1 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Have you ever had that 2 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: dream that many of us do, where you find out 3 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: at the end of the quarter or semester that you've 4 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 1: been actually signed up for a class and you didn't 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: know about it and it's time for the exam. Similar 6 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: dreams happen all the time. Can you imagine this nightmare 7 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: that you have two children out there somewhere and you 8 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 1: don't know anything about it? Take a listen to our 9 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 1: friends at WPDE Speaking to Chris Metician. Chris Metician says 10 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: he thought he'd spend the rest of his life with 11 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: a listen Dave All. In fact, Dave All and her 12 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: two kids lived with him. They lived together for nearly 13 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: two years, and he tells us he never could have 14 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:05,680 Speaker 1: expected this. That one day changed my entire life, a 15 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: life Chris Matitian thought would forever involve thirty year old 16 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: Alissa Dave Vault. But December eleventh, police knocked on the door. 17 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: One of the detectives pulled him aside. He was just like, 18 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: just you gotta keep your coal. You know, I'm gonna 19 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 1: tell you some news. It's going to be a little 20 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,479 Speaker 1: a little shocking. They told him his girlfriend of nearly 21 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: two years through her newborn baby in the trash container 22 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: outside their home, and a year earlier, police say she 23 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 1: threw another baby into a Cherry Grove dumpster. That doesn't 24 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: make sense, you know, Mike, what's your evidence? You know? 25 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,479 Speaker 1: And then he told me, ay, she confessed, and then 26 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: I found out that there as there was a baby 27 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: in that garbage can right there. I can't even take 28 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: it in. The man is looking at a garbage can 29 00:01:53,440 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: and finding out his baby had been in that garbage can. 30 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: Take listen to more of what he Chrisma Titian tells 31 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: Aaron Edwards, when they told me that they found the 32 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: baby boy on our property and then the garbage can. 33 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: And then the hardest part is thinking about that baby 34 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: girl that no one knew of. I go over to 35 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 1: Cherry Grove Commons right every day and I drop a 36 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,639 Speaker 1: flower right in front of the dumpster. I mean, it's 37 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 1: just so messed up. It's so messed up. A Titian 38 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: knew it was too late to give a burial for 39 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: the baby girl born in November twenty seventeen. Then now 40 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: my baby girl is sitting who knows where, I mean, 41 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 1: in the landfill, like next to garbage and trash. It's 42 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: just the worst, clearly in the world. He hoped he 43 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: would get to give his son a proper burial, but 44 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: he says Devil's family members didn't include him in the 45 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:58,239 Speaker 1: memorial they already had. I wasn't invited to it. So 46 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: that hurts, not being able to see my baby boy 47 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: and his ashes get spread. I think it hurts. You're 48 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 1: hearing a heartbroken dad, Chris Matician father. I'm not one, 49 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: but two children, a boy and a girl, both dead, 50 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: both thrown away like trash, thrown away in the trash. 51 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us here 52 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: at Fox Nation and Serious XM one eleven. There have 53 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: been times I've spoken to a jury and it took 54 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: every ounce of energy. I had to keep a straight face, 55 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: but the jury had to know the truth and could 56 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: not be turned away from the evidence, as harsh as 57 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: it can be. Sometimes. Why because we have to keep 58 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: our eye on the prize, and that prize is justice. 59 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: Justice for these two babies who suffered such a horrible 60 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: death and disposal, not a burial, a disposal with me 61 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: an all star panel to try to make sense of 62 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: what we know has happened. Ashley Wilcot, judge, trial lawyer, 63 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: anchor at Court TV at Ashley Wilcott dot com. Renowned 64 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 1: New York psychologist Karen Stark joining us from Manhattan. She 65 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: is at Karen with a see Karen Stark dot com. 66 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University. Author of Blood Beneath My 67 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: Feet on Amazon and Starve a brand new series, Poisonous 68 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: Liaisons on the True Crime Network. Joseph Scott Morgan Levi Page, 69 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 1: Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter. First to you, levi Page, 70 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 1: Where is this happening? This is in North Mortal Beach, 71 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: South Carolina. And isn't it true? The mom of the 72 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:03,679 Speaker 1: two children now found dead and disposed of thrown away 73 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: like trash. She's beautiful in fact, isn't she a famous 74 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: makeup artist? Yes, you're correct, And not only that, she's 75 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: a mother of two children, ages six and eight years old, 76 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: two living children in addition to the other two children. 77 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 1: So she's got a six year old little girl an 78 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: eight year old little girl, and they all lived together 79 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: with the bio dad of the dead children, Chris Matician, 80 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: and they've been living together for years. What he didn't 81 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: know she was pregnant. He did not know she was pregnant. 82 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 1: He said that because he snored a lot, it was 83 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 1: very loud. That they slept in separate bedrooms, and she 84 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: was able to conceal her pregnancy as well. Okay, just 85 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: so you leave I page. No, I know you're you're 86 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 1: not married, you don't have any children that I know of. 87 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: You don't just show your pregnant when you sleep. Okay. 88 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, listen to what the boyfriend said. 89 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: When I first noticed she was gaining a little weight, 90 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 1: it was actually we went on a trip to Asheville, 91 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: North Carolina, just to see them, see the trees changing 92 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: color and stuff like that. We went through and fall. 93 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: So it was November twenty seventeen. That's when she had 94 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 1: my baby girl. Actually that that month. But at the 95 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,359 Speaker 1: beginning of the month we went to like I said, Asheville. 96 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I loved the lista. So it was like, Okay, 97 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: she didn't put on a few pounds, that's whatever, no 98 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 1: big deal. You know you don't. It's not something you 99 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: want to say, Hey, why are you gaining weight? You know? 100 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: So I never I never really did. And as a 101 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: matter of fact, the longtime lover Chrismatician isn't the only 102 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 1: one who noticed an unusual weight gain. Listen again, Her 103 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: mother actually said to her that she asked her if 104 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: she was pregnant, and then the Lissa came to me 105 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 1: and was like, I can't believe my mom disasked me 106 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: if I was pregnant. When her mom brought up that, 107 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: of course, her mom's very blunt, but she brought up 108 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,840 Speaker 1: to a list of that she was gaining weight and 109 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: she asked her. She straight up after, while we're on 110 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: vacation if who she was pregnant? And then Alyssa came 111 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: to me and started crying and she was like, oh 112 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: my god, am I gaining that much weight? Since then, 113 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: I never really brought up the weight factor, but I 114 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: did notice it. You know, I definitely did notice it. 115 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: So that's a big no no. Karen, start, you never 116 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: should bring up what people have gained weight or have 117 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: lost a lot of weight. Well, that's true. Women don't, 118 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: especially women get very upset even if they asked you 119 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: if it looks like I'm gaining weight, you don't want 120 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: to say yet it looks like you're gaining weight. However, 121 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: it's very hard Nancy, caring me to imagine, even if 122 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: they were sleeping in separate rooms, obviously they will created children. 123 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: They were having sex that he didn't begin to notice 124 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: that she wasn't just gaining weight, but it was in 125 00:07:54,080 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: a particular place and she looked pregnant, So yes, striking 126 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: to me, what do you think about it? Well, on 127 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: the other hand, though, Karen, start remember remember when I 128 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: was pregnant with the twins, I managed to hide my 129 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: pregnancy for I guess what was it, Karen? Because you 130 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: were with me and you knew over four months. Absolutely 131 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: you did, Nancy. But how about with David. Well, I 132 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: mean he knew the whole time, so I wasn't keeping 133 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: it a secret from him. On the other hand, remember 134 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: she was desperately trying to conceal the pregnancy, so who 135 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: knows what she was doing to hide it? But how 136 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: can you go through all that and even a doctor 137 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: doesn't find out? Take a listen to Dave Matt crime 138 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: online dot com makeup artist Elsa Dave Vault lives with 139 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: her boyfriend, Christma Teaching, and her two daughters from a 140 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: previous relationship. In December, heavy vaginal bleeding not related to 141 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 1: her minstrel cycle has the thirty two year old heading 142 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 1: to an emergency room. Dave Ald is bleeding so badly 143 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: that she needs and receives a blood transfusion. Doctors at 144 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 1: the Grand Strand Regional Medical Center in South Carolina, trying 145 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: to diagnose the cause of the bleeding, perform an ultrasound 146 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: and make a stunning discovery an undelivered placenta in her uterus, 147 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: But no baby whoa Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Crime 148 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about a guy 149 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: who learns that he has two children he never knew about, 150 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: that they're dead, and that they've been thrown away like trash. 151 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: But how did the mom manage to cover up the pregnancies, 152 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: affect two deaths and dispose of the bodies? How does 153 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: that happen? We learned she goes to the hospital with heavy, 154 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: heavy bleeding. Listen to what the doctors say. Here's Dave Matt. 155 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: Crime online 's determined that elicit Dave Alt's bleeding is 156 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 1: a result of a tear caused by labor that has 157 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: become infected. Under a doctor's care, Dave All delivers a 158 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:11,239 Speaker 1: placenta and umbilical cord consistent with a full term pregnancy, 159 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:14,439 Speaker 1: but there's no child. Dave Aald explains it away as 160 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: being from her other children that she would have known 161 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: if she was pregnant. Dave Alt's boyfriend and mother are 162 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: asked about her pregnancy and both say they were unaware 163 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: if dave All was pregnant. The hospital contacts police and 164 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: dave All is discharged from the hospital. Okay, I'm just 165 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: a JD. You're the death investigator, Joseph Scott Morgan. What 166 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: is happening? I mean, how could she have this heavy, 167 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: heavy bleeding? They say it was caused by a tear 168 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: that developed during labor, has become infected and they deliver 169 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: a placenta and an umbilical cord. Yeah, so we know, 170 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: you know, if there's infection that is set in Nancy, 171 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: we know that there's some tom that has elapsed here, 172 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: and you know, just to get folks a kind of 173 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 1: a brief run through that have never been prey present 174 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: for pregnancy and a delivery, you know, listen, there's there's 175 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: literally an decision that has made sometimes to accommodate a 176 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: baby being delivered. It's called an episiotomy. And if that's 177 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: not done, then you can get this ripping effect. And 178 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 1: not only that, you know, people think that, well, when 179 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:23,079 Speaker 1: a baby is born, the mom is told okay, honey, push, push, push, 180 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: and well not you know, following the birth of a child, 181 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: women also have to continue to push to get the 182 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 1: placenta out and the rest of the umbilical cord. And 183 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:37,599 Speaker 1: if this doesn't happen, this can lead to onset of septicemia, 184 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: which is a system wide shut down in infection. And 185 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: she's walking around with this within her nancy and no 186 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 1: one is any the wiser. I would have to think 187 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 1: if she had this bleeding, she's also going to have 188 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: maybe some kind of associated fever as well. She would 189 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: not have been in good shape. How do you as 190 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: a doctor and you examine a woman. There's placenta, there's 191 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 1: unbilical cord, but there's no baby. I mean you kind 192 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 1: of bury the lead there, Joe Scott Morgan, where's the baby? Yeah? Yeah, 193 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: Where where is the baby? And that's the big question 194 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 1: that the doctors need to be asking at this moment, Tom, 195 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: and literally in their face, in this woman's face at 196 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: this moment, Tom, because what they're looking at, where is 197 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: this baby that you're not providing care for that. No 198 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 1: one is providing care for You're not going to tell 199 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: us that this placenta and the umbilical cord is left 200 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: behind from some pregnancy that occurred years and years ago, 201 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 1: because that's what's actually being implied here. That's not going 202 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: to happen. You'd have horrible necrosis rotting. That's she'd be 203 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: dead by Now that's the problem here, because now we've 204 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: got an emergency on our hands. It's not just her bleeding. 205 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,319 Speaker 1: There's a baby out there somewhere. Where the hell is 206 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: the baby? We've got to provide care for the baby? 207 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: And what is it? The boyfriend flash, you know, living boyfriend, husband, 208 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: whatever he is, and mama, why don't they know the 209 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: status of this? You know, it leaves me scratching my head. Well, 210 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: hold on, I think I need a shrink for that. 211 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: But have you learned in your practice, actually, Wilcott judge, trial, lawyer, 212 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: court TV anchor. People see what they want to see, 213 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: and they don't see what they don't want to see. 214 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, let's just break it down to 215 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: something less disturbing, something we can wrap our head around. 216 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: For instance, women think the husband or vice versus having 217 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: an affair, but they don't want to know that, so 218 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: they don't investigate. I don't mean hire a private eye. 219 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 1: I mean, for Pete's sake, look at the cell phone. 220 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: Do something you don't want to know, so you don't look. 221 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,959 Speaker 1: You're blinded. You've got all blinders. What about that asked you? 222 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: WoT they didn't want to know that? It's like you 223 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: read my mind, because that's exactly what I was thinking 224 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: of in all the situations where women don't want to 225 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 1: believe their husband's cheating or vice versa, and it's denial 226 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:59,439 Speaker 1: and they just don't want to think about it. And 227 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: so I do think there had to be some of 228 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 1: that here. Now, remember a couple of things. Number One, 229 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: I'm going to assume that this woman is exceedingly convincing. 230 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 1: Oh wait a minute, I've got to tell you somethink 231 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:14,599 Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcott. Yeah, you know, traditionally I have the skeleton 232 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: life size on top of the car or Halloween season. Yeah, okay, 233 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: So the other day, David said he was gonna have 234 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: wings and a salad with one of his friends he 235 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: used to work with when he was a CPA, And 236 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 1: he said it at the last minute. So I was 237 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: picking up the twins late from school because he had 238 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: some kind of sports event, and I thought, you know what, 239 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: David never does anything wrong, much to my chagrin Nick 240 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: on Fakewood, but I was thinking, Ashley, you know I 241 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: would tell any other woman, you don't leave got blinders on. Investigate. 242 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: So I'm like, okay, you know what, I'm going to 243 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: go investigate. Sure enough, there I am with the beat 244 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: up in minivan with a skeleton on top. I drive 245 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: through the restaurant where he's supposed to be sitting outside 246 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: having wings, and guess what, I caught him being good again. 247 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: There he was having wings with the guy he used 248 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: to work with, and they see me driving by with 249 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: the twins in the car with the skeleton on top, 250 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: with the minivan, and it was one of those parking 251 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: lots you have to kind of like stop before you 252 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: get Yeah. Anyway, I'm not living with blind zoon, but 253 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: I can tell you it always doesn't turn out the 254 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: way you think it will. Well, okay, by David. You 255 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: know I love that, David, and that's why listen. But 256 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: the reality is, you know, unfortunately for this man, not 257 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: all all men, not all people, but really not all 258 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: men are comfortable talking about women's reproductive systems and bleeding 259 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: and all of the things that come along with it. 260 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: So I think some of them are like, oh, okay, 261 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: don't just kind of go take care of that and 262 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: whatever you need you let me know. On the other hand, 263 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: there's some denial going on. But I'm a gonna assume 264 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: that this woman is exceedingly a maniulative convincing us whatever 265 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: word you want, that she was able to convince not 266 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: only him, but her own mother, her own family, and 267 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: doctors that she hadn't been pregnant or wasn't pregnant. There 268 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: is a lot more going on here with what's wrong 269 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 1: with her. You're absolutely right. I mean, we hear about 270 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: scams every day and we think, why didn't they figure 271 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: it out? What are they crazy? Stupid? They're not. They're 272 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: people just like us that can't see what's right in 273 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 1: front of them. Take listen to more of Chris Matitian. 274 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: I definitely did notice she was wearing bag ear clothes. 275 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: She would wear my clothes, my shirt, you know, like 276 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: walking around the house, where she would never really do that, 277 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: you know, she would just wear her own stuff. But yeah, 278 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: the last and you gotta figure I was dating her 279 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: for twenty four months and she was pregnant out of 280 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: these eighteen months, so it's like her a little bigger, 281 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: was kind of kind of normal, you know, And it's 282 00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: like I did again. I didn't I don't care. I 283 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: didn't care about that. I loved her the whole situation 284 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:04,880 Speaker 1: we were in. Guys were talking about this woman being 285 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: pregnant not once, but twice, resulting in two babies thrown 286 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 1: away like trash, which is a whole other canon worms 287 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: in itself. To figure out the disposal of these children, 288 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 1: Why you would treat them like trash. There's got to 289 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 1: be an ulterior motive to that disposal, a meaning to 290 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: treating these little babies light trash. But listen to Taggart 291 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 1: Hout at wpde Devolt went to the hospital just over 292 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 1: a week ago for bleeding. Doctors found a placenta and 293 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 1: a biblical cord, but no baby. A police report states 294 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: she denied the hospital staff that she was pregnant, but 295 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,640 Speaker 1: later confessed to police that she's had the baby at home. 296 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: It was breathing, and she disposed of it. Nothing good 297 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 1: about anything that like that happening anywhere close to home. 298 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: Eric Karen lived near Devout last November for Poor says 299 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 1: she did the same thing in this apartment building. I 300 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: feel like it's a very family oriented community and to 301 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:10,879 Speaker 1: hear something like that happening in my neighborhood, in our neighborhood, 302 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 1: is really sad. The disposal of the babies is an 303 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: emotional decision that a trial lawyer like myself, I need 304 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: help figuring that out. Prime Stories with Nancy Grace. We're 305 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: talking about a beautiful young woman, a fairly famous makeup artist. 306 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,400 Speaker 1: If you go on YouTube, you find tons of her 307 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 1: videos where she does one beautiful job after the next. 308 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: Chullian artist. How does someone in the prime of their 309 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 1: life with a wonderful, loving partner and that would have 310 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 1: been chrismatician two beautiful little girls turn into a martyr monster. 311 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 1: I don't get it. And then we learn there's a 312 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: suggestion of another dead baby. Take a listen to WPT 313 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: ABC fifteen. A police report says they learned of the 314 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,399 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen baby when they secured her medical records. They 315 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 1: say those records show she had an er visit in 316 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,880 Speaker 1: her third trimester in twenty seventeen and that she admitted 317 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: she gave birth to a live baby girl and disposed 318 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 1: of the child. Dave Old's Facebook page shows a smiling 319 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,400 Speaker 1: mom with two children. Police say they're six and eight 320 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 1: years old. We reached out to her family and her boyfriend, 321 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: but have not heard back. Her boyfriend, Chris did post 322 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: this message on his Facebook page, saying, quote, I beg 323 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: for your prayers, prayers for my son and daughter who 324 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: were not given the chance to live on this planet 325 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: that we're selfishly hidden from me and thrown away like trash. 326 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: As he is turning it over and over in his 327 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:12,400 Speaker 1: mind like a Rubik's cube, he can't figure out. Take 328 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: a listen to what we learned Chrismatician had to say. 329 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 1: He claims he's the father of both babies and had 330 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 1: no idea she was pregnant. Did I notice her gaining 331 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:26,399 Speaker 1: weight early twenty seventeen? Of course, yeah, I mean, but 332 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: how do you bring that up to your girlfriend? You know? 333 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,640 Speaker 1: And again in twenty eighteen he noticed the same thing. 334 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 1: She was even complaining about her back, hurtling stuff, and 335 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: I'd be like, well, let's go. I mean, we live 336 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:42,880 Speaker 1: right next to a park. Let's go walk the park. 337 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: Let's go do something like that, you know, she would 338 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,440 Speaker 1: just be like, oh, you just want me to lose weight. 339 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 1: He says he thought he knew deave Vault, or I 340 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,360 Speaker 1: was ready to spend the rest of my life with her, 341 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 1: and then it's like one day everything is different. He 342 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: hopes her other children he still cares. I just hope 343 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: they don't think I abandoned them, you know, trying to 344 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:10,160 Speaker 1: figure out what happened. And the reality is to Karen Start, 345 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: New York psychologists joining us from Manhattan. You can find 346 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: her at karen start dot com. In my mind, there's 347 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 1: really no way she can claim insanity because she plotted 348 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: to keep the pregnancies a secret by wearing the bigger clothes, 349 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: by basically going on the offense when it was brought 350 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 1: up to her that she was gaining weight, by saying 351 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: I offered to go for a walk, she goes, oh, 352 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: you just want me to lose weight, and turning it 353 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: back on the boyfriend so he wouldn't bring it up again. 354 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:45,880 Speaker 1: And the elaborate lies that she constructed for nine months, 355 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: not once, but twice. That rules out the possibility, of 356 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 1: my mind of any insanity. Not insane, not at all. Nancy, 357 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,120 Speaker 1: I mean, you can be a psychopath and it has 358 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,679 Speaker 1: nothing to do with being insane. You know the difference 359 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 1: between right and wrong that you don't care. There's this 360 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 1: thing when someone is a psychopath or antisocial personality. The 361 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: way this woman sounds seems to me that she is. 362 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: There is really no anxiety, regret, or regard for the 363 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: suffering of others. So killing a baby it doesn't mean 364 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 1: anything to her. It's a dog. She can do whatever 365 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 1: she wants, but she knows she's doing it. There's no 366 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: doubt about it. I got another question to ask you, 367 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: Wilcott Ashley. Do you think pretty people get away with 368 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: more yea than untraditional beauty? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes 369 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: yes I see it from the bench. I do see 370 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: it from the bench. Should it be that way? Absolutely, 371 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: not a thousand percent. But they seem to not to 372 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:50,719 Speaker 1: see the pretty people, but they seem to have more 373 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: confidence and more belief in themselves sometimes right, But for 374 00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:02,360 Speaker 1: whatever reason, I absolutely see that those with beauty looks 375 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 1: do get away with more. They do even with their 376 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: own family. I think it's harder for juries because they 377 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: look at this person they go, wow, they've got everything there. 378 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 1: This woman is gorgeous. She's got a great figure, she's 379 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 1: got a beautiful family. This guy's head over heels in 380 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: love with her. He's even helping raise her two little girls. 381 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: She's got these two girls to live for. It's really 382 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: hard to believe that she would throw all that away. 383 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, if she had not developed 384 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 1: that infection from the tear she received during childbirth, yeah, 385 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 1: she could be very well pregnant right now and getting 386 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,920 Speaker 1: rid of another baby. Out to Levi Page, Crime online 387 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter, what do we know about the 388 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 1: cod cause of death on the babies? And how do 389 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: you think, Levi Page, she managed to pull it off? 390 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,199 Speaker 1: Was she working? I mean, did she does work? I mean, 391 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,120 Speaker 1: how does she pull off not one, but two pregnancies? 392 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: Gonna That's why I mentioned Her boyfriend said that they 393 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,360 Speaker 1: slept in separate rooms because he snored. He didn't even 394 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:10,679 Speaker 1: know that she gave birth, he said, because they slept 395 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: in separate rooms. And police obtained medical records when she 396 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: went to the doctor in twenty eighteen and delivered an 397 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: umbilical cord. They fought an umbilical cord, and she refused 398 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: to say she was pregnant. They tested her urine. It 399 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 1: had traces of marijuana THHC in it, and in addition 400 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 1: to that, they called the police, and the police started 401 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 1: investigating and looked at her medical files and they discovered 402 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 1: that in twenty seventeen she had actually gone to the 403 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:45,920 Speaker 1: doctor and for being pregnant. She knew she was pregnant 404 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen, so they questioned her and presented her 405 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: with all the evidence and she finally broke down and admitted, yes, 406 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: I was pregnant in twenty seventeen, gave birth to a 407 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: little girl, disposed of the body in the public trash 408 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: area that apartment complexes have, and that body has never 409 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:10,160 Speaker 1: to this day been recovered. So the dad has no idea, 410 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: no idea what has happened to the baby girl. Right now, 411 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,639 Speaker 1: all we know about is the baby boy who was 412 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: thrown away in a garbage can and the boyfriend, the 413 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 1: bio dad has to look at that garbage can and 414 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 1: goes that's where they found my baby. Prime Stories with 415 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, we are talking about a beautiful young thirtieth 416 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: year old young woman, a makeup star on YouTube, her 417 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: name Alyssa. Take a listen to our friends at w 418 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,680 Speaker 1: B one police interviewed Davell. They say she confessed to 419 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 1: delivering a male child here at her home on South 420 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 1: Oak Drive on December second. She told police the child 421 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 1: was alive and took multiple gasping breadths, but she failed 422 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: to seek medical treatment and didn't try to save the 423 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 1: child's life. The warrant says Davil then put the child's 424 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,120 Speaker 1: body in the trash at her home without notifying police. 