1 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: On this episode of News World. One of my all 2 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: time favorite authors is Bernard Cornwell. His best selling novels 3 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: of historical fiction have kept me entertained and educated for years. 4 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: The Wall three Journal calls in quote, the most prolific 5 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 1: and successful historical novelist in the world today, and that 6 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:31,479 Speaker 1: is quite complent. Now he's joined me today to discuss 7 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: his latest book, Sharp Storm, set near eighteen thirteen on 8 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: a battlefield in France. I've read it. I highly recommend it, 9 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: but I'm not going to let him get away. It's 10 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: just talking about that Chwis. He's such an interesting person 11 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: and his background is so cool. Bernard, thank you so 12 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: much much for joining me. 13 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 2: Well, thank you for inviting me. 14 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:09,320 Speaker 1: You said your writing career started almost by accident. Tell 15 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: us about that, because it's kind of amazing that you 16 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 1: are this successful by accident. 17 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 2: Well, it was an accident. I think I always wanted 18 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 2: to write novels, but many many people have that wish 19 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 2: and I really couldn't see it happening. And I had 20 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 2: a perfectly good job. I was a producer for BBC 21 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 2: Television working in Northern Ireland, and purely by chance, I 22 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 2: met an American, a woman who I saw getting out 23 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 2: of an elevator in Edinburgh, and I looked at my 24 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 2: reporter and said, I'm going to marry that one. But 25 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 2: it took me eighteen months, and Judy, for very good reasons, 26 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 2: family reasons, couldn't live in Britain. So I said, well, 27 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 2: I'll have to go to America. When I got to 28 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 2: the United States, I found it was quite difficult to 29 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 2: get a work permit. They were not giving them away. 30 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: So I said to her, don't worry, darling, I'll write 31 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 2: a book. And that was forty five years ago. I'm 32 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 2: now an American citizen, thankfully, and I've been writing books 33 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 2: ever since. And we're still married. 34 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: What is it you saw in that instant the legend 35 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,239 Speaker 1: decide that you had to marry her. 36 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure she'd be mad at me for saying it, 37 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 2: but very good legs. 38 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: If it's the truth, You and I both believe that 39 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 1: that's a useful thing to start with. 40 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 2: We're in agreements on that, mister speaker. 41 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: Obviously, beyond the legs, there was a lot that was 42 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: pretty endurable of you guys are still hanging out together 43 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:35,639 Speaker 1: this many years later. 44 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:37,519 Speaker 2: Oh, we're still hanging out together. 45 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: Yes, I have forgotten. I should know this. What was 46 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 1: your first novel? 47 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 2: The first novel was called Sharp's Eagle, which was set 48 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 2: in eighteen o eight and the Battle of Talavera. And 49 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 2: I think there are now twenty five Sharp novels. I 50 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 2: think that's the right number, which follow him now from 51 00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,959 Speaker 2: his early career in India Writes through to the Back 52 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 2: of Waterloo. 53 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 1: I love the early books when he's in India. And 54 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: I'm a little surprised that you kind of start not 55 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 1: quite in the middle, but almost in the middle. So 56 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: how did that come to him? What is there that 57 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: head you sitting around New Jersey going gee, I think 58 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: I'll write about Taliberra Well. 59 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 2: I think I'd always known what book I wanted to write. 60 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 2: I've often thought that writing itself is very easy. Writing 61 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 2: well is difficult, but knowing what to write about is 62 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 2: the most difficult thing of all. And as I'm sure 63 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 2: you know, there were those great novels by CS Forester 64 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 2: about Hornblower, and it always amazed me that there were 65 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 2: several guys writing about the British Navy in its fight 66 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 2: against Napodium, but nobody was doing the same for the army. 67 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 2: And I thought that was a gap on the bookshelf. 68 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 2: So for years I looked for books that told the 69 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 2: story of Wellington's army, and I couldn't find them. And 70 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 2: eventually this little light went off in my head, and 71 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 2: I thought, what if nobody else is doing it, why 72 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 2: don't you do it? And That's what I've been doing 73 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 2: for forty five years now. 74 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: Well, I have to tell you, by the way, Jim 75 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: mattis the Marine Force Star General Secretary of Defense. We 76 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: were at dinner one night and he said he had 77 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: never understood Waterloo until he read your version, which I 78 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 1: thought was quite a compliment. 79 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 2: It's a huge compliment. I shall treasure it. 80 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: I had spent a lot of time. Right after I 81 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 1: won the speakership. I spent several months studying Wellington because 82 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 1: I thought the Peninsular campaign of fighting out numbered and 83 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: winning was probably the closest thing to my speakership, and 84 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: I wanted to learn from Wellington. So I read a 85 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: lot of biographies and things, and he is astonishing. But 86 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 1: then you bring both the war and you bring sharp 87 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: of course, but you also bring Wellington to life in 88 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 1: a way that a lot of people find very difficult. 89 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 2: Well he was I think He was a difficult man. 90 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 2: He once said it himself. I have no small talk, 91 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 2: and he was awkward, certainly in conversation. He was quite cold. 92 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 2: In fact. I think he was a very emotional man, 93 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 2: but he hid his emotions very well. And he was, 94 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 2: of course quite brilliant. He'd served in every rank in 95 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: the army, from lieutenant upwards. He understood the processes of fighting, 96 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 2: and he especially understood logistics. I feel I know him 97 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 2: remarkably well because I've been writing about him for so long. 98 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 2: I also suspect he would dislike me intensely. He once 99 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 2: said he could not bear authors, and he refused to 100 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 2: talk to authors. I mean after the Battle of Waterloo. 101 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 2: In his long career, he was often questioned about it, 102 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 2: especially about the Waterloo campaign, and he refused to talk 103 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 2: about it. The only way to get him to open 104 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 2: up was to present him with a very young, beautiful woman, 105 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,919 Speaker 2: and then he would talk. He was very susceptible to women, 106 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 2: which I like about him. And the best stories about 107 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 2: Wellington all come from what you told other women. 108 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: You remind me by the way Churchill, as a very 109 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: impetuous and arrogant young man, decides to write The River 110 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: War about the Battle of Omdermen in the book praises Kitchener, 111 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: who is the general in charge of the whole campaign. 112 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: Kitchener's totally pissed off at him, because Kitchener's attitude is, 113 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: who are you as a junior officer? Whether you tell 114 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: me you like what I did or you don't like 115 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: what I did, you have no right to have an opinion. 116 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: I think that he and Wellington would probably have agreed 117 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: on that. 118 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,679 Speaker 2: I'm sure they would have agreed absolutely. Yes. 119 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 1: As you know, not only am I a huge fan 120 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: of what you have done for Wellington and for Sharp, 121 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: but I am an even bigger fan for what you 122 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: have done for Ughtred and for the Last Kingdom. What 123 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: I think is probably the best explanation of Alfred that 124 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: I have ever seen, capturing the strangely weak and yet 125 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:07,359 Speaker 1: very strong person who becomes the foundation for what they 126 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: later on will call England. You've done some secondary books, 127 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: but you have these two series that are astonishing. How 128 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: do you manage to juggle two totally different storylines, two 129 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: totally different eras, and yet both of them come off 130 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: I think just as remarkably good. 131 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 2: Well, I suppose the first storyline is Sharp and the 132 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 2: Napoleonic Wars. And I've been an enthusiast for looking at 133 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 2: the Napoleonic Wars ever since I was a kid. Ughtred 134 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 2: and the Saxon stories came much later, and that was 135 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 2: really because I think living in America, and I've become 136 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 2: very fond of America, and like all Americans, I celebrate 137 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 2: July the fourth, and I realized that I had a 138 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 2: very very idea where the United States came from. It's 139 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 2: birth moment, if you like. And then I thought, well, 140 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 2: I know nothing about where England came from. I mean, 141 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 2: England doesn't have a birth moment. There's no celebration in 142 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 2: England of a day to celebrate England itself. And although 143 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 2: I had a very good education in Britain, it didn't 144 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 2: cover that. So I set out to discover it for myself. 