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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Koby Bulleted Cool Stuff. What is

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Speaker 2: usually your weekly reminder about that when there's bad things,

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Speaker 2: you can do good things, But sometimes it just is

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Speaker 2: a weird show. But I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy, and

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Speaker 2: with me today is my guest Miriam. Hello, Miriam, how

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Speaker 2: are you hi?

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Speaker 3: Margaret? That bodes extremely strangely. I can't wait to hear

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Speaker 3: what we're talking about now.

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Speaker 2: It's like this week is almost just a true crime episode,

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Speaker 2: but not quite. You'll probably figure out pretty quick what

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Speaker 2: it's about, but the audience might take a little bit longer.

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Speaker 2: But Sophie is here. Hi, Sophie.

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Speaker 1: I'm really mad that we're recording because we were having

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Speaker 1: such a good time, so this is gonna be a

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Speaker 1: but you promised me this was a fun one, so

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Speaker 1: I'll accept.

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Speaker 3: I'll accept.

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Speaker 2: I believe you that I promised that. And our audio

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Speaker 2: engineer Rory. Hi, Rory, Hi, riy Hey Rory. Our theme

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Speaker 2: musical is written for us by unwoman because well it's

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Speaker 2: not the because doesn't go there. Well, but what we're

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Speaker 2: doing that should be fun is I want to do

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Speaker 2: something a little bit different this week. Today. I want

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Speaker 2: to talk about a story that is morally complex. I

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Speaker 2: want to talk about someone who, at the end of it,

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Speaker 2: is not a hero whose actions I don't support, but

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Speaker 2: whose reasoning is really interesting. Because I want to talk

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Speaker 2: about something that no one is talking about. I want

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Speaker 2: to talk about a young man with an almost cliche

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Speaker 2: Italian name who was suffering from chronic pain and went

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Speaker 2: out and bought a gun and killed someone rather important.

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Speaker 3: I've already figured it out. Yeah, is it, Jiuseppe Zangara?

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Speaker 1: It is. Yes, I'm obsessed with you, Miriam.

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Speaker 3: And I'm obsessed with Stephen Sondheim.

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Speaker 2: And you. Obviously it's even some I'm the guy who

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Speaker 2: wrote the musical.

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Speaker 3: He wrote the musical Assassins, in which Jasepi Zangara gets

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Speaker 3: a song about, Yeah, how he killed Roosevelt. Well, he

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Speaker 3: tried to kill Roosevelt. He didn't. He killed the mayor

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Speaker 3: of Chicago.

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Speaker 2: I see you know the cliff notes already of this

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Speaker 2: particular story.

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Speaker 1: This is going to be very fun.

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Speaker 3: It is one of many pieces of American history that

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Speaker 3: I know, primarily through the musical About It. The only

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Speaker 3: parts of American history I don't know from the musical

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Speaker 3: about It is anything to do with Alexander Hamilton because

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Speaker 3: I just don't care for that show that much.

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Speaker 1: I've never seen it.

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Speaker 2: I had this theory. I was thinking about it because

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Speaker 2: for some reason, the musical Assassins comes up a lot

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Speaker 2: in my life. But it might be because I talked

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Speaker 2: to you a lot.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna say that, does it? Does it

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Speaker 3: come up usually when I'm around because I talk about

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Speaker 3: the musical Assassins like more than most people.

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Speaker 2: And I have this theory that the two kinds of

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Speaker 2: people who know this musical are theater nerds and history nerds.

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Speaker 3: Hmmm, I stand at the overlap of that Ben diagram.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Assassins of course famously features Emma Goldman as a character,

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Speaker 3: and she gets a lot of good lines.

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Speaker 2: I actually never seen it. I really need to see it.

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Speaker 3: It's worth checking out.

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Speaker 2: I've heard some of the songs, I think from you.

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Speaker 2: Probably About ninety years ago, the US elected a disabled

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Speaker 2: man named Franklin Delano Roosevelt to the office of the

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Speaker 2: President of the United States of America FDR. I will

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Speaker 2: call him from here on out, because there's another Roosevelt,

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Speaker 2: and they're not They're not as related as you like

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Speaker 2: think they are related, but it's not like he's not

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Speaker 2: Teddy's kid. Whatever. I've looked this up before. FDR went

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Speaker 2: on to become one of the most progressive presidents in

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Speaker 2: US history and was the longest serving president by a

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Speaker 2: real solid amount. He got elected four times before he

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Speaker 2: died in office, and shortly afterwards people are like, we

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Speaker 2: should have term limits.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I believe that. Prior to his third term, the

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Speaker 3: two terms thing was just like a tradition. It was

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Speaker 3: basically like just accepted that if you serve two terms

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Speaker 3: as president, you would not run again. And it was

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Speaker 3: only like when he just kept running and kept getting

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Speaker 3: elected that people were like, oh, maybe this isn't just

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Speaker 3: like a practice, but it should be like a rule.

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Speaker 3: And I think, like not to bring up the current

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Speaker 3: era too soon, but like the entirety of the Trump

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Speaker 3: presidency has been like was like the first one obviously

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Speaker 3: was people discovering like what things happening in American government

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Speaker 3: were like normalized practices rather than rules, you know, like, oh, oh,

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Speaker 3: he was allowed to do that the whole time. It

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Speaker 3: just simply wasn't done up until then, and then realizing

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Speaker 3: like maybe we should have actually said they couldn't do that.

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Speaker 2: So are you saying that FDRs is the Trump of

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Speaker 2: his time.

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Speaker 3: I mean, he certainly did put a lot of people

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Speaker 3: in concentration camps, so that's true. I'm not actually saying that.

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Speaker 3: But there's are two points of comparison right there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, two of the least similar American presidents that have

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Speaker 2: ever existed, but with two strong interesting points of overlap. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: FDR oversaw America the United States during two of the

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Speaker 2: most existential threats has faced, the Great Depression and then

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Speaker 2: World War Two. He also gave my hobo grandfather a

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Speaker 2: job by enacting the New Deal, and he legalized drinking alcohol.

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Speaker 2: That's some other stuff.

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Speaker 3: People were real ready for that one, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think that was like even like, I

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Speaker 2: don't think he was like, Ah, this is the thing

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna that was just gonna happen under his watch.

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Speaker 2: But we actually covered the first woman Secretary, Francis Perkins,

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Speaker 2: on this show, who gave him a lot of the

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Speaker 2: ideas for the New Deal. Most of what we said

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Speaker 2: about FDR in the show has been in those episodes,

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Speaker 2: and they're worth listening to. I'm not trying to be

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Speaker 2: like and he was perfect in every way. There was

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Speaker 2: the whole concentration camp thing like it's he was a

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Speaker 2: president of a giant, evil colonial power, you know. But

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Speaker 2: as far as things go, I think it's worth understanding

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Speaker 2: for the fact that our hero Zengar is not a hero.

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Speaker 3: Our guy protagonist, we'll say protagonist is a protagonist.

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Speaker 2: FDR almost didn't become president because about three weeks before

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Speaker 2: the inauguration on February fifteenth, nineteen thirty three, an unemployed

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Speaker 2: brick layer from Italy named giuseppe's Angara tried to kill

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Speaker 2: him instead. As Miriam has already told you spoilers, no,

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Speaker 2: it's fine, this whole this is the whole spoiler section anyway, right,

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Speaker 2: Giuseppe took out the mayor of Chicago by accident, a

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Speaker 2: guy named anton Cermac, who I was like, well, I

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Speaker 2: bet that guy was like bad, right, No, literally.

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Speaker 3: The only thing I know about him is that as

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Speaker 3: he like lay dying, he said to FDR like, I'm

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Speaker 3: glad he hit me instead of you, which is like

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Speaker 3: just such a cool thing for a shot and dying

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Speaker 3: person to say that. I can only assume he like

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Speaker 3: at least was a little cool. Despite the whole being

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Speaker 3: a mayor thing.

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Speaker 2: His actual last thing he said was even cooler. Oh shit,

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Speaker 2: And I'm not going to tell you what it is

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Speaker 2: until he got to it.

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Speaker 3: I gotta say, I mayor of Chicago is not like

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Speaker 3: a job associated with being a cool person.

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Speaker 2: So exactly. And so I had this whole like the

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Speaker 2: whole time, I'm like, well, you know, he did kill

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Speaker 2: a politician and sometimes, and then I was like reading

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Speaker 2: about it and I was like, oh no, oh no,

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Speaker 2: this whole story is a tragedy. It's a really interesting tragedy.

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Speaker 2: Jiuseppe took out the mayor of Chicago and then he

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Speaker 2: was immediately arrested, tried, and executed in the fastest legal

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Speaker 2: execution in the United States in the twentieth century. It

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Speaker 2: was three weeks to conviction, five weeks to his death.

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Speaker 2: He's one of the most forgotten would be assassins in

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Speaker 2: US history because no one quite wants to claim him.

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Speaker 2: The left isn't really excited about him having been he

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Speaker 2: was a leftist. He wasn't ideologically associated with any particular

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Speaker 2: like group, but people are like not quick to claim

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Speaker 2: him on the left because he was FDR was kind

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Speaker 2: of the best thing going to me. It's a little

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Speaker 2: bit like if Bernie had won in twenty sixteen and

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Speaker 2: then like a kind of wing not leftist to try

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Speaker 2: to take him out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I don't think. But my impression, and

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Speaker 3: again my impression drawn primarily from a single song in

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Speaker 3: a musical, is that whatever his politics were, he did

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Speaker 3: not view his own action as politically motivated so much

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Speaker 3: as like personally motivated.

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Speaker 2: Is that No, that's the thing. That's the thing about Zengara. Okay, great, everyone,

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Speaker 2: like there's all of these things that were like, we

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Speaker 2: don't know why he did it. He wrote really clear,

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Speaker 2: he's a whole autobiography. We're gonna do huge excerpts from it.

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Speaker 2: It's a short autobiography, but like it's like Zene length autobiography.

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Speaker 2: He was really clear about why he did it, and

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Speaker 2: it was like spoiler, it was because capitalists are bad

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Speaker 2: and he wanted communism. Like okay, but people are like,

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Speaker 2: we don't know what was possibly in his mind, and

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Speaker 2: they're like, he wrote it out. He just wasn't part

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Speaker 2: of a He also like wasn't a communist in the

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Speaker 2: nineteen thirty three cents right, he had no allegiance to

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Speaker 2: any political party, let alone Russia. But anyway, all right, well, and.

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Speaker 3: Like just in terms of the strategy of his you know,

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Speaker 3: like lan chol Gosh killed President William McKinley because he

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Speaker 3: was an anarchist and fuck presidents and fuck McKinley in

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Speaker 3: particular was sort of his approach, And there's like a

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Speaker 3: coherence to that, right, even though it actually ended really

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Speaker 3: badly for anarchists. But like, my impression was that the

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Speaker 3: targeting of FDR in particular was not as like, okay.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, let me tell you about why am I at?

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Speaker 3: You're going to tell me?

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Speaker 1: So?

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Speaker 2: There are articles and articles and books about Joseppe Zangara

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Speaker 2: full of wild conspiracy theories. But after reading all of

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Speaker 2: this stuff, everything I could find about the case and

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Speaker 2: about him and stuff, I get the appeal of the

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Speaker 2: conspiracy thinking that has drifted into this particular narrative. This

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Speaker 2: is how I was like, Oh, lord, I now understand

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Speaker 2: the appeal of doing true crime investigation, because like there's

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Speaker 2: some really interesting holes in the official story about.

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Speaker 3: Him, as long as your version of true crime is

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Speaker 3: about like unpacking ninety year old attempted assassinations of FDR

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Speaker 3: and not about like encouraging white, middle class suburban women

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Speaker 3: to think they're going to get sex trafficked in the

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Speaker 3: target parking lot, like, I'm okay with it.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, No, I thought all true crime was just

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Speaker 2: about political assassinations from one hundred years ago. Is there

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Speaker 2: another kind that sounds awful?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 3: I must have dreamt that kind.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. But we do know. We know he tried

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Speaker 2: to kill FDR because FDR was a capitalist. He was

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Speaker 2: the president of the capitalist country, and JOSEPPI wanted to

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Speaker 2: kill capitalists. He did it because he was poor as

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Speaker 2: fuck and he'd been absolutely fucked over by capitalist healthcare

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Speaker 2: his entire life. Doctors, I don't know, is this in

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Speaker 2: a song? Doctors took out his appendix because he had

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Speaker 2: chronic stomach pain and digestion problems, and they didn't have

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Speaker 2: any reason to believe that it was his appendix that

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Speaker 2: was causing that problem.

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Speaker 3: The chronic stomach pain is in the musical, and there

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Speaker 3: is a scene where he complains loudly about how much

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Speaker 3: his stomach hurts, and another character in the like surreal

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Speaker 3: all the assassins hanging out scene goes, well, have you

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Speaker 3: considered assassinating FDR?

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Speaker 2: Well, the surgery didn't solve anything. And also assassinating FDR

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Speaker 2: wouldn't have solved anything.

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Speaker 3: Well, he was executed, which did probably fix the stomach pain.

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Speaker 2: That's true. That's true.

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Speaker 3: That's not like the best approach, but it can't be

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Speaker 3: denied that five weeks later he had no stomach pain.

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Speaker 2: No, and I mean, honestly, like my end result, the

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Speaker 2: thing that I was like after reading all this, I'm like,

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Speaker 2: this is an elaborate suicide by cop. This is a

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Speaker 2: suicide by state.

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Speaker 3: Right, And that's probably why he was executed so quickly, right,

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Speaker 3: because I'm sure he didn't like do appeals, right.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, No, his like defense was I killed them.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to kill him because he was a capitalist.

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Speaker 2: That was just like a he was. Really he stuck

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Speaker 2: to his guns in all ways. Well, he only had

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Speaker 2: one gun, but oh, a couple overtime. Anyway, we'll talk

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Speaker 2: about it.

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Speaker 3: One literal gun and some other metaphorical guns.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, there was other literal guns earlier in his

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Speaker 2: life when he tried to kill a king. But that's

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Speaker 2: besides the point.

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Speaker 3: He tried to kill a king.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, it would have been so much better. This

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Speaker 2: would be a regular people who did cool stuff if

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Speaker 2: he'd killed the king who made Mussolini the dictator.

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Speaker 3: Like that seems like a cool thing.

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Speaker 2: He tried to do it anyway. Okay. The saga of

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Speaker 2: Giuseppe Zangara Jiseeppi's Angara had a fucking rough life. He

250
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Speaker 2: was born on September seventh, nineteen hundred, which makes it

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Speaker 2: really easy to know how old you are. I'm just

252
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Speaker 2: gonna say, like, be born on a round number.

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Speaker 3: Don't even have to do math.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally in the southern region of Italy called Calabria.

255
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Speaker 2: This is the toe of the boot, the southwestmost part

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Speaker 2: of Italy. While still on the mainland. Just imagine that

257
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Speaker 2: the boot is kicking Sicily, which is an island, and

258
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Speaker 2: now you just you know whatever. His mother was named Rosina.

259
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Speaker 2: His father was Salvatore. Neither was particularly good to him.

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Speaker 2: He wrote, quote, the first day I was born, the

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Speaker 2: doctors found a sickness in my ears and decided to

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Speaker 2: operate on them at once. When my mother heard about

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Speaker 2: the sickness, she said, I was bad luck. I do

264
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Speaker 2: not remember my mother. She died when I was two

265
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Speaker 2: years old while giving birth to a child. The child

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Speaker 2: died also, Jesus, that.

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Speaker 3: Is I'm sure neonatal ear surgery was in great shape

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Speaker 3: in the year nineteen hundred.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean that part seemed to work. I

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Speaker 2: doubt that caused his stomach pain. You know. No, but

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Speaker 2: I think his mother was wrong about which child was unlucky.

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Speaker 2: I will just go ahead and say.

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Speaker 3: Maybe the bad luck just took a while.

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Speaker 2: To kick in. Yeah, maybe that is rough.

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Speaker 3: That is a rough first day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, no, And then here's the next couple

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Speaker 2: of years of his life. Quote again. When I was

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Speaker 2: three years old, I remember falling down two flights of

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Speaker 2: stairs in the house where we lived. The stairs were

280
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Speaker 2: built of stone, and when I was picked up, everyone

281
00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,760
Speaker 2: thought I was dead. When I was four years old,

282
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Speaker 2: I remember falling into a fire and burning my leg.

283
00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,840
Speaker 2: Thus my bad luck continued. Also, this was the first

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Speaker 2: time I remembered my name and realized that my mother

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Speaker 2: was dead. I remember this dimly, just like a dream.

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Speaker 3: Oh buddy, Yeah, you should be allowed to kill the

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Speaker 3: king of Italy.

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Speaker 2: I know, I know.

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Speaker 3: If it is it going to make you feel better

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Speaker 3: to kill the king of Italy, yeah, V for it.

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Speaker 2: At the age of five, while visiting one day at

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Speaker 2: a house of a friend of my aunt, I fell

293
00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,960
Speaker 2: down the stairs and broke my wrist. I remember my

294
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Speaker 2: aunt telling everyone how unlucky I was and mentioning to

295
00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:12,880
Speaker 2: them all my hard luck and all the accidents I

296
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Speaker 2: already had.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to go back to that first piece

298
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Speaker 3: of bad luck. But this is a lot of falls.

299
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Speaker 3: And if his ear, oh, that's okay. And why am

300
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,720
Speaker 3: I trying to diagnose this guy? But like I'm just saying,

301
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:32,320
Speaker 3: if his ear was fucked up by perhaps some nineteen

302
00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:36,080
Speaker 3: hundred surgery, then that might have damaged his inner ear.

303
00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,240
Speaker 3: And that's why he keeps falling downstairs and into fires

304
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,680
Speaker 3: and like all that shit, I'm sure there's some more

305
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:43,480
Speaker 3: falls coming. What else happened to this guy?

306
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Speaker 2: Most of the rest of the incredible bad stuff I'm

307
00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:48,880
Speaker 2: going to talk about now is because of how terrible

308
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,960
Speaker 2: his family his father was. But one of the worst

309
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,440
Speaker 2: bits of luck he had was being born to his father.

310
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Speaker 2: He wanted to go to school, but his father started

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Speaker 2: making him work in the fields. I want you to

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Speaker 2: guess how old he was when he started working.

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Speaker 3: God, Okay, I'm gonna try. I'm not gonna like say

314
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,600
Speaker 3: a comically you know, young age, Like I'm not gonna

315
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,880
Speaker 3: say like seven months, you know, But I'm trying to think, like,

316
00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,560
Speaker 3: at what age a child, Like if I were a

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Speaker 3: real evil bastard, what what age could I imagine a

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Speaker 3: child performing a useful function in a field?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

320
00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:22,720
Speaker 1: Six?

321
00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:26,480
Speaker 2: Close? You are too optimistic.

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Speaker 3: Five oh man, literal preschool age. Huh.