425 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 1: No one, you carried it for non mis and to 426 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: dispose them in the trash and lived day by day. 427 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: There's no way I can do it. Warrants also say 428 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: a similar incident happened November twenty seventeen, where dave All 429 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,399 Speaker 1: disposed of a baby girl in the dumpster at her 430 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 1: apartment complex. I just pray for her family and definitely 431 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 1: her children to grow up puffully without a mother because 432 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: of the mistakes that she did. Those who knew Deveolts 433 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: say they had no idea she was pregnant, but they 434 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 1: did notice she was wearing sweatshirts and baggy clothes on 435 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: hot days in the summer this past a few months, 436 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: she says, and this is the critical part of what 437 00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: Davo says, that she gave birth to a little boy 438 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 1: December two. He was born alive and took multiple gasping 439 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,360 Speaker 1: breath she fits. She says she failed to seek medical 440 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 1: help and did not try to save the child's life, 441 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: then put the child in the trash at her home. 442 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,639 Speaker 1: How can we tell, Joe Scott Morgan did the baby 443 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: die on its own or did she suffocate the baby? Well, 444 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: one of the things that that you're going to look for, obviously, Nancy, 445 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 1: are going to be you know, things that we've talked 446 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 1: about in the past, like external trauma to the face. 447 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,400 Speaker 1: These babies are very, very fragile. It wouldn't really take 448 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: a lot, but certainly particular hemorrhages to see if there's 449 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 1: any kind of burst blood vessels that would give us 450 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: an indication of asphyxiation. But here's you know, I would 451 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: just want to take it back very quickly. This is 452 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: this is the key, she says. She says that this 453 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: child just kind of dwindle, just kind of you know, 454 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: diminished and died. That's one of the things I want 455 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 1: to know out. First off, you have to prove that 456 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 1: the child was alive. And one of the things that 457 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 1: we've done the past, and you and I've talked about it. 458 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,919 Speaker 1: Is this float tests where you see if the lungs 459 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:13,120 Speaker 1: had actually been you know, extended to the point where 460 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 1: they breathed air, you know, to see if the lungs 461 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 1: float in a bucket of water. And that's one of 462 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 1: the tests that we do. And once you established that, 463 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 1: then you can move forward with this idea. The child 464 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: was not still born, the child was alive, and that 465 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 1: she neglected this child to the point of death or 466 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 1: or did she actually suffocate the child? To Leavi page 467 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: climb online dot Com investigative reporter, did she stick with 468 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 1: that story or did she change her story about happened 469 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: what happened when she gave birth? She when they discovered 470 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: that she had been bringed it in twenty seventeen, she 471 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 1: initially told police that she gave that child up for adoption, 472 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 1: and then she later admitted, yes, I disposed of the 473 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: body in the trash can. And she did change her 474 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: stories in twenty eighteen, two after giving birth to a 475 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: baby boy, she at first denied that she was pregnant, 476 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 1: and then given evidence that she was, she couldn't refute it. 477 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: She finally admitted that she disposed of them in the 478 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: trash can of their home, and the pathologists cannot determine 479 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 1: exactly how the baby boy died m so it kind 480 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: of stuck with her story. Take a listen to Josh Halford. 481 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: That has proved intentionally is we're not saying that she 482 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: intentionally or her This is stream different fire to the 483 00:29:46,520 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: trash we love and the disease in the st She 484 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: breaks down, Yes, more live please. That is extreme indifference 485 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: for human life, and that is a theory of murder. 486 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: It is called an abandoned and malignant heart. Extreme indifference 487 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: to human life. For instance, as I like to explain 488 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: to juries, when you drive your suv at ninety mph 489 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: through a street fair and you end up mowing down 490 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 1: three or four people, did you didn't even know those people. 491 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: You didn't intend to kill that person. But your extreme 492 00:30:53,920 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: indifference to human life, your malignant abandonment to all things 493 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 1: reasonably cautious, equals murder, is called an abandoned and malignant heart. 494 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 1: She says, the baby was born alive and then she 495 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: put it in the trash, and you know what a 496 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: stroke of really luck and good coping. Because the cops 497 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 1: race over the baby is still in the trash. Do 498 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: I have that right, LEVI, because the trash just so 499 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: happened did not get wheeled out to the street. You 500 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: are absolutely correct, and that is work fine. I mean, 501 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: how could she continue on knowing the babies in the 502 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:46,479 Speaker 1: trash can? I don't get how that how you can 503 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: even do that. But in response to what we're learning 504 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: in court, take a listen to what doctors say. Here's 505 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: wpge ABC fifteen. Two doctors also testified. You both said 506 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 1: all of the clues indicated she had been pregnant. The 507 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: defense focused on the fact that none of those doctors 508 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 1: or law enforcement officials were there when the children were 509 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: born or could say if they'd been born alive. They 510 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: charged my mind two casts of Housie. It's on their 511 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: theory of where her, but it shows that it's a theory. 512 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: Dave All told police she'd passed out after giving birth 513 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen, and when she woke up, the baby 514 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: was unresponsive. However, she'd also told them the babies were 515 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 1: gasping for air after delivery. Okay, wait a minute, right there, 516 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: that's an engoxistent statement to ask you, Wilcot child lawyer, 517 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: judge anchor court TV. And while you can't bring hearsay 518 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: into court unless it falls into one of the many 519 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 1: hearsay exceptions when a defendant says something that can be 520 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 1: brought into court, especially when it's an inconsistent statement. So 521 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 1: she tells cops the babies were gasping for air after 522 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: delivery and she simply did not take them to the hospital. 523 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: That she that's obviously what happened. Then she changes her 524 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: story too, She passes out and doesn't know what happened 525 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 1: to the babies. They just both of them end up dead. 526 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: Another story she gave was that she gave the baby 527 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:17,240 Speaker 1: girl up for adoption. So she's told so many stories. 528 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 1: These inconsistent statements are coming into evidence. Ashley, Yeah, they're 529 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 1: definitely coming into evidence. And here's the advantage to the 530 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: prosecution that they're coming into evidence. She did something to 531 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: these children. She can't keep her story straight. She can't 532 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: tell you exactly what she did. But there's no doubt 533 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 1: when somebody tells this many different versions of a story, 534 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 1: all of which, by the way, results in the death, 535 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: all of which results in the death, then clearly it's 536 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 1: easier in my opinion, to convince the jury that she 537 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 1: did it. Because she can't even keep her story straight. 538 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 1: Take a listen to Uni and Watson Wmbs. Among today's 539 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: witnesses were doctors who examined Alyssa Davald during and after 540 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: her pregnancies, as well as detectives who investigated the case. 541 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 1: The first day of trial finished with testimony from the 542 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 1: doctor who discovered Da Vote was pregnant in November of 543 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,320 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen. Another doctor who treated day Vot after she 544 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 1: gave birth in twenty eighteen also took the stand. The 545 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: doctor says she was shocked when she pulled out a 546 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,760 Speaker 1: full term placenta, but there was no baby. The jury 547 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 1: also heard from two detectives who interviewed Da Volt in 548 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen and watched part of their interviews with her now. 549 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 1: In the initial interview, captured on a body camera, you 550 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: can hear day Vote at first denied having a baby. 551 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: After further questioning, Da Vot admits to giving birth twice 552 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 1: and dumping both babies in the trash, one in a 553 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,959 Speaker 1: trash can beside her house. And the interviews, Davot also 554 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 1: says the father of the babies did not know about 555 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: them or that she threw them in the trash. During 556 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,920 Speaker 1: cross examination, the defense pointed out. At one point, Dave 557 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,920 Speaker 1: Vote said she passed out after giving birth and claimed 558 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,840 Speaker 1: the baby was blue, limp and unresponsive. You know, I've noticed, 559 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,880 Speaker 1: over the course of years working in courts that so 560 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,360 Speaker 1: often when the victim is an infant or a child 561 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,800 Speaker 1: per the killer gets a lighter sentence. They get voluntary 562 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: manslaughter or even involuntary manslaughter. I don't know why in 563 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 1: this case, LEVI page what happened? So Nancy, the trial 564 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 1: started and she did not show up for the trial, 565 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,880 Speaker 1: so a bench worn't was issued for arrest, but they 566 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 1: continue on with the trial. She was found guilty and 567 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:33,320 Speaker 1: ultimately caught, brought a court, and she was sentenced to 568 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 1: forty years in prison. According to sources, she's already planning 569 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 1: her appeal. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace crime story, 570 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend,