WEBVTT - How Opening Sidewalks to Businesses During the Pandemic Shut Things Down for Disabled Users 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.920 It's Tuesday, July six. I'm oscar mirrors from the Daily 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:07.200 Dive podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America. 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:10.559 One of the bright spots that helped many restaurants and 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:13.240 businesses make it through the pandemic was the ability to 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:16.320 extend out on the sidewalks and streets. It helped them 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:19.680 continue to do business while indoor activities were restricted, and 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:23.119 in many areas these changes are being made permanent. But 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:26.439 for disabled citizens, these changes can make sidewalks feel like 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:30.200 obstacle courses. Calls are now being made for many equality 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:34.199 impact assessments which notified business owners of reasonable adjustments that 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:39.640 can be made to provide better accessibility. John Serrico, contributor 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:43.040 to Bloomberg City Lab, joins us for how open streets 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:47.040 impacted disabled users. Thanks for joining us, John, Thanks so 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:49.600 much for having me. One of the things that happened 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:52.199 throughout the pandemic in a lifeline really for a lot 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:56.160 of restaurants is that cities allowed them to spill out 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:59.040 into the sidewalks and even in the streets. This happened 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:02.760 it was a wants to closing down of indoor dining, 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:04.560 so they said, hey, you can move out into these 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:06.920 other spaces. We'll let you do that. In a lot 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:10.080 of cases. Now that we are kind of reopening from 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:12.880 after the pandemic and all that, a lot of cities 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:15.400 and states are making some of those changes permanent, allowing 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:18.200 those you know, those restaurants to keep those spaces outside. 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:21.240 A lot of them invested money in making these little 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:24.800 outdoor dining areas. But one of the things and I 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:27.880 enjoyed them very much myself. I I kind of applauded 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:30.040 that they were able to extend those. But one of 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:32.440 the things that that we're seeing now is that for 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:37.640 our disabled Americans, this is actually posing a problem. For 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:41.920 those on wheelchairs and others with a mobility impairments. It's, uh, 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:44.759 it's hard to navigate those areas, and and reading through 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:47.880 your piece, I started thinking even of myself on a 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:50.760 busy street way right there. It is kind of difficult 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:53.360 to navigate, even for for a normal person just to 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:55.080 walk around. You have to make a left and a 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:57.880 right and all this stuff. It can get pretty complicated. 0:01:57.920 --> 0:01:59.960 So John, tell us a little bit about what we're 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:03.480 seeing with this. Sure, So you know, this story kind 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:06.120 of came about where you know, I've ever been reporting 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:08.320 on streets and accessibility for a couple of years now, 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:11.639 whether it's in public transit or on streets themselves. And 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:14.000 you know, I heard from advocates who had spoken to 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:16.440 in the past who said, you know, these new parklet 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:20.520 you know, outdoor COVID error parklets, outdoor dining, you know, 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:23.760 we're seeing them used for retail now, we're seeing them 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:26.079 mused for all sorts of different uses. That they came 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:29.160 back out onto the streets because many disabled Americans were 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:32.680 shielding during COVID due to underlying vulnerabilities, and when they 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:34.320 came out to the streets, they found that they were 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:38.399 completely reconfigured for this outdoor dining and they couldn't get 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:42.320 by right. There's there's cluttered sidewalks, there's tables and you 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:44.799 know chairs kind of going out into the public right 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:48.359 of way. There's outdoor dining structures that you know are 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:50.920 inaccessible because the tables are too tied and there's not 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:53.000 a ramp to get over the curve. You know, you 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:55.760 see all these sorts of problems arising from these issues, 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:58.280 and they really just you know, we're calling for kind 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:00.920 of a seat at the table and hoping that you know, 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:03.480 if we were to make these structures permanent, which, as 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:05.680 you mentioned of them, are going to be permanent, that 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:09.680 the temporary problems don't become permanent. I think that's important there, 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:12.240 that kind of piece you mentioned in the article that 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:15.480 you grew up with a disabled parent, and there's this 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:18.000 kind of a ritual that a lot of people go through. 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:21.640 Actually when they're deciding, hey, we're actually gonna go out, 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:24.600 We're gonna go somewhere. You gotta call ahead, see if 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:27.120 there's a ramp. You gotta kind of uh see if 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:29.119 all all the ducks are in a row, to see 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:32.560 if the accessibility is there, and you spoke to you know, 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:34.280 as as I mentioned, you went through it, you spoke 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:36.240 to a lot of people. Just to get out for 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:38.320 a normal course of business, you have to kind of 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:41.760 take all these steps. Yeah. Absolutely, And I think that's 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:44.520 that's really, you know, such a key part of understanding, 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:46.600 you know, when you start to really see how cities 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.640 are shaped for the abled user, right. And I think 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:52.040 this is where this concept of the normative user comes up, 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:54.680 which I mentioned the piece where unless you kind of 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:57.400 have this experience like I had with a disabled mother, 0:03:57.800 --> 0:03:59.560 you know, or you have our friend who is disabled 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:02.080 or you on yourself temporarily disabled because you you know, 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:05.200 broke your leg or something like that. It's hard to 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:08.480 kind of realize how inaccessible our streets really are and 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:11.160 how this could affect other users. You know, for me 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:13.120 growing up where we had to make those calls to 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:15.760 restaurants and you know, like I said in the piece 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:18.719 where you know, the list is pretty short for restaurants 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:21.320 that can qualify often. But I think with these outdoor 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:25.680 dining structures there's they pose both opportunities and pitfalls. And 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:28.120 the opportunities being that you can actually add a lot 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:30.560 of new space by going into parking spots. You can 0:04:30.560 --> 0:04:32.520 actually take some seats off the sidewalk and put them 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:35.279 into these kind of designated places. You know. The pitfalls 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:37.960 being what I mentioned before, where you have new tripping hazards, 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:42.359 cluttered sidewalks, in accessible new spaces. Uh. You know, so 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:44.280 they could they could help businesses, but they could also 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:46.000 create a whole new set of problems, and I think 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:49.320 that's where accessibility advocates wanted to make that very clear. 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:52.400 You met with one of those advocates and organizers, if 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:54.360 you could describe to me that kind of the walk 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:57.240 you took throughout the streets you mentioned. Towards the end 0:04:57.240 --> 0:04:59.800 of it, she was panting after having to navigate all 0:04:59.839 --> 0:05:02.360 of basically like an obstacle course trying to get through 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:04.839 the street. Yeah. So when I when I met with 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:07.600 the man who's really such a great source on these 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:10.800 on these topics, you know, she pointed out a restaurant 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:13.599 that in midtown Manhattan where you know, they had both 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:16.080 the outdoor dining structure in the parking spot, but also 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:18.240 we're adding seats to the sidewalk, and she knows. She 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:20.920 made a point that you know, in COVID, kind of 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:23.840 all the public realm became this kind of free game um, 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:27.480 and that's something that you know, these kind of temporary 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:31.040 problems kind of became, you know, kind of this proform 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:33.080 of policy in a way. So you know, we were 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:35.640 talking about that, and as we kept going along, you 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:38.960 saw all these kind of iglues taking up the public sidewalk, 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:41.520 these kind of little cottages that were built. Some of 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:43.440 them weren't in the parking spots, they were actually on 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:46.120 the sidewalk. And for someone like me who has to 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:48.120 to able legs and can get through those kind of 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:50.800 tight spaces and can maneuver. It's a bit different for 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:52.960 someone for a wheelchair user like you mont or someone 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:55.960 using a walker where they can't it's really hard to 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:58.240 get at wheelchair through those type spaces. They can't go 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:01.040 onto the street just as easily as enabled body person 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:03.560 can just kind of get around these spaces. So by 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:06.080 the time we walked about two or three blocks, Yeah, 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:08.200 it was quite exhausting for her, and it was something 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:11.160 that was so eye opening to see how, you know, 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:15.240 just how cluttered the sidewalks have gotten during this phase. 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:17.280 You know, even though she admits she's she's a fan 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:19.000 of them, she just wants them to be to be 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:22.960 better improved. And so what are the next steps for this? Obviously, 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:26.240 raising awareness is one. Uh, I think there was recommendations 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:29.159 maybe to say, if you're gonna open these open the 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:31.799 streets and the sidewalks of this, you know, make sure, 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:34.560 uh you know, you have a little like a mini 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:37.880 report or something so that you know that there's accessibility 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:41.800 requirements or rank structures based on their accessibility, just just 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:44.279 to make sure that we're we're looking out for for 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:47.480 these disabled citizens as well. Yeah, So I would say 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:50.039 there was three main kind of takeaways and solutions that 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:52.080 came from the piece, uh, And I think a lot 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:53.680 of this has to do that we're now entering the 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:55.880 second kind of iteration of them. You know, you mentioned 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:57.640 you're a fan. I'm a fan of EIDN outdoor dining 0:06:57.640 --> 0:06:59.839 structures all the time. Now we've got to figure out 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:01.719 how we're gonna make these permanent and they are going 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:03.240 to exist on the streets. So we were in this 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:06.040 kind of we're beyond the pilot phase, right, And I 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:07.960 would say the three solutions that kind of came up, 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:10.240 the first being what it mon told me, which is 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:12.000 we need to re analyze the streets. If we're on 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:14.560 a really busy corridor, you know, maybe we should start 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:17.000 thinking about expanding the sidewalk. If we're gonna add all 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:19.840 these new things to the streetscape and the future city 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:22.440 street you know does include outdoor dining, which I think 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:24.960 it should. Can we start to rethink the sidewalk in 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:27.000 the space that we're giving to residents, maybe we should 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:29.480 expand a bit. So that's the first one. The second 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:32.640 I would say is just education, education. Education. I mean, 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:35.640 you know, again, it shouldn't take myself, who had a 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:37.720 disabled mom, to just know about these things or think 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:39.720 about them. We really need to get the public to 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:42.320 have a change of behavior, as Susan Duha mentioned to 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:45.360 me in the in the Peace, where we educate the masses, 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:47.320 so when they do act, when restaurant owners do put 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:49.720 the space out, they do feel that it's wrong. It's 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:53.239 not it's incorrect. And also are aware of the huge 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:55.560 economic loss, which was a key point to me that 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:57.920 you know in the UK they called the purple pound. 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:00.760 You know, these millions of dollars that are lost by 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:03.360 businesses when I disable to use your decide to go 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:05.360 somewhere else and not shop at your business because you 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:08.280 decided to or you were unable to provide accessibility. I 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:10.800 think that's the best way of putting it. So education 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:12.720 every step of the way, every time the city talks 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:15.280 to a business owner, educating them, here's the proper way 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:18.280 to do it. Here's the potential business you could lose, 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:20.880 you know, really having that education piece. And I would 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:24.200 say the last one is just including accessibility advocates, which 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:27.200 to me is the kind of most implant, the simplest one, right. 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:30.360 You know, when you're doing these permits, have accessibility advocates, 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:32.800 they're looking them over making sure they do work for everyone, 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:37.240 and hiring more accessibility officers in you know, departments of transportation, 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:39.800 who are mostly in most cities, they're the departments that 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:42.600 are taking care of this. Uh And and also and 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:45.600 I thought this was a great idea, you know, sending 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:48.959 those with disabilities out to these outdoor dining structures kind 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:52.440 of as like a side evaluation. Not to penalize businesses. 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:55.160 I think so key. You know that Alan Bens and 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:57.040 some other advocates told me where they're not looking to 0:08:57.080 --> 0:09:00.319 penalize businesses and giving them another fine. It's how can 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:02.720 we work How can we work together collaboratively. If we 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:04.840 decide these are going to be permanent, how can we 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:06.720 make them really work for everyone? I think a key 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:09.280 part of that is just having these successibility advocates at 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:12.480 the table to really decide to really see that vision through. 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:15.160 So that's I think going forward with cities will really 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:19.120 have to look forward to in the coming months. John Serco, 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:22.000 contributor to Bloomberg City Lab. Thank you very much for 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:27.440 joining us. Thanks so much for having me. Hi'm Oscar Romiris, 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:30.439 and this has been reopening America. Don't forget that. For 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:32.319 today's big news, stories. You can check me out on 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:35.560 the Daily Dive podcast every Monday through Fridays, so follow 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:38.520 us on I Heart Radio or wherever you get your podcasts.