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Speaker 1: I was going like this the entire time you were guessing, listeners,

324
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Speaker 1: I was flashing a five.

325
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:40,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we called it.

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Speaker 3: Write it down next time.

327
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Speaker 2: Well, we've all learned that hand gesters don't mean anything.

328
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Speaker 2: There's one thing we've learned this last week.

329
00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,000
Speaker 3: Maybe Elon was just trying to tell us.

330
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Speaker 2: Five yeah, totally, just very emphatically.

331
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Speaker 3: Oh fuck that.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

333
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Speaker 2: I think what happened. I think his first jobs weren't

334
00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:02,920
Speaker 2: even just at his own farm. I think his dad

335
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,720
Speaker 2: was buying livestock on credit. His dad was like poor

336
00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,960
Speaker 2: but owned stuff like he owned a farm, and he

337
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:11,919
Speaker 2: owned some land, and he was always trying new like

338
00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,639
Speaker 2: ventures and stuff like I'm gonna open a vineyard. But

339
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,680
Speaker 2: his only capital he had was IDT a five year old,

340
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:22,400
Speaker 2: So he would he would buy live stock on credit

341
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,480
Speaker 2: and then be like the credit repayment is that my

342
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Speaker 2: five year old will go work for you.

343
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Speaker 3: Jeesus, Like, I have some questions for the people who

344
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:32,639
Speaker 3: took him up on that deal.

345
00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:34,760
Speaker 2: Right, like like what's wrong with you?

346
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Speaker 3: Yeah? Like what the fuck?

347
00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:40,120
Speaker 2: Yeah? And whenever he failed at work, his father would

348
00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:42,879
Speaker 2: beat him more or lesson to unconsciousness, and so his

349
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:45,720
Speaker 2: stomach troubles began at the age of five or six

350
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Speaker 2: when he entered the workforce. He was very convinced and

351
00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,240
Speaker 2: I see no reason to doubt him that his trouble

352
00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,840
Speaker 2: started when he started working at the age of five,

353
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Speaker 2: and it is because of the stress and the beatings

354
00:17:57,840 --> 00:17:59,400
Speaker 2: that his lifelong illness began.

355
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Speaker 3: I mean, you're not supposed to be working and getting

356
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:04,439
Speaker 3: beaten at age five, so I'm sure it had some

357
00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:05,600
Speaker 3: negative health impacts.

358
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. His dad started leaving to go to the US

359
00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:11,800
Speaker 2: to work for months or years at a time when

360
00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:15,639
Speaker 2: JOSEPPI was like nine or so, but left strict orders

361
00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,280
Speaker 2: with the stepmother that the kid could not go to school,

362
00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,320
Speaker 2: he had to go to work. By the time he

363
00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,080
Speaker 2: was eleven, he had to manage the family farm by himself.

364
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:31,840
Speaker 2: Come on, he know, hey know, I barely remember being eleven,

365
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:37,080
Speaker 2: Like I was reading my first fantasy books. I mean, uh,

366
00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,080
Speaker 2: probably before then, but like I don't know.

367
00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:45,040
Speaker 3: When I was eleven, my biggest like responsibility was that

368
00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:48,040
Speaker 3: I was supposed to clean the kitty litter box. Yeah

369
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:49,119
Speaker 3: I often did not.

370
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:57,040
Speaker 2: Yeah totally. He got sicker and sicker. One time he overslept,

371
00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,040
Speaker 2: so his father stripped him naked and beat him with

372
00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:00,520
Speaker 2: a piece of wood and left him in the fields.

373
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,800
Speaker 2: I don't normally go into the sort of like more

374
00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,119
Speaker 2: details around this kind of like abuse and stuff. I

375
00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,840
Speaker 2: think it's a little bit important to understand his mindset.

376
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,880
Speaker 2: And then also because the whole strip naked and beaten

377
00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:13,240
Speaker 2: thing is going to come up later when he's in

378
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:14,160
Speaker 2: the hands of the state.

379
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,120
Speaker 3: It does feel important to know because like a thing,

380
00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,040
Speaker 3: a sense that I had about him was that he

381
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,480
Speaker 3: had a life that sucked. But I truly did not

382
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:24,679
Speaker 3: realize how much his life sucked, and we have not

383
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,760
Speaker 3: even gotten like through the first fifteen years of bit.

384
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,560
Speaker 2: Yeah he's like eleven right now. Yeah totally. Another time

385
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,560
Speaker 2: his pants were ripped and so he fixed them, so

386
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,639
Speaker 2: his father beat him. I don't understand that one, and

387
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:39,000
Speaker 2: I don't think Joeppe did either.

388
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,679
Speaker 3: Actually seems like he performed a chore.

389
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:47,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, saved his dad some money. Another time he was

390
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:49,600
Speaker 2: bed ridden for two weeks because he was beaten in

391
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,880
Speaker 2: the head so hard, which I'm sure didn't help anything.

392
00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:58,840
Speaker 2: Jeppie never grew up to be a particularly large kid.

393
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:00,960
Speaker 2: I feel like the the thing that might have been

394
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,400
Speaker 2: made it into the musical. He was five foot one

395
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:06,840
Speaker 2: when he died. He was all of one hundred and

396
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:07,879
Speaker 2: five pounds.

397
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 3: Well, I do know from the musical that when he

398
00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,119
Speaker 3: did the assassination he was standing on a chair to

399
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,439
Speaker 3: see above the crowd. It's true, he must not have

400
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,639
Speaker 3: been a you know, he probably wasn't six foot, but no,

401
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:20,320
Speaker 3: five to one is little.

402
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:25,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. His only real interest in life at any point

403
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,440
Speaker 2: was traveling. Seemed to be the only thing that brought

404
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:28,520
Speaker 2: him happiness.

405
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:30,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, because he wanted to get the fuck away from

406
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:31,200
Speaker 3: his dad.

407
00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:32,840
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that was the first thing he did.

408
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:38,000
Speaker 3: He's like interests traveling places anywhere that isn't this specific farm.

409
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:39,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. I would like to not be in the toe

410
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:40,480
Speaker 2: of the boot anymore.

411
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, gotta be better places.

412
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. When he was seventeen, he left home to work

413
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,520
Speaker 2: all over Italy despite intense chronic stomach pain. I think

414
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:53,360
Speaker 2: he was basically a hobo. He talks about how he's

415
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,720
Speaker 2: like sleeping outside and taking whatever work he could get,

416
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,119
Speaker 2: and all along he started hating how rich people had

417
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 2: to be addressed differently than working people, how they needed

418
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 2: to be called like maestro and shit like that.

419
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:05,960
Speaker 3: Legit.

420
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 2: I don't know a lot about the honorifics he used

421
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,719
Speaker 2: in nineteenth century Italy, but you know, he didn't like it,

422
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 2: and he hit upon his first political realization. Society shouldn't

423
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,440
Speaker 2: be structured so that poor kids have to work while

424
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:20,639
Speaker 2: rich kids go to school.

425
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:23,240
Speaker 3: No lies detected so far.

426
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:27,679
Speaker 2: Yeah. One of his earliest memories, he's about five. He

427
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,719
Speaker 2: is digging in the dirt next to a road, watching

428
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:32,919
Speaker 2: a carriage full of rich kids go by on their

429
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,360
Speaker 2: way to school. And he basically was like, well, that's

430
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,359
Speaker 2: not that's not good. That's not how things should be.

431
00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,800
Speaker 2: And he actually, I think while his dad was away

432
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:44,639
Speaker 2: when he was like five or six, he got to

433
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:46,719
Speaker 2: go to school for about two months and it was

434
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 2: like the most joyous, happy thing in his life or whatever,

435
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:51,880
Speaker 2: and then like dad came back, was like, no more school.

436
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:52,960
Speaker 2: That was the end of his schooling.

437
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,639
Speaker 4: So was he illiterate. I mean, I'm assuming no, no,

438
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,679
Speaker 4: that's what's interesting too. He was smart as shit. He

439
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 4: spoke way more languages than all the people hated him,

440
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:06,480
Speaker 4: but every European does. But he was not educated and

441
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 4: he wasn't even like theory he did. He wasn't even

442
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 4: self educated really in terms of like theory and stuff, right,

443
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 4: But he certainly at the end of his life was

444
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 4: reading both English and Italian. And he also he passed

445
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 4: the citizenship tests in the US, which were harder at

446
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:24,240
Speaker 4: that point than they were at some point later in

447
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 4: the twentieth century. I couldn't tell you exactly, and part

448
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:33,119
Speaker 4: of that was like proving multiple English competency exams. WHOA

449
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 4: so I believe it was probably like written in oral.

450
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 4: He spoke with a really heavy accent. So everyone thought

451
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:41,359
Speaker 4: he was dumb because he was speaking a second language

452
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 4: while they were speaking a first language, and white Americans

453
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 4: are not smart at understanding things. But yeah, no, he

454
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 4: he could read and write, Okay, yeah, wow, He wasn't

455
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 4: writing Shakespeare's stuff, you know.

456
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,399
Speaker 2: He wrote a very plain and direct with two months

457
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 2: of school. Yeah, so this is you know, his earliest

458
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 2: political realizations is school specifically matters to him, and he

459
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,159
Speaker 2: blames his bad luck in life on the fact that

460
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 2: he didn't get to go all the while, it remembers said,

461
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 2: I was easy to keep track of his age. When

462
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,400
Speaker 2: he is seventeen, there is a.

463
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 3: World war going on, some stuff going on.

464
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, so as soon as he turned eighteen, this is

465
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 2: the military has better ethics than the workforce. Yeah, as

466
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 2: soon as he turns eighteen, they can script him as

467
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 2: a laborer into the military and he starts digging trenches

468
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,400
Speaker 2: at the front. And he wrote about this time, quote

469
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 2: this is not another part of the whole, like, oh, yeah, totally.

470
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 2: I didn't have any politics, he wrote, quote, I did

471
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 2: not have any ill feelings against the Austrians and did

472
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 2: not consider them my enemies. My real enemy was the

473
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 2: capitalist government that we were fighting for. The capitalist is

474
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,640
Speaker 2: to blame for all wars and the suffering of the poor.

475
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 2: He's so sympathetic, but you know what is also sympathetic.

476
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 2: I'm not sure either. But here's ads unrelated and we're

477
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:16,880
Speaker 2: back much like those advertisements ended only a few weeks

478
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 2: after they started. The war ended only a few weeks

479
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 2: after he was conscripted because he turned eighteen and nineteen

480
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 2: eighteen the.

481
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 3: Great War in so many ways, like a child no ad.

482
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 2: Stuck in your head, can't get away from it.

483
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 3: It's just one of the ones that irritates me the most, Like,

484
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 3: can I say that on the air.

485
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,199
Speaker 2: I think we should bleep out jumping and then that

486
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 2: way it'll stay okay.

487
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 3: An unspecified company whose ads truly need to stop? Yeah,

488
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 3: I mean no, they need to keep giving you money.

489
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, yeah, no, they're great. I love that advertiser,

490
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 2: just like I love all the advertisers and the Great War,

491
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 2: just like as I as I go back to reading

492
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 2: about how capitalists government destroys everything, so I'm.

493
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 3: Like one expecting him to get the Spanish flu too.

494
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 3: This everything bad seems to happen to this guy.

495
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 2: You know, he doesn't actually, or at least he doesn't nice.

496
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 2: It doesn't make it into anything I've read the Spanish flu.

497
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 3: Took one look at his stomach and was like, nab good.

498
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just want to know.

499
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 1: Magpie was my kidney Stone paid the inspiration for you

500
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 1: writing this episode, Sophie.

501
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 3: What are you gonna do with all your abdominal pain?

502
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: I know, nothing actionable on an open line.

503
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 2: Good call. The reason I am covering this is because

504
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 2: this other Italian decided to stop being a plumber and

505
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 2: do some other stuff last fall and I was like,

506
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 2: this is really interesting, and someone really in passing was like, oh,

507
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 2: like Zangara, and I'm like, oh, yeah, I totally know

508
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 2: what you're talking about. And then I like googled it

509
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 2: and then I ordered the book because I started reading

510
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 2: more about it, and then I there's only one book

511
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,159
Speaker 2: that I've found so far about It's called The Five

512
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 2: Weeks with j just Sepizungaram and the back of it

513
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,360
Speaker 2: is just his autobiography, right, and I just like read

514
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 2: it in one sitting and I was just like, oh

515
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 2: my god, this guy's interesting. Yeah. Yeah, Like I'm going

516
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 2: to break from format to talk about this guy. It'd

517
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 2: also been kind of on this Italy kick with the

518
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 2: podcast anyway, but knowing about the pain you were dealing

519
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 2: with did help make me make the decision. And I

520
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:26,919
Speaker 2: also specifically was like, we need a Miriam for this

521
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 2: one because it's gonna be a morally complex one. And

522
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 2: also Miriam has heard me talk about this person. We've

523
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 2: talked about him before.

524
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,439
Speaker 3: We have previously discussed this guy last time I sang

525
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 3: it you, but I'm not going to do that this time.

526
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 2: No, And it was in much less detail.

527
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: I'm just grateful my pain is being turned into art

528
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: and that Miriam is here. Yeah.

529
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, and all our dogs got to see each other.

530
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 3: We're having a great time.

531
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 2: We're doing great.

532
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 1: My kidney stone past.

533
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, much like the Great War.

534
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 1: Wow, you did it?

535
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 2: What a podcaster I know. And also he's going to

536
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 2: become a stone mason. Oh, he sticks around to help

537
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 2: rebuild the city that had been leveled in the fighting.

538
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 2: That was like the closest to where he was when

539
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 2: he when it ended. And so he becomes a stone mason.

540
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 2: And when he gets home, his dad's like, great, you're

541
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 2: a stonemason. Build me a new house. So he builds

542
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 2: a new house for his dad.

543
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 3: Throw a rock at your dad's head, like, honestly at

544
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:24,919
Speaker 3: this point.

545
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 2: Oh, he he sends money to his dad. His whole

546
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 2: life heartbreaking, part of the tragedy of this whole thing.

547
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 3: Oh, that's so sad.

548
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like his dad is like the capitalist here he was.

549
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 2: Like supporting your family and being supported by your family

550
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 2: is a wonderful thing. People who traveled to other countries

551
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 2: and then send money home to their families are heroes.

552
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 2: When your family views you as purely a non person

553
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 2: that they can just extract resources from. That's bad.

554
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 3: That's so interesting that he saw so clearly the exploitation

555
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 3: of capitalism and did not, for whatever reason, break free

556
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,360
Speaker 3: of the extent to which that was the main dynamic

557
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 3: in his family.

558
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 2: A lot of psychologists later when they were trying to

559
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 2: figure out whether he was crazy, and put a lot

560
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 2: of thought into that particular part of it. But part

561
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 2: of it was because they couldn't conceptualize that, like hating

562
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,880
Speaker 2: the state was a rational thing, you know. So they

563
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 2: were like, Oh, he just had daddy issues. That's why

564
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 2: he killed FDR.

565
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 3: So many people have daddy issues and so few people

566
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 3: have killed FDR.

567
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't remember what killed FDR in the end,

568
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 2: so I can't make an effective joke.

569
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,640
Speaker 3: I think he died of natural causes.

570
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 2: So yeah, and he gets home and he rebuilds his

571
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 2: dad a house, and he's like, I want to work

572
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 2: anywhere but for my dad, but no one in town

573
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 2: will hire him because they're like, no, you have to

574
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 2: go work for your dad. I think the dad has

575
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 2: like scared everyone.

576
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 3: Well, his dad sounds fucking scary.

577
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: I know.

578
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 2: When he was twenty one, they conscripted him back into

579
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 2: the army as a soldier this time, even though, as

580
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 2: he put it, quote, I was not physically fit or able,

581
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 2: but they took me anyway. Damn. It was terrible for

582
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 2: him and his health. His stomach hurt most of all

583
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 2: when he held a rifle. He saw army doctors who

584
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 2: told him that his pain was chronic and there was

585
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 2: nothing that could be done, and that was because he

586
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 2: had been worked too hard as a kid. That's what

587
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 2: he claims. They said, I have no particular reason it

588
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 2: to believe him, but this is like the thing he

589
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 2: holds onto, you know, like this is the diagnosis I got. Eventually,

590
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,239
Speaker 2: he wound up the orderly for a forty five year

591
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 2: old captain with a twenty year old wife, and he

592
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 2: spent all of his waking hours like shining that guy's

593
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 2: shoes and bringing him food and stuff. And he hated it.

594
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 2: And he was like, why are all the officers of

595
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 2: the rich people this hmm, I'm starting to notice a trend,

596
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 2: continuing theme. Yeah, he asked for a transfer, and he

597
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 2: actually kind of like the captain was sort of oddly

598
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 2: wasn't like terrible to him, Well, sometimes he was, but

599
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 2: like when he was like, hey, I want to transfer.

600
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 2: I don't want to do this any more. The captain

601
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 2: was like, okay, I'm building a farmhouse. You can go

602
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 2: build me a farm house and tend to the garden.

603
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 2: But as the army.

604
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 3: I mean that sounds corrupt, but also very very low

605
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 3: chance of getting shot while building a farmhouse.

606
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 2: So right, And then after they built the house he

607
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,719
Speaker 2: asked for another transfer. He ended up a guard at

608
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 2: a payroll office, and he spent his time dreaming of

609
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 2: stealing the payroll.

610
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, who wouldn't.

611
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, Somewhere along the line, while he was a soldier,

612
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 2: he tried to do something that if he had succeeded,

613
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 2: well I already spoiled what.

614
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 3: It is, but yeah, I think it was killed the

615
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 3: King of Italy.

616
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, he wanted to kill the King of Italy. Yeah,

617
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 2: and we would have all been saying, good job, Joe

618
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 2: if he had done it, because when he got to America,

619
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 2: I everyon't called him Joe. This is just after the

620
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 2: king appointed Mussolini, like within a couple months. So when

621
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 2: Giuseppe heard that King Vittore Emmanuel the third was coming

622
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 2: to town, he was like, all right, oh, that guy.

623
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 2: And then it would have been particularly interesting because Vittoria

624
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 2: or Victor was the son of Mberto the second, who

625
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 2: was the one who gotten killed by an Italian anarchist

626
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 2: named Gatano Bresci, who was living in Patterson, New Jersey.

627
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 2: And that's gonna come back into the story later. But

628
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 2: he didn't successfully kill the king, and there wasn't a like,

629
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 2: no one knew that he tried to kill the king.

630
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 2: He didn't take a shot, he h He found out

631
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 2: where the king was gonna be. He waited there with

632
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 2: a gun and he was too short, nobody. He couldn't

633
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 2: see over the six foot tall guards.

634
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 3: Oh no, I'm just picturing him like hopping up it.

635
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was so secere ol buddy.

636
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 2: He waited at a railroad depot with a gun in

637
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 2: his pocket, but he couldn't see the king.

638
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 3: As a person of not tallience myself, I can really empathize.

639
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 3: Usually for me, it's just not being able to get

640
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 3: something from the shelf.

