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Speaker 1: Hello, Hello, Hey. I don't know if you heard, but

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Speaker 1: my podcast Checking It has been nominated for the a

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Speaker 1: CP Image Award in the category of Outstanding Lifestyle and

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Speaker 1: Self Help Podcast. I'm grateful for the nomination. I I

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Speaker 1: almost didn't even do a podcast because I was just

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Speaker 1: wandering there are thousands of podcasts out there and why

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Speaker 1: is my voice needed? But the nomination from the a

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Speaker 1: CP lets me know that I made the right choice,

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Speaker 1: and I encourage you to do Don't worry if there

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Speaker 1: No nobody has your sauce, so listen. You can still vote.

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Speaker 1: Go to vote dot in double a CP Image Awards

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Speaker 1: dot net. You have until February five, um nine pm

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Speaker 1: Eastern Standard Time, and please listen to my podcast. We're

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Speaker 1: part of the Black Effect podcast Network on the I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio app or wherever you get your podcast. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for checking in. Conquer your New Year's resolutions with

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Speaker 1: the Before Breakfast podcast and each bite sized daily episode,

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Speaker 1: you'll learn how to make the most of your time

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Speaker 1: get more done. Listen to Before Breakfast on the I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio app four wherever you get your podcasts. Hello,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to our show. I'm Zoe Deschanel and I'm

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Speaker 1: so excited to be joined by my friends and cast

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Speaker 1: mates Hannah Simone and Lamar and Morris to recap our

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Speaker 1: hit television series New Girl. Join us every Monday on

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Speaker 1: the Welcome to Our Show podcast, where we'll share behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes stories of your favorite New Girl episodes. Each week,

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Speaker 1: we answer all your burning questions like is there really

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Speaker 1: a bear in every episode of New Girl? Plus you'll

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Speaker 1: hear hilarious stories like this, that was one of your

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Speaker 1: things you brought back from Yeah, all professional basketball players. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Listen to the Welcome to Our Show podcast on the

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Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get

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Speaker 1: your podcasts. What's overthrowing my democratically elected stay. I'm Robert Evans.

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Speaker 1: This is Behind the Bastards, a podcast about the worst

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Speaker 1: people in all of history. And we are, of course

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Speaker 1: recording in the immediate wake of what I think can

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Speaker 1: fairly be called an insurrection by fascist dominated right wing

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Speaker 1: militants UM. And in the immediate wake of that, I

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Speaker 1: sat down with my producer Sophie Sophie say Hi. Now

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Speaker 1: not literally sit down together, because of the plague. But

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Speaker 1: we we got on a text chat and I was like,

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Speaker 1: you know, this fascist insurrection against the democratically elected government

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Speaker 1: has a lot of similarities with other fascist insurrections against

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Speaker 1: democratically elected governments. Perhaps we should talk about the history

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Speaker 1: of fascist insurrections against democratically elected governments in order to

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Speaker 1: better prepare people for what needs to be done in

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Speaker 1: the wake of this to stop them from succeeding the

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Speaker 1: next time. And of course, once we had that idea,

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Speaker 1: the only person we could possibly bring on was our

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Speaker 1: good friend Jason Petty a k A. PROP. What what

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Speaker 1: the lick read? What's up with that failed nation? Stay?

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Speaker 1: How y'all feeling like literally I think I text Prop

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Speaker 1: and I was like, hey, I want to do this,

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Speaker 1: and like it was like yes, yeah, no brainer. There's

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Speaker 1: like they're so like you know, Robert myself, anybody else

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Speaker 1: who has like a seventh grade level understanding of history

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Speaker 1: has been like kind of flaring their arms like crazy

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Speaker 1: scientists in every movie that's like, y'all, the aliens are coming, guys,

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Speaker 1: I don't understand. How come nobody is seeing us telling y'all,

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Speaker 1: we're standing on our heads yelling at you like, this

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Speaker 1: is point for point, like bar for bar, point for point,

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Speaker 1: We've seen this before and I don't understand what you

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Speaker 1: don't understand. Yeah, how did this? Because I've been warning

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Speaker 1: about this for quite a while and uh that it

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Speaker 1: could happen here, and people continuously are like, I can't

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Speaker 1: believe you predicted this, And it's like nobody predicted this.

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Speaker 1: Everyone who was paying attention was like, Oh, this is

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Speaker 1: obviously going to happen because thousands of people are promising

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Speaker 1: to do this. Yes, it's like the dog. My favorite one,

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Speaker 1: my favorite meme going around was one where Ron Burgundy

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Speaker 1: he was like, wow, that estimated slowly over the past

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Speaker 1: ten years, Like yeah, I know, I can't believe these

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Speaker 1: people did exactly what they said they was gonna do.

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Speaker 1: This is crazy. Yeah, it's it's very frustrating. Um. And

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Speaker 1: so you know, the reason we decided to do the

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Speaker 1: special mini series Behind the Insurrections is that I think

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Speaker 1: historically that's what this is called. That you're listening to insurrection. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you and I did a similar thing this year when

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Speaker 1: the uprising against the police started, where we kind of

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Speaker 1: talked about the history of the police and I thought

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Speaker 1: that was useful to inform people both the context of

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Speaker 1: why folks were angry for a lot of folks who

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Speaker 1: maybe had never really thought that much about the police

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Speaker 1: and didn't understand all the hatred um. And I also

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Speaker 1: thought it was useful because understanding, you know, the history

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Speaker 1: of something that you want to fight is useful in

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Speaker 1: fighting it, um, whether it's the police state or a

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Speaker 1: fascist insurrection. And understanding what other fascists have done throughout

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Speaker 1: history and where they've succeeded and failed, and how the

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Speaker 1: people opposing those fascists have succeeded or failed is important

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Speaker 1: both for us to know what's coming next and to

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Speaker 1: avoid making the same mistakes that other people made in

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Speaker 1: the past that led to them being ruled by fascists,

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Speaker 1: which I'd like to avoid. So naturally, we're gonna start

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Speaker 1: with Rome, right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're about We're gonna

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Speaker 1: be starting with my old friend Benito, m Um big

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Speaker 1: Benny as no one has ever any move Yeah yeah.

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Speaker 1: The thing that I like, I mean, we're gonna get

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Speaker 1: into this, but like off jump the in in my

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Speaker 1: hopes to like, you know, help people figure out ways

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Speaker 1: in roads too, you know, their family members who have

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Speaker 1: been cooked by this like fascist movement is like is

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Speaker 1: dig inside of you and understand what it feels like

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Speaker 1: to be disenfranchised and what it feels like to feel

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Speaker 1: like you've been left behind by those that are supposed

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Speaker 1: to take care of you. And if you can understand that,

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Speaker 1: you know, coupled with a person having really non powerful

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Speaker 1: antennas to know that they're being fed bullshit, you know

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Um, then I feel like you're you're like,

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Speaker 1: you're you're starting to get an owners manual asked to

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Speaker 1: like how to not let yourself and you trying to

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Speaker 1: stop a fascist regime not incensing and creating martyrs out

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Speaker 1: of them and confirming their feelings that uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: airby against them. You know what I'm saying. It's just

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Speaker 1: it's a matter of like getting behind that and being like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: if this election was stolen, that would suck. You're right,

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Speaker 1: that would suck if that was true. It's yeah, not

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Speaker 1: though it's not, Yeah, it's not, it's not. It's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, if a bunch of Satan worshiping pedophile wizards

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Speaker 1: were eating all of our children, that would be a problem.

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Speaker 1: We should fight that. But that's not happening. It's just

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Speaker 1: not true. Bro. Yeah, the real pedophiles in power are

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Speaker 1: more like the guy you think is the Second Coming.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, so let's let's let's talk about old

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Speaker 1: old Benito Mussolini. UM moves. I started thinking about NATO

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Speaker 1: as I was watching live stream footage of people breaking

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Speaker 1: through the capital barricades and into offices with zip ties

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Speaker 1: and weapons. UM. And I know that while this was happening,

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Speaker 1: in the immediate wake of it, a lot of people

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Speaker 1: started bringing up historical comparisons, and unfortunately, I think a

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Speaker 1: ton of those historic comparisons were bad. We're the wrong ones.

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Speaker 1: To make a good example of this would be a

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Speaker 1: ton of people who compared the events of the sixth

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Speaker 1: to Krystal knocked the Night of Broken Glass. UM. And

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Speaker 1: I think everyone here knows what that is. For those

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Speaker 1: that don't listening, it was a pegram, which is a

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Speaker 1: racial amass, racial assault like on members of a specific

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Speaker 1: race basically UM. That was instituted by the Nazi government

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Speaker 1: against Jewish people in Germany. Hundreds of synagogues and Jewish

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Speaker 1: owned businesses were burnt down on the space of a night. UM.

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Speaker 1: Hundreds of people were killed. UM. And it was a

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Speaker 1: nationwide racial attack carried out at the government's behest. Right. Um,

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Speaker 1: that's not what we saw on the set. That's not this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah and yeah, probably the most prominent person to make

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Speaker 1: that comparison was our current governor or former governor of

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Speaker 1: California and current Arnold Schwartzenegger Arnold Schwarzenegger um, whose video

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Speaker 1: otherwise had some really good stuff in it about Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say I kind of dig it in

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Speaker 1: the sense of, like the way he was talking about

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Speaker 1: the remorse of people that was a part of it.

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Speaker 1: I think if he was gonna pull the Austria card, like,

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Speaker 1: it would have been a better although miss Leny's a

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Speaker 1: better parallel. But yeah, when um, when they burned the

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Speaker 1: parliament right before, Yeah, that's a more better comparison, you

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Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. Then, Yeah, absolutely, Yea has a

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Speaker 1: great TikTok content. He's got like a pet donkey that

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Speaker 1: follows him around. I'm sure he does. He's definitely like

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Speaker 1: the like the meme of like, you know, when it's

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Speaker 1: heartbreaking that the worst person, you know, it's an excellent point,

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Speaker 1: makes a really good point. Yeah, great point, Roley, And

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Speaker 1: I think his best point was just like, how you

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Speaker 1: know the victims of fascism continued long after the war,

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Speaker 1: including the children of Nazis who you know were abused

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Speaker 1: by parents and stuff. Great point to make wrong about

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Speaker 1: Christal Knock. When we're talking about actually good historic comparisons

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Speaker 1: and valuable ones to what happened on the sixth in

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Speaker 1: d C. There are a few. One of them, as

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Speaker 1: you noted, was the burning of the Austrian Parliament, which

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Speaker 1: I think we're going to talk about a bit later

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Speaker 1: in this series. Um. But and other folks have kind

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Speaker 1: of much more aptly, I think, compared what happened in

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Speaker 1: the sixth to uh the Munich Beer Hall push, which

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Speaker 1: was Adol Hitler's first attempt to seize power, And there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of good reasons to compare that to the sixth.

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Speaker 1: It's not really a perfect comparison. None of them are,

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Speaker 1: um in part because when Hitler tried to overthrow the

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Speaker 1: government starting in Munich, he was a political rabble rouser

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Speaker 1: with no power who was trying to spark a mass revolution.

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Speaker 1: And on January six it was like tens of thousands

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Speaker 1: of the president's fans, including a lot of police officers,

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Speaker 1: active duty soldiers and elected leaders who tried to take

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Speaker 1: over the capitol. It's a bit different. So for looking

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Speaker 1: for a better historic parallel to January six, I think

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Speaker 1: we might be better served by going back a year

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Speaker 1: before the nineteen Beer Hall putch, when a completely different fascist,

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Speaker 1: Benito Mussolini lad what came to be known as the

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Speaker 1: March on rome Um. A lot of really good comparisons

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Speaker 1: to what's happened, a lot of good lessons in the

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Speaker 1: March of rome Um. So most people good before you

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Speaker 1: start is just if you could it's you never really

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Speaker 1: want to like reach into the past and draw like

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Speaker 1: direct lines if you will, But if you could think

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Speaker 1: to yourself, just as a general grid, if in the

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Speaker 1: story you own the side of Mussolini, you probably on

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Speaker 1: the wrong side of history. I think we can say

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Speaker 1: that completely. So now as you continue think about your

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Speaker 1: position in this and you that might be able to

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Speaker 1: tell you which side of history you should be all

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Speaker 1: right now anyway going and if you're if you're rightfully

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Speaker 1: on the side of history, that's like, well, I don't

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Speaker 1: to stand with Mussolini, which I think the vast I

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Speaker 1: think the vast majority of people listening to this are

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Speaker 1: already there. I think one of the things this teaches

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Speaker 1: is why the people who didn't want Mussolini to wind

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Speaker 1: up in charge failed, you know, and and it's important

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Speaker 1: to know that as well. Right. Um, So, most people

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Speaker 1: are probably broadly familiar of Benito Mussolini, but because of

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Speaker 1: how history went down, he tends to be remembered mostly

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Speaker 1: as like Hitler's ridiculous and kind of sad sidekick, like

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Speaker 1: the least threatening dictator on the axis side. Um, Mussolini

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Speaker 1: doesn't wind up as like the frightening villain in a

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Speaker 1: lot of movies, right, you know, yeah, that's good. I

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Speaker 1: ever thought of it like that, but yeah, yeah, because

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Speaker 1: it's like you're just like, oh you oh yeah, you

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Speaker 1: Hitler light, unless you was in unless you was in it,

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Speaker 1: unless you was in Italy. Yeah, I mean even then

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Speaker 1: Italy would have been it would have been better to be,

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Speaker 1: you know, a Jewish person in Italy than in Germany.

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Speaker 1: Not a high bar, you know, the lowest bar in

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Speaker 1: history actually minimal hum. But yes, he gets this kind

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Speaker 1: of reputation of just being like incompetent and the junior

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Speaker 1: partner to Hitler and not very frightening. And that really

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Speaker 1: misses a lot of the history and what what people

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Speaker 1: at the time when Mussolini rose to power thought, because

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Speaker 1: Hitler actually in some ways idolized Mussolini. Um, and he

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Speaker 1: patterned his career off of Mussolini's career. The Munich Beer

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Speaker 1: Hall Pusch was inspired directly by the March on Rome.

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Speaker 1: Mussolini was not just the first um like Mussolini was

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Speaker 1: the first fascist dictator. He was the man who created

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Speaker 1: fascism as a political ideology that actually took power. Right.

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Speaker 1: We talked about Gabrielle de Nunzio, who kind of invented

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Speaker 1: a lot of the ideas that became fascism as a

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Speaker 1: and who was a contemporary of Mussolini's. But Mussolini is

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Speaker 1: the guy who made fascism work for the first time.

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Speaker 1: And when I say work, I mean actually seized power,

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Speaker 1: not that is a good government or anything. Um. He

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Speaker 1: was the first fascist who seized power from a functional democracy.

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Speaker 1: So he's he is not an incompetent buffoon. And you

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Speaker 1: kind of you it behooves you to understand how he

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Speaker 1: succeeded in the way that he did. Um. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: do a full set episodes on his life at some

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Speaker 1: point on behind the Bastards. But since we're just focused

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Speaker 1: on the march on Rome today, I'm gonna give a

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Speaker 1: little cliffs notes of Benito's life prior to him coming

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Speaker 1: to power. So Benito aml car Andrea Mussolini, which is

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Speaker 1: quite a name. That is a mafia boss right there,

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Speaker 1: except for the Andrea, right, except for that Andrea have

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Speaker 1: baptizes christening they gave him Andrea. Yeah, either that or

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Speaker 1: it's like a boy named Sue situation, and it turns

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Speaker 1: out that's actually a bad idea. Yeah. Uh. So he

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Speaker 1: was born on July three in a small Italian town

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Speaker 1: that I'm not going to try to pronounce right now.

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Speaker 1: His father, Alessandro, was a blacksmith and a socialist. He

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Speaker 1: named Benito after Mexican President Benito Warez, who's the name

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Speaker 1: sake of Uarez and who was the first indigenous president

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Speaker 1: of Mexico. Um and was a famous liberal you know.

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Speaker 1: Um I thought that was interesting, super inter Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: uh yeah, in nineteen o two. So that's like his background.

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Speaker 1: He goes a very left wing right like your parents

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Speaker 1: are naming you after the liberal indigenous president of Mexico,

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Speaker 1: Like that's that's quite a thing. That's a flex right there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what a pivot? Yeah yeah, this guy is one of

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Speaker 1: the great all time historic pivots, you know. Um. In

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Speaker 1: nineteen o two, Benito fled to Switzerland to avoid compulsory

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Speaker 1: military service. He became active in the Italian socialist movement

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Speaker 1: from Afar, and he grew obsessed with the writing of

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Speaker 1: syndicalist Georges Morel, who believed that capitalist democracy needed to

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Speaker 1: be overthrown by a combination of general strikes and violent

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Speaker 1: direct action. So he's he's a socialist's a leftist, but

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Speaker 1: he's a fan of these guys who are like, we

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Speaker 1: need a revolution and violence is okay in that revolution. Right.

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Speaker 1: That's like a big, big chunk of his early ideological upbringing.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen o four, or Benito returned to Italy under

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Speaker 1: a general amnesty for draft dodgers in exchange for which

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Speaker 1: he's he had to serve in the military for two years.

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Speaker 1: He did his time, he got out, and he became

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Speaker 1: a left wing journalist and a fire brand, participating in

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Speaker 1: a nineteen eleven riot protesting Italy's imperialist war in Libya.

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Speaker 1: He did night or five months in prison for this,

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Speaker 1: So not just like a talker, Like he puts his

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Speaker 1: skin in the game and he does time protesting and

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Speaker 1: imperialist war. Dang all right, okay, yeah, yeah he was,

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Speaker 1: he was. He was not like wishy washy about this stuff.

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Speaker 1: I guess it's the point I'm making. So as a

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Speaker 1: hardcore leftist, Mussolini hated the monarchy, which in Italy at

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Speaker 1: the time was similar in its kind of power to

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Speaker 1: the British monarchy. Italy is a constitutional monarchy at this point,

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Speaker 1: so more or less a democracy. But they've got a

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Speaker 1: king and he has some power. Um. In nineteen twelve,

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Speaker 1: Mussolini stated the king is nothing more than a useless

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Speaker 1: citizen and the Italian flag is fit only for a

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Speaker 1: dung heap. Yeah, burn it all down, burn it all

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Speaker 1: down kind of guy. Yeah, yeah, very much, very much. Now,

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Speaker 1: it may seem odd that the first fascist dictator was

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Speaker 1: a committed left wing activist in his youth, but it's

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Speaker 1: really not that strange. This is a pattern that we

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Speaker 1: see repeating itself over and over throughout the history of fascism.

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Speaker 1: In more recent times, just to talk about stuff that's

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Speaker 1: happened in the last like four years, Jason Kessler, who's

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Speaker 1: the fascist you planned and organized the first Unite the

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Speaker 1: Right rally in Charlottesville, got his starting political activism and

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Speaker 1: occupy in New York. You can find in Unicorn Rights

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Speaker 1: discord jets him talking about being very indue occupy at

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Speaker 1: the time. UM. Andrew Arenheimer, we've who's a neo Nazi

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Speaker 1: hacker and a prominent member of the fascist movement in

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Speaker 1: this country, claims to have been an organizer at Occupy

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Speaker 1: Wall Street. I found discussions in Unicorn Riots archive where

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Speaker 1: we've debates with other Nazis who were there about how

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Speaker 1: Occupied could have been handled differently and been more successful.

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Speaker 1: And for a lot of these Nazis, the failure of

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Speaker 1: the occupy movement to garner any real change and the

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Speaker 1: ease with which the police swept it aside were major

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Speaker 1: factors in radicalizing these guys to the far right. One

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Speaker 1: fascists that I found in a discord conversation said quote,

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Speaker 1: I was at Occupy Wall Street in two thousand eleven.

