Speaker 1: From Mahard that we're Innovation Money and Power Collie in
Speaker 1: Silicon Vallet NBN.
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde.
Speaker 3: And Ed lud Love.
Speaker 4: Live from New York.
Speaker 5: This is Bloomberg Technology coming up PC sales. They're stalling,
Speaker 5: causing Dell to fall following its third quarter earnings.
Speaker 4: Will break it all down.
Speaker 5: Plus soft Bank wants to boost its stake in open Ai,
Speaker 5: looking to buy out to our one point five billion
Speaker 5: dollars in shares from the startups employees, and Wicked and
Speaker 5: gladiated to have kicked off what's likely to be a
Speaker 5: strong holiday season for cinemas. We bring you the content
Speaker 5: to consume this Thanksgiving, but first we check on these markets.
Speaker 5: And we've got some good news being bad news. Basically,
Speaker 5: we've got a strong set of data in the economy.
Speaker 5: We've still got PCE, that gauge of consumer price points
Speaker 5: that the fedso looks at coming in where we expected
Speaker 5: two point eight percent growth, but that is still strong.
Speaker 5: And maybe we get a more cautious FED into a
Speaker 5: rate cutting cycle. Maybe we don't cut at the anticipated rates,
Speaker 5: so we see a sell off in the markets as
Speaker 5: perhaps that's the changing of the guard when the Federal
Speaker 5: Reserve view, we're off by one point one percent. Big
Speaker 5: Tech sells off the most video for example, down by
Speaker 5: more than three percent. But not just from a point's perspective.
Speaker 5: What leads us lower on the SMP is some of
Speaker 5: the earnings that we got. Let's just look at what's
Speaker 5: happening on the likes of Dell HP, both of them
Speaker 5: key drags on the S and P five hundred. Today,
Speaker 5: I'm looking at hping of by thirteen percent almost let's
Speaker 5: call it, Dell off by twelve percent, both of these
Speaker 5: signifying that that recovery in PC demand just isn't really
Speaker 5: happening at the pace that we are anticipating. We've also
Speaker 5: got some AI to weave into all of this. We
Speaker 5: can do it at Bloomberg's Brody Ford body. Let's start
Speaker 5: with Dell, because this is a company that not only
Speaker 5: is focusing in on the AI server perspective, but this
Speaker 5: is all about PC hardware and a recovery that just
Speaker 5: isn't happening.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I am speaking to you currently on a laptop
Speaker 6: that I bought in summer twenty twenty, and I'm still
Speaker 6: happy with it.
Speaker 7: Right, I mean, they want me to buy a new one.
Speaker 7: I get advertisements all the time, but I'm still sticking
Speaker 7: with this laptop that's pushing five years old. And the
Speaker 7: data shows that I'm not alone. It seems like a lot.
Speaker 6: Of businesses and consumers bought these laptops in the early
Speaker 6: days of the pandemic. And you know, for a while now,
Speaker 6: the Hps and Dells of the world have said the
Speaker 6: PC market recovery is just a quarter or two out.
Speaker 4: It's coming.
Speaker 6: People are going to buy new computers.
Speaker 3: It's time, and as we've seen in these earnings, it
Speaker 3: just keeps.
Speaker 7: Getting pushed out as folks, you know, they're tight on
Speaker 7: their budgets, they're spending money elsewhere, and they're still happy
Speaker 7: with that hardware they got, you know, a couple of
Speaker 7: years ago.
Speaker 5: All eyes are the forecast being a little bit weak
Speaker 5: and then anticipated keeping it quick. For us, Brady forward,
Speaker 5: we really appreciate that roundup of numbers. We've got more
Speaker 5: earnings to report to go through. Of course, CrowdStrike having
Speaker 5: a look at shares off by four and a half percent.
Speaker 5: We can detail this with Margi Murphy joining us on
Speaker 5: the fact that boy, we go back to the summer,
Speaker 5: we go to the impact on Microsoft.
Speaker 4: We think about.
Speaker 5: The offline implications of CrowdStrike.
Speaker 4: Have they recovered right?
Speaker 8: Yeah, So July nineteenth, we have had this global tech
Speaker 8: outage after CrowdStrike pushed out a software update impacting.
Speaker 4: Devices using Windows operating systems.
Speaker 8: It looks like, you know, it was their second report
Speaker 8: since this glitch, and it looks like sales haven't been
Speaker 8: hit by it. However, shares dropped when investors read about
Speaker 8: the estimates for the earnings of for share in the.
Speaker 4: For the next earnings report.
Speaker 8: So that's eighty four cents to eighty six cents when
Speaker 8: the analysts we're expecting eighty seven cents, which suggests that
Speaker 8: they're not out of the woods quite yet and the
Speaker 8: headwinds could continue.
Speaker 5: Talk to us a little bit about a thirty two
Speaker 5: million dollar deal with Parasoft in particular, and whether or
Speaker 5: not we're getting deals pushed out or canceled or any
Speaker 5: rethinking ultimately on demand for products coming from CrowdStrike.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the company did refer to this illness.
Speaker 8: Earnings were cool, but currently basing, very focused and talking
Speaker 8: about their products to come. In terms of the AI
Speaker 8: and updates there. In terms of deals with the government,
Speaker 8: they were pretty tight lipped.
Speaker 4: On that, so more to see.
Speaker 5: That must be noted that third quarter revenue did actually
Speaker 5: come in better than expective. Maggie Murphy on the breakdown
Speaker 5: of what happened with CrowdStrike, more earnings, tech more broadly,
Speaker 5: let's talk about all of it. Angela, Bastien Pillies with
Speaker 5: us picked up asset management. It is wonderful to have
Speaker 5: some time in the ANGELI and just we're trying to
Speaker 5: understand whether this whole exuberance around generative AI, whether the
Speaker 5: desire to get into the infrastructure really is implicating saying
Speaker 5: you're on my demand for PC, you're a my demand
Speaker 5: for new protection and cybersecurity that involves general to AI.
Speaker 4: Is it being translated yet?
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's quite interesting. I think there's a huge expectation
Speaker 9: obviously on journey of AI. It's been two years now,
Speaker 9: we're in November twenty twenty four now, since the launch
Speaker 9: of judg EBT. I think what's interesting is that the
Speaker 9: buildout is creating a lot of demand for all sorts
Speaker 9: of new technologies. I think you mentioned the PC, the smartphones.