641
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: But like, still, that's my life, that's all my life.

642
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: But all my local friends are very tall women.

643
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 2: See, they could kill the king anyway.

644
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 3: They can do whatever they want.

645
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then for the second time in a couple months,

646
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 2: I will now tell a story that includes and then

647
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 2: he wandered the streets of Rome, armed, hoping to see

648
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 2: someone that he wanted to kill. This is the fourth

649
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 2: person that I have described as doing that in the past.

650
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 2: Three of the others were trying to kill Miscellini.

651
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 3: Oh okay, well I know the answer.

652
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 2: Irish lady shot Mussolini in the nose. Yeah, and she

653
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 2: just wandered around. But before that, shoot whatever. You can

654
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 2: go listen to my people who tried to kill Miscellini episode.

655
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 2: And so he's wandering around and then described as time

656
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 2: as he put it, all the time I was a soldier,

657
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 2: I saw nothing but the sons of the capitalists as officers,

658
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 2: and the sons of the working people were the common soldiers.

659
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 2: That was why I wanted to kill the head of

660
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 2: such a government, because I thought that this was the

661
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 2: only way to help the poor working people. The officers

662
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 2: always ate at the table and were served by the

663
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 2: common soldiers. They ate the finest food, while the poor

664
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 2: soldier was treated like a dog. I could not see

665
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 2: why the officers should be treated any better just because

666
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 2: they are the sons of the capitalists. I believe everyone

667
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 2: should be treated alike, what did this man believe?

668
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 3: Oh man, that's a mystery. Yeah, he made it pretty clear.

669
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 2: I think.

670
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 3: Actually, yeah, that's so interesting. It doesn't fit. It doesn't

671
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 3: fit the American narrative.

672
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 5: Because of FDR, right, because like at the time and

673
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 5: like still to this day, FDR was like being called

674
00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 5: a communist by the American right. Yes, so the idea

675
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 5: that like somebody would kill FDR because or try to

676
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 5: kill FDR because they were anti capitalist kind of doesn't

677
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 5: compute with like the narrative of American history.

678
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 2: It's true, and I also think that like he was

679
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 2: probably falsely one to one comparing a president to a king. Yeah, Like,

680
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 2: I don't think it was a good plan that he

681
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 2: later ended up with. You know, I don't think it

682
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 2: would have helped the poor working people, whereas killing the

683
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 2: king kind of mighta.

684
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's hard hard to see how it could have.

685
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, which is funny because it's such a crapshoot

686
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 2: when it's like a when it's a king. But literally

687
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,800
Speaker 2: killing Emberto made Italy a more progressive place.

688
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 3: So kings are bad. I mean presidents aren't great either,

689
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 3: but like, yeah, it is, it is a different it

690
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 3: is a different.

691
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 2: Type of action totally than an elected temporary leader.

692
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

693
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,240
Speaker 3: Although FDR did try to be as permanent as he could.

694
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 3: That's fairs as discussed, but he didn't nobody knew that

695
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 3: at the time. People liked him and kept voting for him,

696
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 3: like for reasons.

697
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,919
Speaker 2: It was probably good that. Like anyway, whatever, I haven't

698
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,399
Speaker 2: read enough about FDR. Maybe I'll do a whole I'll

699
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 2: read about FDR and be like, oh my god, what

700
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 2: was I thinking? You know, I don't know.

701
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 3: I mean the concentration camps. You kind of robust qualifies

702
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 3: from any status as a cool person. If being president

703
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 3: didn't already do it concentration camps, would.

704
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,879
Speaker 2: I suspect being a president probably cuts you out of it.

705
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. I don't like presidents.

706
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 2: No, neither does our hero or Nope, not hero, our protagonist,

707
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,280
Speaker 2: our sympathetic tragic character, antiher.

708
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 3: We don't need a hero. We each have dogs with us.

709
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:50,320
Speaker 2: He's a bad one in particular. After his mandatory service

710
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 2: was done, he moved home for a few months. Then

711
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 2: he got aboard a ship heading to the US, arriving

712
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 2: I can't imagine why I wanted to get away from

713
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,959
Speaker 2: his dad, arriving September second, nineteen.

714
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 3: Twenty Oh, it's almost his birthday.

715
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Oh, good memory. He moved in with his

716
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:10,240
Speaker 2: uncle who lived in Patterson, New Jersey, where all.

717
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 3: The Italian anarchists were hanging out.

718
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 2: Yep. However, since about nineteen twenty two, with the first

719
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:20,879
Speaker 2: Red Scare, the Italian anarchist movement had gone pretty underground. Yeah,

720
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 2: and so that's kind of one of the big question

721
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 2: marks in my Italian of this. I will talk later

722
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,800
Speaker 2: about his feelings about anarchism specifically, but it's like, I

723
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 2: don't know. This is where he moved to. This is

724
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 2: the place that was like the hotbed of Italian anarchism,

725
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:42,399
Speaker 2: and under interrogation, Giuseppe always said that he had no

726
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 2: political allegiance and no accomplices. Apparently, when I said I

727
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 2: was gonna talk about it later, I met really soon.

728
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 2: The federal investigation supports this idea that he did not

729
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 2: have political allegiances and he had no accomplices. There are

730
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 2: a ton of witnesses claiming this or that or some

731
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 2: completely thing, including a lot of lying cops. So there

732
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 2: are people who claim dat accomplices. There are people who

733
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 2: claim he was part of different organizations, everything from various

734
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,879
Speaker 2: mafias to anarchist organizations to communist organizations. Everyone has made

735
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 2: all kinds of claims, but most likely he was acting alone,

736
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:21,839
Speaker 2: working with a sort of anarchistic, communistic ideology that came

737
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 2: from his own mind but also probably from conversation with

738
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 2: other people. But he was also intensely a loner, almost

739
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 2: as much as he has quotes that are like, I

740
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 2: don't like no kings, I don't like no capitalists. He's like,

741
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 2: I don't like people. He's like he.

742
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 3: Hasn't had great experiences with them.

743
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 2: No, he's like, my stomach hurts and I want to

744
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:47,359
Speaker 2: be alone. That's he's really consistent about that. But it's

745
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 2: possible from my point of view that his uncle and

746
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 2: some of the other brick layers are part of the

747
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 2: now underground anarchist movement of Paterson, New Jersey or I

748
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 2: don't know. This is fairly raw conjecture on my part,

749
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 2: but there are odd coincidences about money and where he

750
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 2: got it, Like he was getting checks from his uncle

751
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 2: at one point, despite the fact that he had some

752
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 2: other money. Like all of the stuff around his money

753
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 2: is really weird, and it's the only thing I know

754
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 2: he lied about in his autobiography.

755
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 3: I mean, it's reasonable if he wants to protect his

756
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 3: uncle from any implication that he was involved, that he

757
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 3: you know, whether his uncle was involved or not.

758
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, I did it all alone. That is

759
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 2: what you say, No matter what happened, is I did

760
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 2: all of it alone.

761
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 3: Yeah.

762
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

763
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 3: And like even if his uncle had like given him

764
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 3: money so that he could like eat right, saying oh,

765
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,760
Speaker 3: my uncle didn't give me any money would help protect

766
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 3: his uncle when he is on trial for murder.

767
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:44,959
Speaker 2: It's true, but it's a different thing he lied about.

768
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 2: We'll get to it. And so he's like, oh man, yeah,

769
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 2: this is literally what it says next to my script.

770
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 2: Any political assassin worth anything is going to say I

771
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 2: did it alone. And Gioseppi was the perfect guy to

772
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 2: be able to say that. He had this legacy as

773
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 2: a loaner, and he had this like very clear, indirect

774
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 2: but uneducated but smart way of speaking, and he just

775
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 2: he absolutely could come across that way. But you know

776
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,240
Speaker 2: what comes across a certain way. The irony with which

777
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 2: I transitioned ads. It is why everyone likes me, and

778
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 2: it's why if he subscribed to cooler zon media. You

779
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 2: just get the transitions, which is like all of the bonuses.

780
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 2: Here's ads, here, they are right, now, here, go and

781
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 2: we're back. So there's this other complication to what he

782
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 2: would have had to say at various points too. Giuseppe

783
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 2: he's gonna shoot some people, He's gonna go to jail.

784
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 2: But for a while, the mayor of Chicago was expected

785
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 2: to live. So Giuseppe wasn't facing the death penalty. Oh

786
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 2: but there was, and technically still is. Don't listen to this,

787
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 2: right wingers, right wingers, close your ears. There is a

788
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 2: law in the US that says it's illegal to be

789
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 2: a foreign born anarchist.

790
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:05,280
Speaker 3: Oh yikes.

791
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 2: I believe it's been a law since like nineteen oh

792
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:08,839
Speaker 2: three or something like that.

793
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 3: Wait, what if you are foreign born, come to the US,

794
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 3: and then become an anarchist?

795
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 2: Still count I actually don't want to get into what

796
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 2: can be done with that law. Fuck it, no one

797
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 2: has done anything with this law in a long time.

798
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 2: It ties into some weird anarchist drama from the nineties

799
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,839
Speaker 2: of I'm not going to that's that's for one on

800
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 2: one conversation. But so when they are like, are you

801
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 2: an anarchist or part of a communist party, blah blah

802
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. Right, like, he probably wasn't, But he

803
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 2: also has to say no or they can deport him.

804
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 3: Because he's at but he is being asked, did you

805
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 3: do this other crime?

806
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 2: Right? And Italy is fascist at this point, and he

807
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 2: might not want to go there. Although in the like

808
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 2: every possible witness came forward to lie about him and

809
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 2: tell different versions of the story. One person was like,

810
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 2: he was a fascist, he loved Mussolini, and other people

811
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,280
Speaker 2: are like, no, he hated Musolini, and he was I think.

812
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 3: We've already seen ample evidence he did not like Mussolini.

813
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, he was not. But it's probable that it

814
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 2: all happened just like he told it. It's probably he

815
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 2: acted alone. It's probable that he had no ties to

816
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 2: any organizations. His uncle was later shocked, saying that in

817
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 2: all the years they lived together, he never heard just

818
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 2: set me say anything about politics. So he goes to Patterson.

819
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,479
Speaker 2: He moves in with his uncle, and for a little

820
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 2: while he works at a silk factory with his uncle,

821
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 2: and then two months later he's laid off. And he's

822
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 2: always sick, right, it's too hot in the factory, it's

823
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 2: too cold outside. He started doing masonry work the local

824
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 2: Masonry Union. He doesn't like unions. He's a member of

825
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 2: the union, but he doesn't like him. The local Masonry

826
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 2: Union is associated with the AFL, the American Federation of Labor,

827
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 2: who are pretty mid at this point.

828
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 3: Let's just say I remember correctly they were the bad

829
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 3: guys in the previous episode. Yeah I did.

830
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, so totally. So they show up and are like, look,

831
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 2: and actually any union would do this. They show up

832
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:03,439
Speaker 2: and are like, look, you got to join the union

833
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 2: and you can't work as a stonemason around here. And

834
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 2: he's like, well, I have ten bucks and they're like,

835
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 2: all right, we're going to lend you the ten bucks

836
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 2: and then you have to pay us back. Just honestly, fine,

837
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 2: he's getting more money because it's union and whatever. Then

838
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 2: they're like, oh, but you can't get your card until

839
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,320
Speaker 2: you prove that you have started your paperwork to apply

840
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 2: for American citizenship.

841
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:27,280
Speaker 3: Well hey, now, yeah, why.

842
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:30,360
Speaker 2: Because they're biggots. I don't know, those are nativist assholes.

843
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 2: So this is actually why he ends up in an

844
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 2: American citizen Wow. He uh, but it takes him six

845
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 2: years to get but he's allowed to work as long

846
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 2: as he's proving that he's in the process of it, that.

847
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 3: He's like working on it.

848
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. And so then for a while in the nineteen twenties,

849
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,439
Speaker 2: he worked. That was his life. He was quite good

850
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,399
Speaker 2: at what he did, but he was constantly sicken in pain.

851
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 2: He ran crews and hired workers. He started saving money.

852
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 2: He's like kind of pulling off middle class brick laying

853
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 2: person and kind of it seems.

854
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 3: Like sounds a little bit like he's bootstrapping it.

855
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, though not as much as the guy he's

856
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:09,879
Speaker 2: got to kill, but yeah, and he starts saving up money.

857
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 2: When he died, there was like two or three thousand

858
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 2: dollars in his bank account, and he had sent two

859
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 2: or three thousand dollars back to his father. Three thousand

860
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 2: dollars is seventy thousand dollars. Now, wow, I don't know

861
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:25,919
Speaker 2: a lot of people with seventy thousand dollars in savings,

862
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, But it's interesting because he's still a

863
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:34,320
Speaker 2: working person, right, Like he knows he is not the

864
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 2: rich capitalist, you know. Yeah, and he's just suffering. And

865
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 2: so all he does is like work and suffer. That's

866
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 2: like all he does. In nineteen twenty six, he checked

867
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:46,800
Speaker 2: into the hospital because of shooting pains in his stomach

868
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:51,800
Speaker 2: and the doctor didn't find anything wrong, according to medical records.

869
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,280
Speaker 2: Like literally the doctor was like, I don't know it's wrong,

870
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 2: but then told Giuseppe, you have a cute appendicitist and

871
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:04,280
Speaker 2: we're going to take it. Oh, because the doctor decided

872
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 2: to take out his appendix just because it might work,

873
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 2: you know, like we need to rule it out, you know.

874
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 3: I feel like back then they were like, yeah, I

875
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 3: got something wrong from the chest downwards, we'll take out

876
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 3: your appendix. Got something wrong from the chest upwards, We'll

877
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 3: take out your tonsils. Those are the two things we

878
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 3: know how to do, and we'll do them to everybody.

879
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 1: I feel like they should teach people where their appendix

880
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 1: is in like grade school.

881
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 2: So they can guard it.

882
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 3: Fight off the doctors.

883
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: No, just because just because it's like I can't I

884
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:39,839
Speaker 1: can't even count them any times where it's like, well,

885
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 1: where does it hurt? I want to make sure it's

886
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: not your appendix, and somebody will point and then and

887
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 1: then you'll realize they don't know where their appendix is to.

888
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 3: Their elbow, Zasha, I think it's my appendix.

889
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 1: People should probably know where their appendix is.

890
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 2: Just that be new where his was. It was on

891
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 2: a plate next to him because the and there was

892
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 2: nothing wrong with it, and the doctor was like, oh,

893
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,800
Speaker 2: it looks like it's healthy. For some odd reason, JOSEPPI

894
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 2: was really bitter about this.

895
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, somebody cut out a part of him for no reason.

896
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:12,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd be mad.

897
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 3: I would be like, I wasn't using that, but I

898
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 3: might have.

899
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't actually know what an appendix does. Lower

900
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 2: lower right No one tell me. Wait, you all can

901
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 2: tell me. I don't want any Internet stranger to tell

902
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 2: me what does it do?

903
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 5: Oh?

904
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 1: What does it do? I think you said, where is it?

905
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:30,320
Speaker 1: Low kated? I was like your lower right side, magpie.

906
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 2: I used to have so much like anxiety pain that

907
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 2: I kind of almost didn't want to know where these

908
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 2: things were. Because now it's fine because I got through

909
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 2: that part of my life. But I was like, so

910
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 2: good at having phantom pain everywhere.

911
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,280
Speaker 1: It's attached to your intestin and it helps with digestion.

912
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 1: Is like the short version.

913
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 3: Okay, It's thought to have played a greater role in

914
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 3: digestion at an earlier stage of human evolution.

915
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 2: Correct, Oh, interesting, okay, And so he's living this life,

916
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:04,360
Speaker 2: it's he's not particularly happy. He talks in his autobiography

917
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 2: about how he spent all of his money super freely

918
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 2: and he never saved any money, and everyone thought he

919
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 2: was rich because of how he spent money. He spent

920
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 2: all of his money on girls and such. I think

921
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:17,879
Speaker 2: he hired sex workers a lot. And I also had

922
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 2: the implication he would like go on dates and then

923
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 2: like blow a lot of money on whoever he went

924
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 2: on a date with. But all of his friends, well,

925
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 2: he claims he doesn't have any friends. He claims he

926
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 2: had only acquaintances. All the people who knew him were

927
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:32,280
Speaker 2: like that man was stingy.

928
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 3: Oh, that's so funny.

929
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 2: So that's the thing he lied about.

930
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 3: Like, I like when people's self conception is like so

931
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 3: far off base from like you, like, you know, you

932
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 3: know anybody who's like, oh, I'm the chillest person, I'm

933
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 3: so chill, and you're like you were the most dramatic

934
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 3: I know. Is like, honestly, most people who describe themselves

935
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 3: as chill actually and people are like, oh, I hate drama.

936
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 3: It's like all you do is drama. And I love

937
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 3: that he was out there being like, oh, I'm a

938
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 3: lavish spend thrift just throwing money around, and everybody else's like,

939
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,320
Speaker 3: my dude has not had a new pair of socks

940
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:10,240
Speaker 3: in six years.

941
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:14,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, he's he's always moving into the cheapest possible places.

942
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 2: But he also, like when he's arrested, he was like

943
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 2: living into like the cheapest possible boarding house he possibly could,

944
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 2: and he had a really cheap suitcase full of really

945
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 2: nice clothes.

946
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 3: Oh good, Yeah, No, that's like what's important though. It's

947
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,840
Speaker 3: better to have nice clothes and a cheap suitcase and

948
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 3: bad clothes and an expensive suitcase.

949
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 2: No, it's a good point, sensible, and I think it's

950
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 2: I think that the end of the day. The thing

951
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 2: about it is that he just isn't seeing himself the

952
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,840
Speaker 2: way that others people see him, and so he's probably

953
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,280
Speaker 2: like constantly mad at himself about not saying, oh my godness,

954
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 2: that's probably yelling at him about not sending enough money home.

955
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,839
Speaker 3: Basically, yeah, yeah, he's probably brought up to think any

956
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 3: money he spends on himself is like money wasted, right.

957
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, that that actually makes the most sense, and he

958
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 2: seems to be getting a fair amount of money. He

959
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 2: does like a fair amount of like big jobs or whatever. Again,

960
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,719
Speaker 2: not rich, and I was probably exaggero when it called

961
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 2: him middle class, but like working class union labor. You know,

962
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 2: he didn't take much joy in life. He mostly suffered.

963
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 2: He spent most of his time alone, suffering. He had

964
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 2: a few acquaintances. He went to his death claiming he

965
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 2: had no friends. He basically ate onion soup and did

966
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 2: not drink and did not smoke, and laid bricks and suffered.

967
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 2: In nineteen twenty nine, the economy collapsed and he was

968
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 2: mostly out of work. He started traveling, apparently just to wander,

969
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 2: probably not coordinating with an international conspiracy of anarchists to

970
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 2: kill world leaders. Legitimately probably not that. Just I'm like

971
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 2: ninety five percent sure about that, you know, like usually

972
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 2: you're one hundred percent on that?

973
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 1: Is it?

974
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 3: Like you want to you want to leave room for

975
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,320
Speaker 3: the possibility, because that would be a pretty cool story.

976
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't want to claim him. I usually

977
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 2: want to claim people. But like, like I'm coming across

978
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:07,279
Speaker 2: of anything Gus like too too soft an FDR of

979
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 2: this episode, But like I have.

980
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 3: Noticed that this has been like a weirdly pro FDR vibe.

981
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 2: The world would have been so much worse if he

982
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:18,320
Speaker 2: had shot FDR. Nazis might have taken over the world,

983
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, yeah, Like I'm not a very big man,

984
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 2: a history kind of girl, and like maybe whoever else

985
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 2: was there would have done it instead. Maybe it would

986
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 2: have been better, but like my money is on the

987
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 2: world would have been a lot worse if he had

988
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 2: done this. I don't know, And it wasn't a it

989
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:42,720
Speaker 2: was not a strategic decision, I believe, So I don't

990
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 2: want to claim him that the ninety certain that he's

991
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 2: not working with international anarchistic conspiracy is just around. Like

992
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 2: there are enough people who said, yeah he was. There

993
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:55,359
Speaker 2: are enough people who are like, oh, we think he

994
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 2: was involved in the following plots and blah blah blah,

995
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 2: which almost certainly are nonsense, right, But like there's just

996
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,760
Speaker 2: kind of a like, here's this brick layer from Italy

997
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 2: in Paterson, New Jersey who suddenly goes around and starts

998
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 2: like traveling around to San Diego and Cuba and Mexico,

999
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 2: and like he's probably just off to go wander because

1000
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 2: he wants to.

1001
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, he has some disposable income and nobody's building new houses.

1002
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is almost certainly what is happening. And he

1003
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 2: likes places with warmer weather.

1004
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 3: I mean, every time there was a assassination by an

1005
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 3: anarchist back in those days when anarchists were doing a

1006
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:39,759
Speaker 3: lot of a lot more assassinations, the media narrative and

1007
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 3: sort of the popular native was like, oh, they must

1008
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 3: be connected with a big anarchist conspiracy, and like they

1009
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 3: usually were just some guy who was an anarchist and

1010
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 3: who did it. Like to the extent that there were conspiracies,

1011
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 3: they were usually very small. They were not like a thing,

1012
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 3: because when you plan an assassination or any kind of

1013
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 3: big illegal action, the more people who know about it,

1014
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:02,840
Speaker 3: the less likely you are to be able to do

1015
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 3: it successfully.

1016
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 2: But I think overall, I think that's true. But like

1017
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 2: in the people trying to Kill Mussolini episodes, these were

1018
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 2: like conspiracies crossing ideological and state lines amongst like hundreds

1019
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 2: of people, and sometimes that's why they fell apart. And

1020
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 2: as you can compare to a lot of the people

1021
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:24,840
Speaker 2: the anarchists who pulled off some other assassinations, they would

1022
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 2: do things like drop out of their friend group and

1023
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 2: then stop making friends with anyone and stuff like that,

1024
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:32,800
Speaker 2: and start keeping everyone away for the other people's safety.

1025
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,719
Speaker 2: So that's like where it gets I don't know whatever.

1026
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 3: Anyway, unless they really on gosh, because he was just

1027
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 3: bad at making friends in the first place.

1028
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 2: He's a little bit closer to a show gosh. We'll

1029
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 2: talk about that. I think we should talk about him

1030
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:45,480
Speaker 2: in sho gosh a little bit once we get to

1031
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 2: the actual thing. Yeah, we're getting ahead of ourselves again,

1032
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:50,799
Speaker 2: all right, And now I want to say negative things

1033
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 2: about our protagonist. Well, first, he wrote kind of sweetly

1034
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 2: about this time that he was always chasing better weather

1035
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 2: or the his condition might improve, and he would do

1036
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 2: things like he would write about like, oh, I met

1037
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 2: this like cute mother on a train and she was

1038
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 2: nice to me and I was happy for a while.

1039
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 2: And then he would also talk about like and then

1040
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:12,920
Speaker 2: I shacked up with a seventeen year old who I

1041
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:14,600
Speaker 2: think is a sex worker in New Orleans and then

1042
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 2: let him let her live at his place and they

1043
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 2: were dating for a while and then he left and

1044
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 2: she was fine with it. Hmmm. And then he probably

1045
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 2: tried to pressure his landlord's fifteen year old daughter into

1046
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 2: marry him, and she had to tell him now multiple times.

1047
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 1: Hmmm.

1048
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 2: He would have been around thirty at that point.

1049
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1050
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 3: The number of times a thirty year old should ask

1051
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 3: a fifteen year old to marry him is zero.

1052
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 2: Roughly, yeah, no, not roughly, yeah, just exactly, it's very

1053
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:42,200
Speaker 2: exact number. And another point, he's talking about how he

1054
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 2: was going to marry this sixteen year old who did

1055
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:48,000
Speaker 2: want to marry him, but then he decided not to

1056
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:50,960
Speaker 2: because she was pregnant with someone else's kid and she

1057
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 2: was just doing it to like get the kid taken

1058
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:55,359
Speaker 2: care of. And he was like, I got to get

1059
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 2: out of here's.

1060
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 3: It's becoming a trend. It is now a trend of

1061
00:52:59,239 --> 00:52:59,759
Speaker 3: this day.

1062
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 2: It started off with a nice mother and that was nice.

1063
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 2: But yep, but yep, hmmm, yeah, don't like this. He

1064
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:09,840
Speaker 2: didn't really have any like great loves or anything like

1065
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 2: that in his life. He wandered. He sometimes worked. Some

1066
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:16,320
Speaker 2: reports say that he would rabble rouse like giving speeches

1067
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:18,759
Speaker 2: anti government speeches during lunch breaks at work, and other

1068
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 2: people are like that did not happen. One time, he

1069
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 2: may or may not have heckled a street preacher for

1070
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 2: telling the crowd. They shouldn't blame the government for their problems.

1071
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 3: I mean that sounds like a shitty street preacher. You

1072
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 3: should heckle that guy.

1073
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, totally, No, I'm fully in favor of him

1074
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:37,400
Speaker 2: rabble rousing and uh, you know, heckling that street preacher.

1075
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 2: But I don't know, there's so much. He was very briefly,

1076
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 2: very famous, and everyone wanted to have theories about him

1077
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:48,239
Speaker 2: and claimed interactions with him, and most people were lying.

1078
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 3: Oh, that's so interesting, Like yeah, because he was he

1079
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:55,399
Speaker 3: spent time as like just a wandering, you know, sort

1080
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:58,360
Speaker 3: of drifter guy, which means that when he became famous,

1081
00:53:58,360 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 3: I bet a lot of people were like, I want

1082
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 3: if that weird angry Italian I met five years ago?

1083
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:05,440
Speaker 3: Is this weird angry Italian?

1084
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 2: Yeah? Totally.

1085
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:09,399
Speaker 3: You know, I have remembering some guy you saw get

1086
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:11,880
Speaker 3: into a fight with a preacher like that was probably

1087
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,839
Speaker 3: the guy. Then you tell people that for the rest

1088
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 3: of your life to you know, get people to think

1089
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 3: you're interesting.

1090
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:22,759
Speaker 2: Totally. In nineteen thirty two, he left Patterson, New Jersey

1091
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 2: for the last time. He wound up in Miami for

1092
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:29,800
Speaker 2: the weather. Miami is a newer city than you might think,

1093
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 2: do you know this.

1094
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:35,400
Speaker 3: I mean, I know that it like had that like

1095
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 3: for a long time. People like Americans were like, Florida,

1096
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 3: you can't build anything in Florida. It's all gross swamps

1097
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 3: and stuff. And then in like the twenties they were like,

1098
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 3: oh my god, actually Florida.

1099
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:48,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's basically Yeah. In eighteen ninety six, Miami was

1100
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 2: incorporated with a population of three hundred people, and pretty

1101
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:54,839
Speaker 2: soon people will realize that it was a nice place

1102
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:56,800
Speaker 2: to bring tourists and a nice place to do crime.

1103
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:00,120
Speaker 2: So it became a tourist and crime town, which I

1104
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 2: wonder the impression that has not changed from but I

1105
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 2: don't know.

1106
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,760
Speaker 3: I think it's less involved in the illegal liquor trade

1107
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 3: now than it was back then.

1108
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:11,120
Speaker 2: But yeah, fair enough. Yeah, it was a kind of

1109
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:14,160
Speaker 2: a mafia place as best I can tell, tourism, crime,

1110
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:18,840
Speaker 2: and the fucking kkk oh. In the nineteen twenties and thirties,

1111
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 2: Miami had the kkk Hella present. The WASP establishment was

1112
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 2: happy to have clansmen enforcing segregation and marching and official

1113
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 2: parades and guarding the city against Bolsheviks and black people

1114
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:35,759
Speaker 2: and Catholics and other such terrible monsters. The mafia was

1115
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,279
Speaker 2: reasonably important in the city too. Cops that tried to

1116
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 2: fight corruption and organized crime were run out of their

1117
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:42,400
Speaker 2: jobs soon enough. Like there's like a I think a

1118
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:44,280
Speaker 2: sheriff who was like, all right, well we should probably

1119
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:45,759
Speaker 2: do some about this organized crime. And he's like, wait,

1120
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 2: why don't I have a job anymore? What happened? I

1121
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 2: don't understand.

1122
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:50,800
Speaker 3: It's like, I don't think you get it. The crime

1123
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:53,840
Speaker 3: is organized, the call is from inside the house.

1124
00:55:54,320 --> 00:56:00,560
Speaker 2: But that's where I'm at. By nineteen thirty, when our

1125
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:03,319
Speaker 2: story hits his climax, Miami had a population of one

1126
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:05,320
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty thousand, which is about a third of

1127
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 2: its current size, but it saw a million tourists a year.

1128
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:12,520
Speaker 2: And this was the city where the president elect, Franklin

1129
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:15,439
Speaker 2: eleanor Roosevelt, He's middle name I think I got wrong

1130
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:19,400
Speaker 2: last time, decided to go in vacation in February nineteen

1131
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:21,359
Speaker 2: thirty three. We should just make up new middle names

1132
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:22,799
Speaker 2: for him. I should. I should try and like, come

1133
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:24,880
Speaker 2: save some of my anarchy cred.

1134
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 3: By making fun of by getting his name wrong.

1135
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, decided to go on vacation there in nineteen

1136
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:35,720
Speaker 2: thirty three, Franklin David Roosevelt and in what was almost

1137
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 2: a rather ill fated decision but actually kind of turned

1138
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:40,319
Speaker 2: out fine but not well for him, but not for

1139
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:43,759
Speaker 2: the mayor of Chicago. Basically, before becoming president, he was like,

1140
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:45,719
Speaker 2: all I'm gonna go fishing for a while. We got

1141
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 2: a boat and we went fishing for a while. About

1142
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:49,360
Speaker 2: ten days he was like, all right, I'm going to

1143
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 2: do some speeches while I'm in Florida, and the city

1144
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 2: of Miami wanted to honor the president elect with parades

1145
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:58,000
Speaker 2: and fanfare. Fdr agreed to give a very short, impromptu speech.

1146
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:00,600
Speaker 2: The city was making a way bigger deal out of

1147
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 2: this than he was.

1148
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 3: Basically, he was like, I'm just trying to be on vacation.

1149
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. Basically he's like, look, I'm about to take the

1150
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 2: most stressful job. Like, can I just go catch some

1151
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 2: fish and talk about people's weight anyway. We'll talk about

1152
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 2: how it was weird obsession on people's weight later, and

1153
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 2: I don't know it somehow came up multiple times in

1154
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 2: this story that he is weird about people's weight. For

1155
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:27,320
Speaker 2: days ahead of time, newspapers published all the details of

1156
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 2: his schedule, and the city turned out in massive numbers

1157
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 2: to see him. It was the largest crowd in the

1158
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 2: city's history. At that point. Twenty five thousand people were there.

1159
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 2: People came from all over, especially from all over Florida.

1160
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:42,920
Speaker 2: FDR had won in a landslide four hundred and seventy

1161
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 2: two to the incumbent, Herbert Hoover's fifty nine. And this

1162
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:50,360
Speaker 2: is partly because if you have a recession on your watch,

1163
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:53,320
Speaker 2: you're gonna lose. And if you have a great recession

1164
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 2: on your watch, you're gonna lose greatly.

1165
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 3: If there are homeless encampments in every major city referred

1166
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:04,600
Speaker 3: to as Hooverville's, you're really gonna lose.

1167
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:10,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. Franklin Dwight Roosevelt was a popular man, but

1168
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 2: not to everyone, not too Miriam, not to Giseepi. The

1169
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 2: Zangaraji Seppi saw those newspapers and was like, all right,

1170
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 2: time to buy a gun, except there's arguments about the order.

1171
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:26,440
Speaker 2: Here is not a little mystery. Again, it's like probably nothing,

1172
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 2: but like he might have bought the gun before he

1173
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:32,080
Speaker 2: saw the newspapers, which would have been not because we

1174
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 2: know where he bought the gun. So it wasn't like

1175
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:35,520
Speaker 2: he just had a gun, like, but he was like, all,

1176
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go buy a gun. And he might have

1177
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:39,360
Speaker 2: bought it before he saw the newspaper, so he probably

1178
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:42,040
Speaker 2: bought it after whatever. Anyway, get you get the true crime.

1179
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:44,840
Speaker 3: Is there anything? Is there anything he might have been

1180
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 3: interested in having a gun for that we can think of?

1181
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 3: Besides this, was he just maybe like worried about the

1182
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 3: about all the klansmen around or something.

1183
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 2: I think the implication would be that he would like

1184
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:01,120
Speaker 2: have found out some other way the president was coming.

1185
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 2: But I don't know. But also like I mean, he

1186
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 2: wanted to die like so I don't know, but he

1187
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:13,240
Speaker 2: probably saw the newspapers and then he went and bought

1188
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 2: a five shot revolver chambered in thirty two. He bought

1189
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 2: it and ten bullets for eight dollars, which is around

1190
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:22,040
Speaker 2: two hundred dollars to day, which is a cheap gun.

1191
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:25,439
Speaker 2: It was short barreled. It was basically like a self

1192
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 2: defense or crime gun equivalent of a Saturday night special,

1193
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 2: a gun for getting up to no good. To JOSEPPI,

1194
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:35,280
Speaker 2: of course it was a crime gun. He wanted to

1195
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 2: commit a crime with it. As for what he did

1196
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:40,720
Speaker 2: with it, you'll have to wait until when. No, you

1197
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:41,560
Speaker 2: already know what he did.

1198
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 3: We mentioned it.

1199
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:47,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, he tried to kill Franklin Douglas Roosevelt

1200
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 2: and he did kill the mayor of Chicago. But the

1201
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:52,440
Speaker 2: story is really good and it's gonna get even better

1202
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 2: on Wednesday. Done, I know. But first you want any

1203
00:59:58,360 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 2: other podcasts or something you want to plug?

1204
01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:05,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I am on this published in this publishing collective

1205
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:09,480
Speaker 3: and podcasting network called Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness. We

1206
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:11,800
Speaker 3: actually have this really cool thing. We're about to publish

1207
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 3: this book. We're doing a Kickstarter for it that will

1208
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 3: launch in March. It's by Margaret Killjoy. Ever heard of her?

1209
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:23,000
Speaker 2: I have not, Nope, what a pretentious name.

1210
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:27,080
Speaker 1: Kill Joy anyway, sounds like somebody who's not filled a

1211
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 1: lot of hope.

1212
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:32,600
Speaker 3: It's a really good book. People are gonna like it,

1213
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:35,840
Speaker 3: and they if they want to find out more about

1214
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 3: it as it as it nears publication, they should check

1215
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 3: out our kickstarter, which they can find by googling or

1216
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:47,160
Speaker 3: using a different search engine to find. The Eternal Choir

1217
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:48,040
Speaker 3: Holds Every.

1218
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:50,360
Speaker 2: Voice, The Immortal Choir, Immortal Choir.

1219
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:54,320
Speaker 3: Jesus, I'm the editor. I should know that the Immortal

1220
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 3: choir holds every voice.

1221
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 2: No one can remember my book titles. That's my special power.

1222
01:00:58,320 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 3: No, it's a really good title.

1223
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:00,240
Speaker 1: I know.

1224
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:03,000
Speaker 2: I write incredible titles that don't stay in people's minds.

1225
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:05,960
Speaker 3: I've said it correctly every other time I've said it.

1226
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:06,560
Speaker 2: It's just I.

1227
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:10,479
Speaker 3: Wasn't being recorded at the time. The Immortal Choir holds

1228
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 3: every voice. Check it out. Our cover art is gorgeous.

1229
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:17,440
Speaker 3: Follow Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness on Blue Sky or Instagram.

1230
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 3: Don't follow us on Twitter. Listen to our podcasts. You

1231
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 3: know you can hear more of Margaret and also me

1232
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 3: and our other co hosts, and also cool people that

1233
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:28,760
Speaker 3: we interview who do cool stuff.

1234
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 2: Even Yeah, Sophie, you got anything you want to plug

1235
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 2: because Miriam did mine apparently, Thank you, Miriam.

1236
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 1: Listen to Malli Conger's Weird Little Guys. It's yeah, so good.

1237
01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:41,160
Speaker 2: It's so good.

1238
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:45,360
Speaker 1: It's so good. Mollie's so talented. Molly can find out

1239
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:53,400
Speaker 1: information like nobody I've ever known. It's just Molly's. Molly's Mollie.

1240
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:54,760
Speaker 1: I don't even know how to.

1241
01:01:56,240 --> 01:02:01,400
Speaker 3: She. She will process so much boring information to find

1242
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:04,760
Speaker 3: amazing stories hidden in them, you know, like, yeah, like

1243
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 3: it doesn't matter how many like city council meetings, or like,

1244
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:13,080
Speaker 3: I don't know, fucking old newspaper article like she will find.

1245
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:17,440
Speaker 1: It sometimes will be like, how's it going? And then

1246
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:20,760
Speaker 1: Mollie will like list off the craziest things you've ever

1247
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:24,640
Speaker 1: heard in your entire life. I've been reading insert insane

1248
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 1: thing here for the last eight hours, but I found

1249
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:29,880
Speaker 1: out this one thing.

1250
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:35,120
Speaker 2: You're like, Molly, are you okay?

1251
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 1: So you know, support Molly in her endeavor to read

1252
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:41,560
Speaker 1: the strangest things on the internet.

1253
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:45,720
Speaker 2: I wholly endorse and I'll talk to you all on Wednesday.

1254
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 3: Babe.

1255
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:54,800
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1256
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:57,919
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on cool Zone Media,

1257
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:00,960
Speaker 1: visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check

1258
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:04,320
Speaker 1: us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1259
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:09,680
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. M