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Speaker 1: All right, everybody, welcome back to Battleground Podcast. We are

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Speaker 1: doing the second part of my interview with the great

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Speaker 1: Rob Pinholt. Now, Rob was my radio telephone operator in Afghanistan.

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Speaker 2: I've all and told him to do it. It's not

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Speaker 2: something that he picked.

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Speaker 1: And then now he got out of the military and

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Speaker 1: he's the CEO of Claymore Ops, which is a mentorship

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Speaker 1: program for transitioning veterans so serve this country in uniform.

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Speaker 1: He continues to serve those who serve us even now.

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Speaker 1: He's a great, great American and I'm psyched to have

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Speaker 1: our second part of our conversation today.

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Speaker 2: Rob, welcome back to the podcast.

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Speaker 3: Man.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for giving me more.

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Speaker 3: Of your time. Yeah, happy to be here.

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Speaker 1: So we like talk for about an hour the first episode,

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Speaker 1: and I guess we were solving the problems of the world.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I really just want to like just jump right into Afghanistan.

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Speaker 1: Now we had a rough deployment. Anybody who who's watched

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Speaker 1: this or knows about me or subscribe to this podcast,

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Speaker 1: you probably have heard the story of Outlaw Platune from

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Speaker 1: me in a couple of different ways. But the reason

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Speaker 1: why I'm bringing my soldiers on is just because they

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Speaker 1: give a completely different perspective on the fight there, and

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Speaker 1: I want to do everything that I can to elevate

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Speaker 1: their stories as well.

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Speaker 2: And so.

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Speaker 1: Afghanistan was hell for me, Like I still think about

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Speaker 1: it every day in some way. I mean I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying that it like completely dominates my thoughts, but I

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Speaker 1: mean literally every day something will happen I'll be like,

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Speaker 1: oh man, that kind of reminds me this, or you

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Speaker 1: know that time we were in Afghanistan smelled like this, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Rob, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So tell me about, like what were some of the

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Speaker 1: the seminal moments in Afghanistan for you?

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Speaker 4: Well, I think arriving there was a big deal, you know,

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Speaker 4: I mean all we had, I think you were kind

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Speaker 4: of the same.

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Speaker 3: Boat as I was.

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Speaker 4: All we had the to go off of in terms

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Speaker 4: of what to expect was what the guys who had

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Speaker 4: been there before had told us, Guys who we had

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Speaker 4: some several guys who had been what was about two

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Speaker 4: years prior they had been in Afghanistan, and that was

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Speaker 4: kind of all we had to go off of. But

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Speaker 4: it's very surreal experience to be there. You kind of know,

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Speaker 4: you're getting closer to the fight.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: It's like it's like you read these stories about guys

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Speaker 4: in World War One and they could start to hear

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Speaker 4: the guns off in the distance, and you know they

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Speaker 4: know they're getting close to the front. And it kind

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Speaker 4: of felt like that because for us it was it

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Speaker 4: was it was a plane. So you get on a

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Speaker 4: plane in a familiar place, and you get off a

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Speaker 4: plane and you're surrounded by mountains and in a very

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Speaker 4: unfamiliar place, and it's really a major major shock.

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Speaker 3: To the system in a way. And so that was

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Speaker 3: a big one. I would say, man, do you remember that?

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Speaker 2: I do.

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Speaker 1: Gosh, you're talking to me about it, and it's all

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Speaker 1: flooding back to me now for the first time you

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Speaker 1: get off the bird there and it's like you're just

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Speaker 1: surrounded by mountaintops everywhere, and some of them, like some

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Speaker 1: of them aren't huge, but the ones way off in

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Speaker 1: the distance like a bogroom, for example, is a good example,

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Speaker 1: is a good example of this. Just towering mountains all

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Speaker 1: the way around three hundred and sixty degrees And never

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Speaker 1: seen anything like that in my life, and it is

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Speaker 1: incredibly surreal, especially the first time that you load live

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Speaker 1: rounds in your magazines. There's this picture of me loading

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Speaker 1: my magazines for the first time ever, and I look

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Speaker 1: like a kid. You know, I was a kid, but

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Speaker 1: I was like twenty three. Looked scared shitless, like completely

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Speaker 1: out of my mind, and all all of you guys

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Speaker 1: are are sitting around me doing the same thing in

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Speaker 1: like one of those shell buildings, the turtle shell buildings

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Speaker 1: that they had there, and like everybody here gear hanging.

