1 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of the Variety podcast Strictly Business, 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:12,480 Speaker 1: where we talked to some of the brightest minds working 3 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 1: in media today. Entertainment that informs is the motto at Attention, 4 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: Los Angeles based digital content company. It's a sentiment that 5 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: pervades their work, from short Instagram videos to full length 6 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 1: series that appear on TV networks like free Form. How 7 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 1: a business that specialized in social video branched out to 8 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: TV is what we'll talk about today with our next guest, 9 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: Attention co founder Matthew Siegel. Matthew, thanks for being here. 10 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: Good to be here. Andrew thinks, So the motto entertainment 11 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 1: that informs, why is that so central to what you do? 12 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: It goes back to the philosophy of why my co founder, 13 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: jareded Morino and I started the company, which is simply 14 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: we came from politics and specific running a voter registration 15 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: organization called our Time dot org, and when we tried 16 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: to get people to care about the political system, to 17 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:10,399 Speaker 1: care about issues, we ran up against a lot of 18 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: resistance because, frankly, the language and the media used in 19 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: Washington was often very wonky and complicated and tough to 20 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: understand and boring and not that interesting. So we really 21 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: tried to use a cultural and an entertainment like sensibility 22 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 1: to get people to care. And that was really the 23 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: reason for being for why we started the company, and 24 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: to meet the consumer of course on all the platforms 25 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: where they live, uh, to give them important information, but 26 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: to not be too academic or medicinal with how we 27 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: do it. You have to be fun, you have to 28 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 1: be clever, you have to be creative to get an 29 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: important message across. And that's what we try to excel 30 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: at and so to this day, that's the through line. 31 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: That's everything in the short form to long form of it. All. 32 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: The through line across everything is that we try to 33 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: cover purpose driven stories, important issues, but we try to 34 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: do it through an entertaining um style of programming or 35 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: some kind of you know, creative way of getting people 36 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: to understand the issues, and that every issue we cover 37 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:15,519 Speaker 1: is deeply political or you know, incredibly legislative in its nature. 38 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: We cover health and wellness. We do a lot of 39 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 1: programming around what we call adult NG teaching young people 40 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: sort of the life skills for when they age and 41 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: become transitional in their lives, starting families, buying a house, 42 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: buying a car, all those kinds of things. But those 43 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: are still important transitional events in people's lives that they 44 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: have to focus on, that they need context and information on. 45 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 1: Often that information is presented to them in a boring way. 46 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: We try to be entertaining and how we get it 47 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: across to the consumer. But um, so we've definitely branched 48 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: out more topics of focus than just per se politics 49 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: or just per se uh social issues. Well, it sounds 50 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: like you're saying lifestyle to some degree the video. I 51 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: think about high heels the YouTube influence, But in that video, 52 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: the sort of underlying message is that high heels have 53 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 1: evolved throughout history in who's warned them? Uh, in their 54 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: purpose and fashion is often a testament to saying a 55 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: lot about gender, our culture, our social fabric and so forth. 56 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:24,640 Speaker 1: So there's actually a deeper message, um in that particular video, 57 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: which is part of our new Facebook watch series Undivided Attention, 58 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: which is hosted by various big influencers Instagram stars who 59 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: break down one big issue each week and give it context. 60 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: And that was our episode for Fashion Week. Well, I 61 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: noticed another word you're not using, an N word is 62 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: news you're not in the news business. That's not how 63 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: you see it, even though obviously there's some commonality with 64 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: traditional news. Yeah, I mean, so we're not in the 65 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: news business, and we're very careful, uh not to delineate 66 00:03:55,280 --> 00:04:00,080 Speaker 1: ourselves as a news company, because news, while I love it, 67 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: a lot of people love it, is reactive in nature. 68 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: You generally wake up in the morning and you say, 69 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: oh my god, what am I going to cover today? 70 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: And it's often out of your control, uh, if not 71 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: definitionally at times out of your control. And UM programming 72 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: is a more proactive business when you say we have 73 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 1: various series, various topics, various areas of interest that we 74 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: want to cover and own and focus on. That is 75 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 1: uh generally more well thought out, more planned in advance, 76 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: and uh more geared toward UM you know, a longer 77 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: production timeline, and that's where we see a business opportunity 78 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: to make a bigger impact for the company. So it's 79 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: it's unscripted, it's serious minded. Was that a fair way 80 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 1: to describing the substance mind is serious to me? Is 81 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: too not fun synonymous with boring and earnest is a 82 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: word we try to avoid too, because you don't want 83 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: your content to feel overly earnest. We've all heard Network 84 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: exact say this feels kind of earnest, and that's never 85 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: a note that's often given with a positive association. So 86 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 1: we want things to feel important, we want things to 87 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: have magnitude, to have weight, but we don't want them 88 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: to feel to lecturing. M Well, I my guess is 89 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: this approach of yours comes to bear in this latest 90 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: announcement from you guys that you'll be doing a show 91 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,479 Speaker 1: with Joe Biden, which again you hear something like Biden, 92 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: it's like, oh, that's news, but that's not your approach. 93 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 1: What are you doing with Joe exactly? So we're really 94 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 1: excited to be partnering with the Vice President on a 95 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: I G TV series. So it is a vertically shot 96 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:50,919 Speaker 1: for the mobile screen for Instagram TV series of explainer 97 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,919 Speaker 1: videos with the Vice President on big topics that he 98 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: can attention see as important consequential themes for the election 99 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: and beyond that voters need to know about. But they're 100 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: broken down in a fun, accessible and relatable way. These 101 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: aren't academic lecturers from the Vice president. Uh. These are graphic, 102 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: intensive personal stories infused with policy. Uh. Context, contextualizing from 103 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 1: the VP using the sort of sensibility of how attention 104 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: makes politicians, makes elected officials feel relevant and interesting to 105 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 1: a wider audience, something that very we're very proud of. 106 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 1: I'm proud of having come from Washington, d C. And 107 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: always at times bang my head against the wall at 108 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 1: the difficulty that politicians have it getting their message out 109 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: is that they often don't meet voters on the platforms 110 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 1: that they live, and they often uh don't necessarily try 111 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: to make their message or their communications goals uh seem 112 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: fun and interesting and culturally analogous, and we really try 113 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: to push them a little bit out of their comfort zone. 114 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: At the end of the day, Uh, they are political animals. 115 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: So there's only so much pushing you can do on 116 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: certain politicians. Given example, we've worked with everyone from um 117 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: Biden when he was in the White House, to numerous 118 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: cabinet secretaries, to both Democratic and Republican senators Lindsey Graham. 119 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: We've worked with Elizabeth Warren. We've worked with Chuck Schumer, 120 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: We've worked with John Carey when he was Secretary of State, 121 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: all to get their policy uh issues of interest that 122 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: we find important and compelling tens of millions of views 123 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: on the Internet, and we're really proud of that. I mean, 124 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: we had an aha moment at first when there was 125 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: a summit that Secretary carry was hosting on the importance 126 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: of our oceans. Kind of a met topic at face value, 127 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: but when he talked about the overfishing and the plastics 128 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: in our ocean and the fact that the ocean is, 129 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: you know, the source of so much life and ecosystem 130 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: for all of us, and then we put that into 131 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: a really simple, graphic focus context. The video did more 132 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: than twenty million views, and we said, why this is 133 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: the most viral video that's certainly the State Department has 134 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: ever engaged in trying to get out of message across 135 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: on social and so can we scale this to other 136 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: political uh individuals who want to work with us to 137 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: get their message out in a creative way and we're 138 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: out of that. Talking about getting the message out sounds 139 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 1: to me like, is he not basically saying he's either 140 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: testing the waters for the presidency or he's all in. 141 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: I mean this, this to me is akin to what 142 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: another candidate might have done in a previous era in 143 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 1: book form to an older audience. He's perhaps savily targeting 144 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: the millennial crowd who will be voters. Look, Vice President 145 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: Biden has said that he's going to make his decision 146 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: whether he's running in January. I think he said that 147 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 1: publicly if several weeks ago. Um, so you'll have to 148 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,959 Speaker 1: ask his team for the real time updates on that. 149 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: I think what Attention was excited to do was to 150 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: convince a major national politician like the Vice president, to say, Look, 151 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: you have an important message you want to get out 152 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: to voters. Let's think about Notch is doing that through 153 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: going on Meet the Press or this week or one 154 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:06,079 Speaker 1: of the Sunday shows, or going on CNN. Let's do 155 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: that through mobile. Let's do that on I G t V. 156 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: We're also distributing them on our Facebook and Twitter and 157 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: YouTube handles as well as his. So these will reach 158 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: a lot of eyeballs on different platforms, but it's native 159 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,599 Speaker 1: to digital. And yes, it did force certain members of 160 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: the Biden team out of their comfort zone. But um, 161 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: how do you make Joe Biden uncomfortable? Uh? You just well, 162 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: we didn't purposely try to make them feel uncomfortable, but 163 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: you just have to explain to people who don't always 164 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 1: get what it's like to get information first through mobile phone, 165 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,319 Speaker 1: the process of discovery that consumers have, and how people 166 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: get information today through discovery. They don't get it always intentionally. 167 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: People don't know what they're looking for when they log 168 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,439 Speaker 1: on Twitter and Facebook and YouTube. They go down a 169 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: rabbit hole and they just scroll on the feed and 170 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: then oh, wow, this is interesting, I'll watch this. So 171 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: just explaining that that sort of shift from intentional seven 172 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: o'clock PM Eastern time viewing to this era of discovery 173 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: was a big shift in sort of outlook for comms 174 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: people who come from the Washington, d C. Establishment. So 175 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: do you think people are gonna come away from your 176 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: Joe Biden show with a different sense of the man 177 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: than the man they who's obviously very already well known. 178 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: I think he looks really casual in it. In some 179 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: episodes he took off his sport jacket. Uh crazy, looks young, 180 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: he looks fresh, and he's forward looking for doing it. 181 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: And I give him a lot of credit. I mean, 182 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: trust me, a lot of politicians would uh say, why 183 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,680 Speaker 1: would I want to do something on this platform that's 184 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: only been out a few weeks called Instagram TV? What 185 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 1: is it? But there's a curiosity from him and from 186 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: the and from his organization that wanted to experiment. And 187 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 1: I give any politician credit who wants to experiment with 188 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: new media. So let's switch gears here and talk a 189 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: bit about Instagram TV. It's sort of the new platform 190 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: for video. Uh, it's gotten a certain degree of buzz. 191 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:05,439 Speaker 1: Curious from your perspective, why do you need to play here? So, 192 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 1: Instagram is becoming the fastest growing new media platform with 193 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: millennials around. It's certainly the most sticky. It's certainly where 194 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: more celebs and more public figures are putting their time 195 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: and energy. They're shifting it from Twitter and Facebook and 196 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: into Instagram. It's one of the only accounts, quite honestly, 197 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: that most at least celebrities in the entertainment world managed themselves. 198 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 1: They don't just refer to their PR teams and say, hey, 199 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: put this on my Twitter or put this on my face. 200 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: They're very carefully curating and owning their own Instagram. And also, uh, 201 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 1: Instagram is gaining users from Snapchat as they get slightly 202 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: older and as they've basically launched the stories feature, And 203 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: so Instagram already has a hundreds of millions of active 204 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 1: users spending numerous minutes a day and hundreds of minutes 205 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: per month on the platform, but Asian there, so monetization 206 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:03,679 Speaker 1: is not there, and trust me, I'm frustrated about that too. 207 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: We'll get to that in one second. But on the 208 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: I G. T V side, to answer your question, UM, 209 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: there is sort of the idea that we have this 210 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: consumer base, it's sticky, it loves our platform. Can they 211 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: stay on longer and actually watch something um on the train, 212 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 1: you know, when they're walking down the street, in the 213 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 1: backseat of a car, when they're waiting in line that's three, 214 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: four or five six minutes long. And then eventually, of 215 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: course they're gonna serve midrole ads and they're gonna serve 216 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: UM publishers. They're gonna pick select publishers to really pay 217 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: for programming. I mean the writings on the wall that 218 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 1: they're going to have to move in that direction because 219 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: they want to monetize it more effectively too. And so 220 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: we think that by being an early adopter on the 221 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: platform and by using it and experimenting it and it's 222 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 1: experimenting with it and getting smart with it, we'll be 223 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: ready to be one of the marquee publishers on it 224 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 1: once they release premium programming. Outside of that, I'm sure 225 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: Attention has content on every major platform out there. Uh. 226 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: I know it's hard to sort of wrap it all 227 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,319 Speaker 1: in a nutshell, but what is it like in teen 228 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: dealing with these tech giants and monetization challenges up and 229 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: down each of these platforms. So monetization is definitely, uh, 230 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: top of mind for every digital publisher, and it evolves constantly. 231 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: And the one thing I've learned, you know, we founded 232 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: Attention four years ago. The one thing I learned uh 233 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: quickly with this business is if you're not nimble, and 234 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: you're not constantly willing to shift and change and slightly 235 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: pivot and change your your programming philosophy and your optimization philosophy, 236 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,559 Speaker 1: you're in big trouble. The world, the culture of the platforms, 237 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: they all evolve and move so quickly now that if 238 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:47,839 Speaker 1: you get stuck in your ways, you're gonna get quickly 239 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: left behind. So we really try to embrace the flexible 240 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 1: culture at Attention, where we have a great team who's 241 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 1: constantly experimenting, constantly excited to test new things. You know, 242 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,199 Speaker 1: there's a lot of testing, testing, testing, and out mean 243 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: testing in like a how do we hack the system 244 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: kind of way. I mean testing like let's see if 245 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: this new style works, if this new format works, and 246 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: then we use those data points to then invest in 247 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: bigger series that we want to spend more of our 248 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: capital on. But um in terms of monetization, YouTube is 249 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: the most mature of the platforms. They have a really 250 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: good monetization system, but it's also the toughest platform to 251 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: grow a new following from scratch because there's so many 252 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: incumbents on the platform, and it's a much tougher discoverability 253 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: platform because there's so much content on there and they 254 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: don't have really a feed the way that Facebook and 255 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: Instagram and Twitter do that it's tougher to find things 256 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: that you don't already know about. Most people go on YouTube, 257 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: I believe still still for music, searching for particular songs 258 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: that they want to listen to our artists that they 259 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: want to hear. That's actually the number one use of 260 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: YouTube based on what I've heard. And then after that 261 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: there's media programming and all other kinds of things. With 262 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: respect to Facebook, Facebook is getting better at monetization. We 263 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: make most of our money through selling brand did content 264 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: custom content, uh, in campaigns direct to brands that will 265 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: often air on the various different social platforms. Um. So 266 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: that's a direct relationship we have with the brands where 267 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: Facebook's not as much the middleman, um, but even the 268 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: mid role ads where Facebook is the middleman, we're starting 269 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: to see, you know, I wouldn't quite say an encouraging amount, 270 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: but a closer to encouraging amount of mid role in 271 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: programmatic revenue from that. We have four shows on Facebook Watch. 272 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: That's original programming funding. That's good money. Facebook's budgets are getting, 273 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: you know, akin to all the major premium TV and 274 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: O T T services. Uh. Twitter monetization is tough across 275 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 1: the board, but mostly it's through the pre roll ads 276 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: and Instagram monetization is the toughest, and obviously that's the 277 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: most new. Sure well, I mean, as I said off 278 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: the top, you know, none of these platforms are taking 279 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: it to easy street, which is why you're also very 280 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: active on the long form side. Uh. Give us a 281 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: taste of some of the prominent TV projects you've got 282 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: so uh, speaking of the long formed side of things, 283 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: we've realized because we're in l A and we very 284 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: intentionally decided to start attention and base attention out of 285 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: Los Angeles. That i P is critical for futuristic media companies. 286 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: You can't just worry about morality as a publisher. We 287 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: get a lot of morality, and we're proud to make 288 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: viral videos that reach sometimes hundreds of millions of people. 289 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: But we also need to have i P that's scalable 290 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: up and down to television, to streaming services, to you know, 291 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: potentially international outlets for a licensing and syndication business that 292 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 1: allow us to create alternate streams, you know, for the businesses. 293 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: It becomes more mature. So in that sense, we're excited 294 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: to take things that we've developed online and have tested online, 295 00:16:55,880 --> 00:17:00,080 Speaker 1: like our America Versus franchise, where we compare our our 296 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: country to other countries, uh, and see what we can 297 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: learn from people abroad in terms of the solutions to 298 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 1: problems like uh, you know, pollution, or problems like the 299 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: cost of goods and services, or even like how they 300 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: run their transit systems more efficiently than we do. And uh, 301 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: we've done sixty episodes of that show digitally, it's done 302 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: over a billion views. Uh, it's safe to say that 303 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 1: every single episode has pretty much gone viral or gotten 304 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 1: millions and millions and millions of views, and so we 305 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,439 Speaker 1: already know it works. And so when we take that 306 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,880 Speaker 1: to a TV partner and we say this works, it's 307 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 1: proven it can market the show and have a shelf 308 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 1: life off of linear. But once we attach an interesting 309 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 1: host and um, you know, an interesting group of producers 310 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: to it, this is a hard project to say no to, 311 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 1: not to say that they can't say now, trust me, 312 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: we have a lot of humility in the TV space. 313 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 1: But it's the way that we have a competitive advantage 314 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: in pitching that we have this huge marketing mechanism and 315 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 1: built in district aribution. So unlike other production companies that 316 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: are just doing great productions but can't really market their 317 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:08,360 Speaker 1: productions and bring millions of built in eyeballs to them, 318 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 1: we can m it. Almost when I hear you talk, 319 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 1: it almost makes me think nowadays, why anyone in unscripted 320 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: television would not have at the foundation of their business 321 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 1: this kind of orality machine that creates uh promotion that 322 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: can be harnessed just for testing and all that. That's 323 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 1: our competitive advantage, that's what we're all banking on. That 324 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: was and not to give ourselves too much credit, because 325 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 1: we've made a lot of mistakes too. But that was 326 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: always part of the plan. Build an audience that's real, 327 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 1: that's authentic, that can serve up proofpoints to then create 328 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: i P that can be scaled everywhere on every platform. 329 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,919 Speaker 1: And look, platforms are gonna come and grow. Some platforms 330 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: are gonna eventually screw you. Um. But the truth of 331 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: the matter is you have good content and good i P. 332 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: At the end of the day, you'll have longevity. And 333 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: so what is the financial health of your business? Right now? 334 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: You've gone through a few rounds, we have twenty four 335 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: million dollars? I think, are you set up for the 336 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: next round? Are you looking to be acquired? What? What? 337 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,919 Speaker 1: What's your So when you start a business, you always 338 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 1: have to keep in mind that you're building it for 339 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: the long haul. Um. So, I mean we're not imminently 340 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,639 Speaker 1: trying to have any kind of transaction. Of course, if 341 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: some incredible offer comes, so long, I'm not going to 342 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:28,159 Speaker 1: sit here and lie to you and say that we 343 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 1: wouldn't take it. There's always an opportunity to grow your 344 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: business inside someone other's function and to actually expedite your 345 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: growth and to be a problem solver for a larger institution. 346 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: There's a lot of consolidation happening in the industry. UM. 347 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:45,919 Speaker 1: We have raised capital contents expensive, high quality contents expensive 348 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: and uh we've wanted to use the capital we've raised 349 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 1: to invest and try things, some of which thankfully have worked. Uh. 350 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: We also need great content creators. We need great animators, 351 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,120 Speaker 1: We need graphics people, all of whom work at attention 352 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: and who are excellent at their jobs. Uh. And we 353 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,360 Speaker 1: try to pay them well uh and and compensate them 354 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: for their work. And most importantly, UH, you know, we 355 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 1: want to be able to launch new business units. We 356 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: just announced recently that we hired ahead of Television Development 357 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: and you know, that's a business unit. Over the next 358 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: six or twelve months, we're investing more resources into UM 359 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: for scripted, that's for unscripted and maybe scripted too. You know, 360 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: there's an there's an opportunity to do purpose driven content 361 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 1: in the scripted space. Uh. You know, my one of 362 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 1: my favorite shows for an example that that that's a 363 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: great example of that is Thirteen Reasons on Netflix. You know, 364 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: there's a lot of issues around suicide, mental health. They're 365 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: sort of woven into the script of that show. Um 366 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: you know, however controversial, some of those topics might be 367 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: uh that really create and foster a conversation among people 368 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: socially and in person. But it's an entertainment scripted show. 369 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: I think Attention can totally pull off a Thirteen Reasons 370 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: type of show in its future. But first, we're gonna 371 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:06,919 Speaker 1: start with some of the um you know walk before 372 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 1: we run obvious unscripted ideas. Um you know, we have 373 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: Facebook watch shows right now with Jessica Alba, with Zoey Deschanel, 374 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: with Nive Shulman and his wife Laura Prolongo. Like I said, 375 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 1: with a bunch of Instagram stars, that stuff, UM, we're 376 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: really excited about we it's mid form. It's in that 377 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: coveted five to ten minute premium professionally produced uh space 378 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: that everyone's talking about. We see ourselves as a leader 379 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: in mid form content. I've said publicly and I'll say 380 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:36,160 Speaker 1: it again. We want to be the HBO of mid 381 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 1: form content. We want to be the premium best in 382 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: the business at making five to ten minute content. I 383 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: see that as a huge growth area for ourselves. For consumers, 384 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: watch times are going up, consumers aren't quite as impatient 385 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 1: as they were. They're willing to stay on a video 386 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 1: now for three or four minutes, as opposed to sixty seconds. 387 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 1: When we started this business four years ago, sixty seconds 388 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 1: they were off. Now they'll stay three or four minutes. 389 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: So we really want to own this mid form space 390 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: and do a great job of being one of the 391 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: best production companies for mid form and then one of 392 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 1: the best distribution channels from mid form too. And so 393 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: are you seeing concrete signs of consumption that suggests mid 394 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: form is working on any particular place. Now, That's why 395 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 1: I'm bullish on Instagram TV, because based on they're they're 396 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: testing and their user data, people are staying on Instagram 397 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: for video longer, especially on Instagram stories for longer than 398 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: a minute. And if people are going to watch a 399 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 1: long Instagram story all the way through, they figured people 400 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: can watch video all the way through Facebook. We've seen 401 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: retention time go up. Facebook watch retention times going up. 402 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: YouTube has the highest minutes watch it's ever seen. They 403 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 1: just reported that their watch times way up. So watch 404 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 1: time across all the platforms is going up, which makes 405 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,360 Speaker 1: me think, Okay, it doesn't have to be sixty seconds. Um, 406 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: I have a short attention span. I've never been uh 407 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: secretive about that, But even my attention span for video 408 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: content I've notice is going up just because I'm used 409 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: to saying, Okay, I'm going to stay on this thing longer, 410 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: because more programmers are holding my attention because they're getting 411 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: better at production. And um, that's good. By the way, 412 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: what's going to clean up Facebook, what's gonna clean up Instagram? 413 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 1: What's going to clean up YouTube? Is more professionally produced 414 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 1: mid form and short form content that's actually good, high quality, 415 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: trusted and stuff. And on those platforms, are you seeing 416 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: signs that Attention is becoming a true consumer brand? Yes? 417 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: And I mean obviously no one builds a consumer brand overnight, 418 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: uh And you have to build franchises in I P 419 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: and personality driven stuff that you're known for. But day 420 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,959 Speaker 1: by day, more people are not only recognizing the brand, 421 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 1: opting into the brand, seeking out our programming, especially a 422 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: lot a lot of our shows, talking about our programming. 423 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: Using our programming is an example of people who are 424 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: doing things well than ever before. But the Attention brand, 425 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: in its best form is a stamp of approval uh 426 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,439 Speaker 1: for content that has both a purpose driven element and 427 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 1: an entertainment element. And that's where we're sort of really 428 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:13,479 Speaker 1: trying to own a sweet spot with how we scale 429 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: things as we get longer and longer form and become 430 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: more mature, and so within the B two B space, 431 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 1: the attention brand, I assume is synonymous with creating good 432 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: content branded content, uh, white label content too, and also 433 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 1: consulting for brands. We have a big consulting in white 434 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: label business and production services business for our brand partners 435 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 1: to helping say, marketers or those brands find their way out. 436 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: So marketers have historically been amazing at hiring agencies and 437 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: production companies that say, make me an amazing thirty second 438 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: TV spot or a sixty second TV spot. What what 439 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 1: they've not historically found the right partners on is how 440 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 1: do we make an incredibly effective two to three minutes 441 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: social spot. And by the way, that can't necessarily always 442 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 1: come from Widen, Kennedy or one of these Madicine Avenue 443 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 1: type of firms. I have no problem with Wide and Kennedy, 444 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 1: but you know, they specialize in TV, and they specialize 445 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: in beautiful, incredible TV, but they don't specialize in the 446 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 1: sort of phone oriented, mobilely consumed style of well shot, 447 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: well produced, tight concise storytelling that is optimized to share 448 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: well on mobile. And that's what we do every day 449 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: editorially and originally, and so we know how it's in 450 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: our d n A. It's not a cultural shift for us. 451 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: It's who we are. And so when we go to 452 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: a brand, whether that's our brand partners, it's Samsung or 453 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 1: IBM or T Mobile, and we say, look, you can 454 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 1: hire a firm to do your TV. But you also 455 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: know that billions of users are on Facebook, billions of 456 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: users are on YouTube and Instagram and Twitter and snap 457 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: and they're actively, you know, interacting with topics of the world. 458 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: And if you don't create programming there that feels a 459 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: little bit more authentic to the platform, and with all 460 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: due respect, you're in trouble. And they understand that message 461 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: and they're using us as a trusted partner for it. 462 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 1: And so you know, knock on what our brand business 463 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 1: has been really solid um and our clients are pleased 464 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: and I hope we continue to grow it as the 465 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: new year comes. What is what is your revenue mix? 466 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:16,679 Speaker 1: Or maybe the better questions, what do you want it 467 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: to be? What what is going to be the the 468 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: engineer between branded content long form. So thankfully, right now 469 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:24,920 Speaker 1: it's about it's close to like a third or third 470 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 1: or third or third original programming, a third white label 471 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 1: and consulting and production services, and then a third custom 472 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,120 Speaker 1: and branded content. We'd like to get more into all 473 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 1: the diversification of revenue models that you're seeing more mature 474 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: media companies have. So that's tv UM, that's licensing and syndication. 475 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 1: We haven't even scratched the surface of a licensing and 476 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 1: syndication business, but we have properties that are certainly internationally relevant, 477 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 1: certainly can be licensed by the O T T platforms. 478 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: We just did a small deal with Zumo, which is 479 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,119 Speaker 1: one of our first O T T platforms were on UH. 480 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:01,199 Speaker 1: We see, believe it or not, merchandise as an opportunity. 481 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: You know. We have shows that UH talk about a 482 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 1: lot of health and wellness and food related topics from 483 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: not the perspective of recipes, but from the perspective of 484 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: health and nutrition, and we see the opportunity to create 485 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 1: marketplaces around some of that stuff that we're going to 486 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: test UH down the road, and so we're really interested 487 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: in every kind of diversification. We have no pride over 488 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: one revenue stream and no obsession over one revenue stream. Obviously, 489 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 1: like we have core revenue streams, but we have to 490 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: be nimble and creative with what we're open to. UM. 491 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 1: You know, company like Variety does events, who knows events 492 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 1: might be attentions future, there's a lot of opportunity, but 493 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: right now we're about a third or third or third 494 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: in those three buckets I just mentioned. Besides Variety, is 495 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: there a company out there in the media space that 496 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: you look at them and they're like, that's where we're 497 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 1: trying to get at, either from a revenue mix or 498 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: just a brand identity or I'll be honest, I really 499 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,920 Speaker 1: respect Vice. You know, they've had their problems, They've they've 500 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: had some hr issues recently that you know, hopefully they're correct, 501 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 1: but the fact is, and they missed their revenue target 502 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: last year and no one's perfect, but like, over twenty years, 503 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: they've built a business that, for all of its flaws, 504 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,239 Speaker 1: has great programming and great content. And at the end 505 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: of the day, we're content creators, so that's your core product. 506 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: And their content is good. Their HBO stuff is good. Uh, 507 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,880 Speaker 1: their YouTube stuff is great. Um. Their you know, ability 508 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: to tell a story I think is well executed most 509 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 1: of the time. And they've created all kinds of interesting 510 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 1: agency like revenue streams, event like revenue streams UM, experiential 511 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: type stuff obviously a ton in the in the I 512 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: P Licensing and syndication international world. And so I think 513 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: they're a good comp for like what we've in some 514 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 1: ways aspired to do in terms of the diversification of 515 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: revenue streams UM. But like you know, I also love 516 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: a lot of old, older media institutions. Sixty Minutes is 517 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 1: my favorite show on television. UM. I think they're the 518 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,479 Speaker 1: best storytellers, uh, certainly in the unscripted space. And you know, 519 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 1: we're inspired by certain things that they do to really 520 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: take an evergreen topic and contextualize it and go deep. Uh. 521 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: And I think we've been inspired by both new and 522 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 1: old players. One last question, point to a particular project 523 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: besides Joe Biden that you've got coming out in the 524 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 1: coming months. Do you think people should pay attention to? 525 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: Sorry pun, but that speaks to where attention is going 526 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: as a company. So UM, without disclosing the particular network 527 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 1: because I can't quite say that yet, I wish I could. UM, 528 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: we have a news magazine show that I'm very excited about. 529 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,719 Speaker 1: You just use the N word. I felt we were 530 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 1: doing that. I use it because it's the easiest way 531 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 1: to characterize the show. But it's not news driven in 532 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: the sense of it's not like reactive to what's happening 533 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: this week we have to cover it. It's more of 534 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: a magaze you know what. You're right, Andrew, I should 535 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: not have said the word news rebrand. It's a magazine show. 536 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: It's a documentary magazine show, UH, that we're really excited about, 537 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: and that will employ the best style and sensibility of attention, 538 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: using this sort of animation focused, graphic focused, UH, contextualizing 539 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: approach to things where um, you know, people will say, 540 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: oh wow. And so that's a project we're really excited about. UM. 541 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: We have a couple other projects with politicians, UH and UM, 542 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 1: current and former elected officials that I'm excited about. And 543 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 1: then we have some stuff in the lifestyle space that 544 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: I'm really excited about. Our our show Your Food's Roots 545 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: with Zoe Deschanel, season two is coming out very soon. 546 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 1: I just screened one of the episodes this morning. It's fantastic. 547 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: We see that becoming a hit on O T T 548 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 1: Platforms and Zoe you know, is now finishing up New Girl. 549 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 1: She's looking for the next project in her career and 550 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: we have a good marriage at the moment. I hope 551 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: we can do more with her interesting. Well, we'll have 552 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: to keep an eye on you guys and see what 553 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 1: else comes to have pipeline at. Thanks for coming and 554 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:07,479 Speaker 1: talking my pleasure, Thanks for having me. This has been 555 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: another episode of Strictly Business. Tune in next week for 556 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: another helping of scintillating conversation with media movers and shakers, 557 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: and please make sure you subscribe to the podcast to 558 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: hear future episodes. Also leave a review in Apple Podcast 559 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: let us know how we're doing.