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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Long Island serial killer Rex Hureman finally going to hell

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Speaker 2: and it's been a long time coming.

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Speaker 3: Is he dead?

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Speaker 2: Not yet, But the Gilgo beat serial killer is headed

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Speaker 2: to quote Little Siberia quote prison, one of New York

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Speaker 2: State's oldest prisons, and it's very bleak and isolated in

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Speaker 2: the frigid and Rondack mountains near the Canadian border. It's

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Speaker 2: known as Little Siberia Boo hoo, the infamous Clinton c

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Speaker 2: I and Danimore and New York. It opened back in

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Speaker 2: eighteen forty five, and it has housed some of our

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Speaker 2: countries most evil, most diabolical killers. In other words, he'll

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Speaker 2: fit writing in why do I say that sightings of

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Speaker 2: the victim's phone calls are from the victims? Train rides

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Speaker 2: by the victims, victims that left and never came back,

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Speaker 2: keeping a victim alive.

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Speaker 3: For days on and so he could play with him.

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Speaker 2: There are going to be more victims uncovered of the

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Speaker 2: Long Island serial killer Rex Hureman.

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Speaker 4: The calm, serene, almost grandfatherly image that Rex Human portrayed

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Speaker 4: since his arrest was a lie and quite frankly an

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Speaker 4: insult to both law enforcement, but more importantly the families

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Speaker 4: that had to endure that during every court appearance over

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Speaker 4: the last two and a half years. Today he was

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Speaker 4: exposed for exactly what he is. A sadistic, soulless murder monster.

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Speaker 5: This case closes and another one opens. You know, there

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Speaker 5: are still you know, bodies on that beach. There are

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Speaker 5: still bodies in Suffolk County. There's no rest for the weary.

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Speaker 5: We are going to continue to work with our partners

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Speaker 5: and to try to obtain closure for as many families

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Speaker 5: as we can.

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Speaker 2: That the police Commissioner and the Suffolk County District Attorney

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Speaker 2: speaking unmasked finally in court in lieu of a long trial,

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Speaker 2: a guilty plea. But just as we saw in the

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Speaker 2: Idaho case, the Idaho for four Beautiful University Idaho students

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Speaker 2: murdered generally speaking in their sleep by one person, Brian Coburger.

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Speaker 2: Once again, like in Coburger, we will never really know

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Speaker 2: the facts because there.

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Speaker 3: Is no trial now.

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Speaker 2: Unlike Idaho, where the death penalty does exist, in rex

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Speaker 2: Hureman's jurisdiction, you can kill as many people as you

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Speaker 2: want and there is no death penalty.

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Speaker 3: What does this mean for his wife's reality show?

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Speaker 2: That's certainly something to ponder straight out to Crime Stories

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Speaker 2: investigative reporter Dave Matt. Dave Matt a Long Island serial killer,

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Speaker 2: The Long Island serial killer Rex Hueman finally sneered in court.

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Speaker 6: What happened once this all hit court with the announcement

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Speaker 6: that he was changing his plea? A lot of people

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Speaker 6: were looking at Asa ellerup as you just mentioned, and

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Speaker 6: her reality show. It was a three part series that

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Speaker 6: included interviews with the couple's daughter, Victoria. And it looks

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Speaker 6: like now the cameras are going to continue to roll

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Speaker 6: and add additional episodes to the show called The Gilgo

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Speaker 6: Beach Killer House of Secrets. So it looks like that

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Speaker 6: show will continue.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I'm a little more interested.

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Speaker 2: Tonight, Dave Mack in the guilty Please, a sudden change

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Speaker 2: of plea throws the courtroom in an uproar. Rex Heureman,

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Speaker 2: the admitted Long Island serial killer, pleads guilty. In addition

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Speaker 2: to Dave Matt, Crime Story's investigative reporter joining us also tonight,

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Speaker 2: Josh Zeeman, investigative journalist, documentary film director. He's been on

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Speaker 2: the case from the very beginning, and he is the

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Speaker 2: director of the Killing Season. It's a docuseries that helped

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Speaker 2: shed new light on the Gilgo Beach murders. Josh, thank

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Speaker 2: you for being with us. Describe what happened in court.

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Speaker 7: Well, Nancy.

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Speaker 8: It was a tense moment for sure, everybody waiting to

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Speaker 8: see if Rex would actually plead, and he did eight

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Speaker 8: separate times to these women. The question is, while he

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Speaker 8: was admitting these crimes, he never once turned back to

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Speaker 8: look at the families. He was smirking, And the question

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Speaker 8: is why was he smirking. Was he smirking because he

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Speaker 8: was forced to admit what he'd done, or because he

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Speaker 8: knew there were other victims out there that he was

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Speaker 8: getting away with.

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Speaker 2: You know, Josh, that is certainly a scary thought, scaring

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Speaker 2: even me who have actually prosecuted serial killers. Before smirking,

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Speaker 2: you know, I thought he was smirking at the victims'

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Speaker 2: families or at the justice system itself. But you again

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Speaker 2: have shed a whole new light on this. Is he

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Speaker 2: smirking because he knows there are other murder victims, other

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Speaker 2: defenseless women that he stripped, tortured and murdered, keeping them

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Speaker 2: alive in his dungeon basement for days and days on

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Speaker 2: end when his wife would be out of town.

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Speaker 3: We think days, and you believe there is.

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Speaker 2: A chance that he's smirking because he knows there are

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Speaker 2: other victims out there that haven't been found.

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Speaker 7: Absolutely, for sure, it's the tragic.

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Speaker 3: I'm curious, why do you say.

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Speaker 8: That, because we know the remains that were deposit on

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Speaker 8: Ocean Parkway. There's other folks. There's Asian Doe, Carmen Vargas,

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Speaker 8: There's numerous folks out there who and have you heard.

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Speaker 7: The district attorney say it himself?

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Speaker 8: You know there are other bodies on that beach, and

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Speaker 8: I was there at the press conference. He says, sometimes

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Speaker 8: it doesn't matter what I think, it matters what I

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Speaker 8: can prove. And so his next goal is to try

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Speaker 8: and prove it, to try and find these other victims,

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Speaker 8: identify some of them, and again bring Rex to justice

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Speaker 8: for these victims.

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Speaker 7: Tragic.

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Speaker 2: Mike Gougle joining US former Nessau County lieutenant, founding member

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Speaker 2: of the NYPD K nine unit. He's led multiple investigations

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Speaker 2: into serial killers, including the Gilgo Beach killer on Long Island,

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Speaker 2: also secret service to Presidents.

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Speaker 3: Mike, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: That has got to put a shiver down your spine

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Speaker 2: thinking that there are other victims. I mean, the guy

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Speaker 2: who's just in in the last hours pleading guilty to

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Speaker 2: multiple murders.

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Speaker 3: And these women weren't just bam, you're dead.

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Speaker 2: They were kidnapped, they were stripped, they were bound, they

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Speaker 2: were tortured for days on end while his wife was

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Speaker 2: away in his underground basement dungeon, and then ultimately murdered.

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Speaker 2: They went through hell, and I wonder, I wonder, Mike,

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Speaker 2: were they thinking of their children they would never see again.

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Speaker 2: It's excruciating for me. I hate to even imagine what

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Speaker 2: they went through. And now the specter brought up by

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Speaker 2: Josh Zeeman, and he's not wrong of other women out

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Speaker 2: there somewhere under the sand.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, Nancy, no doubt about it.

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Speaker 9: Unfortunately, though, reck Youreman is not the only serial killer.

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Speaker 7: This is a very unique area I'm intimately familiar with.

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Speaker 9: I patrolled the area for almost seven years with police dogs.

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Speaker 9: I trained police dogs by Tate. Daytime, it's a beautiful

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Speaker 9: recreational area. At night, it's a haunting, haunting, dark, desolate area,

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Speaker 9: and it's proximity to JFK Airport Rex. Youwer men literally

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Speaker 9: live fifteen minute drive from here from the locations where

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Speaker 9: the bodies were, so it's a haunting place. There's no

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Speaker 9: doubt there's other bodies out there. The bodies have been

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Speaker 9: being dispersed out there since the eighties during the mafia

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Speaker 9: gang wars, So it's just a question of actually locating.

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Speaker 9: And of course, frankly, this is a very desolate area.

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Speaker 9: It's finding bodies is like finding a needle in a haystack.

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Speaker 3: Okay, this is something I don't understand.

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Speaker 2: You are a founding member of NYPD, and I speak

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Speaker 2: very highly of the NYPD. Like every LA law enforcement agency,

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Speaker 2: he's got its problems and it's bad apples, But you

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Speaker 2: are the pinnacle NYPD. That's who all the other pds

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Speaker 2: look up to.

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Speaker 7: Right.

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Speaker 2: It's very hard for me to believe that a canine

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Speaker 2: or a team of canines cannot find all the dead bodies.

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Speaker 2: Cadaver dogs, that's what I'm talking about.

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Speaker 7: One hundred percent. This is what crack this case.

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Speaker 9: A Suffolk County Police Department cadabit dog found the first victim.

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Speaker 9: Without that, there would be no DNA evidence. Without that, Obviously,

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Speaker 9: there was great work by all the DNA invest all

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Speaker 9: of those things, but without the bodies, you have a

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Speaker 9: very difficult case to prove. So dogs are considered in

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Speaker 9: court as scientific instruments to overcome warrantless searches. So there's

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Speaker 9: nothing like a dog to find odorless microscopic skin cells

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Speaker 9: that are dispersed. But again, this is a big area

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Speaker 9: on NANC. It's different terrain, there's sand, there's a lot

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Speaker 9: of vegetation, So again it's not a question of if

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Speaker 9: other bodies will be found in. I think the DA

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Speaker 9: spoke to this is just a matter of it's nothing

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Speaker 9: new to us New Yorkers that this has been. You

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Speaker 9: go from a high congested, highly trafficked, illuminated areas, you

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Speaker 9: drive ten minutes fifteen minutes from Kennedy Airport or Rex

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Speaker 9: Huberman's house, and it's creepy.

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Speaker 7: It's creepy.

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Speaker 9: I used to park my police car, turn the lights out,

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Speaker 9: and you could see five miles in either direction of

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Speaker 9: any cars coming or going. So guess what if the

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Speaker 9: police can do that, the bad guys can do the

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Speaker 9: exact same thing. There's no curves and there's a lot

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Speaker 9: of places to sneak and hide, So yeah, It's a creepy,

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Speaker 9: haunting place, and it's been that way for many men found.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Well, they say birds of a feather flocked together. The

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Speaker 2: former Manhattan architect kept a family man facade, but behind

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Speaker 2: that facade an evil killer Alurtt. Now we know of

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Speaker 2: at least eight to nine dead victims, but I believe

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Speaker 2: there are many, many more. He pled guilty to the

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Speaker 2: murders of eight women, and behind bars at Little Siberia

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Speaker 2: he will join the real killer Joel Rifkin and the

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Speaker 2: New York Zodiac killer Aribertosida. There are sixty feet high,

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Speaker 2: seven feet thick cement walls, according to reports, and it

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Speaker 2: is the largest maximum security lock up in the state.

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Speaker 2: Many of its very old cells are six x eight.

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Speaker 2: He will enjoy a still framed bed, a commode, a sink,

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Speaker 2: and a riding surface. Don't worry, he'll find a way

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Speaker 2: to break the rules. He'll end up with a private

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Speaker 2: iPad and somehow make money off a documentary, like his wife,

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Speaker 2: Asa Ellerp, who's made reportedly a million dollars plus on

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Speaker 2: her documentary Excuse Me Documentary for Peacock.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 2: She insists she wants her privacy After starring in a

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Speaker 2: documentary series, she claims she's moving to Iceland. Okay, bye,

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Speaker 2: these are the facts. It's very clear from what the

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Speaker 2: Suffolk County District Attorney Right Tierney said that he believes

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Speaker 2: there are other bodies on this beach. Why can't the

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Speaker 2: cadaver dogs find them?

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Speaker 9: They can, they have the capability of doing. First of all,

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Speaker 9: there's not a lot of cadaver dogs because there's not

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Speaker 9: a great need for them, so there's not a lot.