145 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 2: And that's really the story of Ughtred. Ughtred, if you like, 146 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 2: parallels the creation of England. And in July next year 147 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 2: we'll celebrate America's two hundred and fiftieth birthday. England's birthday, 148 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,199 Speaker 2: I suppose, is the year nine three seven, at a 149 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 2: terrible battle called the Battle of Brunenburgh. We don't really 150 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 2: know too much about what happened there. But that was 151 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 2: the birth moment at this battle, and maybe I'll celebrate 152 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 2: it privately next October. I'd have to subtract nine three 153 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 2: seven from twenty twenty six, and I can't do that 154 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 2: in my head. I'll leave that to cleverer people. 155 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 1: In that particular battle, which, as you point out, we 156 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: have only very limited archaeological knowledge, but you have a 157 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: clear sense that the English side, by keeping part of 158 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: its forces in reserve and bringing them in from the 159 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: flank at the right moment, were decisive and shattering the 160 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: Allied armies that were opposed to England. Is that a 161 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: novelistic adventure or is there some reason to believe it 162 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: may have happened like that? 163 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 2: No reason to believe it at all. I had to 164 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 2: make it up. For hundreds of years, over a thousand years, 165 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 2: nobody even knew where the battle was fought. Archaeologists discovered 166 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 2: that about five years ago. One of the joys of 167 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 2: being an historical novelist is you can make things up. 168 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 2: I can't make up anything about the Battle of Waterloo. 169 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 2: It's too well recorded. I mean, I can't invent a 170 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 2: southern flank attack, which in fact was what Wellington was 171 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 2: most worried about. But when it came to Brunenburgh, other 172 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 2: than the fact that the two armies met and that 173 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 2: it was a disaster for the enemy, we don't know 174 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 2: anything really, so I just make it up as I 175 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 2: go along. 176 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: When you think about Wellington and his capacity to do 177 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: things in the whole nature of the British Army of 178 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: that period, how much do you think would Wellington learn 179 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:46,679 Speaker 1: fighting in India shaped and equipped him to operate in 180 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: a backward region like Portugal. 181 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 2: I think he learned confidence. I think that was the 182 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 2: main thing. At the huge Battle of Essay, which was 183 00:10:56,280 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 2: his biggest victory in India, he took huge risks and 184 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 2: those risks paid off. I mean he was often reviled 185 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 2: by the French as merely a defensive general, and because 186 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,839 Speaker 2: he was a brilliant defensive general, he proved that at Waterloo. 187 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,959 Speaker 2: But he was also capable of very very bold attacks, 188 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 2: and his attack at a Say was particularly brave and bold. 189 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 2: He was outnumbered again, but he outflanked the enemy and 190 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 2: he destroyed the enemy. And I think he came away 191 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 2: from India convinced that he could actually operate as a 192 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 2: commander of an army, and that has indeed proved true. 193 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 2: But much later in his life he was asked once 194 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 2: again by a woman, what are you most proud of 195 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 2: in your career? And he answered with one word, assay, 196 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 2: which is a story I tell in Sharp's Triumph. And 197 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 2: he was simply proud of it because it was a 198 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 2: huge risk and enormous risk, and it paid off. And 199 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,839 Speaker 2: he proved it again at battles like Salamanca, where again 200 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,079 Speaker 2: he was an offensive battle, but it was a brilliant 201 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 2: battle in many ways. People call it Salamanca Wellington's masterpiece, 202 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:07,439 Speaker 2: And as much as a horrible slaughter like Salamanca can 203 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 2: be a masterpiece, it was a masterpiece of generalship. So 204 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 2: I think what he learned in India is to take 205 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 2: heed of his own impulses, to follow them, and to 206 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 2: have confidence in them. 207 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: If I remember Correickly, Salamanca is the battle where he's 208 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: watching the battlefield eating a chicken leg and suddenly says, 209 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: the French general has made a huge mistake, throws away 210 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: the chicken leg and goes out of the battle. 211 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 2: That's exactly right. He's watching the French from a hilltop. 212 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 2: He sees them making this mistake, which is basically marching 213 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 2: far off to his right and there left, and he 214 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 2: says to his friend Aliva, the Spanish liaison officer Marmont apadu, 215 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 2: Marmont is lost. He then gallops three miles to his 216 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 2: right flank and orders the attack by the third division, 217 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 2: which rolls the French up and again it was risky. 218 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,319 Speaker 2: In many ways, it's astonishing, but it was incredibly effective. 219 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: I never thought much about coming out of the peninsula 220 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: and into southern France. But in fact, as you may 221 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 1: clear in several of your novels, there was a big 222 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,719 Speaker 1: deal and was actually a very real campaign in its 223 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: own right. 224 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 2: It was. And when Wellington crossed the Pyrenees and marches 225 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 2: into France, he is the only enemy army actually on 226 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 2: French soil, and Napoleon wanted to get rid of him, 227 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 2: so he sent big reinforcements to Marshall Sioux, who was 228 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 2: his opponent there. And it was a very difficult campaign 229 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 2: for Wellington because he's hedged in by rivers and faced 230 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 2: with an enormous fortress city, the city of Bayonne, And 231 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 2: in many ways his campaign following the crossing of the 232 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 2: Pyrenees is quite brilliant, and of course it leads in 233 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 2: the end to Britain occupying everything from Bordeaux down to 234 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 2: the French border. That by that time the Austrians, the 235 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 2: Prussians and the Russians were in northern France, and the 236 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 2: situation became impossible for Napoleon. Although Napoleon's own campaign of 237 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 2: eighteen fourteen is also a masterpiece. With very small forces, 238 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 2: he stymied his major enemies in the north, but that 239 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 2: left Wellington free in the south. 240 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: There seems to be an enormous gap in the capabilities 241 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: of the French generals without Napoleon, they're pretty consistently unable 242 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 1: to cope with Wellington. 243 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 2: Yes, that's true, and Wellington himself explained it by saying 244 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 2: that French logistics, French organization was like a very very 245 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 2: fine harness on a horse. It was beautifully constructed, a 246 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 2: beautiful he said. If it breaks, it takes forever to mend. 247 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 2: He says, I just tie ropes to make a harness, 248 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 2: and if something breaks, I tie a knot and keep going. 249 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 2: And that is in many ways true. And of course 250 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 2: this adds to the drama of Waterloo, because on the 251 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 2: eve of Waterloo Napoleon is entirely confident of victory. And 252 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 2: these generals who have faced Wellington have been beaten by 253 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 2: Wellington and say, no, no, you've got to be cautious. 254 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 2: This man is good. And he looks at them scornfully 255 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 2: and says, you only say that because he's beaten you. 256 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 2: I tell you I can beat him and will beat him. 257 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 2: And that is, I really think part of the drama, 258 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 2: because you're right. Napoleon was a genius of war, but 259 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 2: he was faced by another one. And it was like 260 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 2: the Wimbledon final. These two greatest players in the world 261 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 2: have never met before and they meet at the final, 262 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 2: and thank goodness, Wellington won. 263 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: I went back recently and reread you Are, a description 264 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: of the novel involving Waterlooon. It is really a close 265 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: run things. 266 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 2: Willington said, it was a close run thing. And again, 267 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 2: the drama of the battle is it began at about 268 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 2: eleven o'clock in the morning, it's still going at eight 269 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 2: thirty at night, and really at eight o'clock it would 270 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 2: be impossible to say who is going to win this. 271 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 2: And then finally Napoleon throws in his elite troops in 272 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 2: the final attack. The attack of the Imperial Guard up 273 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 2: against Wellington's weakened right wing, and you have this final 274 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 2: clash and it all happens very suddenly. An immediate result 275 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 2: happens when the Imperial Guard is defeated and the rest 276 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 2: of the army just panic and run. It is an 277 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 2: incredibly dramatic moment, one of the most dramatic moments in warfare. 278 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: Because you recognize the nature of southern France. You really 279 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: give us a sense of how important it was to 280 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: be able to have engineering and to be able to 281 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: figure out both how to keep the other side of 282 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: the Fresh off balance and how to build crossing so 283 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: rapidly that you can get the army because it's in 284 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 1: constant danger of being caught with half of it on 285 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: the north side and half of it on the south 286 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 1: side and being defeated. 287 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 2: In detail, well, that really was the story of that campaign. 288 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 2: And again Wellington's understanding of the problems is in many 289 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 2: ways the key to solving them. And he had great 290 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 2: faith in his engineers, who were very, very, very efficient, 291 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 2: and he depends for his survival on these pontoon bridges 292 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 2: that his engineers construct, and when the pontoon bridges fail, 293 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 2: he's in Trouble. But really I think the masterpiece and 294 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 2: it's actually not in Sharp Storm, although I think you 295 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 2: learn all about it if you read the novel. Was 296 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 2: the crossing of the river Adure when he crossed it 297 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 2: at its estuary, the widest point the river, and an 298 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 2: almost impossible place to build a bridge because it was 299 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 2: subject to Atlantic storms. And yet the engineers managed to 300 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 2: throw a bridge over in less than twenty four hours, 301 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:33,880 Speaker 2: and Wellington crosses, and that's out flanks Marshall Soux. Yet again, you. 302 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: Any care that you actually wanted Sharp to be there, 303 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: but it didn't fit the timeline because of Sharpe siege. 304 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 2: Yes, this is called disorganization. On my part, I really 305 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 2: thought the climax of the book would be the building 306 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 2: of the great bridge over the river at Dure, and 307 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 2: then suddenly realized, when I was halfway through the book 308 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 2: that I'd already had Sharp somewhere else when that happened, 309 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,479 Speaker 2: so I couldn't tell it, which forced me to come 310 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 2: up with another ending for the book, which in the 311 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 2: end I rather liked. When Sharp is sent to make 312 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 2: a reconnaissance of the northern Bank, I have absolutely no 313 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 2: evidence of such a reconnaissance. Took place, but I can't 314 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 2: believe it didn't, so I just made it up. 315 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's very likely that whether Sharp 316 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 1: did it or somebody else did it, the willing to 317 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: want to know what was there. 318 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 2: Oh yes, I agree with you, and I take great 319 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 2: joy in your agreements. 320 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: One of your most interesting characters in this book is 321 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 1: Sir Nathaniel Peacock, who is a real figure. It's kind 322 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: of unkind to him to set him up for ridicule, 323 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:37,640 Speaker 1: but apparently it was real. 324 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 2: Oh yes, he was real. I mean one of the 325 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 2: first persons who ever read the book said you can't 326 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,360 Speaker 2: get away with this, and I hadn't written the historical 327 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 2: note by that time. He said, one, the name is ridiculous, 328 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 2: and two, no one can be that pompous and that stupid. 329 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 2: And I pointed out that in fact, the man existed, 330 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 2: and Sir Nathaniel was, if you like, a cowboy caricature 331 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 2: of the arrogant British officer who is born too rich, 332 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 2: too privileged, and thinks he knows it all and on 333 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 2: the whole. Wellington had managed to get rid of most 334 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,439 Speaker 2: men like that, but at the last minute, Sir Nathaniel 335 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 2: is inflicted on the army. And he makes a perfect 336 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 2: character for Sharp to dislike, because Sharp because he's the 337 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:27,199 Speaker 2: very opposite of a pompous, arrogant, privileged officer. And I 338 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 2: went to a spoiler and say, what happens to Snathaniel 339 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 2: in the book, But it's all true. It happened more 340 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 2: or less exactly as it's described in the book. 341 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: You have several of those scattered through the book that 342 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:43,199 Speaker 1: people who are out of touch with reality, taken up 343 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: with their own aristocracy, and dangerous to the army, and 344 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: yet favored by the army headquarters back in London. 345 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 2: Which was due to their social position and the contacts 346 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,719 Speaker 2: they had. And Wellingson often complained when new officers were 347 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 2: sent to him that they were useless incompetent popping jays, 348 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 2: but somehow he survived them. 349 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 1: You communicate the army is winning not because it's perfect, 350 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: but because in its imperfections, it is still dramatically more 351 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: durable than its opponent, which I think a really interesting 352 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 1: question about culture and warfare. All the way through this, 353 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: this being the Napoleonic Horse, the British stay just below 354 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: the military crest so that the French artillery will pass 355 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: over them. The British shoot from line, so he can 356 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,479 Speaker 1: bring all of their weapons to bear. Simultaneously, the French 357 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 1: march up the hill in a column, which allows them 358 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: to control the much less professional troops that they have, 359 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 1: but at the same time means when they collide with 360 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 1: the British that only the people on the outside of 361 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: the column will be able to fight. And this goes 362 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: on consistently with Wellington for the entire period of warfare. 363 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: You know, up through Waterloo. They never learn. 364 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 2: Well, they did learn, and they tried to counter it. 365 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 2: But as you say in the end, as Wellington said 366 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,120 Speaker 2: of Waterloo, they came on in the same old way, 367 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:16,880 Speaker 2: and we saw them off in the same old way. 368 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 2: The French understood that this was a problem. Their solution 369 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 2: to the problem was to try and deploy the column 370 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,159 Speaker 2: into line just before they clashed with the British. It 371 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 2: never worked, because the British simply advanced and blasted them 372 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 2: with musketry as they tried to deploy. But they did 373 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,399 Speaker 2: know it, and they tried two things to avoid it. 374 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,120 Speaker 2: One was to send more skirmishes ahead, but they came 375 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,919 Speaker 2: up against the British riflemen, and the British had the rifle, 376 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 2: and the French didn't have rifles, and they came up 377 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 2: against the too deep British line, and as you say, 378 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 2: every British musket could fire, whereas in a column only 379 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 2: the guys in the rank and a few on the 380 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 2: files at the side could reply. So although the French 381 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 2: outnumbered the British, they were far outnumbered in the number 382 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 2: of muskets that they could use. And to me too, 383 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 2: it's astonishing that the French really didn't abolish that method, 384 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 2: but it had worked so well for them against every 385 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 2: other enemy that they just couldn't give it up. And 386 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 2: they did the same at Waterloo. The Imperial Guard attacked 387 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 2: in column and met a British line, and the line 388 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 2: is always going to win. 389 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: I had to ask you one almost sully question, I 390 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:38,120 Speaker 1: guess do you feel closer to Sharp or to Hautred? 391 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 2: Well, that's an interesting question. Probably Sharp, because I've been 392 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 2: writing him for so long, and if I'm walking the dog, 393 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 2: I hear him talking in my head Outred is in 394 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 2: many ways more fun to right because we know less 395 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 2: about his period, so I can make up more things 396 00:23:55,760 --> 00:24:00,400 Speaker 2: for him. But Sharp is incredibly real to me. So yes, 397 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 2: I'm sure that Sharp is the answer to that question. 398 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: You've always sort of ended the novels with the promise 399 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: that Sharp and his sergeant Harper well Marchigan, but you 400 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: don't at the dinners. Are we at the end of 401 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 1: the Great Journey with Sharp? 402 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 2: I have a feeling probably we are, but I always 403 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 2: say never say never, And who knows. In two or 404 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 2: three years time, when I'm wondering what the next book 405 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 2: should be, I'll hear Sharp saying, well, you haven't taken 406 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 2: me to the Battle of Alberherira yet, have you. So 407 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 2: we'll see. We'll see in the interim. 408 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 1: What are you working on? 409 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 2: I'm working on another Utred. And again I mean this 410 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 2: is we went back to about a year ago and 411 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:45,959 Speaker 2: I was thinking what will be the next book? And 412 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 2: Utred said, hey, how about me? And I'm doing what 413 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 2: I promised myself i'd never do with Utre, which was 414 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 2: going back in his history and sort of love tailing 415 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 2: this book into the series. But we'll see whether it works. 