Speaker 1: Andrea Goveno. She is number six of ten children. She's
Speaker 1: the author of Divorced from the Mob. She's a podcaster,
Speaker 1: a mother, a friend. But y'all, there's more, there's a
Speaker 1: lot more. Her life reads like a movie. She committed
Speaker 1: her first crime when she was five years old. Tonight,
Speaker 1: she's here to tell us her story. Y'all, please help me.
Speaker 1: Welcome Andrea Gioveno to Zone seven. Andrea, welcome, and thank
Speaker 1: you so much.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: This is something I have just been giddy almost knowing
Speaker 1: that I was going to be able to talk to
Speaker 1: you here, and folks are going to be able to
Speaker 1: hear your story. So I've already gave them a little
Speaker 1: bit of a tease. But why don't you go ahead
Speaker 1: and tell us about that first crown.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, I came from a lot of poverty, ten children,
Speaker 2: grew up in Brooklyn. My dad was a truck driver
Speaker 2: and my mom was to stay at home mom. And
Speaker 2: you know, to have ten children, you know, they couldn't
Speaker 2: make ends meet, and you know, so she taught us
Speaker 2: at a very young age, Like you said, at five,
Speaker 2: I was getting up like four or five o'clock in
Speaker 2: the morning with my other siblings and running out to
Speaker 2: steal like doughnuts or milk or you know, they used
Speaker 2: to leave the carts back then in the sixties in
Speaker 2: front of the store, so just to have breakfast.
Speaker 1: Sure, and people had milk delivered to their house and
Speaker 1: left on the stoop. Yeah. So you know, with ten children,
Speaker 1: y'all do had to make do.
Speaker 2: You had to make do. So it was so that
Speaker 2: was very comfortable. You know, when you learn things and
Speaker 2: you're a product of your environment at a very young age,
Speaker 2: you become comfortable with that because that's all you know.
Speaker 2: And in life, you take your lead from your parents.
Speaker 2: So normal parents would like not allow a child to steal.
Speaker 2: But so I think that you know, when you tell
Speaker 2: you child that that's what you're supposed to do, then
Speaker 2: the child does it. No, they follow their lead.
Speaker 1: Sure, and you know, it almost seems like it was
Speaker 1: an instinct for you to keep your mouth shut, like
Speaker 1: you just kind of knew that, Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's it's well in that background in the Italian culture,
Speaker 2: in Italian even organized crime where I came from, because
Speaker 2: basically that whole area was like that. Everything is about loyalty,
Speaker 2: everything is about you know, no outsiders could come in. No,
Speaker 2: you don't make new friends with new people. It's all
Speaker 2: about that little clique of Italians that are in that
Speaker 2: criminal world.
Speaker 1: Sure. And you know I've always said this to friends
Speaker 1: of mine, their Italian Southerners and Italians are very similar
Speaker 1: to me. That culture of family comes first. Everything is
Speaker 1: centered around food, doesn't matter what the event is. And
Speaker 1: then that loyalty. There's no question that you are loyal
Speaker 1: to your people.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you have to be loyal and know
Speaker 2: your place. You know, it's about that too, And you're
Speaker 2: so right. It's about food and family and friends, but
Speaker 2: friends that are part.
Speaker 1: Of that life, correct, yep, you know. And you know
Speaker 1: it's funny because all of us grew up, of course,
Speaker 1: downside and Georgia and I had one sister only that
Speaker 1: moved away to the north and she married a man
Speaker 1: that was a pilot and they moved to Connecticut. And
Speaker 1: I had a great uncle that said, y'all, don't worry
Speaker 1: about it, we're just infiltrating because it was just going
Speaker 1: to be such a different world for her. Of course
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 2: I mean, I live in a different world today, you know,
Speaker 2: after everything happened to me in nineteen ninety two with
Speaker 2: my arrest. You know, facing I was charged with a RICO.
Speaker 2: And if people that people that don't understand what a
Speaker 2: RICO is, the best way I could explain it is
Speaker 2: if that I got arrested with twenty two organized crime guys,
Speaker 2: if they were charged with murder or trafficking or pornography,
Speaker 2: whatever I was, I was being charged, they were being
Speaker 2: charged with.
Speaker 1: And let me just say for the record, the Feds
Speaker 1: don't come at you with a RICO that ain't solid.
Speaker 2: Exactly if the Feds I always say this, if the
Speaker 2: Feds knock on your door, like I refer that on
Speaker 2: my own podcast when I did a show about p Diddy,
Speaker 2: when the Feds come, they have a solid case.
Speaker 1: It's already done. It's already done.
Speaker 2: Well everything they need to know that you are going
Speaker 2: to jail.
Speaker 1: And this is something I want you to really talk
Speaker 1: about because when I spoke to you, even on the phone,
Speaker 1: and honey, I could have talked to you for five hours.
Speaker 1: But that loyalty, that thread is something that in my
Speaker 1: world I also understand. And you know, in law enforcement,
Speaker 1: there's that brotherhood, there's that commitment, there's that loyalty. And
Speaker 1: I'll tell you one story because I think you'll think
Speaker 1: it's funny. But we had one officer in our department
Speaker 1: that had a horrible wreck and one of the female
Speaker 1: officers was tending to him, waiting for the ambulance to
Speaker 1: come another car that he hit. The woman was yelling
Speaker 1: and screaming, you don't even care anything about me. You're
Speaker 1: just working on him. You're not even asking if you know,
Speaker 1: if I'm okay. And the female officer turned and she
Speaker 1: very in a colorful way, told her to shut her mouth,
Speaker 1: that that was a police officer and she was absolutely
Speaker 1: going to take gary him first. And she said, and
Speaker 1: I don't even like this guy, so well, you know, and.
Speaker 2: That is so I appreciate that because that's exactly how
Speaker 2: it was in my world. That the way you have
Speaker 2: to watch each other's back because you're out in the streets,
Speaker 2: you know, and you know you can get shot. It's
Speaker 2: just as dangerous you're dealing with, you know, hardcore criminals.
Speaker 2: That's how the loyalty is and the circle is in
Speaker 2: the world that I come from. So it's very much intertwined.
Speaker 1: And you know a lot of people say, well, you know,
Speaker 1: she was probably connected because she was somebody's girlfriend or
Speaker 1: somebody's wife. Honey, you were a straight up loan shark,
Speaker 1: you know exactly.
Speaker 2: When I recently when I did the show, I've done
Speaker 2: a lot of documentaries, so the viewers could understand I've
Speaker 2: been doing this for over thirty years. Like a little
Speaker 2: bit of my background. I was on sixty Minutes. Sixty
Speaker 2: Minutes doesn't put you on their show. They're one of
Speaker 2: the most recognized news teams in this country that's got
Speaker 2: such a reputable background. You know, they vet you, and
Speaker 2: so I did sixty Minutes. I was, you know, did
Speaker 2: Barbara Walters on the view. I've done many, many documentaries,
Speaker 2: and the most recent documentary that I did was Get
Speaker 2: Gotti on Netflix, which was number one in forty four
Speaker 2: countries for like eight weeks.
Speaker 1: Forty four countries.
Speaker 2: Come on many full country.
Speaker 1: I tell you something, Diovino, let's just vet you real quick.
Speaker 1: You're in a freaking Rico indictment exactly.
Speaker 2: So another thing what I'm getting at is that you
Speaker 2: don't get on a show like Netflix, which have some
Speaker 2: of the best attorneys in the world, because it's all
Speaker 2: over the world that they don't vet you and see
Speaker 2: what you're back. They go back, they talk to you,
Speaker 2: the prosecutors, they get the court records, the attorneys. It's
Speaker 2: like a whole vetting process. So when people say, well, no,
Speaker 2: she was somebody's girlfriend of somebody's wife, No I wasn't
Speaker 2: arrested for that. I was arrested because I was in
Speaker 2: the streets. Not to brag about that or not to
Speaker 2: make that the highlight of it, because that's all I
Speaker 2: knew was how to make money in the streets. And
Speaker 2: that's what my story was so unique, because here she
Speaker 2: is running with all these heavy hitters of high level
Speaker 2: organized crime guys, and she's holding her own.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. And as a criminologist, you have information
Speaker 1: that I need. I need to be able to understand
Speaker 1: your world if I'm going to stop the next person.
Speaker 2: Right, And I always say, when law enforcement of any
Speaker 2: type of law enforcement, whether it would be DEA, ATF,
Speaker 2: whatever it is, whatever agency it is, and they come
Speaker 2: in and make an arrest, you bet that criminal has
Speaker 2: done that crime a thousand times. Yeah, you know, that's
Speaker 2: the first arrest, But that criminal has been on the
Speaker 2: street a long time.
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, no question, it's a situation for me,
Speaker 1: the way you lay everything out, your honesty, like you've
Speaker 1: told me several times, ask me anything, you have no
Speaker 1: reason to lie. That reminds me of John Gotti. He
Speaker 1: flat said, I don't ever lie because I don't fear
Speaker 1: anybody exactly.
Speaker 2: I don't have to lie. You know, that was that
Speaker 2: was my background. That was who I was. That is
Speaker 2: not who I am today. And you know I've said
Speaker 2: I've changed my life totally. That was my downfall in
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety two with four kids, and you know, woke
Speaker 2: me up that I lost custody of one of my
Speaker 2: children because of it. And then you know, facing like
Speaker 2: ten years in prison, so you know, I was just like, wow,
Speaker 2: how did this all happen to me? And then I
Speaker 2: got like a lot of therapy and I had to
Speaker 2: dig deep down, like emotional surgery to understand who who
Speaker 2: I was and why I chose the men I chose,
Speaker 2: and why I chose the things I had chosen because
Speaker 2: you know, not having an education, you know, I have
Speaker 2: a seventh grade education, and then always feeling inferior to
Speaker 2: people that did have an education, and I felt like
Speaker 2: I couldn't fit in. I didn't know their language. I
Speaker 2: didn't know how to speak on the level that they
Speaker 2: were speaking about kids that went to college and you know,
Speaker 2: educated themselves. I was a street kid. I was a
Speaker 2: tough street kid, and that's who I was comfortable with.
Speaker 2: So those were the guys I was picking to be around.
Speaker 1: But you weren't encouraged to get an education. You were
Speaker 1: encouraged to learn how to cook and clean and a
Speaker 1: big wife.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it. You know, they didn't believe in that.
Speaker 2: They didn't believe in education.
Speaker 1: Sure, and if you are, you know, in a family
Speaker 1: where your mom's like, hey, strive for this, try to
Speaker 1: you know, get you a man that's in organized crime
Speaker 1: because he's going to make a good living. Yes, I
Speaker 1: understand that you're going to make him. You're not probably
Speaker 1: going to meet the guy from Wall Street. That's not
Speaker 1: where you're hanging out.
Speaker 2: No, that's not where I'm hanging out. That's not where
Speaker 2: I'm comfortable. That's not like what I want to be around.
Speaker 1: And let's be honest, I mean, just woman to woman,
Speaker 1: you're around good looking men that have money in their pocket,
Speaker 1: that know how to protect you, that want to show
Speaker 1: you off. That ain't a bad life either.
Speaker 2: No, it's very at the time, it's a very glamorous,
Speaker 2: glamorous lifestyle. And street guys because the money comes in
Speaker 2: very fast and they spend a lot. They're big spenders. Now,
Speaker 2: the guy that goes to work, he's not going to
Speaker 2: blow his money like that because he's working hard for it.
Speaker 2: So the street guy is going to blow his money
Speaker 2: because he knows he's going to go on the street
Speaker 2: and make more.
Speaker 1: Especially in the nineteen eighties, Baby come Home.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, you didn't have all of the technology that
Speaker 2: they have today to make arrests, you know. And then
Speaker 2: once you know, in New York one Sammy Gravano, you know,
Speaker 2: which was the undervorce in the Gambiano crime family, informed
Speaker 2: became an informer that opened up the doors. I always
Speaker 2: say that opened up the gates heaven that everybody after that,
Speaker 2: everybody started being a government witness, Like everybody would get
Speaker 2: arrested in like you arrest six guys, four out of
Speaker 2: the six are gonna flip.
Speaker 1: And until Sammy the Bull, I mean, he was the
Speaker 1: highest ranking person that started to swim as they say, yes, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I gotta say this to you because when
Speaker 1: you said a little while ago that you transformed your life.
Speaker 1: I don't want to just gloss over that, because not
Speaker 1: only did you do that, but you've been able to
Speaker 1: maintain that. And in my head sometimes I think about
Speaker 1: you and you went from loan sharken to raising money
Speaker 1: for your church.
Speaker 2: And I'm you know, very very involved in the Catholic Church.
Speaker 2: I give back a lot.
Speaker 1: But think about that. I mean, that's an snl skit.
Speaker 1: Do you understand what I'm saying?
Speaker 2: Like not like, yes, I believe me, Am I priest,
Speaker 2: show me sure, Like you know, they know my background,
Speaker 2: they know who I am, and you know it's I
Speaker 2: guess today, I am the person that God intended me
Speaker 2: to be. This is who I'm supposed to be. I
Speaker 2: help a lot of struggling women. I help a lot
Speaker 2: of abused women. I had somebody here last night that
Speaker 2: came to talk to me to my home that's been
Speaker 2: getting you know, emotionally, verbally abused, just to you know,
Speaker 2: he's an addict. And long story short, I try to
Speaker 2: give my time back from the knowledge that I've acquired
Speaker 2: through the years of what's sick and what healthy is.
Speaker 2: And you know, a sick relationship, you know, if you
Speaker 2: hang out with sick people, you're going to get sick.
Speaker 2: If you hang out with healthy people, your brain will
Speaker 2: get healthier. And that's the best way I could put it.
Speaker 2: And with red flags, you know, like I explained to
Speaker 2: this young woman that here you are a beautiful, educated woman,
Speaker 2: you're a teacher, and you're putting up with this low
Speaker 2: life talking down to you. The first time. You should
Speaker 2: have done done. I'm done with you. And women a
Speaker 2: lot of women think that, you know, they stay in
Speaker 2: these types of relationships, and it could be any culture,
Speaker 2: any background, it doesn't matter. You have that type of
Speaker 2: abuse that goes on everywhere.
Speaker 1: I was going to say, every culture does put up
Speaker 1: with it, yes.
Speaker 2: And you know, and then that like the guys that
Speaker 2: I hung out with murderers, I mean, after they get
Speaker 2: what they want. The cheaters, they cheat on their wife.
Speaker 2: They'll cheat on their girlfriend when a man commits a murder,
Speaker 2: like I'll never forget. One of the guys said to
Speaker 2: me one time, if you're gonna compare a murder to cheating,
Speaker 2: he goes, look at the comparison to us. Cheating is
Speaker 2: making love. That's normal, Like it's no big deal. It's
Speaker 2: like playing tennis. That's how they look at it. It's
Speaker 2: not a big deal to them.
Speaker 1: You sad, And as a young girl watched Crazy Joe Gallo,
Speaker 1: you understood, Hey, this is a powerful guy. He's a
Speaker 1: rich guy. He's a mover, he's a shaker. You felt
Speaker 1: more comfortable in that world, even knowing what they were
Speaker 1: capable of.
Speaker 2: Yes, because that's what I was taught.
Speaker 1: Of course, of course.
Speaker 2: That's basically what I was taught. That's all I knew.
Speaker 1: And there's women that are taught to stay.
Speaker 2: Right, there's women that are taught to stay and to
Speaker 2: give these types of men the respect and power and
Speaker 2: praise and cater to them.
Speaker 1: So growing up, I heard that the Mafia guys would
Speaker 1: take their girlfriends out Friday night and Saturday night, they
Speaker 1: would take their wives out.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 1: One of the interviews I heard you say is that
Speaker 1: y'all all went out as groups on Tuesday and Thursdays.
Speaker 2: Because I was standing on my own, I wasn't a
Speaker 2: girlfriend at the correct. I was a businesswoman.
Speaker 1: Yep. So Sunday I figured everybody goes to church. So
Speaker 1: my question for you is what does the Mafia do
Speaker 1: on Mondays?
Speaker 2: They go right back to do this same get up
Speaker 2: get dressed and go out and get it in the
Speaker 2: streets and do their crimes. Okay, that's basically what they do.
Speaker 1: Love it because you know you've been on Get Gottie,
Speaker 1: Gotdi and Son Mafia Killer. But you never change who
Speaker 1: you are. You never change how you talk about the
Speaker 1: people in your life. You still have great affection for
Speaker 1: many of them, as you should. You talk about it
Speaker 1: as like anybody would talk about their senior prom It's
Speaker 1: part of you.
Speaker 2: It's part of my life. It's so many years of
Speaker 2: what I've experienced.
Speaker 1: You know, were you hesitant at all to do these shows?
Speaker 1: Thinking I don't want to give any of the secrets.
Speaker 1: I don't want to break the code entirely. I don't
Speaker 1: want to do anything that they would think is disrespectful.
Speaker 2: No, because at the time, well, when when I got arrested,
Speaker 2: that was my bottom and I had had like I
Speaker 2: had had enough with the whole life and all, and
Speaker 2: I felt like I needed to be true to myself.
Speaker 2: I needed to heal within myself. I needed to tell
Speaker 2: my story, not everybody else but me. I think that
Speaker 2: with that it was working on me, working on myself.
Speaker 2: So it wasn't like I was telling any of their business.
Speaker 2: I was telling my story of what happened to me.
Speaker 1: And see, I thought, even listening to you too, you
Speaker 1: had an opportunity to talk about your friend. They had
Speaker 1: a lot of people on those shows that never worked
Speaker 1: with Gotti. What and his friend was involved in another family.
Speaker 1: They were just a mafioso telling what they knew about
Speaker 1: the general understanding. But you talked about a man that
Speaker 1: you met at a bar with your sister.
Speaker 2: You know when I'm when I and it's it's funny
Speaker 2: because just this past summer, well actually I think it
Speaker 2: was this September that just passed. The person that I met,
Speaker 2: John Gotti through Mock Ryder just passed away. And I
Speaker 2: was friends with him through the years. He had gotten
Speaker 2: life in prison. He was up in alan Wood Federal Prison,
Speaker 2: not too far from where I lived, about two hours,
Speaker 2: so I made it a point I used to go
Speaker 2: visit him a couple of times a year. You realize,
Speaker 2: like they live such a fast life, and then is
Speaker 2: it all worth it? Because he lost his whole life
Speaker 2: living in prison like he was there thirty seven years.
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about Mark Ryder a minute, because he
Speaker 1: also validated you. I mean I think that's one of
Speaker 1: the greatest acts of friendship that I've heard, is that
Speaker 1: he called publicly to say, of course she knew John
Speaker 1: Gotti and John Gotty knew her. Are you crazy?
Speaker 2: And you know you know you're in law enforcement. It's
Speaker 2: that even he didn't care he was incarcerated. He could
Speaker 2: have gotten in trouble for even being on a video
Speaker 2: that I'm doing an interview right now and I was
Speaker 2: on a podcast and I get a call from an inmate.
Speaker 2: They're not allowed to do that. So he went on
Speaker 2: a limb. He went out on a limb to do that,
Speaker 2: to say, what, of course you knew John Gotti. You
Speaker 2: were with me, you met him with me, you were
Speaker 2: out with us all the time, you knew everybody.
Speaker 1: He was gonna have your back. Yes, yes, because and
Speaker 1: he's that old school, old school Mark Rider and Jean
Speaker 1: Gotti and John Gottie.
Speaker 2: Anthony Rappino, John, all of them them.
Speaker 1: Yes, they never cooperated. And people forget John Gotti went
Speaker 1: to prison for a couple of years on a murder
Speaker 1: charge in the seventies. Never said a.
Speaker 2: Word, no, no, never said a word. But then you
Speaker 2: have these other ones. Now, if you know all these.
Speaker 2: I'm right now the only female podcaster my podcast, Andrew
Speaker 2: Giudino podcast. I am the only female podcaster from organized
Speaker 2: crime that's out there that the other podcasters that do
Speaker 2: the stuff that I talk about Italian organized crime all
Speaker 2: government informers. You don't have anybody out there that's talking
Speaker 2: about this stuff that isn't a government informer.
Speaker 1: And you didn't just get a reco charge. You got
Speaker 1: a RICO charge. You kept your mouth shut. They offered
Speaker 1: you witness protection.
Speaker 2: I didn't go.
Speaker 1: You didn't go.
Speaker 2: I didn't go. You know why I didn't go because
Speaker 2: I had so much faith. Even back then, I was
Speaker 2: always connected to church always. I might not have followed it,
Speaker 2: but I was connected to it. And I just said,
Speaker 2: we said, the guy upstairs knows when I'm gonna die.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to be afraid. I'm just not afraid.
Speaker 2: I'm not that kind of person to be afraid.
Speaker 1: And I won't be able to understand though, Andrea, there
Speaker 1: was a contract out on.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, legitimate contract.
Speaker 1: No, no, legit absolutely contract.
Speaker 2: They said she We're going to kill her. People went
Speaker 2: to prison for it. They went to prison for that.
Speaker 2: And here I am five six one hundred and twenty
Speaker 2: five pounds back. Not afraid of anyone, no one. And
Speaker 2: people would say when I've done these shows, are you No,
Speaker 2: I'm not afraid. Why. I don't know. I'm just not.
Speaker 1: You've never been afraid. I've never been afraid.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to have someone take that much of me.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna have just because he's a man and
Speaker 2: I'm a woman who he's going to take that much
Speaker 2: of me to make me be afraid. I'm not that
Speaker 2: kind of person. I'll fight to the end. I'll fight
Speaker 2: to the end.
Speaker 1: And before you were a member of the PTA, honey,
Speaker 1: you did just that. You got into a bar fight
Speaker 1: because somebody crossed one of your people.
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, straight.
Speaker 1: Up bar fight, y'all. I'm not talking about pushing and shoven.
Speaker 2: No talk about with John Gotty sitting there.
Speaker 1: With John Gotti sitting there.
Speaker 2: Yes, with John Gotty sitting there.
Speaker 1: Andrea, I gotta ask you. I gotta ask you this question.
Speaker 1: Is there times where maybe you're driving to church, or
Speaker 1: you're shopping, or you're with your grandchildren, do you ever
Speaker 1: say how did I get here from there?
Speaker 2: I do, and I have thought that I have like
Speaker 2: very strong faith. I just think that I follow that
Speaker 2: inner voice of what I'm supposed to do. And I
Speaker 2: live alone, and I am as much as I'm so outgoing,
Speaker 2: I have a very close circle. I don't get close
Speaker 2: to people. I'm just close to my family, my kids,
Speaker 2: my grandkids. That's it. I'm not really I don't let
Speaker 2: anybody in my circle, you know, and my church, the
Speaker 2: people from my church that you know, I feel I
Speaker 2: feel safe with. I don't trust many people. You know,
Speaker 2: when they say you're blessed if you get one good
Speaker 2: friend in a lifetime, that is very true, because people
Speaker 2: turn on you. People get envious, people get jealous. I mean,
Speaker 2: even within my own family, the more successful I had become,
Speaker 2: the more jealous they become. You know.
Speaker 1: That's why this podcast is called Zone seven. Atlanta has
Speaker 1: six police owns. So when we would get together after
Speaker 1: shifts and things like that, we couldn't come over the radio.
Speaker 1: This was before cell phones and pagers, and we couldn't say, Hey, everybody,
Speaker 1: we're going to go to the bar tonight. So we
Speaker 1: would say we're going to five nine at Zone seven,
Speaker 1: and then that kind of bled into this. There's only
Speaker 1: a few people that I can truly count on truly trust,
Speaker 1: actually want the best for me, are going to help
Speaker 1: me be successful, going to kind of keep me out
Speaker 1: of trouble, that kind of thing. And you're right, it's
Speaker 1: a small circle.
Speaker 2: It's a small circle, and you have to keep your
Speaker 2: circle small.
Speaker 1: Yep, yep. So when you decided to write your book
Speaker 1: so that you can inspire other peoplearticularly women, to transform
Speaker 1: their life, what was the first thing you thought about
Speaker 1: putting on paper?
Speaker 2: How I got inspired to write my book. I was
Speaker 2: in therapy and my therapist had said to me, write
Speaker 2: down everything of your feelings from A to Z, from
Speaker 2: what you can remember from your childhood and where you're
Speaker 2: at now. So I started writing down things and I
Speaker 2: couldn't believe when I was writing down so much trauma
Speaker 2: I had experienced and went through as a child, like,
Speaker 2: just so much trauma. And I decided, then when I
Speaker 2: started writing all these notes down, I should write a book.
Speaker 2: And then when I would say that, people very close
Speaker 2: to me, even family members, oh, you're never going to
Speaker 2: get a book out there. You have no education, you're
Speaker 2: not a writer. Like the more you tell me I'm
Speaker 2: not going to do it, the more I'll do it.
Speaker 2: And then I had a big pause. Publisher picked me up.
Speaker 2: So I think I wanted to write. I wanted to
Speaker 2: write a book more so, believe it or not, for
Speaker 2: women to understand, to maybe not go through what I
Speaker 2: went through by choosing the bad boy, by choosing the
Speaker 2: guy because he has money, you know, that lures you
Speaker 2: in with the love bombing and all of that, and
Speaker 2: then they change and then they're not the person they are,
Speaker 2: Like stay away from the criminal, like try to stay
Speaker 2: with the good guy. I wanted women to understand, because,
Speaker 2: like I said, it's all cultures, not just the Italian
Speaker 2: culture that there's crime in and and women don't realize
Speaker 2: it until it's too late that you could lose your children,
Speaker 2: you know, custody like which I did. I was custody
Speaker 2: of one of my children and have the heartache of
Speaker 2: you know, going to prison and you know, losing your
Speaker 2: children that way, just by being associated with someone that
Speaker 2: like that. So that's basically really why I wanted to
Speaker 2: write a book.
Speaker 1: Now, you mentioned a term love bomb that was new
Speaker 1: to me. I have only recently heard that, and my
Speaker 1: friend doctor Angie Arnold used it just in a sentence
Speaker 1: like you just did, and I said, ooh, that sounds fabulous, right, Well, because.
Speaker 2: What they do, it's very common. Like most of these
Speaker 2: men are sociopath narcissistic men that have no conscience. So
Speaker 2: you know they'll fall in love with you because of
Speaker 2: what you look like. I was very you know. You know,
Speaker 2: you look back on my pictures or whatever, young beautiful girl,
Speaker 2: and what happens is that the love bombing stage. Every
Speaker 2: woman wants that because they're showering you with gifts, You're
Speaker 2: going on a vacation. You know, they're telling you how
Speaker 2: much they love you. And for me, because I didn't
Speaker 2: get that love as a child, I never had anyone
Speaker 2: hold me and tell me, oh, I love you, because
Speaker 2: we would just pushed aside. I craved that. I wanted that.
Speaker 2: I was like like, oh my god, you know he
Speaker 2: loves me, Like that's what I wanted, which I never had.
Speaker 2: So you just get caught up in that. But like now,
Speaker 2: like with all the knowledge I've acquired and worked on
Speaker 2: myself and all I could see the red flags a
Speaker 2: mile away, you know, like the bullshit and all.
Speaker 1: That sure and the line and the cheating in the
Speaker 1: Canalvin and the colony.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because when a guy comes in whether he
Speaker 2: could be a criminal or like a legit guy. And
Speaker 2: he starts doing that with the you know, love bombing
Speaker 2: stage where the gifts to this, to that. That's not
Speaker 2: a good guy because he he shouldn't be doing that.
Speaker 2: He should be courting you in a normal manner, not
Speaker 2: buying you like a possession.
Speaker 1: Right. Well, it was such a powerful thing that you
Speaker 1: said earlier. If you're with sick people, you're gonna get sick.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's the same thing if you're married to
Speaker 1: somebody who is conting you, deceiving you, mistreating you. The
Speaker 1: flowers in the jewelry, they don't mean anything.
Speaker 2: They don't mean nothing. Every time I used to get gifts,
Speaker 2: I used to call them guilt gifts because my husband
Speaker 2: probably did something really bad. That's basically why he was
Speaker 2: giving them. And even now my brother, one of my brothers,
Speaker 2: lives like maybe two three miles away. I haven't talked
Speaker 2: to him in years. This he was, you know, did
Speaker 2: about nine murders, pleaded out to nine murders. The government
Speaker 2: let him out, but came out of prison after cooperating
Speaker 2: nine murders, and him and my ex husband and they're
Speaker 2: still two sick people together. They might like make society
Speaker 2: think that they're different, but they're not. That mindset, the
Speaker 2: mindset of I was just saying this to somebody. If
Speaker 2: the audience could understand when someone commits a murder, this
Speaker 2: is not normal, and then they can go out and
Speaker 2: eat a steak and go out and live their life
Speaker 2: and they have no remorse over it.
Speaker 1: That's associopath and you have to protect yourself from that
Speaker 1: person mentally for your own health.
Speaker 2: So I sit exactly so I stay away from them.
Speaker 2: I don't engage, I don't go to anything. I don't
Speaker 2: see him. I haven't seen him in years, and he
Speaker 2: lives a couple of miles away. I haven't bothered with
Speaker 2: him in years. I want no part of him, nothing,
Speaker 2: not him or my ex.
Speaker 1: So let's do this. Let's talk specifically about John Gottie.
Speaker 1: Tell us about the person you knew.
Speaker 2: You know a lot of people like say, oh, you
Speaker 2: know what John was really about, and they made movies
Speaker 2: about him and stuff like that. The John I knew
Speaker 2: because I knew him in a setting of fun of
Speaker 2: being out in the club's restaurants having a drink music.
Speaker 2: I didn't see that vicious side of him. I did
Speaker 2: not see that because I saw the fun part of John. Gentlemen.
Speaker 2: I always say, you know, if men cursed, John would
Speaker 2: be the first one to say, Hey, you got a
Speaker 2: lady sitting here, mean while my mouth was worse than theirs.
Speaker 2: So that but that's the best way I could explain it.
Speaker 2: So if I was in a restaurant with girlfriends in
Speaker 2: Manhattan and John walked in with a couple of guys,
Speaker 2: or any of these guys like this, if you know them,
Speaker 2: they'll say to the way to give me the check,
Speaker 2: I'm paying the check. That's how they are.
Speaker 1: And you know, again, growing up hearing about I was
Speaker 1: in high school and college, and all I understood was
Speaker 1: everybody in the neighborhood loved him. There wasn't a sex
Speaker 1: offender in that neighborhood. There wasn't a rapist in that neighborhood.
Speaker 2: They take care of the neighborhood. They take care of their.
Speaker 1: Own exactly and too exactly right. And I think again,
Speaker 1: like law enforcement, I understand that you know, when a
Speaker 1: police officer shot, everybody in the surrounding counties and agencies
Speaker 1: are coming for the funeral. Everybody around the United States
Speaker 1: is coming, and it's the same.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you a story. What happened. I was in
Speaker 2: my twenties. I was twenty five at the time. I'll
Speaker 2: never forget. I was buying back then. If you remember,
Speaker 2: you could buy a house with cash. They didn't have
Speaker 2: They didn't check where your cash came from. I was
Speaker 2: buying a house in Queens and the house was two
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty thousand, and I went to contract and
Speaker 2: I put sixty thousand down a contract of cash. I
Speaker 2: decided then about a month later, I didn't want that
Speaker 2: house because I didn't want to stay in Queen's. I
Speaker 2: wanted to move back to Brooklyn. And this is a
Speaker 2: tough Irish guy that I was buying the house from.
Speaker 2: He owned a couple of bars in Manhattan along Seventh Avenue.
Speaker 2: His name was Patty and Patrick Marin. I'll never forget.
Speaker 2: I tell him I want to get out of it. Really.
Speaker 2: He says, well, you're not getting the money back. I said,
Speaker 2: what do you mean, I'm not getting the money back.
Speaker 2: You're not getting the money back. He wouldn't give me
Speaker 2: the money back. Long story short, I said, you're really
Speaker 2: sure you want to go down that road? Yeah, you're
Speaker 2: not getting the money back. Okay. I go to the
Speaker 2: club where all the guys I know hang out, and
Speaker 2: they go like this, and I don't want to mention
Speaker 2: too many names, but some people are still alive. I
Speaker 2: tell them the story. They said, tell me everything about
Speaker 2: the guy. I said, Well, he owns this bar. He's
Speaker 2: got a son that works at the bar. Well, the
Speaker 2: bar's in New York. At four eight four am. They wait,
Speaker 2: They get the son. His name is the son name
Speaker 2: was named Patty. Four guys get him coming out of
Speaker 2: the bar. They said, are you Patty Mary? Yeah, your
Speaker 2: father's Patrick Marrin. They get him in the car. They
Speaker 2: put a gun to his head. Take me to your
Speaker 2: father's house. Knock on the father's door. You don't give
Speaker 2: me f and money right now, a bag of sixty thousand.
Speaker 2: I don't want a scent missed. I'm gonna put a
Speaker 2: bullet in your son's head right here, right now. I
Speaker 2: got every cent back the next morning, I guarantee you
Speaker 2: did every cent. Wait, I say, go to the club.
Speaker 2: What do I owe you? You owe us nothing. We
Speaker 2: take care of our own nothing. They didn't take a cent.
Speaker 1: There you go, because Patty thought he was, you know,
Speaker 1: a real tough guy.
Speaker 2: Hey, didn't know anything about me, of where I came from,
Speaker 2: who I was. I was buying his house. He just
Speaker 2: went to He just tried to shake down the wrong person.
Speaker 2: That's what happened. He shook down the royal figure. Oh
Speaker 2: she's a kid whatever, you know. No, it didn't happen
Speaker 2: like that. I kept saying, are you sure you want
Speaker 2: to do this? You're not. He was a tough old
Speaker 2: Irish guy. You're not getting a sent back. But buh,
Speaker 2: buh buh, I got it back. They got it back
Speaker 2: to right the way that they know how to fight.
Speaker 1: Honey. They ain't nothing to add to that story. It's perfection.
Speaker 1: To me. That's how the real world should work. You
Speaker 1: don't wrong somebody, and if you do, their people should
Speaker 1: knock on your door. Listen. I have heard your podcast,
Speaker 1: tell everybody about it.
Speaker 2: So my podcast is basically about crime, all the crimes
Speaker 2: that and about people. And I have guests on that
Speaker 2: have done a lot of prison time, some of them
Speaker 2: thirty years or more and have really true, you know,
Speaker 2: hardcore stories and all facts. So if you love crime,
Speaker 2: the podcast is basically all about that. It's about people
Speaker 2: that are getting out of prison that I try to
Speaker 2: bring on the show. I've had correctional offices that I've
Speaker 2: met up at prisons that have retired that come on
Speaker 2: my show. So the podcast is growing. I wasn't How
Speaker 2: I got to do the podcast was after the Get Godie.
Speaker 2: People were asking me and you know, you should do
Speaker 2: a podcast, and that's how it got started. And it's
Speaker 2: really been doing very well. So the podcast is just
Speaker 2: my name Andrea giavino one on YouTube and if you
Speaker 2: want to hear anything about crime, just tune in. And
Speaker 2: I always answer when people leave me messages. I always
Speaker 2: for the subscribers, I always answer them back.
Speaker 1: Always unbelievable. Well, it is an outstanding podcast, I'm telling you.
Speaker 1: And to get the stories that you're getting on tape,
Speaker 1: I think is just part of American history and it's
Speaker 1: an important part. I've always said and I'm going to
Speaker 1: say it again. I think the Smithsonian should have an
Speaker 1: entire building to true crime and the way it tells
Speaker 1: the story of America.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, and what it is also women like
Speaker 2: that that genre. Even when I started my podcast, I
Speaker 2: got a lot of I still had to fight. I
Speaker 2: got a lot of negative feedback from the men because
Speaker 2: they just can't handle a woman like me, you know,
Speaker 2: coming into their world now doing a podcast from big podcasters,
Speaker 2: you know, you know which I'll put out this, Sammy Gravano,
Speaker 2: Michael Francis. You know, they all wanted to knock me
Speaker 2: because they were a little bit threatened. Oh she's coming
Speaker 2: into this world now. And I just kept going and going,
Speaker 2: and I continue to go, and I'm not going to
Speaker 2: have them stop me. My stories are real. The people
Speaker 2: I have on a vouch for me. I had a guy,
Speaker 2: George Mortorano did thirty three years, he did two years
Speaker 2: incarcerated with John Gotti, and just so happened, John Gotty
Speaker 2: had talked about me when he was incarcerated, about just
Speaker 2: when we were on the streets. So people vouched for me,
Speaker 2: validated me, and these other guys try to knock me.
Speaker 1: Well, I will say this. I heard one person saying
Speaker 1: I never heard of her. Okay, Well let me just
Speaker 1: respond to that the only way that I know how.
Speaker 1: In my world, I can tell you the top drug
Speaker 1: dealers in Atlanta. I can also tell you the street
Speaker 1: level folks. That's my job to know who you are.
Speaker 1: There is no way a beautiful, blondheaded Bombshelle is running
Speaker 1: any kind of loan, sharken that he didn't hear about.
Speaker 2: That exactly exactly? How do you not know that?
Speaker 1: Ain't no way you don't know it. So but listen,
Speaker 1: I appreciate you. I have enjoyed all of your stories,
Speaker 1: all of your information. I appreciate your honesty and your
Speaker 1: willingness to come and talk to us.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. I'm honored that you,
Speaker 2: in the background that you come from, want to interview
Speaker 2: me because I love it. I think it's great. I
Speaker 2: think it's a growth for you to understand who we are.
Speaker 1: Listen, you said something that not only did I agree
Speaker 1: with it, but I thought, Lord, everybody needs to hear it.
Speaker 1: When people were saying, oh John God, he got took
Speaker 1: down because he was on Time magazine, you said that
Speaker 1: didn't happen that way. You said, law enforcement brought him
Speaker 1: down and credit should be given. They took their time.
Speaker 1: It's the same reason we know who you are. They
Speaker 1: took their time and got you, and.
Speaker 2: I feel that way in the bottom that's what they did.
Speaker 2: They did that job, I said, and they did it
Speaker 2: damn well.
Speaker 1: And you know, there's no reason to be disrespectful on
Speaker 1: either side. You have gifts and you have things you
Speaker 1: can teach law enforcement and they need to hear it,
Speaker 1: just like you know the movie like Catch Me if
Speaker 1: you can, you need to hear from Avang Gale you do.
Speaker 1: There's things we don't know. We are always behind.
Speaker 2: You are always behind. You don't know because you don't
Speaker 2: know the criminal mind, and they wait for people to
Speaker 2: cooperate to tell them. But if you have a step
Speaker 2: ahead of that and understand how the criminal mind works,
Speaker 2: you'd be ten steps ahead.
Speaker 1: That's right. There's only a couple of things where this
Speaker 1: is not the case, and like child molesters would be one.
Speaker 1: But the way I try to do my job is
Speaker 1: you remember the old cartoon with the sheep dog and
Speaker 1: the fox trying to get the chickens or sheep or whatever. Okay,
Speaker 1: And at the end of the day they would clock
Speaker 1: out and say, okay, see tomorrow. I feel like you know,
Speaker 1: that drug dealer's got a job, that prostitute's got a job, awhile,
Speaker 1: and you know I'm not gonna be disrespectful to theirs,
Speaker 1: and you know see tomorrow. You know That's the way
Speaker 1: I see it.
Speaker 2: You have to put yourself into that criminal mind of
Speaker 2: what's gonna happen next, what are they gonna do next,
Speaker 2: so you don't have to wait to get an arrest
Speaker 2: that they might beat the case. You want to win
Speaker 2: your case.
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. Well, I appreciate you, and this
Speaker 1: was fabulous and I hope we get to talk again,
Speaker 1: of course.
Speaker 2: And anything you ever need to ask or whatever, you
Speaker 2: have my number to call me. It was a pleasure
Speaker 2: talking to you.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Hey, and if you're ever in New York, contact me.
Speaker 2: You could come on the show.
Speaker 1: Oh, count on that you That would be fantastic. Thank you,
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, y'all. I'm going to end Zone
Speaker 1: seven the way that I always do with a quote,
Speaker 1: everybody's a gangster until a gangster walks in the room,
Speaker 1: John Gottie. I'm Cheryl McCollum and this is Own seven.