1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: You're on Mike one. Yep, Okay, that's fine. Leap. That 2 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: looks good. We are we are recording. That's exciting for me. 3 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 2: Welcome back to she Pivots. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. 4 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 2: Happy Wednesday, she Pivots listeners for today's candid Convo. I'm 5 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:32,919 Speaker 2: excited to share my conversation with the woman who embodies 6 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 2: summer for me, the owner of Camp Belvoir Terras, Nancy Goldberg. 7 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 2: I remember when I met Nancy when I was just nine, 8 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 2: and I had those excited but gittery nerves that you 9 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,279 Speaker 2: get before going to your first ever sleepaway camp. And 10 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 2: little did I know that I would end up spending 11 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 2: almost seventeen years there, both as a camper, then as 12 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 2: a part time counselor, and then eventually on senior staff 13 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 2: as a counselor. I was even a counselor when I 14 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 2: was in law school. When I look at the different 15 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 2: phases of my career now, I feel like I can 16 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 2: point back to different pieces of my experience as a 17 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 2: camper and my experience in the arts and how they 18 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 2: set me up for it. And I think about running 19 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 2: campaign teams, I learned leadership skills and coalition building a camp. 20 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 2: When I think about being on TV as a political commentator, 21 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 2: I can draw that back to being in. 22 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: Theater, even if I wasn't that good. 23 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 2: And now that I'm trying to find this balance between 24 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 2: the personal and the professional, I feel like the last 25 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 2: time I really felt like that alignment was when I 26 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 2: was at camp. I could be quote professional when I 27 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 2: was in my classes, but I could also be really 28 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 2: silly and just have fun and let loose and not 29 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 2: worry about the way to the world. And Nancy was 30 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 2: the catalyst for all of it. Belvoir Terras opened in 31 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 2: nineteen fifty four by Nancy's mother as a way of 32 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 2: giving Nancy's sister a camp that wasn't centered around sports 33 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 2: or activities, but rather visual and performing arts. Nancy did 34 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 2: love the camp, but she always had her heart set 35 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 2: on English. I went to study education at Bridmore College 36 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 2: and later went on to receive her Masters of Education 37 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 2: from Harvard. From there, Nancy taught English in Newton, Massachusetts 38 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 2: public school system, allowing her to spend her summers at Belvoir. 39 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 2: In the nineteen eighties, she was the manager for the 40 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 2: children's dance program at Step Studio in New York City. Yes, 41 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,959 Speaker 2: that famous step studio. Nancy is a true delight and 42 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 2: has been incredibly informative in my life. And I'm so 43 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 2: honored that I'm able to share her story when she 44 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 2: has been so impactful in mine. Nancy Goldberg, you are 45 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 2: one of the longest relationships in my life. I met 46 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 2: you when I was nine years old. You are the 47 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 2: owner of Camp Belvart Harris for girls. That's true, but 48 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 2: I want to hear about you. How old are you, Nancy, 49 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 2: I'm eighty seven years old. When I was in the 50 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 2: eighth grade at the Runkles School, small elementary school in Brookline, 51 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 2: not far from my home Lundin Road, I was told 52 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 2: by the English teacher that I would be an English 53 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 2: teacher when I grew up, and I thought that was 54 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 2: very unusual that a teacher would say what a student 55 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 2: who was I thought average would become in later years. 56 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 2: But in fact that's the truth. I went to Brinmarck College. 57 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 2: I went from uncle school to a small group of 58 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 2: very smart kids at Brooklyn High School. I had a 59 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 2: class of over a thousand, but we had a class 60 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 2: of thirty or so students who were put in a 61 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 2: special group. We traveled together from one teacher to another. 62 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 2: We were the top of the line academically according to 63 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 2: the elementary schools that we came from, and I found 64 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 2: that I had to work very hard to keep in 65 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 2: that group. And I wanted to stay in the group 66 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 2: because I knew we were getting the best teachers and 67 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 2: the most interesting assignments. And so I worked very hard 68 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 2: as a ninth grader through high school, and at the 69 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 2: end of high school, I had chosen a girl's private 70 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 2: college because I had been at a girls camp tap 71 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 2: a Wingo for ten years. 72 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: So did you ever have visions of doing anything other 73 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: than being a teacher and working at the camp. Did 74 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: you pursue other interests or you were always working towards 75 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: that goal, the combined goal of teaching. I think that 76 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: I was always interested in being a teacher. I think 77 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: that eighth grade teacher was right that I liked to 78 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: be working with children, and I liked to be planning 79 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: a lesson and I like to see how the lesson 80 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: goes and what impact it has on kids. Can we 81 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 1: back up a little bit? Can you tell me about 82 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: your parents? My mother was a dancing teacher. She danced. 83 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: She's open to dancing school when she was sixteen years 84 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: old because she wanted to go to college, and she 85 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: knew if she wanted to go to college, she had 86 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: to pay the way. So she decided to become dancing 87 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: teacher as she was a strong ballet dancer, and she 88 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: opened his studio and immediately had a huge crowd, and 89 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: she ran that business through her four years at Bum's College. 90 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: It paid for her college, her teaching of dance, and 91 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 1: then she married my father who was a butcher and 92 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: he owned a supermarket that wasn't his family and he 93 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 1: loved it. She tried to get him out of the butcher, 94 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 1: but he loved what he did. He loved being in 95 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: the store. He liked cutting the meat, he liked talking 96 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: to the clients, he liked having special sales. And it 97 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: was during the Second World War. He helped people to eat, 98 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: even if I didn't have the right coupons he kept. 99 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: He really felt his work was important in feeding people 100 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: in the Dorchester community. And my mother never did audish, 101 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 1: cleaned or even cooked. She always had an Irish girl 102 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 1: who did the household job. So my mother continued to 103 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: teach dancing and she was also active in bringing us 104 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: up She took us to different schools, and she was 105 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: very active in the PTA. She was a girl Sprownie 106 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 1: leader and then she was a Girl Scout leader, very 107 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 1: involved in a family. 108 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 2: She became a business owner, I mean apparently of the 109 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 2: dance school at sixteen, but she started the Camp Belvoir 110 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 2: Terrorists and bought this incredible property and incredible mansion at 111 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 2: a time when not very many women owned businesses and 112 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 2: founded businesses. 113 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: At Tapa Wingo, the woman who ran the camp at 114 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 1: ms multiple sclerosis, and her husband was trying to run 115 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: the camp and he was crippled polio years ago. He 116 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 1: had high time getting around. It was he didn't really 117 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: know anything about tap So my mother came up and 118 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,359 Speaker 1: helped at tap A Wingo. So she got her ants 119 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:04,239 Speaker 1: in camping at Tampa Wingo just because of the health 120 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: of the woman who ran the camp. It was just 121 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: circumstantial that she pitched in when she was needed to 122 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: do it, and she enjoyed that. How old were you 123 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: were you a camper there? I was a camper from 124 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: the time I was eight to the time I was sixteen, 125 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: and we had horseback riding, which I did every day 126 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: for all the years I was at Tampa Wingo and 127 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: we had canoe trips, we had mountain climbing, We had 128 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: an art department, strong art department. In fact, the woman 129 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: who was running that art department was the first program 130 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: director at Belvoir Terrace when we opened it, and my 131 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: sister was also a camper there. My sister never did anything. 132 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: She didn't go in the water there because she said 133 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: there were leeches in the shallow end, which is where 134 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: she would have to start swimming. She didn't play any 135 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: of the games that they had. She wouldn't get anywhere 136 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: near a horse. But they didn't have, you know, the 137 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: theater stuff was really my mother thought it was really 138 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: too when she was there. She didn't see anything that 139 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: she really liked, and she saw that my sister was 140 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: there and she wasn't getting anything out of it. I 141 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: was getting canoe trips and mountain trips and horseback riding, 142 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: and I was doing fine there. But my sister didn't 143 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: do anything. And she said, there have to be girls 144 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: like Eleanor who need another place. And she started looking 145 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: for camps in Maine and she looked at a lot 146 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: of different places. I was in Sweden, Maine, which was 147 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: an hour from anything, and I mean anything. It was 148 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: three hours to the hospital. I had my appendix out 149 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: in Maine, and I rode for three hours in a 150 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 1: car and I thought it was going to die. It 151 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: was in such pain. But she didn't find anything that 152 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: she liked in Maine at all. She must have looked 153 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: at ten different sites that were already camps, and she 154 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: decided there wasn't enough things happening there, and there wasn't 155 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: a decent hospital near any of those places. And she 156 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: looked Lenox and Stockbridge and Great Barrington. She looked at 157 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: all these towns to see if there was something that 158 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: could accommodate what she wanted. What she wanted was housing, swimming, 159 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: possibly tennis, and she wanted to have at least two 160 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: dancing studios. And she needed someplace that she could have theater, 161 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: and she needed a building that we could have music, 162 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: because you can't have dancing without music, and we can't 163 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 1: have you can't have one eye without the other one, really, 164 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: and so she decided to have all the outside dance 165 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: music in theater and she just needed a place that 166 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: would accommodate that and would appeal to her. And she 167 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: said she looked at one dump after another. This is 168 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: an incredible historic property and historic building. How did she 169 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 1: poppen upon? What she did is she didn't find anything 170 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: made in the Hampshire of a monk that she liked. Anyway, 171 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,319 Speaker 1: there wasn't anything that struck her fancy. Then somebody showed 172 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: her this building and that showed her the They said 173 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: there was flowers, fancy flowers under the cover that was 174 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: on the small pool. So she didn't know there was 175 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: any water here. But she could see right away that 176 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: that in the adjacent buildings to the to the gatehouse 177 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: there were two dancing studios because there was a bar 178 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: that had carriages in it still in it, and then 179 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: one barn that had stalls for horses. So she saw 180 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: that right away, and she said, all I have to 181 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,839 Speaker 1: do is stoop those take those that stuff out of 182 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: there and put in a dance floor, and I'm set 183 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: to go to big dancing studios. But anyway, yeah, a 184 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 1: minute she saw this, she knew this was right for her. 185 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: She liked the way the house looked, and she felt 186 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: that there was room in the bedrooms to house the campers, 187 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 1: and the dining room looked big enough. It wasn't, but 188 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 1: she thought It did looked big enough, and the kitchen 189 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: was fine. It was a real commercial kitchen already. But 190 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: it was the dancing studios that the two's places adjacent 191 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: to the gatehouse. There were horse equipment to the lower 192 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: studio and stalls, and the upper studio had carriages. How 193 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: did she so we're talking about if this is the 194 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: seventieth anniversary of the camp, we're talking about nineteen fifty 195 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: three fifty four setting it up. It was very difficul 196 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: for women to start businesses at that time. Access capital, 197 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: file paper were The biggest problem was buying the property. 198 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: They wouldn't let my mother buy it or finance it. 199 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: But my father signed for it, and he never had 200 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,319 Speaker 1: anything to do with the camp. It was my mother's camp. 201 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: He bought the camp for my mother, but he paid 202 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 1: cash for the mostly cash for the buildings, and we 203 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: bought them from a company that had never had owned 204 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,199 Speaker 1: it for three years but never been here. They were 205 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: a company that were planning to store papers in the 206 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: basement of this house because it was a safe location 207 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: during what was after the second word ward was the 208 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: potential war? Was there? I feel like that was very 209 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 1: forward culturally for both your mother to be envisioning herself 210 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: as the business owner and operator at the time when 211 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 1: many women were not. Oh. Yes, and of your father 212 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: to be supporting her in it was that a dynamic 213 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: that you felt as a child. Yes, I felt that 214 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: my mother was the brains of the outfit, and my 215 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 1: father did the work. And my father was very generous 216 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: and very supportive of the three of us and three 217 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: women in the family, and he always wanted what was 218 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: the best for us. And my mother really wanted to 219 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,359 Speaker 1: do this, and my sister was going to be benefiting 220 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 1: from it greatly, and I was excited about it too. 221 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: She asked me if I would come and work, and 222 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: because I was a person who knew about camp, and 223 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 1: I said, of course. It was really interested me going 224 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: along with my career of teaching. My idea was that 225 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: I would be teaching like in a Newton of Brookline 226 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 1: public school, and then I would come for the summers 227 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: to the camp and I would do the paperwork and 228 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 1: stuff or that was necessary for the camp, in addition 229 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: to my being an English teacher. And that's factly what happened. 230 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:47,439 Speaker 1: But I knew when she brought the camp. I was 231 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 1: a sophomore at brynmar and she asked me would I 232 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: come and be be there full time and be really 233 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,839 Speaker 1: involved with the camp, And she said she was taking 234 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: a chance, but she would get a director from Tampoline. 235 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: We had decided on that and that I would work 236 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: and be a counselor and be a teacher and do 237 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: whatever has to be done. But anyhow, yeah, my mother 238 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: and I were going to run the camp, and my 239 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: father just signed the sheep for the bank. So you 240 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: graduated Bryn Martin. I graduated Brym MAARM. By that time, 241 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: I was already committed to Harvard. When I was a 242 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: junior at college, I applied to graduate school and at 243 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,439 Speaker 1: Harvard to a summer program that they run in Newton 244 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: public schools. And I was in a hurry to get 245 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 1: a teaching certificate because I had a boyfriend that I 246 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: thought was going to marry me. It didn't happen, but anyway, 247 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: and he was moving to Harvard Medical School, and I thought, 248 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 1: you know, I better get on the stick and see 249 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 1: if I can get a teaching job to help this guy. 250 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: So I applied to Harvard when I was a junior, 251 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: and they rejected me because he had to be a 252 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: college graduate to go to this program. So I talked 253 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: to my advisor of bryn Maher and she said, go 254 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: and see the president. They'll fix this view. So I 255 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: went to see the president of bryn Mars, Katherine McBride 256 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: at the time. I said to her, I really want 257 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: to go to Harvard this year because I want to 258 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: be certified to teach the following year. So the president 259 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: called up the president of Harvard and she said, this 260 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: is Sally McBride calling from Bryn Marr. You made a mistake. 261 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: This girl needs to go to Britain to Harvard this summer, 262 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: and I guarantee that she can do the work and 263 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: will be a plus. She's got a lot of years 264 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 1: of camping experience working with children. She's going to be 265 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: more skilled at working with children than the other people 266 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: who come just out of college from Vasser and bryn 267 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: Maher and Radcliffe and Smith. That's who's there. The women 268 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: that were there were all from the IVY schools and 269 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: the men the same. It was a co ed program, 270 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: but whoever they were, and they were all year older 271 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: than me, and nobody had as much experience with kids 272 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: as me. But Habrid was very interesting to me because 273 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: the president of bryn maher had called the head of 274 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: the School of Education. When he met me. He was very, 275 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: very observant, and he made a lot of positive work 276 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: with me. I was sort of special because I was 277 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: a year ahead, and I think it was worked out 278 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: very well for me at Harvard. I thought that the 279 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: program at Harvard and the School of Education was solid, 280 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: but I went to I got a job right away 281 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: based on the summer program. When I graduated from Vermont, 282 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: Newton and Brookline were both fighting over me. The people 283 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: at Harvard wanted me to stay in the Harvard Newton 284 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: program and to stay in Newton, and the Newton High 285 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: School hired me immediately. They were fighting over me. I 286 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: don't believe it. I was worried that I wouldn't get 287 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: a job, and both towns that had good public schools 288 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: were interested in me as a teacher, and I took 289 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: the first year job and many jobs thereafter. In the 290 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: Newton public system, you always stayed in Newton. I always 291 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: stayed in Newton, and I went to Bethesda for a 292 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: few years. In between, I went to DC. My husband 293 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: was and then I aged the Research Institute, and then 294 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: he was at Georgetown, so I lived in Bethesda and 295 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: I lived in Georgetown. Both of my daughters were born 296 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: in DC. So, okay, so you were just in DC 297 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: for a couple of years, and then did you go 298 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: back to Boston to Newton. Yes, we went back, and 299 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: this time we went to Newton, not Procline, and we 300 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: purchased a house. My mother helped us. We purchased a 301 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: house on West Newton Hill, which turned out to be 302 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: very close to Newton North, and the head of the 303 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: English department hired me right away. Harvard sent me there 304 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: and they hired me right away. And the first year 305 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: I was teaching was a really successful year for me. 306 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: There were four of us on the top of building, 307 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: one the top floor of fourth floor of building, one 308 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: very old building, and I had the old art room. 309 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: It had skylights, it was a gorgeous room. And I 310 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: had four classes, and there were three other English teachers 311 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: on the floor, but they had all finished the degree 312 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: except for me. I had only done two summers. I 313 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 1: hadn't done a year at all. But then I took 314 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: a year off eventually and finished the degree. So I 315 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: think that, yeah, I think teaching you can either teach 316 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: people or you can't teach people. I think that I 317 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: was good at planning lessons and I was good at 318 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: letting the lessons fly if something came up that seemed 319 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: more pertinent at the moment. And I think that all 320 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: my experience at camping really made a difference to my 321 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,439 Speaker 1: career as a teacher. When we first were at Harvard 322 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: Newton the first summer I was there, the other people 323 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: didn't know anything about planning ahead and letting the plant go, 324 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: And that seemed to me what camping is about. You 325 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:49,479 Speaker 1: have to know what you're doing when the kids are 326 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 1: coming there, but when the kids get there, it may 327 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: not be what you do. You may have to go 328 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: with something else that they introduce. 329 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,360 Speaker 2: So when we come back, Nancy talks about her two 330 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 2: daughters and the difficulties behind her marriage to her ex husband. Plus, 331 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 2: Nancy talks about how she was instrumental in starting Steps 332 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 2: dance studio. Yes, that Step studio stay tuned. 333 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: So when you married and had kids, did your husband 334 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: and kids come with you to Belvoar when you were 335 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: working here the first few summers, I had a babysitter. 336 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,159 Speaker 1: I lived in a cottage, and my husband went to 337 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: his job, which was in bust and at the time 338 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: came up occasionally, but my girls were with me and 339 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,439 Speaker 1: I had a babysitter, and I'm still in touch with 340 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: that babysitter. She's from the Midwest and her husband just 341 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: died this past year, but she has three children and 342 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: they're all doing well, and she's doing well. She and 343 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: I are still in touch. So she came for two summers, Donna, 344 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: and she loved it here, and she just took care 345 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,680 Speaker 1: of the kids and took them around a different names activities, 346 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: took them to finger painting and painting, and she let 347 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: them watch the dancing. And one was born in April, 348 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: the other one was born in June, and they were 349 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 1: both here for some of their lives. Their whole lives, 350 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: they've been coming here. He was never happy with what 351 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: he had for a job. And I think if men 352 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: are unhappy, if men or women are unhappy with their work, 353 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: that makes life very difficult for their spouse and their family. 354 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 1: And I think that was the situation in our family, 355 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,880 Speaker 1: that he was never happy with his work. As long 356 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: as I've known you and and your mother, you always 357 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: came across as both very satisfied with your job, but 358 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: also very secure well I've been very lucky because I've 359 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: always had some sort of interesting career. I did a 360 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 1: few other interesting careers when I first moved to New York. 361 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: So somehow I got involved with Step Studio. The way 362 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: I got involved is Michelle. She was teaching here in 363 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 1: the summer, needed work, and I got her into LaGuardia 364 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: High School. I called the woman there and I talked 365 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: her into Michelle. And then Michelle needed an apartment and 366 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,679 Speaker 1: I lied on the form that how much money she 367 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: was making. She was making three thousand, and I wrote 368 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: down thirty thousand. So she got the apartment that she wanted, 369 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,919 Speaker 1: and eventually she sold the house that she bought an 370 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 1: apartment at a Brownstone. Eventually she sold the brownstone, made 371 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 1: a fortune. So Michelle is still very friendly with me. 372 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: But anyway, somebody told me that they wanted a dancing 373 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: school at the Hebrew Art School, and I went to 374 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 1: see the woman there. It was one of the staff 375 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:42,880 Speaker 1: I worked here, had actually taught guitar here. She told 376 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: me to go and see this woman. So I went 377 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 1: to see this woman. The woman said she liked to 378 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: have a dancing school, and she has these two spaces 379 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:53,640 Speaker 1: that have mirrors and dressing rooms and pianos, and somebody 380 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: told her that could be a dancing school. I said, 381 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 1: all right, I'll think about it. If I run a 382 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: dancing school, I have to run it. And then Nancy 383 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: Pierce went home and she called me and she said, listen, 384 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: I have a whole slew of dance students here, and 385 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: if you want to open up at the Hebrew d School, 386 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: I'm going to bring everybody with me. Michelle and I 387 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,120 Speaker 1: are coming and we're bringing all the school kids with us. Yeah, 388 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: you're going to have a big business the day you open. 389 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 2: And Steps was born and has become the most famous 390 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 2: dance studio in New York. When we come back, Nancy 391 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 2: talks about how she started a renowned musical program for 392 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:36,199 Speaker 2: those with a rare genetic condition called William syndrome, and 393 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 2: how not only did she change their lives, but they 394 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:47,439 Speaker 2: changed hers. So tell us a little bit about william 395 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 2: syndrome and how you became acquainted with them. 396 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: There was a man who had a very exceptional Williams child, Gloria, 397 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: and he grew up in Pittsfield and he had a 398 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 1: friend who delivered meets here wholesale meat dealer and the 399 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:10,919 Speaker 1: meat dealer told this guy, his friend from high school, 400 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: that there was a music camp in Lenox that he served, 401 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 1: and they should come and see whether we would do 402 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:22,679 Speaker 1: something for Gloria because she was playing the piano, the accordion, 403 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: and singing opera in a million different languages a musical 404 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: theater as well, and she was forty years old, but 405 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: she was not able to add six and four and 406 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: not able to cross the street by herself because she 407 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: couldn't see where the sidewalk ended in the street began. 408 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 1: Gloria's father called me and said, would I consider doing 409 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 1: a program for these Williams people? If he got thirty people, 410 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 1: would I take thirty people like this and give them 411 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: music in camp and let them get together and try music, 412 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,120 Speaker 1: because he said, they're all musical, but their parents don't 413 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 1: know that and don't believe it, but I can prove it. 414 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: So he brought Gloria here to the gatehouse and she 415 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:05,959 Speaker 1: sat down. You know, he sat down, He said, Gloria, 416 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: sit down. Gloria sat down. She stayed sill, and then 417 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: he said to her, now, Gloria, you stand up and 418 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: sing some opera. And she stood up and she's sang 419 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: Italian perfectly, and then she said French perfectly, and then 420 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: she said English perfectly, and then she did a music 421 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:28,360 Speaker 1: theater number. And then she said to me, is that okay, Nancy? 422 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: I said, it's better than okay, Gloria. It's fantastic. It's 423 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 1: absolutely wonderful that you can do all those things, and 424 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: you should keep doing them, and you should do them 425 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 1: for people to hear you, and you should do it 426 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: for people to know that William syndrome people can do 427 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: this kind of thing. And if I run a camp, 428 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: we'll collect a lot of William's people and will show 429 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: them that they can do what you do if they 430 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: work hard. Tell me about how you learned all that. 431 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: And she proceeded to tell me that she had all 432 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,640 Speaker 1: these lessons and that she practiced every day with a machine. 433 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: And you know she's she worked hard to get where 434 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 1: she was getting, but she loved it made her very 435 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 1: very happy. And I said, you made me very happy, 436 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: and you make your father made everybody who hears you 437 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: happy because it's so beautifully done. Music is a language 438 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:26,160 Speaker 1: that speaks to everybody. So I said to them right 439 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,159 Speaker 1: then and there, if they could get twenty five kids, 440 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 1: we were in business, and he said he's sure that 441 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 1: he can get more than twenty five. How many will 442 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:36,880 Speaker 1: I take? How many campers did you have the first 443 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 1: year over thirty between thirty and forty, and the ages 444 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:46,399 Speaker 1: were twelve to forty, with most of them in the middle. 445 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,959 Speaker 1: I came as a counselor for that week for probably 446 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,159 Speaker 1: five or six years, and one of the things that 447 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 1: struck me is they were so friendly and so loving 448 00:24:57,880 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: and open. 449 00:24:59,160 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 2: You know. 450 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,479 Speaker 1: I think these people when they came together for the 451 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: first time, some of them had never seen another kid 452 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: that looked like them, so they found a population of 453 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 1: people like themselves, so right then and there, that made 454 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: a difference to them. And then they did music mostly 455 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: all day, and when they walked from place to place. 456 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember, they always sang and 457 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: they always harmonize. A lot of them harmonized. You've got 458 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: to put some people on the melody or they don't 459 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: do the melody. But they have exceptional gifts, these particular people. 460 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: And I think what's really grown out of the Williams 461 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 1: camp that we ran in the college that they're running 462 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:42,439 Speaker 1: now is that they have adjusted to who they are 463 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: and they are happy and successful, and most of them 464 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: are doing music as a livelihood. It's unbelievable. It's amazing. 465 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: So let's get to the college. So you ran the camp. 466 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: Sixty minutes ran a piece about the camp, right, Yeah, 467 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: sixty minutes ran a piece about the camp, and the 468 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: guy at eleven thirty news also ranted. And this was 469 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 1: wonderful because nobody, even the doctors, didn't know what it was. 470 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,479 Speaker 1: The local doctors up here never heard of it. And 471 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 1: when I told them I was having it, they said, 472 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:18,880 Speaker 1: who know what? We don't know. So because of the public, 473 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: we got The New York Times wrote anauticle. The Boston 474 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:26,679 Speaker 1: Globe wrote anautical. We got recognition for these people, and 475 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,120 Speaker 1: subsequently we got the college. Yeah, so tell us about 476 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: the college. So during the Williams camp, we could see 477 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: a huge difference in the kids. Being together was very important. 478 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 1: Being in a structured environment with classes that contain music 479 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: was really important. As long as you had music going, 480 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: they could do anything you asked them to do. But 481 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: they did so well at the camp, and they wanted 482 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,400 Speaker 1: to stay together, and they didn't have anywhere to go. 483 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: So the same guy who started the camp was for 484 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 1: a college, and so we talked when we had the 485 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: parents here about how we could do that, and one 486 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: of the women actually John Lebar's mother, and said she's 487 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: going to find a place in Massachusetts, and she did. 488 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: She found that Mount Holyio College had a building that 489 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 1: they wanted to get rid of. It has a big 490 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: estate and somebody wanted to make it into condos and 491 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,439 Speaker 1: Mount Holyoke didn't want to have condos across the street 492 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: from their campus. So this seemed like a possible place 493 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 1: for them to get a school building that they would 494 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 1: be much more interested in helping this group of people 495 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,120 Speaker 1: to live in South Hadley and they're still living there. 496 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 1: All of them are graduated from the college and they're 497 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 1: all living in South Hamley independently. So it's worked out 498 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 1: for Mount Holyio College to have them there, and it 499 00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: worked out for them. The premise of this show is 500 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: that for decades we've had these narratives that we make 501 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 1: career choices just based on career factors, like taking a 502 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: job because it makes more money or has more prestige 503 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,160 Speaker 1: or works out, but that in reality, we've always made 504 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,679 Speaker 1: career decisions based on a combination of personal and professional factors. 505 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: Do you think you've done that in your life, Yes, 506 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: I do. I think that I've never been worried about money, 507 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: and it's never been part of the choice. I think 508 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: that I've taken many different jobs and I would still 509 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 1: do that. That seem to be important to me in 510 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: terms of helping others, but also important to me in 511 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: terms of challenging me to do something interesting. I mean, 512 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: the reason I was running the dancing schools was not 513 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 1: to make money. I didn't make any money at all, 514 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: but I was challenged to see if I could do it. 515 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: Could I run a big dancing school in New York 516 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: City like steps. I think that people have to make 517 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: choices that are going to enrich their lives and the 518 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: lives of others. And I think it's good to change careers. 519 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: I think every time you do something a little different, 520 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 1: you're learning something. And I think learning is what keeps 521 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: you alive. When you stop learning, what is there you 522 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 1: have to keep growing? And I think this thing you're 523 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: doing about changing careers is really important because I think 524 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: every time you change, you learn something, and every time 525 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: you learn something, you're more alive than you were before. 526 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 1: So I think that I've changed a lot of jobs 527 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: just by accident. Some by interest, some by people asking me. 528 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: But whatever it was, I think it was worthwhile. 529 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 2: I know you think about it, it's like what do 530 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 2: you want to pass on? Like what do you want 531 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 2: future generations to know? What do you want kids today 532 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 2: to know? What do you want adults today to know? 533 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: I want people to know that every person can develop 534 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: themselves to be the best that they can be, as 535 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 1: long as they accept who they are and get on 536 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: with it. And I want to encourage people to be moral, 537 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: to be Christian, Jewish, whatever religion, but to have some 538 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,959 Speaker 1: center that has some soul and some power right from wrong. 539 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: I think that that's very important. And the world is 540 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: so busy today and there's so much noise out there. 541 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: I think it's more important than ever for people to 542 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 1: have a strong center that's moral, that's educational, that's empathetic, 543 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: that has value, that is historically important, and I think 544 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 1: in this very busy, very noisy world, it's more important 545 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: than ever. I think that Belvoir is a good place 546 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: to get that type of grounding. Do you think there's 547 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: something that happened to you where you went through in 548 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 1: your life where at the time you saw it as 549 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: a real negative, like a real low and in retrospect, 550 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: put you on the path that you are on now. 551 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: I had a really terrible marriage, but I survived it, 552 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 1: and I think lar's the girl's decision to go to 553 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 1: the Juilliard School and my move to New York was 554 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: a really big change. I think situations have changed my path. 555 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 1: But I want to be free to make choices with 556 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: my time. If I want to go to the theater 557 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: with somebody, if I want to do something with Pedro, 558 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 1: if I want to do something with one of my daughters, 559 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: I don't want to have a commitment that I made 560 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 1: that's going to screw that up. I want to be 561 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: available from my children and my business, you know, to 562 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 1: help Diane. I want to be available, but I am 563 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 1: interested in doing new things. What do you want your 564 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: legacy to be? Well, I think my legacy to be 565 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: is that I've been trying to help people for years 566 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: as a teacher and as an example of working hard 567 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 1: and trying to do the right thing. And I think 568 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: that you can't be sure where your legacy is going 569 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 1: to be. And I don't worry about it. I worry 570 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: about day to day. What am I doing today that's 571 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: useful and helpful is what I think about. I can't 572 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: worry about my legacy. I think my legacy will just happen. Nancy, 573 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 1: thank you so much. It's my pleasure. 574 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 2: Nancy and her daughter Diane continue to run Belvoir Terrasts, 575 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 2: and I'm lucky enough to go back to visit every 576 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 2: year for family camp at the end of the season 577 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,040 Speaker 2: with my kids. When we're there, my kids get to 578 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 2: learn from these unbelievable instructors in the arts and dance, 579 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 2: and also in sports and tennis and archery, which they love. 580 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 2: They tried guitar for the first time. Part of what 581 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 2: I love but bringing my kids there and what I 582 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 2: hope to one day send my daughters there new experience 583 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 2: is that yes, it's about the arts, but it's really 584 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 2: about confident young women learning through the arts. If you 585 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 2: are someone you know would like to send their daughters 586 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 2: to belvar I cannot recommend it enough. 587 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: You can visit their website. 588 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 2: At Belvoir Terras dot com to learn more. Thanks for listening. 589 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 2: Special thanks to the she Pivots team. Executive producer Emily 590 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 2: eda Flosk, Associate producer and social media connoisseur Hannah Cousins, 591 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 2: Research director Christine Dickinson, Events and Logistics coordinator Madeline Snovak, 592 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 2: and audio editor and mixer Nina pollock I endorse Che 593 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 2: Pivots