? 602 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: Is it do a little bit better than I think 603 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: people are giving him credit for. 604 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see that. I could see that. All right, 605 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 2: Well maybe we'll find out. Maybe I'll look like an idiot. 606 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,159 Speaker 2: You could roll my clip and say I'm the actual 607 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 2: cringe person who doesn't know what I'm talking about. That's 608 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,360 Speaker 2: always fun. So we'll see you guys later. 609 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: So some fascinating charts were posted to Twitter showing increasing 610 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:07,439 Speaker 1: political polarization around some key issues of just like basic 611 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,119 Speaker 1: self esteem, basic self worth, and these things seem to 612 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: be splitting, Like there seems to be more of an 613 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: ideological divide in these feelings over time. Let's go and 614 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:17,680 Speaker 1: put this up on the screen so you can get 615 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,880 Speaker 1: a sense of what we're talking about here. So you've 616 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 1: got some questions, like on the whole, I'm satisfied with myself, 617 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 1: so you have a spike in Democrats who disagree with 618 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 1: that sentiment over Republicans. How satisfied are you with your 619 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: life as a whole? 620 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:35,400 Speaker 2: These days? 621 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: You again have Democrats really dissatisfied with their lives and 622 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 1: an increasing divide there. Same thing with life often seems meaningless. 623 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: I enjoy life as much as anyone. This one has 624 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: potentially the biggest spike here, which I actually thought was 625 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: kind of revealing. The future often seems hopeless. You've got 626 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: nearly forty percent of Democrats who agree with that. Again, 627 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: that has really spiked very recently in recent years, whereas 628 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,159 Speaker 1: the Republican number has shown a recent spike, but not 629 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,439 Speaker 1: nearly as much as the Democratic number. And that's one 630 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: of the biggest divides. So kind of fascinating that there 631 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: seems to be a real split in assessments of the future, 632 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 1: in assessments in personal satisfaction, how I feel about myself, 633 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: how I feel about my life, how I feel about 634 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: the future, etc. Between liberals and conservatives. 635 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 2: I do wonder how much of this is generational though, 636 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 2: just because so many young people are liberal, they are 637 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 2: going to self select for more doumerism, And I mean, 638 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 2: you can't blame them on one hand, So yeah, but 639 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 2: I do think there is something to this. You can 640 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,400 Speaker 2: see it in the attitudes around COVID, you can see 641 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 2: it around safetyism, you can see it around optimism, around 642 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 2: the feeling of the country in some cases. You know, 643 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 2: I'm on various different sides of those, so I do 644 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 2: tend to understand. But I think the one that is 645 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,239 Speaker 2: very sad is life. Life often feels meaningless, and a 646 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 2: huge spike in the agreed number for self identified liberals, 647 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 2: and I enjoy life as much as anyone with a 648 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 2: disagree also spiking as well. So in general, I think 649 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 2: this is probably skewed most by generational gaps and by wealth, 650 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 2: but there is definitely something like I'm not going to 651 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 2: say spiritual, I don't know what is it. I don't 652 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 2: know what the word is, epistemological to something about what's 653 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 2: going on here. 654 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the generational point is well taken. I 655 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: do think it's worth noting on almost all of these metrics, 656 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: even though the liberal numbers go up at a faster clip, 657 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: the conservative numbers are rising as well, So you do 658 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: have increasing levels of like personal dissatisfaction and pessimism rising 659 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: among the population, and in some ways, I think that's justified. 660 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: In a lot of ways, I think that's justified. You know, 661 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: the one about the future often seems hopeless. That one 662 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: really struck me because listen, if you you know, if 663 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: you're a young person that's looking at you know, the 664 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,479 Speaker 1: fact that the error is like unbreathable from wildfires and 665 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: there's increasing you know, extreme temperatures and climate catastrophes, and 666 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: it just seems like there's no end in sight and 667 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: this is going to continue to spiral out of control. Yeah, 668 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: it's pretty justified to have some negative feelings around that. 669 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 1: And then in terms of personal material conditions, if you 670 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: are a person who benefited from, you know, growing up 671 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 1: and starting your career at a certain age in America 672 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: where now you've got a home and you feel pretty solid, 673 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: you pretty feel pretty stable, and you've got a nice 674 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 1: little nest egg, and you're of that generation, Yeah, you're 675 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: probably going to feel pretty pretty good about things, at 676 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: least better about things than young people who are like 677 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: I'm never going to be able to buy a house, 678 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 1: I'm not going to be able to have a family, 679 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 1: I'm never gonna be able to have kids, never going 680 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: to be able to have some basic measure of stability, 681 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: and rather than feeling like, yeah, but things will get 682 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: better over time, it just seems like we're facing down 683 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 1: a landscape of decline. You know. To bring it back 684 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: to politics, because that's what we do here, just the 685 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: specter of we're really going to have Donald Trump and 686 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: Joe Biden as like the best we can do in pology. 687 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 1: I just think that's so symbolic of this sense of 688 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 1: national decline which pervades people's overall feelings of optimism and also, 689 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 1: you know, can can lead into their own personal feelings 690 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: of how their life is likely to go over the 691 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: coming years. 692 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's true. I think a lot of 693 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 2: it focuses on future conditions, and that's where I would 694 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 2: you know, the most immediate ones that you can try 695 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 2: is cost of living and you know, not even educational attainment, 696 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 2: but attainment towards the or at least a feeling that 697 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 2: you can ascend to a higher social class if you 698 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 2: work hard enough. That's really you know, that's all the 699 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 2: basic American contract that was there. It's exactly why also 700 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 2: that those numbers were much more equalized in the past. 701 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 2: So I do think this is a very generational chart, 702 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 2: and I think that's actually even more unfortunate than whenever 703 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 2: you divide it by partisan, although I do there is 704 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,719 Speaker 2: something even amongst people who are of the same age 705 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 2: in terms of some sorting on these issues, which is 706 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 2: not good, by the way, for people to have totally 707 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 2: different world. 708 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 1: I think there's I think there's always been a divide 709 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: between liberals and conservaive conservatives tend to be like, rank 710 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 1: higher on levels of happiness, and so there's always been 711 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 1: a bit of a split here. But the fact that 712 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 1: you have these generational divides coming to the. 713 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 2: Four I think is very noteworthy. Agreed, all right, we'll 714 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 2: see you guys later.