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Speaker 7: Of them, but they certainly could.

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Speaker 9: And there's volunteer organizations that train Cadavid dogs all over

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Speaker 9: the country. So yeah, it's just right. And they are

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Speaker 9: continuing searching. There was police activity out there the other night.

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Speaker 9: I don't know specifically for what reason.

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Speaker 7: So yeah, the.

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Speaker 9: Search is on. It's never going to end. And as

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Speaker 9: I said, it's nothing new. You can, as I said,

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Speaker 9: Rex lived fifteen to twenty minutes, you drive over a

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Speaker 9: bridge and you go from Long Island to a desolate

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Speaker 9: You don't have to drive a body upstate New York.

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Speaker 9: You don't have to drive two or three hours like

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Speaker 9: in Goodfellows to dump the body upstate New York when

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Speaker 9: you can literally drive ten minutes from Queens Brooklyn, and

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Speaker 9: you're in this. It's like an alternate universe out there.

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Speaker 9: No lights, no stores, very little police activity. Police don't

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Speaker 9: patrol there because there's nothing out there in the winter.

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Speaker 9: By day again it's a beautiful recreational there. By night

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Speaker 9: there's nothing out there, and it's.

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Speaker 7: Continues that way today.

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Speaker 9: I was just down there the other night at one

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Speaker 9: o'clock in the morning, and it's eerie.

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Speaker 7: There's nothing. There's no rescue workers.

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Speaker 9: I mean, if you call nine one one, you know

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Speaker 9: there's a fifteen or twenty minute response time minimally because

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Speaker 9: they got to go over bridges, three miles of bridges

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Speaker 9: to get to this barren beach area control room.

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Speaker 2: I want to see the victims' faces, and I want

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Speaker 2: to see them close up, not a distant shot, all

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Speaker 2: of them in a group.

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Speaker 3: I want to.

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Speaker 2: See their faces, one by one.

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Speaker 3: Look at them. They begged for their lives. They begged

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Speaker 3: to go back to their children.

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Speaker 2: They promised they wouldn't tell, they promised they wouldn't call police.

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Speaker 3: Instead, they were.

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Speaker 2: Stripped, bound, tortured, raped, murdered, and their bodies buried along

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Speaker 2: a lonely stretch of beach.

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Speaker 3: And Rex Hueman stands in court smirking.

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Speaker 2: Why why because they died and he lives. Because he's

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Speaker 2: now going to be treated like the teacher's pet by

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Speaker 2: the FBI profilers.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 2: There're going to be many, many interviews by the FBI

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Speaker 2: profiling him this piece of crap, and I guarantee you

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Speaker 2: one day he'll take part in his own documentary and

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Speaker 2: there will be money.

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Speaker 3: Made off of it. It's happening. Put money on it.

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Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan joining me, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,

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Speaker 2: author of bestseller Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. He

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Speaker 2: is the star of a hit podcast, Body Bags with

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Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan. But for my purposes tonight. He is

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Speaker 2: a death investigator, a very experienced veteran death investigator, with

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Speaker 2: over ten thousand death scenes of all sorts under his belt,

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Speaker 2: over ten thousand. I first met him when I was

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Speaker 2: a prosecutor int Intercity, Atlanta and he was working for

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Speaker 2: the Medical Examiner's Office at that time. That's a long

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Speaker 2: time ago, Joe Scott, and you haven't let up. You

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Speaker 2: like me, like Gould, like Zeeman, have walked the beach.

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Speaker 2: Do you concur with Gould's comments, explain.

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Speaker 10: Absolutely, and let me tell you why. You know, obviously

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Speaker 10: you can hear my voice. I'm from the south, and

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Speaker 10: you know, we think about the rural areas down here.

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Speaker 10: You get up into this region and you leave what

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Speaker 10: they refer to as the city. When you leave the

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Speaker 10: city and you're heading out, you know, as mister Gould

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Speaker 10: had mentioned just a moment ago, you get there, this

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Speaker 10: is rural. This is what they consider going to the country.

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Speaker 10: And it's not it's not an unfair description because it

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Speaker 10: does go dark really, really quickly. And here's the thing.

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Speaker 10: My good buddy, Sergeant Joe Jack Loan, he took me

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Speaker 10: to the location where the Gilgo bodies were actually found.

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Speaker 10: And one of the things that I came away from

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Speaker 10: from that visit to that location was the fact that

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Speaker 10: one side of the roadway you've got this marshy area.

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Speaker 10: It is prohibitive for anybody to go into there. You've

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Speaker 10: got briars and brambles and everything else on that side.

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Speaker 10: On the other side, you can hear the waves crashing

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Speaker 10: and you can't see your hand in front of your

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Speaker 10: face out there at night. It would not surprise me

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Speaker 10: at all if there were more. He's saying at the beach,

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Speaker 10: Tierney is I'm thinking probably along the sound side over there,

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Speaker 10: where you can quickly deposit the bodies in that location

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Speaker 10: and nobody's going to be any the wiser out there.

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Speaker 10: I think that probably when he did this, he was

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Speaker 10: hoping for something, maybe like title changes that are going

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Speaker 10: to sweep the bodies out. It's an easy dump to

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Speaker 10: do this. He can pull them out of this avalanche,

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Speaker 10: which by the way, they had recovered down in South Carolina,

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Speaker 10: and they would just be gone. They would vanish and

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Speaker 10: right he was to a certain degree, but that yet

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Speaker 10: there they remained. And to mister Goule's comment, those dogs

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Speaker 10: are heroes, you know, because they went out there. They

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Speaker 10: took those dogs out there and they actually found these remains.

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Speaker 10: Is it possible they could go out there and find more. Yeah,

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Speaker 10: I think that there can. Because this is an extensive area, Nancy.

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Speaker 10: It would take so much manpower to get out there

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Speaker 10: and cover every square inch of this area or every

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Speaker 10: square mile. They haven't even scratched the surface yet. And

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Speaker 10: you have to be purpose.

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Speaker 2: Hey, look, Scott, look, look, look, look, look, this is

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Speaker 2: video obtained by ABC seven. Look at him. I just

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Speaker 2: want the viewers to know what they're seeing. Joe Scott,

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Speaker 2: there he is, and I know exactly where he is.

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Speaker 2: Nobody needs to tell me.

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Speaker 3: He's leaving his office.

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Speaker 2: See he's got his messenger bag over his shoulder. He's

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Speaker 2: leaving his office, which was a stone's throw to Pen Station,

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Speaker 2: and there he would catch the pen I've been there

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Speaker 2: many many times. To imagine this demon walking amongst all

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Speaker 2: the ladies catching trains at Penn Station, going straight out

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Speaker 2: to Long Island to commit murders.

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Speaker 3: There he goes. He truly is a demon walking among us.

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Speaker 2: That is what the DA said. Sorry to interrupt, Jo Scott,

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Speaker 2: keep going on. I just wanted the viewers to know

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Speaker 2: what they were seeing.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, and when I think about who else he could

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Speaker 10: have victimized, how many more are there? I think there's

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Speaker 10: a high probability that there are these bodies. But Nancy,

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Speaker 10: if we could just return to the victims specifically, just

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Speaker 10: for a second, this allocution, let me just put it

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Speaker 10: to you, this way is lacking, okay, because you know

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Speaker 10: what we got out of him, and yeah, I mean

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Speaker 10: it confirmed some things we got him saying. Strangulation, strangulation, strangulation, strangulation,

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Speaker 10: but there's no more detail there. I'm very disappointed that

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Speaker 10: his feet were not held to the fire. You know,

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Speaker 10: you had mentioned his torture chamber, which I think that

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Speaker 10: this location was. Josh has talked about how these people,

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Speaker 10: these poor victims, were kept alive down there, and yet

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Speaker 10: there's no more detail about what he did. I don't

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Speaker 10: know that people fully appreciate the depth and breadth of

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Speaker 10: how evil he is. He is demonic, in my opinion,

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Speaker 10: with what he did to these poor souls, and we

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Speaker 10: will never know that information. All I have to do

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Speaker 10: I look back at the template of the way Kansas

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Speaker 10: handled BTK, and we don't have that here. It's left

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Speaker 10: wanting to say the very least. And I think the

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Speaker 10: families need to understand that. I think the courts need

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Speaker 10: to understand that. But yet here he is. He's going

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Speaker 10: to get three hots and a cot and oh, by

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Speaker 10: the way, yeah, the boys from the FBI are going

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Speaker 10: to come down. They're going to sit with him, and

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Speaker 10: they're going to interview him extensively, right, and he is

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Speaker 10: going to hold a level of celebrity. And that is

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Speaker 10: probably one of the most vomit inducing things I can

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Speaker 10: think of relative to this monster Nancy.

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Speaker 5: This defendant walked among us, play acting as a normal

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Speaker 5: suburban dad, when in reality, all along he was obsessively

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Speaker 5: targeting innocent women for death. He identified these women, lured

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Speaker 5: them into Nassau County, murdered them, and left their bodies

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Speaker 5: in Suffolk County. He thought that by killing them he

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Speaker 5: could silence them forever and get away with murder. But

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Speaker 5: he was wrong because it was these victims, these women,

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Speaker 5: who refused to stay.

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Speaker 2: Styling in the last days, the Long Island serial killer

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Speaker 2: in court, snared, admitting, yes, he is the Long Island

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Speaker 2: serial killer, but he's not the only one on the

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Speaker 2: hot seat tonight.

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Speaker 3: The question everyone keeps asking is how did.

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Speaker 9: You not know?

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Speaker 4: The Gilgo Forum was one of America's longest serial killer

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Speaker 4: cold cases.

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Speaker 3: After thirteen years, this bombshell drops.

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Speaker 5: Rex Huerman, architect, father, husband.

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Speaker 7: He basically was the person that lived next door.

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Speaker 8: He was a monster, living a double life.

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Speaker 2: One person is saying this, one person saying that, but

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Speaker 2: my memory says this.

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Speaker 7: There's so much evidence against you. I don't even believe you,

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Speaker 7: and you're my best friend. Convince me give me something.

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Speaker 7: Did you do it?

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Speaker 10: Rex Huerman insists through his lawyer that he's innocent.

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Speaker 4: Is it possible that no family ever suspected that something

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Speaker 4: was off about this guy?

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Speaker 5: The most mysterious figure is Rex's wife.

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Speaker 2: The investigator says to me, have you heard about the

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Speaker 2: murders on Gilgo Beach?

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Speaker 3: I've heard of them.

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Speaker 10: The idea that the wife didn't know anything was hard

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Speaker 10: to believe.

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Speaker 3: Does everybody really leave everything they hear?

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Speaker 7: How you doing?

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Speaker 2: I'm doing great now that I've got you on the phone.

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Speaker 2: How ironic that Asa Elera, the wife of the Long

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Speaker 2: Island serial killer, says, does everybody believe everything they hear?

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Speaker 3: Woman?

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Speaker 2: What were you deaf? Dub and blind? You couldn't see,

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Speaker 2: you couldn't hear, You couldn't speak of the evil happening

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Speaker 2: in your basement often while you're at home?

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Speaker 3: Bs on it, bs on you, woman.

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Speaker 2: That's from the Gilgo Beach Killer House of Secrets, their

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Speaker 2: official trailer, the family of Rex Huerman getting a purported

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Speaker 2: one million dollars to participate in that special documentary Blood Money,

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Speaker 2: Blood Money? How do you think that makes the families

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Speaker 2: of these dead women feel? These women kidnapped, tortured, raped, murdered,

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Speaker 2: their bodies sometimes dismembered, and disposed of. How do they

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Speaker 2: feel about his wife getting a cool million?

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Speaker 3: It schevs me out totally.

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Speaker 2: I feel filthy and nauseous all at the same time.

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Speaker 3: Just watching the trailer, Dave.

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Speaker 6: Matt What, Nancy, It's one of those shocking things that

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Speaker 6: just pushes you over the edge that Asa Elera is

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Speaker 6: the ex wife of Rex Schuerman being featured and getting

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Speaker 6: paid for this multi part documentary. Now, Nancy, they're adding

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Speaker 6: adding new episodes to this this show. The docu series

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Speaker 6: is called you know the Gilbil Beat Kill Her House

404
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Speaker 6: of Secrets, But now that the secrets are out, Asa

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Speaker 6: Ellrup is going to be adding episodes. But Nancy claiming

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Speaker 6: all along the family knew nothing. In court, Asa Ellerup

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Speaker 6: is sitting behind Rex and she's seemingly shocked. She's sitting

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Speaker 6: on the edge of the seat. She's gripping the seat

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Speaker 6: with her hands.

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Speaker 7: You can see the.

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Speaker 6: Knuckles, and it's like she's acting like she just can't

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Speaker 6: believe what she's hearing. And there's a suggestion that she

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Speaker 6: didn't believe any of it until he said he did it.

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Speaker 6: But Nancy, I'm with you, like many how can you

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Speaker 6: live in this house? Which, by the way, when you

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Speaker 6: look at the home that Rex Huerman and his family

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Speaker 6: lived in his home from his childhood, it looks like

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Speaker 6: the monster's home compared to the other houses on the street.

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Speaker 6: It looks like evil exists in this house. She's living

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Speaker 6: there with this man. Well, you know a decade.

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Speaker 3: You know what, Dave Matt.

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Speaker 2: If it looks like a duck and walks like a

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Speaker 2: duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: I mentioned Sida, the Zodiac killer. He shot and stabbed

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Speaker 2: as victims. He was caught just before he could kill

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Speaker 2: twelve people representing all the zodiac signs. Oh dear gravy.

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Speaker 2: Now a third killer, a third serial killer, Altimio Sanchez

429
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Speaker 2: housed of there. He had seventy five years to life.

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Speaker 2: At the same prison, he was known as the bike

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Speaker 2: Path rapist. He murdered three women in western New York.

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Speaker 2: Also noted killers include the MIYPD officer of Michael Valva,

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Speaker 2: who was convicted in the freezing death of his autistic

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Speaker 2: little boy just eight years old. Now, there was one

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Speaker 2: jailbreak by David Sweat and Michard Matt that was in

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Speaker 2: twenty fifteen. How did they get out because two prison employees,

437
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 2: including Joyce Mitchell, a sewing instructor who was sleeping with

438
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:11,360
Speaker 2: the killers, helped them smuggle tools into the facility. They

439
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 2: cut their way through steel cell walls and then got

440
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 2: through a maze of wiring hallways, cut through a steam pipe,

441
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 2: and came through a manhole outside the walls. After three

442
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 2: weeks they were found all of his new friends and

443
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 2: their exploits aside, these are the facts surrounding serial killer

444
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 2: Rex Heureman joining us in addition to Dave Mack, Josh Zeeman,

445
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 2: investigative journalist and director of the Killing season, shining a

446
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 2: new light on the Gilgo Beach murders.

447
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 3: Tell me about Asa.

448
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 2: Ellrope in Court and what if anything you know about

449
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 2: her documentary series? Okay, that's total BS documentary series, my

450
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 2: rear end.

451
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,400
Speaker 3: What can you tell.

452
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:02,360
Speaker 2: Us about her show where she's getting a purported million

453
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,199
Speaker 2: dollars and now additional episodes? I mean, come on, Josh,

454
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,199
Speaker 2: don't you know she wanted this thing to go to trial,

455
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 2: So in between every break where the juror has got

456
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 2: a diet coke or a cup of coffee, she could

457
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 2: go out and cry and carry on with her histrionics

458
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 2: for the cameras to aff for her reality show. Maybe

459
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 2: make another million dollars, Josh Zemon.

460
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 8: Look, I heard that she wasn't getting paid until the

461
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 8: final episode aired. You know it is a shock about it.

462
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 8: I agree with you completely blood money. I will tell

463
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 8: you this. I was in the courtroom and right when

464
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 8: Rex admitted to it, I looked back and I saw

465
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 8: his daughter, and his daughter was she was crushed. I

466
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 8: feel bad for the daughter. I don't feel bad for

467
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 8: the wife. I feel bad for the daughter, who I

468
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 8: think is crushed that this man that she loved is

469
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 8: now a terrifying serial killer.

470
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 3: That's one thing I will.

471
00:28:55,960 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 2: Tell you, Okay, I get that. What I'm asking about

472
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 2: is asa ellerup and her reality show. I don't care

473
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 2: that she may not get all the money till the

474
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 2: last episode. Is from what I can tell, there may

475
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 2: not ever be a last episode in our lifetime because

476
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 2: they're still digging up bodies.

477
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 3: It's great, it's great, thinky you know what.

478
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 8: Look, I'll tell you something. You know what the lawyer said.

479
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 8: The lawyer said when asked about it, her lawyer said,

480
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 8: this is what America wants, and that's the real question,

481
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 8: do we want this or not?

482
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 2: My little question is why don't they have the death penalty?

483
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 2: But that's a whole other can of worms. Yeah, what America.

484
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 3: Wants is justice, But is that justice? Him smirking in court?

485
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 2: And you and I were talking earlier with Joe Scott

486
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 2: Morgan about him being treated like the little darling, the

487
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 2: teacher's pet, the bear behind the cage getting fed Filet Mignon.

488
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 2: Nobody wants to get that close to him, but they

489
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 2: will feed him with a long handlespoon. That said, he's

490
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 2: going to be study and questioned. The FBI Behavioral Analysis

491
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 2: Unit is going to have a field day with him.

492
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 2: He may get to travel to them. I mean, I

493
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 2: guarantee you, Josh, that there will be a day like

494
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 2: Brian Coburger, that he will take part in some sort

495
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,959
Speaker 2: of documentary and he won't make any money, but there

496
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 2: will be a way for money to be funneled to

497
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 2: him through his wife, through his family. I don't know how,

498
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 2: but he will find a way. He lived quite the

499
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 2: dual life, did he not.

500
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 8: Look this was a guy who created these two separate

501
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 8: personas that of a father, a commuter working in New

502
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 8: York City, and that of a monster. And I think

503
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 8: that was really important to him to create these dual personalities,

504
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 8: one allowing him to work on the other who was

505
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 8: a hero to his family, theoretically so that he could

506
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 8: kill at night.

507
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 3: It's terrified Dave matt who is suing.

508
00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 6: Eleurope Benjamin Torre. He is the thirty two year old

509
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 6: son of victim Valerie Mack. He is naming Rex Hureman, obviously,

510
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 6: but in this million dollar lawsuit he names Asa Elera

511
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 6: and daughter Victoria Huerman as defendants. Torres alleges that he

512
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 6: was deprived of his mother's care and protection, claims Mack

513
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 6: was tortured before her death, and the suit seeks damages

514
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 6: and targets the prophets allegedly earned bielerap in Victoria Huerman

515
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 6: from the Peacock documentary that we've been talking about. I'm

516
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 6: saying that human's life being shown like this is a

517
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 6: callous disregard to the victims' families.

518
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 2: You know, I'm just imagining what the victims' families have

519
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 2: gone through. They went for years thinking maybe their mothers

520
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 2: just left them, abandoned them. How do you like to

521
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 2: grow up thinking that mom just left? I don't know

522
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 2: where she is. She didn't love me enough to stay

523
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 2: with me or even stay in touch with me. I

524
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 2: grew up without a mother. And then they find out,

525
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 2: for all those years that they blamed their mom, that

526
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:15,239
Speaker 2: their mom had been tortured and raped and murdered and

527
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 2: their remains buried on a desolate beach. Just growing up

528
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 2: in itself has all sorts of trauma and issues pile

529
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 2: that on top. I don't know how these people even

530
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 2: get out of bed in the morning. To Joseph Scott

531
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 2: Morgan explain what was done to these victims? And you

532
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 2: know what, when we show their faces, Joe Scott, it's

533
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 2: easy to go, oh, there's a long one serial killer victims.

534
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 2: I would have to make your rs and I didn't

535
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 2: like it any more than they did. Make them confront

536
00:32:54,160 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 2: what really happened to these ladies, what they endured before

537
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 2: their deaths.

538
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 3: What happened to them, Joe Scott.

539
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,719
Speaker 10: The worst possible torture that you can imagine. Can we

540
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 10: reflect back just for a second to think about this list.

541
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 10: Do you remember the list, Nancy, This kind of assignment

542
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 10: of task that he had created. Nancy, There's there's one

543
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 10: part in this list that he had created where it says,

544
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 10: by the bye, don't don't forget to remove the hands

545
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 10: and the head and to wash the bodies. Just let's

546
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 10: just meditate on that, just for a second, of how

547
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 10: dark this whole thing is. And if it happened once,

548
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 10: it happened multiple times. And that's that's in death. Lord

549
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 10: only knows what had happened in life, down in that

550
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 10: dark dark space as he is torturing these poor victims.

551
00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 10: And here's the here's the real shame. Just like Ted Bunny,

552
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 10: we will hear his name over and over and over

553
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 10: and over again. Guess what. Guess what. There are very

554
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 10: few people that can go down the list of Ted

555
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:16,760
Speaker 10: Bundy's victims and name them. I submit to you that

556
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 10: the names of these victims will be forgotten. And I

557
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 10: hate to say that it's very callous, but his name

558
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 10: will trump everything else. He'll be mentioned over and over

559
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 10: and over again, and people need to remember this. This

560
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 10: is why, when I think about the allocution, why he

561
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,800
Speaker 10: should be compelled to talk about what These are individuals.

562
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 10: They had lives, they had families, and the torture that

563
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 10: they were subjected to is stuff that you can't even

564
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 10: imagine in your wildest dreams. It's stuff that you think

565
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 10: about war crimes. People that commit war crimes didn't do

566
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 10: stuff like this. You know, one thing that I reflectively

567
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,280
Speaker 10: think back to in this list, there's a one point

568
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 10: where he actually uses the term hard point, and that

569
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 10: really with me. And the hard point was a location

570
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 10: commonly where you secure something like, for instance, an eye

571
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,919
Speaker 10: an eye hook in the ceiling where you can tie

572
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,760
Speaker 10: somebody up, you can hang them almost like a piece

573
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 10: of beef, or if you're feel dressing a deer and

574
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 10: talking about the context of that, you know, what's your

575
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 10: purpose for doing that? Rex? You know, why would you

576
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 10: need a hard point? I know he's an architect. He

577
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 10: probably uses that term from the descriptor of building something out,

578
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 10: but that's not what he used that for, Nancy. He

579
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,919
Speaker 10: used that to secure these individuals so he could work

580
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,800
Speaker 10: out these sick fantasies. And you know, they're paying the price.

581
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 10: They're paying the price to satiate these evil desires that

582
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 10: he has, and they are not going to be memorialized.

583
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,399
Speaker 10: I am truly hoping. I am so glad you brought

584
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 10: up this gentleman who is suing, because maybe there will

585
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 10: be relief in civil court where they will have to

586
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 10: talk about this stuff. They will have to talk about

587
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,879
Speaker 10: what happened in her domicile that she was living in

588
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 10: with her kids. This was all going on under her

589
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 10: nose in that basement she inhabited the space. Let's hear it,

590
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 10: you know, let the hide come with a hair, and

591
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 10: let's hear what they have to say about this and

592
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 10: what went on in that house. You're not gonna get

593
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 10: in civil court, I mean in criminal court, because he's

594
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 10: not gonna be forced touched by at this point. But

595
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 10: in the civil court, maybe these families will get some

596
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 10: relief and they will be able to see what he

597
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 10: had done, and you can parade all of the experts

598
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 10: across the stand. In civil court, you can get transcripts,

599
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 10: you can do depositions, and they're going to talk about it,

600
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 10: and I hope, I hope they go forward with it.

601
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 10: I hope every family member out there that suffered at

602
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 10: his hands will file suit and we're gonna find out

603
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:45,800
Speaker 10: what actually happened down there in that basement.

604
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 2: And recall Joe Scott that asa Ellerp's hair was actually

605
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 2: found on Valerie Max's body, which opens up a whole

606
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 2: nother cannon worms. I'd like to go back to what

607
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 2: the control room was showing while you were talking, Joe Scott,

608
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,879
Speaker 2: I guess in your world, as do I. I make

609
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,399
Speaker 2: lists all the time, so I can't forget what all

610
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 2: I have to do. Don't hunt too long in one

611
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 2: area because you'll be seen. Don't charge for your gas,

612
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 2: check for video cameras in the pickup area. The next

613
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 2: time you kidnap your victim, hit the victim harder, make

614
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 2: it easier to quote take them down a hit to

615
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 2: the face or the neck next time, which means he

616
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 2: didn't hit the victim in the right place for him

617
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 2: the first time, and she fought back. You need more

618
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,720
Speaker 2: sleep before the murders. You need to control the noise

619
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 2: and more quote playtime. In other words, torture hang drop

620
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:49,800
Speaker 2: claws from the ceiling with pushpins, not tape, because the

621
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:54,320
Speaker 2: drop claws become loose during the rapes and the torture.

622
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 2: Use heavy rope for the neck. Light rope broke under

623
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 2: this tree of being tightened. Now that sun and all

624
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 2: the victims' families have to think about how tightly ropes

625
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 2: were cinched around their mother's neck. Props, toys, wood items, wood,

626
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:22,320
Speaker 2: items for what, destroy books, computer files, anything that touched

627
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 2: t one, I guess the victim. Dispose of plastic bags,

628
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 2: remove marks from the torture. What does that mean when

629
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 2: he cut out portions of their skin, remove head and hands.

630
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,399
Speaker 10: Yeah, you're talking about excision there, Nancy. Excision is say,

631
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 10: for instance, you have a sharp instrument and you have

632
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 10: an insult to the skin. For instance, you have a mark,

633
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 10: an abrasion, a contusion, whatever it is. He's talking about

634
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 10: excizing that area, actually cutting.

635
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:58,399
Speaker 2: Out the cutting and out, cutting out the tattoo from

636
00:38:58,440 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 2: the skin.

637
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:00,760
Speaker 3: That's what joe'st is saying.

638
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 2: And he's right now here are his problems to the

639
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 2: panel DNA, that's a problem.

640
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 3: Tire marks for him, that's a problem.

641
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 2: Bloodstain's fingerprints, plastic bag he had cap litter to get

642
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 2: rid of the smell. This guy, look at this all

643
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 2: the supplies booti's acid lie a police scanner, cutting tools

644
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 2: here and nets burn can drain cleaner tarps, electric clips,

645
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 2: large electric clips for what Joe Scott to put on

646
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 2: the victims' bodies and electrocute them as torture.

647
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 3: Why would he need electric clips?

648
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 10: Yeah, to send voltage to their bodies. Because he's he

649
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 10: is experiencing this is he wants to see the pain,

650
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,319
Speaker 10: He wants to see the resistance. He wants to see

651
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:57,720
Speaker 10: their reaction to the terror that he's inflicting upon them. Okay,

652
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,879
Speaker 10: they know that something horrible is coming, that horror being

653
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 10: their end. But what's happening before they get to that death,

654
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 10: which probably at the end of the day, many of

655
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 10: them were probably begging for Nancy at that point. I

656
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 10: think the big question is we know these eight victims

657
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 10: that he has admitted to. I want to know how

658
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 10: many more women were brought down there and subjected to

659
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 10: the same torture in this environment. You know, Lord only knows,

660
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 10: you know. One of the things I think about is

661
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 10: the DNA recovery down there in that area. I really

662
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 10: wonder how many unknown bits of DNA may have been recovered,

663
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 10: What was the opportunity, how much had it degraded. There's

664
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 10: so many unanswered.

665
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 1: Quis crime stories with Nancy Grace.

666
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,720
Speaker 2: Finally gil Go beat serial killer Rex Hereman. Head Straight

667
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 2: to Hell aka Little Siberia, a prison the dates all

668
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 2: the way back to the eighteen forties and is in

669
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 2: the frigid Adirondacks on the American Canadian border enjoy. These

670
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 2: are the facts to Josh Zeeman, joining US, director of

671
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 2: The Killing Season, an entire docuseries that profiled and shed

672
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 2: light on the Long Island serial killings. I noticed on

673
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 2: his list he wanted more photo film his words, So

674
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 2: obviously he took pictures during the torture or after.

675
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 8: In fact, Nancy, there are believed to be one hundred

676
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 8: thousand pictures that the disc attorney has had to go

677
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 8: through that the FBI helped to even organize one hundred thousand.

678
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 8: What's amazing is this guy took all these precautions to

679
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 8: try not to get caught, yet still this was all

680
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,879
Speaker 8: sitting on his computer, this document, this planning document, it's

681
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 8: called the HK plan document Hunt and Kill Planning Document.

682
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,840
Speaker 8: He was sitting in this edge in the bites of

683
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,919
Speaker 8: his computer that he could not erase. So despite all

684
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 8: these things that he had done, it was still there.

685
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 8: And thank god they were able to get this. He

686
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,560
Speaker 8: was actually you talk about this house looking so ramshackle.

687
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:22,479
Speaker 8: He's a hoarder. He hoarded all these old items, old

688
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 8: pom pilots. There were palm pilots that they found that

689
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 8: basically gave the dates of what he was doing and

690
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:32,320
Speaker 8: going that actually mentioned his wife being away at times

691
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 8: and he would go and find a victim. So he

692
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 8: hoarded everything, including all these pieces of evidence. He also had.

693
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 8: The most shocking thing is he had newspaper articles, thirty

694
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 8: year old newspaper articles in his bedroom, in his office,

695
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 8: in his basement of all his crimes. So for some

696
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 8: guy who's such an architect and such a great planner,

697
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 8: he still kept all these mementos that basically nailed them

698
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 8: to a wall for these killings.

699
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 2: Mike Guild Special Guest former nessa county lieutenant founding member

700
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 2: of the NYPD K nine unit, led multiple investigations into

701
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:15,280
Speaker 2: serial killers, including this case. Mike, after all your work,

702
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 2: all your time, literally blood, sweat and tears, how does

703
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 2: it make you feel that this guy he might be

704
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 2: sentenced consecutively won after the next half the next but

705
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:28,280
Speaker 2: bottom line, he gets.

706
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 3: One life sentence for everything he did.

707
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 9: Yeah, Nancy, it's sickening. This is a true animal monster,

708
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 9: whatever you want to call it. But what's most disturbing.

709
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:40,840
Speaker 9: He could be at your next dinner party. He was

710
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 9: an architect, he's very well respected in the community. You

711
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 9: know what I think about As I said, I patrolled

712
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 9: this Areosion Parkway from nineteen ninety two to nineteen ninety nine,

713
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 9: when Frankly, these bodies were disposed of. But here's the

714
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 9: sad reality. I could have pulled him over. He has

715
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 9: a license registration, and he could I had a body

716
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 9: in his trunk. He's a duck hunter, and he's a

717
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 9: member of the community. I would have probably let him go.

718
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:08,760
Speaker 9: There would be no reason for me to suspect because

719
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 9: sociopaths are very manipulative. As I said, he could be

720
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 9: He's just somebody's next door neighbor.

721
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 7: He could be at. So that's what's the most troubling

722
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 7: to me, is you never know the evil at lurks

723
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 7: in anybody's mind.

724
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 2: Frankly, Mike Gould a special guest tonight. He worked the

725
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 2: Long Island serial killer case. Mike, what you said is chilling, eerie,

726
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 2: and I know it to be true. And when I

727
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 2: think of what Josh Zeeman just said about over one

728
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 2: hundred thousand photos of these dead women during torture, during rapes,

729
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 2: and their families have to live with that the rest

730
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 2: of their lives. I mean, I feel, I don't know,

731
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:01,720
Speaker 2: robbed by this altiplay and I don't know why.

732
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 11: Yes, so this is a heinous crime. We can't you

733
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:10,839
Speaker 11: can't fathom insanity. How can a normal functioning person, As

734
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 11: I said, this could be anyone. Nobody's immune to this.

735
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 9: This could be a priest, that could be any member

736
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:18,760
Speaker 9: of your community, a family member.

737
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 7: They're devious and they live double lives.

738
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 9: If you look at all his notes, those are the

739
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 9: notes of an architecture.

740
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 2: Right.

741
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 9: Architects are very meticulous and they have to learn from

742
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 9: their last architectural drawings.

743
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:33,240
Speaker 7: So when you look at that, this is a checklist

744
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 7: police scanners. He had probably.

745
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 9: Thought about how what he was going to say if

746
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 9: somebody like myself pulled him over in the middle of

747
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 9: the night on Ocean Park, where I'm sure he had.

748
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 7: A very well reasoned excuse.

749
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 9: So this is this is a sadistic maniac, and we

750
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 9: can scratch our head from now to eternity trying to

751
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 9: figure out what how a sociopath thinks, how they get

752
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 9: some side of type of enjoyment from mutilating people. It's

753
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 9: not on our radar screen. It's certainly not a my

754
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 9: radar screen. So yeah, I fortunately for me, I've been

755
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:06,800
Speaker 9: doing this stuff so long, I have a way of

756
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 9: just isolating those thoughts and the emotions. I'm kind of

757
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 9: emotionally detached from a lot of this, So a lot

758
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 9: of it I frankly don't even listen to as I

759
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 9: just kind of avoid it, stick with the facts of

760
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 9: the case.

761
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 7: But yeah, he's a monster, period.

762
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:29,760
Speaker 2: Karen Stark, what advice, what words of consolation or hope

763
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,240
Speaker 2: can you give the victims' families?

764
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 12: Well, the best you could do in a case like this, Nancy,

765
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 12: is to actually talk to them, advise them to get help,

766
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:44,800
Speaker 12: to keep talking it out, because it really makes a difference.

767
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 12: And it's really hard because they're aware of the torture.

768
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 12: They just like you, right, they can't fathom it, and

769
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,240
Speaker 12: they can put themselves in the place of the victim,

770
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 12: which is terrible to imagine what they went through. And

771
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 12: he does this because he gets a charge out of it.

772
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 12: That smirk is showing you how much he enjoys this.

773
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 12: And there is no doubt in my mind that he

774
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:15,240
Speaker 12: pleaded guilty because he didn't want to go over the details.

775
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:19,359
Speaker 12: He has very specific details that he wants to keep

776
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 12: to himself and maybe share with the FBI so he

777
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 12: can get the fame that he's been looking for. But

778
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 12: this is a monster, and so what do you say

779
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 12: to the family is except be with each other, keep

780
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 12: talking about it. You must go on with your lives

781
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 12: for the sake of the.

782
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 6: Victims, confess Long Island serial killer Rex Chuermann finally broke

783
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 6: his silence as the family members of his victims gave

784
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 6: victim impact statements at the long awaited sentencing of the

785
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 6: man who terrorized the Giggle Beacheria for decades. In April,

786
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 6: he pleaded guilty to killing seven women Jessica Taylor, Melissa

787
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 6: bartholemy Megan Waterman, Maureen Brainder Barnes, Amberlyn Costello, Valerie Mack

788
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,800
Speaker 6: and Sandra Castillo. He also admitted to killing an eighth woman,

789
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 6: Karen Brigata, though he was not formally charged in her death.

790
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 6: He admitted strangling all of the victims to death during

791
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 6: a seventeen year span beginning in nineteen ninety three. Before

792
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 6: the judge sentenced him to three life terms without the

793
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,239
Speaker 6: possibility of parole, and an additional twenty five years to

794
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 6: life for each of the murders of the seven women,

795
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 6: he asked Hureorman if he wished to address the court

796
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 6: Hureman said, there are no words I could say I

797
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 6: was responsible for what was said in this courtroom today.

798
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:29,319
Speaker 6: The words I would say have no meaning, and I'm

799
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 6: going to leave it there. After questioning if Hureman was

800
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 6: even a man at all, the judge said, you're a coward.

801
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 6: Get him out of here, which brought cheers from victims' families,

802
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,240
Speaker 6: who chanted ogre as the killer was led away.

803
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 3: Don't worry.

804
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 2: He's working on his appeal to his plea somehow, claiming

805
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 2: he deserves a new trial or even release. How's he

806
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 2: going to do it, don't know, but he'll try. We

807
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 2: wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime Story, signing off Goodbye,

808
00:48:58,040 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 2: Frien