1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to the MLK Tapes, a production of I Heart 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: Radio and Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in 3 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:11,039 Speaker 1: this podcast are solely those of the podcast author or 4 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: individuals participating in the podcast, and do not represent those 5 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: of I Heart Media, Tenderfoot TV, or their employees. This 6 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: episode contains strong language. Listener discretion is advised. Now, Johnny 7 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: Barger was my partner. We were policemen together. He's the 8 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 1: one who introduced me to Frank Liberto. We used to 9 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: go there Cloud often. It was real good friends. Of course, 10 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: I got to be pretty good friends with Frank myself 11 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: because he could do you a lot of good in Memphis, 12 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: especially on the police department. As we heard once before, 13 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: this is a recreation of Lloyd Jowers telling Dexter King 14 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: how it was he came to be friends with a 15 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: guy named Frank Liberto. As Jowers says, if you were 16 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: a cop, Loberto could do you a lot of good. 17 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,119 Speaker 1: And Jowers knew that firsthand because Loberto saved him from 18 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: being fired when he had been found drunk on the job. 19 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: Jowers would say on ABC Prime Time that the reason 20 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 1: Liberto was able to bring him into the plot against 21 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: King was because Jowers owed him Alberto don of a 22 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: large favor. Sowed in the favor I called the Union 23 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 1: Hall A says a matter of life and death. I said, 24 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: I think these people of planning to kill Dr King. 25 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: The authorities were parade. Oh, we found a gun that 26 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: James l Ray bought in Birmingham that killed Dr King. 27 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: Except it wasn't the gun that killed Dr King. James 28 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: l Ray was upon for the official story from My 29 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: Heart Radio in Tender for TV. The plan was to 30 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: get King to the city because they wanted it handled 31 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: in Memphis for dead in him could handle it. And 32 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: I have lived with it alone, monsieur, and they they 33 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,959 Speaker 1: skiff for me. The Lord told me to not the word. 34 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: I've been wanting to tell it all my life. I'm 35 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: Bill Clayburg and this is the MLK tapes. As we 36 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 1: just heard. Lloyd Jowers on National TV said that Frank 37 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:30,959 Speaker 1: Liberto was able to bring him into the plot to 38 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: kill King because he owed him a favor. But murder 39 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: seems a little beyond what you Owers should have owed. 40 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: If all Leberto had done was put in a good word, 41 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: so what was it? Bill Pepper thinks Liberto might have 42 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 1: removed and disposed of a man who Jowers killed because 43 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,239 Speaker 1: he caught him in bed with Betty Spaces. Bill says 44 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: Betty told him about this, though I couldn't find it 45 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: on any tape. Of course, the debt may have been 46 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: something more common, because along with this problem with alcohol, 47 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:03,839 Speaker 1: Jowers liked gamble. Apparently he old Liberto or we're still 48 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,239 Speaker 1: Liberto's boss, a pile of money, more money than he 49 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: could repay. So for the moment, let's accept that as 50 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: the leverage. But what did Jowers have that Liberto wanted. 51 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,799 Speaker 1: Here's what jowers attorney Lewis Garrison had to say. I 52 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 1: came down, we had someone to do assassination. He thought 53 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 1: Jowers would be the person who do it. So that's what. So, 54 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: according to Garrison, Frank Liberto picked Owers because he thought 55 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: he was the man who could do the job. I 56 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: have a good opinion of Lewis Garrison, but I think 57 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: he has this piece of the puzzle wrong. I think 58 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: Liberto picked ours because the back door to his grill 59 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: opened onto a brush covered yard directly across from the 60 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: Lorraine Motel. And Liberto, who knew about these things, apparently 61 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: assured Jowers that the police would not be a problem. 62 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: Here's what Jowers said about that again on ABC. He 63 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: said I wouldn't be there, so they won't be there 64 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: that night. Did he say there would be a decoy there? Yeah, 65 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: it'll be set up, but look like someone else done 66 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: the killing. So at this point, if we're following the signpost, 67 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: the plot goes back to a wholesale produce guy who 68 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: is more than a wholesale produce guy. So who can 69 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: tell us about Frank Leberto? This is just what Dexter 70 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: King and Andy Young wanted to know when they met 71 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: with Jowers and Garrison in some motel room out on 72 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: the highway, the same meeting we listened to in the 73 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: last episode, and Jowers told them about some woman named 74 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 1: Nevada Whitlock Addison, who Frank Leberto liked a lot and 75 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: who we saw frequently at the end of the day. Again, 76 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: for clarity, we are recreating Jowers words. Miss Whitlock owned 77 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 1: a restaurant out on Highland hots On Making Road. I believe, 78 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 1: I believe that's where it was. Frank used to stop 79 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 1: in there all the time. The fact is he tried 80 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: to go to bed with her all the time. Miss Whitlock. 81 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: He may have. I don't know. Anyway, he'd get old up, 82 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: get drunk up, and he'd do a lot of talk. 83 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 1: So what kind of talking did Frank Liberto do when 84 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 1: he was drunk up with Levada Addison? If we're talking 85 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: about the King murder, it wasn't much. But there was 86 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: one time. Here's a reading of a deposition Livada Addison 87 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: gave to Bill Pepper. I had a TV up in 88 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 1: the front part of the pizza parlor, and we were 89 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: sitting at a table and something came on the TV 90 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 1: about Martin Luther King. And I don't recall what it was, 91 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: but he said, in a low voice to me, he said, 92 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: I had Martin Luther King killed. I said, don't be 93 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: telling me anything like that. I don't want to hear it, 94 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: and I don't believe it anyway, and I got up 95 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: and walked away. Livada Addison ended the conversation when she 96 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: walked away, but it disturbed her enough that she told 97 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: her eighteen year old son, Nathan about it. Nathan had 98 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: his own relationship with a Toad or Mr Frank, as 99 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: he called him, a relationship he described from the witness 100 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:09,919 Speaker 1: stand at the civil trial it's frashing myself with friends. 101 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 1: He would come to my mother's restaurant on the day 102 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 1: the basis, early the morning, late in the evening he'd 103 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 1: come back, and I spent most of my time, really, 104 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: even the evening time. At the time, I've been performing 105 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: in the lost days and I'm just Frank. He would 106 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: come in and drink beer a lot, and I knew 107 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 1: how to play a song, an Italian song on the 108 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: guitar of Manda Guenian, and I used to playing the 109 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: song and he used to like this what I'd playing, 110 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: and he would tit his money in and then he 111 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: got to where was Frank's I had a little small 112 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 1: breaks combo when he knew give me jobs. So that performing. 