Speaker 1: Hi Catherine, Hi Chelsea, how are you today?
Speaker 2: Doug has diarrhea lives in Canada. My friend Cynthia texted
Speaker 2: me this morning saying she felt like Doug was depressed
Speaker 2: when I left, and I said, I doubt it, and
Speaker 2: then she said, I know he really misses you. And
Speaker 2: then she goes, actually he hasn't eat his food all day,
Speaker 2: and I go, oh my god, oh my.
Speaker 3: God, he came out of me. Fuck well.
Speaker 2: At first I thought he does love me, he does
Speaker 2: love me, and then I was like, wait a second,
Speaker 2: I had food poisoning, and I was like, did he
Speaker 2: get food poisoning?
Speaker 4: Anyway?
Speaker 2: He had diaryea on her couch and on her carpet.
Speaker 2: So I was like, okay, I'll be back sooner than
Speaker 2: later to get him.
Speaker 4: Anyway.
Speaker 2: She I was like, we can replace all of those things,
Speaker 2: we can replace her houseplace. She goes, he's so high,
Speaker 2: he's got such energy, and I go, just put him
Speaker 2: outside while he's sick. He's happy to stay outside and
Speaker 2: sleep outside. He preferred so fucking hot with all that hair.
Speaker 2: And she's like, okay, but just you know, like bears
Speaker 2: come through the backyard and I was like, oh. I
Speaker 2: was like well, I mean, he'll probably find his whole family.
Speaker 4: Those are his ancestors, you know.
Speaker 5: What I mean.
Speaker 6: It's so true.
Speaker 4: He is basically a bear. He is a bear.
Speaker 2: So I don't know how long he's gonna last in Canada,
Speaker 2: but I have people.
Speaker 3: Long enough to come back to La.
Speaker 2: Well, he might not get in with the fucking way
Speaker 2: immigration is going. Who knows if they'll stop him at
Speaker 2: the border. I mean, he is black. Who knows they'll
Speaker 2: make up some.
Speaker 7: Fucking excuse, you know what I mean? There are his papers,
Speaker 7: I know, well, I do have his paperwork. Actually, ironically
Speaker 7: I could. I should probably sell that to somebody. Well,
Speaker 7: not sell it, give it to somebody. Listen to me.
Speaker 4: I would just like to say that.
Speaker 2: It's early in the morning today and I got myself
Speaker 2: a parking spot all by myself.
Speaker 4: I paid the major, I did it effectively.
Speaker 3: And it wasn't even in the normal place.
Speaker 2: It wasn't in a normal place. I parked up the street.
Speaker 2: We're at a studio. I went by my real house
Speaker 2: this morning to check on things. There's a lot of
Speaker 2: drilling going on.
Speaker 1: I was telling Brad this morning, I'm like, I don't
Speaker 1: even know what exactly's happening at the house, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Nobody asks me anymore, and nobody should. Nobody asked me
Speaker 2: what's going on with my house. If you're listening to
Speaker 2: this and you want to rent a big house in
Speaker 2: Los Angeles for a lot of money, hit me up
Speaker 2: on DMS, because yeah you could.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna rent that house out great until I make.
Speaker 2: My money back, and I'll live in Whistler or Spain
Speaker 2: or I don't know, Guantanamo Bay, you know where, whatever,
Speaker 2: whatever place welcomes me exactly.
Speaker 1: If people can rent that, if they're fans of yours
Speaker 1: or RFK Junior, I mean it's great.
Speaker 2: I just yes, this is a what is it a
Speaker 2: cautionary tale? Cautionary tale?
Speaker 4: True?
Speaker 2: I had one great house building experience and I got
Speaker 2: very confident, over confident, and then I now have another
Speaker 2: house building experience and I am will never ever build
Speaker 2: anything again.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, speaking of Trump's cabinet, we have one of Trump's
Speaker 1: favorite people.
Speaker 7: Cabinet.
Speaker 4: They shouldn'ven be called a cabinet.
Speaker 2: That's like, that's a fucking thing, that's an item you'd
Speaker 2: find in my house that doesn't work.
Speaker 4: It's not a cabinet.
Speaker 2: It's like a fucking broken toaster is his cabinet? Yeah,
Speaker 2: we have somebody who has gotten, who has had it
Speaker 2: friction with Trump on today. He's an amazing singer, songwriter,
Speaker 2: composer and legendary beauty.
Speaker 4: Please welcome Rufus Wainwright.
Speaker 2: Hi, good morning, Hello, Hello, Hi, oh oh hi, Rufus.
Speaker 4: Oh wow look at you. You're like me way early.
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, no way early.
Speaker 2: But and for a musician, no less. I mean, this
Speaker 2: is what is happening.
Speaker 6: Well, I have a fourteen year old child.
Speaker 2: Yes, I know about that, and so you have to.
Speaker 4: Wake up early to breastfeed.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I have to be on call basically twenty
Speaker 5: four to seven for any kind of horrific situation.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, I understand.
Speaker 6: Yeah. Is that better?
Speaker 4: You look very thin? You look really thin? On this
Speaker 4: Is that what you said you're going for?
Speaker 6: Well, I was more going for Marlene and Dietrich.
Speaker 2: But then we'll work well Finn and Marlene Dietrich Rufus.
Speaker 2: First of all, well, there's a lot to talk about, Yes,
Speaker 2: dream Requiem, which is what we're here to talk about.
Speaker 2: But first I wanted just to mention a couple of things.
Speaker 2: I know that the Trump campaign used your song Hallelujah,
Speaker 2: your your Leonard Cohen cover Hallelujah, And you were pissed
Speaker 2: about that, So I was curious about that too, like
Speaker 2: obviously your agents and managers or whomever get involved, right.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I mean I was.
Speaker 5: I mean I was pissed, but I think above pissed,
Speaker 5: I was more just sort of flabbergasted and completely you
Speaker 5: know shocks in the sense that just because it was also.
Speaker 6: So weird how it was used, Like it wasn't just
Speaker 6: used as.
Speaker 5: A rally, you know, ending thing where people are always
Speaker 5: shaking hands. He turned it into this sort of you know,
Speaker 5: group dance flash prayer moment of you know, seeking forgiveness, and.
Speaker 6: And that just was Yeah, it was a horrified, shockedness.
Speaker 6: And then I was pissed, and then.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm shocked and horrified. I'm first of all, I'm
Speaker 2: not Catholic or religious in any way, shape or form.
Speaker 2: I'm shocked and horrified when they use any sort of
Speaker 2: religious backdrop or there are people praying with him. I
Speaker 2: find that so offensive to real religion, Like I might have.
Speaker 5: I have a little bit of a scoop for you, though,
Speaker 5: Oh great, regarding this, I don't think I've talked about
Speaker 5: this yet, but and it's sort of out there a
Speaker 5: little bit. But so that happened right and then and
Speaker 5: then and this is before he won the election.
Speaker 6: Uh or yeah, I guess he won the election.
Speaker 8: He won.
Speaker 2: We're living in a we're living in hell. And answer
Speaker 2: your previous question, I'm in Canada right now.
Speaker 6: I'm in Canada right now for real.
Speaker 4: I mean, well, you're Canadian. I'm trying to become Canadian.
Speaker 6: Okay, are you? Are you really in Canada where.
Speaker 4: You I'm in Whistler, Yeah.
Speaker 5: Okay, okay, we're both we're both in exile and probably
Speaker 5: will remain so for a few years.
Speaker 6: But but what happened is that he won.
Speaker 5: He won the election, and then one of the first
Speaker 5: visitors that he had was Justin Trudeau, the Prime Minister
Speaker 5: of Canada, our ex prime minister, And so he went
Speaker 5: down and I'd met Justin a couple of times, you know,
Speaker 5: on grinder and I'm just kidding. But anyways, so then
Speaker 5: I got a call a few days later from Justin Trudeau,
Speaker 5: the Prime minister, telling me that he said, I guy
Speaker 5: had this funny story for you, And so I answered
Speaker 5: the phone, Yes, mister Prime minister, make me laugh. And
Speaker 5: he said that when he was down in mar A Lago,
Speaker 5: they were sitting together and at one point Hallelujah came
Speaker 5: up on the sound system in the ballroom, but it
Speaker 5: was it was Andrea Bucelli's version of Hallelujah the song,
Speaker 5: at which point Trump turned to Justin Trudeau and said,
Speaker 5: you know Rufus's version, right, and and then Justin Trudeau said, oh, yes,
Speaker 5: I know, I know Rufus's version, but you have to
Speaker 5: give Jeff Buckley some credit because he's the first person
Speaker 5: to cover the song, at which point I'm on the
Speaker 5: phone with Justin Trudeau, like, wait a minute, he brought
Speaker 5: up the Jeff Berkele like I started to get whatever.
