1 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production of I Heart Radios 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with 4 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio and I love all things tech. And 5 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: we are wrapping up some classic episodes while I get 6 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: back into the swing of things getting new material out 7 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: for you. Brand new episodes will be coming soon. But 8 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: today we're going to listen to a classic episode that 9 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: originally published way back on June eight, two thousand eleven. 10 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: It is titled what is Gamification? And this is a 11 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: concept that has become an underlying principle of tons of 12 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 1: different businesses. It was a huge thing back in two eleven. 13 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: It's still a big thing today. So what is it? Well, 14 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: Chris Poulette and I are going to tell you. Enjoy. 15 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: We're going to talk about gamification today, which is kind 16 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: of a buzzword right now. It's been a buzzword for 17 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: a couple of years, particularly in the tech industry, but 18 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: it extends beyond just the tech industry. Oh yeah, yeah. 19 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,759 Speaker 1: This is Uh, it's funny because it's it's not really 20 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: a tech topic in a way, because uh, this is 21 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: a this is a human engineering or you know, cognitive engineering. Short, 22 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 1: it's not it's not so much related to a specific 23 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: type of technology, but I think in a lot of 24 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: ways it can be traced back to technology. Yeah, basically 25 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: what gamification is and you can probably figure it out 26 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: just based on the word. It's applying game thinking and 27 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:40,039 Speaker 1: game mechanics to tasks in order to kind of create 28 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,680 Speaker 1: an extra layer on top of those tasks. And there 29 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: are a lot of different examples. In fact, we've talked 30 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: about some of them already. We have indeed, sure like 31 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: um like geo cashing. Geo cashing, I would argue, is 32 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: a kind of gamification to take a basic basic activity, 33 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: which in in geo cashing, you could call it either 34 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: hiking or if you wanted to, even exploring, and then 35 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: you add a game element on top of it. In 36 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: this case, it might be things like the you know, 37 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: you have a set of coordinates and you follow it, 38 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: and then when you get there, there's a little cash 39 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: of of goodies that's inside a box at that particular location, 40 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: and then you get to take something and maybe you 41 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: leave something behind as well, and that's the game element 42 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: to it. And as you continue to geo cash, you 43 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: accumulate these little tokens or whatever, and you leave your 44 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: own possibly personalized calling card behind at these various geo cashes, 45 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: so that other people who are following they may say, Hell, hey, 46 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: this guy, I've seen this guy's stuff before. This guy 47 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: was at this other geo cash before. I don't know 48 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: who he is or or I don't know who she is, 49 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: but I know that they always leave, you know whatever, 50 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: like a Smurf figurine. You know. So that's that's an 51 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: example of gamification. It's adding this element of gameplay on 52 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: top of another activity. Yes, see, I I blame Mary Poppins. 53 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: She did say that in every job there must be done, 54 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:10,959 Speaker 1: there is an element of fun. You find the fun 55 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: and snap, the job's a game. Well, actually that was 56 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: pretty wise because it's it's everywhere these days. It's easy 57 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: to see, uh in games. You know, and a lot 58 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: of our listeners are very serious video play, video game players, 59 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: video play gamers, um. But sometimes I would not put 60 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: it past them. But yeah, all those achievements that you unlock, um, 61 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: you know, you unlock a new character in the game, 62 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: you unlock a new scenario, you get a badge for 63 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: running fifty missions, that's that stuff is gamification, and that's 64 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: and it's weird to think of gamification on top of games, 65 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: but it is adding another element, for example. And the 66 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: purpose in technology generally tends to be one of two things. 67 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: You're either trying to teach a concept and you're using 68 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: gamification to entice people to learn about that concept by 69 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: by creating a sort of a reward system really for 70 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: them to participate, and the reward system keeps them going. 71 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: And the other related idea is engagement. Now, engagement is 72 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 1: one of those terms you're gonna hear a lot in 73 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:28,119 Speaker 1: technology companies. Engagement is this elusive thing everyone's going after, 74 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: and that is not just attracting an audience, but keeping 75 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: that audience and keeping them coming back to you and 76 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 1: and to have them invested in your product over a 77 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: long term. Because if someone just comes to you once 78 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 1: and then they never come back, then you know you 79 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: only benefit from that relationship the one time. So what 80 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: you really want to do is you want to create 81 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 1: an experience or a product that has people coming back 82 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: to you over and over again. And uh, this can 83 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: be hardware, it can be software, it can be a service, 84 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: it can be an activity like I said with geo cashing. 85 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: Letter boxing is another great example. Letter boxing again is 86 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 1: treasure hunting, and there's a whole range of game systems 87 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: that are put on top of letter boxing that that 88 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: make it really an engaging activity for people who get 89 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: into it. And so gamification, it's it's something that people 90 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 1: have been doing for centuries. I mean, they've been throwing 91 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 1: games on top of stuff for as long as there 92 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: have been games, really, but it's only been in the 93 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 1: last couple of years that that's kind of become a 94 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 1: buzzword where people are concentrating on ways to create game 95 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: elements on top of whatever it is they're offering in 96 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: order to get that level of engagement they're looking for. Um. Yeah, 97 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: and they're they're all kinds of applications for this. I mean, um, 98 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: some of you who have mobile devices like to check 99 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: in on things like go Wala or four square or 100 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 1: Scavenger if you like, and scavin you know, let's let's 101 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 1: start with four Square then of the Scavenger, because Scavenger 102 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 1: is kind of like a very specific twist on four square. Well, 103 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: it's funny because um, these these I don't know, they're 104 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 1: really not technically games. Um, they're badges that you can 105 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,919 Speaker 1: earn in four square. For example, Yeah, that and and uh, 106 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: that would be I would say the oldest of the 107 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: three four square. You know, once you count create an 108 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: account on four square and you have a GPS enabled phone. Um. 109 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: Basically you're asked to check in when when you go 110 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 1: to someplace, so you know, you get to work. Um, 111 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 1: you say, okay, I'm here at work, um, and it 112 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: will tell you, for example, how many of your how 113 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 1: many people are there, and how many people possibly who 114 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: they are? Yeah, if you if you're friends with them, 115 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 1: I will tell you if your friends are there. It 116 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: may even tell you if your friends are nearby. If 117 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:48,159 Speaker 1: they're not like right where you are, but they're in 118 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: the area, it might tell you that. It gives you 119 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 1: an opportunity to share that on Facebook and Twitter. It 120 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 1: gives you opportunity over time to become the mayor of 121 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: a location. So that's the first layer of gamification, right there, 122 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: is becoming the mayor, because then you have us You 123 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: have attached a status to this service, and status is 124 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: really important to people. People like having high status. It's 125 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: good to be the king. Yeah, it makes you feel important, right, 126 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's we all get this like it 127 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: it just if it feels good. So the mayor idea 128 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: makes perfect sense. You you know, you could argue, yeah, 129 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: it's just it just means that you have a smartphone 130 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: and you've been here a lot. It doesn't that's all 131 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: it means. But you could say, yeah, but you know, 132 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: I've achieved something. I am a mayor here. And then 133 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: then they have these badges that they have all four 134 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: square that you get. You you earn these badges by 135 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: checking into specific types of locations, or perhaps the location 136 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: you're checking into has a particular feature, Like there's one 137 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: that if you've you've checked into at least three places 138 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: that have a photo booth, you get a certain badge. Um, 139 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: there are there are badges where if you check into 140 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: a place that has a lot of other people, they 141 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: have swarm badges and they have different levels of swarm. 