Speaker 1: Well, this week, I'm talking to myself. I've been fortunate
Speaker 1: enough to all over the West this season, New Mexico, Oregon,
Speaker 1: Idaho with a bunch of good friends. We had a
Speaker 1: bunch of highs, we had a bunch of lows. But
Speaker 1: what I'm gonna try to do is uh put a
Speaker 1: button on on the elk ra So this week on
Speaker 1: cutting the Distance, I'm going to do kind of that
Speaker 1: postmortem of my archery elk season. I've been able to
Speaker 1: talk to a lot of people that spent a lot
Speaker 1: of time out in the woods, and I've kind of
Speaker 1: put my conclusion together, um, you know, on how the
Speaker 1: elk grew out went and um, we're also gonna highlight
Speaker 1: some of the greatest lessons I learned this year. So
Speaker 1: as always, we're gonna start off with some listener questions.
Speaker 1: If you have questions of your own, please submit them
Speaker 1: to C. T. D at Phelps game Calls dot com. Uh,
Speaker 1: myself or my guests will do the best job we
Speaker 1: can answering him. So the first question today, and we're
Speaker 1: starting to get a lot of these uh rifle questions.
Speaker 1: You know, late season el cunning questions are rolling in
Speaker 1: and a lot of people ask, what do you mean
Speaker 1: by early season late season? So if I had to
Speaker 1: draw a line between what's considered an early season elk hunt, UM,
Speaker 1: I would say like post rut, um, you know the
Speaker 1: ruts over, UM, we're now going into a different zone.
Speaker 1: And so with that early season, you know a lot
Speaker 1: of times you're gonna have your archery equipment UM. A
Speaker 1: lot of times. You know, there's there's extremely early season
Speaker 1: prior to the rut, which some some states allow you
Speaker 1: to start hunting, you know, in August, and then that
Speaker 1: archery season. Most of your archer season's kind of centralized
Speaker 1: around the rut, so many states, UM, you'll start to
Speaker 1: get that pre rut, which you know the end of August,
Speaker 1: you know, first few days of September, peak rut being
Speaker 1: kind of mid September, and then that post rut going
Speaker 1: late September into sometimes middle of October even later UM,
Speaker 1: a lot of hunting estates well then closer hunting seasons UM.
Speaker 1: And then switch over to a different weapon, whether it's
Speaker 1: muzzloader or rifle. UM. And then we we consider that
Speaker 1: our late seasons. And then there's in my opinion, there's
Speaker 1: two different um stages of the late season. There is
Speaker 1: late season where feet is still available up high. Um,
Speaker 1: you know one either weather hasn't pushed them down or
Speaker 1: to their their food hasn't burnt up, or they haven't
Speaker 1: had to move down. And then there's the extremely late
Speaker 1: season where these elk will now have to start to
Speaker 1: migrate because of weather, they have no food left up
Speaker 1: high and they tend to push down, which starts at migration. So, um,
Speaker 1: what we're talking about here today when we talk about
Speaker 1: late season, in my opinion, is switching over these rifle
Speaker 1: seasons and you're gonna be hunting, you know, late October
Speaker 1: through November. You know, maybe not a lot of migration involved.
Speaker 1: Quite yet, some people have always asked, you know, why
Speaker 1: do they put the seasons where they do? And so
Speaker 1: your rifle season typically are put where those herd bowls
Speaker 1: and bowls aren't his acceptible um to being you know,
Speaker 1: forced out into the open by the cows. You know,
Speaker 1: a lot of time that bull wants to stay with
Speaker 1: the cows. Those cows and calves are typically looking for
Speaker 1: feed and so a lot of times those herd bulls
Speaker 1: during the rut, well then you know, quote unquote get
Speaker 1: drug around by the herd or be with the herd,
Speaker 1: and they're a lot more susceptible um to being harvested,
Speaker 1: especially if somebody had a rifle. Well, we set these
Speaker 1: rifle seasons are a lot of these states have set
Speaker 1: their rifle seasons so that you know, the chance of
Speaker 1: escatement is a lot higher. These bulls tend to go
Speaker 1: off on their own. They tend to go off and
Speaker 1: feed alone. You know, the larger the bowl typically the
Speaker 1: more likely they are to be alone or with a
Speaker 1: bowl of their caliber or their age or maturity UM.
Speaker 1: A lot of times, once see smaller bulls start to
Speaker 1: break off, you'll still be able to find them in
Speaker 1: their you know, smaller bachelor herds UM. But they're typically
Speaker 1: trying to recoup from the rut. So that's why we
Speaker 1: put those rifle seasons where they are. These these bulls
Speaker 1: are going to go to the deepest, darkest um you know,
Speaker 1: more secluded places where they feel um safe, and and
Speaker 1: that's what we're going to find him. So question number one,
Speaker 1: what is the best strategy for elk in the late season.
Speaker 1: And so once again we're gonna take these that we're
Speaker 1: we're going into a typical rifle season, UM, very much
Speaker 1: like my archery season, you know, my archery tactics. I
Speaker 1: love to get up high into glass. UM. Now I
Speaker 1: want to break my glassing down into the two different
Speaker 1: um you know types of glassing. You can get up
Speaker 1: and you can look at a large portion of the unit.
Speaker 1: And what I'm doing there is trying to figure out
Speaker 1: what elevation the alcraft. Maybe I I can you know,
Speaker 1: spot some of these bowls that are off feeding alone,
Speaker 1: but I'm really just trying to figure out where elk out,
Speaker 1: where do they want to be? UM. I'm not necessarily
Speaker 1: super concerned with finding cows. You know, a lot of
Speaker 1: times lay October early November, there will still be UM
Speaker 1: some immature bowls running, you know what the herd, But
Speaker 1: the majority of time those larger bowls, more mature bulls
Speaker 1: are going to be broken off. So I'm getting up
Speaker 1: high early in the morning, trying to glass as much
Speaker 1: as I can. UM. You know, if the weather is
Speaker 1: still nice, you may only get you know, half hour
Speaker 1: to an hour max. These bowls are gonna feed, they're
Speaker 1: gonna go back and bed down somewhere. UM. So we're
Speaker 1: trying to maximize the time let our glass do the walking. UM.
Speaker 1: I'm up high. I'm glassing you know, for that first
Speaker 1: hour hour and a half and then um, we're moving.
Speaker 1: And the second stage of glassing is there's a difference
Speaker 1: between once you've located some elk or you're starting to
Speaker 1: really dial in or look for specific animals. You need
Speaker 1: to get in, in my opinion, get into areas that
Speaker 1: can't be seen, um very easily. And so with that said,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get you know, two or three miles in.
Speaker 1: Maybe I've got to walk down uh finger ridge. Maybe
Speaker 1: i have to go, you know, get up on a
Speaker 1: cliff or or climb a steep section. UM. I'm using
Speaker 1: on X, I'm using a lot of our mapping software,
Speaker 1: you know, aerial photography. UM, trying to put together you know,
Speaker 1: where the terrain and where the vegetation and how it
Speaker 1: lays out, and then where I'm gonna be able to
Speaker 1: see and to select nooks and crannies. Um. You know
Speaker 1: a lot of times, like I said, these these bigger
Speaker 1: bulls want to go into areas where uh, you know,
Speaker 1: they they can they can feed out in the open,
Speaker 1: but not necessarily be seen or they don't get bothered
Speaker 1: near as much. I'm trying to to be able to
Speaker 1: look into those areas and I'm not looking. I will
Speaker 1: sacrifice a morning or a night or an entire day
Speaker 1: in order to to to find the animal, or find
Speaker 1: the target animal, or find the animal that I want
Speaker 1: to go kill. Um, we may sacrifice some morning and
Speaker 1: night and and just lay eyes into this country knowing
Speaker 1: that we may be two three miles away, using our
Speaker 1: spotting scopes, using our binoculars, doing as much glassing of
Speaker 1: as much country as we can. And then once we
Speaker 1: find that animal, we will then you know, draw up
Speaker 1: a plan um to go to go try to kill
Speaker 1: that animal. But a lot of people I feel they're
Speaker 1: not willing to give up a morning hunt or a
Speaker 1: night hunt. UM. You know, they're always they always want
Speaker 1: to have their gun on their shoulder, you know, UM
Speaker 1: with a chance to kill. And and I feel that
Speaker 1: a lot of times investing in um, you know, a
Speaker 1: glassing session or whatnot can be very very advantageous. So
Speaker 1: if the country allows, UM, if it's set up to
Speaker 1: do a lot of glassing, I'd like to do that. Now.
Speaker 1: I grew up, uh, you know, in in western Washington
Speaker 1: where we do get to glass some clear cuts, but
Speaker 1: a lot of times. UM. In these riffle seasons, some
Speaker 1: of these bowls have figured out that they can live
Speaker 1: in the timber and never come out in the opening.
Speaker 1: So or or there's a mix between you know, semi
Speaker 1: open and timbered country. UM, you know, timber lion country,
Speaker 1: whatever you may be in. UM. You know, if we're
Speaker 1: in timbered country or an area where I believe there's
Speaker 1: a lot if I can look into the timber, or
Speaker 1: I'm in the timber and can see that there's a
Speaker 1: lot of food, um, and that the elk won't have
Speaker 1: to leave that UM, there is a chance you may
Speaker 1: have to go still hunting it or UM you're gonna
Speaker 1: be glassing the fringe is very very early, very very late,
Speaker 1: and then you're gonna have to get into the timber.
Speaker 1: You know, if if there's a target animal in there.
Speaker 1: So you need to be able to adapt um to
Speaker 1: the country you're hunting, to the vegetation uh um. And
Speaker 1: then my ideal area is right at timber line. UM.
Speaker 1: You know, I want to be able to look above
Speaker 1: timber line if the elk are still up there. If not, UM,
Speaker 1: I want to be able to find um. You know,
Speaker 1: small feed areas, whether it's avalanche shoots, whether it's small meadows,
Speaker 1: whether it's small little side patches where those elk can
Speaker 1: feel a little bit more comfortable. Um, you know, bowls
Speaker 1: specifically when they're feeding by themselves, when they want to
Speaker 1: be secluded, but they want to get you know, access
Speaker 1: to that higher quality food. UM. I'm looking for for
Speaker 1: small little um areas in the timber um and stuff
Speaker 1: like that to concentrate my glassing. And then once you
Speaker 1: find those elk, you have to put together a plan
Speaker 1: on killing them, you know, and and sometimes it's a
Speaker 1: lot easier, uh said than done. Um. You know, some
Speaker 1: some country we hunt is very very big. Some of
Speaker 1: it's broken up, and you know a lot of times
Speaker 1: the more broken up countries actually easier because we can
Speaker 1: get on ridges, we can we can plan our approaches
Speaker 1: to get a whole lot closer to these elk, which
Speaker 1: actually sets up a lot better um as far as
Speaker 1: having a plan to go kill them. If you're in
Speaker 1: in big, big country where you know the canyons are
Speaker 1: you know a half mile mile across. You know, you
Speaker 1: can't shoot from side to side. Um, you can't get
Speaker 1: any closer. Um. You know a lot of times moving
Speaker 1: to their side. UM puts you at a big disadvantage
Speaker 1: because your visibility is way way low. Um, you've got
Speaker 1: wind that you're dealing with. You know, even though it's
Speaker 1: rifle hunting, we're still paying a lot of attention to
Speaker 1: the wind. UM. You know, as these late season will
Speaker 1: bring a lot more UM weather and weather systems that
Speaker 1: will then um do some crazy stuff with the wind.
Speaker 1: So as you're as you're making your plan, you know,
Speaker 1: ideally for me, my my my ideal plan is to
Speaker 1: pattern um these late season ELK A lot of times
Speaker 1: they will continue to do the same thing morning and evening.
Speaker 1: They've got their you know, preferred food source. They've got
Speaker 1: their food or a preferred betting area, and they're just
Speaker 1: gonna keep doing. You know, they're gonna go in the morning,
Speaker 1: they're gonna from feed to bed. At nighttime they're gonna
Speaker 1: come from bed to feed. UM. And so I'm gonna
Speaker 1: ideally get myself within shooting range whatever my comfortable shooting
Speaker 1: range is of where I expect those um, you know,
Speaker 1: that bowl to present itself. And like I said, a
Speaker 1: lot of times, it's it's easier you know, said than done.
Speaker 1: But you need to look at everything you know wind um,
Speaker 1: where you plan on them coming out, what's gonna give
Speaker 1: you the best view of the area. Um. All of
Speaker 1: that will come into you know, finding the elk, but
Speaker 1: then the plan to killing them, you need to put
Speaker 1: some thought into that. And uh, you know, if it's
Speaker 1: in the timbered area, you're gonna have to figure out,
Speaker 1: you know, how to get the wind right. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: use elk trails, use um. You know, be as quiet
Speaker 1: as possible, um, and try to make your your play
Speaker 1: on on how to kill those. The next question late
Speaker 1: season calling. Um. You know, a typical question I get is, hey,
Speaker 1: I've got a rifle tag um for such and such unit.
Speaker 1: It runs November one to the tenth. What calls do
Speaker 1: I need? And what calls am I gonna make while
Speaker 1: I'm out there? And as much as I would like
Speaker 1: to tell everybody like, oh yeah, I go buy a
Speaker 1: bugle tube, go buy some diaphragms, you know, by by
Speaker 1: one of everything. UM. In my opinion, from what I've seen, UM,
Speaker 1: we don't use calls near as much as we do
Speaker 1: during the rut. UM. And I'll give some of my
Speaker 1: reasoning for that one. You're drawing extra attention to yourself. Um,
Speaker 1: if if you're out there cow calling or getting let's
Speaker 1: say you have spotted or heard it, you know, a
Speaker 1: thousand yards away, you close the distance to a couple
Speaker 1: hundred yards. Um, we need to remember we've got typically
Speaker 1: you know, some sort of a long range weapon in
Speaker 1: our hand, you know, something that's capable of two to
Speaker 1: three yards shots very comfortably. If we're gonna go get
Speaker 1: within two hundred yards and try to communicate with those
Speaker 1: elk through calls. Whether it's a cow call, um, you know,
Speaker 1: I would say bigling is completely off the table. But
Speaker 1: if you were a bugle, all you're doing, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: is is letting those elk now know of your location,
Speaker 1: and then you're putting a whole bunch of extra eyeballs
Speaker 1: on yourself. Um, you could have got to that same
Speaker 1: pause edition silently, had zero eyes on you, and then
Speaker 1: been able to have a lot more time to make
Speaker 1: your decision and maybe find the bowl. You know, all
Speaker 1: of these things that happen when we finally get in close,
Speaker 1: like where am I going to set up to shoot?
Speaker 1: But by making a call, you've now alerted them to
Speaker 1: your location, and a lot of times that gets a
Speaker 1: lot of eyeballs on you. Um, let's say it's a
Speaker 1: late season you know timbered rifle or you know, late
Speaker 1: season archery, whatever it may be, you get in tight
Speaker 1: a lot of times that not only does it put
Speaker 1: eyeballs in your direction and now alerts them, you know elk,
Speaker 1: And in my opinion, no of other elk that are around,
Speaker 1: they don't. You know, there is a chance a new
Speaker 1: elk just showed up and it won't put them on alert.
Speaker 1: But a lot of times in my experience, making a
Speaker 1: call out of a blue, they kind of know like
Speaker 1: something's up, or if it's not a great call, um,
Speaker 1: you know, they all kind of perk up, They all
Speaker 1: kind of look around, they all lift their heads up
Speaker 1: from feeding. They're all looking in your direction. So number
Speaker 1: one eyes in your direction and it puts them a
Speaker 1: little bit on edge and on alert. Where I will
Speaker 1: use alls in late season, um number one, if I'm
Speaker 1: still hunting, as I mentioned a lot of times growing
Speaker 1: up in you know, the Pacific Coast rainforest, you know
Speaker 1: we're hunting. Um, still hunting. We're we're literally walking through
Speaker 1: timber as quiet as we can, trying to spot elk
Speaker 1: before they spot us. Um, you know if we have
Speaker 1: to wind right. A lot of times you could smell
Speaker 1: them beforehands and whatnot. But if we were happen to
Speaker 1: bump an elk, um, but they didn't necessarily smell us,
Speaker 1: they may be seen or maybe heard us. We can
Speaker 1: then use a cow call. A lot of times, I'll
Speaker 1: still hunt with a diaphragm in my mouth. I'll make
Speaker 1: a couple of cal calls just to settle them down.
Speaker 1: Maybe that will be enough to get them to settle
Speaker 1: down and I can, you know, get get to the
Speaker 1: next ridge and maybe make a shot from ridge to
Speaker 1: ridge or or whatever. UM. We have used some aggressive
Speaker 1: um tactics in late season when I've hunt them with
Speaker 1: some buddies. We've actually broke up herds, like specifically went
Speaker 1: in to bump them and then use some lost cow calling, UM,
Speaker 1: some long drawn out cal calls to call them back
Speaker 1: to the location. We've had a little bit of success
Speaker 1: with that. But for typical late season elk calling, where
Speaker 1: I love to use calls the most is in an
Speaker 1: area where I need to stop an elk for a shot. UM,
Speaker 1: if I'm shooting three, four or five yards across the canyon,
Speaker 1: whatever it may be, say it's brushy, and I've only
Speaker 1: got certain spots that are gonna work for a shot.
Speaker 1: I don't typically want to yell across the canyon, you
Speaker 1: know the man. I don't want to yell hey, I
Speaker 1: don't want to get you know, do any of these things.
Speaker 1: Allowed external cal caoll is a great way to stop
Speaker 1: that elk. And the thing I like about using that
Speaker 1: cal call is typically as long as he's not scared,
Speaker 1: he's just you know, feeding or moving like they normally would,
Speaker 1: you can typically get them to stop for longer than
Speaker 1: just a second or two. Um if you yell, if
Speaker 1: you make the you know, the fake man, a lot
Speaker 1: of times they'll stop, but then they'll get nervous, like
Speaker 1: they kind of figure out what that sound was, versus
Speaker 1: using a natural sound like allowed cow call. I typically
Speaker 1: like to you know, call on it as loud as
Speaker 1: I can one time get them to stop, and then
Speaker 1: they are going to have eyes on you. So I,
Speaker 1: you know, usually don't like to be moving by that time.
Speaker 1: Hopefully the shooters down ready UM tracking the elk. So
Speaker 1: we will use um cow calls, uh you know in
Speaker 1: that in that instance to get them to stop for
Speaker 1: a shot. UM I guess do what the elk are doing.
Speaker 1: If I showed up to an area on October, let's say,
Speaker 1: for a rifle hunt, and there are bulls beagle in
Speaker 1: their head off, and I feel that by bugling back
Speaker 1: and locating bulls is gonna give me an advantage. I'll
Speaker 1: always have my bugle tube around or in the track
Speaker 1: or a diaphragm available. Um, you know, quick story my
Speaker 1: wife's first bull back in two thousand seventeen October twenty nine,
Speaker 1: we hiked into an area. Um, she had a tag
Speaker 1: and we we started to hear bull bagle down blow
Speaker 1: us in October twenty nine and I could kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, listen by the type of bugle that it was.
Speaker 1: That bowl was still running, he still had cows and heat,
Speaker 1: whether they came in on a second or a third cycle.
Speaker 1: And we got to listen to that bowl bugle probably
Speaker 1: three times that evening as he pushed his herd of
Speaker 1: cows up past us, and she was able to make
Speaker 1: a show. So I didn't have my beagle tube in
Speaker 1: that instance, and I probably still wouldn't have called because
Speaker 1: I could hear um that they were ultimately going, you know,
Speaker 1: moving from down below us to up above us. Um,
Speaker 1: and we were just gonna let them go by anyways,
Speaker 1: we had the wind good in their face. But now instance,
Speaker 1: you know, if if we wouldn't have killed that bowl
Speaker 1: at night, I wouldn't have hesitated to go back in
Speaker 1: there the next day with the beagle tube, knowing I
Speaker 1: could probably get that bowl to respond. So, you know,
Speaker 1: do what they you know, do what the elk are
Speaker 1: telling you to do. Um. You don't want to be
Speaker 1: out there if the woods are completely silent, you around
Speaker 1: elk and you're the only one out there hammering vehicles. Um,
Speaker 1: you don't want to be the only cow in the
Speaker 1: woods just you know, screaming on estrus wines. So do
Speaker 1: what they're doing and you're gonna be safe. UM. Don't
Speaker 1: try to force the issue. Don't overcall, because in my opinion,
Speaker 1: sometimes you can do more harm than good by one
Speaker 1: alerting them and getting a whole lot of eyes looking
Speaker 1: in your direction. UM. The last user question, what time
Speaker 1: of the day should I be hunting in the late season?
Speaker 1: You know, so where we typically are tree hunt all day,
Speaker 1: but we always know that you know, morning and nights
Speaker 1: are going to be best with the most action because
Speaker 1: you get that you know, it's it's hotter um in
Speaker 1: the midday, the days are longer. So when it comes
Speaker 1: to rifle hunting, UM Number one, it's it's a little
Speaker 1: bit of a mindset change for me. Is I've got
Speaker 1: a gun in my hand, I'm now more lethal. You know,
Speaker 1: it just takes out one that one elk to show
Speaker 1: itself in the wrong spot or the right spot for me, Um,
Speaker 1: wrong spot for the elk, and and I can be
Speaker 1: successful in these late season hunts. We've now got cooler
Speaker 1: weather which will let those bulls and and cows, those
Speaker 1: elk will be on their feet a lot more. Um.
Speaker 1: Is they're using more calories to stay warm, um, and
Speaker 1: to survive. They're gonna be on their feet more. They're
Speaker 1: gonna need to put down more calories. On top of that.
Speaker 1: Bowls specifically, it puts a toll on them getting through
Speaker 1: the rut. You know, you kill a bowl late August,
Speaker 1: early September, you go to you look at them and
Speaker 1: they're just loaded up with layers of fat. You kill
Speaker 1: a bowl post route and that thing is war down
Speaker 1: to nothing, you know, nothing but meat and bones. Um.
Speaker 1: Those bowls are trying to to recoup very very quickly
Speaker 1: because they just went from the rut. They've got a
Speaker 1: very short feed window and then they're gonna have to
Speaker 1: survive the winter. Um, so those things will be on
Speaker 1: their feet a lot more so with the cooler weather.
Speaker 1: And then we also have shorter days, right. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: it's crazy to start with an archery season where it
Speaker 1: seems like you're getting up at four thirty and you're
Speaker 1: going to bed at nine. By time a rifle season
Speaker 1: comes around, you're getting up at you know, seven, six
Speaker 1: thirty and you're you know, it's dark by six or
Speaker 1: five thirty. It's it's pretty drastic. But that also you know,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, Um, with shorter days, I'm out there
Speaker 1: more so during late season if I were, if I
Speaker 1: have a tag in my hand, I'm hunting all day
Speaker 1: from morning until dark. And don't give up on those
Speaker 1: mid days. Yes, you may not see as many elk
Speaker 1: out in the wide open, but during that midday, concentrate
Speaker 1: on brushier um more of those fringy fringe areas. And
Speaker 1: when I say fringey, it's like you're not out in
Speaker 1: the wide open meadows. You're not way out away from
Speaker 1: the timber. You know above timber line. UM, but you're
Speaker 1: looking at where let's say timber meets the meadow or
Speaker 1: maybe a brushy avalanche draw or maybe just a brushy
Speaker 1: area in the area. A lot of times those you
Speaker 1: know bulls will feed in there um all day and
Speaker 1: feel like they're secluded and they're hidden from any danger.
Speaker 1: So UM, midday, switch your focus from wide open feed
Speaker 1: areas to kind of that secondary feed um where where
Speaker 1: they're a little more comfortable, and you can a lot
Speaker 1: of times create plays midday that you can go capitalize
Speaker 1: on that evening or before the day gets you know,
Speaker 1: um too dark to to be able to hunt. So
Speaker 1: my opinion, all day in the late season, especially if
Speaker 1: you have a gun in your hand, UM, you never
Speaker 1: know when you can find success. So that kind of
Speaker 1: wraps it up for for some of the Q and A.
Speaker 1: Once again, if you have your own questions, email us
Speaker 1: at ct D at phelps game calls dot Com or
Speaker 1: hit us up on social and we will make sure
Speaker 1: to do our best job put an answer to it. All. Right, now,
Speaker 1: we're gonna jump into the final field report for the
Speaker 1: el crep um. The engineering me really wants to break
Speaker 1: this down based on components um, and some of those things.
Speaker 1: When I look at the rut, I look at kind
Speaker 1: of where was the timing, um, how did the timing
Speaker 1: lineup compared to what I typically think of the rut.
Speaker 1: What was the intensity of the rut? Was it on fire?
Speaker 1: Did it seemed to be lacks of daysical? What was
Speaker 1: the weather that we experienced? And each of our stops
Speaker 1: UM herd behavior which also kind of ties back into intensity,
Speaker 1: like were there sub dominant bowls trying to challenge? Were
Speaker 1: they pestering their herds? UM. I'm gonna pull out the
Speaker 1: call ability uh component. You know, it's a it's a
Speaker 1: piece of us being archery hunters, Like how callable were
Speaker 1: the bulls and what did we see on that, you know,
Speaker 1: as far as trying to call these elkin and house
Speaker 1: accepted they were to calling UM. And one thing that's
Speaker 1: hard because we're never in the same spot, on the
Speaker 1: same herd, you know, at the same time. And so
Speaker 1: I do my best here. I'm gonna kind of preface
Speaker 1: this with I'm gonna do my best to kind of
Speaker 1: um over arch and overreach my my opinion here on
Speaker 1: years past and being in similar areas and um, you know,
Speaker 1: similar Elk. And the other thing is I've got a
Speaker 1: chance to talk with you know, thirty forty other guys.
Speaker 1: You know, I get back, We all, me and my
Speaker 1: buddies all get on the phone, get you know, some
Speaker 1: of our pro staff, some of the guys that use
Speaker 1: our calls, whatever it may be, and we just kind
Speaker 1: of bs about hunting. You know, what worked, what didn't work,
Speaker 1: What was your big takeaways? Um, you know, and so
Speaker 1: on and so forth. And so I'll try to do
Speaker 1: my best to kind of roll all of this um together.
Speaker 1: So time me of the rut, UM, I would say,
Speaker 1: I'll give my my overall opinion and I'll kind of
Speaker 1: break it down. So timing of the rut, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: seemed to be later than you know passed. And by past,
Speaker 1: I don't mean a year or two ago. But the
Speaker 1: typical rut timing seems to be late. And I don't
Speaker 1: just mean late by a couple of days. I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: you know, seven to ten days off um a typical
Speaker 1: RUT cycle. You know. I I got to hunt New
Speaker 1: Mexico with Ryan Callahan this year. Um we were a
Speaker 1: few days ahead of when UM Steve or Ella myself
Speaker 1: got to hunt the same unit last year, and so
Speaker 1: we've got a very very good location, same elk um
Speaker 1: just a few days off and the end of me
Speaker 1: and Cal's hunt kind of overlapped the beginning of me
Speaker 1: and Steve's hunt, and what we saw was very very
Speaker 1: different elk behaviors between the two different years. So one um,
Speaker 1: Steve and I started hunting on September five. Cal and
Speaker 1: I started hunting on the first, but we did get
Speaker 1: four days of overlap. The larger herd bulls this year
Speaker 1: were still by themselves on September four and September five,
Speaker 1: which seemed very strange to me. And when I say
Speaker 1: larger herd bulls, um, we were covering ten to twelve
Speaker 1: miles um a day, We were you know, locating a
Speaker 1: lot of elk, We were getting to lay eyes on
Speaker 1: on herds, and the bulls that were running the cows
Speaker 1: weren't quite in the same category as some of these
Speaker 1: bulls that were off still bachelored up. So number one
Speaker 1: leads me to believe a lot of times we see,
Speaker 1: you know, those smaller bulls running herds in the late August,
Speaker 1: but by time September rolls around, we can almost always
Speaker 1: guarantee that those larger bulls will then take over the
Speaker 1: herd and court the cows um, you know, for the
Speaker 1: rest of September or until even an even larger bulls
Speaker 1: shows up. So I was a little um concerned seeing
Speaker 1: that the two largest bulls we've seen on the entire
Speaker 1: trip were solo by themselves. We also made a move
Speaker 1: on the largest of of all of these bulls, got
Speaker 1: within a hundred twenty five yards, thinking he's by himself,
Speaker 1: we got down next to him when was really good.
Speaker 1: We cow called um hundred fifty yards away, and the
Speaker 1: bull never made a peep um a lot of times.
Speaker 1: You know, if he's ready, or even if he's not ready,
Speaker 1: by September five, he's going to be accepted. You know,
Speaker 1: he's going to be accepting cows make responses, make a movement.
Speaker 1: So we didn't know that bowls there. We made some
Speaker 1: caw calls and continued moving, and then ultimately, you know,
Speaker 1: you're a little concerned, like well, as a last ditch effort,
Speaker 1: we don't think anything's here, I'm gonna bugle before we
Speaker 1: walk out of the canyon. We just crawled into training
Speaker 1: to get this guy. I let a bugle out and
Speaker 1: and that bowl takes off, ripping you know, right out
Speaker 1: of the draw, right down below us. I could have
Speaker 1: thrown a rock and landed on its head. That bowl
Speaker 1: takes off, and so you have that scenario September. You
Speaker 1: fast forward to September five with me and Steve. We
Speaker 1: call in three or four different bowls on the first
Speaker 1: evening and you have what I would consider dominant bowls
Speaker 1: bigger than this bowl that me and Cal tried to
Speaker 1: call in. All of them bouncing around from group of
Speaker 1: cow groups of cows, trying to figure out where they
Speaker 1: fit in and the pecking order. And they were all
Speaker 1: battling it out. You know when I say battling it out,
Speaker 1: not literally battling it out, but they were all posturing.
Speaker 1: They were all moving, um, four groups of cows already. Um,
Speaker 1: So that was that was a pretty good sign in
Speaker 1: New Mexico that that the timing was late. Move on
Speaker 1: to Oregon, I would say timing was a little more typical. Um.
Speaker 1: We had uh, you know, a little at a biggling
Speaker 1: um but but timing was still a little late, Like
Speaker 1: it wasn't a ton of action. They would kind of
Speaker 1: shut off midday. We did have a couple of days
Speaker 1: where we could get them going midday. Um, but really
Speaker 1: just weren't cranking yet like that unit should have been.
Speaker 1: Fast forward to Idaho. We don't show up until um
Speaker 1: eighteenth or nineteen, and the Elk there just aren't going.
Speaker 1: We're in Elk, We see elk, we know we're in Elk,
Speaker 1: and those things wouldn't make a whole lot of sound
Speaker 1: until we got right on top of him. Now fast
Speaker 1: forward to the very end of that hunt. Um, things
Speaker 1: are finally starting to get going. Um. We have hunted
Speaker 1: this unit. Um, we've had people hunting this unit last
Speaker 1: couple of years. Dirks hunted into a couple of times,
Speaker 1: and you know, he always said it was very good early,
Speaker 1: you know, tenth or fifteen, and then it kind of
Speaker 1: actually seemed to have hit like an October loll um.
Speaker 1: And so for us, it's another indicator that this thing
Speaker 1: seemed to have been seven to ten days late, later
Speaker 1: than normal. Um. I'm not a not a weatherman, I'm
Speaker 1: not a climate you know specialist whatever whatever keeps track
Speaker 1: of you know, climate change, whether you believe in any
Speaker 1: of that or not. But one thing I do notice
Speaker 1: is spring always seems to be later. We've been having
Speaker 1: about the last five years. You know, winners later, springs later,
Speaker 1: summer seems to go longer. UM. We saw some calves
Speaker 1: with spots on him this year, which leads me to
Speaker 1: believe that even last year, we were seeing some of
Speaker 1: these cows get bread late late into November December. UM.
Speaker 1: But but to back up, I feel like, if I
Speaker 1: had to put an estimation on it, the rut was
Speaker 1: seven to ten days later than when I typically saw
Speaker 1: you know, back in in the early two thousand's when um,
Speaker 1: everything the peak rut really seemed to hit, you know,
Speaker 1: the thirteenth to the seventeenth of September. UM, I would
Speaker 1: say that, you know, this year, peak of the rut
Speaker 1: was maybe twenty three September, and we're gonna get pretty
Speaker 1: good rud action well into October. UM. It is kind
Speaker 1: of the timing of that. Now, the intensity of the
Speaker 1: rut one of the other categories I kind of want
Speaker 1: to break down the rut. The intensity was way way down.
Speaker 1: UM this year. The the full moon hit, I believe,
Speaker 1: Oh boy, I'm gonna guess I'm probably wrong. I want
Speaker 1: to say it hit towards the end of our New
Speaker 1: Mexico hunt. So you know, somewhere around the seventh or
Speaker 1: eighth we kind of got that full moon and then
Speaker 1: we were on the tail end of it. So I
Speaker 1: don't feel like, you know, the moon was necessarily a
Speaker 1: huge factor. A lot of times when you have full moon, UM,
Speaker 1: those elk kind of rotate the rut more into the
Speaker 1: to the night. They will they will get very intense
Speaker 1: at night, and you want to see as much running
Speaker 1: activity during the daylight. But I didn't see the moon
Speaker 1: really have any effect on the intensity. And that may
Speaker 1: have a have a strong correlation with the timing. Maybe
Speaker 1: they just weren't there yet, but is is we started
Speaker 1: to go from the full moon back to to no moon. Um,
Speaker 1: we didn't see like a linear you know, pick up
Speaker 1: on on the intensity of that rud. It didn't seem
Speaker 1: to like spark or get it going when we were
Speaker 1: in Oregon. UM, So in my opinion, the intensity was down.
Speaker 1: I'll talk a little bit about her behavior, which in
Speaker 1: my opinion, the intensity really has to do with the
Speaker 1: herd behavior, what the other sub dominant bowls are doing.
Speaker 1: And uh, a little bit of an observation I had
Speaker 1: on her behavior that really, uh was was not typical UM,
Speaker 1: especially for the areas that I got to hunt this year.
Speaker 1: So um, intensity seemed to be down. Now with that said,
Speaker 1: we we did get into some great action. UM we
Speaker 1: were able to finally get get the intensity turned up.
Speaker 1: But we talked about this a lot um when we're
Speaker 1: setting up and some of our calling strategies. I felt
Speaker 1: like a lot of that intensity was on my shoulders.
Speaker 1: We would locate a bowl maybe with just a response,
Speaker 1: I would locate vehicle or one of our collars, one
Speaker 1: of my buddies would locate vehgle and we would get
Speaker 1: an answer, but nothing too intense, nothing that was over
Speaker 1: the top, and we would move in and a lot
Speaker 1: of times we would want these you know, bulls to
Speaker 1: keep bugling. There really wasn't any of that. We would
Speaker 1: have to make a good decision. We would have to
Speaker 1: make a good call on where he was at, get
Speaker 1: in tight, and then have to work really really hard
Speaker 1: on getting his temperature turned up. You know he was
Speaker 1: he was very relaxed. UM, and this was morning and night. Typically,
Speaker 1: these these turn up the intensity situations have to happen
Speaker 1: when they're in bed or late morning early evening kind
Speaker 1: of before they really kind of get going or the
Speaker 1: herd starts moving. UM. This was morning and night UM,
Speaker 1: and throughout the day we would have to go get in,
Speaker 1: start to make calls, start to make excited caw calls, UM,
Speaker 1: excited Bugle's challenge beagles, and then we could slowly get
Speaker 1: the intensity turned up um and and high. In Idaho especially,
Speaker 1: these elk were not interested in answering you from across
Speaker 1: the canyon. They weren't really interested in answering you. You know,
Speaker 1: from six seven dred yards away. We had to get
Speaker 1: very very close. They would they would call on their own.
Speaker 1: Occasionally we had to take that little bit of information,
Speaker 1: develop our our plan, get the wind right. A lot
Speaker 1: of it was just a guess we thought they were
Speaker 1: in this area. Sometimes it would take us some time
Speaker 1: to get there, and we just had to kind of
Speaker 1: guess that they were still there. We would get in
Speaker 1: tight and then once we got within four, you know,
Speaker 1: three yards, we could start to hear them a little better.
Speaker 1: They were biggling very very quietly, without a ton of
Speaker 1: meaning a ton of force. That was just very very
Speaker 1: quiet baggling. But when we would get in set up,
Speaker 1: you know, let's say we were hundred fifty two yards away,
Speaker 1: we could start to get those bulls to to get
Speaker 1: that intensity picked up. UM. But it was a lot
Speaker 1: of work, and like I say, it was a little
Speaker 1: frustrating knowing UM running this multiple times on on different
Speaker 1: herd bowls and different satellite bowls that we were unable
Speaker 1: to get them the answer across the canyon, which really
Speaker 1: has you, UM, second guessing everything you do because you
Speaker 1: feel like you put yourself in a good spot. You
Speaker 1: feel like there should be elk there, there's elks in there,
Speaker 1: but yet you cannot get an answer UM. And so
Speaker 1: it's it's one of those real frustrating times UM. You
Speaker 1: know to be an arch realk hunter that likes to
Speaker 1: call because you really had no no idea if you
Speaker 1: were in elk or if you were an elk. UM.
Speaker 1: So you know that intensity. You want those things to
Speaker 1: answer back quicker, You want them to be interested, and
Speaker 1: you want them to continue to answer UM. Weather this year,
Speaker 1: the weather for UM, in my opinion, has a big
Speaker 1: effect on kind of snapping them into uh a better rut, UM,
Speaker 1: you know, a better rut from a hunter's perspective. The
Speaker 1: weather all across the West. I don't know too many places,
Speaker 1: if any that I've seen a bunch of rain or
Speaker 1: a bunch of weather issues. I would say my typical
Speaker 1: weather forecast from the first day we were in New
Speaker 1: Mexico on September one, all the way to the last
Speaker 1: day hunted Idaho in September. Um. Aside from the day
Speaker 1: before we drove into Idaho, which was a kind of
Speaker 1: a quick little wet mass, they're um, extremely hot, extremely dry,
Speaker 1: not a lot of water where there's typically water. Um.
Speaker 1: New Mexico. You know, it's more of a a man
Speaker 1: made water game. So there is water where we expected
Speaker 1: it to be, water through tanks and whatnot. Um. But
Speaker 1: the weather was very, very warm. And what's very frustrating
Speaker 1: for an archerial hunter is when you've got thirty to
Speaker 1: forty minutes to hunt in the morning and then you
Speaker 1: have to take a ten hour nap because those elk
Speaker 1: are completely not unresponsive the rest of the day until
Speaker 1: right before evening, and they're bedding themselves, all of them,
Speaker 1: not just a few of them. They all seem to
Speaker 1: bed in a flat top or a flat bottom where
Speaker 1: the wind just would not allow us to make an
Speaker 1: approach from from any direction. So UM, you know, weather
Speaker 1: was was hot. It was dry. Now. I don't mind
Speaker 1: clear and cool. I don't even mind some hot days.
Speaker 1: But we need, in my opinion, you want a little
Speaker 1: bit of rain, you want a little bit of cold,
Speaker 1: you know, and then and then a warm snap. You
Speaker 1: want some days where it doesn't get above fifty or
Speaker 1: sixty in the mountains instead of every day being you know,
Speaker 1: in the seventies. So, um, I think weather played a
Speaker 1: little bit. I don't think you just want the same
Speaker 1: static weather pattern for an entire month. It doesn't give you, um,
Speaker 1: you know, any of those you know, cold snaps or
Speaker 1: or you know, warm snaps and and and changes is
Speaker 1: really what you're looking for to kind of change the
Speaker 1: animal behavior. So weather didn't help us out at all
Speaker 1: this year. Herd behavior. This is more of an observation.
Speaker 1: When we go and locate elk either by you know,
Speaker 1: typically by um glassing them up, we noticed very very little,
Speaker 1: uh challenging. We noticed very very little um bold of
Speaker 1: bowl biggling or communication when they're out there. It seemed
Speaker 1: like the pecking order was very well established this year.
Speaker 1: And the herd bowls that were in the area we're
Speaker 1: running the show, and the satellite bowls really weren't that
Speaker 1: interested in messing with the herd bull at all. And uh,
Speaker 1: the most glaring instance of this was when I was
Speaker 1: in Oregon. You know, a very very good unit, a
Speaker 1: lot of bowls that are not only you know, upper end,
Speaker 1: but a whole bunch of bulls that are in that
Speaker 1: next tier, you know, very mature bowls, and most units
Speaker 1: will be running herds. We saw a very very little
Speaker 1: challenging from those bulls, and we saw a very very
Speaker 1: very little opportunity to call those bulls in. They were
Speaker 1: either by themselves non vocal or just not interested. You know.
Speaker 1: There was one evening we got into a little bit
Speaker 1: of a bugle fest. You know, it's a big brushy hole. Um,
Speaker 1: we kind of just all disregard for how much noise
Speaker 1: you're making. We kind of ran in there and we
Speaker 1: had a a mid size six kind of messing with
Speaker 1: with a mature you know, three twenty type six point.
Speaker 1: And that was really the only crazy bold bull action
Speaker 1: we had experienced aside from us trying to insert us
Speaker 1: into the into the calling games. So real, real weird, um,
Speaker 1: you know, herd behavior in New Mexico, Like I said,
Speaker 1: the only two bulls bigging at each other. Were the
Speaker 1: two biggest bowls that really didn't have any cows around
Speaker 1: or UM so real strange air aside from bulls just
Speaker 1: calling back and forth to each other across the canyon
Speaker 1: or maybe answering the location Bugle Oregon seemed to be
Speaker 1: herd behavior was one dominant bull with thirty cows kind
Speaker 1: of just running the show. Some smaller satellites really just
Speaker 1: feeding way off to the side. UM. In Idaho herd
Speaker 1: bulls were making a little bit of sound. We did
Speaker 1: have UM satellites around the herd ball calling UM, but real, real,
Speaker 1: non vocal. The herd bull was actually doing the majority
Speaker 1: of the calling, which is sometimes you know, not what
Speaker 1: happens a lot of times of satellite bowls will give
Speaker 1: away the herd. But yeah, just real weird where we
Speaker 1: didn't have a lot of satellite bowls keeping that herd
Speaker 1: bull talking so that we can make good decisions, plan
Speaker 1: our approach, get the wind right, and do all this
Speaker 1: stuff we normally do. UM. Herd behavior was was definitely
Speaker 1: UM down this year as far as subordinate bulls challenging
Speaker 1: for the herd or pestering the herd bowl And then
Speaker 1: the main thing I'm looking at as far as how
Speaker 1: the rut goes is how callable were the bulls, um,
Speaker 1: and this is where you had great success in the past,
Speaker 1: and some of these same units are very similar units.
Speaker 1: In the Mexico. Being as early as we were, we
Speaker 1: had very very uh lackluster results, I would say, as
Speaker 1: far as being able to call a bull into our lap.
Speaker 1: You know, the very first day September one, we were
Speaker 1: able to call in what I would call even a
Speaker 1: more immatura bowl um two very close range. He was
Speaker 1: full of piston vinegar um. He was one of those
Speaker 1: bulls where once he respawned a couple of times, you're like,
Speaker 1: all right, I can throw anything at him, you know,
Speaker 1: a couple of challenge beagles breaking a tree, and we
Speaker 1: had that bull come in and then from there on
Speaker 1: out we watched a very large, five point very mature
Speaker 1: bowl go from having cows to losing his cows. And
Speaker 1: then when we when he lost his cows, um, You're like,
Speaker 1: all right, I'm just gonna go in and cow call
Speaker 1: this bowl. And it seems like a perfect opportunity for
Speaker 1: him to get cows back. Just really not interested. So
Speaker 1: we we ramped it up to beagles and he just
Speaker 1: he just wasn't in there, said he was gonna stay
Speaker 1: a hundred yards hundred twenty yards off and and not
Speaker 1: make any um you know change. Now, we did get
Speaker 1: into a lot of calling battles, but it seemed like
Speaker 1: the ability to move these elk you know, the last
Speaker 1: uh forty fift yards sometimes it's very very difficult. Um. Also,
Speaker 1: bowls that just weren't interested in in committing. They would
Speaker 1: they would call back and forth. You could play the
Speaker 1: you know, I'm over here, you're over there. Game. We
Speaker 1: can let each other know where we're at. But um,
Speaker 1: the ability to move that elk um you know, midday
Speaker 1: or late morning just wasn't gonna happen. If they weren't
Speaker 1: on their way to feed or to bed, they weren't
Speaker 1: really going to change the location. I think that comes
Speaker 1: back to the weather and the heat. They just weren't
Speaker 1: going to pull themselves, um you know, off of their um.
Speaker 1: We did have a couple other chances, they're just for
Speaker 1: one reason or another, couldn't get them to commit move
Speaker 1: to Oregon. About as frustrating of elk hunting with a
Speaker 1: call in my mouth that I've ever experienced. During the
Speaker 1: Red um these bulls did not want you to get close.
Speaker 1: You know, our our normal game plan is get very
Speaker 1: very close, Um extrus wine, challenge Bogle in his face.
Speaker 1: You're basically saying, there's a bull there to take your cows.
Speaker 1: That was maybe the worst thing we could do is
Speaker 1: get close in Bogle, because they would find enough time
Speaker 1: they didn't really care. We had multiple bowls walk away
Speaker 1: from their cows when they are the herd bulls. Um.
Speaker 1: They would just leave if they couldn't round up their
Speaker 1: cows and leaves. So we realized very quickly we couldn't
Speaker 1: call to the herd bowl, so we switched to cal calling.
Speaker 1: Let's getting close in cal call. We did have a
Speaker 1: couple of callings that were very successful with cal calls,
Speaker 1: but then a bunch of scenarios where it didn't work. UM.
Speaker 1: So we would get in close, we would try to
Speaker 1: cal call, and once again they would either leave or
Speaker 1: it would put eyes on us and by time we
Speaker 1: would get something set up, UM, it didn't work out.
Speaker 1: But a lot of times that bowl was not interested
Speaker 1: in listening to cal call. Um. He would once again
Speaker 1: kind of round his cows up and leave UM and
Speaker 1: it turned into Oregon. We were hunting elk a lot
Speaker 1: like meal deer with the boat. Be very very quiet,
Speaker 1: try to be you know, sneak into shooting position. Um,
Speaker 1: try to get into an ambush position ahead of them.
Speaker 1: And time after time, you know, we'd find ourselves kind
Speaker 1: of coming back to hey, calling should work here, and
Speaker 1: we would. You would try to resist that the whole
Speaker 1: way you'd go to make a call, and sure enough
Speaker 1: you would screw the whole thing up again. So very uncollable, Idaho.
Speaker 1: The elk we're collable. Once we would find them, Like
Speaker 1: I said, they were very very quiet, but once we
Speaker 1: were getting close, get them to start talking. On multiple occasions, um,
Speaker 1: we were able to call elk in into shooting range
Speaker 1: um or they would come in silent. But they did
Speaker 1: what elk did. Like I don't necessarily think that, you know,
Speaker 1: elk are always gonna come in biggling. We had the
Speaker 1: outcome in silent. We had opportunities um and and things
Speaker 1: did line up. So Idaho, they were definitely more collable.
Speaker 1: So my my button, my recap on you know the
Speaker 1: rut here the elk Upo seems to be a little
Speaker 1: bit later in cities, seemed to be down at least
Speaker 1: during bow season. I wouldn't be surprised right now. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, if those bulls weren't still talking very well
Speaker 1: into the end of October. Um weather was hot. We
Speaker 1: need a little bit of different weather to to kind
Speaker 1: of break that up. Herd behavior seemed to be down.
Speaker 1: We didn't have you know, satellite bulls challenging and then
Speaker 1: call ability. UM, I don't know if it was the
Speaker 1: area of the units I was in compared to normal,
Speaker 1: but um, you know, the first two hunts were frustrating,
Speaker 1: especially having back to back in New Mexico hunts where
Speaker 1: they were extremely collable in one, not very collable in
Speaker 1: twenty two, and then one of the best units in
Speaker 1: Oregon just having it very, very tough to be able
Speaker 1: to call to these bulls. Um, what was real frustrating.
Speaker 1: So that's kind of my recap on this year's rut,
Speaker 1: and that's kind of breaking it down on timing, intensity,
Speaker 1: the weather we experienced, what the herd behavior like, and
Speaker 1: what the call ability was. So. Um, Like I said,
Speaker 1: I think if we continue to get these slight changes
Speaker 1: in later winners, later springs, we're going to continue to
Speaker 1: maybe get this rut. Timing moved back, which I don't
Speaker 1: know if I'm ready to to start to plan around
Speaker 1: that or not, but we may start looking into, UM
Speaker 1: pushing our archery hunts later into September, maybe moved from
Speaker 1: you know, if we can get rifle tags earlier in October,
Speaker 1: we may start using that to our advantage and seeing
Speaker 1: if what I believe is happening UM can translate into
Speaker 1: into some hunter success. So UM, once again, thank you
Speaker 1: very much for tuning into cutting the distance. UM. This
Speaker 1: is kind of my uh my synopsis on the field
Speaker 1: reports for Elkret