Speaker 5: I was a bit riled internally.
Speaker 2: I also find it a bit surprising that Trump is
Speaker 2: aware of different covers of that song.
Speaker 6: I know, no, well he is.
Speaker 5: But then so then Justin said to him, yes, but
Speaker 5: you have to give Jeff Buckley some some credit, at
Speaker 5: which point Trump said, okay, well, maybe twenty minutes later,
Speaker 5: Trump walked up to Justin and said, you know, Rufus's
Speaker 5: version is really the best version, at which point Justin went, yes,
Speaker 5: it is the best.
Speaker 6: Version so so so in terms of like Hallelujah.
Speaker 5: Versions, I'm a total Trumpianda that's about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I'm god. I mean what an endorsement. Trump
Speaker 2: believes that yours is the best version of Halloween. Yeah
Speaker 2: you got that, I guess.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, No, that's the Yeah.
Speaker 5: Look, I've been seeking that for years and it's all
Speaker 5: I've ever wanted, really is to be acknowledged as the
Speaker 5: greatest singer of Hellelujah.
Speaker 6: Forget my operas, forget my children.
Speaker 2: So let's talk dream requiem, because I know that you have.
Speaker 2: Jane Fonda is going to is she narrating it? Is
Speaker 2: that the proper terminology?
Speaker 5: Yes, what it is is that I many years ago
Speaker 5: I discovered this amazing poem by Byron called Darkness, and
Speaker 5: he wrote it in eighteen fourteen, which was this year
Speaker 5: that there was this incredible insane earth not ealth quake.
Speaker 6: What's another thing that we're about to.
Speaker 9: Have economical volcano volcano okay, volcanic volcano that went off,
Speaker 9: that erupted, that went off in Southeast Asia, and the
Speaker 9: entire world was dark for a year.
Speaker 5: There was no season, and everybody thought the world was ending.
Speaker 5: It was the year that they wrote that. Mary Shelley
Speaker 5: wrote Frankenstein's it was like the most kind of gothic.
Speaker 4: Oh wow, yeah, and that was eighteen fourteen.
Speaker 5: You said, yeah, it's the most got the gear except
Speaker 5: for this year. We we know eclipsed that. But so
Speaker 5: then you wrote that poem, so as I fell in
Speaker 5: love with the point. It's all about the end of
Speaker 5: the world and it's about like ecological collapse. And then
Speaker 5: I was composing this requiem mass and I decided to
Speaker 5: put them together. And I was maybe going to compose
Speaker 5: the music to the English words, but English is crap,
Speaker 5: and unless it's like rock and roll or rap, it
Speaker 5: sounds terrible if it's sung operatically. So I quickly, you know,
Speaker 5: shifted it and and said, oh, we'll have a narrator,
Speaker 5: which in the end has turned out to be an
Speaker 5: amazing kind of trick.
Speaker 6: And I don't want to say trick.
Speaker 5: Ploy where, you know, because the premier in Paris, and
Speaker 5: we had Meryl Streep there as the narrator, and our
Speaker 5: recording is available on Warner Classics. And yeah, Jane is
Speaker 5: doing it in La. Have you heard anything about how
Speaker 5: she got the job? Tell us, well, I i'd look
Speaker 5: Dan and Dane and I have I know your friends
Speaker 5: too up? Yeah, yeah, no, I I I mean I
Speaker 5: I'd run into her over the years here and there,
Speaker 5: but we never quite you know, bonded. But we were
Speaker 5: at this I had just done the Requiem in Paris
Speaker 5: with Meryl, and we were at the Hammer Gala in
Speaker 5: La and I went there and I was with my
Speaker 5: husband and Yorn and we arrived and I saw Jane
Speaker 5: and we kind of ended up in just the same corner.
Speaker 5: We just started talking and it's and it started to click,
Speaker 5: you know, we just started to give. As they say,
Speaker 5: it's a give or jibe.
Speaker 6: I don't know. I'm so white anyways.
Speaker 2: I think I think it's jibe, but I'm also white.
Speaker 2: Who fucking knows.
Speaker 5: Okay, we were doing something cool and it was weird,
Speaker 5: but uh so we're talking. And then I said to her,
Speaker 5: and I started talking about the Dream Requiem, and I said,
Speaker 5: you know, we did it. We did it in Paris
Speaker 5: with Meryl and and actually it's coming to La. We
Speaker 5: don't have a narrator yet, but it's going to come
Speaker 5: to Disney Hall. It's with the Master Corral and and
Speaker 5: and at the end of that little speech, Jane turned
Speaker 5: to me and she said, rufus, I'm doing it. I
Speaker 5: was like, excuse me. She's like, no, I'm gonna, I
Speaker 5: will do it with you. She immediately hut herself, which
Speaker 5: I mean I was. I was overjoyed also a little shocked.
Speaker 5: And then it's just from there on. You know, we've
Speaker 5: been hanging out a lot, and she's come to a
Speaker 5: few of my shows and she's just so like when
Speaker 5: she wants something or loves something.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's very precious.
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, and so I'm just I don't know, I
Speaker 5: felt very It's been one of the great great things
Speaker 5: in my life, in the midst of all of this
Speaker 5: darkness and stuff.
Speaker 4: So when is this performance?
Speaker 5: Performance is in la It's May the fourth at Disney Hall.
Speaker 5: It's also with the Master Correll, which is probably the
Speaker 5: greatest choir in America.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I know who they are.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I know they're amazing. And look, it's something you know,
Speaker 5: I don't. I don't in any way. Look as much
Speaker 5: as Trump likes to think that he rules the world,
Speaker 5: I kind of would like to say, well, maybe Trump,
Speaker 5: you exist. Because I wrote this Death Mass and it's
Speaker 5: premiering at the perfect time.
Speaker 6: So You're just the backdrop to my music. So I'm
Speaker 6: kind of trying.
Speaker 5: To turn it around because because it is eerie, how
Speaker 5: you know, just the whole you know, the apocalyptic dark.
Speaker 6: You know, it's a perfect thing to be putting out
Speaker 6: right now. That's all I want to say.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's also you know, I was I don't know
Speaker 2: where I read this, what book. I read this in
Speaker 2: probably my favorite book, Letting Go. But it's about being like,
Speaker 2: you know, even in times of strife or when the
Speaker 2: world is a dark place, there are people who could
Speaker 2: create art and people who can thrive within the darkness
Speaker 2: and not off of the darkness. I'm not talking about
Speaker 2: like to the tech billionaires on all of that. I'm
Speaker 2: saying people who can thrive, who makes something happen even
Speaker 2: amidst all the darkness and continue to thrive.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Well, I am very much fueled, as you said, not
Speaker 5: fueled by the darkness. But I am a how can
Speaker 5: I say this? I am attuned to that sensibility I work.
Speaker 5: I've always loved opera. I've always loved you know, written
Speaker 5: ballads and very intense music.
Speaker 6: So I love so yes, artistically, I'm in.
Speaker 5: I've been a very good place. But it was funny
Speaker 5: when you bring up the tech bros. Because they have
Speaker 5: no artistic sense whatsoever. I mean, what's so kind of
Speaker 5: horrific about that whole situation is that their idea of
Speaker 5: art is like them dressed as the Mona Lisa or something,
Speaker 5: you know, with like a banana in the background. You know,
Speaker 5: they just have no aesthetic sense or anything. So they're
Speaker 5: not even I don't know, like like artistically, they cannot be.
Speaker 2: Yes, So it's up to me, right right, well artists,
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, to actually show up.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And they think they're artists. They think they're artists,
Speaker 6: they think that they're.
Speaker 4: They think they're artists though I mean they're.
Speaker 6: Clearly they think they're everything.
Speaker 4: Yeah right.
Speaker 6: They think they're sexy too, which is pretty sure. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, that's the most revolting part the the sex. The
Speaker 2: assumed sex appeal is so revolting. I mean, I can't
Speaker 2: think of anyone, any group of guys that are less
Speaker 2: fuckable than all of those guys. Talk to me about
Speaker 2: Dream Requiem, So tell me how you would. First of all,
Speaker 2: I hate this question when I'm asked how I would
Speaker 2: to describe one of my shows. But I'm gonna ask
Speaker 2: you without saying those words.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah, No.
Speaker 5: I look, I'm a big, as I said before, classical
Speaker 5: music fan, and I but the first piece that really
Speaker 5: got me going when I was thirteen was Verdi's Requiem
Speaker 5: the Composer of Verity.
Speaker 6: He wrote this amazing requiem.
Speaker 5: It's one of the great ones, and I just became
Speaker 5: obsessed with it and it sort of began my whole
Speaker 5: journey in that In that realm, it was a little
Speaker 5: freakish for my dad, especially, he's not a big opera
Speaker 5: fan to see, you know, his thirteen year old son
Speaker 5: in the corner in the dark with headphones on listening
Speaker 5: to you know, Day of Wrath and stuff like that.
Speaker 5: So I but I stuck it out, or everybody stuck
Speaker 5: it out. And now you know, I've written you know,
Speaker 5: several classical works and also pop works and all that stuff,
Speaker 5: and now I just feel like it's time to give
Speaker 5: back to that. I will say, are you Catholic at all?
Speaker 5: Or you're probably anti kit you hate?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm not anything at all.
Speaker 6: Were you brought up Catholic or.
Speaker 4: I was brought up Jewish? Actually you're brought up.
Speaker 5: Okay, sorry, Okay, there you go, but I am not anything.
Speaker 5: I'm not even baptized Catholic. I was brought up in
Speaker 5: a Catholic environment. My mother was Catholic, and I went
Speaker 5: to Catholic school. And how was that Well, you know,
Speaker 5: it wasn't great in a sense, but it was really
Speaker 5: they really ingrained it and you in the sense that
Speaker 5: I was a little shocked when I went to compose
Speaker 5: it and I was working with all of those prayers,
Speaker 5: you know, the Latin mass.
Speaker 6: Wow, just how fast.
Speaker 5: It came out, and how how it's just like wired
Speaker 5: into into me, for better or for worse, probably more
Speaker 5: for worse in a lot of ways.
Speaker 4: That's how I am with state capital those are to me.
Speaker 6: Sounds nice.
Speaker 5: So anyway, so I so I just started composing it
Speaker 5: and then.
Speaker 6: And it just came out really fast, and and it's
Speaker 6: one of these things.
Speaker 5: Where the idea came and then I so, okay, that
Speaker 5: sounds like a nice idea. I like to see to
Speaker 5: see if anybody is interested. And we asked Paris first,
Speaker 5: and then within two months there was ten commissioners, ten
Speaker 5: cities all over the world that wanted to do it.
Speaker 6: There was a real kind of.
Speaker 5: Need for it. It was right after COVID. So I
Speaker 5: think people were whatever, they were pretty.
Speaker 6: Gloomy, yeah, and.
Speaker 5: So, so I think they could relate to that. The
Speaker 5: other thing, which I don't do you know anything about
Speaker 5: the dog situation.
Speaker 4: I don't know anything about anything.
Speaker 5: Okay, well, okay, well this is this is interesting because
Speaker 5: you know the requiem is it's dedicated to two individuals.
Speaker 5: The first first one is dedicated to Verity the composer,
Speaker 5: because you know of that. But then the second dedication
Speaker 5: is to Puccini, whose most people would think is an
Speaker 5: op composer, which he is. But Puccini and I say this,
Speaker 5: and the thing used to be our little dog. We
Speaker 5: had a dog named Puccini. And actually within the poem
Speaker 5: Byron's poem there's Byron adored Dogs, and then the poem
Speaker 5: there's a dog that dies in the middle of the poem.
Speaker 5: It's it's kind of the most touching moment of the
Speaker 5: of the piece, or one of one of the many
Speaker 5: touching moments.
Speaker 6: And and so and we.
Speaker 5: My husband and I, we had a little dog named Puccini,
Speaker 5: and so we dedicated it also to the to the
Speaker 5: little dog. So yeah, so so for there's a big
Speaker 5: dog element to the to the piece as well for
Speaker 5: dog lovers.
Speaker 6: So if you hate opera, but it's.
Speaker 4: A whole opera, right, it's not just one piece.
Speaker 6: No, it's why it's one piece.
Speaker 4: It's one only one piece.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it's as Yeah, it's a mass and it
Speaker 5: starts with some of the poem and then it goes
Speaker 5: into the into the mass, like the choir sings all
Speaker 5: the religious mass stuff and then the poem is is
Speaker 5: recited by the narrator and at a certain point they intertwined.
Speaker 5: But it's it's seventy five minutes, like there's no intermission
Speaker 5: or any thing. It's just there. You're in and your
Speaker 5: out and yeah, so it's.
Speaker 6: I'm very excited about it.
Speaker 5: I mean I've been fighting years and years and years
Speaker 5: to make it into you know, the classical world, and
Speaker 5: it seems like I've done it with this piece of music,
Speaker 5: which is very exciting. Of course, right at the time
Speaker 5: that I did that, I wrote a musical in London
Speaker 5: called Opening Night, which totally flops. So so I kind
Speaker 5: of the Broadway world kind of or the West End
Speaker 5: world in London kind of, you know, gave me the boot, right,
Speaker 5: as you know, the classical world opens, So it's always
Speaker 5: it's been an interesting journey.
Speaker 6: You always gotta have the door shut down on you
Speaker 6: at some point.
Speaker 2: Well, a door shut down on you right before a
Speaker 2: different door opens.
Speaker 6: Yeah, there you go. Yeah, you can never have just
Speaker 6: the door open.
Speaker 2: And it's all thattliche because or well an adage I said,
Speaker 2: I suppose because it's true. I mean, that does happen.
Speaker 2: So talk to me about it artistically. How that how
Speaker 2: that makes you feel, like when you are rejected and
Speaker 2: then you are accepted into a different world, Like, how
Speaker 2: do you balance those emotions?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 5: No, I look when I did the musical Opening Night,
Speaker 5: which which by the way, we did record and we're
Speaker 5: releasing it the soundtrack album, and it's the songs are great,
Speaker 5: and I think the piece was actually kind of great.
Speaker 5: It was just a little out there for it was
Speaker 5: based on the John Cassavetti's movie Opening Night. Anyways, So
Speaker 5: I was so depressed when that whole thing collapsed and
Speaker 5: to the point where you know, I had to go
Speaker 5: on medication and stuff like.
Speaker 6: It was very it really, it was pretty dark.
Speaker 5: I mean, there was a lot of other things happening,
Speaker 5: but that wast you know, kind of took me down.
Speaker 4: And has that happened to you before professionally creatively.
Speaker 5: It's happened to me once before. But but I but
Speaker 5: I didn't. I didn't kind of seek treatment for it.
Speaker 5: I was I just sort of nut white knuckled it
Speaker 5: through the whole thing. But this time I just needed
Speaker 5: a little bit of help and and I got it,
Speaker 5: and it was great, you know, I was able to
Speaker 5: come back. But right as that was happening, you know,
Speaker 5: the Requim was premiering in Paris, and I had you know,
Speaker 5: Meryl Streep there sitting next to me, listening to it
Speaker 5: for the first time, and I was able to appreciate
Speaker 5: how special the whole thing was and how lucky I
Speaker 5: was to be in this situation.
Speaker 6: But yes, there was this gnawing sort.
Speaker 5: Of sense which sort of limited me in my joy
Speaker 5: at the time of my greatest triumph.
Speaker 2: Right, So, but let's talk about that, because I think
Speaker 2: that is very relatable to you know, not only people
Speaker 2: in the industry, but I think people you know a
Speaker 2: lot of things. You get good news or you get
Speaker 2: bad news, and it's hard to kind of pick yourself
Speaker 2: up from that.
Speaker 4: And like, when you.
Speaker 2: Look back at that time, do you think that there
Speaker 2: was anything you would have done differently or that you
Speaker 2: will do differently in the future if something like that
Speaker 2: were to happen again.
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, look, I'm speaking of religions and stuff.
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't want to do it, but I guess,
Speaker 5: you know, you have to be sort of Buddhist about
Speaker 5: it and say, you know, you have to let go
Speaker 5: of that attachment and that kind of idea of being
Speaker 5: you know, fulfilled.
Speaker 6: By your your ego or whatever. And so that's probably
Speaker 6: the wise way to do.
Speaker 5: It, is just to not try to feel nothing a
Speaker 5: little bit in a sense or just being you know,
Speaker 5: very low key about it.
Speaker 6: But you know, look, then I wrote.
Speaker 5: Ten songs in my depths, in the depths of my
Speaker 5: sadness that I'm now going to put on a pop record,
Speaker 5: and and so it's also for an art I think
Speaker 5: that's actually more what I struggle with. It's just and
Speaker 5: that I've realized now in my fifties, is that there
Speaker 5: is this kind of machine that I've created where you know,
Speaker 5: I get depressed and then I write songs and then
Speaker 5: I feel better. But then I got to get depressed
Speaker 5: or to write a song, and then in order you know,
Speaker 5: it's this cycle that that you know, certainly creates a
Speaker 5: lot of material and but it is a little bit
Speaker 5: diabolical at times.
