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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grease.

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Speaker 2: Alex Murdog, the South of Carolina heir to illegal dynasty,

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Speaker 2: the millionaire who also gunned down his wife and son

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Speaker 2: in cold blood, has just come out of South Carolina

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Speaker 2: courtroom where his bid for a new trial was examined

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Speaker 2: over and over and over the point did the court clerk?

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Speaker 2: Did the court clerk taint the jury and caused them

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Speaker 2: to render a guilty verdict? You know what this means, right,

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Speaker 2: we would have to do the entire Alex Murdog double

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Speaker 2: murder trial again, except the second time around the defense

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Speaker 2: would have the state's playbook. And I guarant to you

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Speaker 2: the defense would never put Alex and Murdog back on

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Speaker 2: the stand. All that s nodding and crying and slobbering

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Speaker 2: and uh just playing to the jury getting caught in

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Speaker 2: his own lies. That wouldn't happen. Second, the defense would

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Speaker 2: never have a huge slip of the tongue and bring

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Speaker 2: in Murdoch's financial crimes to the tune of millions and

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Speaker 2: millions of dollars he was stealing from his paraplegic clients,

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Speaker 2: and on and on and on. Oh no, it would

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Speaker 2: be a whole another movie. If there was a retrial

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Speaker 2: in the last hours. A judge rules that the defense

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Speaker 2: is full of it. Let me try a technical legal term,

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Speaker 2: full of bs okay, I Meancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories

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Speaker 2: and on serious exem one eleven. What a day in

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Speaker 2: that South Carolina courtroom. Again. I never thought that it

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Speaker 2: would come to this. All right, this judge is awesome.

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Speaker 2: Although I'm very curious because the camera's called her winking

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Speaker 2: at somebody. I would like to find out about that.

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Speaker 2: But first, let's just get to Alex Murdoch's bid for

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Speaker 2: a new murder trial. Excuse me, double murder trial. Listen

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Speaker 2: to the judge.

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Speaker 3: The facts did clerk of court? He'll make comments to

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Speaker 3: any jewel or which expressed her opinion of what the

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Speaker 3: verdict would be. Mss Hill denies a, and so the

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Speaker 3: question becomes was her denial credible? I find that the

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Speaker 3: clerk of court is not completely credible. As a witness.

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Speaker 3: Miss Hill was attracted by the siren call of celebrity.

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Speaker 3: She wanted to write a book about the trial, and

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Speaker 3: expressed that as early as November twenty twenty two, long

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Speaker 3: before the trial began.

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Speaker 2: I love this judge. Okay, I may not feel the

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Speaker 2: same way if there have been a different ruling. But

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Speaker 2: what about that miss Hill was attracted by the siren

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Speaker 2: call of celebrity. Wow, this judge is quite the wordsmith.

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Speaker 2: Did you hear her say that Becky Hill, the court

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Speaker 2: clerk was quote attracted by the siren call of celebrity.

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Speaker 2: Did she just pull that out of her own hat

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Speaker 2: or did she have that ready? Okay, back in the courtroom, listen.

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Speaker 3: She denies that this is so, but I find that

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Speaker 3: she stated to the Clerk of Court, Randa McKelvin and

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Speaker 3: others her desire for a guilty verdict because it would

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Speaker 3: sell books. She made comments about Murdoch's demeanor as he testified,

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Speaker 3: and she made some of those comments before he testified

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Speaker 3: to at least one and maybe more jewelorids.

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. Becky Hill was right that only

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Speaker 2: a guilty verdict would issure book sales because a lot

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Speaker 2: of people made a lot of money after Top Mom

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Speaker 2: Casey Anthony was found not guilty. That said, you are

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Speaker 2: hearing the judge laying down the law, joining me in

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Speaker 2: All Star panel. But first to Jennifer Wood, director of

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Speaker 2: Research at fitznews dot com. And let me tell you

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Speaker 2: about fitz News. They've been all up in this story

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Speaker 2: from the beginning. They have been three inches up Alex

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Speaker 2: Murdock's tailpipe and the prosecution telepipe. They have been on

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Speaker 2: everybody like a cheap suit since Maggie and Paul Murdoch

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Speaker 2: were found dead. And now this I'm going to get

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Speaker 2: to the rest of the panel in just one moment

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Speaker 2: with Jennifer Wood. I mean, when we started this jury trial,

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Speaker 2: could you ever have imagined that everybody's going to be

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Speaker 2: sitting in court long after the verdict talking about did

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Speaker 2: Becky Hill the court clerk, tank the jury and make

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Speaker 2: them vote guilty? Did you ever even imagine that? I

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Speaker 2: did not.

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Speaker 4: I absolutely did not see any of this coming. It

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Speaker 4: completely surprised me.

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Speaker 2: It's still surprises me because let me bring in Tim Jansen,

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Speaker 2: a high profile lawyer who's followed the case as well,

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Speaker 2: partner at Jansen and Davis. You can find him at

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Speaker 2: Jansenlawoffice dot com. Tim, isn't it true? And you and

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Speaker 2: I both tried a lot of cases that at the

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Speaker 2: end of a trial, if the defense attorney knows anything

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Speaker 2: at all, they know to pull the jury. Typically three

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Speaker 2: questions are asked during the polling. Is this your verdict?

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Speaker 2: Was this your vertict in the jury room? Is it

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Speaker 2: still your verdict? Sometimes those questions are a little bit different.

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Speaker 2: There are variations in different jurisdictions. But this jury was polled,

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Speaker 2: and that's typically the end of it. When a juror says,

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Speaker 2: this is my verdict, this was my verdict in the

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Speaker 2: jury room, and this is still my verdict. That's the

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Speaker 2: end of it. That's their chance to say, you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure. That's their chance, And none of these

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Speaker 2: jurors did that. Do you agree?

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Speaker 5: I agree every trial i've polled a jury win or lose. Well,

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Speaker 5: when the state loses, they pulled. But when I lose,

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Speaker 5: I would poll them. Only in one case in thirty

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Speaker 5: eight years I had a juror say no and start crying,

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Speaker 5: and then the jury was rushed out and then they

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Speaker 5: came back fifteen minutes later with the guilty. But yeah,

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Speaker 5: it's standard to pull the jury.

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Speaker 2: And it sounds like she got a beat down in

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Speaker 2: the jury deliberations room.

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Speaker 5: She didn't look.

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Speaker 2: They're like hub l n oh, we're going home tonight,

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Speaker 2: little lady. Yeah, that's probably what happened in the junior.

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Speaker 2: So hey, but you got it one time. I have

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Speaker 2: never had a Gurr breakdown during polling and go, oh

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Speaker 2: it wasn't my verdict. That's amazing. It very rarely happens,

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Speaker 2: but you actually had one happened, Shoe. The outcome was

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Speaker 2: the same in the end, but you actually had a

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Speaker 2: gr crack. And my point is that was her chance

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Speaker 2: to say this, I don't really think he's guilty.

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Speaker 5: She did not, And I guess the only basis now

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Speaker 5: was there tampering or evidence that the jury was painted?

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Speaker 5: And I think they went through the process.

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Speaker 2: Boy, they really did. In addition to Tim Jansen, high

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Speaker 2: profile lawyer and Jennifer Woods joining us from fits News,

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Speaker 2: doctor Michelle Dupree, who shot to the fore the country's

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Speaker 2: consciousness when she was on this case from the beginning,

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Speaker 2: high profile pathologist, medical examiner and detective from this jurisdiction,

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Speaker 2: doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalysts joining us out of LA

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Speaker 2: and Chris McDonough, former homicide detective three hundred homicides under

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Speaker 2: his belt and star of the Interview Room YouTube channel.

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Speaker 2: Jennifer Wood, could you just tell me about what was

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Speaker 2: happening in the courtroom before we go back to listen

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Speaker 2: to the judge tell me the whole thing. I want

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Speaker 2: everybody to hear what you already know it was.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it was tense, it was wild. You know,

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Speaker 4: there are a lot of moments when you could hear

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Speaker 4: gas from the gallery. You know, everybody was very respectful,

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Speaker 4: but there were just a lot of things that happened

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Speaker 4: during the hearing that caused jaws to drop.

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Speaker 6: It was.

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Speaker 4: It was a very unexpected and wild day.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Chris mcdunn adjoining me, Director Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective,

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Speaker 2: star of The Interview Room on YouTube. Chris, how many

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Speaker 2: times have you sat by and seen a perfectly guilty

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Speaker 2: murderer walk free? And it just it actually makes my skin.

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Speaker 2: It gave me chill bunps when I said that, because

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Speaker 2: it can be constitutional that the defendant walks free. For instance,

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Speaker 2: they weren't giving their miranda rights and therefore their confession

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Speaker 2: is suppressed, or the eyewitness is destroyed on the STEMD

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Speaker 2: because you find out it was at night, they weren't

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Speaker 2: wearing their glasses. I mean, it can be any number

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Speaker 2: of things. The judge gives the wrong jurey instruction and

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Speaker 2: the case is reversed and there's a plea for time

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Speaker 2: served because the state doesn't think they can, you know,

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Speaker 2: make the case again a million reasons. When you see

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Speaker 2: a guilty killer walk free through no fault of your own,

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Speaker 2: and you know this guy did it. He did it,

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Speaker 2: you know he did it, and it just eats you

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Speaker 2: up on the inside. You ever had that feeling, because.

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Speaker 7: I have, absolutely, and it is the worst. You know,

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Speaker 7: there's the emotional response from everybody, and obviously as an investigator,

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Speaker 7: you've put so many hours into it and you've brought

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Speaker 7: justice to the family and then all of a sudden

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Speaker 7: there's that technicality in the courtroom. You just it's just

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Speaker 7: sometimes unimaginable how you feel.

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Speaker 2: And to think this whole thing and go right down

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Speaker 2: the crapper another Latin phrase from law school, because allegedly

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Speaker 2: the court clerk was more concerned about making money off

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Speaker 2: a book containing the jury. Oh, and I'll be put

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Speaker 2: it out there. I met Becky Hill. I liked her.

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Speaker 2: She seemed to me very punctual, she was excellent at

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Speaker 2: her job, she was courteous. I couldn't believe that she

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Speaker 2: did this thing that was alleged, and I also thought

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Speaker 2: if she did do it, it was inadvertant. And I

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Speaker 2: found it very difficult to believe that a juror would

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Speaker 2: reach a guilty verdict in a double murder because of

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Speaker 2: something the court clerk said. But that was me going

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Speaker 2: into it in case anyone has forgotten what this is

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Speaker 2: really about. The bullet riddled bodies. A first, Paul I

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Speaker 2: like some Murdock's son, and then as his mother tried

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Speaker 2: to go to her son who was dying, she also

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Speaker 2: was gunned down dead. Take a listen to this nine

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Speaker 2: to one one call and now I won't win your emergency.

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Speaker 6: Modock tell me one forty seven mosaille roads.

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Speaker 3: I think the police, my.

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Speaker 6: Wife and top. Okay, you said forty one forty seven

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Speaker 6: mobile road and knowlogin, Sir, you said forty one forty

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Speaker 6: seven mozel rode in knowlogan, Yes, sir, forty one road.

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Speaker 6: Stay on the line with me, yes, Thursday on the

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Speaker 6: line with me. Okay, Okay, con communication Colleton, I have

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Speaker 6: an Alex Murdoch on the line. Callers from forty one

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Speaker 6: forty seven moll Role.

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Speaker 8: He's advising that his wife and child.

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Speaker 6: Was shot okay, and so give me the address again.

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Speaker 9: It's forty one, forty seven, Mozelle wrote, I've been up

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Speaker 9: to it now it's.

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Speaker 2: Bad, okay, okay.

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Speaker 8: And are they breathing?

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Speaker 6: No, ma'am okay. And it's your wife and your son,

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Speaker 6: a wife and my sorn are le No, ma'am there

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Speaker 6: on the ground out at my kennel.

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Speaker 2: You can stop it. I don't know that I can

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Speaker 2: hear any more of his lying and fate crying, or

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Speaker 2: maybe he worked himself into a fit so he actually

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Speaker 2: could cry. But you know, let me go to someone

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Speaker 2: I absolutely do trust completely. Doctor Michelle dupre joining us

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Speaker 2: from this jurisdiction, Columbia, South Carolina pathologist, medical examiner, detective

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Speaker 2: and author of Money, Mischief and Murder The Murdog Saga

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Speaker 2: the rest of the story on Amazon. But more important

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Speaker 2: than that, she actually wrote the book Homicide Investigation Field Guide.

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Speaker 2: Can we just remind everybody it's not about just a

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Speaker 2: hearing where one juror claims that her decision was tainted

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Speaker 2: by a comment from the court clerk. Tell me describe

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Speaker 2: the bodies, Doctor Dupree, Well.

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Speaker 6: Nancy Day were horrific. First, Paul, of course, was shot

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Speaker 6: with a shotgun. That is a devastating blow. It basically

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Speaker 6: destroys the body where the target is hit. Maggie, she

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Speaker 6: was shot four maybe five times with a high powered rifle,

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Speaker 6: same thing. Those are devastating injuries to the body. There's

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Speaker 6: just not much else to say.

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Speaker 2: Let's hear a little bit more of twenty six.

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Speaker 7: One.

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Speaker 2: Okay, is he bringing at all? No? No? Okay, see anyone, No, ma'am, No,

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Speaker 2: ma'am your.

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Speaker 10: House on the outside.

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Speaker 2: Okay. I can't. I can't take it, Doctor Bethany Marshall,

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Speaker 2: I can't take it. He is so why of course

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Speaker 2: he doesn't see anybody else around. He's the killer, That's

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Speaker 2: why he doesn't see anybody. How do you stand to

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Speaker 2: listen to people lie and snot and cry and carry

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Speaker 2: on like that. I mean, you probably listen to it

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Speaker 2: every day in your office, Nancy.

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Speaker 8: This reminds me of acting classes, where the students have

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Speaker 8: to work themselves up into a state in order to

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Speaker 8: express themselves in a certain role. And I think your

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Speaker 8: point that he may have just worked himself into this

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Speaker 8: is excellent because this sounds sort of practiced. It sounds

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Speaker 8: like methodical, like he thought about this for a long

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Speaker 8: time Nancy. He knew he was going to have to

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Speaker 8: place that nine to one one call. You know, even

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Speaker 8: though he's a cold blooded killer, even though he was

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Speaker 8: not attached to his wife and son. It is traumatic

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Speaker 8: to shoot somebody, you know. It takes a lot to

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Speaker 8: kill other people.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you know what you know. I thought i'd like

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Speaker 2: to you, Bethany Marshall, can you tell me it's traumatic

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Speaker 2: to shoot somebody, then why don't we not shoot somebody?

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Speaker 8: That's a really good point.

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Speaker 2: Avoid all that trauma and not shoot somebody much unless

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Speaker 2: your son nat because a wife as she is rushing.

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Speaker 2: So sorry.

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Speaker 8: Because he had this internal po scheme going on where

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Speaker 8: he always was spending money and then having to distract

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Speaker 8: and commit a crime to get more money. He was

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Speaker 8: always just ahead of himself, and that was just the

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Speaker 8: next action in this house of cards that he was

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Speaker 8: creating for himself.

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Speaker 2: You know, you sound a little bit like an Alex

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Speaker 2: marlak apologist. So I'm going to let you think about

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Speaker 2: that for just one moment. But let's get right down

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Speaker 2: to it in the courtroom. Jennifer Wood from Fitch Niws,

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Speaker 2: she heard it all. Take a listen now to the

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Speaker 2: defense attorney Dick Harputlin grilling the court clerk.

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Speaker 3: Did you tell her.

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Speaker 11: About the time of the trial that you were going

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Speaker 11: to write a book that you had thought about and

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Speaker 11: were going to write a book?

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Speaker 10: I can't remember exactly. I think we did have a

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Speaker 10: conversation about a book possibly in the future.

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Speaker 11: And did you tell her you're going to write a

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Speaker 11: book because you thought it would make a lot of money.

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Speaker 3: Oh, no, sir, You never said that, No, sir.

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Speaker 11: And did you tell her that you were going to

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Speaker 11: write a book to make a bunch of money so

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Speaker 11: you could buy a lake wife and build a house

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Speaker 11: on it.

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Speaker 2: No, sir. Okay, okay, Tim Jansen, I was going along

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Speaker 2: with Becky Hill and agreeing with her in that little

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Speaker 2: bit of testimony. But then when I got that additional detail,

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Speaker 2: did you say you wanted to get a lot build

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Speaker 2: a lake house on it? And that's a little too

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Speaker 2: rich in detail not to be true.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you knew what was coming. You knew he had

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Speaker 5: a witness that's going to testify that that's exactly what

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Speaker 5: she said. She destroyed all of her own credibility. She

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Speaker 5: committed perjury clearly. I mean the other clerk that came

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Speaker 5: in was very credible witness. She answered the question so quickly,

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Speaker 5: and Hill always had to pause, couldn't remember, couldn't recall.

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Speaker 5: It's clear she was not telling the truth.

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Speaker 2: Well, let me ask you something else, him Janssen. Even

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Speaker 2: if I did agree with you, which I'm not committing to.

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Speaker 2: But even if I did, what difference does it make?

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Speaker 2: So if she said I'm going to write a book,

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Speaker 2: I want to make a million dollars off this thing

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Speaker 2: because I've lived through hell and I'm going to write

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Speaker 2: a book and tell all. So what if she did

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Speaker 2: say that, all that matters is did she say it

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Speaker 2: to a juror and did in effect the juror's decision?

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Speaker 2: That's all that matters.

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Speaker 5: Well, the problem you have is we believe the clerk

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Speaker 5: or government officials are going to do their job. Did

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Speaker 5: she have a motive not to do her job? Well,

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Speaker 5: we know now she did, and she swayed from her responsibilities,

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Speaker 5: and she said and did things that a couple of

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Speaker 5: jurors said they've overheard. So you have to put that

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Speaker 5: together to determine whether this juror is telling the truth

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Speaker 5: or maybe this juror has been gotten to But we

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Speaker 5: know now Becky.

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Speaker 2: Had a motive, But what do you mean the juror

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Speaker 2: has been quote gotten to Are you suggesting that one

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Speaker 2: or more of the jurors were approached by the defense

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Speaker 2: to claim their verdict was incorrect.

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Speaker 5: I don't know that. But when you have eleven jurors

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Speaker 5: say that they didn't hear or ten of them said

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Speaker 5: they didn't hear anything, a nine of them and one

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Speaker 5: said her verdict, she said something that could have swayed

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Speaker 5: her verdict. And it's kind of problematic as if Becky

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Speaker 5: was saying these things, did she isolate this one juror

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Speaker 5: or did she say it to everybody and they just

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Speaker 5: disregarded it or didn't hear it.

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Speaker 2: I don't know that, or did she not say it

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Speaker 2: and the jurrar is making it up for some reason?

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Speaker 2: Undisclosed always a possibility. So you think there's a chance

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Speaker 2: that there was nefarious doings possibly to get this juror

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Speaker 2: to claim she was swayed. I don't know that it's

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Speaker 2: a possibility, because she would have, you know her. I mean, really,

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Speaker 2: would you put anything past Alex Murdoch? Would you? He's

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Speaker 2: already killed two people, He's stile an millions of dollars

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Speaker 2: from his disabled client. Sure, of course he would try

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Speaker 2: to get to one of the jurrrst. I mean we

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Speaker 2: all know, am I the only one?

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Speaker 5: We all know what possible. You get investigators and you

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Speaker 5: get lawyers out there to try to get a new trial.

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Speaker 5: Sometimes they go past the line.

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Speaker 2: And I don't think the defense lawyers hurt Poutlan and

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Speaker 2: the others. I don't think they would be that stupid

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Speaker 2: they would actually contact a jurar. I don't think that

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Speaker 2: they would orchestrate that. It's just too risky. They would

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Speaker 2: lose everything, their bar, the first of all, their license.

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Speaker 2: I agree, that's what you don't want to lose as

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Speaker 2: a lawyer, exactly, that's everything.

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Speaker 5: The community is so tight lip. There are people who

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Speaker 5: support Murda and no matter what the evidence is, and

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Speaker 5: they could have bringched out to this duror and then

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Speaker 5: that cur came.

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Speaker 2: Or Murdoch himself. You know, he's got a tablet, he's

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Speaker 2: got a phone. Who knows what he's doing or who

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Speaker 2: he could get to do his bidding. But I don't

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Speaker 2: think the lawyers would do it. Do I think Murdoch

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Speaker 2: would do it? Oh yeah, totally. Jennifer would do you

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Speaker 2: agree Burdock would do anything.

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Speaker 4: I wouldn't put anything past him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, NANSI.

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Speaker 9: There haven't been any allegations that someone had tried to

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Speaker 9: bribe the jury to lie about any undue influence in

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Speaker 9: their verdict. There's no allegations and no proof.

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Speaker 2: Okay. Back to the courtroom, Becky Hill, the clerk at

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Speaker 2: the center of all this controversy, getting grilled by an

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Speaker 2: excellent defense attorney, Dick Hartpootley.

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Speaker 11: Listen, you have described in your book your role is Switzerland.

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Speaker 7: Is that correct?

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Speaker 10: Correct?

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Speaker 3: Okay?

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Speaker 11: And that is that you should not be in any

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Speaker 11: way opinionated about what's going on in the trial.

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Speaker 3: Is that correct?

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Speaker 10: That's true?

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 11: Yet, in your book you indicated a number of different

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Speaker 11: points during the trial you had concluded he was guilty.

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Speaker 11: Is that correct?

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Speaker 12: I think taking this point, I don't know if her

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Speaker 12: conclusions in the book are in any way relevant to

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Speaker 12: what occurred during the trial and whether or not there

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Speaker 12: was any communications with the jurors, which is the sole

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Speaker 12: issue that we're here for today, is whether or not

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Speaker 12: missus Hill had any extraneous influence on the jurors.

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Speaker 3: And so I think this is going a little far.

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Speaker 3: Able to reject to the relative.

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Speaker 2: You know, Jennifer Wood, I agree with Creighton Waters right there,

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Speaker 2: and of course Hart Putlin is doing a great job

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Speaker 2: in what he's doing. Creighton Water is the prosecutor saying

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Speaker 2: I don't know if anything she said in her book

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Speaker 2: translates to misconduct in front of a yourr. But can

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Speaker 2: you just imagine this, Jennifer Wood, director of research at

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Speaker 2: fitznews dot com. Creighton Waters a veteran prosecutor. He really

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Speaker 2: believes that what he is doing is right, and I

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Speaker 2: respect that. Let's see another legal phrase from law school.

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Speaker 2: I bet he had a cow. There's a lot of

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Speaker 2: other ways I could have put that. When he finds

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Speaker 2: out that his verdict is in danger because of something

386
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Speaker 2: somebody claims, Becky Hill said, I mean, I've never had

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Speaker 2: a case come under this kind of scrutiny for something.

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Speaker 2: A clerk said to Ajrar, I've never even had a

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Speaker 2: dreary misconduct claim before. So don't you know he did

390
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Speaker 2: a backflip when he heard about this brew Haha. Can

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Speaker 2: you imagine him?

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Speaker 4: I can't imagine. I can't even imagine what his face

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Speaker 4: looked like when that first motion was filed. It must

394
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Speaker 4: be just so so disheartening.

395
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Speaker 2: I gave up cursing when I had the twins. But

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Speaker 2: I would say it has something to do with passing

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Speaker 2: a brick. Okay, that said I ran into him. I

398
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Speaker 2: ran into Creighton Waters at crime con and of course

399
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Speaker 2: tried to get something out of him. He wouldn't tell

400
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Speaker 2: me anything, but he seemed to agree with me when

401
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Speaker 2: I said, I really don't believe the whole vert's going

402
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Speaker 2: to be overturned by a passing comment. I mean, can

403
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Speaker 2: that really sway a jury verdict? He wouldn't commit, as

404
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 2: he should not have, but I tried. You know, give

405
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Speaker 2: me credit. Okay, more of Becky Hill, the clerk at

406
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Speaker 2: the center of this controversy on the stand.

407
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,160
Speaker 11: Listen, let me give you an example. You indicate, writing

408
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Speaker 11: back from Mozelle that you and three other people were

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Speaker 11: in a car and you all decided adamantly, I think

410
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Speaker 11: was the word you used, that he was guilty, that

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Speaker 11: he had killed his wife and son. Is that what

412
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Speaker 11: you put in the book?

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Speaker 10: I can't remember if I put that in the book,

414
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Speaker 10: but if you say I did, then I will figure

415
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Speaker 10: that happened. We did have a conversation about what each

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Speaker 10: of us thought and the all.

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Speaker 3: Four agreed that he was guilty.

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Speaker 10: Correct, and none of us were jurors, No, trust me,

419
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Speaker 10: I know that.

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Speaker 11: But you had an abiding conviction at least by the

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Speaker 11: time of the Mozelle visit that he was guilty.

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Speaker 2: So what you'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind

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Speaker 2: not to think that Alex Murdogg was guilty. Of course

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Speaker 2: she thought he was guilty, because he is guilty. I mean,

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Speaker 2: can we just be honest, Tim Janssen, the court personnel,

426
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Speaker 2: they hear the evidence just like the jurors do, and

427
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Speaker 2: they make an opinion, and nothing precludes them, prohibits them,

428
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Speaker 2: disallows them from discussing it. They just can't let the

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Speaker 2: jury hear it. You can never have any opinion in

430
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Speaker 2: front of the gurrrs.

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Speaker 5: That's true.

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Speaker 2: I mean unless you're the prosecutor or the defense. So

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Speaker 2: so what if she was in the car saying, oh, yeah,

434
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Speaker 2: he totally did it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's funny because you know, when I was trying

436
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Speaker 5: to cases a lot in federal court, after the jury

437
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Speaker 5: went back, I'd always asked the court recorded what he thought,

438
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Speaker 5: or the clerk what they thought, and they would tell

439
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,959
Speaker 5: me and I would get an idea because their neutrals

440
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,640
Speaker 5: both to be neutral see what they thought. I never

441
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 5: vision that they would go share any opinion they had

442
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 5: with the juror. And I've never seen that before.

443
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 2: You know, Chris McDonough, says doctor Bethany.

444
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 8: Well, yeah, Nancy, she had just seen a crime scene.

445
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:13,959
Speaker 8: All four of them were not drawers in the car,

446
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 8: but they had just seen where the beloved members of

447
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,479
Speaker 8: the community had been gunned down. Of course they're going

448
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,719
Speaker 8: to have to process that. Who just gets in a car,

449
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 8: goes home and doesn't talk about it.

450
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 2: You know, it hits me, doctor Bethany. I mean, it

451
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 2: all hits me. And I've been to so many homicide

452
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 2: scenes and they're not like in the movies. They're horrible.

453
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 2: They're horrible. They smell, the blood coagulates, the bodies start

454
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 2: to smell. It was like their hair is stuck in

455
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 2: the blood. There's dirt everywhere, there's just like it's horrible.

456
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 2: And I have been to many autopsies, but at the

457
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 2: crime scene, I've had officers actually leave and vomit outside

458
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 2: the crime scene. So it's nothing like what you see it. Actually,

459
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 2: it's just made my stomach hurt remembering that. But this

460
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 2: whole thing them being in the car and seeing the

461
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 2: crime scene and then talking about it, and another thing

462
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 2: that Tim Jensen just said. He would ask the court

463
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 2: reporter like, what do you think. I have one court reporter,

464
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 2: doctor Bethany, who was also a very very dear friend,

465
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 2: and I would have to actually turn her away from

466
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 2: the jury sometimes as she took down the testimony, because

467
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 2: let's just pretend the defendant got on the stand. Let's

468
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 2: just pretend it's murdog and he starts his bs, and

469
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 2: she would actually go and roll her eyes and like

470
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 2: shake her head. No, no, that's a big, fatly And

471
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, I agree with you, but we can't

472
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,360
Speaker 2: let the jury see you. And she would always position

473
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 2: her seat in front of the jury between the witness

474
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 2: box in me and the jury would be at my left.

475
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 2: I'd be right beside the jury. It should be right

476
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 2: smack dab in the middle. I'm like, you cannot shake

477
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 2: your head violently back and forth when the defendant is lying.

478
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 2: I know it's hard, but my point is, doctor Bethany,

479
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 2: of course she's gonna, of course begging Haill's gonna have

480
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 2: an opinion.

481
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 8: Of course she's going to have an opinion, Nancy. We

482
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 8: are we are wired to connect to other people. We

483
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 8: are wired to look at other people, look at the

484
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 8: expressions on their faces, ask some questions, kind of do

485
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 8: a check to see if just to check in to

486
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 8: see if our reality is correct. So the fact that

487
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 8: anyone would expect those four people to get in the

488
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 8: car and not check in with each other, not to

489
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 8: see if their reactions were correct, not to have to

490
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 8: process really almost undigestible feelings, you know, ask you when

491
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 8: you were talking about you know, the court reporter kind

492
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 8: of looking at each other. I remember when I used

493
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 8: to go to CNN HLN to be on your show.

494
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 8: So there was this limo driver who was a crime junkie,

495
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 8: and I would always ask him what he thought about

496
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 8: the case. It's not like I would repeat it on air,

497
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 8: but I just had to discuss it with somebody who

498
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 8: had just watched the extensive coverage. We all do that.

499
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 8: It's very human to want to talk to other people.

500
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 8: That doesn't mean we're crossing the line or talking to Georgian.

501
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 2: It was funny, Doctor Bethany. There was a little old man,

502
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 2: mister Thomas. He walked with a limp. He had to

503
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 2: be seventy eighty. He would come to everyone. He was

504
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 2: a trial junkie, whould come to every one of my

505
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 2: trials and between witnesses or when the jury's and resais,

506
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 2: if I wasn't still working frantically, I would go sit

507
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 2: with him alone in the courtroom and he would tell

508
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 2: me his thoughts on when had happened so far, and

509
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 2: he would be there as I waited for every verdict.

510
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's like a sounding.

511
00:29:54,960 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: Boarder time stories with Nancy Grace.

512
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 2: More of Becky Hill getting grilled and.

513
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 11: Based on what that I mean, I can love You

514
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 11: want me to read you how chilled you were, and

515
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 11: how you felt that poor Paul and Maggie been executed

516
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 11: by him on that scene, that visiting the scene convinced

517
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 11: you that he.

518
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 9: Was a horrible, horrible murder.

519
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 11: You want me to read that to you, or you

520
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 11: would concede that's what you wrote.

521
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: I will concede that's what I wrote.

522
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 10: But if I may, I will I would say that

523
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 10: that A lot of that is poetic license in writing

524
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 10: a book and in making it sound like that.

525
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 11: Okay, so some of his poetic license and some of

526
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 11: it you just stole. You You proloined it from that

527
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 11: BBC writer.

528
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 2: Right, what what is he talking about Jennifer Wood?

529
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 4: I mean, I think she was trying to get her

530
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 4: to admit that she, you know, had made statements in

531
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 4: the book and that she you know, either she has

532
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 4: to say she made the statements or she was laying

533
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 4: either or well.

534
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 2: He's saying she plagiarized. Is what he's saying. As a

535
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 2: matter of fact, he spells it out. Listen, did you

536
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 2: seal part of the book?

537
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 10: I did plagiarize, mister? It is and for that I'm

538
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 10: very sorry, and I.

539
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 11: Have apologized, Okay, and that makes it okay.

540
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 2: What I did?

541
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 10: I did and I apologized for that.

542
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 11: And part of the book is you say literary license, exaggeration.

543
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 3: I wouldn't call it exaggeration. Okay.

544
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 2: You know again, Tim Janssen. So if she lifted from

545
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 2: the BBC's work, it's plagiarism. So she plagiarized, she admitted it.

546
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 2: Can I just ask what does that have to do

547
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 2: with tainting the jury? Oh?

548
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 5: I agree with you. It was a brilliant cross examination

549
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 5: if she was a facult at a trial, and I

550
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 5: think he was just trying to make and destroy her credibility,

551
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 5: which I think he did very much did. And she

552
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 5: stole passages, she later admitted because under a time crunch

553
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 5: with her publishers, she gets stole passages and put it

554
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 5: in the book.

555
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 2: I don't I agree she did, And I don't know

556
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 2: if it was winning or unwinning. When she's trying to

557
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 2: amass a whole lot of information and she reads it,

558
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 2: I would imagine she tried to rewrite it and then

559
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 2: miss portions of it and did not rewrite it. I'm

560
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 2: putting it in the light and most favorable to her.

561
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 2: But she did it all right, she admits it. Why

562
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 2: are they bringing it up because it destroys her credibility

563
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 2: in front of the judge? More right?

564
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 7: Yeah, for sure?

565
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 5: And I think they're playing for the media there.

566
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 11: How much money did you make off that book?

567
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 10: There was not a whole lot of money made off

568
00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 10: of the book, after paying different things and paying for

569
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 10: some expenses that went along with that. But I want

570
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 10: to say roughly around one hundred thousand.

571
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 11: Okay, that's not a lot of money.

572
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 2: Well, one hundred thousand dollars is a lot of money

573
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 2: to a lot of people. But let's just get down

574
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 2: to did she tank the jury. Listen.

575
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 3: Was your verdict based entirely on the testimony, evidence, and

576
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 3: law presented to you in this case? Yes, ma'am. Did

577
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 3: you hear miss Becky Hill make any comment about this

578
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 3: case before you were verdict?

579
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am?

580
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 3: If yes, what did missus Hill say to watch his actions?

581
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 3: To watch his actions? What else? To watch him closely?

582
00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 3: To watch him closely? Anything? Or you remember?

583
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,399
Speaker 2: There it is but I can't remember. Okay, well wait

584
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 2: a minute, how can that suggest he's guilty? Help me out,

585
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,399
Speaker 2: Jennifer Wood. What's the judge getting at there?

586
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 4: I think the judge is questioning all we all had

587
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 4: questions listening to her testimony, and I think she was,

588
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 4: you know, getting at her state of mind and getting

589
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 4: at you know, did what what she heard from Becky

590
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 4: Hill or what she allegedly heard from Becky Hill?

591
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 8: A fact?

592
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 3: What her verdict?

593
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 2: So what we're getting out of gr r Z is

594
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:57,879
Speaker 2: that Becky Hill said to watch Murdog closely, watch him

595
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 2: on the stand. Okay, so far that's not cutting it.

596
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,439
Speaker 2: They're not getting any trial based on that. But listen

597
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 2: to the judge question yourr Z. Further, was your verdict.

598
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:15,760
Speaker 3: Influenced in any way by the communications of the Clerk

599
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 3: of court in this case, yes, ma'am. And how was

600
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 3: it influenced?

601
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 2: To me? It felt like.

602
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 11: She made it seem like he was already guilty, all right,

603
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 11: and I.

604
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,399
Speaker 3: Understand that that's the tenor of the remark she made.

605
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 3: Did that affect your finding of guilty in this case?

606
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am. Okay, right there, when the GURR said that

607
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 2: Baker Hill's statements affected her finding of guilt, you'd think

608
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:01,439
Speaker 2: that was the end of the story and we would

609
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 2: have a new trial, wouldn't you, Doctor Michelle Duprey, you

610
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,280
Speaker 2: sat through the entire trial. Wouldn't you think one gerrr

611
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 2: claiming she affected my guilty verdict would be enough?

612
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 6: Normally, Nancy, I would, except when I was there and

613
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 6: watching this jury, this juror, she really wasn't that credible.

614
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 6: She changed her story at least twice, maybe three times.

615
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,760
Speaker 2: Is that true, Jennifer Wood? Did she change the GURR

616
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 2: change her story?

617
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, from the affidavit that was submitted with the original

618
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 4: defense motion to her testimony, it did change. And that's

619
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 4: why they brought it in and had her review it.

620
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 2: Wow. Speaking of that affidavit, which is a sworn statement

621
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 2: by a witness. In this case, it is gerr Z

622
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 2: that claims her verdict was tainted by the court. Clark,

623
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 2: this is what she put in writing, and it's a

624
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 2: very far cry from what she just said on the stand.

625
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:02,800
Speaker 2: Take a list in five four.

626
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 6: In the.

627
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:10,439
Speaker 12: Affidavit that was given by this particular juror. Paragraph ten said,

628
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 12: I questions by mister Murdock's guilt, but I'm guilty because

629
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 12: I felt pressured by.

630
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:15,320
Speaker 7: The other jurors.

631
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 12: We would request an inquiry as to that, which is

632
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 12: how when this mession was filed she expressed the basis

633
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,399
Speaker 12: for her verdict, which obviously this answer is a little

634
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 12: different now, So we would request a brief inquiry from

635
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 12: the court as to that specification.

636
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 11: Thank you, your honor, As to.

637
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 3: The two things.

638
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 11: The first thing is he is correct. She gave an affidavit.

639
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 11: We would ask your honor to let her read her

640
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 11: affidavit to refresher memory of and she said other things.

641
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 11: They're very detailed in here.

642
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 2: Well, there you hear Creighton Waters being as delicate as

643
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 2: he can be. It reminds me of the Queen, Queen

644
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 2: Elizabeth when she said recollections may vary, because here he

645
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 2: doesn't say she's a bull faced liar. This is not

646
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 2: what she put in her sworn statement, which I would

647
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 2: have run in like a bull in a china shop

648
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 2: With that, he says, obviously, this answer is a little

649
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 2: different from what she's saying. Now, well, that's putting it mildly.

650
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 2: So the judge is questioning juror Z. Listen your or z.

651
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 3: I asked you previously, was your verdict on marks the

652
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 3: second twenty twenty three influenced in any way by communications

653
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:43,919
Speaker 3: from Becky Hill, the clerk of court. You answered that question, yes,

654
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:50,359
Speaker 3: in light of what you said in the affidavit, which

655
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 3: is I had questions about mister Murdock's guilt but voted

656
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 3: guilty because I felt pressured by the other jewelors. Is

657
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 3: that answer that I just read more accurate statement of

658
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:08,800
Speaker 3: how you felt. Yes, yes, ma'am. All right, so you

659
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 3: do stand by the affidavit. Yes, ma'am, very good. Thank you.

660
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 2: What in the hey, Jennifer Woods, after all that ruckus,

661
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 2: She says, yeah, I'm gonna go with the affidavit, which

662
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,320
Speaker 2: says I voted this way because the pressure from pressure

663
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 2: from others giars, not the court clerk.

664
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 4: Right after that entire testimony. That's what she went back to.

665
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:35,720
Speaker 4: But then after she left, her attorney, Joe McCulloch since

666
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 4: a supplemental affidavit regarding you know, a follow up affidavit

667
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 4: regarding her testimony to the court for consideration.

668
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 2: And what did the quote follow up affidavit say, let

669
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 2: me guess, go ahead.

670
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 4: So the follow up affidavit was submitted, and the judge,

671
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 4: you know, obviously very bizarre, said she wanted to clarify

672
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 4: her testimony. As she testified, she felt influenced to find

673
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 4: mister Murdoch guilty by reason of Miss Hill's remarks before

674
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 4: I entered the jury room, and then once deliberations began,

675
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 4: she felt further additional pressure.

676
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 2: Okay, what are we going to do now? Have another hearing?

677
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 2: Please say no, no, Okay. Here's the judge's ruling. Take

678
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 2: a listen to Judge Jane told.

679
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 3: The following is my ruling on the defendant's motion. The

680
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 3: standard of proof. The state contends that, in order to prevail,

681
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:39,439
Speaker 3: the defendant must show one that the clerk of court

682
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 3: made an improper comment or propounded an improper question to

683
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 3: the member of the jury to a member of the

684
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 3: jury who rendered the verdict two. Defendant must further show

685
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 3: that miss Hill's improper comment or question actually influenced the

686
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 3: juror's verdict, got it and more?

687
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:03,839
Speaker 2: What does the judge think? Spin it out?

688
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 3: Judge, I simply do not believe that the authority of

689
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 3: Ayshire Comana Supreme Court requires a new trial in a

690
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 3: very lengthy trial such as this on the strength of

691
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:22,959
Speaker 3: some fleeting and foolish comments by a publicity influenced clerk

692
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 3: of court. This is a matter within the discretion of

693
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 3: the trial judge, and I am the trial judge at

694
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 3: this moment. I do not feel that I abuse my

695
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 3: discretion when I find the defendant's motion for a new

696
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:45,720
Speaker 3: trial on the factual record before me must be denied,

697
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 3: and it is so ordered.

698
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 2: Tim Jensen, Yes, no, did the.

699
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 5: Judge get it right to that juror say that she

700
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 5: was pressured by the jurors. I think the judge has

701
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,959
Speaker 5: a sound factual reason to support her dec.

702
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 2: Just so you know, Tim, since I know you graduate

703
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 2: from graduated from law school in a veteran childlawyr, I

704
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 2: knew you would not answer in one word. Doctor Bethany Marshall,

705
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 2: Yes no, did the judge get it right. No, oh lord, Okay.

706
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 2: Chris McDonough did the judge get it right?

707
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 7: Absolutely? But she set up an appellate challenge?

708
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 2: Hm, Doctor j Free did the judge get it right?

709
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 6: Absolutely?

710
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 2: Jennifer Wood did the judge get it right?

711
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 4: I agree with Chris, she got it right, but I

712
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 4: believe she set up a very good appellate challenge and

713
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 4: is expecting it.

714
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,800
Speaker 2: If there's any way for Alex Murdog to appeal this,

715
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 2: he will. So, while all of you legal eagles may

716
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 2: breathe a sigh of relief that there's not a new

717
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 2: trial that has been granted to Alex Murdog, sadly, let

718
00:42:54,560 --> 00:43:01,439
Speaker 2: me report the truth. It ain't over yet. Goodbye friend,