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Speaker 3: It was.

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Speaker 1: It was like a shanty town. But yeah, I do

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Speaker 1: remember that. It was crazy.

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Speaker 2: And you get to the.

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Speaker 1: Front where we were in Burmel on that on those

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Speaker 1: outlying bases. I mean at the time that was just

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Speaker 1: where we were, but they were they legitimately were outlying

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Speaker 1: forward operating bases.

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Speaker 2: We lived.

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Speaker 1: It seemed like rob a completely different lifestyle than people

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Speaker 1: who say deployed the Bogram Salerno, or even or even

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Speaker 1: our battalion headquarters at Orgonee, which was still, like all

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Speaker 1: things considered when compared to other bases, was still fairly

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Speaker 1: dangerous place in Orgonee, but but Burmell was just so

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Speaker 1: far out there. And yeah, we get to the base

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Speaker 1: in Burmel when it was just again hilltops everywhere. I mean,

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Speaker 1: another life Afghanistan could be you know, a billion dollar

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Speaker 1: plus industry for ski resorts and tourism and everything else

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Speaker 1: that they can just.

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Speaker 2: Get it together.

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Speaker 1: But it is surreal, especially when what I thought of

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Speaker 1: when somebody tries to kill you for the first time,

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Speaker 1: that sticks.

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Speaker 2: That has stuck with me, and I think that.

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Speaker 1: Moment for me has changed me in a lot of ways,

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Speaker 1: where I remember thinking, well, you know, they shoot a

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Speaker 1: rocket at us.

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Speaker 2: Early on. Everyone was like, oh my god, we're getting

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Speaker 2: their cibs. It's gonna be crazy, you know.

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Speaker 1: But it was just thinking like there's somebody up in

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Speaker 1: those hilltops that wants me dead and doesn't even know me.

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Speaker 1: And I just I found that to be so so bizarre.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it kind of you know it to me,

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Speaker 4: it brought me back to some of the things that

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Speaker 4: I think the Army is pretty good at training soldiers

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Speaker 4: for these kinds of situations, because you know, I can

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Speaker 4: remember going into basic training. We talked last time about

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Speaker 4: putting on the uniform, but I also remember getting to

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Speaker 4: the first rifle range and I really hadn't done any

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Speaker 4: shooting prior to that, maybe like boy scouts or something

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Speaker 4: to shoot a BB gun, what much, you know, And uh,

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Speaker 4: despite the fact that I'm from Texas and uh, and

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Speaker 4: it didn't it struck me that we were not shooting.

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Speaker 3: At circular like bullseye targets.

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Speaker 4: We were shooting at human silhouettes and and just kind

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Speaker 4: of creating that that that feeling of man versus man fighting.

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Speaker 4: And of course, you know, then they they call you

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Speaker 4: body bag fillers and things like that. They they, you know,

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Speaker 4: the drill sergeants will will sing cadences with you that

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Speaker 4: about killing and being killed and all that kind of stuff,

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Speaker 4: and it's they could try to kind of condition you

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Speaker 4: for it. And then and then when the time came when,

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Speaker 4: like you said, we were being shot at, and I

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Speaker 4: can remember at night looking off in the hills and

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Speaker 4: seeing the lights of their campfires, you know, and maybe

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Speaker 4: maybe some of them were lumberjacks up there, but I

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Speaker 4: suspect most of them were you know, enemy reconnaissance patrols

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Speaker 4: that were, you know, camped out for the night keeping.

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Speaker 3: An eye on us.

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Speaker 4: And you know, that is very surreal. It's very surreal

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Speaker 4: to know that there's somebody who their whole mission is

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Speaker 4: to snuff you out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, if we talked about this in

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Speaker 1: the last episode or talked about this with somebody recently

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Speaker 1: about how you know you hear like all these stories

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Speaker 1: and these veterans are like.

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Speaker 2: Take it easy on us for Fourth of July, Like

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Speaker 2: you know, I don't.

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Speaker 1: It's Fourth of July. Light off as many fireworks as

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Speaker 1: you want. I can handle it. But I was sitting

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Speaker 1: there listening to the fireworks and they weren't freaking me

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Speaker 1: out or anything. But it does bring me back to

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Speaker 1: Afghanistan and the way that we would fall asleep. We

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Speaker 1: would get used to just her one of fives with

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Speaker 1: fire all night. We used to have what back then

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Speaker 1: they were called oh and I fires, harassment and interdiction fires,

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Speaker 1: which we don't they don't do in Afghanistan anymore, and

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Speaker 1: they didn't do. I mean after we left, couldn't be

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Speaker 1: more than a couple of years before they stopped that,

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Speaker 1: you know, after the rules of engagement changes and everything else,

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Speaker 1: you know, but just going to bed and getting used

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Speaker 1: to those guns firing all night and then you would

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Speaker 1: hear the dull thuds out in the distance. It really

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Speaker 1: is watching watching a movie or something. Falling asleep in

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Speaker 1: the trenches and just hearing the machine guns, you know,

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Speaker 1: over and over. I mean, it's so everything about it.

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Speaker 1: Rob I look back.

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Speaker 3: And watching them fight each other. You remember there fighting

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Speaker 3: each other.

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Speaker 4: You'd see trace arounds and we knew we didn't have

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Speaker 4: any American patrols over there, and it was one tribe

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Speaker 4: fighting against another tribe that you know, maybe they've been

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Speaker 4: fighting for a thousand years or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, it is. It is crazy. So I I

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Speaker 1: that was surreal for me, you know. And it's like

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Speaker 1: you're falling asleep out there in the mountains, the enemies

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Speaker 1: all around us. You could either fall asleep in the truck,

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Speaker 1: which is really uncomfortable, or stretch out and lay on

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Speaker 1: the ground. But then you you're worried about this is

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Speaker 1: going to sound crazy to people who are watching or listening,

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Speaker 1: but you're worried about getting your throat cut in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the night and people even when you had

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Speaker 1: like we called them piss tubes, So forgive the you know,

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Speaker 1: the crude statement, but that's what we called them up there.

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Speaker 1: But these these tubes that stick up, these these plexi,

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Speaker 1: these PVC pipe tubes that stick up out of the

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Speaker 1: ground that are buried, you know, the one end sticks

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Speaker 1: up out of the ground and they've got this metal

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Speaker 1: mesh netting light on the top and they they're buried

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Speaker 1: six feet or something on the ground with crush and

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Speaker 1: run gravel, and you go to the bathroom and then

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Speaker 1: we call.

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Speaker 3: Them piss tubes.

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Speaker 1: It's gross thinking back, but you'd have to wake up

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the night and walk. For me,

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Speaker 1: it was one hundred yards or something. Maybe last maybe

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Speaker 1: fifty sixty yards. It was still quite a distance in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the night. And that's another thing that

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about now for the first time. How dark

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Speaker 1: it was over there. And I mean dark when there's

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Speaker 1: no ambient light. There's no cities, there's no towns. Nobody

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Speaker 1: has their front porch lights on, you know, and walking out,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you can't see six inches in front of

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Speaker 1: your face. It's pitch black, and you're worried, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you've got Afghans locals that we commissioned to work

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Speaker 1: on our bases, you know. And I'm like thinking, man,

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Speaker 1: we're out here surviving in these direct fire engagements, and

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Speaker 1: I'll be damned if I, you know, get my throat cut,

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Speaker 1: going pee in.

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Speaker 2: A in a pitch tube that would be one healthful

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Speaker 2: way to go.

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Speaker 1: But those are the things that you think about.

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Speaker 2: Isn't that crazy?

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Speaker 3: Is that crazy?

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Speaker 4: Because when you got guys going at night, they're gonna

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Speaker 4: miss the tube sometimes and get it on the grass

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Speaker 4: of the ground is like saturated with like.

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Speaker 3: One hundred men's urine.

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Speaker 4: And the thought of it like a stray rocket coming

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Speaker 4: in hitting you and you're there with your trousers down,

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Speaker 4: laying in pee slowly dying. You know, like there's something

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Speaker 4: about that that is somehow more mortifying than death itself.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: And this is why, this is why, this is why

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Speaker 1: guys would pee in bottles, you know. And like you'd

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Speaker 1: got into Greason's room, and I love Greasan, and like

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Speaker 1: we we lived right next to each other. Greeson's sergeant,

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Speaker 1: Greason was Michaeltoon sergeant. And I think he would he

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Speaker 1: would wholly admit to this because we all used we

231
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Speaker 1: all peed in bottles. Nobody wanted to use the pist

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Speaker 1: tubes in the middle of the night. And I go

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Speaker 1: in there, and you'd go in there, and he'd be

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Speaker 1: like watching the Outlaw Josie Whales or working on paperwork

235
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Speaker 1: or something, and all along his walls. Lined up on

236
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Speaker 1: the little two by fours that lined his walls were

237
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Speaker 1: like glistening bottles of urine.

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Speaker 2: And we throw.

239
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Speaker 1: We we'd go to throw them out.

240
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Speaker 2: We'd go to throw them out.

241
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Speaker 1: And the Afghans would come and take the trash and

242
00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,400
Speaker 1: they'd pick it up and be like nine thousand pounds

243
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Speaker 1: because there's probably like forty gallons of urine in there.

244
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Speaker 2: It's just a crazy Can you believe that we lived

245
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Speaker 2: that life? I can't believe that.

246
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Speaker 1: But that was that was a great fear of mine.

247
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Speaker 1: And you just cried it perfectly. Nobody wants to get

248
00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,760
Speaker 1: their throat cut and slowly bleed out and and a

249
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Speaker 1: in a puddle of one hundred men's urine.

250
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Speaker 3: Well I was. I was a weirdo.

251
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Speaker 4: And I I never, like, I think twice did I

252
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Speaker 4: go number two in the field at all, for like

253
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Speaker 4: my entire time in the army. I don't know how

254
00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,200
Speaker 4: you pull that off, you know, physiologically, but somehow that

255
00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,280
Speaker 4: that was the that was the situation for me. And

256
00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:23,920
Speaker 4: when there was one night, and I don't know if

257
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Speaker 4: you remember this, there we were on we were on

258
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Speaker 4: a hill and you.

259
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:34,840
Speaker 1: Really had to go and I remember.

260
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Speaker 4: And and there was there was there were there was

261
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,080
Speaker 4: a sniper. Do you remember that there was some guy

262
00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:40,040
Speaker 4: popping shots at us?

263
00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I know, And it was it was.

264
00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:44,560
Speaker 4: Like they were inaccurate shots, so we kind of didn't

265
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Speaker 4: worry about it. And and it was getting dark, and

266
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Speaker 4: then this like thick fog fell, and this was like

267
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Speaker 4: the thickest fog I've ever experienced in my life, where

268
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,080
Speaker 4: you literally couldn't see my hand in front of my face.

269
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Speaker 3: And I was like, I gotta go, I gotta go.

270
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Speaker 4: So and the way we had like a linear like

271
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Speaker 4: our shaped patrol base going on instead of the you know,

272
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Speaker 4: the more.

273
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Speaker 3: Spread out one where we would have a slit trenches.

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Speaker 4: So I had to just kind of like meander down

275
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Speaker 4: the hill away from the patrol to go find a rock.

276
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Speaker 4: And you know, I was just like just any minute

277
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Speaker 4: now some'm old boy and with a knife as he

278
00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,240
Speaker 4: was gonna encounter me, and I'm gonna mess in my pants.

279
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Speaker 4: You know, That's the weird things you think about in

280
00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:24,480
Speaker 4: those situations, you.

281
00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:25,880
Speaker 2: Know, in what world?

282
00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:30,480
Speaker 1: You know, I remember, you hear the way that parents

283
00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:34,040
Speaker 1: talk about their twenty somethings, you know, and oh, I

284
00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,400
Speaker 1: don't want my son. He's too young to drive across

285
00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,360
Speaker 1: the country. And I'm like Rob Penholt was pooping in

286
00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:47,280
Speaker 1: the middle of Afghanistan under sniper fire. It was he

287
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,880
Speaker 1: was younger than your son would be driving across the country.

288
00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,199
Speaker 2: Like, you know, it's just the whole thing is just

289
00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:57,040
Speaker 2: so crazy.

290
00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,640
Speaker 1: And yeah, those are the situations that I mean, I

291
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,320
Speaker 1: I really haven't talked about that in forever, but those

292
00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,080
Speaker 1: are the things that those are the things that those

293
00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,319
Speaker 1: are the situations that you find yourself then that man,

294
00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,280
Speaker 1: if I go nobody wants to go out like that.

295
00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:12,280
Speaker 3: You know, no, No, we.

296
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,440
Speaker 4: Were fortunate as far as we move around at night.

297
00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:16,559
Speaker 4: We were fortunate to have those dogs remember that. Remember

298
00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:18,680
Speaker 4: the dogs we had on post there for a while.

299
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:19,720
Speaker 3: Yes, and I know.

300
00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:23,360
Speaker 4: We weren't really supposed to have them, but they they

301
00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,520
Speaker 4: kept away with all the riff raft the bad dogs.

302
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:27,320
Speaker 3: Let's say the dog.

303
00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:30,000
Speaker 4: Didn't like us, and uh and you know, the rodents

304
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,040
Speaker 4: and things like that that would get into our into

305
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,480
Speaker 4: our equipment, and uh, that was a.

306
00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:37,160
Speaker 2: Stupid policy, by the way. And I get it, like

307
00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:38,280
Speaker 2: I do get it.

308
00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:40,800
Speaker 1: You know, you don't want like you don't want a

309
00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,360
Speaker 1: rabid dog coming down there biting a soldier or you know,

310
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:46,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, that's.

311
00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:48,880
Speaker 4: That's gotta be the least of our worries though. I mean,

312
00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,040
Speaker 4: you know, like we're in combat. To have dogs is

313
00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:53,960
Speaker 4: the trade off has got you gotta do.

314
00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:54,960
Speaker 3: A little bit of it.

315
00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,640
Speaker 1: They're a little bit of They were just just even

316
00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,600
Speaker 1: about mentally robbed. They were our connection to back home.

317
00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,480
Speaker 1: Dogs reminded and what was you know, it was crazy,

318
00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,360
Speaker 1: is that dogs hated the enemy. They knew they It's

319
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:08,800
Speaker 1: almost like they knew who they were.

320
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,360
Speaker 3: They they absolutely and they could sense it.

321
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,360
Speaker 1: And they knew who was bad even when we didn't.

322
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,640
Speaker 1: They could sense it. And and they yeah, that's so true,

323
00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,600
Speaker 1: rob They would they would keep rodents away. They would

324
00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:24,520
Speaker 1: actually guard us while we slept, you know.

325
00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,600
Speaker 4: And yeah, guys, guys were locking and load and going

326
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,800
Speaker 4: to the guard towers after after they killed those dogs

327
00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,480
Speaker 4: off because because there were other dogs that were getting

328
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,280
Speaker 4: in that weren't our dogs, and they were mean, and

329
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:36,560
Speaker 4: you know, we didn't want we don't want to get

330
00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:38,360
Speaker 4: bit by some dog and a way to a guard tower.

331
00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:40,480
Speaker 3: And so to me, the trade off was.

332
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:42,040
Speaker 2: I just talked about this.

333
00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,040
Speaker 1: I just talked about this like with my wife, and

334
00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,320
Speaker 1: she was like, remember when people were attacking you on

335
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,280
Speaker 1: the campaign trail or the media is attacking you, saying like,

336
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,680
Speaker 1: I can't believe that in his book he refers to

337
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,080
Speaker 1: somebody as the male bitch. I'm like, well, first of all,

338
00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,840
Speaker 1: I wasn't referring to her as that. It's just everybody.

339
00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:05,320
Speaker 1: Everybody was everybody, and it was because we go out

340
00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:07,800
Speaker 1: on patrol. She shows up at our base once every

341
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,200
Speaker 1: six months or something I don't even maybe even once,

342
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:12,920
Speaker 1: and in sixteen months I don't know, shows up on

343
00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:17,160
Speaker 1: our base, sees sees the dogs there, tells, tells battalion

344
00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:20,480
Speaker 1: or tell somebody, and they send somebody down to youthanize

345
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:24,400
Speaker 1: our dogs. Legitimately, they youthanize our dogs wire out of

346
00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,000
Speaker 1: they waited for us to go out on patrol. They

347
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,520
Speaker 1: youthanized our dogs and then they threw them on the

348
00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:33,640
Speaker 1: burn pit, and Pantoha found the skulls on the burn pit,

349
00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:35,000
Speaker 1: Like can you imagine?

350
00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:36,120
Speaker 2: I mean, that is this?

351
00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,160
Speaker 1: I'm sorry man, Like, that's just evil and those dogs

352
00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:43,040
Speaker 1: were I mean, and the reason she did it, you know,

353
00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,720
Speaker 1: she did it because like all of this happened, she

354
00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:46,800
Speaker 1: didn't do it.

355
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:47,760
Speaker 2: But she was just.

356
00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:52,040
Speaker 1: Following orders, right, and it was we and then the

357
00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,720
Speaker 1: defense of people who did this stuff, they these were

358
00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,080
Speaker 1: the rules we're not supposed to have. Part of General

359
00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,440
Speaker 1: Order number one or some I don't know. General Order

360
00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,240
Speaker 1: number one was like no drinking, sex, porn, stuff like that.

361
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:04,840
Speaker 1: But dogs were up there as well. You weren't allowed

362
00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,840
Speaker 1: to have them. But we had fascinated these dogs, you know,

363
00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:09,600
Speaker 1: we had they had all their they had all their

364
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:14,399
Speaker 1: vaccines and stuff. So so that she was just following orders,

365
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:16,919
Speaker 1: I guess, but still it was that was a devastating

366
00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:18,520
Speaker 1: moment for for our guys.

367
00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:19,280
Speaker 3: Over cautious.

368
00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:21,240
Speaker 4: I mean, you talk about people not letting their kids

369
00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,680
Speaker 4: drive across the country and whatnot, that you know, this

370
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,879
Speaker 4: is a this is excessive caution. And I think that

371
00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,840
Speaker 4: kind of caution had far left us because we were

372
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,200
Speaker 4: under fire every day, and I think for the people

373
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,280
Speaker 4: who weren't under fire every day, caution was the was

374
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,640
Speaker 4: the was a little bit more. They were a little

375
00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,560
Speaker 4: bit more comfortable with caution than they were with taking

376
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,520
Speaker 4: the chance to recognize that they that by leaving those

377
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,240
Speaker 4: dogs with us, they were countering, you know, the negative

378
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:49,720
Speaker 4: effects of being in combat.

379
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,600
Speaker 1: It's like going back to Bogram and I I had

380
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:57,120
Speaker 1: very few trips back to Bogram, I mean maybe more

381
00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,560
Speaker 1: than most of the actual line troops in the platoon.

382
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,240
Speaker 1: But like, but you get off the bird and people

383
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,760
Speaker 1: would be wearing road guard belts like walking to the

384
00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:11,280
Speaker 1: defact and you're like, what it was just a totally

385
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:12,439
Speaker 1: different world, you know.

386
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:15,880
Speaker 4: That's that's how you know. Somebody's incentive is to never

387
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:17,879
Speaker 4: make a mistake. And when when you're miss when you

388
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,800
Speaker 4: were incentive is to never make a mistake, then you

389
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,280
Speaker 4: never do anything good. When your incentive is to to find, fix,

390
00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:26,360
Speaker 4: close with, and destroy the enemies of the United States

391
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,280
Speaker 4: of America and close combat through fire and maneuver, then

392
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,080
Speaker 4: that's where that's where the American.

393
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:33,080
Speaker 3: Victory comes from. And those the people who are making

394
00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:33,520
Speaker 3: those road.

395
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,480
Speaker 4: Guard rules are not they were not they were they're

396
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,400
Speaker 4: incentivized to not make mistakes.

397
00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:43,160
Speaker 2: That is interesting. You still remember the infantry mission.

398
00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:47,320
Speaker 1: You just you just recited it like right out of

399
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:48,199
Speaker 1: f M seven D.

400
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:53,000
Speaker 2: The old Fieldman that they used to use. Yeah, that's uh,

401
00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:55,119
Speaker 2: that's really crazy.

402
00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:58,959
Speaker 1: You're at such a great point. And those people, I mean,

403
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:00,679
Speaker 1: obviously they lived in a different world.

404
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:01,240
Speaker 2: It was more.

