WEBVTT - SYSK Selects: How the Deep Web Works 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:05.040 Hello, everyone, Happy Saturday. Chuck here with another Saturday Selects 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:10.680 pick this week, How the Deep Web Works January. This 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:13.760 is a good one. Everyone's deep Web is deep and 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:15.720 dark and scary, or at least it can be. And 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:17.919 we dove into that it's changed a lot over the 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:20.600 past six years. But this is a pretty good early 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:22.319 peak at the deep web. And I was proud of 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:24.680 this one. So give listen. I hope you enjoy it. 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:30.960 Have a great weekend. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:39.760 a production of My Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:42.080 and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:46.720 Charles Depy, Chuck Bryant, yea Audie uh and it makes 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:49.199 the Stuff you should Know. That's right, mineus Jerry. But 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:54.720 with no that's right, we lose a Jerry gain a Knoll. Yeah. 0:00:54.800 --> 0:01:00.040 One step forward and another step forward? Oh for you 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:02.360 are you've just been wailing on it. I'm not gonna 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:04.720 say two steps back with Nol, sitt and five ft away, 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:08.080 but it could be one and one. One step foward 0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:10.760 with Nol, one step back for not having Jerry. You're 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:13.400 saying it's a step forward not having Jerry, and a 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:16.639 step forward having nol. I'm just trying to make everyone 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:23.520 like me doing a poor job of it. You do 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:26.880 a great job of Everybody loves the chuck, not everybody 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:31.200 who doesn't. I have some mortal enemies. Mortal enemies. Yeah, 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:33.760 they want to kill them trying to kill you. H 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:38.240 we'll chuck. Yes, I will tell you what if they 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:40.600 did want to kill you, they wanted to hire a 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:43.559 hit many. Yeah. The deep web is a good place 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:46.960 to start, looking quite a segway. It's been a while. 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:50.600 I t that one up. You did unintentionally. Yeah, I 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:52.840 spotted it and went after it. Yeah. This is about 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:56.760 both the deep and dark web, which are two different things. 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:59.160 The dark web is part of the deep web, thank you. 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:03.680 But the deep web is necessarily dark, all dark. Yeah, 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:06.280 that's very well put. The dark web is the nefarious 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:09.840 things that go on in the deep web, not necessarily nefarious, 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:12.920 but the purposefully hidden. Yeah, that's true, because there are 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:16.000 some good things in the dark web. I totally misspoke. Yeah, 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:18.040 well you know what. I think that it's great that 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:21.320 you confess to it. You feel better, I do. Man. 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:24.600 This is a really upfront kind of episode, isn't it. 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:30.359 It's a very honest we're bearing it all. Uh so, 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:33.040 do you have a fancy intro story? No? You think 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:37.160 I would? Right, My intro gets buried later on. It's 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:40.919 a great intro, but it just I'll use it as 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:47.320 the intro. Okay, go ahead, okay, okay, Chuck. Yes, have 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:50.919 you heard of our favorite band, Iron Maiden? Ah? Yeah, 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:55.960 sure so. Iron Maiden is arguably the most awesome band 0:02:55.960 --> 0:03:00.840 of all time. Oh dude, all right, not a huge fan, 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:03.520 but you you wouldn't be like I hate Iron Maiden. 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:06.200 They suck, of course. Not no, because it makes you crazy. 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:09.320 It's right. Iron Maid's been around for a while. They're 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:12.840 pretty smart. They know what they're doing. Um and recently 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:18.480 they figured out a way to maximize their touring dollars 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:22.440 by flying their own plane. They well, Bruce Dickinson always did. 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:25.960 Yeah he was. He's a certified pilot. It's gotta be efficient. 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:29.760 I would imagine, plus fun unless Bruce was partying too 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:31.680 hard and then they got to fly to the next 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:33.920 city that night. He wouldn't do that, I hope not, 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:38.520 because that's that's dangerous. I mean, driving drunk is bad enough, 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:41.920 but flying drunk I can only imagine. Sure. Uh, and 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:45.000 it's probably not just drunk, you know what I'm saying. No, no, no, 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:49.000 he's he's straight straight has he always been? I don't know. 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:52.040 I can't verify that well anyway, Um, Bruce and the 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:56.200 boys uh figured out that a good way to figure 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:59.560 out where to tour, where to decide to tour, um 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:04.120 be to figure out where their music was getting pirated 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:09.360 the most. That sounds reasonable. It does sound reasonable. It's it. 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:13.040 It provides you with evidence of an established fan base 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:17.680 and a fan base that is unwilling to pay for 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:21.920 your record but would probably pay to see you live. 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:26.719 How does that reason? Well, they like your music, but 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:29.280 they don't want to pay for your CD, so why 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:31.680 would they go to see live and pay? Because it's different, Like, 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:34.640 seeing a live show is way different than buying a CD. 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:36.560 You can't you can't get a live show. You could 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:38.280 get a video of a live show, it's still not 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:40.679 the same experience. A live show is a live show. Plus, 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:45.920 everybody always knows that anybody involved in the or entrenched 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:49.560 in the old guard music industry does any band doesn't 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:52.520 make any money on their records and make it on touring, 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:55.560 So going to see a band live also is kind 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:59.040 of a true act of fandom because you're really you're 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:03.080 you're contributing directly to your band that you like. You know. Um, 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:05.040 So what they did was they hired a company to 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:09.719 look at bit torrent sites and find the regions where 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:12.839 their music it was most pirate ID and they created 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:15.040 a tour map from it and went and played those regions. 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:17.840 Did you do you have the number one Iron Maiden 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:23.880 pirated region? But we're gonna say Rio, all right, they're 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:26.960 huge in South America. That's that's my guess. We'll look 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:29.960 it up afterward, I guess Rio. And so they were like, 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:32.160 we're gonna start our tor and Rio. Yeah. And it 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:35.120 wasn't just that that one place, but it was basically 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:38.360 a tour that was built on the areas where the 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:40.599 music was most pirated. It was a Stroker genius, but 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:45.560 they couldn't have done it without harvesting the deep web 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:49.800 because bit torrent sites. When you search bit torrent, it 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:54.279 doesn't the average search engine doesn't respond with a list 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:57.600 of bit torrent activity. It'll just send you to a 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:00.360 bit torrent site, which means that those pages is of 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:03.839 bit touring activity, which are web pages, and they do exist. 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:07.080 They're part of what's called the deep web. That's right, 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:10.520 the surface web as we know it, and search engines 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:14.839 that we all use like Google and being supposedly only 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:18.279 have access to about point zero three percent of what 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:23.640 is truly on the world wide Web. It's like scary 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.960 and weird and thrilling all at the same time. Point 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:32.279 three And anything else that's buried is the deep web. 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:37.280 And it's not necessarily the deep web is not is 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:39.400 not when you're purposely trying to hide things. It just 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:43.920 may not be cataloged and index may a password. Sure, 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:48.480 maybe one of those timed sites that uh don't let 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:51.719 you access date after a certain amount of time, could 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:56.400 be anything with a captution involved, anything that's not hyperlinked. Uh, 0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:58.560 there's lots of reasons that something could find it is 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:01.440 all buried in the deep web. And and you make 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.280 a good point to separate the deep web and the 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:06.279 dark webs. Let me give you an example of deep 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:09.760 web aside from those bit torrent sites. Um, there's this 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:12.120 company called bright Planet and they had this price they 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:14.720 provide deep web harvesting, and they had this primer on 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:16.840 you know, what is the deep web. One of the 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:20.120 examples they used was if you look up government grants 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:24.080 on a traditional search engine, it will probably provide you 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:27.560 with www. Dot grants dot gov as one of the 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:31.400 first returns right straight up. Um, when you go onto 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:34.760 grants dot CoV, you can then search and find pages 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:37.520 of all these different government grants. You can search by keyword, 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:40.160 you can browse, but those pages aren't going to come 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:43.240 up on your normal Google search. You have to go 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:45.640 to the site, which means that those pages of the 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:49.000 actual grants are part of the deep web. Yeah, your 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:52.960 bank account, you're checking account online, if you have mobile 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.840 banking or online banking, it has a web page all 0:07:55.840 --> 0:08:00.640 to its own right now. And if I searched Chuck 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:04.840 Bryant's checking account, it would not come back. I would 0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:07.320 not get that because it's behind a password. It's a 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:10.800 it's a website page. It's a web page, but it's 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:15.040 password encrypted. Therefore it's part of the deep web. Twitter 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:19.280 until it index tweets used to be you couldn't search 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:23.800 tweets individual tweets. Now you can, so that made them 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:27.160 formerly a part of the deep web. Actual tweets or 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:30.760 every company on the planet has some sort of internal 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:36.559 employee pages like internal dot discovery that only we can 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:40.040 access and you can't Google search any of that stuff, right, 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:44.680 or somebody could conceivably access it. Maybe it depends on 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:47.040 the page, but you have to know the exact u 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:51.400 r L. So the idea is, if it's blind, if 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:53.880 if search engines are blind to it, it's part of 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:57.360 the deep web. If search engines can index it and 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:01.920 bring it back as a return results search results, Um, 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:04.400 it's part of the surface web. Yeah, because that's all 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:07.520 the search engine is doing. They are We might should 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:09.680 do a full podcast on search engines at some point, 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:12.600 but the general thing is that there is an index 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:17.120 of data, and they use spiders or crawlers because it 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:20.959 is a web, to crawl around and locate domain names 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:25.880 and hyperlinks and basically index all that in what they 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:28.960 think will be most helpful to what you're looking for. Right, 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:32.000 So chuck Brian's bank account. Yeah, there are some web 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:37.120 pages out there that contain information related to that keyword search. Yes, 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:40.480 so a search engine will keep an index with that 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:43.800 keyword search with the u r L s, the locations, 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:47.120 the page content, some of the page content, the meta 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:53.480 tags are the metadata, and other very brief sketch information 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:57.280 about those pages associated with the keyword for an index, 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:00.160 which means that when you type in Chuck Brian, it's 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:02.439 bank account. You got a quit saying that. Sorry, I 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:05.000 thought about it as I was saying it that last time. 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:10.000 But when you type in um Birds of Paradise bank account, 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:14.400 bank account, um, it will the search engine goes and 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:17.599 accesses the index. It doesn't have to go all the 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:20.160 way across every page on the web that it can find. 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:23.720 It just goes to its indices, and that's how search 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:26.680 results are returned so quickly. It's not going across the internet. 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:31.920 It's already got the spider crawlers, the bots doing that constantly. 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:34.640 The search engine is just going to the index is 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:37.560 that the bots have created from their searches. Yeah, and 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:39.959 it is super shallow. I mean, we said point zero 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:42.440 three percent. We do. We do our whole job as 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:46.440 researching online mainly, and we run into this all the 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:49.800 time where you feel like you're getting a very slim 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:52.959 portion of what you're trying to find out because so 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:56.800 many of the best uh, medical journals and things like 0:10:56.880 --> 0:11:00.439 this don't just pop up as you know, it's more 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:04.040 likely to be some headline from CNN dot com and 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:06.880 not like a Harvard Medical Journal paper that could really 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:08.679 help you out. Yeah, And I mean, like you can 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:13.400 get deeper and deeper with your keyword skills and your 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:17.200 search skills, but for the most part that Yeah, the 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:20.160 first returns of first results, depending on what you search for, 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:23.319 are going to be, like you said, superficial. Yeah. But 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:27.400 even if you're super a super sleuth, a Google master 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:29.880 like we all think we are, I mean, how can 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:32.839 how much can that be bumping it up point one? Yeah, Well, 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:34.800 a lot of the problem, to the chuck is the 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:38.400 so much of science is behind a paywall. Yeah, yeah, 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:42.920 really really really expensive paywalls. To um, which is like, 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:45.360 here's the first eight lines of this awesome medical research 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:49.640 paper exactly if you want it, give us. Yeah, which 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:52.000 is a problem in and of itself, not necessarily related 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:55.960 to this, but with current search engine technology, you have, 0:11:56.520 --> 0:12:01.480 like you said, a superficial result from a core um 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:03.280 on the other end of the spectrum, And this is 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:06.599 kind of what search instances are dealing with now, Um, 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:09.160 the deeper you go into the deep web. Again, the 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:12.000 surface web is point zero three percent of all of 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:15.000 the web pages on the entire Internet, So the further 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:18.080 you go into it, the more data you have, and 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:20.360 you eventually can run into the problem of what's called 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:24.760 big data, which not capitalized B or D, which refers 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:28.720 to like companies like Google and and that that can 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:32.680 dig and harvest and maintain a large amount of data. 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:35.439 It's just it's basically data that's so much and so 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:40.000 unwieldy you can't even uh process and search it. It's 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:42.880 like not even helpful. It's yeah, it's like a really 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:47.360 bad Internet search. Yeah. Um, so the the the current 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:53.920 state of search engine design or creation is balancing that 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:58.520 figuring out how to get less superficial without running into 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:02.920 the big data problem of of incoherent data due to 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:06.480 just massive amounts of returns. And you might think that 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:09.400 these search engines do a great job because I can 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:11.480 always find out what I need, But you don't know 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:14.840 what you're missing, you know, right, So it's it's sort 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:18.120 of not even correct to say that I always find 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:19.680 out what I need because you may even know you 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.439 need it because it's hidden. That's true, And I mean 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:48.000 you're you're missing quite a bit. Okay. There's apparently fifty 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:53.320 million registered domains on the Internet. Yeah, and that's I 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:55.800 looked at like just in two thousand twelve. I think 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:58.199 there're only like two hundred and fifty or something. I mean, 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:00.640 it seems like it's doubled in the last couple years. Right, 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:03.400 So there's five million domains, for example, a lot of 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:06.360 more garbage, yes, but how stuff Works dot Com is 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:10.240 one domain, And I asked Tracy Wilson, who's the site 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:13.480 director and runs stuff you missed in history class. It's 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:16.480 one of the co hosts. How many pages there are 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:21.720 how stuff Works? She said roughly at least, so one 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:27.040 domain out of five fifty million has fifty pages itself. Right, 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:29.000 so you kind of get an idea of the scope. 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:32.920 Deep web is anywhere from four hundred to five hundred 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:37.080 times bigger than the surface web. And like you said, 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:39.320 you don't know what you're missing because you don't know 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:42.640 what's out there because your search returns aren't bringing you 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:44.840 back anything. Yeah, I mean there's a lot of important 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:47.600 stuff out there. We talked about medical papers. Um, apparently 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:52.360 there's engineering databases, financial financial information, a lot of things 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:56.360 that could really help research. Uh, but you just can't 0:14:56.360 --> 0:15:00.920 find it, right. Um. Unpublished blog posts or just basically 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:05.640 anything that a person creates on the Internet. Yeah, Um, 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:09.440 is if a page is created, it's part of the 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:12.600 deep web. Yeah, unless you take this stuff down, it's 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:16.400 living there forever, just gathering dust exactly. So. Um, and 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:21.760 it's not just necessarily engineering databases or medical information. Um. 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:25.880 There's also a lot of shady stuff too. The dark web. 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:28.320 That's the that's the dark web. Yeah, that is the 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:33.320 dark web. Is when is um the sites intentionally uh 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:36.120 reroute you. Well, we'll get to how they do it, 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:41.280 but basically it's a it's an intentional anonymity. Um, it's not. Oh, 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:42.760 it just happens to be buried on the deep web 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:45.920 because it's not index it's it is purposely hidden from 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:51.520 the surface web, so people can't track the person searching 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:56.080 for something or the the end uh website. I guess 0:15:56.960 --> 0:16:00.720 like those are all just private essentially, right, and privacy 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:04.760 advocates are way into it. You're not necessarily a child pornographer, 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:07.240 although there is a lot of that kind of stuff 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:09.600 on the dark web. Um, there's also a lot of 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:12.160 good that happens on the dark web. Yeah. The the 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:15.560 anonymity and privacy and the desire for it isn't in 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.120 and of itself proof of wrongdoing, of course, not no, 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:22.480 which is frequently it's frequently pointed out as that but incorrectly. Yeah, 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:23.840 I like, I don't want the n s A. And 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:25.840 my business people like, well, what are you doing right? 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:28.120 Exactly nothing. Yeah, I just don't want them in my 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:32.120 business precisely. Yeah. Um, that's an answer. That's good enough. 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:35.600 That answer is good enough. And for a lot of people, um, 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:37.400 they say, well, then I need to go to the 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:42.000 dark web to maintain anonymity, um or higher hit man 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:46.960 right to kill Chuck Bryant. That you could do. That's crazy, Um, 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:49.760 you could do. There was a site for a while. Um, 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:50.960 I don't know if you've heard of it or not. 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:54.320 It's called the Silk Road, Yeah, which got shut down, 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:56.800 and I teach Chuck, I know you've heard of it. 0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:59.560 It's like the most famous dark website of all time. 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:03.680 The the Feds busted um ross Albrick, who may or 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:07.160 may not be dread Pirate Roberts, which was the online 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:09.960 name that they said he's the guy running this, and 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:13.439 he is now saying, actually that's not me. Um, but 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:17.959 all those bitcoins are mine, so you can't seize those bitcoins. 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:20.800 And there it's in courts now they're trying to determine 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:23.960 whether or not it's it counts as something that you 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:27.200 can seize as an asset from a criminal. And they're 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:29.920 saying that this is literally a case that no court 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:33.520 has ever heard before. Yeah, they they it's never been 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:38.080 questioned whether you could seize cryptocurrency. Yeah, and you should 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:40.760 listen to our podcast on bitcoins by the way, from 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:44.080 not too many months ago. But it's essentially just yeah, 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:47.600 encrypted digital currency. And they have a really really fascinating, 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:52.800 circumstantial case against a brick Um, not just for operating 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:56.960 the Silk Road site. Yeah. Um, that's where you could 0:17:56.960 --> 0:17:59.160 buy drugs and things, by the way, right, which being 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:01.359 the operator of that in and of itself shouldn't be 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:03.560 a crime. I'm sure that they would have prosecuted him 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:05.760 for that if they'd been able to get their hands 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:09.119 on him for just that. But apparently they also have 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:14.560 him for at least two hired contract killings. One he 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:21.120 he um, I guess hired an undercover cop to do it, 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:23.560 and the guy went to the person who he was 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:26.800 taking the hit out on and said, this guy's trying 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:29.199 to kill you. I need you to cooperate, and I'm 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:31.919 going to take pictures of you dead and send them 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:34.600 to this guy, and Old Brick apparently gave him like 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:38.680 forty grand up front, another forty after he saw the photos. 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:42.840 So like in bitcoins, No, I think in cash, although no, 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:45.120 it would have been in bitcoins. You're right, yeah, yeah, 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:47.479 so who knows? It could have been two bitcoins at 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:50.720 the time or five thousand. Well, silk Row two point 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:53.440 oh launched in November? Is it out? Now? It's out? 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:57.560 And um there are other copycatters, like the black Market 0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:00.760 reloaded and which that one down for a little while 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:03.000 after silk Road went down, but then it went back up. 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:05.080 I think, yeah, Like, I don't know, man, I hate 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:08.160 to say you shouldn't try and fight crime, but you're 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:10.399 not going to stop the stuff when one, you know, 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:12.280 you cut off the head of one and another grows 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:15.200 right out of it in its place. You know, it's 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:20.400 true if the structure that's allowing for the anonymity can 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:25.400 remain intact, which is the dark web, right, But it's 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:27.880 not just the dark web, it's like how you traverse 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:30.320 the dark web, like using tour Yeah, I guess we 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:33.800 haven't explained. Um, the Onion Router t o R is 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:36.480 what it's called and it is software that you use 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:39.600 to access the deep web and the dark web if 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:44.520 you choose to UM and it searches for these anonymous 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:46.880 sites for you, like a search engine, but instead of 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:49.760 dot com or dot org or dot net, they end 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:52.879 in dot onion the idea and onion has many layers 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:57.440 and UM that's that's how you access it through tour. 0:19:57.520 --> 0:19:59.080 You have to buy it and install it on your computer. 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:04.040 It makes it for free. Yeah, Firefox had UM something 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:06.639 that it was basically a tour bundle. It was the 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:08.879 most popular one and you could download it for free. 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:12.160 But it's not a web browser itself. It's like an 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:15.600 add on to a web browser that allows anonymity. And 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:19.040 it does two things. One, it bounces your trail all 0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:21.480 over the world from server to server, so it makes 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:25.560 you and your activity extraordinarily difficult to track. It's not 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:28.160 just like this computer went to this site, right, It's 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:31.080 like that's that whole Onion thing. There's so many layers. 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:32.920 It's like we can't we don't know who this is 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:34.879 or where they're, where they are, what they're doing, or 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:37.439 anything like that. We just know right now that this 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:40.159 particular person happens to be it. There's a user on 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:42.600 silk Road, but we don't know who it is or anything. 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:45.400 You can't track them because they're using Tour. The other 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:48.959 thing is you can't get into dot onion domain sites, 0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:52.840 dark websites unless you're using tour, Like they won't let 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:56.160 you in unless you're an anonymous user. Um So, tour 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:59.280 has this kind of twofold thing, but there was recently 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:01.320 a breach in it and it turned out the FBI 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:05.800 was using malware to break through the anonymity of tour users. 0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:08.280 And yeah, and found out a lot of people on 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:11.240 some sites that are that were hosted by something called 0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:15.880 Freedom Hosting, which apparently had a horrible reputation for being 0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:18.840 the repository on the web, on the dark web for 0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:23.119 child pornography and knowingly like basically just not doing anything 0:21:23.119 --> 0:21:29.680 about it. Um So, the FBI had a They hacked 0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:34.959 the Freedom Hosting servers and inserted this malware. So if 0:21:35.000 --> 0:21:37.120 you went to a Freedom Hosting site, any of them, 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:39.840 not just necessarily a child pornography but any site hosted 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:42.479 by Freedom Hosting, which is like say go Daddy for 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:47.680 the dark web, um you would get this malware package 0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:53.760 that exploited a key hole in Firefox's tore bundle. It 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:57.200 went into your computer, said hey, give me your mac address, 0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:02.800 which is basically like your computer hardware, like serial numbers 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:07.200 your computers and your computers alans tracking number, and then 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:10.119 also tell me where the computer is, and it sent 0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:14.120 it back to a server, a mystery server in McLean, Virginia. 0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:16.680 And finally, after like a month, FBI was like, yeah, 0:22:16.720 --> 0:22:18.679 that was us. We got We have everybody who went 0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:22.240 on that site's name and address and everything on them. 0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:26.000 So that's been a huge ripple and Firefox fixed this loophole. 0:22:26.440 --> 0:22:29.359 But it's a huge ripple through you know, the dark web, 0:22:29.720 --> 0:22:33.879 deep web community saying like whoa, whoa. We were anonymous before, 0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:37.840 but you know now it's it's been shown definitively that 0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:41.679 the FEDS can find out who we are. So the 0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:45.399 anonymity is reduced, if not taken away, which defeats the 0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:47.720 whole purpose. Yeah, so if you don't have that, then 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:49.760 you can keep lopping the heads off of these things, 0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:52.320 and they're not going to grow back because people are afraid. 0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:55.360 People will be afraid because they won't feel like they're 0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:59.520 anonymous any longer. Well tour has a sort of an 0:22:59.520 --> 0:23:02.199 ironic background, which we will get to right after this 0:23:02.240 --> 0:23:21.320 message break. All right, so we're back and we left 0:23:21.320 --> 0:23:24.320 you with the the nugget that tour has an interesting background, 0:23:25.080 --> 0:23:28.119 and the background of tours Actually, the US Naval Research 0:23:28.200 --> 0:23:32.120 Laboratory in two thousand three launched this program for political 0:23:32.160 --> 0:23:35.760 dissidents and whistleblowers so they can get their message out 0:23:35.800 --> 0:23:38.480 without fear of reprisal. Right, and this is still a 0:23:38.640 --> 0:23:41.359