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Speaker 1: It was black pilling as fuck, by which he means

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Speaker 1: the experience was so disheartening that it pushed him towards fascism. Um,

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Speaker 1: and that's really what we see with Mussolini um, he's

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Speaker 1: very involved in left wing politics. He gets arrested for them,

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Speaker 1: and he sees them continue to fail. Right, they don't

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Speaker 1: succeed in overthrowing the government, they don't succeed in pushing

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Speaker 1: the changes that he believes are necessary, and it starts

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Speaker 1: to embitter him. I I often think that like some

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Speaker 1: of that happens in the black community with just also

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Speaker 1: like like still trying to wrap my brain around, Like

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Speaker 1: I saw a video of crips for Trump on the

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Speaker 1: on the UH at the at the at the at

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Speaker 1: the insurrection earlier. It's like Chris for Chump, west Side

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Speaker 1: something something, and and I could not wrap my brain around,

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Speaker 1: like how does will work? But I think it's it.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of it does have to do

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Speaker 1: with the fact that, like, you know, we've tried so hard,

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Speaker 1: we put our flag in the sand with this particular

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Speaker 1: way of approaching you know, political change, and it's not working,

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Speaker 1: that you're like, well forget it, you know, and then like,

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Speaker 1: well maybe this will work. Maybe this going this direction

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Speaker 1: speaks more to like since the Empire the machine just

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Speaker 1: met us with might and just overpowered us with Mike

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Speaker 1: because they just they're just more powerful you'll only recourse

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Speaker 1: is to be like, well, I need to be more

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Speaker 1: powerful than that. I don't know. Yes, yes, that's exactly

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Speaker 1: when you when you're I think you're really onto something

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Speaker 1: like when you were when you're getting your ass kicked.

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Speaker 1: And I think some of this is that I think

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Speaker 1: it's probably more common with males who are kind of activism,

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Speaker 1: like and you get your pride is harm by getting

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Speaker 1: the ship kicked out of you repeatedly, by the repeated

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Speaker 1: failure to win, to advance, um, by the sheer strength

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Speaker 1: of your opponents. I do think that that can have

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Speaker 1: the effect of pushing people in that kind of more

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Speaker 1: violent authoritarian direction where you're like, well I just want

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Speaker 1: to win, Like yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if that

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Speaker 1: has if that's a part of what's going on. And

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Speaker 1: I think it is for Mussolini, because the switch for

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Speaker 1: him really happens as a result of World War One. UM.

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Speaker 1: So basically what you've got with World War one, Archduke

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Speaker 1: friends Ferdinand get shot dead along with his wife, and

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Speaker 1: it starts this this series of events right um, where

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Speaker 1: Austria is going to invade Serbia and Russia is going

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Speaker 1: to come in on the side of and like it

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Speaker 1: starts this whole domino effect, And so there's months between

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Speaker 1: his assassination and the actual outbreak of the war where

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Speaker 1: everyone knows that Europe is gearing up for a war.

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Speaker 1: And prior to that happening, the international left, the communist International,

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Speaker 1: largely had been very anti war, very united across national boundaries.

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Speaker 1: But as soon as a mass European war becomes a reality,

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Speaker 1: it starts to splinter. And there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: folks who had been socialist leftist, like workers who instead

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Speaker 1: of kind of siding with workers solidarity or like, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna side with my country on this um. And

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Speaker 1: you know, that's not the only thing that's happening. There's

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Speaker 1: also like this, the Second International tries to organize like

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Speaker 1: some sort of workers strike or something like. There's a

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Speaker 1: couple of ideas about how they might stop the war

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Speaker 1: by organizing workers, and all of these ideas fail um

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Speaker 1: and you know, all of these ideas fail, and Europe

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Speaker 1: lurches towards war, and it's kind of like this moment

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Speaker 1: where this big international left wing movement shows it that

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Speaker 1: it's toothless in the eyes of at least of the

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Speaker 1: eyes of a guy like Mussolini, like, we said like this,

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Speaker 1: we weren't going to let this kind of thing happen,

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Speaker 1: and now it's happening. Um So that that for one

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Speaker 1: thing as a source of frustration to a lot of people. Um.

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Speaker 1: Mussolini is more directly enraged by something that happens earlier

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Speaker 1: in nineteen fourteen, um, something called Red Week, which was

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Speaker 1: when a bunch of workers there was a big mass

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Speaker 1: becers revolt in Italy that was brutally put down by

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Speaker 1: Italian police and the Royal Army. Um. And this had

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Speaker 1: kind of convinced him that the bourgeoisie leaders of left

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Speaker 1: wing political parties, the actual like liberals and socialist in

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Speaker 1: government didn't really support revolution and he did. So all

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Speaker 1: of this stuff is kind of in the mix, leading

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Speaker 1: to him getting kind of black pilled, to use the

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Speaker 1: words of that other Nazi. Um. And Benito doesn't come

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Speaker 1: out as against the war as a result of this. Instead,

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Speaker 1: he decides to become incredibly pro war because he thinks

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Speaker 1: it's going to accelerate the collapse of the Italian state

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Speaker 1: and lead to a revolution. Right. Um So, in mid September,

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Speaker 1: after Italy announced her neutrality in the war. Benito tells

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Speaker 1: the staff of the newspaper he worked at, Avanti, which

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Speaker 1: was a socialist paper, that he'd become convinced that war

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Speaker 1: alone could bring revolution to Italy. Um, so yeah, he's

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Speaker 1: kind of like an accelerations. We need to go to

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Speaker 1: war because that's going to force a revolution, is the

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Speaker 1: only way. Yeah, yeah, I I yeah. When you it's

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Speaker 1: it's always at least in my head, like I've I've

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Speaker 1: kind of let go of the like linear swing of

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Speaker 1: like you know, far right far left in my brain.

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Speaker 1: I know, we use that because that's how we understand

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Speaker 1: the world right now, but like it seems much more

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Speaker 1: like circular to where it's like, uh, they ended authoritarianism

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day, they end with a

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Speaker 1: with a strong dude like so so it was crazy

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Speaker 1: like yeah, so like the further left you go, you're

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Speaker 1: still gonna end that a dude overpowering I think, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I I which I was gonna say, which which why

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Speaker 1: Like I'm now leaning more towards thinking in anarchist ways

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Speaker 1: of being like you gotta get off this loop. It's

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Speaker 1: just this the whole it's there. We're gonna land in

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Speaker 1: the same place at some point, somebody's going to get oppressed,

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Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, and what you're So, there's a couple

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Speaker 1: of things, a couple of terms that are used a

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Speaker 1: lot for the kind of thought process that you just explained.

426
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,400
Speaker 1: One of them is horseshoe theory, which is this idea

427
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 1: that the left and the right, when you go far enough,

428
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 1: come around to the same place. And I I don't

429
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 1: subscribe to that because I don't think that left wing

430
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,439
Speaker 1: ideals and far right ideals are super similar, but I

431
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,400
Speaker 1: do think that what you see that looks like that.

432
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: The reason why the far left and say Soviet Russia

433
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 1: under Stalin and the totalitarianism of Hitler have a lot

434
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 1: of similarities and similar body counts is because authoritarians always

435
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:40,479
Speaker 1: trying to say exactly exactly it's the authoritarian left authoritarian right,

436
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,439
Speaker 1: and Mussolini is always an authoritarian leftist. So it's easy

437
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 1: to go authoritarian right. If you're anti authoritarian, it's a

438
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,159
Speaker 1: lot harder to wind up at that. We should have

439
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 1: a dictator place. Get off the loop, because if it

440
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,919
Speaker 1: ends at authoritarian ism, then this is not where I

441
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,199
Speaker 1: need to be. Yeah, exactly, if it ends with like

442
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: all of the power, we're being in one dude or

443
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 1: a tiny number of people's hands. Yeah, no, I want

444
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 1: It's like somewhere on this horse to I knew that

445
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 1: that wasn't a good idea. You know what I'm saying,

446
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,719
Speaker 1: we need to get off the ride. And and Mussolini

447
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 1: is very much just a guy who's he's of that.

448
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 1: He's he's always been kind of an authoritarian um in

449
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 1: part because he is very in love with his own

450
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 1: ideas and thinking. And that's the same when he's on

451
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,919
Speaker 1: the left as when he's on the right. And you know,

452
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,919
Speaker 1: it's not a clean process of him going from socialist

453
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 1: to fascist. But it happens over the course of not

454
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: just World War One, but ramping up to getting Italy

455
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 1: involved in World War One. So Italy had, prior to

456
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: the outbreak of hostilities been allied with the Central Powers,

457
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 1: so they should have come in the war on Germany's side.

458
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: But they very intelligently, We're like, no, no, we're not

459
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 1: We're not doing this. This does seems like a good idea,

460
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 1: but and that's why. So they say we're not getting

461
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: involved in the war, and Mussolini becomes a pro war activist,

462
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 1: trying to force Italy to come into the war on

463
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 1: the side of the Allies, so fighting against the people

464
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,199
Speaker 1: they've been allied with before. And I'm gonna quote now

465
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 1: from a write up in nineteen fourteen to nineteen eighteen online,

466
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:13,959
Speaker 1: which is a World War One encyclopedia. It's a very

467
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 1: good resource on all this. After his late October editorial

468
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:22,360
Speaker 1: demanded Italian intervention, socialist outrage prompted Mussolini's resignation. So he's

469
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: forced to resign from the party he had been a

470
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: member of. When his pro interventionalist newspaper will Popolo the Italia,

471
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: the Italia, the the Italian people, I think is what

472
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: it stands for. Yeah, not appeared In mid November, the

473
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 1: party expelled him. Mussolini concealed its funding by industrialists, the French,

474
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 1: his wealthy lover Margharita Saffrati, and possibly Russian agents. For

475
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 1: six months, through editorials and demonstrations, he promoted the interventionalist movement.

476
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 1: Collaborating with syndicalist Filippo Corradoni, Mussolini demanded war against Italy's

477
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 1: allies Germany and Austria Hungary to demolish bulwarks against European

478
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: Revolution of victorious war would forge a national mass movement

479
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 1: demanding political change. If the government rejected war, Mussolini threatened revolution.

480
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 1: Most Italians favorite piece, but Vittorio Emmanuel, the third King

481
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: of Italy, forced a war declaration on twenty four of

482
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 1: May nineteen fifteen. So there's a lot of interesting stuff

483
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: that's happening there. One of them is that Mussolini has

484
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: an ideological reason for wanting war because he thinks it's

485
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 1: going to lead to revolution. Another is that he's very

486
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 1: likely getting paid by foreign powers in order to incite

487
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 1: Italy to come in on their side. Um, kind of

488
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: like our ad sponsors who pay us, you know who

489
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490
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524
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Speaker 1: like this at the end when he says you got

525
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: some schmid on your face. I feel like I pitched

526
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: that joke. I believe that. I feel like I did.

527
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: I'm not on a thousand percent I want to say

528
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: that was I tossed that one out. Listen to the

529
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: Welcome to Our Show podcast on the I Heart Radio app,

530
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Uh, we're back. Um,

531
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: So yeah, we're talking about Mussolini becomes this very much

532
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: like interventionalist figure and there's a mix of ideology and

533
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: foreign backing that kind of pushes him towards it. And

534
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: I could talk about websites like the Gray Zone and

535
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: they're weird Russian funding and how they're ostensibly left wing

536
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: but also pro imperialist intervention when some countries do it,

537
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: but I won't because we need to move on to

538
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: the story of Benito Mussolini. We've seen these patterns happen

539
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: recently as well. So Mussolini was obviously just one very

540
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 1: prominent voice in favor of war. He was a major

541
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 1: pro war figure, but he was probably he was not

542
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: the only one, and he was probably less influential than

543
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: Gabrielle de Nunzio, who again we covered in a two

544
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: party that I'd recommend people listen to. And to his

545
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: minimal credit. After helping to monger his nation into war,

546
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: Mussolini joined the army and fought as a bersiglieri uh,

547
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: which is like a marksman. It's almost a special forces unit,

548
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: right like it's an elite military unit. Um, kind of

549
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: like the Army Rangers, it seems um. And he was

550
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 1: did at the front by an exploding mortar in one

551
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: of Italy's many bloody stalemates with Austria. Since he'd become

552
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 1: a very public face of the pro war movement, the

553
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: King came to visit him twice while he was in

554
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: the hospital. Benito became a bona fide celebrity, and when

555
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: the war ended, this provided him with a great deal

556
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: of political capital. He moved further and further right, pulled

557
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 1: in by the spell of Gabrielle de Nunzio's proto fascist

558
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: rhetoric when Italy was screwed over by her allies with

559
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 1: the spoils of war, because like Italy had come in

560
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: on the side of the Allies, but they didn't really

561
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: get ship at the end of it, Like they wanted

562
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 1: a lot more territory, more of Austria, and they kind

563
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: of got sucked out of it. Um. And that pisces

564
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: off the Italian right who feel like we fought and

565
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: bled and lost our comrades for this and we didn't

566
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 1: get anything. And it's because of our lay mass left

567
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 1: wing government. Um, that's how a lot of folks feel. Um.

568
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: And yeah, Mussolini becomes is basically by the time the

569
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: war ins is pretty entrenched in the growing far right

570
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: in Italy and he supports Gabrielle Benunzio when de Nunzio

571
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: leads an army of Italian special forces veterans to occupy

572
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 1: a city of fume Um. And this is we again,

573
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: we talk about this in our episodes on de Nunzio,

574
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: but fume is this city that was part of Yugoslavia.

575
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: Yugoslavia gets created at wor World War One ends and

576
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: they get this city that Italy thought should be theirs.

577
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: So Denunzio leads an army of retired Special Forces veterans

578
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: to take it, and they turn it into this weird

579
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 1: It's like this melting pot because in you know, nineteen

580
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: eighteen nineteen nineteen, you've got all these ideologies that are

581
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: like still kind of forming. Anarchism and communism and fascism

582
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: are popular in a lot of like similar circles of people.

583
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: There's a lot of interplay between the at this period

584
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 1: because they're all kind of new ideologies being developed and

585
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: the same kinds of people who are interested in radical

586
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: politics are all hanging out together. Um. Yeah, So FUME

587
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: is like a big melting pot for all these kinds

588
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: of things and it winds up being the place where

589
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: a lot of what becomes fascism gets cooked up. It's

590
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: like that's that's the agency, you say, because like I

591
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: do picture it as like this, like yeah, like planets

592
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: for like nebulous balls of gas, where it's like it's

593
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 1: all the same elements and like you know, you're it's

594
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: still like, yeah, all this stuff is still kind of

595
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: coalescing and stuff like that. And but I also think

596
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: this particular moment in history for me is is it's

597
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: it should be very anchoring or or calibrating for all

598
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: of us, because what it tells you is that borders

599
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: are bullshit, like like it's not real. Borders are real,

600
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: Like you know what I'm saying, Like somebody just decided

601
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: that fumes in Yugoslavia, Like Yugoslavia came out of this

602
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: plot of land, has been here the whole time, all sometime,

603
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: I drew a line around, you know what I'm saying.

604
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: So it's like a large chunk of the city's population,

605
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: our Italian like yes, yeah, all of a sudden, they

606
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: just woke up in another country, you know what I'm saying.

607
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 1: So like that to me, like I need everybody remember

608
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: that when we're talking about our modern politics, like the

609
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: ship came from year and it's made up well, and

610
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: when we're talking about why so many people because one

611
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: of the things you see in this period is a

612
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 1: lot of people who were anarchists become fascists, and a

613
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: lot of fascists become anarchists. And it's because, in part

614
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 1: because when you when you live through a thing where

615
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: suddenly tens of millions of people wake up one day

616
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: in a completely different country than they went to sleep in,

617
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 1: everything is more malleable, right, Everything is more malleable. And

618
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: it's not obviously like fascism and anarchism are not similar ideologies,

619
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: but people who are into both may be drawn to

620
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: certain similar things. For example, a major aspect of fascism

621
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,240
Speaker 1: is the cult of action for action's sake, the beauty

622
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: of violence and physical exertion and speed. And a lot

623
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 1: of anarchists were also into direct action, physical violence, fighting

624
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 1: like and so if you've got communities that are kind

625
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: of embracing this idea of action for action sake, some

626
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: of them are anarchists, some of them are fascists. But

627
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: a lot of times they're gonna wind up at the

628
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: same fucking places, you know, which is kind of you Also,

629
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 1: if you look at Germany prior to Hitler's rise to power,

630
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 1: there were times when communists and the fascists fought alongside

631
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: each other against the cops. It happened. It's a thing

632
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: that occurred, just this understanding that like, whatever we have

633
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: right now isn't working exactly like you know, what I'm saying, like,

634
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 1: and so you're all gonna be in the same space. Yeah,

635
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: And a lot of people in Fume they're not. They

636
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 1: maybe have called themselves a fascist and anarchist at the time,

637
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: where a communist it wasn't really settled in their minds.

638
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,359
Speaker 1: They just knew that what they had grown up with

639
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 1: was wrong, you know. Um, And yeah, so Fume is

640
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,320
Speaker 1: one of the things that comes out of this experiment

641
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: in Fume is the Italian fascist movement gets like solidified

642
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, but it starts before, like

643
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,320
Speaker 1: there's thinkers pushing it before then. And while do Nunzio

644
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 1: is off on his adventure and fume um, Benito Mussolini

645
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: forms a fascist party in March twenty three of nineteen nineteen. Now,

646
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 1: a lot of the impetus behind the early fascists in

647
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 1: Italy were demilitarized army veterans, in particularly Special Forces guys UM.

648
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: Most of the fighters who accompanied de Nuncio to Fume

649
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:08,839
Speaker 1: were members of the r d T, which is like

650
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 1: the Italian equivalent of like Special Forces guys. Like. They

651
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 1: were very elite soldiers. Mussolini had served in an elite

652
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 1: unit of marksman Um there were a bunch of like

653
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: the the guys who followed de Nunzio, the RDD were

654
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 1: like trench like stormers. They would do like what the

655
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 1: German stormtroopers would do, um, and they were terrifying people.

656
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 1: They would go into battle with like knives in their

657
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 1: teeth and grenades in both hands, like running directly ahead

658
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 1: of artillery barrages, and like this is where like a

659
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 1: lot of that cult of action for actions saying these

660
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 1: are adrenaline junkies. That's a huge part of early fascists

661
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: in Italy and Germany. These are guys who became addicted

662
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: to adrenaline during the war and can't stop fighting when

663
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: they get back home. And it's a thing that is

664
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 1: a factor in our modern fascist movements. Right. A lot

665
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: of a lot of vets and cops and stuff wind

666
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: up in that. UM. I'm also interested in just the enarrowomised.

667
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 1: As I started a political party, I'm like, logistically, what

668
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 1: does that look? Was there like paperwork? You file? Like,

669
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:07,919
Speaker 1: how do you style? Like? I still think, like, yeah,

670
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 1: we'll start a party. We'll talk about that in just

671
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: a second. I want to talk a little bit more

672
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,280
Speaker 1: about some of these demilitarized vets. Yeah, there's a form

673
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: online somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. The r d D had been

674
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 1: formed in June of nineteen seventeen UM as a special

675
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: forces unit in Italy. Um and they were like when

676
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: they were like sort of um like new. One of

677
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 1: their commanding officers address the unit, these very young men,

678
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: most of whom came from a peasant background, who had

679
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: gotten to be very good at fighting, extremely experienced veterans,

680
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: and he tells the soldiers, you are the first, the best,

681
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,720
Speaker 1: the future owners of Italy, the new Italian generation, fearless

682
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 1: and brilliant. You will prepare the great future of Italy.

683
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: The smile of the beautiful Italian woman as your reward,

684
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: you can tell you can't tell no little like young hungry,

685
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: violent dude. That no, exactly right, Like you see the

686
00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 1: seeds of this, like why so many of these guys

687
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 1: become fat? And as an aside, one of the emblems

688
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 1: on their uniform that they wore in their hats was

689
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: a skull and crossbones, which is the same basic emblem

690
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: that the Nazi s s which started as like Nazi

691
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 1: street fighters before they were a military and you know

692
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 1: what they wore, right, like a lot of the same

693
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 1: ships happening. These guys. The r d D are famous

694
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: for giving the stiff armed Roman salute, the sig hile

695
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 1: as most people know it. Um Like, so a lot

696
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 1: of this stuff again, you see it all cooking up

697
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 1: in World War One. And by the time the war

698
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: came to an end, the liberal biblical elite in Italy

699
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,399
Speaker 1: knew that these young guys were terrifying. That like, oh shit,

700
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: we trained up an entire generation of incredibly violent and

701
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: competent at violence young men and now we have nothing

702
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:47,840
Speaker 1: for them to do. Like and um that they realized

703
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 1: this as a problem, they disbanded the r d D

704
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: like immediately after the war ends. It takes less than

705
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 1: a month. But these guys are still all out there,

706
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: and they have no plan for demilitarizing them. And again,

707
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: I could again make some comments about what happened in

708
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 1: Iraq after we dissolved the entire Iraqi army. Yes, now,

709
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,439
Speaker 1: it's never a good idea. You have to take care

710
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 1: of these people afterwards, otherwise they murder people in the

711
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: streets sometime or become the nexus of a fascist political party.