113 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: So Mr Frank and Nathan became friendly. But what did 114 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: they talk about? That's what Bill Pepper asked at the trial. Well, 115 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,119 Speaker 1: I asked you some stuff that led up to him 116 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: telling me that he came. But uh, I've heard that 117 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: ans of mom, And I asked, you can see the money, 118 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: and he he didn't say yes to know, he answered me, 119 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: But I asked him myself, what is the month? Is 120 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: it a bunch of bad guys that sit around at 121 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: the table and scheme up something mean to do this. No, 122 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: it's a bunch of business men to take care of business. 123 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: Nathan wasn't sure what to make of that, but he 124 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: was upset when he learned that Liberto had bribed to 125 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: his mother about the killing of King. I would regularly 126 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: bright when he showed up to the Pitts poker and 127 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: this ad just Frank to kill Barnloke. The King glared 128 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: at me. He said, you can talk to your mother. 129 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: I said yeah. He said you wired. I didn't even 130 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: want to get to that. No, I'm not wired. I 131 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: thought he was talking about it not taking in feather, 132 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: mean bills were wired up. No, I'm not crazy. Uh 133 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: you know he said there he says is I don't 134 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: want to offend anybody about saying he told me. He said, 135 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: I didn't kill the nigger, but I had it done. 136 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: And I said, what about the other son of a 137 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: bitch out they're taking credit for He says, ah, he 138 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: wouldn't done what I trovelger from Assuri. He was a 139 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: front man, and I didn't know what that mean, because 140 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: front man me means something different than what he was 141 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: thinking about it. I said what he said, I set 142 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: up at me. I said, why did you kill the preacher? Forward? 143 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:39,439 Speaker 1: He says, boy, you don't even need to be here 144 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: about this. He said, oh, to say nothing. He stood up. 145 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 1: He actbody's gonna slap me upside the head. So I 146 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: stood up there and me and they were looking at 147 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: each other, and he's got this glare and look on 148 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: his eye, and I can tell he was thinking about hit. 149 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: And by that time the phone ring, So I spoke 150 00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: to the national phone and I'm busy with a pizza 151 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: stuff and I looked up. He's gone. He left his 152 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:06,719 Speaker 1: spurs as everyone'll tell you what's ahead for. But there 153 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: was no damage done. Liberto was back the next day 154 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 1: and there was no further talk about King. Nathan. Whitlock 155 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: then told the court about something that happened at the 156 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: restaurant that for a brief moment, had Liberto and Nathan 157 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: talking about something that Liberto wanted him to do. Some 158 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: guy came in. He looked kind of like John went 159 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: to the big guy read Nick. Guy walked to my 160 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: mother's restaurant, bring the beer. Mom runs over to the 161 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: door and she says, you can't bring up beer in here, 162 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,719 Speaker 1: but I said, and he just he says, I might 163 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: just buy this motherfucking place, and back came mam. When 164 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: he did, I walked around the counter, was a nastick 165 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: and I'm not fired from the tail and knock him 166 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: through the front door. Kid across here buzz the out 167 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: and real bad buzzetel Nathan Whitlock damn near killed the 168 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 1: guy and would have if someone hadn't intervened. And fortunately 169 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:05,680 Speaker 1: for Nate, Liberto's friendship was enough to ensure there would 170 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: be no reprisal. But more than that, what Nathan had 171 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: done had made an impression on Mr Frank and the 172 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: next time they met, Loberto started poking around, asking Nate 173 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: if for money he might consider killing a few people 174 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: that needed killing. He said, to do it again. I said, 175 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 1: I guess also might come and bit a base party. 176 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: Boh my eyes and yeah turn up and he says, 177 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: just didn't gentile said to him? He said, multiples over around, 178 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 1: We're going to the bat there on the flat over 179 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: emotional over for and to do it with some length, 180 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:48,319 Speaker 1: And I said, I was money. He said fire. Nathan 181 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: got out of the conversation without agreeing to anything, but 182 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: every now and then he felt the stomach turn as 183 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 1: he found himself thinking about it. Then a few weeks later, 184 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: the phone rang at the restaurant. It was Frank Liberto 185 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: and he asked to speak to Nathan. Loberto didn't never 186 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: call Nathan on the phone, and Nathan didn't know what 187 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:09,839 Speaker 1: this could be about, but he knew what he hoped 188 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 1: it was not about. He said hello and heard Liberto's 189 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: deep voice. He said, I got a job for you tonight. 190 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: Nate felt his pulse quicken and he's thinking. Nate kept listening, 191 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: trying to understand what was being asked of him. Loberto 192 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: said something about meeting down at the Civic Center and 193 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: to bring his drummer friend. Suddenly it came to him, 194 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: he's about yea for Sheriff Bill Morris's Christo. So Nathan 195 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 1: Woodlock played at Sheriff Morris's Christmas party and Frank Loberto 196 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: never asked him then or later to kill anybody. The 197 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: next summer, Nathan went to Canada, and when he came back, 198 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: his mother told him that Frank Liberto had died. MH. 199 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: Solvada Addison and Nathan Whitlock were people who knew the 200 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: real Frank Liberto and Mr Frank really did kind of 201 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: tell him that he played a part in the killing 202 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: of King, but that was years after the fact, and 203 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: maybe he was just making it up. So is there 204 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: someone closer to the crime who we might consult about Liberto? 205 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: Turns out there is how close to the crime was 206 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 1: he about half an hour away. This man, by chance 207 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: happened to be standing near Liberto at a crucial time 208 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: and he heard a few things he was not supposed 209 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: to hear, and at that time he would badly relive 210 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,040 Speaker 1: never been reached to be out of the book. It 211 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: was in the spraying of nineteen nine and doing it 212 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: spraying a nineteen nine on up until the summer, we 213 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 1: made a great effort to get Naples the Reggist to vote, 214 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:18,959 Speaker 1: and doing it summer we've got a small number risik in. 215 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: On August twitter, nineteen fift nine, we had a primary 216 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: election and they refused to let us vote. The Democratic 217 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: committed refused to let us vote. That's the voice of 218 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: John McFerrin, who was raised in Fayette County, Tennessee, just 219 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: east of Memphis. As a young man, he served in 220 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: the Army during the Second World War, and, like many 221 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: other black men, his time in the service had brought 222 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: him to other places and shown him other things which 223 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 1: made him less able to accept what he had always 224 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: known in Fayette County, like being denied the right to vote. 225 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 1: As McFerrin just described, even after they'd gotten a small 226 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,199 Speaker 1: number of blacks to register, they were still not out 227 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: to vote, and the reaction in the white community was swift. 228 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: The White Citizens Council came up with the idea that 229 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: any black person who tried to register or vote should 230 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: be thrown off their land. Most black farmers were sharecroppers, 231 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: so they didn't own the land they worked. And it 232 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: wasn't just a threat. The evictions began. They were making 233 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: them all moved. And they got together and see it, 234 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: and they was coming to us, what we're gonna do 235 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: with all these folks that make the move over the land, 236 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: and they got no where to go. Then the group 237 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: and myself come up with the idea of my intent 238 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: and we bought label lay aborted ten from level jumpyard 239 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: on Serious Street. There's armored teens and we put up 240 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: the armored tents and later we named ten City. That's 241 00:14:55,920 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: how Ten Cities started. In a year's time, city grew 242 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: to hold over three people, including children who had a 243 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: canvas roof over their heads, but no income and little 244 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: to eat. But that wasn't the end of it. The 245 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: leaders of the group were not allowed to buy food, 246 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: or gasoline or much of anything else, not only in 247 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: Fayette County, but in Memphis as well. John McFerrin had 248 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: a small store that sold to local blacks. It was 249 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: a service to the community, pretending to be a business. 250 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: And suddenly John McFerrin had access to nothing. Would it 251 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: sell us, no games, would sellers, no food? They didn't 252 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: say a none need roots. That was called leaves. They 253 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: had a list. There's this clop club, clan and citizen 254 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: council pay us to rank, and a list contain named 255 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: and called the trollmakers with ex is behind McFerrin was 256 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: one of those with an ex behind his name. But 257 00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: he did find a few sources who would sell to 258 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: him on the sly, a guy with a bread truck 259 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: that would meet him out on the road, and a 260 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: few other people who would sell to him after hours. 261 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: But then a court order came down saying that blacks 262 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: had the right to vote, and a truce of sorts 263 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: was called. Because the harsh conditions of Tense City were 264 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: beginning to make Memphis look bad, and a lot of 265 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: land was lying fallow. So the farmers were allowed to 266 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: return and things died back to the not very nice 267 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: way they had been before. McFerrin went back to his 268 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: store and was able to purchase meat at Morrel Meat 269 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: Company and his vegetables from L n L Produce, a 270 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: wholesale market run by Frank Liberto, and that's where he 271 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: happened to be at on the day Martin Luther King 272 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: was shot. The following is from John McFerrin's testimony at 273 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: the civil trial, in answering questions put to him by 274 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: Bill Pepper, would you describe what the layout of the 275 00:16:53,680 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: place was? And once you did? When arrive on the 276 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: right side, there's a little small oafice. And when I 277 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 1: got intended feet of this office, by Latch was standing up. 278 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: James Latch was Luberto's partner and the other L and 279 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,479 Speaker 1: L and L Produce, And McFerrin always tried to avoid him. 280 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: Mr lest he star around his neck like this, and 281 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 1: he'd always be in the dream. But Mr Pako was 282 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: always friend. I would let stay wee bumping good, and 283 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 1: then we're happy about the phone man. And when the 284 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 1: phone rang last Victor, that's it, that's him again. He 285 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: gave it from Mr Paco and mcquaio said, shooting in 286 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: the You can just say what he said, shoot design 287 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:59,639 Speaker 1: is on the back well. At that time they need 288 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: to head noticed me and I was just standing up 289 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: a little close to them and looking. Then he looked 290 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: around and see me. Then he said, gone, get you 291 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: munch of that. I won't only ain't gotten munch of that. 292 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: Then when I was coming back out, the phone rang again. 293 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 1: Let's fixture go and give it to Mr Baker, and 294 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,640 Speaker 1: Mr Baker told it go get brother and you all 295 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:35,120 Speaker 1: and get his five dollar not At the time, McFerrin 296 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: couldn't make sense out of what he had heard, but 297 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: that changed quickly. And when I got home, my wife 298 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: called and said, do you know dr Game you gotta kill? 299 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: I said, I know it. It all come back to 300 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 1: me in my mind where I heard, he says, when 301 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 1: they're told, I knew. Mcferren couldn't forget what he heard, 302 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,719 Speaker 1: but it frightened him, so he didn't say anything to anyone. 303 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: But the man who had been murdered was Martin Luther King, 304 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: and McFerrin knew that King deserved something more from him 305 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: than silence. So two days later, McFerrin called a white 306 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:16,160 Speaker 1: Methodist minister he knew, the Reverend Baxton Bryant, and told 307 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 1: him that he had heard something about the King killing. 308 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:20,719 Speaker 1: He said he was afraid to go to the police 309 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: and didn't know what to do. Reverend Bryant suggested that 310 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: they meet the next afternoon. Before we take you to 311 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,439 Speaker 1: that meeting, it is important to understand who Reverend Bryant 312 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: was and why McFerrin trusted him. At the time of 313 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: the sanitation strike in Memphis, Reverend Bryant was the director 314 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 1: of the Tennessee Citizens Union, a group dedicated to improving 315 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 1: communication between the black and white communities. At that time, 316 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: they weren't having much luck. This is how Reverend Bryant 317 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: summed it up in an interview he gave at Rhodes 318 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,719 Speaker 1: College just two months after King was killed. Nest had 319 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: taken a lot of pride. It was paternalist. They had 320 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: laid some games, but it was raised the racist to 321 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 1: the core is what Brian called it. And although he 322 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: was white, he knew what that looked like. He had 323 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: grown up dur poor and rural Arkansas, one of thirteen children, 324 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: and like most of the blacks there, they didn't own 325 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: their own land. He felt that the words of Jesus 326 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: and their promise applied to everyone, black or white, and 327 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: that made him a little different from a lot of 328 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: the other white preachers in the Deep South. After he 329 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 1: had moved to Memphis and became the director of the 330 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: Citizens Union, Bryant played the role of go between in 331 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: the tents stuttering negotiations between the city and the striking 332 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:48,439 Speaker 1: sanitation workers. He won the respect of both sides by 333 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: not tiptoeing around. What follows is his account of rather 334 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: heated private conversation that he had with Mayor Loeb a 335 00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: couple of weeks before King was killed. I found out 336 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 1: I could say anything in this world that I wanted 337 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: to Familior and continuous Prince. I guess I appealed to 338 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 1: him because the Minister and I pressing with him. You know, 339 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: he didn't wouldn't have to be the ordinary, you know, 340 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:22,400 Speaker 1: or Patsy preaching. You know you what he would tell me, Baxton, 341 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: all I've got to give my kids is my name. 342 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 1: My old dad taught me to be honest, and I've 343 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 1: said I wouldn't do it, and that I give you 344 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 1: my word, it's my word. I'm not going but I've 345 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,119 Speaker 1: said I wouldn't recognize it, evenion, I'm not going to 346 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: recognize the Reverend Bryant saw lope as hiding behind his 347 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: father and his kids, and he wasn't having it. Why 348 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: can't you see, Henry, that thing's man. They want to 349 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: be mean. They don't want you to do something far, 350 00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: They want to do something for them, saying, do you 351 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: know what what happened? If you recognize the union in 352 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: every one of those thirteen, you know there'd be a 353 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 1: man said at the end of the table tonight. Now 354 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: this is the stuff, Henry, that you've got to have 355 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: to be at home. But Daniel, so don't you sit 356 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 1: there and tell me you ba this one, you big bone, 357 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:29,360 Speaker 1: you rawhide bast don't look me in the ay until 358 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 1: the you're old day ever told you to destroy the 359 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: manhood and the guts and the integrity and the courage 360 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: and willed man down the pons. A couple of weeks later, 361 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: Bryant attended a memorable meeting of the white ministers and 362 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: Black ministers at the Episcopal Church in Memphis. Bryant walked 363 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: over to the meeting with the Reverend Ralph Jackson, an 364 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: outspoken leader in the sanitation strike. Bryant and Jackson sat 365 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: down together, and Rabbi Wax, speaking for the white ministers, 366 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:08,719 Speaker 1: started things off, said I'm at bat. Wax got up 367 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: and opened the meeting and said, I think we ought 368 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 1: to limit this discussion to try to find out what 369 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: the issues are. Ralph Jackson came on. Ralph jumped up 370 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:29,920 Speaker 1: and said, you trick. I fought a long laught my 371 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:37,640 Speaker 1: white breath had decided to have. Therefore, black, you don't 372 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 1: want to take me in you and me that thing. 373 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,400 Speaker 1: What we're going to discuss is what the insue gore 374 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 1: ll all of you b bastards and sat oh nor 375 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: act and not done a god damn thing. We've had 376 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 1: thirteen under dog, and that the issue. Reverend Jackson walked out, 377 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: but he had shaken the room, and by the end 378 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: of the meeting, the ministers had decided that they would 379 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,679 Speaker 1: meet with Mayor Loeb as a group to see if 380 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: some compromise could be reached, but it was too late. 381 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 1: The very next day, Martin Luther King was shot and 382 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:29,920 Speaker 1: killed at the Lorraine Motel. We've taken a few moments 383 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: to follow Reverend Bryant as he moved about in the 384 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: racial cauldron that was Memphis, Tennessee. We did this because 385 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: Bryant was the minister who John McFerrin approached when he 386 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,160 Speaker 1: was afraid to go to the police. And I think 387 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: this choice demonstrates McFerrin's sincerity, which has constantly been challenged 388 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 1: over the years. He didn't just go to someone, He 389 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: went to a man with unquestioned moral credentials. Three days 390 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: after King was shot, John McFerrin went over to Reverend 391 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: Bryant's house. This is Bryant's recollection of what McFerrin reported 392 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:09,719 Speaker 1: to him. He uh was doing some shopping, buying some things, 393 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 1: and as I understand it, walked into a place of 394 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 1: business and in another room, in a little office, he 395 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: heard quite an angry conversation between the man on the 396 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:28,719 Speaker 1: phone and whoever he was talking to. Evidently the person 397 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: on the other on the phone was running some money, 398 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,399 Speaker 1: and he said, you can't get your money till the 399 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 1: job is completed, and then the statements you can shoot 400 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: the s O beyond the balcony later in the conversation 401 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: indicated that he was not to return to this particular 402 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: business to pick up the money, but that he could 403 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: pick it up from his brother in New Orleans. This 404 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: pretty much was the substance of the conversation. McFerrin told 405 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: and Bryant that he was afraid to go to the police, 406 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: that they had never been anything but nasty and threatening 407 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: to him. After hearing his story, Bryan said he thought 408 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: McFerrin did need to talk to the authorities, but perhaps 409 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: the FBI might be the better place to start. Bryan 410 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 1: said he would make sure that McFerrin went there with 411 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: legal counsel, and he called his friend, attorney David Kwood, 412 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,919 Speaker 1: and that evening McFerrin and Kwood went to see the FBI. 413 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,679 Speaker 1: McFerrin told them what he had heard. I gave him 414 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: the same detailed lead with me to real a little 415 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,919 Speaker 1: save that The next day more FBI came to McFerrin's 416 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: house and they stayed for hours, asking the same questions 417 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 1: over and over, seemingly frustrated that McFerrin's answers would not change. 418 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 1: But along the way something was added to the story, 419 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 1: because a day or two after the assassination, a police 420 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 1: sketch of the alleged assassin, who was said to be 421 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: one Eric Galt, was published in the local paper. The 422 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 1: sketch was to I from descriptions offered by a few 423 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: witnesses who claimed to have seen someone fleeing the scene, 424 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: a sketch that didn't look much like James Earl Ray. 425 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: After seeing it, McFerrin told the FBI he thought the 426 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,400 Speaker 1: guy might be someone he had seen working at Liberto's 427 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: the previous year. McFerrin said the guy he remembered might 428 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: have been of Cuban or Mexican descent, not even close 429 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 1: to a description of James Earl Ray. Once it was 430 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 1: established that the police were really looking for Ray and 431 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,119 Speaker 1: not some guy named Golf, and they had an actual 432 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 1: photo to work with, they returned to question McFerrin. The 433 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 1: Department of Justice report released in June of two thousand 434 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:46,199 Speaker 1: tells us what happened now, Quoting the FBI, showed him 435 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: an array of six photographs which included Ray's picture. McFerrin 436 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 1: excluded Ray and instead tentatively identified three others who did 437 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: not resemble Ray as the man who had worked for 438 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: Liberto in any normal police lineup using photos, McFerrin's exclusion 439 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: of the photo of Ray had to mean that the 440 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,119 Speaker 1: man McFerrin was remembering was not James Earl Ray or 441 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:15,640 Speaker 1: someone who looked like him. Case closed. Beyond that, it's 442 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 1: not exactly clear how McFerrin could be said to be 443 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: claiming that three different men could be the man who 444 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:25,160 Speaker 1: worked for Liberto. Best guess was that McFerrin said these 445 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: three were the ones who most resembled the guy. How 446 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: else do you make sense of that sentence? So McFerrin 447 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: remembered some guy who worked for Liberto who shared some 448 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: likeness to the police sketch of the missing assassin, and 449 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: the guy was certainly not James Earl Ray. Nevertheless, this 450 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: whole six photo game of whack amole would be termed 451 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: McFerrin's misidentification, and it would become the easy shorthand way 452 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: to dismiss McFerrin's story, which has been done ever since. 453 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: With McFerrin, there are basically three possibilities. Either he's telling 454 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: the truth, or he made up the story, or he 455 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: was somehow mistaken. I think because of who he was 456 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 1: and that he sought out Reverend Bryant to tell what 457 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: he heard, it is safe to say that McFerrin had 458 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: not invented his story. Is it possible that he didn't 459 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: hear what he thought he heard? Yes, it is possible, 460 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 1: but shoot the son of the bitch on the balcony 461 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,719 Speaker 1: and get your money from my brother in New Orleans. 462 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 1: These are rather memorable declarations. Nevertheless, the FBI came to 463 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: a quick determination that McFerrin was not to be believed. 464 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: What did Reverend Bryant think about that? Last Wednesday morning? 465 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 1: The FBI told me they didn't believe the story related 466 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: in any way to the king's assassin and they were 467 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 1: through with it. So what what's your reaction to this? 468 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: How do you feel about this? Well, of course I'm 469 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: no detective and don't try to be one, but I 470 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: wasn't satisfied with it. It makes sense to me that 471 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 1: the man in the completeness of the story, I've heard 472 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: him tell it a number of times. He he doesn't 473 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: vary in the story, and there are other elements in 474 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 1: it that that my mind is not at peace at all, 475 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: that there's not not something here that needs to be 476 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: someone needs to take a deeper look at. So the 477 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 1: FBI told Reverend Bryant that McFerrin's story had nothing at 478 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: all to do with the killing of King. What a 479 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 1: strange thing to say. From that, I suppose we may 480 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: presume that someone else was to be shot on the balcony. 481 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,479 Speaker 1: But it didn't much matter because after Ray was captured 482 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: and the lone assassin's story took cold, nobody much cared 483 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: about what a black store owner thought he heard. So 484 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: is there anyone else who can tell us about Frank Liberto? 485 00:30:49,400 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: Was he really just a produced guy? What was the 486 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: role of Frank Leberton? You know me, and you know 487 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: just rumors are like bottles. Everybody's going. The old man 488 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: was good to me. He set me up in the 489 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 1: cocaine business, and he just give me the melons and 490 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: in front of me the dope. This is Ronnie Lee Atkins, 491 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: remembering how Frank Liberto helped him start a business on 492 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 1: a street corner in Memphis, and how a judge who 493 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: was friendly with his father was quite certain that Ronnie 494 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 1: Lee sometimes called there wasn't out there selling dope, man. 495 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: I had it. I've wedged him out and butt the 496 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: baggas cocon there and we had watermelons for seven dollars, 497 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: and then we had watermelons for two hundred dollars. And 498 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: at its corner of summer in bergins and so I'm 499 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 1: selling these ellens and this Niche comes by and I 500 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: was setting him some mellons and he goes calls the law, 501 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 1: and so I go into this big star to get 502 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: Sherrian me a drink. And when I started back out 503 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 1: the door, looked the tax squad done his share. Well. 504 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: They had her with her legs wrapped around the front 505 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 1: tire and her arms wrapped around the front tire and 506 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: was holding a shotgun on her, going word bear, and 507 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 1: she's going, I don't know, I ain't seen that's on, bitch, 508 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 1: And she turned and she's looking at me coming out, 509 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 1: And so I just cut and went through the alley 510 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: and went on and went. In a matter of fact, 511 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: I went to the little house and climbed on top 512 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: of it there on one row, and I just lay 513 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: there until the heat was off. They just carried her 514 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: here to jail. You know. I told Mama call the bobsman, 515 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: and she called Blue Barren and Tyrone ended up calling 516 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: the judge and he said, bears awaity, and we'll let 517 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 1: her out and we'll take care of this later on. 518 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 1: You know, I can't that boy ain't after a little dope. 519 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 1: At this telling, these memories were decades old. It had 520 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: been more than forty years since king assassination, when Ronnie 521 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: Lee Atkins came from Texas back to Memphis to testify 522 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 1: about what he knew of the murder of Dr. Martin 523 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: Luther King, and Atkins knew a lot because, as he 524 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: would reveal, his entire family, his father, mother, older brother, 525 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 1: and ron himself played active roles in the killing of King. 526 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 1: His father, Russell Atkins, Sr. Was in charge of heavy 527 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 1: equipment for the Memphis Department of Public Works, but as 528 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: far reaching power came from his unique position in the community. 529 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 1: He was a thirty second degree Mason, active in the 530 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 1: clan and the unofficial head of the pervasive crime spree 531 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 1: in Memphis sometimes known as Dixie Mafia. He had helped 532 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: install Henry Loebe as mayor, brought in former FBI Area 533 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: Director Frank Holliman as the head of police and fire, 534 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: and if that were not enough, he had a personal 535 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 1: friendship with Clyde Toulson, Hoover's number two at the FBI. 536 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: If any one in Memphis needed to get something done, 537 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: Russell Atkins was the one to see, and for the 538 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 1: ten years leading up to the murder of King, Ronnie 539 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 1: Lee Atkins had a front row seat for it all. 540 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 1: I was born in in fifty two, and in sixty 541 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,480 Speaker 1: I started getting privy to a lot of business. Of 542 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 1: course I could open my pile or say anything, you know, 543 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: but I was able to sit and listen. Lad I 544 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: was to bring the coffee and the donuts. If the 545 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,800 Speaker 1: corn bread and butter milk was ready, I'd go in 546 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: there and get it and bring it out to them. 547 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: If the PM and the greens was ready, they'd put 548 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 1: it on plates and the women folk and I had 549 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,719 Speaker 1: carried out to the little house, and then I'd burned 550 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 1: down and get the coffee. And you know, I learned 551 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:47,800 Speaker 1: how to run a percolator probably when I was started 552 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 1: four years hold them. Atkins was giving this testimony in 553 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 1: two thousand nine by way of a deposition that would 554 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 1: be legally attached to the corporate seedings brought by Coretta 555 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:02,239 Speaker 1: Scott King a decade earlier. In the room that looked 556 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 1: out at Memphis from the twentie floor was Atkins lawyer 557 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: Stephen Tolin, court reporter Brian Dominski, and Bill Pepper, the 558 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 1: attorney for Mrs King, all appropriately dressed for the occasion. 559 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 1: In their presence with his head scarf, white Beard and 560 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 1: T shirt tightly fit on a full body. Atkins looked 561 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 1: like a good natured, will fed biker. Pepper would ask 562 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 1: the questions this day, and Atkins would answer, you went 563 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,800 Speaker 1: to high school here in Memphis, to several high schools. 564 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 1: You went to several high school went to team schools. 565 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 1: And I don't know tanners way of years. Okay, so 566 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,719 Speaker 1: you had problems in the schools, sir, I'll just like 567 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:49,360 Speaker 1: to five have no problems, you know, I'll tell his girls. 568 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 1: And you know, did you graduate from high school? You 569 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 1: dropped out of the school. How went back school? I 570 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 1: was playing football where Kingsbury and uh I went back 571 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: and and coach brought hey telling me to get out 572 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,399 Speaker 1: and run some laps and stuff. And I didn't run. 573 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: You know, he wanted me to run. I wanted to 574 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 1: study and running, you know, little man. And you know, 575 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,880 Speaker 1: so anyway he told me, he said catch hole. And 576 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 1: when I got up in there, I had a little 577 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 1: shorts home a little ten years and all that and 578 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 1: I've been over and you know, he wo my ass 579 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 1: went and boards within my holes in him and cut 580 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,839 Speaker 1: me pretty good. And um, I asked, is done? He said, yeah, 581 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: I said, the last time you'll do that. And I 582 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:29,760 Speaker 1: went home. Next day, I come back with a pistol 583 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,840 Speaker 1: and him and uh, the high school principal, Mr Billingsley 584 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,759 Speaker 1: was down there by the chow hall. And so I 585 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:40,400 Speaker 1: come in the front door, and I had that his 586 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 1: little danger in my pocket with a handful of shells, 587 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 1: and I got off about four good shots and cleared 588 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,640 Speaker 1: the home and a couple of holes of a sitting 589 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 1: and and uh then they jumped in. I ended up 590 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:58,800 Speaker 1: that juvenile court. Ronnie Leeatkins had an unusual upbringing because 591 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 1: he was the son of sel Atkins. He got to 592 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 1: sit at an early age in the back of the 593 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 1: room during Mason and clan meetings, some of which were 594 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 1: held in his father's house, and others that were held 595 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 1: at the nearby Baptist church. When the rallies were held 596 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 1: upstairs at the church, they were referred to as prayer meetings. 597 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:21,839 Speaker 1: Can you discuss your dad and his associates and did 598 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 1: their relationship with the clan? Were they active clan members? 599 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,879 Speaker 1: And they are active? They were active clan members long 600 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,920 Speaker 1: as I can remember, yes, Or was it a particular 601 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 1: chapter of the clan? Or was it with his tennessee? 602 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,799 Speaker 1: Was it an invisible empire, you know, yes, sir, nights 603 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,360 Speaker 1: of the ku Klos clan. And did they have regular 604 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 1: clan meetings? Yes, sir, Were you ever allowed to attend 605 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,360 Speaker 1: any of those? They called him rallies this what they 606 00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: call him, you know, or prairie meeting. We're going to 607 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 1: prayer meeting, you know. I mean they'd sit around and 608 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 1: you know, now I was a kid, Now I was 609 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 1: taking all of us in, and and uh, you know, 610 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 1: when you're kids, you pretty go boar at least I will, 611 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,600 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, everybody else? Why not by Osbordy Guild. 612 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: Were the the clan members your father and other clan members? 613 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:14,799 Speaker 1: Were they also Masons? Were they all Masons? I don't 614 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 1: load on. I'd say the majority of more they were members. 615 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,719 Speaker 1: And which lodge did they belong Summer Avenue Lodge? How 616 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:24,920 Speaker 1: far did your father go on the right second? He 617 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:29,440 Speaker 1: went to the thirty second and both my grandfather's. The 618 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,960 Speaker 1: Freemasons or Mason's are a secret society that date back 619 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:36,040 Speaker 1: to the Stonemasons, who built the great cathedrals in Europe 620 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 1: in the eighteenth and nineteenth century. Men of stature might 621 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,960 Speaker 1: be secret members of the Masons and be guided by 622 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:47,520 Speaker 1: high moral principles George Washington, for example, For most of 623 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,839 Speaker 1: their history, the Masons were opposed by the Catholic Church. 624 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,760 Speaker 1: An anti Catholic bias was surely present in the Memphis 625 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,440 Speaker 1: Mason's in the nineteen sixties. To be a thirty second 626 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,439 Speaker 1: degree Mason meant that you were at the very top 627 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 1: of this men only society. The meetings were highly ritualized, 628 00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,759 Speaker 1: with symbols and code, but an outsider might regard them 629 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,400 Speaker 1: as simply as an excuse for men to gather, drink, 630 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 1: and engage in hocus pocus. But as Ronnie Lee would explain, 631 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,759 Speaker 1: the clan and the Mason's while sharing some members, we're 632 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 1: not the same. Let me tell you how this clan 633 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 1: and masny deal works. Let's say we got some timber 634 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 1: we won't cut. Well, if you just don't care about 635 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,759 Speaker 1: your land, you're gonna send the clan in there and say, 636 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,560 Speaker 1: I want this timber cut out, clear out, just two acres. Well, 637 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 1: they ain't gonna lead nothing standing are. They're gonna cut 638 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:39,680 Speaker 1: whatever they're gonna cut, they're gonna get it out, and 639 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,680 Speaker 1: then they're gonna burn the rest of it. With the Masonics. Well, 640 00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 1: they'd go in there and they measure the timber and 641 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,320 Speaker 1: the size it up, and then they'd take out selective 642 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,759 Speaker 1: groups and they drag them out, and then they'd leave 643 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:52,800 Speaker 1: the rest going and growing harvest. So looks like a 644 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 1: return later to get some more timber. You see what 645 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,560 Speaker 1: I'm like? Where where the clan that was more like 646 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 1: a pit bulldog that's just aggravated, as to the Masonics 647 00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,919 Speaker 1: would be more like a German shepherd that had been 648 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 1: raised halfway decent in a good command of How did 649 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:17,720 Speaker 1: they interact with the organized crime in in this whole region? 650 00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: How did they were organized crime? The old old hold 651 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 1: You know if you call them organized, but if you're 652 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:30,040 Speaker 1: dealing with your dealing with some klansmen and who are Masons, 653 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 1: and then you're starting to get into, uh the organized 654 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 1: crime with Carlos Marcello, you know, the Libertos and people 655 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,880 Speaker 1: like that. They're Italians obviously, well yeah, did he call 656 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:47,360 Speaker 1: them wamps? Uh? You know? But but you know, Frank 657 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:51,319 Speaker 1: was in so many meetings up there, so you know, uh, 658 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:56,760 Speaker 1: Lomberto so you know, uh, Marcella's came up from meetings, 659 00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 1: but elso did um Clyde Tolson Carlos Marcella was the 660 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,360 Speaker 1: powerful mafia boss from New Orleans, and Clyde Toulson was 661 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,879 Speaker 1: the number two men at the FBI, who we will 662 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,960 Speaker 1: talk about later. We can't know if they were ever 663 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,759 Speaker 1: present at the same time, but as a charming thought 664 00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,359 Speaker 1: to imagine them sitting together at a so called prayer 665 00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,719 Speaker 1: meeting at the Baptist church where nasty illegal things are 666 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:23,920 Speaker 1: being planned. So Memphis guys, when they were just by themselves, 667 00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:27,839 Speaker 1: didn't like Italians and didn't like Catholics, but they were 668 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:29,960 Speaker 1: fine doing business with them if there was something in 669 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:35,440 Speaker 1: it for everyone. When we think about organized crime, we 670 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,280 Speaker 1: might think about such things as the luf Hansa heist 671 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,719 Speaker 1: at j f K and other big ticket scores. But 672 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,560 Speaker 1: in the South in the fifties and sixties, times were 673 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,320 Speaker 1: tough and piles of money weren't just laying around to 674 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:51,680 Speaker 1: be stolen. So organized crime existed by creating small streams 675 00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:55,480 Speaker 1: of income, but many of them a small gambling operation 676 00:41:55,520 --> 00:42:00,120 Speaker 1: would pass money up, same with prostitution or drugs. I 677 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,919 Speaker 1: went to mckillo Lake with Chess Butler, and we got 678 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,600 Speaker 1: to the boat that we kept done and it was 679 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,840 Speaker 1: filled with with marijuana that came up the Mississippi River 680 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,160 Speaker 1: from New Orleans. And I know that came in from 681 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,399 Speaker 1: mars Sellis because that was a direct deal that came 682 00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,759 Speaker 1: through Diddy. But Chess handled that for Daddy. Diddy didn't 683 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,759 Speaker 1: get around that boat, and Chess Butler handled other things 684 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,440 Speaker 1: for Russell Sr. And I have seen Chess do some 685 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,000 Speaker 1: crazy stuff, you know what I mean. I say him 686 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:30,600 Speaker 1: stab a guy. I don't know whether the guy died 687 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,080 Speaker 1: or not. We call Daddy, seen him over it. Calls 688 00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:35,160 Speaker 1: a man owed him some money over doing something and 689 00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,200 Speaker 1: the guy didn't do it and kept the money. I 690 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,120 Speaker 1: see him to take I aspected to a man out 691 00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,400 Speaker 1: there at rebellion was one night called Daddy, sent him 692 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,680 Speaker 1: outside with it and give him nice pick to do it. 693 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,360 Speaker 1: So with that charming image, we're going to move forward 694 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:53,000 Speaker 1: in time. Ronnie Lee is thirteen or fourteen, but on 695 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,680 Speaker 1: occasion he still carries coffee to some of the meetings, 696 00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:57,839 Speaker 1: and he just sits in on others and no one 697 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,400 Speaker 1: cares because he's always been there. But in nineteen sixty 698 00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:05,000 Speaker 1: five and sixty six, Ronnie Lee notices a change in 699 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,960 Speaker 1: the talk about killing King. It starts to become specific. 700 00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,120 Speaker 1: I mean they just started doing some planning, you know, 701 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,320 Speaker 1: they just started putting it together. The main thing was 702 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,920 Speaker 1: I remember Daddy was talking to Sam Chambers and Henry 703 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:21,080 Speaker 1: Lobe of the House. Now this took place in garage. 704 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,160 Speaker 1: Last Caren coffee out to him and I ended up 705 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:28,120 Speaker 1: going up and Graham, give me the perculator and I 706 00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:30,799 Speaker 1: can an actual house coffee. I remember that Dona donta 707 00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,160 Speaker 1: dot dot dont dont dont find you know, when that 708 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:35,319 Speaker 1: was on TV, and she said, here take us out there. 709 00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:38,680 Speaker 1: They were talking about how they were going to disrupt 710 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:45,719 Speaker 1: the city. The plan was disrupt the city because they 711 00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:50,600 Speaker 1: was gonna get King to the city, because Tolson said 712 00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,160 Speaker 1: that they wanted it handled in Memphis for Daddie and 713 00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,759 Speaker 1: M could handle it. Where it's specifically Daddy and M 714 00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:01,040 Speaker 1: could handle it. The actual crisis that Kingdom Memphis, the 715 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:04,840 Speaker 1: sanitation strike would come after Russell Atkins had died and 716 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,719 Speaker 1: Tulson had been set back by a stroke. But the 717 00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,360 Speaker 1: plan was the same, get King to come to the 718 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:14,000 Speaker 1: city and find a way to have him killed, and 719 00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:17,680 Speaker 1: then you had a crisis where the one or two 720 00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:23,200 Speaker 1: sanitation workers were killed. It was two in the truck itself, 721 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,080 Speaker 1: they squashed him in the truck. And how did that happen? 722 00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:28,439 Speaker 1: Do you know how that happened? Somebody pulled a hammer 723 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,200 Speaker 1: on the pulled the labor on the truck and mash 724 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:32,560 Speaker 1: them up in there. And they were up in there 725 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:34,160 Speaker 1: and trying to get out of the rain. That's what 726 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:38,080 Speaker 1: they was doing. And somebody, who was it Jim Ryan, No, 727 00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,279 Speaker 1: I thought it was Holly. I think it was Holly. 728 00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:44,520 Speaker 1: I thought it was pulled the hammer and killed them deliberately. 729 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:46,719 Speaker 1: He knew they was in there. When he did he 730 00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,560 Speaker 1: do and why did he do it? He didn't tell me, Pepper, 731 00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:52,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. You asked me a six or four 732 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:56,000 Speaker 1: dollar question. You know, was a black was a part 733 00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:59,120 Speaker 1: of the guys calls in the trouble? What I'm saying, Yeah, 734 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,560 Speaker 1: think they were trying to do to create more tension 735 00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,520 Speaker 1: in order to bring Martin King in. You know, I 736 00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,239 Speaker 1: believe so we've all talked about that, you know, we 737 00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,480 Speaker 1: we think that was the ticket that absolutely brought him 738 00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:15,839 Speaker 1: in and caused his death. Because that's when Frank said, 739 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:17,759 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, you know this, you know, we 740 00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:20,200 Speaker 1: gotta get on with this, you know, we just we 741 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:26,000 Speaker 1: gotta get on with it, Frank Colman. Yes, or At 742 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:29,200 Speaker 1: this point Ronnie Lee Atkins was not only hearing things 743 00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,719 Speaker 1: about disrupting the city to bring King to Memphis, he 744 00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:37,239 Speaker 1: was also doing things, by his own admission, rather nasty things. 745 00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:43,880 Speaker 1: All right, now we're into nineteen the guest sanitation workers 746 00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:49,920 Speaker 1: strike hits. Yes, who's taken over the hustle junior in 747 00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:54,759 Speaker 1: Hollman So Russell Jr. Frank Colman are running as the 748 00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,760 Speaker 1: assassination effort. Yes, what was done, the best of your knowledge, 749 00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:02,840 Speaker 1: was done to provoke the sanitation workers strike and the 750 00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:06,200 Speaker 1: anger to the level that it rose where it became 751 00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:11,480 Speaker 1: a very serious crippling strike in Memphis. Low, explain what 752 00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:15,799 Speaker 1: what you believe Lobe did. I know what Lope did 753 00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,120 Speaker 1: enter His reaction to it was, you know, go burn 754 00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:22,399 Speaker 1: this down and go burn that down, and and that's 755 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,440 Speaker 1: what we did. So you mean let that the mayor 756 00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:29,439 Speaker 1: set you about the business of of creating the word 757 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:35,440 Speaker 1: was ours creating of committee arses And this was sanctioned 758 00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,160 Speaker 1: by the mayor. No on, he just told us to 759 00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:43,439 Speaker 1: go do it. Ronnie Lee Atkins was only sixteen when Dr. 760 00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,759 Speaker 1: King was shot. He witnessed the murder. He played a 761 00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,800 Speaker 1: role in it. He knew others who were involved, and 762 00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,000 Speaker 1: we will hear him talk about these things in a 763 00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:56,000 Speaker 1: future episode. But we will end this segment with Ronnie 764 00:46:56,080 --> 00:47:01,040 Speaker 1: Lee's answer to a question from Bill Pepper. Now, in retrospect, 765 00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:05,719 Speaker 1: looking back, how do you see the role of your 766 00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:09,760 Speaker 1: father in all of this. I think daddy was just daddy. 767 00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:13,759 Speaker 1: I think he was real low key. I think he 768 00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,800 Speaker 1: had a job and a couple of businesses, and I 769 00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:21,040 Speaker 1: think this was something that came down on him and 770 00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,600 Speaker 1: from on high and small boys asked him to take 771 00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:26,799 Speaker 1: care of something, and he was obligated to take care 772 00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,440 Speaker 1: of it. That's what I believe. I don't think my 773 00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:35,279 Speaker 1: daddy took a damn from the government to do this work. 774 00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,120 Speaker 1: I'm talking about. You know, here's five thousand millars. Go 775 00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:41,600 Speaker 1: kill us, guy, or take care of this, or go 776 00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:44,600 Speaker 1: move this from here to that. I don't think that 777 00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:50,040 Speaker 1: ever happened. It was more of a bartering. We're living 778 00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:53,879 Speaker 1: in the South. We've got a problem down here. I've 779 00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,520 Speaker 1: got men that wants to work, y'all trying to give 780 00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,919 Speaker 1: all jobs to the colors, you know, and and I've 781 00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,960 Speaker 1: some white bulls over here and needs some jobs. I've 782 00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,520 Speaker 1: heard daddy sleay niggering. I've heard him say coon, and 783 00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:09,880 Speaker 1: I've heard him say porche monkey, I've heard him say spook, 784 00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:12,960 Speaker 1: and you know, I've heard my daddy slay and you 785 00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:16,120 Speaker 1: know her pretty terrific stuff. But you know what, I've 786 00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:19,399 Speaker 1: said the same thing. It's all I knew at the time. 787 00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:23,000 Speaker 1: And then you know, in in two thousand, I got 788 00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:27,600 Speaker 1: educated a little bit so and I started changing my life, 789 00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:30,319 Speaker 1: and that's what help bring us here today. I mean, 790 00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:41,080 Speaker 1: it's about me turning around next time on the MLK TIS. 791 00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:46,440 Speaker 1: After several hours of questioning and cross examining, Ray told 792 00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:48,920 Speaker 1: him that there was no such person as Rael, and 793 00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:51,920 Speaker 1: he knew there was no such person as Rael. He 794 00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:55,320 Speaker 1: admitted that and told me that he had to invent 795 00:48:55,600 --> 00:49:02,960 Speaker 1: invent Rayol, because that's Hugh wanting. We met with the 796 00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:07,160 Speaker 1: Glenda Ray Bow and Rowing Ray. She first said, I mean, 797 00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,399 Speaker 1: they they're almost their ugly statement was we know the Ray, 798 00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:14,880 Speaker 1: but we don't know it's Ray or you're loving. This 799 00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:19,200 Speaker 1: story was so extraordinary that when I first heard him, 800 00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,440 Speaker 1: I had to say that I was profoundly scape um. 801 00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,399 Speaker 1: There was any pulps of the story that I could 802 00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:29,880 Speaker 1: get corroborational that a white people don't thank Gray someday 803 00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:33,920 Speaker 1: being sacrificed, all white people are gonna thank Ray someday 804 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:38,719 Speaker 1: for being for being the sacrifice for us. Jacko kind 805 00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:42,040 Speaker 1: of bluffed and whipped out his BBC credentials and told 806 00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:44,680 Speaker 1: we're making a movie, and they gave him the information 807 00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:53,400 Speaker 1: so we had the name. Thanks for listening to The 808 00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:56,439 Speaker 1: MLK Tapes, a production of I Heart Radio intended for TV. 809 00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:59,959 Speaker 1: This podcast is not specifically endorsed by the King Family 810 00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:02,680 Speaker 1: or the King of State. The email K Tapes is 811 00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:05,840 Speaker 1: written and hosted by Bill Claiper. Matt Frederick and Alex 812 00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:08,759 Speaker 1: Williams are executive producers on behalf of I Heart Radio 813 00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:12,800 Speaker 1: with producers Trevor Young and ben Keebrick. Donald Albright and 814 00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:15,879 Speaker 1: Payne Lindsay are executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV 815 00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:20,480 Speaker 1: with producers Jamie Albright and Meredith Stepman. Original music by 816 00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:23,680 Speaker 1: Makeup and Vanity Said. Cover art by Mr soul to 817 00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:28,480 Speaker 1: six with photography by Artemus Jenkins. Special thanks to Owen 818 00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,879 Speaker 1: Rosenbaum and Grace Royer at u t A, The Nord Group, 819 00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:37,200 Speaker 1: back Median Marketing, Envisioned Business Management and Station sixteen. If 820 00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:39,760 Speaker 1: you have questions, you can visit our website, the email 821 00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:43,480 Speaker 1: k tapes dot com. We posted photos and videos related 822 00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:46,000 Speaker 1: to the podcast on our social media accounts. You can 823 00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:48,960 Speaker 1: check them out at the email k Tapes. From our 824 00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:51,960 Speaker 1: podcasts from I Heart Radio and tender Foot TV, please 825 00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,920 Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 826 00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:56,280 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows,