Speaker 1: It's Tuesday, July six. I'm oscar mirrors from the Daily
Speaker 1: Dive podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America.
Speaker 1: One of the bright spots that helped many restaurants and
Speaker 1: businesses make it through the pandemic was the ability to
Speaker 1: extend out on the sidewalks and streets. It helped them
Speaker 1: continue to do business while indoor activities were restricted, and
Speaker 1: in many areas these changes are being made permanent. But
Speaker 1: for disabled citizens, these changes can make sidewalks feel like
Speaker 1: obstacle courses. Calls are now being made for many equality
Speaker 1: impact assessments which notified business owners of reasonable adjustments that
Speaker 1: can be made to provide better accessibility. John Serrico, contributor
Speaker 1: to Bloomberg City Lab, joins us for how open streets
Speaker 1: impacted disabled users. Thanks for joining us, John, Thanks so
Speaker 1: much for having me. One of the things that happened
Speaker 1: throughout the pandemic in a lifeline really for a lot
Speaker 1: of restaurants is that cities allowed them to spill out
Speaker 1: into the sidewalks and even in the streets. This happened
Speaker 1: it was a wants to closing down of indoor dining,
Speaker 1: so they said, hey, you can move out into these
Speaker 1: other spaces. We'll let you do that. In a lot
Speaker 1: of cases. Now that we are kind of reopening from
Speaker 1: after the pandemic and all that, a lot of cities
Speaker 1: and states are making some of those changes permanent, allowing
Speaker 1: those you know, those restaurants to keep those spaces outside.
Speaker 1: A lot of them invested money in making these little
Speaker 1: outdoor dining areas. But one of the things and I
Speaker 1: enjoyed them very much myself. I I kind of applauded
Speaker 1: that they were able to extend those. But one of
Speaker 1: the things that that we're seeing now is that for
Speaker 1: our disabled Americans, this is actually posing a problem. For
Speaker 1: those on wheelchairs and others with a mobility impairments. It's, uh,
Speaker 1: it's hard to navigate those areas, and and reading through
Speaker 1: your piece, I started thinking even of myself on a
Speaker 1: busy street way right there. It is kind of difficult
Speaker 1: to navigate, even for for a normal person just to
Speaker 1: walk around. You have to make a left and a
Speaker 1: right and all this stuff. It can get pretty complicated.
Speaker 1: So John, tell us a little bit about what we're
Speaker 1: seeing with this. Sure, So you know, this story kind
Speaker 1: of came about where you know, I've ever been reporting
Speaker 1: on streets and accessibility for a couple of years now,
Speaker 1: whether it's in public transit or on streets themselves. And
Speaker 1: you know, I heard from advocates who had spoken to
Speaker 1: in the past who said, you know, these new parklet
Speaker 1: you know, outdoor COVID error parklets, outdoor dining, you know,
Speaker 1: we're seeing them used for retail now, we're seeing them
Speaker 1: mused for all sorts of different uses. That they came
Speaker 1: back out onto the streets because many disabled Americans were
Speaker 1: shielding during COVID due to underlying vulnerabilities, and when they
Speaker 1: came out to the streets, they found that they were
Speaker 1: completely reconfigured for this outdoor dining and they couldn't get
Speaker 1: by right. There's there's cluttered sidewalks, there's tables and you
Speaker 1: know chairs kind of going out into the public right
Speaker 1: of way. There's outdoor dining structures that you know are
Speaker 1: inaccessible because the tables are too tied and there's not
Speaker 1: a ramp to get over the curve. You know, you
Speaker 1: see all these sorts of problems arising from these issues,
Speaker 1: and they really just you know, we're calling for kind
Speaker 1: of a seat at the table and hoping that you know,
Speaker 1: if we were to make these structures permanent, which, as
Speaker 1: you mentioned of them, are going to be permanent, that
Speaker 1: the temporary problems don't become permanent. I think that's important there,
Speaker 1: that kind of piece you mentioned in the article that
Speaker 1: you grew up with a disabled parent, and there's this
Speaker 1: kind of a ritual that a lot of people go through.
Speaker 1: Actually when they're deciding, hey, we're actually gonna go out,
Speaker 1: We're gonna go somewhere. You gotta call ahead, see if
Speaker 1: there's a ramp. You gotta kind of uh see if
Speaker 1: all all the ducks are in a row, to see
Speaker 1: if the accessibility is there, and you spoke to you know,
Speaker 1: as as I mentioned, you went through it, you spoke
Speaker 1: to a lot of people. Just to get out for
Speaker 1: a normal course of business, you have to kind of
Speaker 1: take all these steps. Yeah. Absolutely, And I think that's
Speaker 1: that's really, you know, such a key part of understanding,
Speaker 1: you know, when you start to really see how cities
Speaker 1: are shaped for the abled user, right. And I think
Speaker 1: this is where this concept of the normative user comes up,
Speaker 1: which I mentioned the piece where unless you kind of
Speaker 1: have this experience like I had with a disabled mother,
Speaker 1: you know, or you have our friend who is disabled
Speaker 1: or you on yourself temporarily disabled because you you know,
Speaker 1: broke your leg or something like that. It's hard to
Speaker 1: kind of realize how inaccessible our streets really are and
Speaker 1: how this could affect other users. You know, for me
Speaker 1: growing up where we had to make those calls to
Speaker 1: restaurants and you know, like I said in the piece
Speaker 1: where you know, the list is pretty short for restaurants
Speaker 1: that can qualify often. But I think with these outdoor
Speaker 1: dining structures there's they pose both opportunities and pitfalls. And
Speaker 1: the opportunities being that you can actually add a lot
Speaker 1: of new space by going into parking spots. You can
Speaker 1: actually take some seats off the sidewalk and put them
Speaker 1: into these kind of designated places. You know. The pitfalls
Speaker 1: being what I mentioned before, where you have new tripping hazards,
Speaker 1: cluttered sidewalks, in accessible new spaces. Uh. You know, so
Speaker 1: they could they could help businesses, but they could also
Speaker 1: create a whole new set of problems, and I think
Speaker 1: that's where accessibility advocates wanted to make that very clear.
Speaker 1: You met with one of those advocates and organizers, if
Speaker 1: you could describe to me that kind of the walk
Speaker 1: you took throughout the streets you mentioned. Towards the end
Speaker 1: of it, she was panting after having to navigate all
Speaker 1: of basically like an obstacle course trying to get through
Speaker 1: the street. Yeah. So when I when I met with
Speaker 1: the man who's really such a great source on these
Speaker 1: on these topics, you know, she pointed out a restaurant
Speaker 1: that in midtown Manhattan where you know, they had both
Speaker 1: the outdoor dining structure in the parking spot, but also
Speaker 1: we're adding seats to the sidewalk, and she knows. She
Speaker 1: made a point that you know, in COVID, kind of
Speaker 1: all the public realm became this kind of free game um,
Speaker 1: and that's something that you know, these kind of temporary
Speaker 1: problems kind of became, you know, kind of this proform
Speaker 1: of policy in a way. So you know, we were
Speaker 1: talking about that, and as we kept going along, you
Speaker 1: saw all these kind of iglues taking up the public sidewalk,
Speaker 1: these kind of little cottages that were built. Some of
Speaker 1: them weren't in the parking spots, they were actually on
Speaker 1: the sidewalk. And for someone like me who has to
Speaker 1: to able legs and can get through those kind of
Speaker 1: tight spaces and can maneuver. It's a bit different for
Speaker 1: someone for a wheelchair user like you mont or someone
Speaker 1: using a walker where they can't it's really hard to
Speaker 1: get at wheelchair through those type spaces. They can't go
Speaker 1: onto the street just as easily as enabled body person
Speaker 1: can just kind of get around these spaces. So by
Speaker 1: the time we walked about two or three blocks, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was quite exhausting for her, and it was something
Speaker 1: that was so eye opening to see how, you know,
Speaker 1: just how cluttered the sidewalks have gotten during this phase.
Speaker 1: You know, even though she admits she's she's a fan
Speaker 1: of them, she just wants them to be to be
Speaker 1: better improved. And so what are the next steps for this? Obviously,
Speaker 1: raising awareness is one. Uh, I think there was recommendations
Speaker 1: maybe to say, if you're gonna open these open the
Speaker 1: streets and the sidewalks of this, you know, make sure,
Speaker 1: uh you know, you have a little like a mini
Speaker 1: report or something so that you know that there's accessibility
Speaker 1: requirements or rank structures based on their accessibility, just just
Speaker 1: to make sure that we're we're looking out for for
Speaker 1: these disabled citizens as well. Yeah, So I would say
Speaker 1: there was three main kind of takeaways and solutions that
Speaker 1: came from the piece, uh, And I think a lot
Speaker 1: of this has to do that we're now entering the
Speaker 1: second kind of iteration of them. You know, you mentioned
Speaker 1: you're a fan. I'm a fan of EIDN outdoor dining
Speaker 1: structures all the time. Now we've got to figure out
Speaker 1: how we're gonna make these permanent and they are going
Speaker 1: to exist on the streets. So we were in this
Speaker 1: kind of we're beyond the pilot phase, right, And I
Speaker 1: would say the three solutions that kind of came up,
Speaker 1: the first being what it mon told me, which is
Speaker 1: we need to re analyze the streets. If we're on
Speaker 1: a really busy corridor, you know, maybe we should start
Speaker 1: thinking about expanding the sidewalk. If we're gonna add all
Speaker 1: these new things to the streetscape and the future city
Speaker 1: street you know does include outdoor dining, which I think
Speaker 1: it should. Can we start to rethink the sidewalk in
Speaker 1: the space that we're giving to residents, maybe we should
Speaker 1: expand a bit. So that's the first one. The second
Speaker 1: I would say is just education, education. Education. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, again, it shouldn't take myself, who had a
Speaker 1: disabled mom, to just know about these things or think
Speaker 1: about them. We really need to get the public to
Speaker 1: have a change of behavior, as Susan Duha mentioned to
Speaker 1: me in the in the Peace, where we educate the masses,
Speaker 1: so when they do act, when restaurant owners do put
Speaker 1: the space out, they do feel that it's wrong. It's
Speaker 1: not it's incorrect. And also are aware of the huge
Speaker 1: economic loss, which was a key point to me that
Speaker 1: you know in the UK they called the purple pound.
Speaker 1: You know, these millions of dollars that are lost by
Speaker 1: businesses when I disable to use your decide to go
Speaker 1: somewhere else and not shop at your business because you
Speaker 1: decided to or you were unable to provide accessibility. I
Speaker 1: think that's the best way of putting it. So education
Speaker 1: every step of the way, every time the city talks
Speaker 1: to a business owner, educating them, here's the proper way
Speaker 1: to do it. Here's the potential business you could lose,
Speaker 1: you know, really having that education piece. And I would
Speaker 1: say the last one is just including accessibility advocates, which
Speaker 1: to me is the kind of most implant, the simplest one, right.
Speaker 1: You know, when you're doing these permits, have accessibility advocates,
Speaker 1: they're looking them over making sure they do work for everyone,
Speaker 1: and hiring more accessibility officers in you know, departments of transportation,
Speaker 1: who are mostly in most cities, they're the departments that
Speaker 1: are taking care of this. Uh And and also and
Speaker 1: I thought this was a great idea, you know, sending
Speaker 1: those with disabilities out to these outdoor dining structures kind
Speaker 1: of as like a side evaluation. Not to penalize businesses.
Speaker 1: I think so key. You know that Alan Bens and
Speaker 1: some other advocates told me where they're not looking to
Speaker 1: penalize businesses and giving them another fine. It's how can
Speaker 1: we work How can we work together collaboratively. If we
Speaker 1: decide these are going to be permanent, how can we
Speaker 1: make them really work for everyone? I think a key
Speaker 1: part of that is just having these successibility advocates at
Speaker 1: the table to really decide to really see that vision through.
Speaker 1: So that's I think going forward with cities will really
Speaker 1: have to look forward to in the coming months. John Serco,
Speaker 1: contributor to Bloomberg City Lab. Thank you very much for
Speaker 1: joining us. Thanks so much for having me. Hi'm Oscar Romiris,
Speaker 1: and this has been reopening America. Don't forget that. For
Speaker 1: today's big news, stories. You can check me out on
Speaker 1: the Daily Dive podcast every Monday through Fridays, so follow
Speaker 1: us on I Heart Radio or wherever you get your podcasts.