142 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: So the more people who are there, the Like if 143 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: you have like two hundred or five hundred or a 144 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: thousand people, you'll get a different level of swarm badge 145 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: for checking in. So if you guys want swarm badges, 146 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: here's where you gotta go. You have to go to 147 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: either South by Southwest or c E S. And I 148 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,559 Speaker 1: guarantee you because that's where all the tech people are 149 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: and they all love to use these things. That's where 150 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: you're gonna get the best chance to really earn one 151 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: those badges. You can also earn them an other like 152 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: really popular places like say Disney World or Disneyland. Yeah. 153 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 1: Actually that's that's a good point. Go Wala has a 154 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 1: feature on it that allows you that where in which 155 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: they have certain tours where you collect if you go 156 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: to someplace like disney World, Um, you're supposed to. If 157 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 1: you go to all the different places, they'll have like 158 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: a subset of badges there and it's sort of like 159 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: a can you collect all twelve of these locations? You know, 160 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: see if you can check in at all these different spots, 161 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 1: um and then and that really can do that. Yeah, 162 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: it really drives engagement. Like we said, like if four 163 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: Square did not have the badges and did not have 164 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: the mayor element to it, then there would be I'm 165 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,319 Speaker 1: sure there would be a significant drop off of the 166 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: number of people who would use the service a couple 167 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: of times and then we'll just never come back to it. 168 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: There would be a lot more of those people right, 169 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 1: and they're there already are those people. And it's not 170 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: like we're saying that these things make you stay, but 171 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 1: they are incentives for certain people to keep trying to 172 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: use this this uh um service. I know as as 173 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: mayor of how stuff works. As of the recording of 174 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: this podcast, I get really really cheesed off when Brian 175 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: steals my mayorship. And that's gone back and forth between 176 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,959 Speaker 1: the two of us at least five times already. Brian 177 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: and I we tend to steal this. I become mayor, 178 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: then like a week later he's the mayor, and then 179 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: I'm the mayor again. And I mean there is a 180 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: there's a definite competitive element to know you want to 181 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: become the mayor, Like there's a there's a certain level 182 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: satisfaction of stealing the may air from someone else. Yeah. Yeah, 183 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: um And uh Goala also offers uh something, a little 184 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: something that four Square doesn't that I think is kind 185 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: of cool. Um. The company that makes uh Goala is 186 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: called Alamo Fire. They're based in Texas, and they have 187 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: a They also if you've ever played the Facebook collecting 188 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: game pack Rat, they also do that. They have some 189 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: pretty cool art and that's one of those things. That's 190 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: really neat because they come up with UM badges for 191 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: certain locations, certain stores and other places. So it's kind 192 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: of fun to collect those stickers because they may be 193 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 1: sort of unique. And you like geo caash and you 194 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: drop and pick up items when you go places. You 195 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: might know, if you go to a bookstore, you might 196 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: get a typewriter or what they call a page turner 197 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: a book um, and it has a collector's number on 198 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 1: their number, you know, one thousand and fifty four, um, 199 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: so you know when they launched that particular item, and 200 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: so you uh, that kind of keeps you going because 201 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,199 Speaker 1: you go, okay, well I've gotten these things, or hey, 202 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: look at that they made a new one for for 203 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: this intation. Um. You might say, though, what's in this? 204 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: Why why would anybody do this? Well, companies, uh, these stores, 205 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 1: for example, have realized that they can offer people using 206 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: these services a little something extra. You might find if 207 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: you're using four square uh a coupon. Yeah. Uh. You 208 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: know they go to this hotel and tell us that 209 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: you saw this special on four square and we'll give 210 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: you ten percent off your stay. Yeah we um. I 211 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:39,959 Speaker 1: went to a restaurant at Universal uh the Universal Islands 212 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: of Adventure Properties, and they had it where if you 213 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:45,959 Speaker 1: showed that you checked in on four Square that you 214 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: would get a free cocktail. Interesting free my tie and uh, 215 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: it's a problem for you. Yeah, I don't drink. For 216 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 1: for folks listening to the podcast, I'm not a drinker 217 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: at all. So my wife got to my ties and 218 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 1: because she checked into four square and I checked into 219 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: fourth Square, and my wife was very happy. At the 220 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:04,960 Speaker 1: end of the dinner, she said it was the best 221 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: dinner ever. Um, getting around of the fountain was a 222 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: bit of a challenge. But no, I'm joking. I'm joking. 223 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: I love you, Rebecca. Guys have just wrote doubles. It 224 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: means that I'm gonna have to lose a turn. So 225 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: while I'm waiting for my turn to come back around, 226 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: let's let's take a break and think our sponsors. There's 227 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: this element of tempting people to come into places by 228 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: having this this special deal, right, that's one way you 229 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 1: can you you as a as a vendor, as a 230 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 1: as a retail operator or restaurant operator. That's one way 231 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 1: you would you might want to leverage these services or 232 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: that this gamification is that it's a way to lure 233 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: people into your your place. Uh, Scavenger, Like you were saying, 234 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 1: Scavenger is kind of an interesting thing and that it 235 00:12:55,760 --> 00:13:01,199 Speaker 1: adds another level level of gameplay to to checking into locations. 236 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: I first started using Scavenger at CS so this past 237 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: the e s as of the recording of this podcast. 238 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 1: And you would go to a booth and you would 239 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: you know, I went to a booth and they had 240 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: me sign up for Scavenger and they said, all right, 241 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: now walk around the booth and you're gonna see different 242 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: tasks that you need to complete in order to win points. 243 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: And then at the end of the day there's gonna 244 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 1: be a drawing for a prize, and the number of 245 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: times you're entered into the prize will be dependent upon 246 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: how many points you burned, so the more points you 247 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: are and the more chances you have to win. And 248 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: it was things like find out how many uh how 249 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: far down this waterproof watch can go before before it's 250 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: no longer rated for that depth, stuff like that, where 251 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: is John Cameron Swayze when you need him? Right? So 252 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: you would have to go over to that part of 253 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: the booth and find that device and learn you might 254 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: even have to talk to one of the one of 255 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: the representatives there to get the information. Then you have 256 00:13:57,960 --> 00:13:59,839 Speaker 1: to go into the app and text that in for 257 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,319 Speaker 1: nation in for it to be verified so that you 258 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 1: would get those points. Or it might be get a 259 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:10,319 Speaker 1: picture of this one gadget, uh that's located somewhere in 260 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: the booth and you would have to go through the 261 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,199 Speaker 1: booth and find it. Well, for those people, the people 262 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: at that these booths, every time you're going through and 263 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: completing one of these tasks, now in your mind you're thinking, 264 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: I need more points. I need to get more points 265 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 1: because then I can win. Uh. What they're thinking is 266 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: by making you go to all these different sections of 267 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: the booth, you are building more awareness of their brand 268 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: and that you might not be very conscious about it, 269 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: but that you're gonna take home this experience. You're gonna think, 270 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that that laptop. I remember I 271 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 1: saw it at such and such booth because I played 272 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: that game. And for them, that's where it pays off. 273 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: It's like marketing, right, it's a way to build awareness. 274 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: And they didn't have to buy a commercial. All he 275 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: did was put this stuff into an app and they 276 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: let you do all the work, and because there's that 277 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: reward system, because there's points involved and there's a competition, 278 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: everybody really comes out a winner because the user gets 279 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: the feeling of accomplishment as they build points, and the 280 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: vendor gets the feeling of hey, we've got a successful 281 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: marketing campaign. It's not like one of those things where 282 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: you know, you feel I wouldn't think that as a user, 283 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: I would feel like I was quote unquote used right 284 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: because I got something else out of it. It wasn't 285 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: just you know, having to walk around. I was doing 286 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: it voluntarily because it meant that I was earning points. 287 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: And that's a lot of Uh, that's that's one side 288 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: of gamification is really you know, you've designed this this 289 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: level of games to to reward people but also to 290 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: keep them coming back to you. But there's another level 291 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: of gamification too, there's a problem solving and learning side 292 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: of gamification. Oh, absolutely, absolutely, um the In fact, there 293 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: have been some projects that have been using gamification as 294 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: a way to in as an incentive for other people 295 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: to participate. We've talked about crowdsourcing some on the on 296 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 1: the show, um where basically, look, I've got a lot 297 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: of stuff to do for example the cety at Home 298 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: project as as an example we've used before where UM 299 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: scientists were collecting a mountain of information through radio telescopes 300 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: and they just didn't have the computing power to process 301 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: it all in a timely manner to see if there 302 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: was any kind of discernible signal in all the noise 303 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: they were getting from space. Um, So they enlisted the 304 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: help of many, many people. Hey, look, we've got a 305 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: little application that you can install on your computer. It 306 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: will help us crunch the numbers that we're getting back 307 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: from space and in the background, you don't have to 308 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: do anything. Yeah, and and it was a pretty cool 309 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: screen saver as well. UM. So it looks like it's 310 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: doing something really cool. And basically when you share the 311 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: information back with them, it's it comes to them in 312 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: a form that they can use and quickly scan to 313 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: see if there's any value in it. Um. Also, hey, 314 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:07,439 Speaker 1: a little bit of gamification. Before gamification was a word, UM, 315 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 1: I think. Uh, they offered you the chance. They said, hey, look, 316 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: if we find somebody out there, uh, you know, you'll 317 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: have some credit for that. So you you do get 318 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: a little something. You get a share in the prize 319 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 1: it's I guess it's not a prize problem. You essentially 320 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: your name is associated with what could arguably be the 321 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: biggest scientific discovery since ever. Yeah, but they're doing that 322 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: with all kinds of other projects now too, where they 323 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: offer you the opportunity to participate in the project and 324 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,399 Speaker 1: they'll give you a badge for getting a certain number 325 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,400 Speaker 1: of units turned in and and uh, you know, other 326 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: kinds of things like that. And there's talk of even 327 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: turning using gamification and designing educational courses, so you know, 328 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,479 Speaker 1: you create a game playing element in learning, and you 329 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: have created a new way to encourage students to learn. So, 330 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: you know, one of the big challenges of of being 331 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:02,919 Speaker 1: a teacher, and there are many, Being a teacher is 332 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: an incredibly challenging and so I'm sure many people would 333 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:10,959 Speaker 1: argue a very rewarding occupation. I certainly am very thankful 334 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: that both of my parents are teachers, because they they 335 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: taught me a lot as a by extension. But yeah, 336 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,879 Speaker 1: there's there's this this idea of throwing game elements into 337 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 1: education and turning education into more of a game so 338 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: that students are are enthusiastic about learning, they're eager to learn, 339 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: because it means that they get points, they get to 340 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: move ahead. It's it's it's kind of just taking the 341 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:38,159 Speaker 1: whole concept of grades and turning it into more of 342 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: a a game. And you could you know, we've been 343 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 1: doing this, like I said, for decades. I mean, you know, 344 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,120 Speaker 1: when I was a kid and you did something really well, 345 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: you'd get a gold star. Like you know, that's that's 346 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: a level of gamification. It's a reward system that's kind 347 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:54,440 Speaker 1: of like a game. Like you did well on this test, 348 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: you get a gold star. Um, it's just taking that 349 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,199 Speaker 1: and and making it a little more sophisticated it and 350 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 1: a little more integrated into the educational system. And it's 351 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 1: still very early days for that kind of of widespread 352 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 1: use of gamification, but uh, there are a lot of 353 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 1: people who are really interested to see if this will 354 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: pay off in the long run. Um. And I actually 355 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: have an interesting kind of example of this that I 356 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: would like to talk about just for a second if 357 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: I might. Okay, have you heard of a man named 358 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:32,119 Speaker 1: John Hunter? John Hunter. John Hunter is a teacher in 359 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: in Virginia, and he came up with a game that 360 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: he calls the World Peace Game. And there's a documentary 361 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: film about this. It's called World Peace Game and Other 362 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: Fourth Grade Achievements, which is a great title, right, So yeah, 363 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: he has he teaches fourth graders and he's a he 364 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,400 Speaker 1: teaches gifted students, so it's a it's a specific program here. 365 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: The kids are given an interesting task. They have a 366 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: a map that has four layers to it. It's actually 367 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: like uh, levels of of plexiglass and plywood, all right, 368 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: So you've got the top level is space that kind 369 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: of represents space, so it it's where satellites are, It's 370 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 1: where spacecraft are. That's the top level. The next level 371 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:24,160 Speaker 1: is airspace, so we're talking like clouds, weather patterns, planes, 372 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. The base level is ground and 373 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: sea level that's where all your your land based in 374 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: water based units are. And the level below that is 375 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: under the sea, so it's things like submarines and uh 376 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 1: undersea oil drilling that kind of stuff and crabbing a 377 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: little mem and there's this. The purpose of the game 378 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: is that the they have I think it's four nations 379 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 1: that are not representative of any particular real world counterparts 380 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,119 Speaker 1: phoe nations, and the students even get to name the 381 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 1: nations that they've along to each nation. The teacher comes 382 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 1: up to students that he thinks would be particularly well 383 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 1: suited for the role and approaches them and said offers 384 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 1: them a chance to become prime minister of one of 385 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: those nations. The prime minister in turn gets to a 386 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 1: point from the class UH different cabinet level positions, and 387 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 1: these fourth graders end up taking over these nations that 388 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: all have various economic powers, military powers, UH. They have 389 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 1: various complicated relationships with one another. UM, there's a whole 390 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: element of of competition for resources, there are differing political ideologies, 391 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: and the goal of the class is to go through 392 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,880 Speaker 1: this program and by the end of the program achieve 393 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:53,360 Speaker 1: world peace while dealing with all the other issues that 394 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:55,919 Speaker 1: nations in the world have to deal with. Chris and 395 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: I have a little bit more to say about gamification 396 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 1: in just a moment, but before we get to that, 397 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: let's take a quick break to thank our sponsors. So 398 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: he has a thirteen page UH document that has all 399 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: these different elements to it, all of which are are 400 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 1: somewhat interconnected. So if something changes on one, it's going 401 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 1: to change everything else too, and and so things like 402 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 1: there may be various crises like ethnic disputes between different groups. Uh, 403 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: there may be a resource shortage, there may be environmental disasters. Uh, 404 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:41,360 Speaker 1: there may be um like a massive storm takes out 405 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: resources in one part of the world, and the students 406 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 1: have to keep working together to work through these problems 407 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,679 Speaker 1: in order to achieve world peace. Well, this is gamification 408 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: of a of lots of different issues, things like every 409 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: he tackles stuff like global warming, you know, political sign 410 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: it's um, environmental concerns. I mean, there's all these different 411 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 1: elements that go into this game. And the the amazing 412 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: thing is that I think he I think his classes 413 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 1: have a perfect record of reaching world peace by the 414 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: end of the program. And he's been doing this since 415 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: I think nineteen seventy seven, so it's a pretty phenomenal 416 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 1: uh lesson there and he and he actually says he 417 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: has a talk, Ted Talk that you I would recommend 418 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 1: looking this up, the Ted talk and there's also the 419 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 1: documentary film as well. Both of them are are great. 420 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: I do recommend them. Um. But he he talks about 421 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: how at the very beginning of the project, he admits 422 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: to the students, I don't have the answers. I don't 423 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,919 Speaker 1: know how to fix the world, that's what you have 424 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: to do, and here's the game. Yeah. But that's the 425 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 1: thing is that it gets these kids thinking, and because 426 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: it's in a game format, it gets these kids thinking 427 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: in a way of how do I solve this this obstacle? 428 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 1: How do how do I get around this obstacle to 429 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 1: achieve my goal? And then the hope, of course is 430 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,479 Speaker 1: that they'll carry that experience with them to actually apply 431 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,399 Speaker 1: the lessons they learned in that that game in real life, 432 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 1: which is again pretty phenomenal. We should see if we 433 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: could get an interview with Ian Bogosts from Georgia Tech, 434 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 1: the Georgia Institute of Technology, who UH also has a UM, 435 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: I don't know if you'd call it a company, but 436 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: he also has a book called Persuasive Games and the 437 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: website based on it and the idea he he has 438 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: a number of games that look at social and political topics. 439 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:42,679 Speaker 1: UM basically, how you can generate a discourse around our 440 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 1: discussion around these topics through using games and how you 441 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: can investigate that. That's sort of a side topic to gamification, 442 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 1: because I mean, it's it is gamification, but it's kind 443 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 1: of not UM. Also Budget Hero on Marketplace, UH the 444 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: public radio program marketplace dot org. You can find the 445 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: budget Hero game. I think I posted it to our 446 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,880 Speaker 1: Facebook page a long, long, long time ago. But yeah, 447 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:12,199 Speaker 1: basically it's a way to balance the budget or um. Actually, 448 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: I don't know if you had these, but when I 449 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: was in junior high school, we had the stock market 450 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: game where they were trying to teach us about economics. 451 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: But what they would do is say, Okay, we're gonna 452 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 1: as a class, everybody gets two fake dollars to invest 453 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: in the stock market. Now you guys have to go 454 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: look at the market and based on what do you 455 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 1: know of these companies, make some fake investments, and by 456 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,160 Speaker 1: the end of this, we'll see who has the most 457 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: money and who has the least. Yeah, I actually won that. 458 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,120 Speaker 1: I actually failed miserably. I want it, and I gotta 459 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 1: tell you my team used the throw a dart at 460 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,640 Speaker 1: it strategy. I mean that works for people in real life. 461 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: Because that's the sad thing is that that was a 462 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,159 Speaker 1: case where gamification did not teach me. But there are 463 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,440 Speaker 1: different levels of amification because sure, sure, and you can 464 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: and you can use it in your daily life. To um. 465 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: I was while Jonathan was talking a minute ago was frantically, Um, 466 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: I prefer molten peanut butter enough. The uh um iPhone 467 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: and iPod app um epic Win. Have you heard of this. 468 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: It's a it's a really cool little app um and 469 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,119 Speaker 1: it's uh it's not free. I think it's two in 470 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,640 Speaker 1: the app store as of right now when I happen 471 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: to be looking at it. I learned about it a 472 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: few months ago. Um. But yeah, it's a it's a 473 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:41,159 Speaker 1: to do list and so you write down the stuff 474 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: you have to do and they give you little badges 475 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,120 Speaker 1: and things when you actually check stuff off your list, 476 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: and you level up after a certain amount of time, 477 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 1: and there are new characters and things. So it's um. Uh. 478 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 1: It's gotten mixed reviews, I would say mostly positive. I've 479 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:57,640 Speaker 1: heard people talking about it in a in a kind 480 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 1: of cool way, and um. There are other forms of 481 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: gamification too for companies now when they're trying to encourage 482 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: human resources people to sign everybody at your company up 483 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: and uh. It allows people to give other people a 484 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: pat on the back in a game. In the game, 485 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: say hey, you want to badge because you really turn 486 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: that job around for me really quickly, and I appreciate it. 487 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: And you know there there are elements of gamification that 488 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 1: have been in the workplace for a while to like, um, like, 489 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 1: whenever you have those team building retreats, that's kind of 490 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: a gamification thing because again, you're you're you're doing the 491 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: team building so that you can, in theory, at any rate, 492 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 1: apply those team building skills you you you learn on 493 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 1: these retreats to actual work in the office. But in 494 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,120 Speaker 1: the case of the retreats, it's to build a team 495 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: to do things like get across a an obstacle course, 496 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,120 Speaker 1: you know that kind of stuff, or you know, everyone 497 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: is linked together by this one rope and you have 498 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: to find how to get free of the rope in 499 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: the smallest number the fewest number of moves possible, that 500 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: kind of thing, and it's all problem solving skills and 501 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 1: teamwork that are part of it. But uh, you know, 502 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 1: the goal isn't just to have a good time and 503 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 1: and you know, to get across an obstacle course. The 504 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:15,919 Speaker 1: goal is to build the skills that you're going to 505 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 1: need to successfully work your way in that office. So 506 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: uh yeah, I mean that kind of gamification has been 507 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: around for for ages and ages, and it's just now 508 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 1: we're getting to a point where the layer is more obvious. 509 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: It's it's more incorporated directly into whatever it is we're doing. 510 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: And we're gonna see lots of this, I think, for 511 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: at least a year. Um. And if it proves like 512 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 1: to truly be a success, we're going to see it 513 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: from here on out. If people get bored of it, 514 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: then we'll move on to the next thing. So that, 515 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: I've seen people criticize gamification to say that, well, one, 516 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: it's been around forever, and to it's a fad um 517 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: or a buzzword. But we'll see, well it is. It 518 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: is a buzzword. It's certainly something that people have been 519 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: studying as what it is sort of a hey, would 520 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: you look at that, um, and how can I make 521 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: use of this in training or education or you know, 522 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: getting my employees to feel better about themselves or getting 523 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: more customers in the door? Um, you know we have. 524 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: I would be remiss if I didn't mention one of 525 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: my favorite How stuff Works dot Com authors, Stephanie Crawford, 526 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 1: who has an article on the side how Gamification Works 527 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: that highly recommended. It's an excellent article, and she mentions 528 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 1: people who have been influential and sort of creating, you know, 529 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: establishing themselves as experts in the field. Like Jane McGonagall. Yeah, 530 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 1: she gave a keynote presentation atself by south West, which 531 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 1: I hear was amazing. Yeah yeah, um and um oh, 532 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 1: I'm just trying to find the other person's name. There 533 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: are several other people who have been really uh it 534 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: was Gabe Zickerman. Who who was I've seen there's a 535 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: couple pieces on O'Riley the a tech publisher, UM where 536 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: you can there's I think a webcast and some other 537 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: things that you can go check out if you're interested 538 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: in it. UM. But you know, they're they're really sort 539 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 1: of studying this now and and finding ways that people 540 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: can incorporate it. So I'm I'm inclined to say. I mean, 541 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: if it makes the stuff that we do every day 542 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: a little less boring, um and makes people more likely 543 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: to be engaged, I don't I don't see it going 544 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: away anytime soon. I certainly think that it's uh, it 545 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: certainly works on me every time I, uh, you know, 546 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: get stuck in some zinga thing where I have to 547 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: plant something and be back in twenty minutes. Otherwise it 548 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 1: fails miserably, I go, I am such a sucker. Well, 549 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: and I mean, I'm still using four square. Uh. That 550 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 1: was one of those you know, when I first started 551 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 1: using Twitter. I've said this told this story is several 552 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: times of the podcast too. When I first started using Twitter, 553 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: I use it for about a month and then I stopped, 554 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: and then about three or four months later I picked 555 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: it up again, and then I've been using it ever since. Uh. 556 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: Four square. There was a good ants that I was 557 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: going to I installed it, I used it for a 558 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: couple of weeks, thought it was kind of interesting, and 559 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: then just sort of forgot about it. And it wasn't 560 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: until I think I managed to become mayor of a 561 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: local theater in Atlanta, Stage Theater, and that's when I 562 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: the bug bit me and Uh. It also helps that 563 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: actors are, by their nature, very competitive, and so I 564 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 1: and my fellow actors I do acting occasionally, but I 565 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 1: am my fellow actors now try to become the mayor 566 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: of various UH stages around town. And by the way, 567 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: this runs the family. My sister is the mayor of 568 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: a local theater in Atlanta too, Because when I got 569 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: there to check in, I said, oh, she's she's the mayor, 570 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: and I got a little upset actually, because it was 571 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: one of those places that had a special where you 572 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: could get a discount off your tickets. Well, she was 573 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 1: performing in the show. She wasn't buying. She couldn't even 574 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: take advantage of the offer. She was in the That's 575 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: why she had become the mayor, because she had been 576 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: there for all the rehearsals and the performances. I love you, 577 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: says yeah, I have to say that all the time. 578 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 1: Like I love my wife and I love my sister. 579 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: The women in my life are wonderful. I'm I'm very 580 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: happy with them. Please don't beat me up, don't make 581 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 1: a game of it. And that wraps up this classic 582 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: episode of tech Stuff. Hope you enjoyed it. I have 583 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: a lot more to say about gamification. I'm sure I'm 584 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,719 Speaker 1: going to do a follow up on this particular topic, 585 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: because there's a lot more to say post two thousand 586 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: eleven about gamification and how that has played into different 587 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: arenas in the tech space and as well as business 588 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: in general. And we can also look at how certain 589 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: uh strategies in gamification have created sort of a backlash 590 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 1: against it. So I plan on doing a follow up 591 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 1: episode to this topic in the near future. You should 592 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: be getting brand new shows next week. I hope you 593 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 1: guys enjoy them. If you have any suggestions for future topics, 594 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: future co hosts, future you know, vacation destinations for Jonathan Strickland, 595 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: let me know. You can reach me on Facebook or Twitter. 596 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: The handle for both is text stuff H s W 597 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: and I'll talk to you again really soon. Tech Stuff 598 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. 599 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the i 600 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 601 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.