712
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: Um So again, four months after the armistice ended, World

713
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: War One. Three months after the r d D are disbanded,

714
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 1: on March nineteen nineteen, Benito Mussolini puts together a group

715
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,280
Speaker 1: of one hundred angry young men, a mix of Italian

716
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,760
Speaker 1: war veterans, a lot of them special forces type guys,

717
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 1: former socialist elected leaders and journalists. They meet in Milan

718
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 1: and they declare the formation of the Fascist Party. So

719
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:41,879
Speaker 1: that's how it happens. You get a hundred dudes together

720
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 1: and you're like, we're a fucking political party. Now start recruiting.

721
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 1: And one of Benito's first moves is to start recruiting

722
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: from the disaffected ranks of former soldiers. He brings in

723
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 1: hundreds of these guys and he reorganizes them into paramilitary

724
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 1: squads uniformed in black shirts and red Fez caps. Mussolini's

725
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: black Shirts start going after their political opponents in the

726
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 1: street now in night. Yeah, it's just like the formula doc.

727
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 1: Find somebody angry and give him a uniform, Give him

728
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 1: a uniform, tell him it's okay to go out and

729
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,839
Speaker 1: beat the ship out of people they already don't like. Yeah,

730
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: and I'm already angry, I'm already pissy. And you say

731
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 1: those dudes are your problem. And there's in any society

732
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 1: that has just gone through a war and is dealing

733
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 1: with economic inequality, which Italy is at this period, in

734
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:34,919
Speaker 1: economic collapse and incompetent political leadership, you will be able

735
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: to find tents, sorry, you will be able to find

736
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 1: tens of thousands of those whom and he are like, yeah,

737
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:40,800
Speaker 1: I'll make this my whole life. Absolutely, Oh where whatever,

738
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 1: Fred Perry shirts, fuck it, let's do it. I'll storm

739
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 1: the capital. Yes, it's very easy. Yeah, um, yes. Uh

740
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: so Mussolini forms the Fascist Party. He starts organizing all

741
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: these squads of black shirts, and for an idea of

742
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: how fast this gets out of hand, nineteen nineteen, Mussolini

743
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: starts the Fascist Party with a hundred men. By nineteen

744
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 1: twenty one, there were three hundred thousand members. Yeah. So,

745
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pause here for another little rant about modern

746
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 1: anti fascism, because this is something that's also relevant to us.

747
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 1: Over the last four years, since Antifa became a household

748
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 1: name after the first Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville,

749
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 1: liberal celebrities and politicians have repeatedly urged people not to

750
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,360
Speaker 1: confront fascists in the streets. Some of even complained about doxing,

751
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: which is the public naming and shaming a fascist activists

752
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,879
Speaker 1: who are caught in the wild doing Nazi stuff. Now,

753
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 1: the general argument tended to go something like this, people

754
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:38,320
Speaker 1: showing up to fight them just emboldens them and brings

755
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,760
Speaker 1: more of them out. Ignore them, and they'll go away.

756
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,279
Speaker 1: This was more or less the attitude of most, but

757
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 1: not all, American liberals throughout much of the Trump administration,

758
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,320
Speaker 1: and TIFA tended to be condemned as often as groups

759
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: like the Proud Boys. Police were given a free hand

760
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 1: to use violence on anti fascists, while fascist street movements

761
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 1: were ignored or directly enabled by law enforcement and by

762
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 1: political parties. Will a political party, these organizations, as a result,

763
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 1: grew steadily in power and reach for several years now.

764
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: On January two, liberal activist Amy Siskin tweeted, if you

765
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:11,919
Speaker 1: live in d C, stay off the streets. On January six,

766
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:14,879
Speaker 1: let the DC police take care of the white supremacists

767
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,320
Speaker 1: like they did in Oregon yesterday. I actually think it

768
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 1: will be fun to watch l O L. Yeah. Not

769
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 1: a take that aged well ah yeah. Now, when anti

770
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 1: fascists say fascist movements have to be confronted immediately and

771
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,319
Speaker 1: often with physical force. They're not always at least using

772
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,919
Speaker 1: bluster or bravado. There's certainly adrenaline junkies within the ranks,

773
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 1: and I've met a few of those people. Absolutely, but

774
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,800
Speaker 1: that's not entirely even mostly what that is. It is,

775
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:53,320
Speaker 1: in fact, a calculation based on a century of documented history,

776
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 1: um again from a hundred to three hundred thousand in

777
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 1: about two and a half years. Yeah, wow, because ain't

778
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: nobody say nothing? Yeah? Because or not enough with set?

779
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: You're not enough with set. It's it's yeah, it's crazy

780
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 1: when you're dealing with like when you, like I said,

781
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 1: you're already angry, You're already like all you understand is might,

782
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 1: and it's like you can't reason with somebody that only

783
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:24,799
Speaker 1: understand Might. Yes, but then if I go meet you

784
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 1: with Might and I don't beat you, then we all

785
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 1: wasted our time and you you feel vindicated because I

786
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,919
Speaker 1: wasn't able to stop you. It's just yeah, this, the

787
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:42,720
Speaker 1: the whole the whole concept just puts everybody in a pickle.

788
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 1: It's not an easiest thing to solve. Yeah, you can't

789
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:49,239
Speaker 1: solve it, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, I'd like,

790
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: I mean, the best solution is to oppose them with

791
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 1: overwhelming numbers because that actually drastically diminishes the amount of

792
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 1: violence that there will be if you none, none of

793
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 1: these guys want to get into a fight, if they're

794
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 1: out number three d to one. That's not when the

795
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: violence happens. It's when they have the numbers, or there's

796
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 1: parody of numbers, you know. Yeah, And that's why people

797
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 1: were saying, like, what if tens of thousands of people

798
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 1: have showed up in the streets of DC to protest,

799
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 1: I don't think they would have made it through the

800
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 1: capital barricades. Now it's a pandemic. None of this is

801
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 1: a simple situation, and it wasn't simple in Italy. And

802
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 1: we'll talk We're gonna talk now about the anti fascist

803
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:31,919
Speaker 1: resistance in Italy because in Italian, like Italian fascism did

804
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 1: face substantial resistance from anarchists and other anti fascists, um,

805
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: and we're about to talk about why that didn't wind

806
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 1: up working out. Much of the anti fascist resistance in

807
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 1: Italy also came from members of the r d D,

808
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 1: from other like UH elite soldiers who just like weren't

809
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 1: Nazis right hadn't been or fascists who hadn't been pushed

810
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 1: right who had gotten left instead, or who just didn't

811
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 1: still believed in the idea of democracy, Because again anti

812
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:58,959
Speaker 1: fascists in Italy there's a mix of like the hard left,

813
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 1: but also just like people who are republican right and

814
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: like the sense of I support a republican form of government,

815
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 1: not like not like a modern republican totally different. So

816
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 1: the inciting incident for the violence between anti fascists and

817
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 1: fascists in Italy is generally seen to as having been

818
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: an attack Mussolini ordered on April fifteenth, nineteen nineteen, against

819
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 1: the newspaper he used to write for, Avanti, which was

820
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 1: the Socialist Party newspaper UM. Now, Italian fascists were courageous

821
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 1: and often well organized, but they had to contend with

822
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 1: not just fascists but the police in the army. This

823
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 1: meant that the deck was stacked against them from the beginning. Meanwhile,

824
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,839
Speaker 1: events and Fume caused Mussolini to realize that he had

825
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 1: an advantage in the fact that the police and the

826
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:45,359
Speaker 1: army were inherently sympathetic to fascists. So again we talked

827
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 1: about Donunzio's occupation of Fume. Um in another episode, but

828
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 1: a brief refresher here's worthwhile. In short, Uh, he occupies

829
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 1: Fume for about fifteen months. Um, there's all sorts of

830
00:45:56,160 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 1: art and weird sex and political sure, and yeah, things

831
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:03,240
Speaker 1: go a little wild, and eventually the King of Italy

832
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 1: like is forced to do something. So King Victor Emmanuel

833
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 1: the Third, whose nickname was Little Sword because he's a

834
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 1: tiny guy. Um, at least he all things to be

835
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 1: called sword. Yeah, yeah, you know, I mean they're Italians,

836
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 1: you know what they're saying. Yeah, that's called it. You

837
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:26,959
Speaker 1: can't be the king and called little Sword you liked.

838
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 1: He's not a very good king, so um, he's very

839
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 1: sympathetic to what do Nunzio is doing. He wants Italy

840
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 1: to control Fume, right, so he thinks that do Nunzio

841
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 1: and his proto fascists are in the right. But also

842
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 1: Fume went to Yugoslavia by international treaty and he's not

843
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 1: about to go to war with the rest of Europe

844
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 1: over a city of sixty people. So he has to

845
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 1: send in the army and navy to clear Denuncio out.

846
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 1: In December, of nineteen Now, after this de Nunzio spell

847
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:56,800
Speaker 1: over the r d D and the other really hardened

848
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 1: war veterans who had gone to him and Moss like

849
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:01,800
Speaker 1: they're his spell over them is broken and they switched

850
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 1: their allegiance to Mussolini. So these guys, the best fighters,

851
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 1: like Mussolini's early guys, aren't really as competent. The people

852
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 1: who had taken Fume, who were like really actually hard

853
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 1: and dedicated, um to fucking shut up. Like, those people

854
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 1: start swarming over to Mussolini in mass after December of

855
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty, and they expand the ranks of the black

856
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 1: Shirts significantly. Um. And Mussolini doesn't just benefit in that way,

857
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 1: he also takes a really important lesson away from what

858
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 1: happens in Fume. And I'm going to read a quote

859
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:32,399
Speaker 1: from the Warfare History Network, who did a great rite

860
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 1: up on all of this. This is them describing what

861
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 1: Mussolini learns from this occupation. The police would often overlook

862
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,760
Speaker 1: fascist depredations in favor of attacking their traditional leftist enemies,

863
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 1: the socialists. The police would also fire on opponents of

864
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 1: the monarchy. More importantly, the duche observed, which is Mussolini's nickname,

865
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 1: so would the military. Therefore, he realized he had to

866
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 1: win over the king, the police, and the armed forces

867
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 1: by a clever mix of both public bluster and behind

868
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 1: the scenes old fashioned political maneuvering to attain appointed or

869
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 1: elective office by legal means. In other words, do Nunzio?

870
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 1: He realizes Donunzia was able to get this far and

871
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 1: occupy the city because the army wasn't willing to fight him.

872
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 1: The police weren't willing to stop him while he was

873
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 1: marching there because they're sympathetic. But when do Nunzio put

874
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 1: himself in opposition to the Italian crown and the will

875
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,319
Speaker 1: of the government, the police in the army cracked down.

876
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 1: They did their duty because they're loyal to the state inherently.

877
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:31,359
Speaker 1: So if he's going to win, he can't be fighting them,

878
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: and he can make use of the fact that they're

879
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 1: sympathetic if he just becomes part of the government. That's

880
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 1: the way Mussolini realizes Fascism is not going to win

881
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 1: by a revolution. Fascism is going to win by democratic means,

882
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 1: because the deck is stacked in our favor. If we

883
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:47,439
Speaker 1: try it that way, If we try to like lead

884
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 1: a violent revolution, they'll murder us like they would anyone

885
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 1: trying to lead a revolution. If we become part of

886
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 1: the government, they'll help us crush our enemies and will

887
00:48:55,120 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: gain power. Dude. That yeah, the finessing because it's it's

888
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 1: when you lay it out, it's pretty logical, you know, Like, yeah,

889
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:12,279
Speaker 1: a monarch about something that's lasted thousands, it's it's in

890
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:14,320
Speaker 1: their d n a dog like you can't you know

891
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Like, just it's too It's like it's

892
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: too much to ask. Yeah, you know what I'm saying,

893
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: it's too much to ask these people to try to

894
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 1: like go against their very nature to be like but

895
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 1: if you if you include the crown, you keep your king.

896
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 1: We're just gonna get rid of the left. Yeah, like

897
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: them anyway, do you help us kill him? Like yeah, now, yeah, exactly. Yeah,

898
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 1: it's very saving. And this is again why I think

899
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 1: people need to have more of the kind of like

900
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 1: respect for Mussolini is opposed to seeing him as this

901
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:47,280
Speaker 1: buffoon is he first he figures it out, He figures

902
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:51,720
Speaker 1: out how fascists are going to win anyway. So Mussolini decides, Okay,

903
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 1: I have to um, I can't do what the anarchists

904
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: and the communists and the left to do and try

905
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 1: to like overthrow the government. That's not going to work.

906
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 1: My path to victory is going to be finding a

907
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 1: way into the government. And this was not hard for

908
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 1: him to do. He runs for office and in May

909
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 1: of nineteen one he's elected to the Chamber of Deputies

910
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:12,320
Speaker 1: in Rome, along with thirty four other Fascist Party members. Quick,

911
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 1: very quick, and they're kind of in the middle of

912
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 1: the pack in terms of how many elected leaders they

913
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:20,759
Speaker 1: have um but they're they're in the government now. And

914
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 1: Mussolini barely ever showed up in chamber because he thought

915
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 1: any governing body based around him compromising was dumb and

916
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 1: not worth listening to. But he liked the legitimacy that

917
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:33,360
Speaker 1: elected office gave him and his party. And it's not

918
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 1: a coincidence that ninety one is also the year when

919
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 1: the Royal Italian Army joined the police and cracking down

920
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 1: on anti fascists, because now the fascists are part of

921
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 1: the government, right, so we can yeah now. Becoming an

922
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 1: elected leader also gave Mussolini immunity from prosecution while he

923
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 1: was in office. This was helpful because while the Fascist

924
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:58,320
Speaker 1: Party gained electoral power, Mussolini's black Shirts were increasingly committing murder.

925
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna quote now from a study the Journal

926
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 1: of Values Based Leadership. Fascists agitated against the left and

927
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 1: streets and neighborhoods across Italy. Socialist offices, institutions, and party

928
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 1: newspaper headquarters were attacked and burned, militias organized throughout the country,

929
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:16,360
Speaker 1: and anti Bolshevik crusades, breaking up strikes and fighting labor

930
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 1: unions and farmer co ops. The fascist squads, dressed in

931
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 1: black shirts and uniforms, were supported by the local police, landowners, merchants,

932
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:27,279
Speaker 1: and industrialists. They used violence to destroy any organization they

933
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 1: felt could be an opposition to the doctrine of fascism.

934
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: Thousands of people were beaten, killed, or forced to drink

935
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:35,720
Speaker 1: castor oil and run out of town. Hundreds of union offices,

936
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:38,799
Speaker 1: employment centers, and party newspapers were looted or burnt down.

937
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:41,440
Speaker 1: In October of nineteen twenty, after the election of a

938
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 1: left administration in Bologna, fascists invaded the council chamber, causing

939
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:49,800
Speaker 1: mayhem and nine deaths. The council was suspended by the government. Later,

940
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 1: so again, a left wing administration is elected in this city.

941
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 1: Fascists invade the council and kill nine people and it's

942
00:51:56,560 --> 00:52:00,080
Speaker 1: suspended by the government. Later socialists and Catholic deputy is

943
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,320
Speaker 1: we're run out of parliament or had their houses destroyed.

944
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 1: The two Black Years ninety two destroyed opposition to the fascists.

945
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 1: Union organizations were crushed. The FEDA Tera Farmers co Op

946
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 1: shrank from some one million members to less than six

947
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:17,240
Speaker 1: thousand in less than five years. Unable to defend basic

948
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 1: democratic rights or prevent the criminal activities of a private

949
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:23,880
Speaker 1: militia that operated openly in nationwide, the state had lost

950
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 1: all credibility. Yo, gang banging. Any of that sounds familiar, Yes,

951
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 1: it does. It's yes, It's like, uh God dug like you.

952
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 1: It's something. It's something that fascinated me as you was reading.

953
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:46,280
Speaker 1: Is is like really helping you get into the brain

954
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 1: like a fascist to where it's like the government's not

955
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 1: the head but an appendage, like you're just you're a

956
00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 1: You're a You're a tool that I yield, just like

957
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:07,400
Speaker 1: the population, the labor unions, the military, the street guys,

958
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 1: they're all just they're all just appendages. These are arms,

959
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:13,799
Speaker 1: their tentacles, but your means to an end. So I'm

960
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:16,719
Speaker 1: getting into the government not because I feel like that

961
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 1: means I made it. It's just no, I just need

962
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 1: to wield the government or my and that like, to me,

963
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:29,239
Speaker 1: that's like a you just like oh, it's like your

964
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 1: relationship is transactional, like it's a functional This isn't the goal.

965
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:40,840
Speaker 1: I just need that. You're my sword, and I'm like, yes, yes, exactly.

966
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 1: Government just a sword. Yeah, this is my weapon that

967
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:47,439
Speaker 1: I use on you. It's it's not a list of

968
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 1: as I think a lot of liberal seat it's not

969
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 1: a series of obligations. It's not a social contract. It's

970
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 1: a gun. It's a gun. It's a gun. And when

971
00:53:56,000 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 1: you get that's Christy, they listen these Everything we just

972
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 1: read that the Black Shirts did has been the goal

973
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:10,320
Speaker 1: for years of the American fascist movement, not just of

974
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 1: groups like the Proud Boys, but of more extreme and

975
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 1: explicitly Nazi organizations. Um. You can see evidence of this

976
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 1: in attempted actions of men like Coastguard Lieutenant Christopher Hassan,

977
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:23,279
Speaker 1: who was caught with an arsenal and a list of

978
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:26,839
Speaker 1: Democratic lawmakers he planned to murder um. This is very

979
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 1: much what groups like the Proud Boys wanted to do

980
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 1: to left wing organizations nationwide. It's why you saw so

981
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:34,680
Speaker 1: many groups of right wing counter protesters and malicious show

982
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 1: up at blm rallies, right, It's why before they were

983
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:41,799
Speaker 1: showing up at left wing anti fascist events. It's what

984
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 1: you saw during the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville,

985
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 1: leftists surrounded and assaulted in mass for standing against fascists.

986
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 1: One of the great successes of the anti fascist movement

987
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:54,840
Speaker 1: in the United States that was not uh, something that

988
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 1: we saw in Italy, has been the fact that they

989
00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 1: actually did succeed in the widespread disruption and of particularly

990
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:06,440
Speaker 1: the leadership cast of different fascist organizations. Basically everyone involved

991
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:09,120
Speaker 1: in planning Unite the Right had their life ruined, and

992
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:11,280
Speaker 1: most of them are no longer relevant on the streets.

993
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:14,120
Speaker 1: Nobody talks about Jason Kessler anymore. Nobody talks all that

994
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:17,200
Speaker 1: much about Richard Spencer anymore. Um, some of them are

995
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 1: in jail, like, uh funk, what's that guy's name? The

996
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:23,400
Speaker 1: crying not Chris can't. Well, that's how that was how

997
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:25,880
Speaker 1: made I got kicked off a tender. Yeah, yeah, that

998
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:28,920
Speaker 1: I think that happened to him too. Um. And you

999
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 1: know a lot of them, like Richard Spencer's drowning in

1000
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 1: legal fees from lawsuits from people and and um, yeah,

1001
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,320
Speaker 1: in two thousand eighteen, not just angry at court cases,

1002
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:40,799
Speaker 1: but angry at the fact that his speeches were continuously

1003
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 1: disrupted by anti fascist activists. Richard Spencer complained that's giving

1004
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 1: these speech like having these gatherings was no longer fun

1005
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:52,920
Speaker 1: and quote Antifa is winning. Um. Now, he wasn't precisely

1006
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 1: right about that, because January sixth showed that the fight

1007
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:59,760
Speaker 1: is very far from But Spencer was beaten. And most

1008
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 1: of the original wave of fascist leaders, the people who

1009
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:05,840
Speaker 1: wanted to do what Mussolini did, whose goal was to

1010
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 1: do what Mussolini did, Guys like Spencer, they've been fucking sidelined,

1011
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:12,320
Speaker 1: Which means that most of the people who are prominent

1012
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 1: now have not been prominent and in the position of

1013
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:17,840
Speaker 1: leadership for all that long. So while you have groups

1014
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:19,879
Speaker 1: like the Proud Boys that have been around this whole time,

1015
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:22,240
Speaker 1: militias that go back quite a while, and more extreme

1016
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 1: groups that go back quite a while. Um, a lot

1017
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 1: of the leaders have been disrupted one way or the

1018
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 1: other have had their lives bucked up, and it's stopped

1019
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 1: them from doing in some ways what maybe they might

1020
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 1: have otherwise done. It stopped them from gaining as much power,

1021
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 1: it stopped their organizations from being as cohesive. UM. Some

1022
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:43,279
Speaker 1: organizations have been shut down, like Identity Europa. UM. So

1023
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 1: it's this has been If we want to look at

1024
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:48,919
Speaker 1: like successes of a modern anti fascist movement, that's been

1025
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:50,920
Speaker 1: one of them. And I think we can credit that

1026
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,279
Speaker 1: for the fact that the attack on the Capitol on

1027
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 1: the sixth was not better organized or more cohesive, because

1028
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 1: there has been disruption of these movements, UM. And I

1029
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 1: don't know what else would be a disruption of our

1030
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 1: our movements right now, Robert, because that is going to

1031
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:10,759
Speaker 1: disrupt my train of thoughts significantly. Yet I don't like

1032
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 1: that I decided to do that, But America, that happened.

1033
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 1: How Manny eat a chip. That's a good call. Everybody,

1034
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 1: eat a chip. Conquer your New Year's resolution to be

1035
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:29,240
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1036
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 1: sized daily episode, time management and productivity expert Laura vander

1037
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Speaker 1: Camp teaches you how to make the most of your

1038
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:38,760
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1039
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:42,360
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1040
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1041
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Speaker 1: learning new skills is the mental equivalent of pumping iron.

1042
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Speaker 1: Listen to before Breakfast wherever you get your podcasts. Hi,

1043
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 1: I'm Robert laund and I'm Joe McCormick, and we're the

1044
00:57:56,560 --> 00:57:59,320
Speaker 1: hosts of the science podcast Stuff to Blow Your Mind,

1045
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 1: where every week we get to explore some of the

1046
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 1: weirdest questions in the universe, Like if sci fi teleportation

1047
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:08,440
Speaker 1: was possible, how would it square with the multitudes of

1048
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 1: organisms that inhabit our human bodies? Can we find evidence

1049
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 1: of emotions in animals like bees, ants, and crayfish? How

1050
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1051
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:26,680
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1052
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Speaker 1: and the wonders of techno history. Basically, this show is

1053
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:33,120
Speaker 1: the altar where we worship the weirdness of reality. If

1054
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 1: anybody ever told you you ask the weirdest questions, it

1055
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:38,800
Speaker 1: is time to come join us in the place where

1056
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 1: you belong. The Stuff to Blow Your Mind Podcast New

1057
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:46,520
Speaker 1: episodes publish every Tuesday and Thursday, with bonus episodes on Saturdays.

1058
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:48,320
Speaker 1: Listen to Stuff to Blow your Mind on the I

1059
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:52,200
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1060
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:58,120
Speaker 1: What grows in the forest trees? Sure know what else

1061
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 1: grows in the forest. Our imagine Asian, our sense of wonder,

1062
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:05,280
Speaker 1: and our family bonds grow too, because when we disconnect

1063
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:11,960
Speaker 1: from this and connect with this, we reconnect with each other.

1064
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:15,560
Speaker 1: The forest is closer than you think. Find a forest

1065
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 1: near you and start exploring. I discover the Forest dot Org,

1066
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:22,080
Speaker 1: brought to you by the United States Forest Service and

1067
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:29,120
Speaker 1: the AD Council. We're back, So prop I think you

1068
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 1: had you had something on your mind before we uhm it,

1069
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 1: What the hell was I going to say? What was

1070
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:43,600
Speaker 1: I going to say? Um? Oh um? There's something that

1071
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 1: I think the these old school fascists did oh school wow,

1072
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:55,560
Speaker 1: um that these new guys they haven't done it. Yeah.

1073
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 1: I think that's why it's It's one of those things.

1074
00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:01,040
Speaker 1: It's a fine it's a fine um distinction, because I

1075
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:04,600
Speaker 1: do think there's a lot of value in showing these

1076
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 1: people as as absurd and as sad as they are. Um,

1077
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 1: you have to do it without also making them feel

1078
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 1: like they're not a threat, which is hard. Yeah, that's

1079
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 1: a that's a and and thankfully, I think one of

1080
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 1: the positives of how bad everything went on the sixth

1081
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 1: is that as absurd as it is in, one of

1082
01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:24,560
Speaker 1: the difficulties about talking about this movement to people for

1083
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 1: a while has been that like, folks, um, we're like, okay, well,

1084
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:30,600
Speaker 1: these are just a bunch of of coops on the

1085
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:34,439
Speaker 1: internet wearing dumpach t shirts about Q, Like why should

1086
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 1: I take this seriously? That's why you should take it

1087
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:41,680
Speaker 1: seriously because yes, you just yeah, it's something again like dangerous. Yes,

1088
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:44,120
Speaker 1: when you when you? When you? That's why I said earlier,

1089
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:48,360
Speaker 1: it's like somebody hungry and angry like you. If somebody

1090
01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:51,640
Speaker 1: tell you they're willing to die, believe them, you know

1091
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Like you, you you should believe them.

1092
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:56,920
Speaker 1: You take you underestimate as something you learned living in

1093
01:00:56,960 --> 01:01:00,720
Speaker 1: just the inner city. You don't underestimate anybody if you know,

1094
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 1: if they presented it to you, like I just I

1095
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:04,320
Speaker 1: don't know how hungry you are. I might look like

1096
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:07,640
Speaker 1: your lunch now if I can overpower you, or there's

1097
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 1: a whole other scenario. But you right, like I'm not

1098
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 1: gonna underestimate you, and I really feel like you know,

1099
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 1: fast forwarding or yeah, bringing us back to now, is

1100
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:23,320
Speaker 1: that I'm not sure you know, oh oh, Joe Biden

1101
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:28,000
Speaker 1: really understand how I'm serious your situation is. I don't

1102
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:31,120
Speaker 1: think he didn't say they was gonna kill you, because like,

1103
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 1: I don't think you understand they that man somebody come

1104
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:39,880
Speaker 1: into a Capitol building with a Viking horn, that man

1105
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 1: don't care about his life. He gonna kill you, Yeah, exactly,

1106
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 1: And I think I know that is Again one of

1107
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 1: the problems is I think a lot more people are

1108
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:52,400
Speaker 1: taking it seriously. But I don't think Joe Biden is

1109
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:54,800
Speaker 1: I don't think he's I don't think you. I don't

1110
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:58,080
Speaker 1: think you understand, bro, Like you know, don't you understand

1111
01:01:58,080 --> 01:02:00,360
Speaker 1: the severity of situation. It's not done and owned a

1112
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 1: twenty big like we're not done. Yeah, there's a bunch

1113
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:07,920
Speaker 1: of people out there who if they had gotten who

1114
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:11,080
Speaker 1: if they get their hands on you, will do great

1115
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 1: harm to you. And they almost did it once in

1116
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:18,880
Speaker 1: their heads at least. Uh you know. Yeah, So let's

1117
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:20,880
Speaker 1: let's talk about we were going a little bit of

1118
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:22,440
Speaker 1: a tangent there, But I want to talk about the

1119
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:25,240
Speaker 1: Italian anti fascists. So we just talked about kind of

1120
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:27,080
Speaker 1: what I see is one of the big successes of

1121
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:29,800
Speaker 1: the American anti fascist movement. I want to talk about

1122
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:33,840
Speaker 1: why the Italian anti fascist movement did not succeed. Um. So,

1123
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 1: the Italian anti fascists began to raise their own proper

1124
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:41,640
Speaker 1: army in July of ninete, because again, the fascists had

1125
01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:43,680
Speaker 1: an army, The black Shirts were an army, and it

1126
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:46,200
Speaker 1: was doing great damage to not just like anarchists, but

1127
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:49,440
Speaker 1: to all left wing movements around the country. So they

1128
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:51,920
Speaker 1: formed their own army, the r d T del Popolo,

1129
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:55,080
Speaker 1: like the People's Areddy I think, um so again they're

1130
01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:57,240
Speaker 1: still using that norm. A lot of them are veterans,

1131
01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 1: and they were a heterogeneous mix of anarchists, syndicalists, socialists, communists, republicans,

1132
01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:07,960
Speaker 1: and other non authoritarian ideologies. The r d T del

1133
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:11,680
Speaker 1: Populo were popular among the lower classes among poor Italians

1134
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:14,560
Speaker 1: because they had no party affiliations than they offered protection

1135
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 1: from the fascists, who were basically a violent gang. Now,

1136
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:20,800
Speaker 1: there were other malicious style groups that confronted fascists, including

1137
01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:23,960
Speaker 1: the r d T Rossi, which was a communist organization,

1138
01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:27,200
Speaker 1: but the local Communist party forbade them from allying with

1139
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:29,680
Speaker 1: the anarchists and the republicans and the like, because like,

1140
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:32,320
Speaker 1: you guys aren't our friends either. Right. This is again

1141
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 1: you see this happening in Germany. Now, there were communists

1142
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:37,200
Speaker 1: who were part of the r d T del Populo,

1143
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:40,840
Speaker 1: but they weren't like party communists, you know, there's a

1144
01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:43,600
Speaker 1: difference between those two things. And communists in this era

1145
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 1: is used a lot for people who were like very

1146
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 1: anti authoritarian. Um, a lot of folks would consider them

1147
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 1: basically anarchists today, and also for people who were like Stalinists,

1148
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:56,280
Speaker 1: you know, and that they weren't Stalinist yet because it

1149
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:59,120
Speaker 1: was you know, nineteen I was like wait one, but

1150
01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:01,920
Speaker 1: like yeah, they that where they that's where they're they were.

1151
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:07,800
Speaker 1: They were headed. Um. Yeah. So on July the r

1152
01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 1: d T del Populo held their first national Congress. One

1153
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:14,400
Speaker 1: of their leaders, a guy named Argo secondary, outlined the

1154
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:19,919
Speaker 1: organization's goals in a speech, and this is Argo here.

1155
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:23,280
Speaker 1: The r d T del Populo's action has to be defensive.

1156
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 1: But defense means above all to prevent and to render

1157
01:04:26,080 --> 01:04:28,880
Speaker 1: impossible any harm that can be caused by the adversary.

1158
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:31,520
Speaker 1: The r d D del Populo do not carry out

1159
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:34,960
Speaker 1: punitive expeditions, but perform acts of justice. They do not

1160
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:37,640
Speaker 1: carry terror into the population, but to fend the people

1161
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:40,400
Speaker 1: and organize their security. That is why the r d

1162
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:43,640
Speaker 1: T del Populo welcome members of various parties and contain

1163
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:46,920
Speaker 1: representatives of all political beliefs. They do not intend to

1164
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 1: make politics, but leave this to the already existing parties

1165
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:53,520
Speaker 1: and economic organizations. The r d T del Populo must

1166
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 1: act like a worker's army and give the proletariat defense

1167
01:04:56,680 --> 01:05:02,440
Speaker 1: and protection. That's not gonna work. Yeah, yeah, they tried. Um.

1168
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:04,919
Speaker 1: Now you want to guess why it didn't work. They

1169
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:08,120
Speaker 1: had no actual goals. They were just like we're just

1170
01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 1: They're like, oh no, there's no platforms. In my head,

1171
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 1: I'm like, ain't no platform. You just said we're gonta

1172
01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:15,720
Speaker 1: lead that to the government. Yeah, we're just gonna make

1173
01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:20,440
Speaker 1: sure like no food of government's compromise anyway. Tell me

1174
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:22,440
Speaker 1: that is a great, That is a great. You know,

1175
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:25,000
Speaker 1: that didn't even a credit. You're you're right, like these

1176
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:27,200
Speaker 1: guys are saying, our only goal is to defend you

1177
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:30,560
Speaker 1: from the fascists, but that's not nearly as popular as saying, hey,

1178
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:33,040
Speaker 1: here's what we we're the fascist, here's what we believe,

1179
01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:36,640
Speaker 1: here's our platform, here's what change, and we have this army. Right,

1180
01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:39,400
Speaker 1: Like that is that is a very good point. Like,

1181
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:42,320
Speaker 1: like you said, they're leaving the platform up to the government,

1182
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:45,760
Speaker 1: who is not on their side, and like you, yeah, yeah,

1183
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:49,720
Speaker 1: Now that's not everybody, right, There's a lot of anarchists

1184
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 1: and stuff who aren't saying, like, I think we should

1185
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:55,000
Speaker 1: leave it to the government, but they are saying like,

1186
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:58,200
Speaker 1: I'm not going to I think that fighting fascism with

1187
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:00,960
Speaker 1: these other people is more important than you know, pushing

1188
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:03,480
Speaker 1: my own political beliefs in this necess in this area,

1189
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:06,440
Speaker 1: which is I think a respectable thing to take. But

1190
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:09,000
Speaker 1: it was a problem that there was not a concerted,

1191
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:13,919
Speaker 1: organized um counter left wing movement that was like that,

1192
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:15,920
Speaker 1: that had like a solid platform and the to the

1193
01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:18,120
Speaker 1: extent that the fascist did. Right, there were different left

1194
01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:20,880
Speaker 1: wing groups that confronted them and had platforms, but it

1195
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:24,080
Speaker 1: was not like what it was, not on the side

1196
01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:26,320
Speaker 1: and the same scale, you know, And that's a problem

1197
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:29,040
Speaker 1: that anti fascists still have today. Right, there's a strength

1198
01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:31,280
Speaker 1: in saying like, hey, if you're a communist, if you're

1199
01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:35,280
Speaker 1: an anarchist, if you're just a libertarian who's not an authoritarian,

1200
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:37,720
Speaker 1: if you're a democrat, like, come join us. We're just

1201
01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:40,400
Speaker 1: trying to fight the fascist. But there's a weakness in well.

1202
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:43,720
Speaker 1: But also we don't agree on anything other than that. Yeah,

1203
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:46,680
Speaker 1: And it's like okay, cool, So what if you win? Yeah,

1204
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 1: what do we do or how do you win? If

1205
01:06:49,520 --> 01:06:51,760
Speaker 1: they have a thing they believe that they're fighting for

1206
01:06:51,880 --> 01:06:54,120
Speaker 1: and you're mainly fighting against them, that that is true.

1207
01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:56,680
Speaker 1: There's a good point to that, um. And there's obviously

1208
01:06:56,680 --> 01:06:58,880
Speaker 1: there's a lot of anti fascists who do who wrap

1209
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:02,080
Speaker 1: their anti fascism in um, this is part of the

1210
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:04,520
Speaker 1: struggle against capitalism, This is part of the struggle for

1211
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:06,480
Speaker 1: a better world. This is part of a revolutionary that's

1212
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:09,680
Speaker 1: a lot of it today. Um. And those people did

1213
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:12,400
Speaker 1: exist in Italy at the time. But this large organized

1214
01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:16,040
Speaker 1: the r DD del Populo, isn't really doing that, um.

1215
01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:18,760
Speaker 1: And it's it's part of their downfall, I guess, um,

1216
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:21,760
Speaker 1: because the government starts spying on them, as is always

1217
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:26,680
Speaker 1: the case whenever that is organized in any government. Undefeated boy, Yeah,

1218
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:30,200
Speaker 1: and the in Italy's FBI equivalent actually did confirm in

1219
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:32,040
Speaker 1: a report to the government that the r d T

1220
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:34,960
Speaker 1: del Populo had quote only one principal aim, that is

1221
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:37,360
Speaker 1: to react against fascism with the same means that are

1222
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:40,560
Speaker 1: employed against them, i e. Arm defense. So the the

1223
01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:42,600
Speaker 1: Italy is like FBI equivalent is like, these guys are

1224
01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:46,240
Speaker 1: only there too for defensive purposes. But despite this, the

1225
01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:48,840
Speaker 1: government orders a crackdown on the r d T del Popular.

1226
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:53,000
Speaker 1: They enforce anti paramilitary laws against them, They dissolve local cells,

1227
01:07:53,040 --> 01:07:56,040
Speaker 1: they imprison many leaders and members, and by October the

1228
01:07:56,160 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 1: organization is essentially defunct. Now no such action were taken

1229
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:02,720
Speaker 1: against the black Shirts, and as a result, by the

1230
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:05,680
Speaker 1: end of nineteen twenty one, the Mussolini's Fascist Party had

1231
01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:08,560
Speaker 1: more than a quarter of a million members or member

1232
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:11,600
Speaker 1: or something like that. Um, this is one of those

1233
01:08:11,600 --> 01:08:15,040
Speaker 1: situations where like, Yeah, your house is getting broken into

1234
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:18,679
Speaker 1: and you called a police and the police arrest you. Yeah,

1235
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:21,080
Speaker 1: like bam, this is my house. Like I'm telling you,

1236
01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:24,719
Speaker 1: I'm not the problem. I don't understand this. I'm telling

1237
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:26,280
Speaker 1: you this is the issue, and I We're going to

1238
01:08:26,320 --> 01:08:29,599
Speaker 1: book them. Dano. It's like, oh, man like I feel like,

1239
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:31,200
Speaker 1: I don't know, that's what it sounded like to me.

1240
01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:34,800
Speaker 1: I'm like, you're trading the wronghood right now. Yeah, the

1241
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:37,960
Speaker 1: police cracked down pretty in. The army cracked down exclusively

1242
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:40,960
Speaker 1: on the anti fascists, and the fascists are allowed to

1243
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:43,880
Speaker 1: continue to organize. And they said, like they used the

1244
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:46,000
Speaker 1: same laws against them they could have used on the

1245
01:08:46,040 --> 01:08:48,599
Speaker 1: fascist for having the black shirts. They just don't choose

1246
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:51,479
Speaker 1: the shoose. And the part that don't make sense and

1247
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:54,800
Speaker 1: continues to not make sense is, like you said, the

1248
01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:58,880
Speaker 1: fascists are telling you the platform, this is our plan.

1249
01:08:59,320 --> 01:09:04,519
Speaker 1: We feel overthrow you and put all our guys in power.

1250
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:10,400
Speaker 1: And that's our dude, that's our plan. Oh you want

1251
01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:14,280
Speaker 1: our side, okay, cool? Like yeah, it's because they it's

1252
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:17,080
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's because hatred of the left

1253
01:09:17,640 --> 01:09:21,559
Speaker 1: unites the fascists and the people who wouldn't necessarily be

1254
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:24,439
Speaker 1: whole hog in on fascism but are because they hate

1255
01:09:24,439 --> 01:09:27,280
Speaker 1: the left, which is you know why this this keeps

1256
01:09:27,320 --> 01:09:32,120
Speaker 1: happening and why um yeah, it's it's it's frustrating we

1257
01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:34,519
Speaker 1: deal with versions of the same problem today and this

1258
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:37,599
Speaker 1: is why I don't suggest people who are talking about like, well,

1259
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:39,360
Speaker 1: in the wake of the sixth we need a new

1260
01:09:39,479 --> 01:09:42,080
Speaker 1: anti domestic terrorism statutes like that's only going to be

1261
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:44,600
Speaker 1: used on the left, like they'll do. They'll use it

1262
01:09:44,720 --> 01:09:46,600
Speaker 1: once on a couple of proud boys, and then it

1263
01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:49,479
Speaker 1: will be used against leftists for decades. That's the way

1264
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:52,559
Speaker 1: it's going to happen. And Muslims, you know, anyone who's

1265
01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:57,680
Speaker 1: not a white conservative man. So as we know, the

1266
01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:05,680
Speaker 1: problem is white people play in Italy, white people basically

1267
01:10:05,720 --> 01:10:11,920
Speaker 1: everybody's white. So that's really pretty easy to say. Now. Yeah,

1268
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:14,960
Speaker 1: so I'm just kidding bhy the bastards listeners, I'm just kidding.

1269
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:17,679
Speaker 1: I'm much more nuanced than that. I'm not kidding behind

1270
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:26,479
Speaker 1: the bastards listeners. So uh. N early nineteen twenty two,

1271
01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:31,160
Speaker 1: the anti fascist resistance has been heavily like not completely eliminated,

1272
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:34,960
Speaker 1: but very badly broken. Um. The fascists are ascend that

1273
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:37,400
Speaker 1: they have hundreds of thousands of members, they have elected

1274
01:10:37,479 --> 01:10:40,519
Speaker 1: leaders in government. Um. Now again they're kind of middle

1275
01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:43,280
Speaker 1: rung when it came to their actual number of elected leaders.

1276
01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:46,240
Speaker 1: They're not in charge at all. But Benito didn't care

1277
01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:50,040
Speaker 1: about how many actual elected deputies, they said. He famously stated,

1278
01:10:50,200 --> 01:10:53,760
Speaker 1: I prefer fifty tho rifles to fifty thou votes. What

1279
01:10:53,960 --> 01:10:56,479
Speaker 1: mattered to him was having a presence in the halls

1280
01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:58,719
Speaker 1: of power, which would enable him to get those rifles

1281
01:10:58,720 --> 01:11:01,519
Speaker 1: on his side. And if course, the government's already shown

1282
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:04,559
Speaker 1: that they're going to let him a crew rifles while

1283
01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:08,320
Speaker 1: they stopped his opponents from getting rivals. Yeah. Now, Mussolini

1284
01:11:08,439 --> 01:11:10,800
Speaker 1: starts in nineteen twenty two, sketching out the dimensions of

1285
01:11:10,840 --> 01:11:13,600
Speaker 1: an ambitious and daring plan for a power grap He

1286
01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:16,240
Speaker 1: had spent the last year so placing strategic groups of

1287
01:11:16,240 --> 01:11:19,519
Speaker 1: fascists around the country, replacing shattered left wing trade unions

1288
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:22,799
Speaker 1: with their fascist equivalent, which allowed him to organize postal workers,

1289
01:11:22,840 --> 01:11:25,920
Speaker 1: cab drivers, and other working communities. He expanded the black

1290
01:11:25,960 --> 01:11:28,320
Speaker 1: Shirts into a force of tens of thousands, a veritable

1291
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:32,639
Speaker 1: paramilitary army. On October sixteenth, nineteen twenty two, he convened

1292
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:35,719
Speaker 1: a meeting in Milan with his most trusted deputies, including

1293
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:38,120
Speaker 1: the three commanders of the Black Shirts and two retired

1294
01:11:38,120 --> 01:11:40,880
Speaker 1: Italian Army generals. He announced that he was planning to

1295
01:11:41,000 --> 01:11:43,800
Speaker 1: organize a mass march on Rome. He would gather a

1296
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:45,960
Speaker 1: force of tens of thousands of black shirts and march

1297
01:11:46,040 --> 01:11:49,120
Speaker 1: to occupy the capital and force a change of government.

1298
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:52,080
Speaker 1: At this stage, Mussolini did not think that he was

1299
01:11:52,120 --> 01:11:53,880
Speaker 1: going to be the head of that government. Instead, his

1300
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:56,920
Speaker 1: goal was to force a coalition a liberal prime minister

1301
01:11:57,080 --> 01:12:02,080
Speaker 1: with five fascist ministers basically like um cabinet secretaries kind

1302
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:04,280
Speaker 1: of who would be the real power behind the scenes.

1303
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:06,160
Speaker 1: So he wanted to have a liberal like in front

1304
01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:09,600
Speaker 1: and have it all be run by fascists, right, Okay,

1305
01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:12,720
Speaker 1: So the actual inspiration for the March on Rome came

1306
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:15,759
Speaker 1: not from Mussolini but from the secretary of the National

1307
01:12:15,800 --> 01:12:20,760
Speaker 1: Fascist Party, Michelle Bianci. Bianci wanted an armed fascist insurrection

1308
01:12:20,800 --> 01:12:23,400
Speaker 1: to force the liberal ruling class to hand over power

1309
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:26,160
Speaker 1: to Mussolini himself, rather than even paying lip service to

1310
01:12:26,160 --> 01:12:29,759
Speaker 1: the idea of liberal democracy, and Bianci eventually like convinced

1311
01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:32,439
Speaker 1: everyone to go with his plan. Now true to form,

1312
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:34,960
Speaker 1: Mussolini took credit for it, later claiming that the march.

1313
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:36,600
Speaker 1: The plan for the March on Rome had come to

1314
01:12:36,680 --> 01:12:39,240
Speaker 1: him after a rally in September when his supporters had

1315
01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:42,479
Speaker 1: chanted to Rome to Rome, But in any case, by

1316
01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:45,679
Speaker 1: October of nineteen twenty two. He's ready to do this ship.

1317
01:12:46,320 --> 01:12:49,640
Speaker 1: So Mussolini gives a speech to about sixty his followers

1318
01:12:49,640 --> 01:12:52,880
Speaker 1: at a fascist congress in Naples on October and he

1319
01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:56,200
Speaker 1: tells them our program is simple. We want to rule

1320
01:12:56,320 --> 01:12:59,559
Speaker 1: Italy now. As he spoke on the twenty four units

1321
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:01,960
Speaker 1: of his acture, its we're fanning out to occupy key

1322
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:05,120
Speaker 1: locations around Italy in preparation for this march on Rome.

1323
01:13:05,600 --> 01:13:09,400
Speaker 1: In all, some twenty six thousand fascist paramilitaries assembled with

1324
01:13:09,439 --> 01:13:13,200
Speaker 1: illegal arms and ammunition from the Warfare History Network quote.

1325
01:13:13,760 --> 01:13:16,680
Speaker 1: Illicit stores of arms and ammunition were received secretly from

1326
01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:20,080
Speaker 1: sympathetic police stations, and some army barracks, well armories, and

1327
01:13:20,080 --> 01:13:23,719
Speaker 1: even museums were raided for antique firearms. The overall array

1328
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:28,240
Speaker 1: of weaponry included shotguns, muskets, powdered loaded pistols, golf clubs, sites,

1329
01:13:28,320 --> 01:13:32,360
Speaker 1: garden hose, tree roots, table legs, dynamite sticks, dried salt, codfish,

1330
01:13:32,360 --> 01:13:37,120
Speaker 1: and even an ox's jawbone. What just whatever they can

1331
01:13:37,160 --> 01:13:39,800
Speaker 1: beat someone with. If they can't get a gun, it's

1332
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:43,160
Speaker 1: anything they can hit someone with. And imagine an antique

1333
01:13:43,160 --> 01:13:49,200
Speaker 1: weapon already in that's an old gun that's an old

1334
01:13:49,240 --> 01:13:53,599
Speaker 1: gun boy. Yeah, it's just whatever they can get your hands.

1335
01:13:53,840 --> 01:13:55,679
Speaker 1: So that was you actually answered one of the questions

1336
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:58,000
Speaker 1: I had. I was like, so, if they're marching to Rome,

1337
01:13:58,080 --> 01:14:00,160
Speaker 1: where are they coming from? So they coming from every where.

1338
01:14:00,200 --> 01:14:02,679
Speaker 1: He's in Naples right now. They come in from everywhere.

1339
01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:05,719
Speaker 1: They are coming from everywhere, and they have horses and carts,

1340
01:14:05,720 --> 01:14:07,760
Speaker 1: trucks and wagons. They even have a race car with

1341
01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:11,200
Speaker 1: the machine gun mounted to it, and they have guys

1342
01:14:11,280 --> 01:14:15,960
Speaker 1: riding on trains. That style of finesse. There's some style

1343
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:21,040
Speaker 1: in the machine gun races. And a lot of people

1344
01:14:21,040 --> 01:14:26,360
Speaker 1: are just marching on foot too. Now, obviously this is

1345
01:14:26,400 --> 01:14:28,920
Speaker 1: a cause for concern for some people in the government.

1346
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:31,799
Speaker 1: Two days after the Naples speech, former Italian Prime Minister

1347
01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:35,559
Speaker 1: Antonio Silandra becomes aware of Mussolini's plans and he warns

1348
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:38,440
Speaker 1: the current prime minister that the Fascist leader was organizing

1349
01:14:38,439 --> 01:14:42,519
Speaker 1: an armed march on the capitol Cilandra's intelligence told him

1350
01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:45,680
Speaker 1: that Mussolini planned to demand the prime minister's resignation and

1351
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:48,200
Speaker 1: demand that he be appointed head of the government instead.

1352
01:14:48,760 --> 01:14:51,559
Speaker 1: So the prime minister, obviously is also worried by this.

1353
01:14:51,640 --> 01:14:53,280
Speaker 1: He goes to the King with this warning, and he

1354
01:14:53,320 --> 01:14:55,439
Speaker 1: asks the King for permission to use the police in

1355
01:14:55,520 --> 01:15:00,120
Speaker 1: military to suppress the fascists. The King refuses. So the

1356
01:15:00,160 --> 01:15:01,960
Speaker 1: reason the King says no is that he had just

1357
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:05,800
Speaker 1: sat down with his Minister of War, General Armando Diaz. Now,

1358
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:08,880
Speaker 1: the general, who was not quite well, who was basically

1359
01:15:08,920 --> 01:15:11,479
Speaker 1: a fascist, tells the King that if he asks the

1360
01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:15,000
Speaker 1: army to stop Mussolini quote, the army will do its duty,

1361
01:15:15,240 --> 01:15:16,920
Speaker 1: but it would be better not to put it to

1362
01:15:16,920 --> 01:15:20,400
Speaker 1: the test. Basically, he's like another the army likes these

1363
01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:24,599
Speaker 1: guys that you really shouldn't You really shouldn't try so,

1364
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:28,200
Speaker 1: King Victor Emmanuel the Third, the little Sword was not

1365
01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:33,639
Speaker 1: like an ideological fascist. I know, it's very silly. Oh man,

1366
01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:37,759
Speaker 1: what if that was his like tender profile, a little

1367
01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:40,800
Speaker 1: little sword. He's not a fascist in the sense that

1368
01:15:40,840 --> 01:15:43,760
Speaker 1: he doesn't believe in fascism. He believes in a monarchy,

1369
01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:46,840
Speaker 1: and more specifically, he believes in a monarchy where he's

1370
01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:49,960
Speaker 1: the monarch. Now by nineteen twenty two, the Kingdom of

1371
01:15:49,960 --> 01:15:53,400
Speaker 1: Italy is in bad financial straits. World War One had

1372
01:15:53,400 --> 01:15:55,720
Speaker 1: been a disaster for the country. The Great like not

1373
01:15:55,800 --> 01:15:58,479
Speaker 1: the Great Depression, but like an economic collapse has hit

1374
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:00,320
Speaker 1: Europe as a result of the end of a war.

1375
01:16:00,640 --> 01:16:03,960
Speaker 1: It's horrible in Munich. In this period of time to write.

1376
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:06,760
Speaker 1: Political violence in the streets had reached a fever pitch,

1377
01:16:06,880 --> 01:16:09,200
Speaker 1: largely thanks to Mussolini's Black Shirts, and the king was

1378
01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:12,040
Speaker 1: afraid there might be a civil war. More than anything,

1379
01:16:12,200 --> 01:16:15,800
Speaker 1: he was worried about the rising Italian left. The Socialist

1380
01:16:15,800 --> 01:16:18,120
Speaker 1: Party had a hundred and forty six members in the

1381
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:21,120
Speaker 1: Chamber of Deputies and the Communists had eleven, giving them

1382
01:16:21,160 --> 01:16:25,479
Speaker 1: together nearly five times as much elected representation as the fascists. Now,

1383
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:29,200
Speaker 1: Communists and socialists aren't big fans of kings, and Victor

1384
01:16:29,280 --> 01:16:33,080
Speaker 1: Emmanuel crudely calculated the fascist would let him continue to

1385
01:16:33,120 --> 01:16:37,800
Speaker 1: be the king. He also, and this is important, calculated

1386
01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:40,559
Speaker 1: that the middle class would back the fascists if it

1387
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:43,799
Speaker 1: meants crushing the left, and he was right on both counts.

1388
01:16:44,160 --> 01:16:46,400
Speaker 1: Some of the king's generals did push back and demand

1389
01:16:46,439 --> 01:16:48,680
Speaker 1: he signed orders to send the army out after the

1390
01:16:48,680 --> 01:16:51,680
Speaker 1: black Shirts. The King threatened to abdicate at this and

1391
01:16:51,800 --> 01:16:54,320
Speaker 1: sinuating that this would put Italy in the same position

1392
01:16:54,360 --> 01:16:57,280
Speaker 1: as Russia had been in when the Czar abdicated. Basically

1393
01:16:57,600 --> 01:17:00,000
Speaker 1: if you forced me to use the army and these fascists,

1394
01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:02,439
Speaker 1: I will leave the throne. And you saw what happened

1395
01:17:02,439 --> 01:17:10,639
Speaker 1: to Russia when you don't want those scary Bolsheviks being insurance. Yeah,

1396
01:17:10,840 --> 01:17:14,360
Speaker 1: nang you It's like that's I see, that's why, like

1397
01:17:15,120 --> 01:17:16,880
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, that's to me, that's

1398
01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:22,760
Speaker 1: like the problem with like when you only understand the

1399
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:29,320
Speaker 1: world via like power broke, you're brokering in my you know, um,

1400
01:17:29,479 --> 01:17:33,400
Speaker 1: like in my mind, like I take two weird comparison,

1401
01:17:33,439 --> 01:17:36,400
Speaker 1: But if you take like Mike Pence's like position right now,

1402
01:17:36,479 --> 01:17:42,639
Speaker 1: like them or President being impeached, it's like he if

1403
01:17:42,680 --> 01:17:45,120
Speaker 1: for lack of better term, either way, he's a bit

1404
01:17:45,960 --> 01:17:49,280
Speaker 1: because it's like, first of all, it's not like it's

1405
01:17:49,280 --> 01:17:51,200
Speaker 1: not like Donald Trump has ever respected you, because you

1406
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:53,320
Speaker 1: do what the hell he tells you to do, you

1407
01:17:53,320 --> 01:17:55,400
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. So it's like this man, this

1408
01:17:55,439 --> 01:17:58,519
Speaker 1: man was gonna let these they was yelling to kill you,

1409
01:17:59,320 --> 01:18:02,920
Speaker 1: and he didn't stop it. And you ain't do ship, Mike,

1410
01:18:03,040 --> 01:18:04,840
Speaker 1: you ain't do ship. You let this man and you're

1411
01:18:04,840 --> 01:18:07,920
Speaker 1: still gonna back this man. You're a bitch. What I'm

1412
01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:10,679
Speaker 1: saying at the one time he publicly disagrees with you,

1413
01:18:10,920 --> 01:18:13,880
Speaker 1: and then he calls for your head and they want

1414
01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:15,880
Speaker 1: to take it. And then and if they got the

1415
01:18:15,960 --> 01:18:18,800
Speaker 1: chance there what and you didn't say nothing? You're a bitch.

1416
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:20,720
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. So it's like, I mean,

1417
01:18:21,160 --> 01:18:23,160
Speaker 1: I'm saying that tonguey, you can understand what I'm trying

1418
01:18:23,160 --> 01:18:25,200
Speaker 1: to say. Yeah, so it's like you're okay. So then

1419
01:18:25,520 --> 01:18:27,840
Speaker 1: so then Nancy Pelosi and and and with it with

1420
01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:30,880
Speaker 1: the Democrats, with the impeachment being and so it's almost

1421
01:18:30,920 --> 01:18:33,519
Speaker 1: like them saying, yo, get your boy before we do, right,

1422
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:38,200
Speaker 1: So then so now and and then if he doesn't,

1423
01:18:38,840 --> 01:18:43,080
Speaker 1: if he doesn't, if he doesn't stop the impeachment, you're

1424
01:18:43,080 --> 01:18:45,360
Speaker 1: a bitch again, you know what I'm saying. If you

1425
01:18:45,400 --> 01:18:48,960
Speaker 1: don't call for the moment, you're a bit, you feel me.

1426
01:18:49,120 --> 01:18:51,840
Speaker 1: So it's just like, no matter what the moral little

1427
01:18:51,880 --> 01:18:53,760
Speaker 1: story is, you should have never signed up to play

1428
01:18:53,760 --> 01:18:56,280
Speaker 1: with this man, you know what I'm saying. So it

1429
01:18:56,360 --> 01:18:58,920
Speaker 1: shouldn't have got here in the first place. Because all this,

1430
01:18:59,200 --> 01:19:03,080
Speaker 1: all these people understand it's power brokering. So when you so,

1431
01:19:03,280 --> 01:19:06,880
Speaker 1: if you King lit Sword, you feel me, you set

1432
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:09,959
Speaker 1: yourself up to a situation where these people only understand

1433
01:19:10,000 --> 01:19:14,960
Speaker 1: power either way, you're a bit you know what I'm saying, Like,

1434
01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:17,920
Speaker 1: I just I don't. I mean, I'm I hate saying

1435
01:19:17,960 --> 01:19:20,200
Speaker 1: it like that. I just because it's like I'm not

1436
01:19:20,240 --> 01:19:23,639
Speaker 1: trying to like throw shrapnel towards you know, I'm saying

1437
01:19:23,680 --> 01:19:26,320
Speaker 1: a derogatory terms sword female, you know what I'm saying.

1438
01:19:26,320 --> 01:19:28,040
Speaker 1: That's not what I'm trying to say. But I am saying,

1439
01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:31,720
Speaker 1: just in street terms, that's what we mean. There's you

1440
01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:35,920
Speaker 1: can't you've put yourself in a position where you can't

1441
01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:43,960
Speaker 1: leave this unscathed. Yep. Yeah, And it's yeah, that's kind

1442
01:19:43,960 --> 01:19:46,760
Speaker 1: of where we are here. And so the king and

1443
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:51,960
Speaker 1: also a lot of liberal elected leaders are like, Okay,

1444
01:19:52,040 --> 01:19:54,040
Speaker 1: let's like let's let these people in. Let's let them

1445
01:19:54,080 --> 01:19:57,200
Speaker 1: do it. They're not as scary as these leftists. So

1446
01:19:57,280 --> 01:20:00,760
Speaker 1: let's left the fascists into the government. Can imagine being

1447
01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:04,280
Speaker 1: you imagine being a king, whereas like my bloodline go

1448
01:20:04,400 --> 01:20:07,200
Speaker 1: back to the fifteen hunt. It's and I'm no one

1449
01:20:07,840 --> 01:20:10,679
Speaker 1: that's about to lose the I'm not gonna lose this crown,

1450
01:20:10,960 --> 01:20:13,600
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. So I get the calculation

1451
01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:16,400
Speaker 1: it's just you're it's just you're the you're the punk

1452
01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:19,679
Speaker 1: in this. Yeah, you're starting the ball of fascism rolling

1453
01:20:19,720 --> 01:20:21,720
Speaker 1: in Europe because you want to keep it thrown and

1454
01:20:21,760 --> 01:20:24,640
Speaker 1: because a lot of other elected leaders. So when his

1455
01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:27,360
Speaker 1: so his prime minister resigns when it becomes clear that

1456
01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:29,240
Speaker 1: the king is not going to stop the fascist and

1457
01:20:29,280 --> 01:20:32,240
Speaker 1: a bunch of former prime ministers, many of them liberals,

1458
01:20:32,560 --> 01:20:35,120
Speaker 1: start petitioning the king to make them the prime minister

1459
01:20:35,200 --> 01:20:37,679
Speaker 1: again so that they can make Mussolini their vice minister

1460
01:20:37,760 --> 01:20:41,480
Speaker 1: to play kate the fascists. So like again, establishment politicians

1461
01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:44,519
Speaker 1: cannot wait to make a deal with the fascists, like,

1462
01:20:44,800 --> 01:20:49,360
Speaker 1: couldn't do it fast enough? Um, Yeah. The King says

1463
01:20:49,400 --> 01:20:52,320
Speaker 1: no though, because the King has decided that Mussolini's going

1464
01:20:52,400 --> 01:20:54,400
Speaker 1: to be the new premier, right that he's just going

1465
01:20:54,439 --> 01:20:56,479
Speaker 1: to give him straight to the big job. And while

1466
01:20:56,520 --> 01:20:58,879
Speaker 1: all this is going on, the black Shirts are marching,

1467
01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:02,160
Speaker 1: so you're later Mussolini would claim to have marched on

1468
01:21:02,200 --> 01:21:04,320
Speaker 1: foot with his soldiers all the way to the capital.

1469
01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:06,640
Speaker 1: The reality is that he stayed in Milan for the

1470
01:21:06,680 --> 01:21:08,600
Speaker 1: first day. A few days of the march, he was

1471
01:21:08,640 --> 01:21:12,840
Speaker 1: seen at the theater just yeah, stay back here just

1472
01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:15,439
Speaker 1: in case. Well, it's like how Donald Trump tells his

1473
01:21:15,560 --> 01:21:17,639
Speaker 1: crowd to like march on the Capitol and then goes

1474
01:21:17,680 --> 01:21:22,000
Speaker 1: back home. He's like, that's the problem, Like, do y'all

1475
01:21:22,040 --> 01:21:26,160
Speaker 1: see this man behind bulletproof glass. They've got guns over there.

1476
01:21:26,200 --> 01:21:28,880
Speaker 1: I'm not doing that, you know, Like why you followed

1477
01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:31,599
Speaker 1: his man? Yeah? I feel like when you might get

1478
01:21:31,640 --> 01:21:34,840
Speaker 1: shot anyway? Good luck? Yeah, yeah, I'm good. Don't you

1479
01:21:34,880 --> 01:21:39,719
Speaker 1: see his glass? You? Yeah? So? Uh yeah. He stays

1480
01:21:39,720 --> 01:21:41,960
Speaker 1: in Milan. He keeps a getaway car gassed up and

1481
01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:44,920
Speaker 1: ready prepared to flee to Switzerland, actually more ready to

1482
01:21:44,920 --> 01:21:47,040
Speaker 1: flee for Switzerland than he is to actually go to

1483
01:21:47,120 --> 01:21:49,200
Speaker 1: Rome because he's sure they're going to crack down on this.

1484
01:21:49,240 --> 01:21:52,160
Speaker 1: He's just making a gamble. He doesn't think it's gonna work.

1485
01:21:52,960 --> 01:21:56,720
Speaker 1: Plan B. Eventually, though, after several days, he realizes that

1486
01:21:56,760 --> 01:21:59,040
Speaker 1: the king is not going to institute martial law to

1487
01:21:59,080 --> 01:22:01,360
Speaker 1: stop the march, and he'd won. Like this is a

1488
01:22:01,439 --> 01:22:03,760
Speaker 1: dawning realization while he's in Milan that like, oh shit,

1489
01:22:04,200 --> 01:22:07,880
Speaker 1: we're getting away with this. So that has to be

1490
01:22:08,000 --> 01:22:11,640
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. He's very there's some similarities where he was

1491
01:22:11,680 --> 01:22:15,879
Speaker 1: like wait, wait, wait, what wait, what kind of shocked

1492
01:22:15,920 --> 01:22:19,120
Speaker 1: that this had worked? Mussolini starts scrambling to dress himself

1493
01:22:19,160 --> 01:22:21,759
Speaker 1: up as the revolutionary leader. It now kind of seemed

1494
01:22:21,800 --> 01:22:23,920
Speaker 1: like he was. And I'm gonna quote now from the

1495
01:22:23,960 --> 01:22:29,080
Speaker 1: Warfare Historical Network. Mussolini's own Milan newspaper office, where he

1496
01:22:29,120 --> 01:22:32,040
Speaker 1: was staying was barricaded with huge rolls of newsprint, paper

1497
01:22:32,080 --> 01:22:34,680
Speaker 1: and barbed wire, and guarded by a curious mix of

1498
01:22:34,720 --> 01:22:38,240
Speaker 1: fascist police and army troops. His second floor offices featured

1499
01:22:38,280 --> 01:22:41,120
Speaker 1: hand grenades and desk trays, and the fluster Ducca himself

1500
01:22:41,360 --> 01:22:44,360
Speaker 1: was seen brandishing a rifle. Melodramatically, he wrote in his

1501
01:22:44,439 --> 01:22:48,160
Speaker 1: nineteen autobiography, there was a rapid exchange of shots. I

1502
01:22:48,200 --> 01:22:50,519
Speaker 1: had my rifle loaded and went down to defend the doors.

1503
01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:53,679
Speaker 1: Bullets whizzed around my ears. This is all a lie.

1504
01:22:54,040 --> 01:22:56,200
Speaker 1: The reality is that the Milan police chief refused to

1505
01:22:56,240 --> 01:22:58,759
Speaker 1: even arrest him. The mayor and commander of the Royal

1506
01:22:58,840 --> 01:23:01,320
Speaker 1: Guard asked for a true with the fascists and withdrew

1507
01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:04,479
Speaker 1: their men from around his office. Um, there was no

1508
01:23:04,760 --> 01:23:09,120
Speaker 1: real crackdown taken on Mussolini directly whatsoever. Now, while his

1509
01:23:09,160 --> 01:23:13,160
Speaker 1: militia march, they took over telephone switchboards, telegraph offices, water works,

1510
01:23:13,160 --> 01:23:16,600
Speaker 1: and other government buildings. Um very little resistance to this.

1511
01:23:16,640 --> 01:23:19,280
Speaker 1: About seven black Shirts are shot dead by the army

1512
01:23:19,360 --> 01:23:22,479
Speaker 1: in various skirmishes um during this period of time, and

1513
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:25,120
Speaker 1: about a dozen people die over the course of the

1514
01:23:25,160 --> 01:23:28,880
Speaker 1: march on Rome. Mussolini gets increasingly confident. His phone calls

1515
01:23:28,920 --> 01:23:30,880
Speaker 1: start coming in from the Royal Palace from the king,

1516
01:23:31,080 --> 01:23:33,240
Speaker 1: but he refuses the first three calls from the king

1517
01:23:33,280 --> 01:23:35,840
Speaker 1: because Mussolini does understand how power works, and he knows

1518
01:23:35,880 --> 01:23:38,120
Speaker 1: that when you got him on the ropes, you want him,

1519
01:23:38,160 --> 01:23:40,479
Speaker 1: you got to bring him a little bit closer, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1520
01:23:40,479 --> 01:23:42,280
Speaker 1: we want to make a call. I'm not gonna take

1521
01:23:42,320 --> 01:23:44,160
Speaker 1: that first call. I'm gonna take that second of that.

1522
01:23:44,960 --> 01:23:47,559
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Get him close, get him close.

1523
01:23:47,640 --> 01:23:51,800
Speaker 1: That's how you do it. So eventually he decided that

1524
01:23:51,840 --> 01:23:54,519
Speaker 1: his men had occupied enough territory that he felt confident

1525
01:23:54,560 --> 01:23:56,280
Speaker 1: the king was not going to turn around and shoot

1526
01:23:56,320 --> 01:23:58,000
Speaker 1: him as a trader if he showed up in Rome.

1527
01:23:58,360 --> 01:24:01,080
Speaker 1: So on the night of October twenty nine, Benito Mussolini

1528
01:24:01,120 --> 01:24:03,840
Speaker 1: took a sleeper train from Milan to Rome for the

1529
01:24:03,880 --> 01:24:06,280
Speaker 1: soon to be dictator. The march on Rome consisted of

1530
01:24:06,280 --> 01:24:08,920
Speaker 1: a single fourteen hour train ride, so he does no marching.

1531
01:24:09,080 --> 01:24:11,320
Speaker 1: He takes a train right into the capitol while his

1532
01:24:11,400 --> 01:24:16,160
Speaker 1: guys are marching and fighting. No, I'm not marching to Rome.

1533
01:24:16,479 --> 01:24:24,400
Speaker 1: Are you talking about marching? We had trains now. Benito

1534
01:24:24,479 --> 01:24:27,000
Speaker 1: would later lie about every major aspect of the March

1535
01:24:27,080 --> 01:24:29,400
Speaker 1: on Rome. The reality is that about seven black Shirts

1536
01:24:29,400 --> 01:24:31,760
Speaker 1: again were shot and a dozen people died. Once they

1537
01:24:31,760 --> 01:24:34,360
Speaker 1: were in power, the fascists claimed that three thousand people

1538
01:24:34,400 --> 01:24:37,960
Speaker 1: had been killed in vicious fighting for control of the capital. Again,

1539
01:24:38,320 --> 01:24:40,880
Speaker 1: just a lie to make it seem heroic. When he

1540
01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:44,799
Speaker 1: finally met the King, Mussolini's first words were, your majesty,

1541
01:24:44,840 --> 01:24:47,720
Speaker 1: will forgive my attire. I have come from the battlefield.

1542
01:24:49,880 --> 01:24:56,640
Speaker 1: You came from Milan, dude, Yo, two points for style. Yeah, no,

1543
01:24:56,760 --> 01:24:59,479
Speaker 1: it's a good line. It's a good came from battle.

1544
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:05,559
Speaker 1: Uh the buffet like, where are you fighting? Where I

1545
01:25:05,720 --> 01:25:10,439
Speaker 1: told the army not to fight you? Yeah? So Victor

1546
01:25:10,520 --> 01:25:13,639
Speaker 1: Emmanuel has to have known Mussolini was lying about that,

1547
01:25:13,920 --> 01:25:16,679
Speaker 1: but he liked Mussolini. He considered him a quote man

1548
01:25:16,760 --> 01:25:19,759
Speaker 1: of purpose, and he appointed him as Premier, Foreign Minister

1549
01:25:19,880 --> 01:25:23,400
Speaker 1: and Interior minister. On October thirty one, the day after

1550
01:25:23,520 --> 01:25:26,719
Speaker 1: Mussolini's meeting with the King, his black shirts finally arrived

1551
01:25:26,720 --> 01:25:29,439
Speaker 1: in Rome. He had them turn around immediately and marched

1552
01:25:29,479 --> 01:25:31,760
Speaker 1: to the train station so they could go home. As

1553
01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:35,799
Speaker 1: the fascist columns withdrew, the king declared, Mussolini has saved

1554
01:25:35,840 --> 01:25:47,800
Speaker 1: the nation. That is hilarious. Yeah, I recap that bus

1555
01:25:47,880 --> 01:25:55,800
Speaker 1: set I sent y'all, got what I needed, then I

1556
01:25:55,880 --> 01:26:00,760
Speaker 1: sent you back you saying, I said, it's great. It's

1557
01:26:00,760 --> 01:26:03,000
Speaker 1: a great position to be in if you're Mussolini. He's

1558
01:26:03,040 --> 01:26:06,000
Speaker 1: really right and high right now, because a lot of

1559
01:26:06,040 --> 01:26:09,200
Speaker 1: Italians agreed that he'd saved the nation, because people are

1560
01:26:09,520 --> 01:26:12,200
Speaker 1: really fucking dumb. And again you have to assume very

1561
01:26:12,200 --> 01:26:16,479
Speaker 1: little access to accurate news about what was happening antennas now,

1562
01:26:16,600 --> 01:26:19,640
Speaker 1: the Roman middle class was overjoyed by the lack of

1563
01:26:19,760 --> 01:26:22,400
Speaker 1: violence and by the fact that the dreaded anarchy and

1564
01:26:22,439 --> 01:26:25,240
Speaker 1: the threat of a communist revolution had been avoided. The

1565
01:26:25,320 --> 01:26:28,479
Speaker 1: stock market rose on news of of Mussolini's power grab,

1566
01:26:28,760 --> 01:26:31,560
Speaker 1: and I should note here that on January six, the

1567
01:26:31,600 --> 01:26:34,960
Speaker 1: Russell two thousand index of small capitalization stocks rose three

1568
01:26:34,960 --> 01:26:38,559
Speaker 1: point seven percent, while the s and p five point

1569
01:26:38,640 --> 01:26:40,960
Speaker 1: six percent. Now, this had less to do with the

1570
01:26:40,960 --> 01:26:43,160
Speaker 1: stock market loving the fact that there had been an

1571
01:26:43,200 --> 01:26:45,760
Speaker 1: attempt to take over the capital and more to do

1572
01:26:45,800 --> 01:26:49,240
Speaker 1: with it loving stability, because January six ended with everybody

1573
01:26:49,240 --> 01:26:51,640
Speaker 1: repudiating the president and the certainty that there would be

1574
01:26:51,720 --> 01:26:54,559
Speaker 1: a transfer of power. And but that's kind of the

1575
01:26:54,600 --> 01:26:57,599
Speaker 1: same reason why the stock markets raised when Mussolini like

1576
01:26:57,760 --> 01:27:02,479
Speaker 1: took power. It's because someone was in power, there was certainty. Yeah,

1577
01:27:02,680 --> 01:27:04,840
Speaker 1: that's that. I love that. I love that you brought

1578
01:27:04,840 --> 01:27:06,880
Speaker 1: that up, because like if you if you want to

1579
01:27:06,880 --> 01:27:12,000
Speaker 1: talk about you know, big corporations, you know one percenter's

1580
01:27:12,120 --> 01:27:19,600
Speaker 1: high money, they are still beholden to a stable government

1581
01:27:19,800 --> 01:27:25,200
Speaker 1: that will um like affirm and support their contracts. Like

1582
01:27:25,240 --> 01:27:27,600
Speaker 1: if I got contracts all over the place and you

1583
01:27:27,680 --> 01:27:29,880
Speaker 1: breeched this contract, I want to be able to sue

1584
01:27:29,880 --> 01:27:31,360
Speaker 1: the crap out of you. So I gotta take you

1585
01:27:31,360 --> 01:27:32,599
Speaker 1: to a course that means I have to have a

1586
01:27:32,600 --> 01:27:37,639
Speaker 1: government stable enough that says so so so yeah so

1587
01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:42,040
Speaker 1: so so. It has no no moral value either way.

1588
01:27:42,160 --> 01:27:44,960
Speaker 1: I just need y'all to chill, and if and if

1589
01:27:45,000 --> 01:27:46,880
Speaker 1: and if there's somebody that can stop at you. Now

1590
01:27:46,920 --> 01:27:50,439
Speaker 1: that y'all agree, cool, I don't care what you agree with,

1591
01:27:50,680 --> 01:27:53,200
Speaker 1: just as long as y'all agree so that my money

1592
01:27:53,200 --> 01:27:57,200
Speaker 1: can keep coming. So that's that. That that that point

1593
01:27:57,280 --> 01:27:59,320
Speaker 1: about the stock market, that's dope, man. That that's the

1594
01:27:59,360 --> 01:28:02,200
Speaker 1: type of stuff that like, you know, I always always

1595
01:28:02,240 --> 01:28:04,600
Speaker 1: cringe any anytime any leader, I don't care who you

1596
01:28:04,640 --> 01:28:07,080
Speaker 1: are saying, well, the stock market rose. This is like man,

1597
01:28:07,360 --> 01:28:08,880
Speaker 1: like that guy, I gotta do not they just want

1598
01:28:08,920 --> 01:28:10,799
Speaker 1: you all to do. You know what I'm saying like that,

1599
01:28:10,800 --> 01:28:14,360
Speaker 1: that doesn't that's not the indicator that you that you

1600
01:28:14,520 --> 01:28:20,160
Speaker 1: say it is. Yep, it's not um and it's it's yeah,

1601
01:28:20,200 --> 01:28:22,360
Speaker 1: it's a sign. It's a sign that the people who

1602
01:28:22,439 --> 01:28:25,080
Speaker 1: are rich are confident they're going to continue to be rich.

1603
01:28:26,880 --> 01:28:30,559
Speaker 1: And that's that's that's where fascism's power traditionally comes from,

1604
01:28:30,600 --> 01:28:32,080
Speaker 1: and not as much from the rich as it does

1605
01:28:32,120 --> 01:28:35,080
Speaker 1: from the middle class. The middle class of Italy backed

1606
01:28:35,160 --> 01:28:40,160
Speaker 1: Mussolini for the same reason he meants stability. Right. Maybe

1607
01:28:40,160 --> 01:28:42,280
Speaker 1: they weren't all fascist. Most of them weren't. Most of

1608
01:28:42,280 --> 01:28:45,280
Speaker 1: them had never really like, hadn't supported the fascist prior

1609
01:28:45,320 --> 01:28:46,920
Speaker 1: to him coming into power, But now that he was

1610
01:28:46,920 --> 01:28:48,880
Speaker 1: in power, it means the communists aren't gonna met win.

1611
01:28:49,080 --> 01:28:51,120
Speaker 1: Means I'm not gonna lose my business. I'm not gonna

1612
01:28:51,160 --> 01:28:53,800
Speaker 1: lose like whatever like that because I'm in the middle

1613
01:28:53,800 --> 01:28:56,679
Speaker 1: clad got shipped to lose, right, that's what the middle classes,

1614
01:28:56,720 --> 01:29:00,960
Speaker 1: you're the ship to lose class um out. Yeah, the

1615
01:29:01,000 --> 01:29:03,320
Speaker 1: middle class was in Italy, as it has been in

1616
01:29:03,360 --> 01:29:05,880
Speaker 1: every country that's been taken over by fascists, the chief

1617
01:29:05,880 --> 01:29:09,240
Speaker 1: base of fascist support. Um And this is true again

1618
01:29:09,360 --> 01:29:12,320
Speaker 1: everywhere fascism gains political power. In March of two thousand

1619
01:29:12,360 --> 01:29:14,640
Speaker 1: and sixteen, and NBC survey found that only about a

1620
01:29:14,680 --> 01:29:17,559
Speaker 1: third of Trump supporters in the primaries had a household

1621
01:29:17,560 --> 01:29:19,960
Speaker 1: income at or below the national media and income of

1622
01:29:20,000 --> 01:29:23,360
Speaker 1: fifty dollars a year um and that stayed more or

1623
01:29:23,439 --> 01:29:26,160
Speaker 1: less the same for the election. Um And again you

1624
01:29:26,200 --> 01:29:28,960
Speaker 1: can look at the same kind of things happened in Germany. Um.

1625
01:29:29,240 --> 01:29:32,840
Speaker 1: He say it was the same class that supported him. Yeah,

1626
01:29:33,000 --> 01:29:36,640
Speaker 1: Like it's important. And again another thing I love you

1627
01:29:36,680 --> 01:29:38,880
Speaker 1: just brought up. Brought this up too, because it's like,

1628
01:29:39,320 --> 01:29:44,080
Speaker 1: when you're talking about somebody that lives below the poverty line,

1629
01:29:45,200 --> 01:29:49,120
Speaker 1: you don't have time to be listening to whatever the

1630
01:29:50,120 --> 01:29:52,840
Speaker 1: politicians are saying like, I'm trying to secure my next meal,

1631
01:29:53,600 --> 01:29:56,720
Speaker 1: So there's not a they don't you don't have the

1632
01:29:56,840 --> 01:30:01,760
Speaker 1: luxury to go lobby and and hands and do all

1633
01:30:01,800 --> 01:30:07,639
Speaker 1: the things that someone who has uh, you know, liquid capital,

1634
01:30:07,800 --> 01:30:10,240
Speaker 1: like leisure capital, be able to do. So that's the

1635
01:30:10,280 --> 01:30:12,800
Speaker 1: middle class, you know what I'm saying. So like so yeah,

1636
01:30:12,920 --> 01:30:15,120
Speaker 1: it's just yeah, it's same thing like us critique in

1637
01:30:15,160 --> 01:30:17,559
Speaker 1: our own silo to be like, man, don't you can't

1638
01:30:17,560 --> 01:30:19,360
Speaker 1: just call this you can't just say it was all

1639
01:30:19,439 --> 01:30:21,679
Speaker 1: these poor these poor was not put him in power

1640
01:30:21,760 --> 01:30:25,439
Speaker 1: because they hungry. They working, These poor people working, they

1641
01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:29,840
Speaker 1: got time for audience anything. It's the fucking what the

1642
01:30:29,880 --> 01:30:32,639
Speaker 1: fascists are saying to the middle class, to the comfortable.

1643
01:30:32,640 --> 01:30:34,800
Speaker 1: It is saying like, you see that poor motherfucker who

1644
01:30:34,840 --> 01:30:36,479
Speaker 1: doesn't have time to think about any of this because

1645
01:30:36,479 --> 01:30:38,840
Speaker 1: he's living hand in mouth. The communists are gonna make

1646
01:30:38,880 --> 01:30:41,960
Speaker 1: that be you. You know, that's the that's the fucking

1647
01:30:41,960 --> 01:30:47,200
Speaker 1: pitch um. And it works every time, or it works

1648
01:30:47,320 --> 01:30:50,160
Speaker 1: well enough that it becomes a problem every time. Maybe

1649
01:30:50,200 --> 01:30:53,200
Speaker 1: it's not gonna work this time. We'll fucking see um.

1650
01:30:53,240 --> 01:30:56,559
Speaker 1: Because Trump was leading middle class support in I don't

1651
01:30:56,560 --> 01:30:59,960
Speaker 1: know what he really was man. Yeah, so that's good.

1652
01:31:00,080 --> 01:31:02,519
Speaker 1: We owe that too. Behind the bastards, thank you. Yeah,

1653
01:31:02,520 --> 01:31:05,559
Speaker 1: I take total credit for Biden's victory. Thank you. So

1654
01:31:05,880 --> 01:31:11,040
Speaker 1: um so yeah. Fascism generally cloaks itself as a working

1655
01:31:11,080 --> 01:31:14,040
Speaker 1: class movement of laborers and hard men doing hard jobs.

1656
01:31:14,040 --> 01:31:16,680
Speaker 1: It's always the image, right, the imagery of like a

1657
01:31:16,680 --> 01:31:19,120
Speaker 1: guy working at a steel miller some ship. But that's

1658
01:31:19,160 --> 01:31:21,720
Speaker 1: not where their support actually comes from. The support of

1659
01:31:21,800 --> 01:31:24,839
Speaker 1: fascism comes from a lot of like the middle class

1660
01:31:24,880 --> 01:31:26,840
Speaker 1: and the a lot of the affluent, not all of

1661
01:31:26,840 --> 01:31:28,599
Speaker 1: the affluent, because a lot of the very rich are

1662
01:31:28,600 --> 01:31:31,120
Speaker 1: more establishment people. They're not gonna back. They'll back a

1663
01:31:31,200 --> 01:31:33,760
Speaker 1: fascist when they're in power because again, they don't want

1664
01:31:33,800 --> 01:31:36,479
Speaker 1: to lose their ships needs to build, Like yeah, they're

1665
01:31:36,560 --> 01:31:39,040
Speaker 1: they're up until it becomes clear the fascists are gonna

1666
01:31:39,040 --> 01:31:41,599
Speaker 1: win there, you know, they're gonna back whatever the order

1667
01:31:41,720 --> 01:31:45,600
Speaker 1: was previously. The middle class is scared and anxious and

1668
01:31:45,680 --> 01:31:48,360
Speaker 1: always being pushed from both directions, so they're the ones

1669
01:31:48,400 --> 01:31:51,080
Speaker 1: who really will go with a fascist. And the first

1670
01:31:51,160 --> 01:31:55,920
Speaker 1: person in history to really lay this out was Luigi Salvatorelli.

1671
01:31:56,280 --> 01:31:59,200
Speaker 1: Now he was an editorial writer for an anti fascist

1672
01:31:59,240 --> 01:32:02,680
Speaker 1: newspaper named La Stampa. I'm gonna quote now from an

1673
01:32:02,760 --> 01:32:05,439
Speaker 1: article on the March of Rome by scholar Emilio Gentile

1674
01:32:05,479 --> 01:32:08,559
Speaker 1: talking about Luigi Salvatarelli and how he came to this

1675
01:32:08,640 --> 01:32:12,640
Speaker 1: conclusion quote. A year before the March on Rome, Salvatarelli

1676
01:32:12,760 --> 01:32:16,519
Speaker 1: understood that fascism was a new revolutionary movement, and that

1677
01:32:16,600 --> 01:32:21,400
Speaker 1: it organized and mobilized a new social class, the petit bourgeoisie,

1678
01:32:21,600 --> 01:32:25,120
Speaker 1: equally hostile to the proletariat and the upper middle classes.

1679
01:32:25,439 --> 01:32:30,760
Speaker 1: Salvatarelli had labeled fascism reactionary Bolshevism, a danger today infinitely

1680
01:32:30,840 --> 01:32:34,400
Speaker 1: more real than communist Bolshevism. He had since that fascist

1681
01:32:34,479 --> 01:32:38,320
Speaker 1: ambitions went beyond the bourgeoisie, anti proletarian reaction and the

1682
01:32:38,360 --> 01:32:42,080
Speaker 1: protection of the middle class. The dictatorial ambition of fascism,

1683
01:32:42,080 --> 01:32:45,800
Speaker 1: Salvatarelli wrote in December nineteen one, had already shown its

1684
01:32:45,800 --> 01:32:48,080
Speaker 1: face in parts of Italy, where the Fascist Party was

1685
01:32:48,120 --> 01:32:51,639
Speaker 1: imposing its dictatorial will by crushing opponents to whom they

1686
01:32:51,640 --> 01:32:55,519
Speaker 1: denied any political or civil right, including the right to live.

1687
01:32:55,960 --> 01:32:59,559
Speaker 1: In July nineteen when not even Mussolini had thought about

1688
01:32:59,600 --> 01:33:03,719
Speaker 1: taking or power. Salvatarelli denounced the ongoing anti state attack

1689
01:33:03,880 --> 01:33:07,800
Speaker 1: perpetrated by fascism that was endangering the very existence of

1690
01:33:07,840 --> 01:33:10,640
Speaker 1: the Italian state in order to establish a regime of

1691
01:33:10,720 --> 01:33:13,960
Speaker 1: violence throughout the country. Immediately after the March on Rome,

1692
01:33:14,160 --> 01:33:17,559
Speaker 1: Salvatarelli stated that the fascist government was determined to establish

1693
01:33:17,640 --> 01:33:21,080
Speaker 1: a one sided dictatorship because it did not want any

1694
01:33:21,120 --> 01:33:25,800
Speaker 1: political activity to be carried out outside of fascism. Salvatarelli

1695
01:33:25,840 --> 01:33:28,519
Speaker 1: saw in fascism, as he wrote on November first, nineteen,

1696
01:33:29,479 --> 01:33:32,680
Speaker 1: the true and proper characteristic of a political movement, of

1697
01:33:32,680 --> 01:33:35,760
Speaker 1: a party organized for its own ends of a specific

1698
01:33:35,840 --> 01:33:38,840
Speaker 1: social class, and that aimed at the conquest of power

1699
01:33:38,920 --> 01:33:41,760
Speaker 1: on its home was determined to fling itself against the

1700
01:33:41,800 --> 01:33:44,559
Speaker 1: existing state in the name of the presumed greater good

1701
01:33:44,560 --> 01:33:51,479
Speaker 1: of the nation. Mm hmm, Yeah, it's a lot there,

1702
01:33:51,479 --> 01:33:55,160
Speaker 1: There's a lot there. He suggested something that I the

1703
01:33:55,240 --> 01:33:59,040
Speaker 1: thought in that that the thought never crossed my mind

1704
01:33:59,600 --> 01:34:03,080
Speaker 1: that at as there were so many big words, it's

1705
01:34:03,080 --> 01:34:05,040
Speaker 1: hard for me to nail down exactly where I heard it.

1706
01:34:05,120 --> 01:34:10,080
Speaker 1: But he almost suggested the possibility of a two party

1707
01:34:10,160 --> 01:34:15,599
Speaker 1: system in a fascist state. When he was like this

1708
01:34:15,680 --> 01:34:21,280
Speaker 1: fascism impresses. It was almost like he's it sounded redundant,

1709
01:34:21,280 --> 01:34:24,719
Speaker 1: where he was kind of like this one party power

1710
01:34:25,640 --> 01:34:28,080
Speaker 1: fascist state, as if it's possible to have a two

1711
01:34:28,120 --> 01:34:32,920
Speaker 1: party system because that at the time. At the time,

1712
01:34:33,000 --> 01:34:35,559
Speaker 1: fascists were a part of the government right, and a

1713
01:34:35,640 --> 01:34:38,920
Speaker 1: lot of people, even a lot of like liberals, were like, well,

1714
01:34:39,320 --> 01:34:41,680
Speaker 1: they're not that dangerous. They're just one other party. They

1715
01:34:41,720 --> 01:34:43,559
Speaker 1: have their view. This is that. That's it's that old

1716
01:34:43,560 --> 01:34:45,360
Speaker 1: thing of like, well they have an opinion and everybody

1717
01:34:45,360 --> 01:34:46,960
Speaker 1: gets to have their appew and like we have to

1718
01:34:47,000 --> 01:34:49,760
Speaker 1: listen to them. They have they get the freedom to

1719
01:34:49,800 --> 01:34:53,240
Speaker 1: speak their peace, and what Salvatrelli is saying is their peace.

1720
01:34:53,720 --> 01:34:57,000
Speaker 1: What they're saying they believe is that only their opinion matters,

1721
01:34:57,040 --> 01:34:58,680
Speaker 1: and they'll kill you if you have a different one.

1722
01:34:58,720 --> 01:35:01,559
Speaker 1: Got it. So he's at them in the government. So

1723
01:35:01,600 --> 01:35:04,760
Speaker 1: he's trying to say, are y'all hearing what he's saying? Yeah, yeah, really,

1724
01:35:04,760 --> 01:35:06,519
Speaker 1: did you hear what he just said? This is not

1725
01:35:06,600 --> 01:35:10,400
Speaker 1: just said yeah, yeah, if we let them, they will

1726
01:35:10,439 --> 01:35:13,280
Speaker 1: be the only party, right um. And he's and he's

1727
01:35:13,280 --> 01:35:15,960
Speaker 1: also saying like they are their strength comes from a

1728
01:35:16,120 --> 01:35:19,639
Speaker 1: class right, and because the a lot of the communists

1729
01:35:19,600 --> 01:35:21,960
Speaker 1: at the time had been like, had written off the

1730
01:35:22,000 --> 01:35:24,559
Speaker 1: fascists as any kind of real movement, and it even

1731
01:35:24,600 --> 01:35:26,519
Speaker 1: written off the March on Rome. We'll talk about that

1732
01:35:26,600 --> 01:35:28,400
Speaker 1: later in the series. We're gonna do a big episode

1733
01:35:28,400 --> 01:35:30,679
Speaker 1: at the end on sort of what we can learn

1734
01:35:30,720 --> 01:35:33,880
Speaker 1: from all this. But there was a big failure among

1735
01:35:33,880 --> 01:35:35,360
Speaker 1: a lot of people in the left and even anti

1736
01:35:35,400 --> 01:35:39,160
Speaker 1: fascists to see fascists as the threat that they really were,

1737
01:35:39,520 --> 01:35:43,599
Speaker 1: because number one, they were so darn silly, but number two, like, well,

1738
01:35:43,760 --> 01:35:45,879
Speaker 1: you know, I'm looking at this from this Marxist analysis,

1739
01:35:45,920 --> 01:35:48,600
Speaker 1: and it tells me that all these classes like it

1740
01:35:49,800 --> 01:35:53,439
Speaker 1: forms it. I don't. I don't see this as a

1741
01:35:53,560 --> 01:35:57,599
Speaker 1: legitimate political movement that is speaking to a class that

1742
01:35:57,680 --> 01:36:01,840
Speaker 1: has a large body of the populace. Hind it. Okay,

1743
01:36:01,880 --> 01:36:03,360
Speaker 1: that was the peace I was missing when you add

1744
01:36:03,400 --> 01:36:07,280
Speaker 1: the Marxists like glasses on there and you go, oh, yeah, well,

1745
01:36:07,320 --> 01:36:09,719
Speaker 1: who's where where do they fit? Like where the cause

1746
01:36:09,720 --> 01:36:11,439
Speaker 1: can't be real because they don't fit him, none of

1747
01:36:11,479 --> 01:36:14,559
Speaker 1: these Yeah, And there's there's this attitude again we'll talk

1748
01:36:14,560 --> 01:36:16,439
Speaker 1: about us later among a lot of Marxists that like well,

1749
01:36:16,479 --> 01:36:19,040
Speaker 1: fascism is just the inevitable in the state of capitalism.

1750
01:36:19,040 --> 01:36:20,840
Speaker 1: And one of the things Salvatorelli saying, and a lot

1751
01:36:20,840 --> 01:36:22,920
Speaker 1: of things will say, is like, that's not exactly true.

1752
01:36:23,160 --> 01:36:25,479
Speaker 1: Fascism is pro capitalism a lot of the time. It's

1753
01:36:25,520 --> 01:36:27,840
Speaker 1: also anti capitalism a decent chunk of the time. And

1754
01:36:27,840 --> 01:36:29,840
Speaker 1: that's how it gets a lot of people on board

1755
01:36:29,880 --> 01:36:33,360
Speaker 1: with it. Um it's it's it is speaking to a

1756
01:36:33,400 --> 01:36:38,959
Speaker 1: specific class in the country who feels edged out by

1757
01:36:39,000 --> 01:36:41,400
Speaker 1: both sides, who feels oppressed by the rich, and who

1758
01:36:41,439 --> 01:36:43,559
Speaker 1: feels that the left is coming for what little they

1759
01:36:43,600 --> 01:36:46,960
Speaker 1: do have. Right, that still gets on board with this ship.

1760
01:36:47,280 --> 01:36:50,160
Speaker 1: And you have to see that they are looking out

1761
01:36:50,240 --> 01:36:52,479
Speaker 1: for their own that that that they have legit like

1762
01:36:52,600 --> 01:36:56,519
Speaker 1: interests that they see being threatened, like that there this

1763
01:36:56,600 --> 01:36:59,160
Speaker 1: is not just some sort of plot by the bankers

1764
01:36:59,479 --> 01:37:03,759
Speaker 1: to take our for themselves. Right, the fascists are speaking

1765
01:37:03,800 --> 01:37:08,080
Speaker 1: to legitimate um, you know, even if they're wrong, legitimately

1766
01:37:08,240 --> 01:37:14,000
Speaker 1: felt exactly like those are legitimate. Those are legitimate emotions

1767
01:37:14,040 --> 01:37:17,720
Speaker 1: that that you are actually in your body experiencing, whether

1768
01:37:17,840 --> 01:37:21,400
Speaker 1: that's the reality, like I say that about like, um,

1769
01:37:21,439 --> 01:37:24,519
Speaker 1: there's this this, you know, this discussion about like, well,

1770
01:37:24,520 --> 01:37:26,639
Speaker 1: you know, race is a social construct, therefore it's not real.

1771
01:37:26,680 --> 01:37:29,200
Speaker 1: Therefore racism is not real. And I'm like, okay, yes,

1772
01:37:29,240 --> 01:37:32,360
Speaker 1: you're right, race is a social construct, but what I'm

1773
01:37:32,439 --> 01:37:36,800
Speaker 1: experiencing in my body is real. It's you know what

1774
01:37:36,840 --> 01:37:40,599
Speaker 1: I'm saying. So I love it. I love that because

1775
01:37:40,600 --> 01:37:43,840
Speaker 1: it's like, that's that's what you can't dismiss about these

1776
01:37:43,880 --> 01:37:45,719
Speaker 1: people that are so riled up that they would storm

1777
01:37:45,720 --> 01:37:48,840
Speaker 1: a capital is it's that what they're experiencing in their

1778
01:37:48,840 --> 01:37:51,800
Speaker 1: bodies exct to what you said is being is you're

1779
01:37:51,800 --> 01:37:55,000
Speaker 1: pressed on both sides, and yeah, you feel that. At

1780
01:37:55,040 --> 01:37:57,800
Speaker 1: least you feel it. At least this person is saying.

1781
01:37:58,439 --> 01:38:01,600
Speaker 1: These group of people are saying, I feel you, and

1782
01:38:01,680 --> 01:38:03,240
Speaker 1: I have an answer for you. Yeah, And I have

1783
01:38:03,280 --> 01:38:05,160
Speaker 1: an answer for you, and it's let's kill the left

1784
01:38:05,200 --> 01:38:09,360
Speaker 1: and take over the government. You know. He's like, yeah, easy, um, yeah,

1785
01:38:09,400 --> 01:38:12,880
Speaker 1: and that's why you know the six happened. Um So

1786
01:38:14,200 --> 01:38:19,800
Speaker 1: Mussolini uh takes office um two weeks after the March

1787
01:38:19,880 --> 01:38:28,559
Speaker 1: on Rome on November UH November sixteenth, nineteen twenty two.

1788
01:38:28,640 --> 01:38:30,880
Speaker 1: He stands before the Chamber of Deputies to present his

1789
01:38:30,920 --> 01:38:32,840
Speaker 1: new list of ministers. So he picks out all the

1790
01:38:32,840 --> 01:38:35,840
Speaker 1: people who are going to run the government, all fascists. Um,

1791
01:38:36,000 --> 01:38:40,200
Speaker 1: now the new Prime Minister. Mussolini begins his speech to

1792
01:38:40,880 --> 01:38:43,920
Speaker 1: the Chamber of Deputies by attacking the nation's elected leaders,

1793
01:38:43,960 --> 01:38:47,400
Speaker 1: calling them old and deaf and incompetent, and he even

1794
01:38:47,439 --> 01:38:50,960
Speaker 1: threatened them with violence, stating, with three hundred thousand armed

1795
01:38:51,000 --> 01:38:53,240
Speaker 1: men determined to carry out my orders, I could have

1796
01:38:53,280 --> 01:38:56,240
Speaker 1: punished those who have vilified and tarnished fascism. I could

1797
01:38:56,280 --> 01:38:59,560
Speaker 1: make this deaf and gray hall filled exclusively with fascists.

1798
01:38:59,760 --> 01:39:02,559
Speaker 1: I could, but I have not, at least not for now.

1799
01:39:05,120 --> 01:39:08,160
Speaker 1: Shut up, Shut up, gramps, I'll slapped the ship out

1800
01:39:08,160 --> 01:39:10,640
Speaker 1: of you now. He promised his as symbol deputies that

1801
01:39:10,720 --> 01:39:13,960
Speaker 1: his new fascist Italy would ensure law and order, strengthen

1802
01:39:14,000 --> 01:39:16,800
Speaker 1: the military, and crushed the left. The next day, the

1803
01:39:16,880 --> 01:39:19,960
Speaker 1: Chamber of Deputies conducted a vote of confidence, which Mussolini

1804
01:39:20,040 --> 01:39:22,920
Speaker 1: won three hundred and six to hundred and sixteen. So

1805
01:39:22,960 --> 01:39:25,960
Speaker 1: again he three, He's like, I can fucking kill you

1806
01:39:26,000 --> 01:39:31,200
Speaker 1: if I want to, and they're like, yeah, come up,

1807
01:39:31,760 --> 01:39:37,559
Speaker 1: put it, Yes, I voting I for you, now your life. Yeah,

1808
01:39:37,960 --> 01:39:39,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to read a quote from an article by

1809
01:39:39,640 --> 01:39:44,280
Speaker 1: Emilio Gentile about um anti fascism in Italy and about

1810
01:39:44,280 --> 01:39:47,759
Speaker 1: the March on Rome quote. Benito Mussolini could now claim

1811
01:39:47,840 --> 01:39:50,880
Speaker 1: that power was bestowed on him by democratic means, even

1812
01:39:50,880 --> 01:39:52,800
Speaker 1: though it was claimed that many votes were cast out

1813
01:39:52,800 --> 01:39:55,760
Speaker 1: of terror and intimidation from the fascists, which he had

1814
01:39:55,800 --> 01:40:00,080
Speaker 1: literally threatened the entire chamber. Bonito, Benito was the and

1815
01:40:00,160 --> 01:40:02,679
Speaker 1: of the hour. He was, in fact, imminently a product

1816
01:40:02,680 --> 01:40:05,679
Speaker 1: of a particular crisis, World War One, and a special

1817
01:40:05,800 --> 01:40:10,160
Speaker 1: social class, the petty bourgeoisie. Mussolini's capture of power was classic.

1818
01:40:10,400 --> 01:40:13,040
Speaker 1: He was the right national leader at the right moment.

1819
01:40:14,320 --> 01:40:18,000
Speaker 1: By nineteen twenty three, Mussolini's consolidation of power was complete.

1820
01:40:18,360 --> 01:40:20,920
Speaker 1: Italy was a fascist state, and any resistance to the

1821
01:40:20,920 --> 01:40:24,120
Speaker 1: regime from then on would take the form of mere insurgency.

1822
01:40:24,240 --> 01:40:27,960
Speaker 1: In total, between nineteen eighteen and nineteen twenty three, Italian

1823
01:40:27,960 --> 01:40:31,919
Speaker 1: anti fascists killed some four hundred and twenty eight fascists. Meanwhile,

1824
01:40:32,120 --> 01:40:35,200
Speaker 1: Mussolini's Black Shirts murdered at least three thousand people in

1825
01:40:35,240 --> 01:40:38,240
Speaker 1: the same period. Most of those people were not anti fascists.

1826
01:40:38,240 --> 01:40:41,759
Speaker 1: There were members of trade unions, journalists, local politicians, anyone

1827
01:40:41,800 --> 01:40:45,040
Speaker 1: who stood in the way between fascists and ultimate power.

1828
01:40:45,080 --> 01:40:47,879
Speaker 1: And again we've talked a bit about why the Italian

1829
01:40:47,880 --> 01:40:50,920
Speaker 1: anti fascist didn't succeed, and that's a longer conversation than

1830
01:40:50,960 --> 01:40:53,160
Speaker 1: we can have today. I think you're right that a

1831
01:40:53,240 --> 01:40:56,760
Speaker 1: lack of a a lack of something with momentum to

1832
01:40:56,840 --> 01:41:00,920
Speaker 1: oppose fascism, true momentum, was a part of it. Um

1833
01:41:00,960 --> 01:41:05,080
Speaker 1: A lack of uh state support is another part of it.

1834
01:41:05,080 --> 01:41:07,439
Speaker 1: There's a thing that some folks on the kind of

1835
01:41:07,479 --> 01:41:12,320
Speaker 1: who are are um anti fascist and anarchist activists in particular,

1836
01:41:12,320 --> 01:41:14,439
Speaker 1: we'll talk about called the three way fight, which is

1837
01:41:14,479 --> 01:41:17,320
Speaker 1: the idea that we're not just fighting against the fascist,

1838
01:41:17,320 --> 01:41:19,600
Speaker 1: we're fighting against the state, and we're fighting against the

1839
01:41:19,600 --> 01:41:22,599
Speaker 1: fascist because the state is also deeply harmful and deeply

1840
01:41:22,600 --> 01:41:25,519
Speaker 1: injurious to life and used. That was particularly very strongly

1841
01:41:25,520 --> 01:41:29,960
Speaker 1: felt by people during the blm uh risings. Right like,

1842
01:41:30,240 --> 01:41:32,559
Speaker 1: we have these fascists, these proud boys and stuff, coming

1843
01:41:32,560 --> 01:41:34,240
Speaker 1: in the street to do violence to us, we also

1844
01:41:34,280 --> 01:41:36,479
Speaker 1: have the cops doing it. We're in a three way fight, right,

1845
01:41:36,800 --> 01:41:39,680
Speaker 1: very valid way to look at things. It's also an

1846
01:41:39,680 --> 01:41:42,800
Speaker 1: almost impossible situation to win because the fascists aren't in

1847
01:41:42,800 --> 01:41:45,800
Speaker 1: a three way fight the fascist if they're smart, they're

1848
01:41:45,800 --> 01:41:49,479
Speaker 1: not dumb. Fascists sometimes are um and maybe our fascists

1849
01:41:49,520 --> 01:41:52,000
Speaker 1: have taken a turn for the dumb, let's hope. But

1850
01:41:52,960 --> 01:41:56,320
Speaker 1: the smart fascists get to power with some degree of

1851
01:41:56,400 --> 01:41:59,360
Speaker 1: legitimacy and legality and then use the state to crush

1852
01:41:59,400 --> 01:42:01,599
Speaker 1: their enemies. But is they don't want a three way fight, right,

1853
01:42:01,800 --> 01:42:05,920
Speaker 1: that's a problem. Yeah, because yeah, because yeah, because the

1854
01:42:05,960 --> 01:42:09,599
Speaker 1: government is just a weapon. It's not because it's just

1855
01:42:09,680 --> 01:42:16,400
Speaker 1: a weapon. Yeah. Wow, she'sh man, I need a shower. Yeah, okay, Dad,

1856
01:42:16,600 --> 01:42:18,920
Speaker 1: please tell me you're done. Yeah, no, I'm done. That's

1857
01:42:18,920 --> 01:42:27,840
Speaker 1: the end of episode. Dog. It's like the it's just

1858
01:42:28,920 --> 01:42:32,800
Speaker 1: the party that feels like these people give you this

1859
01:42:33,640 --> 01:42:37,120
Speaker 1: when you're trying to to stop, when you're the ones

1860
01:42:37,200 --> 01:42:39,599
Speaker 1: trying to stop an insurrection. It's like, these people give

1861
01:42:39,640 --> 01:42:41,920
Speaker 1: you no you have no safe faith, They give you

1862
01:42:42,000 --> 01:42:44,200
Speaker 1: no breaks like that. You can never stop and take

1863
01:42:44,200 --> 01:42:49,320
Speaker 1: a breath because they're gonna read that as weakness. And

1864
01:42:49,360 --> 01:42:53,919
Speaker 1: then next thing you know, somebody tying up Nancy Pelosi.

1865
01:42:54,160 --> 01:42:56,160
Speaker 1: And it's not that I'm a Nancy Pelosi fan. It's

1866
01:42:56,200 --> 01:42:58,439
Speaker 1: just you shouldn't be able to tie Nancy Pelosi get

1867
01:42:58,520 --> 01:43:02,160
Speaker 1: up saying how that should happen? That's not as should happen.

1868
01:43:02,320 --> 01:43:04,720
Speaker 1: You feel me like, I just this and it's not

1869
01:43:04,760 --> 01:43:09,719
Speaker 1: that I'm a fan of the US government. However, however,

1870
01:43:09,960 --> 01:43:15,400
Speaker 1: there are worse things to yes. So it's just like

1871
01:43:15,439 --> 01:43:17,519
Speaker 1: there's yeah, like you said, like you feel like you're

1872
01:43:17,520 --> 01:43:19,439
Speaker 1: in a three way fight, and my fight is is

1873
01:43:19,720 --> 01:43:26,240
Speaker 1: especially as someone who would say organizationally and factually, my

1874
01:43:26,400 --> 01:43:31,280
Speaker 1: black life matters, right is that? That's all I'm trying

1875
01:43:31,320 --> 01:43:36,200
Speaker 1: to say, is Nigga, can I live? Like God damn it, man?

1876
01:43:36,280 --> 01:43:42,400
Speaker 1: Can I live? You know? And so you you my goals.

1877
01:43:42,600 --> 01:43:45,080
Speaker 1: I feel like in a lot of ways if it

1878
01:43:45,160 --> 01:43:48,360
Speaker 1: comes to like how do I say this, Like, I'm

1879
01:43:48,400 --> 01:43:52,360
Speaker 1: not looking for as a as a black person, if

1880
01:43:52,360 --> 01:43:55,360
Speaker 1: you will, I'm not. I'm just looking for my rights

1881
01:43:55,400 --> 01:43:58,360
Speaker 1: to be honored. Yeah, that's all I'm trying to say,

1882
01:43:58,400 --> 01:44:03,400
Speaker 1: Just honor my rights. Like no, there's no platform of

1883
01:44:04,080 --> 01:44:10,519
Speaker 1: a read construction of the government short of just stop killing, Like,

1884
01:44:10,600 --> 01:44:12,920
Speaker 1: let me be a citizen like you dog, Like, that's

1885
01:44:12,960 --> 01:44:14,799
Speaker 1: all tries. Can you just let me be a citizen

1886
01:44:14,840 --> 01:44:17,200
Speaker 1: like you? Bro? That's that's all I'm saying. So so

1887
01:44:17,600 --> 01:44:19,840
Speaker 1: when you when you try to when you pit me

1888
01:44:19,920 --> 01:44:25,000
Speaker 1: against a fascist movement, that's saying, well, no, our goal

1889
01:44:25,240 --> 01:44:27,759
Speaker 1: is to overthrow this whole thing and be in charge,

1890
01:44:27,920 --> 01:44:31,680
Speaker 1: and no, you don't get rights somehow the government choosing you.

1891
01:44:31,800 --> 01:44:34,519
Speaker 1: It's like it's hard. It's almost like all all I

1892
01:44:34,560 --> 01:44:37,880
Speaker 1: get to do now is I got homeboys that live

1893
01:44:37,880 --> 01:44:40,479
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, And what they saying is they finda just

1894
01:44:40,520 --> 01:44:43,679
Speaker 1: grabbed a popcorn and watch the civil war between these

1895
01:44:43,720 --> 01:44:47,160
Speaker 1: fascists and the and the police. Like I'm just because

1896
01:44:47,160 --> 01:44:49,600
Speaker 1: it's like I don't I want to be on the

1897
01:44:49,640 --> 01:44:51,439
Speaker 1: side of the government, but the government on the side

1898
01:44:51,479 --> 01:44:53,160
Speaker 1: of me either, you know what I'm saying. So it's

1899
01:44:53,160 --> 01:44:56,200
Speaker 1: just you just in this weird predicament. But I know

1900
01:44:56,200 --> 01:45:01,240
Speaker 1: who I don't want to win. Yeah, And this is

1901
01:45:01,240 --> 01:45:04,639
Speaker 1: where we get to the problem of the side opposing

1902
01:45:04,680 --> 01:45:07,800
Speaker 1: the fascists has done a lot of good, uh, And

1903
01:45:07,840 --> 01:45:11,840
Speaker 1: it is important to oppose fascists. What's actually needed to

1904
01:45:12,040 --> 01:45:14,240
Speaker 1: beat them opposing in this one thing and it can

1905
01:45:14,240 --> 01:45:17,040
Speaker 1: slow them down. What's needed to beat them is to

1906
01:45:17,280 --> 01:45:20,639
Speaker 1: provide something else that is not the state as it exists,

1907
01:45:20,680 --> 01:45:25,920
Speaker 1: because that's Um, but that you can also get people

1908
01:45:26,000 --> 01:45:28,559
Speaker 1: on enough. People on board with the fascists don't have

1909
01:45:28,600 --> 01:45:32,200
Speaker 1: oxygen anymore, right, the fascist it's like a fire right

1910
01:45:32,240 --> 01:45:34,559
Speaker 1: where you've got a bunch of dry fucking brush and

1911
01:45:34,640 --> 01:45:37,360
Speaker 1: trees and ship and oxygen, and as long as you

1912
01:45:37,400 --> 01:45:40,120
Speaker 1: have those things, the fire is going to spread. And

1913
01:45:41,160 --> 01:45:45,479
Speaker 1: the way to counter that is to fucking pour some

1914
01:45:45,560 --> 01:45:50,760
Speaker 1: fucking water on it. You know. Um, that's a good analogy, man.

1915
01:45:50,880 --> 01:45:53,519
Speaker 1: You need to reduce the area in which it can spread,

1916
01:45:53,520 --> 01:45:56,360
Speaker 1: and it's human terrain, right, So by the only way

1917
01:45:56,360 --> 01:45:58,439
Speaker 1: to reduce the human terrain the ship can spread in

1918
01:45:59,040 --> 01:46:02,639
Speaker 1: is to give pull something else. Yes, yes, because they

1919
01:46:02,640 --> 01:46:04,800
Speaker 1: don't have anything right, Yes, that's what I was going

1920
01:46:04,840 --> 01:46:06,559
Speaker 1: back to when he was asking me, like, why did

1921
01:46:06,600 --> 01:46:09,000
Speaker 1: this fails? Like they didn't give them nothing else. Yeah,

1922
01:46:09,120 --> 01:46:11,320
Speaker 1: it just said don't do this. Well, then what do

1923
01:46:11,400 --> 01:46:14,559
Speaker 1: we do because we got now ain't working. Yes, So

1924
01:46:14,560 --> 01:46:17,439
Speaker 1: it's either the government that led us into World War

1925
01:46:17,520 --> 01:46:21,360
Speaker 1: One or some people who are saying we should do

1926
01:46:21,400 --> 01:46:23,400
Speaker 1: what they're doing in Russia right now. And that doesn't

1927
01:46:23,439 --> 01:46:27,879
Speaker 1: look great. Um, And you know most of the liberals

1928
01:46:27,960 --> 01:46:29,680
Speaker 1: are like on the side of like, well, we'll just

1929
01:46:29,760 --> 01:46:31,840
Speaker 1: we'll just keep tweaking the system that got us into

1930
01:46:31,880 --> 01:46:34,040
Speaker 1: World War One, And a lot of people are like,

1931
01:46:34,240 --> 01:46:39,479
Speaker 1: that doesn't seem good. Do I need I need, I

1932
01:46:39,520 --> 01:46:42,679
Speaker 1: need an option deed, Jake, Yeah, I'm poor my government.

1933
01:46:42,840 --> 01:46:46,320
Speaker 1: J I have no hope for the future. So Jake,

1934
01:46:46,720 --> 01:46:49,439
Speaker 1: this guy is saying it'll be different. Dr Jacob, let's

1935
01:46:49,439 --> 01:46:53,800
Speaker 1: see if it's different. Yes, exactly. Uh, It's like it's

1936
01:46:53,840 --> 01:46:56,960
Speaker 1: like when you're watching a basketball game and it's your

1937
01:46:56,960 --> 01:46:59,160
Speaker 1: two least favorite teams playing and you want both of

1938
01:46:59,200 --> 01:47:01,479
Speaker 1: them to lose that there is a way for one

1939
01:47:01,520 --> 01:47:03,840
Speaker 1: of them, not like somebody has to win. So there

1940
01:47:04,280 --> 01:47:06,960
Speaker 1: has there has to be some sort of interference that

1941
01:47:07,000 --> 01:47:10,360
Speaker 1: makes it so that the game can't even happen. Otherwise

1942
01:47:10,360 --> 01:47:12,920
Speaker 1: you're going to just pick your your Joe Biden. You

1943
01:47:12,920 --> 01:47:15,160
Speaker 1: get stuck with Joe Biden, so you guys, otherwise you

1944
01:47:15,200 --> 01:47:19,800
Speaker 1: get Joe Biden. Nobody wants that either, you know, like,

1945
01:47:20,000 --> 01:47:23,160
Speaker 1: that's man, That's what I'm like, Look like, do do

1946
01:47:23,280 --> 01:47:28,200
Speaker 1: not say I'm glad nobody has suggested that like Joe

1947
01:47:28,200 --> 01:47:32,160
Speaker 1: Biden is just a left wing of Trump. To some

1948
01:47:32,240 --> 01:47:37,840
Speaker 1: people know, he is a consolation prodecation of the consolation

1949
01:47:38,840 --> 01:47:41,600
Speaker 1: we settle for Joe Biden, like this thing ain't to

1950
01:47:41,640 --> 01:47:47,040
Speaker 1: come in Messiah. He he to disciple Bartholomew at best

1951
01:47:48,320 --> 01:47:56,320
Speaker 1: conscious even he's not even Peter John like son, that's

1952
01:47:56,360 --> 01:48:01,439
Speaker 1: a deep cut boy, but it's not even Paul because

1953
01:48:01,560 --> 01:48:03,600
Speaker 1: like you, Timothy, you ain't even write no book in

1954
01:48:03,640 --> 01:48:06,679
Speaker 1: the New test I'm cheering up in my whole face,

1955
01:48:06,840 --> 01:48:11,880
Speaker 1: is right, this is so funny. That's a that's a

1956
01:48:11,960 --> 01:48:15,280
Speaker 1: that's a that's a that's an evangelical joke. So that's

1957
01:48:15,320 --> 01:48:20,519
Speaker 1: the first part of this behind therection, part motherfucking one.

1958
01:48:21,479 --> 01:48:24,920
Speaker 1: Proper Where can people follow you? Oh Lord, please follow

1959
01:48:24,960 --> 01:48:28,639
Speaker 1: me at prop hip hop on all them things? Um yeah,

1960
01:48:28,680 --> 01:48:31,479
Speaker 1: all the all of the twitters and instagrams. Um you

1961
01:48:31,479 --> 01:48:35,519
Speaker 1: could my website proper dot com backslize coffee. Yeah, that

1962
01:48:35,640 --> 01:48:39,280
Speaker 1: is my website and we do coffee stuff there. Um

1963
01:48:39,680 --> 01:48:45,080
Speaker 1: got some pods. Uh politics were prop which is um

1964
01:48:45,240 --> 01:48:48,839
Speaker 1: political analysis just from like you know, if you survived

1965
01:48:48,840 --> 01:48:54,439
Speaker 1: eighth grade, you could you understand your politics? You know,

1966
01:48:54,560 --> 01:48:58,040
Speaker 1: I'm just kind of giving you political analysis. Yeah, that's

1967
01:48:58,080 --> 01:49:02,439
Speaker 1: that's that's my that's my thanks, and uh, well we'll

1968
01:49:02,479 --> 01:49:06,639
Speaker 1: be back soon, Robert. We will be back soon. We'll

1969
01:49:06,640 --> 01:49:09,320
Speaker 1: be back to talk about the Munich Beer Hall push

1970
01:49:09,640 --> 01:49:13,000
Speaker 1: um next week UM, and then we'll talk about some

1971
01:49:13,080 --> 01:49:15,320
Speaker 1: other ship. And then we're gonna end this talking in

1972
01:49:15,439 --> 01:49:19,800
Speaker 1: broad about why fascists win when they win, and why

1973
01:49:19,880 --> 01:49:24,120
Speaker 1: fascists lose when they lose. Your gift to the world,

1974
01:49:24,200 --> 01:49:31,080
Speaker 1: Robert h like like like socks, A nice pair of socks.

1975
01:49:31,479 --> 01:49:36,040
Speaker 1: Robert doesn't know how to take compliments as you. I'm

1976
01:49:36,080 --> 01:49:38,599
Speaker 1: just going to run away from my computer now, goodbye.

1977
01:49:41,120 --> 01:49:48,040
Speaker 1: That's the episode. What Girls in the Forest, our imagination

1978
01:49:48,320 --> 01:49:52,439
Speaker 1: and our family bonds. The forest is closer than you think.

1979
01:49:52,800 --> 01:49:55,559
Speaker 1: Find a forest near you and discover the fourth dot

1980
01:49:55,680 --> 01:49:58,479
Speaker 1: Org brought to you by the United States Fourth Service

1981
01:49:58,520 --> 01:50:03,960
Speaker 1: and the AD Council. On April four, Dr Martin Luther

1982
01:50:04,040 --> 01:50:06,799
Speaker 1: King was shot and killed in Memphis. A petty criminal

1983
01:50:06,920 --> 01:50:11,679
Speaker 1: named James Earl Ray was arrested. Case closed right. James

1984
01:50:11,720 --> 01:50:16,920
Speaker 1: Sylvy was upon for the official story. Some of the evidence,

1985
01:50:17,200 --> 01:50:20,760
Speaker 1: as far as I was concerned, did not match the circumstances.

1986
01:50:21,439 --> 01:50:25,040
Speaker 1: This is the MLK tapes. The first episodes are available now.

1987
01:50:25,479 --> 01:50:28,559
Speaker 1: Listen on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or

1988
01:50:28,600 --> 01:50:33,240
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Adoption of teens from foster

1989
01:50:33,280 --> 01:50:35,519
Speaker 1: care is a topic not enough people know about, and

1990
01:50:35,560 --> 01:50:38,240
Speaker 1: we're here to change that. I'm April Dinuity, host of

1991
01:50:38,240 --> 01:50:42,240
Speaker 1: the new podcast Navigating Adoption, presented by adopt us Kids.

1992
01:50:42,280 --> 01:50:46,040
Speaker 1: Each episode brings you compelling, real life adoption stories told

1993
01:50:46,040 --> 01:50:48,600
Speaker 1: by the families that lived them, with commentary from experts.

1994
01:50:48,960 --> 01:50:52,639
Speaker 1: Visit adopt us kids dot org, slash podcast, or subscribed

1995
01:50:52,680 --> 01:50:56,080
Speaker 1: to Navigating Adoption presented by adopt Us Kids, brought to

1996
01:50:56,080 --> 01:50:58,160
Speaker 1: you by the U. S Department of Healthy Human Services,

1997
01:50:58,160 --> 01:51:00,920
Speaker 1: Administration for Children and Families, and the ACT Council.