Speaker 9: I think clearly HBM high band with memory. Nobody would
Speaker 9: have expected that demand to be so high even a
Speaker 9: year ago. I think that trickles down to PC smartphones.
Speaker 9: Of course lackluster numbers today, but at the same time,
Speaker 9: when you think about AI on the edge and what
Speaker 9: can come around any smartphone, including obviously the iPhone seventeen,
Speaker 9: which is all they expected to increase their memory by
Speaker 9: at least fifty percent for the next round of innovations.
Speaker 9: So I think AI on the edge HM high band
Speaker 9: with memory famous Moore's law now also embedding you know,
Speaker 9: a lot more memory in order to run Geneva. I
Speaker 9: I think that buildout is creating a lot of demand
Speaker 9: for obviously different technologies from semiconductor design all the way
Speaker 9: to semiconductor software, but also to the actual equipment makers
Speaker 9: who also now see sort of demand for this advanced
Speaker 9: packaging that I mentioned earlier. So I think where we
Speaker 9: are is also an S curve. So the infrastructure build
Speaker 9: out of c very important. But even in the second
Speaker 9: third phase, there's some very interesting, you know, investments that
Speaker 9: we see in software now starting to embed more and more.
Speaker 9: Jenny VII, I mean you mentioned CrowdStrike earlier. That's a
Speaker 9: great example where there's a talent shortage where Jenny I
Speaker 9: can actually help you. You know, CrowdStrike has a product
Speaker 9: called CHARLOTTYI, so that helps you also find problems or event.
Speaker 9: Data driven information can be used within Genovai as well
Speaker 9: within the products that they sell, and that's quite interesting
Speaker 9: there about.
Speaker 5: The question though for many is there's interesting s clubs,
Speaker 5: there's there's interesting opportunity. You talk about the whole bandwidth
Speaker 5: where you could be allocating money, But are the valuations
Speaker 5: already reflecting the optimism that we get AI at the
Speaker 5: edge we will start adopting it.
Speaker 9: So I think on valuations it's an interesting sort of dilemma.
Speaker 9: I think right now, I think there's a lot going
Speaker 9: on in terms of the obviously profitability revenues that you
Speaker 9: see today and probably justifies a lot of it. But
Speaker 9: I think moving forward to a bigger, I think pool
Speaker 9: of potential investments opportunities beyond the tech stocks. If you
Speaker 9: want all the information technology stocks, I think you see
Speaker 9: a lot of other areas which are not necessarily related
Speaker 9: to it, which can have very you know, obviously interesting valuations,
Speaker 9: also interesting opportunities. So when you look through beyond an
Speaker 9: index or beyond a handful of stocks, I think there
Speaker 9: can be some very interesting opportunities there where the valuations
Speaker 9: may not be as high, and also the potential remains
Speaker 9: still very very strong because there was.
Speaker 5: Some example, are you talking about energy opportunities, you talk
Speaker 5: about other spaces within software that for example hasn't already
Speaker 5: been priced in like a Palenteer.
Speaker 9: So I think we look at everything from like I
Speaker 9: mentioned some of the equipment makers which play a big role,
Speaker 9: and the whole US reshowing you're showing. I mean, there's
Speaker 9: huge subsidies out there and huge sort of investments that
Speaker 9: are all the out there for a huge number of
Speaker 9: these new buildouts of Semiconustric.
Speaker 5: Intel you're saying, and even a TSMC in this geopolitical environment.
Speaker 9: So if you take under the reshowing sor if you're
Speaker 9: showing sort of examples, if you take Micron, TSMC, Intel, Samsung,
Speaker 9: you have more than three hundred and twenty five billion
Speaker 9: of all the you know, sort of expenses out there
Speaker 9: in terms of building out these brand new factories. So
Speaker 9: I think there that means that you're going to embed
Speaker 9: a lot of new equipment within those factories and then
Speaker 9: obviously a lot of other softwares and even industrial robotics
Speaker 9: within those trees. Because these chips sometimes are so heavy
Speaker 9: you need robotics arms to carry them. So those are
Speaker 9: the sort of examples where you can look beyond sort of,
Speaker 9: you know, some of the obvious IT stocks that very
Speaker 9: often would fall into that category of valuations being a
Speaker 9: bit tricky.
Speaker 5: Your CV is so fascinating because, like me, you sort
Speaker 5: of started focusing in on the bomb market, credit, and
Speaker 5: then you've really dived into some niche areas that everyone's.
Speaker 4: Now interested in digitalization.
Speaker 5: Robotics, As you say security, Where are we going to see,
Speaker 5: for example, the robotics reimagining come in? Where is it
Speaker 5: US based companies? Is it global?
Speaker 9: Interesting? I think on the robotics side, you can look
Speaker 9: at everything from actual industrial robotics, so factory arms that
Speaker 9: help you build semiconductor chips or eb cars, et cetera.
Speaker 9: But the automation behind robotics is quite interesting in terms
Speaker 9: of expanding through software through all these data driven decisions,
Speaker 9: both for industrial and for enterprise. Actually, there's a very
Speaker 9: interesting chart that I often use about the growth since
Speaker 9: twenty twenty one to thirty about the semiconductor industry, and
Speaker 9: you will see the growth rate is actually quite interesting
Speaker 9: in the automotive and the industrial sector, and that's.
Speaker 4: Also obviously driving a lot of MENA.
Speaker 9: Recently Zeeman's acquiring Altare or even Synopsis acquiring ANSS. There's
Speaker 9: a lot of emine in that space because the hardware,
Speaker 9: if you want, is supplemented more and more with the software,
Speaker 9: but also the data driven decisions. I think that in
Speaker 9: the field of roboties will be quite interesting going forward.
Speaker 4: Angelae, great to have some time with you.
Speaker 5: Come back, thank you asually past MLA FicT Asset Management. I.
Speaker 4: Meanwhile, coming up, we're going to be joined by the.
Speaker 5: CEO of Metanics on the company's earnings results, his thoughts
Speaker 5: on trends in enterprise spending in general to AI.
Speaker 4: This is bloom bag technology.
Speaker 5: Infrastructure software company Btanics for the first quarter results fiscal
Speaker 5: first quarter and gave an outlook seen as pretty positive
Speaker 5: by analyst. Shares though coming off of their highs on
Speaker 5: the day, we're now trading lower. Let's talk about it
Speaker 5: with the Newtanic CEO regime Ramaswami joining us now and
Speaker 5: people feeling that perhaps you had good set of growth
Speaker 5: but cautious outlook here, particularly when it comes to federal spending.
Speaker 4: Can you just talk us through some of that caution.
Speaker 3: Yes, thank you, Carolyn. Great to be on here. If
Speaker 3: we had a good quarter.
Speaker 10: We exceeded all our guided metrics, and we also were
Speaker 10: able to raise our guide for Q two, but we
Speaker 10: felt it prudent to keep our revenue guide for the
Speaker 10: full year the same while we raised our free cash
Speaker 10: pro guide.
Speaker 3: Now, this quarter we had a relatively weak federal business.
Speaker 3: It's usually the peak business for FED, given it's their
Speaker 3: year end.
Speaker 10: We expect FED spending to return to normal levels more
Speaker 10: or less in Q two, But then we have a
Speaker 10: new administration coming on board in January, and you know,
Speaker 10: we don't exactly know what's going to happen, but we
Speaker 10: have to adapt to whatever may happen with the new administration,
Speaker 10: and so we're being a bit cautious about the FED
Speaker 10: overall for the rest of the year, and it's one
Speaker 10: of the reasons.
Speaker 3: Why we kept our fullier revenue outlook the same.
Speaker 5: We can see the last three months your shares have
Speaker 5: done well, up some thirty percent.
Speaker 4: Morgan Stanley was putting it out there.
Speaker 5: That they feel technology spend is more immune to perhaps
Speaker 5: the belt tightening we're going to see more broadly with
Speaker 5: the new administration.
Speaker 4: Do you feel that.
Speaker 5: Sort of viewpoint, does usually you ride out any cutbacks?
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think fundamentally when I look at every company,
Speaker 10: including governments and organizations, are becoming software entities more and
Speaker 10: more because they rely on applications and data to drive
Speaker 10: their businesses more so than ever, and so from that perspective,
Speaker 10: they have to make the right investments and technology, especially software.
Speaker 3: So I look at it and.
Speaker 10: Say, there's an overall macro situation, and within that situation,
Speaker 10: text sped will probably do slightly better than whatever you
Speaker 10: see in macro, and within that software spending is probably
Speaker 10: going to be better, right as they have to invest
Speaker 10: in these key initiatives. Now, all that said, though, we've
Speaker 10: talked for several quarters about how people are being very
Speaker 10: careful about making sure they get the benefit for what
Speaker 10: they spend, looking at the returnal investment, looking at the
Speaker 10: total cost of ownership benefits. And that's one of the
Speaker 10: things that we very much provide as a company and
Speaker 10: when customers pick us to run their applications and data,
Speaker 10: and that's.
Speaker 5: Been the selling point of hyperconverged infrastructure more broadly, because
Speaker 5: you're doing this storage, the computing, the networks altogether I'm
Speaker 5: interested as youve though, with that come some supply chain
Speaker 5: headaches that you suffered in the past. I go back
Speaker 5: a few years and you were very well versed at
Speaker 5: talking us through macro headwinds. When you're looking at geopolitics
Speaker 5: as it is, do you have any worries about your
Speaker 5: own supply chain or access to certain hardware for example?
Speaker 10: Yeah, First of all, to be clear, we are a
Speaker 10: software company, but customers run our software on hardware, so
Speaker 10: their access hardware is important for them to run our
Speaker 10: software right, and that's the indirect dependency that we have
Speaker 10: on the supply chain.
Speaker 3: Now, what we've done on our front is we provided.
Speaker 10: A lot of diversity and choice for customers. They can
Speaker 10: pick their choice of server vendors across the spectrum pretty
Speaker 10: much any server vendor and run our software on it.
Speaker 10: So that helps them diversify a bit from any supply
Speaker 10: chain shortages that might come on board because.
Speaker 3: They do have this broad choice. And as a software company,
Speaker 3: that's what we try and do.
Speaker 10: We try and provide that flexibility and freedom of choice
Speaker 10: so that our customers can conduct their business.
Speaker 5: And you've been building out partnership, so it's interesting that
Speaker 5: on the same day as your numbers. We digest Dell
Speaker 5: of course, big in server AI servers and good growth
Speaker 5: there for them.
Speaker 4: Perhaps the market got ahead of that growth.
Speaker 5: I'm interested as to how the market's digesting your own
Speaker 5: generative AI focus.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for us, our generative focus AAI focuses pretty early.
Speaker 10: If you look at AI overall in the market, a
Speaker 10: lot of the money has been spent on training, large
Speaker 10: language models and massive compute clusters, driven by a relatively
Speaker 10: small number of high spenders. The vast majority of enterprises
Speaker 10: and government organizations.
Speaker 3: These are our customers.
Speaker 10: You know, there's one hundred thousand of them around plus
Speaker 10: around the world. Today we have about twenty six thousands
Speaker 10: of them as our customers. They are still in the
Speaker 10: early stages of deploying and adopting GENERALLYBAI. Most of them
Speaker 10: are first of all going to be consuming these models
Speaker 10: that are pre trained, and they're going to be using
Speaker 10: it for inferencing, fine tuning, rag and inferencing so that
Speaker 10: they can get real productivity gains. For example, improve the
Speaker 10: productivity of their developers, improve their customer support, I'll get
Speaker 10: better means to do fraud detection.
Speaker 3: As an example. These are some of the applications that
Speaker 3: companies around the world and organizations are trying to build.
Speaker 10: We provide a simple platform that provides a turnkey way
Speaker 10: for them to build and deploy those genera AVIAI inferencing applications,
Speaker 10: and so that market is still early. Most companies are
Speaker 10: at this point incubating these applications.
Speaker 3: We've seen some go to production.
Speaker 10: I do think twenty twenty five and twenty twenty six
Speaker 10: are going to be big years as companies take those
Speaker 10: applications to production.
Speaker 5: Still wedding regime from Aswami, it's great tows some time
Speaker 5: with the NTANIC CEO there. Jamison Greer, who is President
Speaker 5: elect Donald Trump's pick for the top trade position, sees
Speaker 5: China as a quote generational challenge to the United States,
Speaker 5: has advocated for a strategic decoupling from the country, and
Speaker 5: he's actually already played a pretty key role in imposing
Speaker 5: TARIS on China during Trump's first term. Let's get to
Speaker 5: grips of it from a tech perspective with Blumbags Mike
Speaker 5: Sheppard in d C.
Speaker 4: Mike, Look, we.
Speaker 5: Once again are just getting the feeling that anyone with
Speaker 5: exposure to China supply chain or demand is going to
Speaker 5: having a tough time.
Speaker 11: That's right, Caroline, And the selection of Jameson Greer, as
Speaker 11: you noted, really signals a direction of travel for this
Speaker 11: incoming administration.
Speaker 2: That may be hard for companies to avoid.
Speaker 11: There have been some hope that the naming of Scott Pissent,
Speaker 11: for example, as the incoming Treasury Secretary, could mean that
Speaker 11: Trump might temper his desire to impose tariffs of this
Speaker 11: much as sixty percent on Chinese goods the way he
Speaker 11: had promised on the campaign trail. But picking Jamison Greer
Speaker 11: for this key trade position, which will negotiate and elaborate
Speaker 11: US trade policy, suggests otherwise.
Speaker 2: Very much so.
Speaker 11: And when we talk about this strategic decoupling, Greer has
Speaker 11: left us a few clues and about what that means
Speaker 11: and how he could pursue it. For one, he has
Speaker 11: floated the idea of revoking China's permanent normal Trade relation status,
Speaker 11: and this is one that was granted to Beijing back
Speaker 11: in two thousand when China was trying to enter the
Speaker 11: World Trade Organization. That would put China back on the
Speaker 11: same footing as Russia, Cuba, and North Korea, and it
Speaker 11: would subject Chinese goods through a range of terrorists that
Speaker 11: are exempted from right now.
Speaker 2: The other thing he.
Speaker 11: Has talked about doing is expanding export controls of the
Speaker 11: kind that we've seen the Biden administration imposed and a
Speaker 11: range of tech products, and all of this is huge
Speaker 11: ramifications for companies like Apple and Intel and venture investors.
Speaker 4: Well precisely, I'm Tim Cook.
Speaker 5: I'm sat there reading this hypothesis and this generational challenge.
Speaker 5: Am I going to sit there confidently that I'm going
Speaker 5: to get some exemption that I'm a carve out.
Speaker 11: If you're Tim Cook, you already know Donald Trump pretty
Speaker 11: well from his first term in office, and you will
Speaker 11: remember the experience that you went through as he imposed
Speaker 11: harraffs on goods coming in from China. And he knows
Speaker 11: that he will need to intercede and intervene pretty quickly
Speaker 11: and very personally with the president. Donald Trump is somebody
Speaker 11: who likes to engage with CEOs and businesses and is
Speaker 11: willing to hear them out. But the time to act
Speaker 11: is sooner rather than later.
Speaker 2: So you can.
Speaker 11: Expect that top executives will be trying to get Donald
Speaker 11: Trump's here and even also talk to Jamison Greer and
Speaker 11: other top economic officials like Scott Piscent incoming Treasury Chief,
Speaker 11: and then also the person he designated it his National
Speaker 11: Economic Council Director, and that is Kevin Hazard, whom he.
Speaker 2: Named last night.
Speaker 5: Another person recognized from the first administration, Mike Shephard, Thank
Speaker 5: you so much. Like talking of one key CEO who
Speaker 5: has Trump's ear. Let's get today's Tech Daily, written by
Speaker 5: Blue mos Kirk Wagner, who says Elon Musk is about
Speaker 5: to twitterize the US government in his new official role
Speaker 5: as a head of the Department of Government Efficiency, an
Speaker 5: unofficial Trump anointed group tasked with identifying some two trillion
Speaker 5: dollars in spending cuts.
Speaker 4: Kurt joins us.
Speaker 5: Now, look, we can debate whether two trillion is ever
Speaker 5: really a reality or a figure that can be attained,
Speaker 5: but boy, we can kind of sense what's coming from
Speaker 5: what happened to Twitter now X.
Speaker 12: Yeah, we've been here before, right two years ago, we
Speaker 12: were watching him basically go into another institution, in this
Speaker 12: case Twitter, and got the company right. And we're seeing
Speaker 12: a lot of the same strategies come forward already in
Speaker 12: this sort of first couple weeks of the Department of
Speaker 12: Government Efficiency. So you know, he said he's going to
Speaker 12: eliminate work from home. He's going to have, you know,
Speaker 12: dramatic cost cuts on headcount for people. We know that
Speaker 12: he's going to do things at a million miles per hour.
Speaker 12: That's what Elon Musk does with everything. And I think
Speaker 12: the point of this kind of column this morning was
Speaker 12: to remind people that when he did that at Twitter,
Speaker 12: he did succeed in the sense that Twitter still operates
Speaker 12: on a much smaller budget than it did before. But
Speaker 12: he broke a lot of things along the way.
Speaker 5: He broke and therefore maybe you make the point this
Speaker 5: might not be healthy, It might.
Speaker 4: Be achievable, might be doable, but is it healthy? And look,
Speaker 4: one social media.
Speaker 5: Platform versus the US government functioning is a very different thing.
Speaker 12: Right, and it's not a perfect Apple Staples comparison. But
Speaker 12: I think what we saw from the Twitter example was
Speaker 12: that he was very comfortable just saying we're going to
Speaker 12: do these cuts, We're going to do them as fast
Speaker 12: as possile, well, and then we'll go back and fix
Speaker 12: things afterwards. I don't think it's going to be that simple,
Speaker 12: of course, when you you know, do this at the
Speaker 12: size and scale of the US government. And so my
Speaker 12: hope of course as a citizen here of the US
Speaker 12: is that he's a little bit more thoughtful here and
Speaker 12: that he doesn't just slash and burn and then try
Speaker 12: to go back and fix those mistakes later on, because
Speaker 12: that might not be possible in the government situation in
Speaker 12: the same way that you know he tried to do
Speaker 12: with Twitter.
Speaker 4: It's a great read.
Speaker 5: Go to check out the Tech Daily Today, author by
Speaker 5: Ko Wagner.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much.
Speaker 5: Welcome back to Blomberg Technology from Caroline Hide in New York.
Speaker 5: Let's just talk about crypto and or the future of
Speaker 5: it at the moment. With the usc FTC, the relatively
Speaker 5: underfunded regulator that's been overshadowed by the SEC, now a
Speaker 5: path too prominence. If the incoming Trump administration really revamps
Speaker 5: crypto policy and installs an industry leaning chair Republicans control
Speaker 5: in Congress and the White House, the agency's jurisdiction might
Speaker 5: actually expand dramatically, including two major tokens such as bitcoin
Speaker 5: and eve. Let's bring in Bill Harris more around how
Speaker 5: you should be thinking about crypto and your wealth within
Speaker 5: it Fanta seeo of Evergreen Wealth, but also formacy of
Speaker 5: PayPal intuit. You'll understand how to build businesses. I'm interested
Speaker 5: when you're looking at the regulatory overview, when you're looking
Speaker 5: at everyone suddenly probably coolling you up, wanting to know
Speaker 5: how their investments in crypto are looking and how they
Speaker 5: should make the most of them.
Speaker 4: Do you make changes ahead of an administration change?
Speaker 2: Yes, of course.
Speaker 1: What you do is you try to anticipate where it's going,
Speaker 1: and in my particular arena financial services and particularly financial technology,
Speaker 1: there is likely to be a significant reduction in the
Speaker 1: regulatory burden for particularly the people who are working with
Speaker 1: new assets such as crypto.
Speaker 5: Of course, PayPal has been making inroads into that space.
Speaker 5: They've been adopting and offering it far more. Do you
Speaker 5: think this has become a much more ubiquitous asset class.
Speaker 1: More broadly, well, certainly as it starts to show up
Speaker 1: in and ETFs and things like that.
Speaker 2: The answer is yes.
Speaker 1: In terms of actual holding, I don't think so, because
Speaker 1: most of the people who want to hold it directly
Speaker 1: are already working through exchanges.
Speaker 5: And when you're thinking, before I get onto what everyone's
Speaker 5: asking you about how to hold crypto and how to
Speaker 5: make it most beneficial, I want to know with your head,
Speaker 5: your hat on of having led businesses such as into
Speaker 5: It and PayPal. How do you start talking to people
Speaker 5: in government at this moment, How do you start discussing
Speaker 5: it with your employee base, how things might look more
Speaker 5: uncertain going into the new year.
Speaker 1: In terms of talking to government, it's really important as
Speaker 1: they're coming in to try to make contacts with people
Speaker 1: that are likely to be in decision making positions, particularly
Speaker 1: in my case for financial services, with the employees. There's
Speaker 1: not a whole lot to say, particularly because in our
Speaker 1: particular business and we focus on investment taxes amongst others things,
Speaker 1: it is likely to be more of the same rather
Speaker 1: than big changes.
Speaker 2: And the reason being the real.
Speaker 1: Unknown has for a long time been whether the Tax
Speaker 1: Cut and Jobs.
Speaker 2: Act would be extended.
Speaker 1: At the end of twenty twenty five, it's now clear
Speaker 1: that it will be extended. What's the impact. The impact
Speaker 1: is there will be no changes in many of the
Speaker 1: aspects of the investment tax arena.
Speaker 5: Okay, so let's talk about wealth built up during the
Speaker 5: course of twenty twenty four. Marcus done well, crypto has exploded.
Speaker 5: I'm sad on a whole load of increased value.
Speaker 4: Yes, well, does one do?
Speaker 5: Does one therefore sell out if it's that thought of
Speaker 5: a fund that they've been getting into.
Speaker 4: We're not talking about your four oh one K. We're
Speaker 4: not talking about put it away. We're talk about people
Speaker 4: who've been trading this.
Speaker 1: It's a very difficult thing from a tax point of view.
Speaker 1: Crypto's kind of a mess because it is not treated
Speaker 1: like currency. From the tax point of view, it's treated
Speaker 1: as property, and that means it's tax the same way
Speaker 1: that most securities are.
Speaker 2: And so you've got capital gain.
Speaker 1: A capital gain is the best kind of income to
Speaker 1: be taxed on. First of all, it's lower tax rate
Speaker 1: than ordinary income, but it's also then there are many
Speaker 1: things you can do about the timing of recognizing capital gain.
Speaker 1: If you don't do that, if you don't think about
Speaker 1: the timing, then you're going to be hit by anything
Speaker 1: from twenty percent to thirty five percent capital gains tax
Speaker 1: when you sell at a gain.
Speaker 2: There are some.
Speaker 1: Really terrific things you can do to reduce, offset, defer,
Speaker 1: or even eliminate that capital gains tax, but you have
Speaker 1: to be smart about it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we're talking about tax efficiency here, not tax avoidance.
Speaker 5: What is efficient, particularly if you're thinking time of year
Speaker 5: I'm going to be a given kind of a person.
Speaker 5: There's a lot of chargeable giving you can do by
Speaker 5: using and locking in those gains.
Speaker 1: Yes, both charitable giving and family gifting, both those are
Speaker 1: ways you can eliminate the capital gains that you would
Speaker 1: otherwise pay. If you're going to do a charitable deduction
Speaker 1: or if you're a charitable donation, the best way to
Speaker 1: do it is with a donor advised fund a DAFF.
Speaker 2: And the reason is this.
Speaker 1: First of all, there are two benefits for gift giving
Speaker 1: to charity. Number one, you do not pay any unrealized
Speaker 1: capital gains. You never pay tax on that unrealized gain.
Speaker 1: In addition, if you itemize, you also get a charitable deduction.
Speaker 1: So it's a two for It can be great. What's
Speaker 1: the problem. There are not many charities that are even
Speaker 1: able to contemplate taking crypto and you have to pass
Speaker 1: it as crypto. You can't yourself turn it to FIAT
Speaker 1: and then pass it because then the gain is yours.
Speaker 1: But donor advised funds allows you to put the crypto
Speaker 1: into the fund. You can take the tax exemption this
Speaker 1: tax year, and then you can decide when you want
Speaker 1: to donate and to whom anytime you like for the
Speaker 1: next indefinite period of time.
Speaker 5: Look, you're someone who is trying to make building wealth
Speaker 5: is technologically advanced and forward thinking as possible.
Speaker 4: You've already run businesses that have been at.
Speaker 5: The forefront of fintech, as you say, and just digital adoption.
Speaker 5: How do your consumers feel right now? How do you
Speaker 5: feel as a business leader about confidence in building within
Speaker 5: the US economy and whether or not it's fit for
Speaker 5: purpose for your particular business.
Speaker 1: I believe in the US economy, always have, always will.
Speaker 2: What's the big challenge?
Speaker 1: The big challenge, of course is tariffs, because most economists
Speaker 1: who look at that, as you well know, say this
Speaker 1: is likely to estab to accelerate inflation rates, and inflation
Speaker 1: rates do a whole lot, particularly from the point of
Speaker 1: view of then driving interest rates, which directly impacts any
Speaker 1: investor with significant assets.
Speaker 5: One for the customers you now have on one for
Speaker 5: many of you, that's watching Bill Harris, the CEO of
Speaker 5: Evergreen Wealth, but of course was helping need into It
Speaker 5: and PayPal previously.
Speaker 4: Now it's time for talking tech.
Speaker 5: First up, black Forest Labs, the German AI startup that
Speaker 5: helps elon Musk's Grock produce Images is in talks to
Speaker 5: Rais as much as two hundred million dollars for investors,
Speaker 5: which include hand recent Horowitz. All this less than just
Speaker 5: four months after it launched Plus delivery. Hero boosted the
Speaker 5: public listing size of Talabat, its Middle Eastern unit, to
Speaker 5: as much as two billion dollars. The deal is on
Speaker 5: track to be the United Arab Emirates' biggest listing of
Speaker 5: the year. And Apple is missing out on the big
Speaker 5: twenty twenty four smartphone market rebound. That's according to market
Speaker 5: track at IDC that actually says Apple barely manage growth
Speaker 5: even as global smartphone sales rebounds strongly after two years
Speaker 5: of decline. Still, Apple remains by far the profit leader
Speaker 5: over its Android rivals.
Speaker 4: Let's just dove.
Speaker 5: Tail into what's happening on the markets right now, because
Speaker 5: we have seen more broadly the NASDAC under precious and
Speaker 5: concerns about economic data being pretty strong.
Speaker 4: We also want to shine.
Speaker 5: Light one particular company that's been on the downside for
Speaker 5: the NASDACK as well. We're off by one point one
Speaker 5: percent on the NASAK one hundred in video is your
Speaker 5: biggest points contributed there? That drags us lower as we
Speaker 5: worry about inflatory pressure stopping the FED cutting as many
Speaker 5: as anticipated but symbotic.
Speaker 4: Look, here's another.
Speaker 5: Example of a company having issues with auditing and reporting,
Speaker 5: cutting its outlook going forward.
Speaker 4: Accounting errors is what.
Speaker 5: They're currently saying, and so they can't file their ten
Speaker 5: K on time. We're off by so you'll see forty
Speaker 5: percent over the last two training days. Now really worrying
Speaker 5: about the revenue forecast going forward. They're lowering the revenue
Speaker 5: expectations to four hundred and eighty to five hundred million dollars.
Speaker 5: What's interesting is this company when public VIA's back a
Speaker 5: soft Bank backed spack and indeed SoftBank's vision fund had
Speaker 5: moved had flipped this particular company of late.
Speaker 4: But we're looking more at soft Bank as well.
Speaker 5: The company is aiming to increase its stake in open Ai,
Speaker 5: for example, acquiring up to one point five billion dollars.
Speaker 4: In shares from the start up's employees.
Speaker 5: It's according to sources, mart Bergen joins us now mark
Speaker 5: Slapbank's always active. They're particularly active in the air of
Speaker 5: artificial intelligence. And how are they going to access this money?
Speaker 13: Yeah, this has actually been They've been relatively quiet after
Speaker 13: that big spurt we saw from like say twenty seven
Speaker 13: to twenty seventeen, twenty twenty one. They are now all
Speaker 13: in your Massa's son from our reporting, wanted to invest
Speaker 13: a lot more. In the most recent open Ai around,
Speaker 13: they were kind of limited to five hundred million. So
Speaker 13: now they've had this arrangement where they're able to do that.
Speaker 13: There's a secondary sales share share sale from open Ai
Speaker 13: employees that'll free up up to one point five billion
Speaker 13: and give you know, Masa his opportunity to get into
Speaker 13: this transformational company.
Speaker 5: He's already put some money to work in the recent round,
Speaker 5: but one and a half billion dollars that's a lot
Speaker 5: of employees selling thinking that they'll meet that mark.
Speaker 14: My expectation is.
Speaker 13: That open Ai probably did a lot of the math beforehand,
Speaker 13: and it's pretty confident to that. I mean, it'd be
Speaker 13: curious to see if some employees hold on to it
Speaker 13: expecting that there they'll be able to make more later on.
Speaker 13: This is something I believe san Altman has talked about,
Speaker 13: is doing these with regularity, something you know where we've
Speaker 13: seen companies like like Stripe Stripe that have stayed public
Speaker 13: for a very extendable amount of time. You know, don't
Speaker 13: expect Opening Eye to IPO next year, and so that
Speaker 13: that this is probably the best path for them to
Speaker 13: as far as an employee retention.
Speaker 4: Plan, Wel said Mark Bergen.
Speaker 5: Thank you on the latest when it comes to soft
Speaker 5: Bank and open AI, I mean, while coming up a
Speaker 5: little bit more in the venture space seven seven six
Speaker 5: Shooting for the Moon, the company's founding partner, Kaitlin Holloway
Speaker 5: joins us on their space investments.
Speaker 4: That's next. This has been big technology.
Speaker 5: Major companies like SpaceX and Blue Origin are helping usher
Speaker 5: in a new wave of mainstream space exploration. But they're
Speaker 5: not the only firms that are searching for answers in
Speaker 5: the sky. That's why seven seven six has already made
Speaker 5: investments in other space companies. Take Stoke, Internoon, Astrophoge. Let's
Speaker 5: talk through them with Caitlyn Holloway, founding partners seven seven six.
Speaker 5: And no, we're not just talking about reusable rockets, say
Speaker 5: we're talking about mining resources out in space or on asteroids.
Speaker 5: Even how do you get to visualize from a founder
Speaker 5: that they can build a totally new ecosystem that is such.
Speaker 14: A good question.
Speaker 15: And you know, I think that my background in building
Speaker 15: high growth companies for you know, the last almost nearly
Speaker 15: fifteen twenty years here has really helped me to better understand,
Speaker 15: despite not being a rocket scientist myself, what it really
Speaker 15: takes to build into the future and look to the
Speaker 15: stars and really see a future for humanity that most
Speaker 15: of us cannot. And so understanding what it takes to
Speaker 15: be a great founder, whether you're building you know, a
Speaker 15: chocolate bar or a reusable rocket, there are some pretty
Speaker 15: pretty standard things that make up founder fantastic.
Speaker 5: What makes the business opportunity or at least the valuation
Speaker 5: fantastic because you are taking such you know, biggest scale
Speaker 5: risk in a way of whether or not one can
Speaker 5: mine in space rather than build a chocolatepa here or
Speaker 5: notth right, Well.
Speaker 15: You know, I think that's something that's really interesting about
Speaker 15: the economy and the times that we're living in today.
Speaker 15: You know, even five years ago, I think that this
Speaker 15: was far too speculative for early stage companies, early stage
Speaker 15: VC firms to be investing in these companies at the
Speaker 15: earliest earliest stages. And so you know, with SpaceX and
Speaker 15: Blue Origin, who have been really charting the path from
Speaker 15: the private sector so publicly. It really has allowed us
Speaker 15: to better understand where the technology is today. And I
Speaker 15: think for so long, you know, the government, between NASA
Speaker 15: and then other scientists who really have been building behind
Speaker 15: that that cloak, behind the curtain, all of that technology
Speaker 15: is finally coming to the forefront. And so for us
Speaker 15: now that technology is table stakes. The infrastructure is here,
Speaker 15: and so to place a bet on the table with
Speaker 15: the expectation that we might see history be made and
Speaker 15: some returns come back within the next ten years is
Speaker 15: not unreasonable at all.
Speaker 5: In many ways, SpaceX has been sucking up all the
Speaker 5: oxygen in the room, and many anticipate that with Alan's
Speaker 5: very close relationship with the Trump administration that might be
Speaker 5: help from a regulatory perspective, but will help stoke as
Speaker 5: well as likes of SpaceX.
Speaker 14: Yeah.
Speaker 15: Well, you know, I think the beautiful thing about being
Speaker 15: a startup is that you are much more agile, you
Speaker 15: are much more nimble, and these founders are not scared
Speaker 15: of taking really big swings. That's the beauty of being
Speaker 15: an early stage founder. And it's the luxury, frankly, that
Speaker 15: SpaceX doesn't have anymore.
Speaker 14: And so while they have paved the way.
Speaker 15: For you know, all of the obvious reasons, but really
Speaker 15: it's the youngest companies that are building now that are
Speaker 15: going to take advantage of that technology and really buildings
Speaker 15: that Again. You know, when I look at the night
Speaker 15: sky with my little boys, it's going to look much
Speaker 15: different for them. And you know, whether that's astro Forge
Speaker 15: or Stoke or INNERLN, they're going to be the reason why.
Speaker 5: Is there as much committed capital to other areas. For example,
Speaker 5: I'm thinking about you deploy money across web three, across AI,
Speaker 5: across climate tech. In many ways, when you're looking at
Speaker 5: evaluation of an AI company versus a space one, how
Speaker 5: competitive is it now?
Speaker 14: You know, it's really interesting.
Speaker 15: Obviously, VC loves a good trend and a good hype cycle,
Speaker 15: but I really do think that while many vcs are
Speaker 15: looking to AI for the obvious reasons, they're also looking to.
Speaker 14: Deep tech in a way that they haven't before.
Speaker 15: And I think an interesting trend is that you're seeing
Speaker 15: young generalists funds really come in and sit side by
Speaker 15: side on cap tables with the expectation of some of
Speaker 15: these larger multi stage firms coming in and carrying them
Speaker 15: through to the finish line.
Speaker 14: But I really do think that this is the moment.
Speaker 15: And again, when you see a generalist start getting involved
Speaker 15: in deep tech, I think that that means that there's
Speaker 15: something more than a trend happening.
Speaker 5: What are you seeing in terms of future fundraising opportunities
Speaker 5: as to whether the companies that you give a seed
Speaker 5: or very early stage investment too being able to raise
Speaker 5: further rounds. You're managing to see the increase in the
Speaker 5: value of your fund that you've helped build.
Speaker 15: Absolutely, and I think that this is where the power
Speaker 15: of selection really comes into play. You know, my partner
Speaker 15: Alects of Sohanian has quite the track record himself, but
Speaker 15: really understanding again where that people component meets the product
Speaker 15: and so for us, you know, early stage investing, there
Speaker 15: is a power law at play, of course, but the
Speaker 15: expectation is that we will see these companies move on.
Speaker 15: If we're investing in the very best founders, we have
Speaker 15: no doubt that they're going to be able to pick
Speaker 15: up those later rounds and really really take.
Speaker 4: It all the way. Kaitlin Holloway, thanks for coming on.
Speaker 5: Keep coming back as someone as those portfolio companies do
Speaker 5: raise more rounds seven to seven six were appreciate it
Speaker 5: back Friday, And isn't just for clothing or electronics steals
Speaker 5: streaming services they're on sale too, and that could help
Speaker 5: customers in escape perhaps some recent increases in subscriptions.
Speaker 4: Bloombergs Hannah Miller is here with more.
Speaker 5: What's so interesting is you document basically all the deals
Speaker 5: that are available across the multitude of streamers we will
Speaker 5: have as as.
Speaker 4: Though the deals are on the ones where you get ads.
Speaker 16: Yes, most of these are for ADS supported versions of
Speaker 16: these streaming services, with an exception here or there, but yeah,
Speaker 16: if you want these deals, you're going to have to
Speaker 16: watch ads.
Speaker 5: And what are we finding these streaming companies are wanting
Speaker 5: to promote that element, this new area where they're able
Speaker 5: to make AD dollars as well.
Speaker 16: Yeah, I mean we've seen a lot of legacy media
Speaker 16: companies really zero in on streaming and kind of pull
Speaker 16: away from traditional cable. They want more subscribers to these
Speaker 16: streaming services, and this is a way to get people in.
Speaker 5: Looking at some of the story that you have and
Speaker 5: the discount prices, I mean, Hulu with ads is just
Speaker 5: ninety nine cents per month, down from nine to ninety
Speaker 5: nine per month, and we see the max two dollars
Speaker 5: ninety nine for example, and these have we seen this repeat?
Speaker 5: Is this something that they've drawn on in previous years.
Speaker 16: Yeah, Hulu's actually been a pioneer in having these Black
Speaker 16: Friday deals and we've seen other streamers upon the bandwagon.
Speaker 16: To keep in mind with these deals, a lot of
Speaker 16: them are short term. They're for a year at most,
Speaker 16: so you know, those savings only go so far.
Speaker 5: And how easy is then to exit it? Like how
Speaker 5: much are they under duress to make sure that everything's
Speaker 5: very transparent?
Speaker 16: You know, if you try to cancel, they'll often offer
Speaker 16: a little sweet nerd keep you back on board. So
Speaker 16: it's not the worst process in the world, but it
Speaker 16: can be a bit art to us.
Speaker 5: It's a great read if you want to be getting
Speaker 5: in on some of your Black Friday savings across streaming deals.
Speaker 4: We appreciate it.
Speaker 5: That's Hannah Miller on All Things Black Friday for streaming.
Speaker 5: Let's go from the small screen to the big screen now,
Speaker 5: because after the movie delays from last year's Hollywood strikes,
Speaker 5: movie theater hype is surging on the back of a
Speaker 5: few weecent blockbusters. Just take Wicked, for example, or Gladiator two,
Speaker 5: which have just brought in a combined on hundred and
Speaker 5: sixty eight million dollars in sales. That's across the US
Speaker 5: and Canadian theatres. In the past weekend alone, the domestic
Speaker 5: box office could reach up to three hundred and seventy
Speaker 5: million of a five day holiday period that's coming up.
Speaker 5: This is boy based on bluemeg Intelligence analysis of industry forecasts.
Speaker 5: The person who's been cracking those numbers is Kevin Near
Speaker 5: from Bloemmeg Intelligence. So is it it's this time of year,
Speaker 5: it's a consumer sentiment thing, or actually it's these particular
Speaker 5: movies that are drawing everyone in.
Speaker 17: I think it's both, Caroline.
Speaker 4: I think it's both.
Speaker 17: I think there's a great flux of just a perfect
Speaker 17: storm right now. I mean, these three films, they're getting
Speaker 17: a lot of buzz. They're being received very well by critics,
Speaker 17: by audiences, and that's after a few different misfires, right So,
Speaker 17: cinemas certainly aren't happy. The studios are certainly happy. As
Speaker 17: you just said, some of the more bullish estimates are
Speaker 17: putting the total hall for this five day period could
Speaker 17: be north of three hundred maybe three hundred and fifty
Speaker 17: million dollars.
Speaker 4: These are not.
Speaker 5: Cheap movies to have made though, so these ones needed
Speaker 5: to be bookbusters.
Speaker 17: Right correct, correct? Now by no stretch where they achieved
Speaker 17: films and then you act a factor in the marketing
Speaker 17: campaigns as well. We saw some incredible marketing spend for Wicked.
Speaker 17: I'm sure you saw ads everywhere.
Speaker 4: Solves everywhere, everything.
Speaker 17: Ever, everywhere, everywhere, So they got to see a return
Speaker 17: on that, and really that kicks off that of content value.
Speaker 17: Flywheel starts with the theater, right and then you see
Speaker 17: that carry on. We're just talking about streaming services, so
Speaker 17: really that that theatrical runway can really accelerate that that flywheel.
Speaker 5: My family a little bit too young for the Wicked
Speaker 5: side of things. Husband's already done Lady eight to two,
Speaker 5: but we are interested in Moana too. Now, how big
Speaker 5: a dealer is that could be for Disney and Disney
Speaker 5: streaming one of the how are they giving that to
Speaker 5: the public.
Speaker 17: Yeah, well we're starting to get a little bit of
Speaker 17: of numbers in Mowana two had a great preview last night,
Speaker 17: a record for a Walt Disney animated film, which is
Speaker 17: really nice to see. And I think it does complement
Speaker 17: the Wicked audience. As you said, you kind of are
Speaker 17: getting the female demographic, but you're getting different ages there.
Speaker 17: So really it's you know, looking great for cinemas and
Speaker 17: Disney specifically. You know, the studio has had such a
Speaker 17: wonderful bounce back this year after a few misfires in
Speaker 17: twenty twenty three. I mean they're only putting out a
Speaker 17: handful of blockbuster films, but inside out too, phenomenal of
Speaker 17: Deadpool and Wolverine really really impressive, and then Mowana and
Speaker 17: then they have a Lion King sequel coming out in December,
Speaker 17: so really great turnaround, and then hopefully that Moments of
Speaker 17: can continue next year.
Speaker 5: Much of this are sequels, yes, is that just the
Speaker 5: vibe and I no Wicked was kind of different, but
Speaker 5: certainly tried and test it on Broadway, right, I.
Speaker 17: Mean there's so much content out there. You got to
Speaker 17: understand the studios are leaning onto established ip right, something
Speaker 17: that's had successed in the past. So whether it's a
Speaker 17: brand or some sort of a sequel, as you said, yes,
Speaker 17: you're going to see a lot of that.
Speaker 2: They're trying to balance it out with the originals here
Speaker 2: and there.
Speaker 17: I mean, Amazon just had an original film called Red
Speaker 17: One that came out, so you are seeing a little
Speaker 17: bit of.
Speaker 2: Back and forth.
Speaker 17: But I do think Disney especially has said that they're
Speaker 17: going to lean into some of their established franchises.
Speaker 5: Interesting that Red One then also went to the theaters
Speaker 5: as well, having originally not been planned to Bloommeg Intelligence
Speaker 5: als Kevin Nick. It's a great weed and it's a
Speaker 5: fun one ahead of the holidays. Meanwhile, we want to
Speaker 5: keep an eye on what's happening as we hurtle towards
Speaker 5: a long weekend. And that's that one hundred currently off
Speaker 5: by one point three percent. We're currently seeing tugged lower
Speaker 5: by the likes of video and some of the key
Speaker 5: tech names where we're seeing a bit of profit taking.
Speaker 5: Not so for Bitcoin went back up at ninety five
Speaker 5: thousand Bitdell and crowdstrikes some of those earnings coming out
Speaker 5: and really putting paid to any optimism around a PC recovery,
Speaker 5: particularly for Dell and HP. We've got so much more
Speaker 5: to digest, But that does it for this edition of
Speaker 5: Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 4: Do not forget to check out our podcast.
Speaker 5: You can find it on the terminal as well as
Speaker 5: online on Apple Spotify, and iHeart Go have wonderful Thanksgivings days.
Speaker 4: Having the day off tomorrow, we tune in to Bloomberg
Speaker 4: on Friday. This is Bloomberg Technology