416 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: I have to confess, the first time I picked up 417 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: the initial volume where he's with his father in that 418 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 1: very first battle, I actually didn't read it very long. 419 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:12,879 Speaker 1: I have read the first couple of chapters and I thought, 420 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: this is really so different. I couldn't wrap my head 421 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 1: around it. And then about ten years later I came 422 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: back and realized how brilliant it was. And I don't 423 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,679 Speaker 1: know what it was about my two connections with Lutred, 424 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: but I become a very deep fan of that series 425 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 1: and think us a remarkable achievement. 426 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:35,120 Speaker 2: Well, thank you, missus speaker. 427 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 1: You dedicated this book to Susan Watt. You're longtime editor 428 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: and somebody who wanted you to reveal more of Sharpe's 429 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: emotional life. How did Susan shape the whole experience of 430 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: Sharp over the years. 431 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 2: Well, Susan was a quite extraordinary editor. I think she 432 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 2: felt motherly towards Sharp, and she cared very deeply about him, 433 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 2: and she was always urging me to describe his emotions 434 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 2: more and I would just say, well, he's always grumpy, 435 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 2: that's about it, and I refuse to do it. I 436 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 2: remember when I wrote the three Arthurian books, she wanted 437 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 2: to know more about Arthur's childhood, which resulted in one 438 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 2: line in the book what is the Egg to the Eagle? 439 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 2: And I refused to do it. She was a wonderful 440 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 2: editor and the books were always improved after she had 441 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 2: gone through them and made her requests. 442 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: Since she had known her for so long, would you 443 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,919 Speaker 1: go through a process of sort of chatting about the 444 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,199 Speaker 1: book before you started writing, or just showing up with 445 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:39,679 Speaker 1: the book? 446 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 2: Showed up with the book, which annoyed her. She always 447 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 2: wanted to see early drafts, and I always refused. I said, 448 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 2: you'll see the book when it's finished. And then I 449 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 2: would try and put in little traps for her, because 450 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 2: I would understand that the one thing she was really 451 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,159 Speaker 2: going to object about the book, so I'd put in 452 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 2: four or five others, things which I would pretend to 453 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 2: fight for and give way on so I didn't have 454 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 2: to give way on the big one. I think she 455 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 2: eventually realized what I was doing and became better at 456 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 2: sorting it out. 457 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,120 Speaker 1: Well, that's very funny, you know. I always have this 458 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 1: problem when I write. I really don't like being edited. 459 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 2: No one does. 460 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, make me feel better. Frankly, I want to thank 461 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: you for joining me. A bit more importantly, I want 462 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:29,199 Speaker 1: to thank you for all the years you've spent developing 463 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: several worlds so that people like me can literally lose 464 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: themselves in Bernard Cornwall's. 465 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 2: World, and I want to thank you for your support 466 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:42,360 Speaker 2: which has always been wonderful. Thank you, mister speaker. 467 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: You and I have to tell people your new book, 468 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: Sharp Storm is available now on Amazon and in bookstores everywhere, 469 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: and people can also follow you on your website at 470 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,199 Speaker 1: Bernard Cornwell dot net. So thank you very much for 471 00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: joining me and having this wonderful conversation. 472 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 2: Thank you, mister Sweakt. 473 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest, Bernard Cornwell. Newtsworld is produced 474 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 1: by kingridh Thwreet sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producers, Guardnzie Sloan, 475 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,439 Speaker 1: our researchers Rachel Peterson. Your work for the show was 476 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 1: created by Steve Fenley. Special thanks to the team at 477 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: Gingrish three sixty. If you can enjoy Nutsworld, I hope 478 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: you'll go to Apple Podcasts and both rate us with 479 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,199 Speaker 1: five stars and give us a review so others can 480 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: learn what it's all about. Join me on substarck at 481 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: gingrishtree sixty dot net. I'm newt gingridg. This is Newtsworld.