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm sure, I'm sure it is. I mean, that's
Speaker 2: the life of an artist typically, right.
Speaker 6: And it's a good I mean, I think we're fortunate.
Speaker 5: But but but when I see people, young people, especially
Speaker 5: when they're like, oh, I want to be an artist,
Speaker 5: and you know, my first.
Speaker 6: Comment will usually say, well, you're not gonna you can't.
Speaker 6: You can't tell me you want to be an artist.
Speaker 6: You have to be an.
Speaker 5: Artist, like like you just you are an artist and
Speaker 5: good luck.
Speaker 6: Yeah, not easy, it's not easy.
Speaker 2: No, it's not like anyone really takes care of you
Speaker 2: as an artist emotionally. And I'm not sure in what
Speaker 2: world you are taking care of emotionally unless it's by
Speaker 2: your spouse or you know, family. But at a certain point,
Speaker 2: when you go through all of the highs and lows
Speaker 2: of having any career, a public career, also, you start
Speaker 2: to learn to rely on yourself for your emotional well being.
Speaker 2: You're like, no one can help me with this. Yes,
Speaker 2: you can talk to a therapist, and of course you can,
Speaker 2: you know, go on metation in like incremental times or
Speaker 2: whenever you need it whatever, but no one takes care
Speaker 2: of you. And like I think as an artist, there's
Speaker 2: this attitude at least I had this attitude younger, like
Speaker 2: when things didn't go right, like you fix it?
Speaker 6: You do?
Speaker 4: Do you do it?
Speaker 2: And like, yes, well that can be many people's responsibilities
Speaker 2: in your life. You actually just have to take the
Speaker 2: emotional burden of everything. It's your name on it, it's
Speaker 2: your failure or success, and then it's your pressure.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and then it's and then in the end it's
Speaker 5: your glory when it comes to fruition. But at that
Speaker 5: glorious moment, there's always a little bit of there's always
Speaker 5: a chink in the armor. Oh it's uh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 5: which is it's the way it is.
Speaker 2: It would be great to figure out a way and
Speaker 2: I'm good at this sometimes, but not full proof. To
Speaker 2: welcome the failure, to welcome the pain, you know, like
Speaker 2: bring it on, because every time you have a failure,
Speaker 2: we all know that something a rainbow is around the corner,
Speaker 2: like something happens.
Speaker 5: Well, I mean I have a little thing to do
Speaker 5: with that, which I kind of relate to Yang and
Speaker 5: Yang where anytime I'm happy anytime I'm somewhat euphoric, I
Speaker 5: just always say, look, I'm going to take a little
Speaker 5: piece of this and hide it somewhere so that when
Speaker 5: I'm in the dark, I can, you know, pull it
Speaker 5: out and use it as a kind of flashlight.
Speaker 6: So I saw it, but I think it's something you
Speaker 6: have to cognitively.
Speaker 4: Do and practice.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: All right, we're going to take a break and we'll
Speaker 2: be right back with Rufus Wainwright.
Speaker 1: If you'd like advice from Chelsea, write into us at
Speaker 1: Dear Chelsea Podcast at gmail dot com. We'd love to
Speaker 1: hear your questions for any juicy story you'd like advice on.
Speaker 1: This week, we're specifically looking for questions about surrogacy and
Speaker 1: fertility issues, So if you've gone through IVF or are
Speaker 1: planning to, please write in at Dear Chelsea podcast at
Speaker 1: gmail dot com.
Speaker 4: And we're back with Rufus Wainwright.
Speaker 9: Hi.
Speaker 2: Okay, we're going to take some callers. Rufus, Are you down?
Speaker 2: Are you ready to Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, Well, before we get to advice, Rufus, I
Speaker 1: have to tell you that my husband, who's the engineer here,
Speaker 1: who was floating around here on the zoom.
Speaker 3: You are actually the reason that we met. Oh really,
Speaker 3: in two thousand and five, I went to go see
Speaker 3: your concert at Ravina.
Speaker 6: Oh wow, August in two thousand and.
Speaker 1: Five, and I was going with a friend. We met
Speaker 1: at the friend's house ahead of time, and who should
Speaker 1: walk out but this streamy, tall guy. And here we
Speaker 1: are twenty years later.
Speaker 6: Oh that's so sweet, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful.
Speaker 2: I saw you Rufus at some small place in Santa
Speaker 2: Monica a few years ago, maybe not a few, maybe ten.
Speaker 2: It was really fun though. It was only like there's
Speaker 2: a small room with like one hundred people and everyone
Speaker 2: was getting down.
Speaker 6: It was I think it was it was mccabes or something.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, yes it was.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Those are those are those are some Those are great shows.
Speaker 6: Those are fun shows.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 1: Well, our first question is just an email, not a call.
Speaker 3: So this question comes from Tina. Subject line is son's
Speaker 3: sexual preference.
Speaker 1: You're Chelsea. I've been a fan of your podcast for
Speaker 1: a number of years. I love what you stand for
Speaker 1: and the advice that you give on your podcast. I
Speaker 1: listen every morning when I walk my dog before work.
Speaker 3: I'm a forty seven year old.
Speaker 1: Single mom with three children who are all grown. I
Speaker 1: like to think of myself as very open minded and
Speaker 1: progressive when it comes to most things. I've always made
Speaker 1: it very clear to my children that whatever road they
Speaker 1: choose and their sexuality is their choice and free from judgment.
Speaker 3: And then this happened.
Speaker 1: My twenty one year old son told me tonight that
Speaker 1: he's dating a trans person, a woman who has been
Speaker 1: transitioning to be a man. I maintained complete composure and
Speaker 1: acted cool, but inside I was really just feeling a
Speaker 1: little bit of turmoil.
Speaker 4: I love that honesty. I maintained composure.
Speaker 1: Yes, my son is the most beautiful, sweet, kind and
Speaker 1: best person ever, and all I want for him is
Speaker 1: to be happy. I've always known or suspected that he
Speaker 1: was gay or otherwise, but I guess I'm just scared
Speaker 1: for him, but at the same time so proud of
Speaker 1: him for just love having another human, regardless of their
Speaker 1: sexual identity or preference.
Speaker 3: I guess I'm asking for help.
Speaker 1: On navigating through our extended family, some of which, including
Speaker 1: my sister and her husband, are very conservative. My mama
Speaker 1: bear instincts are out, and I think I'm feeling more
Speaker 1: protective than judgmental for him, but also feeling a little.
Speaker 3: Bit confused of my own feelings about the situation. Many thanks, Tina.
Speaker 2: I think this is easy, Tina, Like, I don't think
Speaker 2: you have to make any proclamations or announcements to your family,
Speaker 2: like your extended family, like first of all, get to
Speaker 2: know your son's new love interest and spend time with them,
Speaker 2: and like and and just keep opening your heart and
Speaker 2: your mind because you're going to learn lots of things
Speaker 2: that you didn't know about, and that's going to really
Speaker 2: normalize the situation. And you kind of calling attention to
Speaker 2: it too, even though I understand you're being a protective
Speaker 2: mama bear because I'm a mother and I know what
Speaker 2: that feels like I'm more of a father, But like
Speaker 2: putting an exclamation point on everything, I don't think is helpful.
Speaker 2: Like I think you should just act with grace and normalcy,
Speaker 2: like this is normal when I meet the person, whether
Speaker 2: or not they realize that their trans or not is
Speaker 2: inconsequential to you, Like that's not something that you need to.
Speaker 4: Like preface or tell them before.
Speaker 2: Let them deal with the situation and when it comes around,
Speaker 2: I would suggest just going I didn't think that was
Speaker 2: information that was necessary because you're protecting by telling your
Speaker 2: sister and her husband, who are more conservative, you're protecting them.
Speaker 4: You're not protecting your son.
Speaker 2: You're protecting their feelings and making sure they have all
Speaker 2: the cards. They don't need all the cards. This isn't
Speaker 2: their love life. This is your son's love life. So
Speaker 2: all you can do is show up for him in
Speaker 2: a really responsible and present way.
Speaker 4: Rufus, what do you think?
Speaker 6: Well, you know, I wanted to.
Speaker 5: I totally agree with what you're saying, but I also
Speaker 5: want to sort of praise her for even being you know,
Speaker 5: open to stuff, because my mother might do. This was
Speaker 5: back in the eighties when she found out I was gay.
Speaker 5: She had a you know, a cigarette in one hen
Speaker 5: and a scotch and the other and she said, rufus,
Speaker 5: don't tell me something I don't want to hear. Oh,
Speaker 5: So I was, you know, that was that was so
Speaker 5: I'm someone who, you know, whenever I hear a parent
Speaker 5: who's you know, really trying to do the right thing,
Speaker 5: it's so important and should be really really celebrated because
Speaker 5: unfortunately still, I you know, I just hear these horror
Speaker 5: stories with parents who are just out of their mind,
Speaker 5: you know, when this stuff comes up. And so you're
Speaker 5: being the dad, I'm being the mom.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well perfect, we're perfectly, we're parenting perfectly. I also
Speaker 2: think like open, open, open, Just keep your mind open,
Speaker 2: like you're going to learn things. You're going to be
Speaker 2: surprised by the things you learn, and just be open
Speaker 2: hearted and open minded.
Speaker 6: Be proud of yourself for being open.
Speaker 2: Yeah, be proud of yourself, and just keep thinking like,
Speaker 2: you know, I understand the protective aspect, but like we're
Speaker 2: not there yet.
Speaker 4: You don't have to.
Speaker 2: Don't worry about your son's Your son's happiness is paramount
Speaker 2: to anything else.
Speaker 4: Like, just be open to that and open to understanding his.
Speaker 2: World, and that way, you're going to set the foundation
Speaker 2: for him to be always comfortable coming to you, talking
Speaker 2: to you about these things.
Speaker 9: Talk.
Speaker 2: You knew about these issues and you want to just
Speaker 2: you know, the last thing you want to be is
Speaker 2: shut out from any of that. So yes, just move
Speaker 2: forward with grace and open heartedness.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I will also say, just like a tiny asterisk,
Speaker 1: I think she did a really good job just like
Speaker 1: containing any fear or confusing that she might imposing herself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, composing herself.
Speaker 1: But one tiny astreiss Tina is just on the sexual
Speaker 1: preference language.
Speaker 3: You know, nowadays we say more.
Speaker 1: Like sexual orientation, because it really is part of somebody's identity,
Speaker 1: not a choice really that they're making. And I think
Speaker 1: once you get to know this person, you know, I
Speaker 1: think the only scary thing is having not ever met
Speaker 1: a trans person. Once you get to know them, you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: they're just a person, you know, they just act like
Speaker 1: everybody else.
Speaker 5: They're just That was a and a sort of end
Speaker 5: of my mother's story, which is kind of nice and
Speaker 5: maybe it softens it a bit, as you know. When
Speaker 5: she was when I finally did come out to her,
Speaker 5: we were in Paris and she went to Notre Dame
Speaker 5: Cathedral and.
Speaker 6: She was brought up cast.
Speaker 5: So she went and she prayed, and she claims that
Speaker 5: she got a message from somewhere that says, you know,
Speaker 5: Rufus is like any other person.
Speaker 6: You just have to treat him like any other person.
Speaker 5: And it is that message I think that comes out
Speaker 5: eventually the world's as people.
Speaker 6: And that's it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, with that message that needs to be transmitted to
Speaker 2: the entire world.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, that a human being is a human being,
Speaker 4: regardless of anything else.
Speaker 6: Yes.
Speaker 1: Well, our next question comes from Amber. Amber says, Dear Chelsea,
Speaker 1: I met someone in the coolest way. We met in
Speaker 1: a hot tub in Michigan. I live in Washington and
Speaker 1: he lives in New York. He's my best friend and
Speaker 1: he totally gets me. I never thought i'd meet someone
Speaker 1: like him. I know he is the one. I have
Speaker 1: a great career in Washington and a fantastic community and friends.
Speaker 1: He has two kiddos and not the best job prospects
Speaker 1: where he lives. I'm so torn because I love my life,
Speaker 1: but I also love him. What do I do? It's
Speaker 1: important to know. I'm turning forty this year and never
Speaker 1: been married. I want to marry this man hopeless in Washington, Amber.
Speaker 2: Hi, Amber, this is Rufus Wainwright, our special guest today.
Speaker 8: Hi.
Speaker 10: That's so cool.
Speaker 2: Okay, So you fell in love in a hot tub
Speaker 2: in Michigan. You don't want to leave Washington because your.
Speaker 4: Whole life is there. Yeah? And what state is he in?
Speaker 10: He's in New York?
Speaker 4: Oh, Okay, so you'd have to move to New York.
Speaker 4: What part of New York.
Speaker 10: Like rural northern New York like close to the Canadian border.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, well that is a pickle because we're not
Speaker 2: talking about any major city here.
Speaker 4: Yikes.
Speaker 2: I mean that could be good to be close to
Speaker 2: the border for other reasons.
Speaker 6: How far is it from Montreal?
Speaker 10: Well, we actually went to Toronto, like last month.
Speaker 6: Oh oh was there Toronto? Okay?
Speaker 10: Okay, yeah, like he drove, he drove like four hours
Speaker 10: to Toronto and then I.
Speaker 6: Saw four hours to Toronto. Okay, that is that is far?
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean listen, if you're in love and you know
Speaker 2: it and you feel it and you're forty and you're
Speaker 2: ready to take a plunge for somebody, then you gotta
Speaker 2: do what you got to do. I wouldn't want to
Speaker 2: move there, but I'm not in love with anyone that
Speaker 2: lives there.
Speaker 10: That is so true. But like you know, I have
Speaker 10: like this whole community here. I bought a house, my
Speaker 10: friends are here, my job is here. Although well I
Speaker 10: have a job in a few months, I don't know
Speaker 10: because it's grant funded.
Speaker 4: Lovely sure.
Speaker 1: And now I assume that like he can't move because
Speaker 1: of the kids, right, like a custody situation.
Speaker 4: How old are the kids?
Speaker 10: Eleven and two?
Speaker 4: Uh two?
Speaker 10: Well?
Speaker 4: That that's another doozy. You're gonna raise a two year
Speaker 4: old with him?
Speaker 10: I mean I used to work with kids. I love kids.
Speaker 10: I just I don't want kids. And then he doesn't
Speaker 10: want anymore. He's had of p stectomy. It's fantastic, Like
Speaker 10: I don't have to worry about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he sounds like a good, good option minus the legitigo.
Speaker 5: Are you interested in and started being in a child's
Speaker 5: life and in the major waven though it's not your own?
Speaker 6: Is that interest you or totally?
Speaker 10: I have a lot of with kids, and I love
Speaker 10: their kids and I love being like the best friends auntie,
Speaker 10: you know, but I don't want to be their mom.
Speaker 10: They have moms.
Speaker 4: They're good.
Speaker 2: Okay, So if you lose your job in a couple
Speaker 2: of months, say that happens, you know, I hope it
Speaker 2: doesn't happen. But say that does happen, Does that would
Speaker 2: that make it easier.
Speaker 4: For you to move to New York?
Speaker 9: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I mean it would.
Speaker 10: It's just I think it's not even more, not even
Speaker 10: about the job or the location. It's just when you're
Speaker 10: at my age, it's harder to you know, make friends
Speaker 10: and build this community. And I have like built this
Speaker 10: amazing friendship in a community of people here, and it's
Speaker 10: taken a while to build that, right, and then you
Speaker 10: go to rural New York and you don't know anybody,
Speaker 10: it's going to be really hard to make those friendships.
Speaker 10: But also he's like my best friend, so there's that,
Speaker 10: and I could always visit and fly and I have
Speaker 10: that ability.
Speaker 4: And you can't just keep it long distance. For the
Speaker 4: time being.
Speaker 10: We are, Yeah, we're making plans. We're seeing each other
Speaker 10: like every other month or so. We talk every night,
Speaker 10: and we've kind of built like little things that are
Speaker 10: special to us for being a long distance so I could.
Speaker 10: I told him, I said I could do this for
Speaker 10: about a year. But then that's it. I'm done.
Speaker 4: What do you when you say you built little things?
Speaker 4: What does that mean? Like, what's an example of built
Speaker 4: little things?
Speaker 10: Yeah, so, like every morning I send him a picture
Speaker 10: of what I'm wearing to work that day, just like
Speaker 10: every day, I.
Speaker 4: Always your dick pic. It was our fun actually, but
Speaker 4: only from sometimes.
Speaker 10: I've never wanted them before actually, but now I'm.
Speaker 2: Like, oh, I'm still waiting to meet the guy that
Speaker 2: makes me want to see a dick pick.
Speaker 10: So I never I never thought I would be that
Speaker 10: way either, Chelsea, seriously, but he's it.
Speaker 3: Is you are in love.
Speaker 5: Is there a way for you to go there for
Speaker 5: like two months or three months, like an extended vacation
Speaker 5: so you have a sort of a sense of what
Speaker 5: a long just being there over like a week is,
Speaker 5: Like I wish.
Speaker 10: I'm gonna The nice thing is I'm actually going to
Speaker 10: go next month to like see where he lives and
Speaker 10: see the neighborhood and just see what it would be
Speaker 10: like for like the weekend. Because of my job, I'm
Speaker 10: a program director and they need me in the office
Speaker 10: to handle my staff. It'd cool if I had like
Speaker 10: a remote job and could kind of be bi coastal.
Speaker 2: Well, I think that you should definitely a if you're
Speaker 2: okay with this for a year, great, take a year,
Speaker 2: Take a year, go see his neighborhood, and the next
Speaker 2: time you're going there and spend the weekend there. But
Speaker 2: you have to plan a time where you're going to
Speaker 2: spend a longer duration of time there in this year
Speaker 2: that you're talking about, And if you do lose your job,
Speaker 2: then that opens you up to get a job where
Speaker 2: you can be by coastal.
Speaker 4: So then you can have the best of both worlds.
Speaker 2: Because is there a situation where you would keep your
Speaker 2: house in Washington and then also kind of go back
Speaker 2: and forth if you had a by coastal job.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's what you mean, and right, Yeah, I think.
Speaker 10: I could totally manage that. I have a dog, but
Speaker 10: I have a place where she could go that she loves,
Speaker 10: so like I could, I could make it work for
Speaker 10: a couple of years if I wanted to.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's what you should do.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't make any rash decisions just yet, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean.
Speaker 4: Just start spending time there.
Speaker 2: Spend as much time there as you can so you
Speaker 2: can really get a feel for the place and see
Speaker 2: if that excites you, Like, are you going to be
Speaker 2: okay living there? Hopefully you can just be by coastal
Speaker 2: because I think so many long distance relationships are successful
Speaker 2: because of the distance. I know, we all want to
Speaker 2: jump into each other's arms and everyone wants to shack up,
Speaker 2: but it's also there's something to be said for missing
Speaker 2: each other, for keeping the fire burning, you know, for
Speaker 2: not living with somebody all the time and getting used
Speaker 2: to all their shit and them throwing wet towels on
Speaker 2: the fucking dry bed. All of that stuff, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, takes kind of the romance out us and.
Speaker 6: Start to resent their dick pics.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're going to start to resent his dick pics.
Speaker 2: But because how many how many months have you guys
Speaker 2: been seeing each other now as we speak.
Speaker 10: So that's it's complicated because I've known him for a
Speaker 10: year and but when we've been talking and seeing each other,
Speaker 10: but we've kind of like made it official like last
Speaker 10: month sometime.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, so give it some more time. Please just
Speaker 2: be smart about it. You're forty years old, You're not
Speaker 2: gonna I just want you to look at that community
Speaker 2: that you built, you know, in Washington, like as a
Speaker 2: very sacred thing.
Speaker 4: Like a lot of people yearn for that. A lot
Speaker 4: of people don't have that.
Speaker 2: So I really want you to make sure you like
Speaker 2: that's more valuable, in my opinion, in your life than
Speaker 2: anything or any love affair.
Speaker 4: That is your community and that is your group.
Speaker 2: So just be very respectful of that and don't toss
Speaker 2: it away lightly.
Speaker 10: Oh no, I wouldn't. Yeah, No, I have been so
Speaker 10: lucky and blessed with my friendships and the friends that
Speaker 10: I have, They've they've really stepped up, Like I've had
Speaker 10: surgeries and they've stepped up to help with my dog
Speaker 10: and me and just I just feel so lucky to
Speaker 10: have what I have here. And that's why it's not
Speaker 10: so easy as it might be for some people to
Speaker 10: be like, oh, it's not a big deal, I'll just go,
Speaker 10: I'll just move. And it's like I have everything here,
Speaker 10: you know.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well just keep that in mind with everything, right, Like,
Speaker 2: put that at the top of your list. That is
Speaker 2: at the top of your list. Even your love affair
Speaker 2: is number two. Yeah, so remember that.
Speaker 10: I will. Yeah, No, that's super helpful to hear. I
Speaker 10: really appreciate it because I've been really stuck. But I
Speaker 10: will say, Chelsea, you are the reason I'm not married.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you. I appreciate that kind of feedback.
Speaker 6: Oh.
Speaker 10: Like I always thought when I was like in my twenties,
Speaker 10: I had to you know, get married and let a
Speaker 10: man take care of me. And I realized now I'm like,
Speaker 10: I take care of myself. I can pay my own bills,
Speaker 10: and I can buy my own house, my own car,
Speaker 10: and I can be the breadwinner.
Speaker 2: Yeah, rufus and I were just talking before you came
Speaker 2: on about taking care of ourselves emotionally as artists, right,
Speaker 2: And I think this is also a good kind of
Speaker 2: point of interest to talk about, is.
Speaker 4: That women are We're all.
Speaker 2: Able to take care of ourselves in every very possible way,
Speaker 2: yet we're always looking for someone to lean on for
Speaker 2: whether it's financially or emotionally or spiritually, like we want
Speaker 2: someone who knows more than we do or that we
Speaker 2: can go to when we have the capabilities within us
Speaker 2: to take care of ourselves in every way. So I
Speaker 2: think that's it's a great reminder, and I think a
Speaker 2: lot of women who are listening today are going to
Speaker 2: respond to that and think about are they taking care
Speaker 2: of themselves?
Speaker 4: Have they built a life that they want for themselves?
Speaker 4: Because we all have the ability to do that.
Speaker 2: It's about going to a place that you love, you know,
Speaker 2: building your community, building your friendships.
Speaker 4: That does take time.
Speaker 2: It doesn't happen instantly, not for everyone anyway.
Speaker 4: And certainly I'm sure not for you. Right. Did it
Speaker 4: happen right away or did it take time?
Speaker 10: I definitely like took time where I realized, like, oh
Speaker 10: I can buy a house, I can I can do
Speaker 10: it on my own. And I phenomenon since I was
Speaker 10: like sixteen, So it took a while to like figure
Speaker 10: out that I didn't need a man to like rescue me,
Speaker 10: that I could just rescue myself and I can do
Speaker 10: it all and it will be fine. And it's been great.
Speaker 10: I love my life, like I said, you know, and
Speaker 10: I don't need someone to pay my bills because I
Speaker 10: can pay them, you know. I can do it all
Speaker 10: and I don't need anybody else. But it's the it'd
Speaker 10: be nice to have someone by my side. Yes, I
Speaker 10: don't need anybody.
Speaker 4: Great.
Speaker 10: It's just like having that best friend that's just walking
Speaker 10: alongside you in life.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and they can walk alongside you, you know, across
Speaker 2: the country. It's not like you're across the world for
Speaker 2: the time being anyway. So right, you know, walk just
Speaker 2: picture each other walking, Picture him and you walking towards
Speaker 2: each other at a very slow pace.
Speaker 4: I love it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Okay, well that sounds like you've got a plan.
Speaker 2: You're gonna wait a little bit, You're gonna wait a year,
Speaker 2: figure it out, spend some.
Speaker 4: More time there, and we're in agreement. We're all in
Speaker 4: a cord.
Speaker 2: Okayyy Okay, great, love it.
Speaker 4: Thanks for calling him.
Speaker 10: Thank you, you want to have a good day. Bye.
Speaker 2: Well, she was probably the most sensible person that we've
Speaker 2: had call in for advice ever.
Speaker 5: Yes, An, FYI I want someone to pay my bills.
Speaker 2: I know I'm at the point where I would also
Speaker 2: like that too, rufus. Let's fucking be honest. I've been
Speaker 2: paying my bills and a lot of other people's bills
Speaker 2: for a really fucking long time, and I would like
Speaker 2: to commingle funds with another very wealthy person.
Speaker 3: Well, our next caller is Katie. Katie is thirty five.
Speaker 3: She says, you're Chelsea.
Speaker 1: I know I'm not the only one in this situation,
Speaker 1: but it sure feels that way sometimes. I have one sibling,
Speaker 1: my twin brother, who's married and they've blessed me with
Speaker 1: a nephew and a little niece, so that relationship factors
Speaker 1: into my question. Because it's just my brother and I.
Speaker 1: I haven't spoken to my mom or dad. He's more
Speaker 1: just collateral damage since I can't get to him without
Speaker 1: her being a part of it. Since November twenty twenty one,
Speaker 1: my relationship with my mom has been complicated for a
Speaker 1: long time, but the final straw was how she interfered
Speaker 1: with my relationship with the love of my life and
Speaker 1: interracial relationship she knows fully accepted.
Speaker 3: We've since split for.
Speaker 1: Other reasons, but it doesn't change how she acted. After
Speaker 1: giving her too many chances, I finally cut contact, and honestly,
Speaker 1: my life has been better for it. Here's the problem.
Speaker 1: She just turned seventy, and I know time isn't infinite.
Speaker 1: I feel at peace. Was staying no contact with the
Speaker 1: idea of getting that call one day where it's too
Speaker 1: late makes me wonder while I regret not trying, am
Speaker 1: I just grieving the mother I wish I had? Or
Speaker 1: should I make some sort of move before it's too late?
Speaker 1: Or is this just one of those painful realities you
Speaker 1: have to sit with. Would love to hear your take, Katie.
Speaker 2: Hi, this is Rufus Wainwright, our special guest today. First
Speaker 2: of all, I find that kind of behavior, like any
Speaker 2: sort of racist, misogynist kind of anything that falls under
Speaker 2: that umbrella, to be kind of unforgivable. You can learn
Speaker 2: and make mistakes and come back that and that's fine,
Speaker 2: But if that's just the way you're going to be,
Speaker 2: and that's your attitude, so I think that what you
Speaker 2: could do to just get your feelings down on paper
Speaker 2: is to write, like, now that you're not in the relation,
Speaker 2: should ship to.
Speaker 4: Let her know? Does she know that you're not in
Speaker 4: the relationship anymore?
Speaker 6: Yeah, she did.
Speaker 3: My brother let them know.
Speaker 8: But a little bit of a plot twist, we have
Speaker 8: gotten back together, so it's a.
Speaker 4: Little still the issue.
Speaker 10: Oh okay, great, Yeah, which is great for me. Yeah.
Speaker 8: I mean, I'm so happy and my brother and his
Speaker 8: family are really supportive of us, and so, you know,
Speaker 8: I'm just I don't know, I just feel like I'm
Speaker 8: in this weird I was going along fine and then
Speaker 8: all of a sudden, it was like I just when
Speaker 8: she turned seventy, I was just like, oh my god,
Speaker 8: I had this weird pressure, like I need to do something.
Speaker 8: I don't know, But I'm so curious what you think
Speaker 8: about if it's okay to just stay. I mean, if
Speaker 8: I had it my way, I would just continue the
Speaker 8: way I've been continuing. It's been really good for me
Speaker 8: to have no contact. But I'm like, am I missing
Speaker 8: an opportunity for growth here?
Speaker 2: I think you have an opportunity to write down how
Speaker 2: that made you feel, and to write down kind of
Speaker 2: like now that you're looking back at the situation, regardless
Speaker 2: that you got back together, that's great.
Speaker 4: Good for you.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you guys worked it out. But just pond
Speaker 2: reflection now that you've had time. How long has it
Speaker 2: been since you you said November twenty twenty one, right,
Speaker 2: so that's been enough years to have a reflection. I'm
Speaker 2: sure she's had some thoughts about it too, So I
Speaker 2: think it'd be nice to write a letter, like send
Speaker 2: her an email or a written letter however you see fit,
Speaker 2: just expressing how that made you feel, how your own
Speaker 2: mother could turn against you based on the color of
Speaker 2: someone's skin, not in a vitriolic way, but just in
Speaker 2: a confounded way.
Speaker 4: Like you were my mother.
Speaker 2: You were supposed to love me unconditionally for the rest
Speaker 2: of my life and support me and guide me. And
Speaker 2: to find out that my mother had these feelings about
Speaker 2: someone makes me question everything I was raised with. You know,
Speaker 2: this makes me question the kind of person I am.
Speaker 2: I believed in you, I believed in you.
Speaker 4: And Dad, and the fact that.
Speaker 2: This issue in this day and age, is keeping you
Speaker 2: from me, like however you want to frame it, but
Speaker 2: like use that as a kind of measuring stick to
Speaker 2: really just get all of your thoughts out so that
Speaker 2: they're not weighing on you so much, and put it
Speaker 2: over to her, send her an email with no expectations.
Speaker 8: Okay, but yeah, I mean you hit the nail on
Speaker 8: the head as far as my feelings about Yeah, like
Speaker 8: I have mommy issues, but like as an adult, I
Speaker 8: feel like it's very it was so jarring when that
Speaker 8: all happened.
Speaker 2: And yeah, and also to maybe to posit a question
Speaker 2: like I would also love to understand how you can
Speaker 2: do you still feel this way? Do you really feel
Speaker 2: differently about your daughter? Like, help me understand how you
Speaker 2: were raised and what you were made to believe, so
Speaker 2: that I can gain a better understanding of where you
Speaker 2: are right now. Throw her some questions that she can
Speaker 2: actually have to answer for herself, and then she's really
Speaker 2: gonna have to contemplate how do I explain feeling this way?
Speaker 6: Okay?
Speaker 4: I love that advice.
Speaker 8: It seems so on the nose to like write a
Speaker 8: letter and that's usually how you know. I but that
Speaker 8: makes a lot of sense, and I think it would
Speaker 8: get I think there's some leftover feelings that have come
Speaker 8: to the surface and I really like that idea of
Speaker 8: just writing it down. I don't even need to send
Speaker 8: it to her, but at least having yeah, you know,
Speaker 8: hitting it on paper.
Speaker 4: I really like that idea. Put it on paper.
Speaker 2: And if you do send it to her then and
Speaker 2: then and you never hear back from her, then that's
Speaker 2: your answer. And if you do and you never know,
Speaker 2: you never know when people in their old age what
Speaker 2: kind of like realizations they come to and and places
Speaker 2: that they go to. You might be surprised, but don't
Speaker 2: expect anything. Just just try to exhaust what's inside of
Speaker 2: you with relation to losing your mom in the way
Speaker 2: that you have, because it's kind of unforgivable, you know,
Speaker 2: like that is really hurtful.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I would just say that. And this is more
Speaker 6: for way down the line from now. You're obviously a young,
Speaker 6: young person who leaves compared to me, so there's you've
Speaker 6: got some time on your hands, which is great, but
Speaker 6: but it's.
Speaker 4: One hundred and seven by the way.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I'm a dead composer. So anyways, but I
Speaker 5: you know, I have a lot of friends who are
Speaker 5: and I'm you know, fifty one to admit it, but
Speaker 5: I have friends who are older now in my age,
Speaker 5: and who who are still who have not spoken to
Speaker 5: their parents in many, many years. And there's a distinct
Speaker 5: difference between those who eventually and this is not in
Speaker 5: terms they never got in touch with their parents again,
Speaker 5: you know, like it was over.
Speaker 6: Like if that happens.
Speaker 5: And I don't believe you have to you know, even
Speaker 5: see your parents if you have problems with them, but
Speaker 5: you kind of have to forgive them at some point
Speaker 5: in your heart, you know, however you can, you know,
Speaker 5: I just see a lot of older people who like
Speaker 5: never really who kind of held onto this resentment towards
Speaker 5: their parents that abused them, and it was like it
Speaker 5: really I would just be mindful of that down the line.
Speaker 5: And when I say forgive, I mean it's not even like,
Speaker 5: you know, however you can or just to let them
Speaker 5: free or something from tormenting you, because if it goes
Speaker 5: on any further, I hope it's settled to more than that,
Speaker 5: but just weigh down the line, you have to let
Speaker 5: go of it at some point, I feel personally.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the thing to say about forgiveness as an
Speaker 1: inside job sort of thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's part of the process of healing yourself
Speaker 2: is just to exhaust those thoughts and those emotions and
Speaker 2: even when they come up for you, even though it
Speaker 2: may feel like, oh, like, I can understand a dynamic
Speaker 2: where you your partner doesn't understand how you or or
Speaker 2: you know, you not understanding your mother's reaction or having
Speaker 2: difficulty with it with relationships, or your partner, Like, I
Speaker 2: can understand that that might be weird too, to even
Speaker 2: be like, oh god, it's so disappointed, or I miss
Speaker 2: my mom or whatever however your feelings might present, but
Speaker 2: like really feel those feelings. You know, it's very valid
Speaker 2: to be to be emotionally harmed by an event like this,
Speaker 2: It is, that's very valid. So, like, the healing component
Speaker 2: is just really important to like really try to always
Speaker 2: continue to heal. It's not just a one and done.
Speaker 2: It doesn't just happen in one sitting or one letter.
Speaker 2: It's a process of forgiveness and forgiveness, and every time
Speaker 2: these feelings come up, forgive her in a way where
Speaker 2: you don't have to communicate and be hanging out with her,
Speaker 2: but forgive her for her own ignorance, for the way
Speaker 2: she was raised, for whatever her parents did to her.
Speaker 8: You know, yeah, no, I love this advice, and it's
Speaker 8: very validating.
Speaker 10: I think, just hear it.
Speaker 8: You know, sometimes I'm like, am I being dramatic? But
Speaker 8: it feels it's like you know, which I think is
Speaker 8: a normal response in these situations. It's for me to
Speaker 8: feel like I'm overreacting, but no, it's it has been
Speaker 8: unbelievably devastating and difficult. And then you know, now that
Speaker 8: I'm feeling better and have healed a lot, I think,
Speaker 8: you know, I'm like, maybe I should dive back in
Speaker 8: that pool, but yeah, I.
Speaker 4: Don't think that's the right way to go about it.
Speaker 8: I love that idea of just writing it down. And also, Chelsea,
Speaker 8: I appreciate this is the worst thing that's ever happened
Speaker 8: in my life. I've never would have pictured this, and
Speaker 8: I don't have that idea of you know, it's.
Speaker 6: Not just one and done.
Speaker 3: Is really helpful to remember that it's a process.
Speaker 10: Yes, I'm going to just get I'm not gonna.
Speaker 3: Just wipe it away and make it go away.
Speaker 2: Well, everyone always thinks when they're going through something like,
Speaker 2: oh I thought I was over that. Why is this
Speaker 2: hitting me again? Why is this hitting me again? It
Speaker 2: was just a week ago. I thought for sure, I'm
Speaker 2: done with this. That's the way grief happens. That's the
Speaker 2: way like emotions work. They kind of slowly drizzle out,
Speaker 2: but you have to give them the proper amount of
Speaker 2: respect and attention when they do come up, right.
Speaker 1: So Yeah, Also, just to address the emotions that you're
Speaker 1: feeling about, feeling selfish or feeling like.
Speaker 3: You're being too extra.
Speaker 1: I think that when you're in a relationship with someone
Speaker 1: like this who's not caring for your feelings, some people
Speaker 1: like this will injure you and then treat you like
Speaker 1: you're being too sensitive because you're bleeding and like you
Speaker 1: made a decision to move farther away from the source
Speaker 1: of those injuries.
Speaker 3: And I think that's totally fine.
Speaker 1: Just remember like, it's not your fault for being too sensitive.
Speaker 3: That's that's the one.
Speaker 1: That's the one a lot of people use, is like
Speaker 1: hyper sensitive sort of thing. You made the right choice
Speaker 1: for you at the time, and there might be a
Speaker 1: different choice in front of you.
Speaker 9: I love that.
Speaker 6: Thank you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, thanks for calling in.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you so much, you guys.
Speaker 4: Yeah for sure, Katie.
Speaker 11: Bye, Okay, we're going to take a break and we're
Speaker 11: going to be right back, and we're back with Rufus Wainwright,
Speaker 11: who has a big show coming up in La on
Speaker 11: May fourth.
Speaker 4: Dream Requiem. It's called Where's the show? Rufus.
Speaker 6: It's a Disney Hall downtown.
Speaker 4: That's such a beautiful venue.
Speaker 6: No, I'm very excited about it. Yeah, very excited.
Speaker 4: How does one rehearse for that? Do you go in
Speaker 4: or earlier that day and rehearse?
Speaker 5: Oh no, there's about there's about three days of rehearsals
Speaker 5: with the orchestra and the course, not a ton of
Speaker 5: time because it's so expensive. The great thing about Disney
Speaker 5: Hall though, with me in this project is that I
Speaker 5: had composed the piece Dream Requiem, but it wasn't quite finished,
Speaker 5: and I went to see a concert beforehand at Disney Hall.
Speaker 5: And when when I got in there, I know they
Speaker 5: have one of the most amazing organs in the world
Speaker 5: at Disney Hall. It's this insane instrument that it looks
Speaker 5: great and it sounds incredible. And I sat there looking
Speaker 5: at the at the stage and at the organ. I
Speaker 5: was like, oh my god, I have to have an
Speaker 5: organ in my piece. That I need an organ, but
Speaker 5: so so I uh so. I then went back and
Speaker 5: composed the last little bit of the requiem with that
Speaker 5: in mine, and and now you know, on May the fourth,
Speaker 5: I'm going to get to actually hear that organ play
Speaker 5: in the piece.
Speaker 6: So whatever, I just feel very fortunate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's gorgeous, beautiful. Yeah, okay, well awesome.
Speaker 4: Well we do we have anything else, Catherine? Or are
Speaker 4: we good?
Speaker 1: I mean, I do have one little quickie if you
Speaker 1: want to, let do a quick close out for sure.
Speaker 1: All right, fantastic. So our last question today comes from Casey.
Speaker 1: Casey says, you're Chelsea. I'm twenty eight and in a
Speaker 1: new relationship with a guy for three months. Recently, my
Speaker 1: boyfriend read my private journal without my permission, and in
Speaker 1: my journal I had written some things that weren't complimentary
Speaker 1: about him. I love him very much, but also sometimes
Speaker 1: I just need to vent in my own private journal.
Speaker 1: After reading my journal, he confronted me about it, and
Speaker 1: instead of apologizing for reading it, he demanded I apologize
Speaker 1: for what I wrote, saying that what I did was
Speaker 1: much worse. Again, all I did was write personal thoughts
Speaker 1: in my private journal.
Speaker 3: I ended up apologizing because I was so caught off guard.
Speaker 1: But now I feel weird about it, and I feel
Speaker 1: like I don't have a safe space to write my
Speaker 1: personal thoughts anymore. I also feel like I can't trust
Speaker 1: that he won't read my journal again. Additionally, after this happened,
Speaker 1: he went and told his friends and other people about
Speaker 1: what I wrote, which felt really embarrassing and invasive because
Speaker 1: I also wrote about some personal things I was going through.
Speaker 1: Is this a big red flag or am I being dramatic? Casey, No,
Speaker 1: that's a big red flag.
Speaker 4: Huge.
Speaker 6: You gotta get far away from this person.
Speaker 2: Yeah, now that's an invasion of privacy, Like that is
Speaker 2: a reason to actually end a relationship. Yes, you can't
Speaker 2: go through other people's private things. You just can't do that.
Speaker 1: Yes, And I mean like to blame you for just
Speaker 1: being able to that's crazy.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, he's first of all, if you read someone's like
Speaker 2: you don't, that's supposed to be a secret. And then yeah,
Speaker 2: and then he said double it's like a double whammy.
Speaker 2: He did that, and then he wants to be mad
Speaker 2: at you about it.
Speaker 5: No, and then he tells his friend and then he
Speaker 5: tells his friends about it, which is it's like a
Speaker 5: triple thing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, It's unbelievable.
Speaker 2: You're writing, where are you supposed to express yourself if
Speaker 2: you if it's not a safe place to write in
Speaker 2: your journal. Yeah, this guy's no, that's a red flag.
Speaker 2: Break up with him as soon as you can. Problematic
Speaker 2: for sure. Okay, Rufus, thank you so much for being
Speaker 2: here today. It was great talking to you.
Speaker 6: And yes, it's great to see you again.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I hope I see you in person sometime soon.
Speaker 5: Yes, Yes, we'll try try to come on May the fourth.
Speaker 5: If you're a figure out and Jane's going to be
Speaker 5: amazing made the fourth.
Speaker 2: I would be there. I would come if I'm in La.
Speaker 2: I have to look at my calendar and see if
Speaker 2: I'm in town on Meg.
Speaker 4: In maya okay, okay.
Speaker 2: Bye bye, do do do do do drum roll, Catherine please,
Speaker 2: Chelsea Handler Abroad. Abroad is my European tour. So I'm
Speaker 2: coming to obviously find.
Speaker 4: A husband abroad.
Speaker 2: I need to get the health out of this fucking country,
Speaker 2: and it's not as easy as you think. So I'm
Speaker 2: coming to Rekuvik, I'm coming to Dublin. I'm coming to
Speaker 2: the UK. I'm coming to Brussels, Paris, Belfast in May
Speaker 2: and June, I'm coming to Oslo. Stockholm to Copenhagen, Manchester, London, Glasgow,
Speaker 2: New Zurich, Vienna. I've never ever been to Vienna, Berlin,
Speaker 2: Barcelona and Lisbon.
Speaker 4: I'm coming abroad is abroad.
Speaker 3: That sounds like fun. I'm going to go see you abroad.
Speaker 2: I I know I want to go see me abroad
Speaker 2: and there all be there all be excellent.
Speaker 3: Do you want advice from Chelsea?
Speaker 1: Right into Dear Chelsea Podcast at gmail dot com. Find
Speaker 1: full video episodes of Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching
Speaker 1: at Dear Chelsea Pod. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered
Speaker 1: by Brad Dickert executive producer Catherine Law and be sure
Speaker 1: to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot com