Speaker 1: Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production of I Heart Radios
Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff.
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio and I love all things tech. And
Speaker 1: we are wrapping up some classic episodes while I get
Speaker 1: back into the swing of things getting new material out
Speaker 1: for you. Brand new episodes will be coming soon. But
Speaker 1: today we're going to listen to a classic episode that
Speaker 1: originally published way back on June eight, two thousand eleven.
Speaker 1: It is titled what is Gamification? And this is a
Speaker 1: concept that has become an underlying principle of tons of
Speaker 1: different businesses. It was a huge thing back in two eleven.
Speaker 1: It's still a big thing today. So what is it? Well,
Speaker 1: Chris Poulette and I are going to tell you. Enjoy.
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about gamification today, which is kind
Speaker 1: of a buzzword right now. It's been a buzzword for
Speaker 1: a couple of years, particularly in the tech industry, but
Speaker 1: it extends beyond just the tech industry. Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: This is Uh, it's funny because it's it's not really
Speaker 1: a tech topic in a way, because uh, this is
Speaker 1: a this is a human engineering or you know, cognitive engineering. Short,
Speaker 1: it's not it's not so much related to a specific
Speaker 1: type of technology, but I think in a lot of
Speaker 1: ways it can be traced back to technology. Yeah, basically
Speaker 1: what gamification is and you can probably figure it out
Speaker 1: just based on the word. It's applying game thinking and
Speaker 1: game mechanics to tasks in order to kind of create
Speaker 1: an extra layer on top of those tasks. And there
Speaker 1: are a lot of different examples. In fact, we've talked
Speaker 1: about some of them already. We have indeed, sure like
Speaker 1: um like geo cashing. Geo cashing, I would argue, is
Speaker 1: a kind of gamification to take a basic basic activity,
Speaker 1: which in in geo cashing, you could call it either
Speaker 1: hiking or if you wanted to, even exploring, and then
Speaker 1: you add a game element on top of it. In
Speaker 1: this case, it might be things like the you know,
Speaker 1: you have a set of coordinates and you follow it,
Speaker 1: and then when you get there, there's a little cash
Speaker 1: of of goodies that's inside a box at that particular location,
Speaker 1: and then you get to take something and maybe you
Speaker 1: leave something behind as well, and that's the game element
Speaker 1: to it. And as you continue to geo cash, you
Speaker 1: accumulate these little tokens or whatever, and you leave your
Speaker 1: own possibly personalized calling card behind at these various geo cashes,
Speaker 1: so that other people who are following they may say, Hell, hey,
Speaker 1: this guy, I've seen this guy's stuff before. This guy
Speaker 1: was at this other geo cash before. I don't know
Speaker 1: who he is or or I don't know who she is,
Speaker 1: but I know that they always leave, you know whatever,
Speaker 1: like a Smurf figurine. You know. So that's that's an
Speaker 1: example of gamification. It's adding this element of gameplay on
Speaker 1: top of another activity. Yes, see, I I blame Mary Poppins.
Speaker 1: She did say that in every job there must be done,
Speaker 1: there is an element of fun. You find the fun
Speaker 1: and snap, the job's a game. Well, actually that was
Speaker 1: pretty wise because it's it's everywhere these days. It's easy
Speaker 1: to see, uh in games. You know, and a lot
Speaker 1: of our listeners are very serious video play, video game players,
Speaker 1: video play gamers, um. But sometimes I would not put
Speaker 1: it past them. But yeah, all those achievements that you unlock, um,
Speaker 1: you know, you unlock a new character in the game,
Speaker 1: you unlock a new scenario, you get a badge for
Speaker 1: running fifty missions, that's that stuff is gamification, and that's
Speaker 1: and it's weird to think of gamification on top of games,
Speaker 1: but it is adding another element, for example. And the
Speaker 1: purpose in technology generally tends to be one of two things.
Speaker 1: You're either trying to teach a concept and you're using
Speaker 1: gamification to entice people to learn about that concept by
Speaker 1: by creating a sort of a reward system really for
Speaker 1: them to participate, and the reward system keeps them going.
Speaker 1: And the other related idea is engagement. Now, engagement is
Speaker 1: one of those terms you're gonna hear a lot in
Speaker 1: technology companies. Engagement is this elusive thing everyone's going after,
Speaker 1: and that is not just attracting an audience, but keeping
Speaker 1: that audience and keeping them coming back to you and
Speaker 1: and to have them invested in your product over a
Speaker 1: long term. Because if someone just comes to you once
Speaker 1: and then they never come back, then you know you
Speaker 1: only benefit from that relationship the one time. So what
Speaker 1: you really want to do is you want to create
Speaker 1: an experience or a product that has people coming back
Speaker 1: to you over and over again. And uh, this can
Speaker 1: be hardware, it can be software, it can be a service,
Speaker 1: it can be an activity like I said with geo cashing.
Speaker 1: Letter boxing is another great example. Letter boxing again is
Speaker 1: treasure hunting, and there's a whole range of game systems
Speaker 1: that are put on top of letter boxing that that
Speaker 1: make it really an engaging activity for people who get
Speaker 1: into it. And so gamification, it's it's something that people
Speaker 1: have been doing for centuries. I mean, they've been throwing
Speaker 1: games on top of stuff for as long as there
Speaker 1: have been games, really, but it's only been in the
Speaker 1: last couple of years that that's kind of become a
Speaker 1: buzzword where people are concentrating on ways to create game
Speaker 1: elements on top of whatever it is they're offering in
Speaker 1: order to get that level of engagement they're looking for. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and they're they're all kinds of applications for this. I mean, um,
Speaker 1: some of you who have mobile devices like to check
Speaker 1: in on things like go Wala or four square or
Speaker 1: Scavenger if you like, and scavin you know, let's let's
Speaker 1: start with four Square then of the Scavenger, because Scavenger
Speaker 1: is kind of like a very specific twist on four square. Well,
Speaker 1: it's funny because um, these these I don't know, they're
Speaker 1: really not technically games. Um, they're badges that you can
Speaker 1: earn in four square. For example, Yeah, that and and uh,
Speaker 1: that would be I would say the oldest of the
Speaker 1: three four square. You know, once you count create an
Speaker 1: account on four square and you have a GPS enabled phone. Um.
Speaker 1: Basically you're asked to check in when when you go
Speaker 1: to someplace, so you know, you get to work. Um,
Speaker 1: you say, okay, I'm here at work, um, and it
Speaker 1: will tell you, for example, how many of your how
Speaker 1: many people are there, and how many people possibly who
Speaker 1: they are? Yeah, if you if you're friends with them,
Speaker 1: I will tell you if your friends are there. It
Speaker 1: may even tell you if your friends are nearby. If
Speaker 1: they're not like right where you are, but they're in
Speaker 1: the area, it might tell you that. It gives you
Speaker 1: an opportunity to share that on Facebook and Twitter. It
Speaker 1: gives you opportunity over time to become the mayor of
Speaker 1: a location. So that's the first layer of gamification, right there,
Speaker 1: is becoming the mayor, because then you have us You
Speaker 1: have attached a status to this service, and status is
Speaker 1: really important to people. People like having high status. It's
Speaker 1: good to be the king. Yeah, it makes you feel important, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's we all get this like it
Speaker 1: it just if it feels good. So the mayor idea
Speaker 1: makes perfect sense. You you know, you could argue, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just it just means that you have a smartphone
Speaker 1: and you've been here a lot. It doesn't that's all
Speaker 1: it means. But you could say, yeah, but you know,
Speaker 1: I've achieved something. I am a mayor here. And then
Speaker 1: then they have these badges that they have all four
Speaker 1: square that you get. You you earn these badges by
Speaker 1: checking into specific types of locations, or perhaps the location
Speaker 1: you're checking into has a particular feature, Like there's one
Speaker 1: that if you've you've checked into at least three places
Speaker 1: that have a photo booth, you get a certain badge. Um,
Speaker 1: there are there are badges where if you check into
Speaker 1: a place that has a lot of other people, they
Speaker 1: have swarm badges and they have different levels of swarm.
Speaker 1: So the more people who are there, the Like if
Speaker 1: you have like two hundred or five hundred or a
Speaker 1: thousand people, you'll get a different level of swarm badge
Speaker 1: for checking in. So if you guys want swarm badges,
Speaker 1: here's where you gotta go. You have to go to
Speaker 1: either South by Southwest or c E S. And I
Speaker 1: guarantee you because that's where all the tech people are
Speaker 1: and they all love to use these things. That's where
Speaker 1: you're gonna get the best chance to really earn one
Speaker 1: those badges. You can also earn them an other like
Speaker 1: really popular places like say Disney World or Disneyland. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Actually that's that's a good point. Go Wala has a
Speaker 1: feature on it that allows you that where in which
Speaker 1: they have certain tours where you collect if you go
Speaker 1: to someplace like disney World, Um, you're supposed to. If
Speaker 1: you go to all the different places, they'll have like
Speaker 1: a subset of badges there and it's sort of like
Speaker 1: a can you collect all twelve of these locations? You know,
Speaker 1: see if you can check in at all these different spots,
Speaker 1: um and then and that really can do that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it really drives engagement. Like we said, like if four
Speaker 1: Square did not have the badges and did not have
Speaker 1: the mayor element to it, then there would be I'm
Speaker 1: sure there would be a significant drop off of the
Speaker 1: number of people who would use the service a couple
Speaker 1: of times and then we'll just never come back to it.
Speaker 1: There would be a lot more of those people right,
Speaker 1: and they're there already are those people. And it's not
Speaker 1: like we're saying that these things make you stay, but
Speaker 1: they are incentives for certain people to keep trying to
Speaker 1: use this this uh um service. I know as as
Speaker 1: mayor of how stuff works. As of the recording of
Speaker 1: this podcast, I get really really cheesed off when Brian
Speaker 1: steals my mayorship. And that's gone back and forth between
Speaker 1: the two of us at least five times already. Brian
Speaker 1: and I we tend to steal this. I become mayor,
Speaker 1: then like a week later he's the mayor, and then
Speaker 1: I'm the mayor again. And I mean there is a
Speaker 1: there's a definite competitive element to know you want to
Speaker 1: become the mayor, Like there's a there's a certain level
Speaker 1: satisfaction of stealing the may air from someone else. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: um And uh Goala also offers uh something, a little
Speaker 1: something that four Square doesn't that I think is kind
Speaker 1: of cool. Um. The company that makes uh Goala is
Speaker 1: called Alamo Fire. They're based in Texas, and they have
Speaker 1: a They also if you've ever played the Facebook collecting
Speaker 1: game pack Rat, they also do that. They have some
Speaker 1: pretty cool art and that's one of those things. That's
Speaker 1: really neat because they come up with UM badges for
Speaker 1: certain locations, certain stores and other places. So it's kind
Speaker 1: of fun to collect those stickers because they may be
Speaker 1: sort of unique. And you like geo caash and you
Speaker 1: drop and pick up items when you go places. You
Speaker 1: might know, if you go to a bookstore, you might
Speaker 1: get a typewriter or what they call a page turner
Speaker 1: a book um, and it has a collector's number on
Speaker 1: their number, you know, one thousand and fifty four, um,
Speaker 1: so you know when they launched that particular item, and
Speaker 1: so you uh, that kind of keeps you going because
Speaker 1: you go, okay, well I've gotten these things, or hey,
Speaker 1: look at that they made a new one for for
Speaker 1: this intation. Um. You might say, though, what's in this?
Speaker 1: Why why would anybody do this? Well, companies, uh, these stores,
Speaker 1: for example, have realized that they can offer people using
Speaker 1: these services a little something extra. You might find if
Speaker 1: you're using four square uh a coupon. Yeah. Uh. You
Speaker 1: know they go to this hotel and tell us that
Speaker 1: you saw this special on four square and we'll give
Speaker 1: you ten percent off your stay. Yeah we um. I
Speaker 1: went to a restaurant at Universal uh the Universal Islands
Speaker 1: of Adventure Properties, and they had it where if you
Speaker 1: showed that you checked in on four Square that you
Speaker 1: would get a free cocktail. Interesting free my tie and uh,
Speaker 1: it's a problem for you. Yeah, I don't drink. For
Speaker 1: for folks listening to the podcast, I'm not a drinker
Speaker 1: at all. So my wife got to my ties and
Speaker 1: because she checked into four square and I checked into
Speaker 1: fourth Square, and my wife was very happy. At the
Speaker 1: end of the dinner, she said it was the best
Speaker 1: dinner ever. Um, getting around of the fountain was a
Speaker 1: bit of a challenge. But no, I'm joking. I'm joking.
Speaker 1: I love you, Rebecca. Guys have just wrote doubles. It
Speaker 1: means that I'm gonna have to lose a turn. So
Speaker 1: while I'm waiting for my turn to come back around,
Speaker 1: let's let's take a break and think our sponsors. There's
Speaker 1: this element of tempting people to come into places by
Speaker 1: having this this special deal, right, that's one way you
Speaker 1: can you you as a as a vendor, as a
Speaker 1: as a retail operator or restaurant operator. That's one way
Speaker 1: you would you might want to leverage these services or
Speaker 1: that this gamification is that it's a way to lure
Speaker 1: people into your your place. Uh, Scavenger, Like you were saying,
Speaker 1: Scavenger is kind of an interesting thing and that it
Speaker 1: adds another level level of gameplay to to checking into locations.
Speaker 1: I first started using Scavenger at CS so this past
Speaker 1: the e s as of the recording of this podcast.
Speaker 1: And you would go to a booth and you would
Speaker 1: you know, I went to a booth and they had
Speaker 1: me sign up for Scavenger and they said, all right,
Speaker 1: now walk around the booth and you're gonna see different
Speaker 1: tasks that you need to complete in order to win points.
Speaker 1: And then at the end of the day there's gonna
Speaker 1: be a drawing for a prize, and the number of
Speaker 1: times you're entered into the prize will be dependent upon
Speaker 1: how many points you burned, so the more points you
Speaker 1: are and the more chances you have to win. And
Speaker 1: it was things like find out how many uh how
Speaker 1: far down this waterproof watch can go before before it's
Speaker 1: no longer rated for that depth, stuff like that, where
Speaker 1: is John Cameron Swayze when you need him? Right? So
Speaker 1: you would have to go over to that part of
Speaker 1: the booth and find that device and learn you might
Speaker 1: even have to talk to one of the one of
Speaker 1: the representatives there to get the information. Then you have
Speaker 1: to go into the app and text that in for
Speaker 1: nation in for it to be verified so that you
Speaker 1: would get those points. Or it might be get a
Speaker 1: picture of this one gadget, uh that's located somewhere in
Speaker 1: the booth and you would have to go through the
Speaker 1: booth and find it. Well, for those people, the people
Speaker 1: at that these booths, every time you're going through and
Speaker 1: completing one of these tasks, now in your mind you're thinking,
Speaker 1: I need more points. I need to get more points
Speaker 1: because then I can win. Uh. What they're thinking is
Speaker 1: by making you go to all these different sections of
Speaker 1: the booth, you are building more awareness of their brand
Speaker 1: and that you might not be very conscious about it,
Speaker 1: but that you're gonna take home this experience. You're gonna think,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that that laptop. I remember I
Speaker 1: saw it at such and such booth because I played
Speaker 1: that game. And for them, that's where it pays off.
Speaker 1: It's like marketing, right, it's a way to build awareness.
Speaker 1: And they didn't have to buy a commercial. All he
Speaker 1: did was put this stuff into an app and they
Speaker 1: let you do all the work, and because there's that
Speaker 1: reward system, because there's points involved and there's a competition,
Speaker 1: everybody really comes out a winner because the user gets
Speaker 1: the feeling of accomplishment as they build points, and the
Speaker 1: vendor gets the feeling of hey, we've got a successful
Speaker 1: marketing campaign. It's not like one of those things where
Speaker 1: you know, you feel I wouldn't think that as a user,
Speaker 1: I would feel like I was quote unquote used right
Speaker 1: because I got something else out of it. It wasn't
Speaker 1: just you know, having to walk around. I was doing
Speaker 1: it voluntarily because it meant that I was earning points.
Speaker 1: And that's a lot of Uh, that's that's one side
Speaker 1: of gamification is really you know, you've designed this this
Speaker 1: level of games to to reward people but also to
Speaker 1: keep them coming back to you. But there's another level
Speaker 1: of gamification too, there's a problem solving and learning side
Speaker 1: of gamification. Oh, absolutely, absolutely, um the In fact, there
Speaker 1: have been some projects that have been using gamification as
Speaker 1: a way to in as an incentive for other people
Speaker 1: to participate. We've talked about crowdsourcing some on the on
Speaker 1: the show, um where basically, look, I've got a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff to do for example the cety at Home
Speaker 1: project as as an example we've used before where UM
Speaker 1: scientists were collecting a mountain of information through radio telescopes
Speaker 1: and they just didn't have the computing power to process
Speaker 1: it all in a timely manner to see if there
Speaker 1: was any kind of discernible signal in all the noise
Speaker 1: they were getting from space. Um, So they enlisted the
Speaker 1: help of many, many people. Hey, look, we've got a
Speaker 1: little application that you can install on your computer. It
Speaker 1: will help us crunch the numbers that we're getting back
Speaker 1: from space and in the background, you don't have to
Speaker 1: do anything. Yeah, and and it was a pretty cool
Speaker 1: screen saver as well. UM. So it looks like it's
Speaker 1: doing something really cool. And basically when you share the
Speaker 1: information back with them, it's it comes to them in
Speaker 1: a form that they can use and quickly scan to
Speaker 1: see if there's any value in it. Um. Also, hey,
Speaker 1: a little bit of gamification. Before gamification was a word, UM,
Speaker 1: I think. Uh, they offered you the chance. They said, hey, look,
Speaker 1: if we find somebody out there, uh, you know, you'll
Speaker 1: have some credit for that. So you you do get
Speaker 1: a little something. You get a share in the prize
Speaker 1: it's I guess it's not a prize problem. You essentially
Speaker 1: your name is associated with what could arguably be the
Speaker 1: biggest scientific discovery since ever. Yeah, but they're doing that
Speaker 1: with all kinds of other projects now too, where they
Speaker 1: offer you the opportunity to participate in the project and
Speaker 1: they'll give you a badge for getting a certain number
Speaker 1: of units turned in and and uh, you know, other
Speaker 1: kinds of things like that. And there's talk of even
Speaker 1: turning using gamification and designing educational courses, so you know,
Speaker 1: you create a game playing element in learning, and you
Speaker 1: have created a new way to encourage students to learn. So,
Speaker 1: you know, one of the big challenges of of being
Speaker 1: a teacher, and there are many, Being a teacher is
Speaker 1: an incredibly challenging and so I'm sure many people would
Speaker 1: argue a very rewarding occupation. I certainly am very thankful
Speaker 1: that both of my parents are teachers, because they they
Speaker 1: taught me a lot as a by extension. But yeah,
Speaker 1: there's there's this this idea of throwing game elements into
Speaker 1: education and turning education into more of a game so
Speaker 1: that students are are enthusiastic about learning, they're eager to learn,
Speaker 1: because it means that they get points, they get to
Speaker 1: move ahead. It's it's it's kind of just taking the
Speaker 1: whole concept of grades and turning it into more of
Speaker 1: a a game. And you could you know, we've been
Speaker 1: doing this, like I said, for decades. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: when I was a kid and you did something really well,
Speaker 1: you'd get a gold star. Like you know, that's that's
Speaker 1: a level of gamification. It's a reward system that's kind
Speaker 1: of like a game. Like you did well on this test,
Speaker 1: you get a gold star. Um, it's just taking that
Speaker 1: and and making it a little more sophisticated it and
Speaker 1: a little more integrated into the educational system. And it's
Speaker 1: still very early days for that kind of of widespread
Speaker 1: use of gamification, but uh, there are a lot of
Speaker 1: people who are really interested to see if this will
Speaker 1: pay off in the long run. Um. And I actually
Speaker 1: have an interesting kind of example of this that I
Speaker 1: would like to talk about just for a second if
Speaker 1: I might. Okay, have you heard of a man named
Speaker 1: John Hunter? John Hunter. John Hunter is a teacher in
Speaker 1: in Virginia, and he came up with a game that
Speaker 1: he calls the World Peace Game. And there's a documentary
Speaker 1: film about this. It's called World Peace Game and Other
Speaker 1: Fourth Grade Achievements, which is a great title, right, So yeah,
Speaker 1: he has he teaches fourth graders and he's a he
Speaker 1: teaches gifted students, so it's a it's a specific program here.
Speaker 1: The kids are given an interesting task. They have a
Speaker 1: a map that has four layers to it. It's actually
Speaker 1: like uh, levels of of plexiglass and plywood, all right,
Speaker 1: So you've got the top level is space that kind
Speaker 1: of represents space, so it it's where satellites are, It's
Speaker 1: where spacecraft are. That's the top level. The next level
Speaker 1: is airspace, so we're talking like clouds, weather patterns, planes,
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. The base level is ground and
Speaker 1: sea level that's where all your your land based in
Speaker 1: water based units are. And the level below that is
Speaker 1: under the sea, so it's things like submarines and uh
Speaker 1: undersea oil drilling that kind of stuff and crabbing a
Speaker 1: little mem and there's this. The purpose of the game
Speaker 1: is that the they have I think it's four nations
Speaker 1: that are not representative of any particular real world counterparts
Speaker 1: phoe nations, and the students even get to name the
Speaker 1: nations that they've along to each nation. The teacher comes
Speaker 1: up to students that he thinks would be particularly well
Speaker 1: suited for the role and approaches them and said offers
Speaker 1: them a chance to become prime minister of one of
Speaker 1: those nations. The prime minister in turn gets to a
Speaker 1: point from the class UH different cabinet level positions, and
Speaker 1: these fourth graders end up taking over these nations that
Speaker 1: all have various economic powers, military powers, UH. They have
Speaker 1: various complicated relationships with one another. UM, there's a whole
Speaker 1: element of of competition for resources, there are differing political ideologies,
Speaker 1: and the goal of the class is to go through
Speaker 1: this program and by the end of the program achieve
Speaker 1: world peace while dealing with all the other issues that
Speaker 1: nations in the world have to deal with. Chris and
Speaker 1: I have a little bit more to say about gamification
Speaker 1: in just a moment, but before we get to that,
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break to thank our sponsors. So
Speaker 1: he has a thirteen page UH document that has all
Speaker 1: these different elements to it, all of which are are
Speaker 1: somewhat interconnected. So if something changes on one, it's going
Speaker 1: to change everything else too, and and so things like
Speaker 1: there may be various crises like ethnic disputes between different groups. Uh,
Speaker 1: there may be a resource shortage, there may be environmental disasters. Uh,
Speaker 1: there may be um like a massive storm takes out
Speaker 1: resources in one part of the world, and the students
Speaker 1: have to keep working together to work through these problems
Speaker 1: in order to achieve world peace. Well, this is gamification
Speaker 1: of a of lots of different issues, things like every
Speaker 1: he tackles stuff like global warming, you know, political sign
Speaker 1: it's um, environmental concerns. I mean, there's all these different
Speaker 1: elements that go into this game. And the the amazing
Speaker 1: thing is that I think he I think his classes
Speaker 1: have a perfect record of reaching world peace by the
Speaker 1: end of the program. And he's been doing this since
Speaker 1: I think nineteen seventy seven, so it's a pretty phenomenal
Speaker 1: uh lesson there and he and he actually says he
Speaker 1: has a talk, Ted Talk that you I would recommend
Speaker 1: looking this up, the Ted talk and there's also the
Speaker 1: documentary film as well. Both of them are are great.
Speaker 1: I do recommend them. Um. But he he talks about
Speaker 1: how at the very beginning of the project, he admits
Speaker 1: to the students, I don't have the answers. I don't
Speaker 1: know how to fix the world, that's what you have
Speaker 1: to do, and here's the game. Yeah. But that's the
Speaker 1: thing is that it gets these kids thinking, and because
Speaker 1: it's in a game format, it gets these kids thinking
Speaker 1: in a way of how do I solve this this obstacle?
Speaker 1: How do how do I get around this obstacle to
Speaker 1: achieve my goal? And then the hope, of course is
Speaker 1: that they'll carry that experience with them to actually apply
Speaker 1: the lessons they learned in that that game in real life,
Speaker 1: which is again pretty phenomenal. We should see if we
Speaker 1: could get an interview with Ian Bogosts from Georgia Tech,
Speaker 1: the Georgia Institute of Technology, who UH also has a UM,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you'd call it a company, but
Speaker 1: he also has a book called Persuasive Games and the
Speaker 1: website based on it and the idea he he has
Speaker 1: a number of games that look at social and political topics.
Speaker 1: UM basically, how you can generate a discourse around our
Speaker 1: discussion around these topics through using games and how you
Speaker 1: can investigate that. That's sort of a side topic to gamification,
Speaker 1: because I mean, it's it is gamification, but it's kind
Speaker 1: of not UM. Also Budget Hero on Marketplace, UH the
Speaker 1: public radio program marketplace dot org. You can find the
Speaker 1: budget Hero game. I think I posted it to our
Speaker 1: Facebook page a long, long, long time ago. But yeah,
Speaker 1: basically it's a way to balance the budget or um. Actually,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you had these, but when I
Speaker 1: was in junior high school, we had the stock market
Speaker 1: game where they were trying to teach us about economics.
Speaker 1: But what they would do is say, Okay, we're gonna
Speaker 1: as a class, everybody gets two fake dollars to invest
Speaker 1: in the stock market. Now you guys have to go
Speaker 1: look at the market and based on what do you
Speaker 1: know of these companies, make some fake investments, and by
Speaker 1: the end of this, we'll see who has the most
Speaker 1: money and who has the least. Yeah, I actually won that.
Speaker 1: I actually failed miserably. I want it, and I gotta
Speaker 1: tell you my team used the throw a dart at
Speaker 1: it strategy. I mean that works for people in real life.
Speaker 1: Because that's the sad thing is that that was a
Speaker 1: case where gamification did not teach me. But there are
Speaker 1: different levels of amification because sure, sure, and you can
Speaker 1: and you can use it in your daily life. To um.
Speaker 1: I was while Jonathan was talking a minute ago was frantically, Um,
Speaker 1: I prefer molten peanut butter enough. The uh um iPhone
Speaker 1: and iPod app um epic Win. Have you heard of this.
Speaker 1: It's a it's a really cool little app um and
Speaker 1: it's uh it's not free. I think it's two in
Speaker 1: the app store as of right now when I happen
Speaker 1: to be looking at it. I learned about it a
Speaker 1: few months ago. Um. But yeah, it's a it's a
Speaker 1: to do list and so you write down the stuff
Speaker 1: you have to do and they give you little badges
Speaker 1: and things when you actually check stuff off your list,
Speaker 1: and you level up after a certain amount of time,
Speaker 1: and there are new characters and things. So it's um. Uh.
Speaker 1: It's gotten mixed reviews, I would say mostly positive. I've
Speaker 1: heard people talking about it in a in a kind
Speaker 1: of cool way, and um. There are other forms of
Speaker 1: gamification too for companies now when they're trying to encourage
Speaker 1: human resources people to sign everybody at your company up
Speaker 1: and uh. It allows people to give other people a
Speaker 1: pat on the back in a game. In the game,
Speaker 1: say hey, you want to badge because you really turn
Speaker 1: that job around for me really quickly, and I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: And you know there there are elements of gamification that
Speaker 1: have been in the workplace for a while to like, um, like,
Speaker 1: whenever you have those team building retreats, that's kind of
Speaker 1: a gamification thing because again, you're you're you're doing the
Speaker 1: team building so that you can, in theory, at any rate,
Speaker 1: apply those team building skills you you you learn on
Speaker 1: these retreats to actual work in the office. But in
Speaker 1: the case of the retreats, it's to build a team
Speaker 1: to do things like get across a an obstacle course,
Speaker 1: you know that kind of stuff, or you know, everyone
Speaker 1: is linked together by this one rope and you have
Speaker 1: to find how to get free of the rope in
Speaker 1: the smallest number the fewest number of moves possible, that
Speaker 1: kind of thing, and it's all problem solving skills and
Speaker 1: teamwork that are part of it. But uh, you know,
Speaker 1: the goal isn't just to have a good time and
Speaker 1: and you know, to get across an obstacle course. The
Speaker 1: goal is to build the skills that you're going to
Speaker 1: need to successfully work your way in that office. So
Speaker 1: uh yeah, I mean that kind of gamification has been
Speaker 1: around for for ages and ages, and it's just now
Speaker 1: we're getting to a point where the layer is more obvious.
Speaker 1: It's it's more incorporated directly into whatever it is we're doing.
Speaker 1: And we're gonna see lots of this, I think, for
Speaker 1: at least a year. Um. And if it proves like
Speaker 1: to truly be a success, we're going to see it
Speaker 1: from here on out. If people get bored of it,
Speaker 1: then we'll move on to the next thing. So that,
Speaker 1: I've seen people criticize gamification to say that, well, one,
Speaker 1: it's been around forever, and to it's a fad um
Speaker 1: or a buzzword. But we'll see, well it is. It
Speaker 1: is a buzzword. It's certainly something that people have been
Speaker 1: studying as what it is sort of a hey, would
Speaker 1: you look at that, um, and how can I make
Speaker 1: use of this in training or education or you know,
Speaker 1: getting my employees to feel better about themselves or getting
Speaker 1: more customers in the door? Um, you know we have.
Speaker 1: I would be remiss if I didn't mention one of
Speaker 1: my favorite How stuff Works dot Com authors, Stephanie Crawford,
Speaker 1: who has an article on the side how Gamification Works
Speaker 1: that highly recommended. It's an excellent article, and she mentions
Speaker 1: people who have been influential and sort of creating, you know,
Speaker 1: establishing themselves as experts in the field. Like Jane McGonagall. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she gave a keynote presentation atself by south West, which
Speaker 1: I hear was amazing. Yeah yeah, um and um oh,
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to find the other person's name. There
Speaker 1: are several other people who have been really uh it
Speaker 1: was Gabe Zickerman. Who who was I've seen there's a
Speaker 1: couple pieces on O'Riley the a tech publisher, UM where
Speaker 1: you can there's I think a webcast and some other
Speaker 1: things that you can go check out if you're interested
Speaker 1: in it. UM. But you know, they're they're really sort
Speaker 1: of studying this now and and finding ways that people
Speaker 1: can incorporate it. So I'm I'm inclined to say. I mean,
Speaker 1: if it makes the stuff that we do every day
Speaker 1: a little less boring, um and makes people more likely
Speaker 1: to be engaged, I don't I don't see it going
Speaker 1: away anytime soon. I certainly think that it's uh, it
Speaker 1: certainly works on me every time I, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: get stuck in some zinga thing where I have to
Speaker 1: plant something and be back in twenty minutes. Otherwise it
Speaker 1: fails miserably, I go, I am such a sucker. Well,
Speaker 1: and I mean, I'm still using four square. Uh. That
Speaker 1: was one of those you know, when I first started
Speaker 1: using Twitter. I've said this told this story is several
Speaker 1: times of the podcast too. When I first started using Twitter,
Speaker 1: I use it for about a month and then I stopped,
Speaker 1: and then about three or four months later I picked
Speaker 1: it up again, and then I've been using it ever since. Uh.
Speaker 1: Four square. There was a good ants that I was
Speaker 1: going to I installed it, I used it for a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks, thought it was kind of interesting, and
Speaker 1: then just sort of forgot about it. And it wasn't
Speaker 1: until I think I managed to become mayor of a
Speaker 1: local theater in Atlanta, Stage Theater, and that's when I
Speaker 1: the bug bit me and Uh. It also helps that
Speaker 1: actors are, by their nature, very competitive, and so I
Speaker 1: and my fellow actors I do acting occasionally, but I
Speaker 1: am my fellow actors now try to become the mayor
Speaker 1: of various UH stages around town. And by the way,
Speaker 1: this runs the family. My sister is the mayor of
Speaker 1: a local theater in Atlanta too, Because when I got
Speaker 1: there to check in, I said, oh, she's she's the mayor,
Speaker 1: and I got a little upset actually, because it was
Speaker 1: one of those places that had a special where you
Speaker 1: could get a discount off your tickets. Well, she was
Speaker 1: performing in the show. She wasn't buying. She couldn't even
Speaker 1: take advantage of the offer. She was in the That's
Speaker 1: why she had become the mayor, because she had been
Speaker 1: there for all the rehearsals and the performances. I love you,
Speaker 1: says yeah, I have to say that all the time.
Speaker 1: Like I love my wife and I love my sister.
Speaker 1: The women in my life are wonderful. I'm I'm very
Speaker 1: happy with them. Please don't beat me up, don't make
Speaker 1: a game of it. And that wraps up this classic
Speaker 1: episode of tech Stuff. Hope you enjoyed it. I have
Speaker 1: a lot more to say about gamification. I'm sure I'm
Speaker 1: going to do a follow up on this particular topic,
Speaker 1: because there's a lot more to say post two thousand
Speaker 1: eleven about gamification and how that has played into different
Speaker 1: arenas in the tech space and as well as business
Speaker 1: in general. And we can also look at how certain
Speaker 1: uh strategies in gamification have created sort of a backlash
Speaker 1: against it. So I plan on doing a follow up
Speaker 1: episode to this topic in the near future. You should
Speaker 1: be getting brand new shows next week. I hope you
Speaker 1: guys enjoy them. If you have any suggestions for future topics,
Speaker 1: future co hosts, future you know, vacation destinations for Jonathan Strickland,
Speaker 1: let me know. You can reach me on Facebook or Twitter.
Speaker 1: The handle for both is text stuff H s W
Speaker 1: and I'll talk to you again really soon. Tech Stuff
Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the i
Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.