405
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,840
Speaker 1: Bogram was safer than Atlanta. I mean, remember we used

406
00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:06,520
Speaker 1: to joke. I remember in the in the truck because

407
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,119
Speaker 1: you and I spent hours and hours just.

408
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:11,040
Speaker 2: For people that are watching and listening.

409
00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:14,840
Speaker 1: RTO goes with went with me everywhere, And I mean

410
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,480
Speaker 1: you weren't the RTO the whole time, but for the

411
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:19,920
Speaker 1: for the months that you were, we would just talk

412
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,720
Speaker 1: about everything. Remember, we used to joke around, like those

413
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,119
Speaker 1: guys up in Bogram should be paying the military to

414
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,280
Speaker 1: stay there. You know, it's like a it's like a resort.

415
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:33,000
Speaker 1: They have these world class gyms everywhere. They have iced

416
00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,280
Speaker 1: coolers of bottled water on every corner.

417
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:43,199
Speaker 2: Saw night. I think it was Wednesday, but I don't know,

418
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:44,080
Speaker 2: maybe that was senior night.

419
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,560
Speaker 3: They had a different night. Yeah, they did have They.

420
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:48,760
Speaker 2: Did have Sauca night. They did.

421
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,680
Speaker 1: And they were getting three hots, three hot meals a day.

422
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:57,040
Speaker 1: They were hot showers every day. Let's say midnight, they

423
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:01,880
Speaker 1: had midnight chow God, they dreaming coffee. They had Burger King,

424
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:06,400
Speaker 1: they had McDonald's. We were out there. We were humping

425
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:10,240
Speaker 1: one hundred pounds up the Hindu Kush Mountains at fifteen

426
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,040
Speaker 1: thousand feet. I think I was in the best shape

427
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:14,760
Speaker 1: in my life when I came back there. It came

428
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,440
Speaker 1: back from Afghanistan. And then we go back to Bogram

429
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,000
Speaker 1: and be like, holy shit, some of these dudes gained weight.

430
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:27,040
Speaker 2: Like it's like a perfect encapsulation.

431
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,879
Speaker 1: Of the difference between a front a front line troop

432
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 1: and somebody who's in the rear with the gear. And

433
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:37,280
Speaker 1: by the way, there's nothing I am not. Everybody has

434
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,399
Speaker 1: a job, you know when you join the military. The

435
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:43,240
Speaker 1: thing about the army is that and this is why

436
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,680
Speaker 1: I recommend young, young to young people unless they want

437
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,080
Speaker 1: to do something highly specialized in the navy like be

438
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,040
Speaker 1: on a sub or you know, captain of a nuclear

439
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 1: aircraft carrier unless or a fighter pilot or something. If

440
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,320
Speaker 1: you want to serve in the army, and then the

441
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,159
Speaker 1: army has everything. It's just like a reflection of the

442
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 1: civilian world. You can be an accountant, you can be

443
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,919
Speaker 1: a nurse, be in the quartermaster corps do supply and logistics.

444
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:09,639
Speaker 1: You can be in the infantry like us and be

445
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 1: on the front lines fighting. But you can you be

446
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:14,359
Speaker 1: a pharmast, you can be a doctor, you can do

447
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,679
Speaker 1: anything in the arm engineer. They have everything. So if

448
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 1: you wanted to serve your country, but maybe you didn't

449
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:21,919
Speaker 1: want to be a frontline troop, but you wanted the

450
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 1: experience of service. A million and one things you can

451
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:27,159
Speaker 1: do in the army, you know, but I mean, you

452
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,919
Speaker 1: don't have that same level of opportunity elsewhere. So my

453
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,520
Speaker 1: point is is that everybody has a job. It's not

454
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 1: a slight against those people. I will say that there

455
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,160
Speaker 1: was times when I was younger, in my twenties where

456
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,000
Speaker 1: I didn't have the perspective that I have now, and

457
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,920
Speaker 1: I think, like and the perspective that I have now

458
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,879
Speaker 1: is that if you volunteer to serve this country in

459
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,240
Speaker 1: a time of war and you know you're going overseas,

460
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,240
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter you're a bog arm or a burmel.

461
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:59,240
Speaker 1: Although one of those deployments from a combat standpoints more difficult,

462
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,360
Speaker 1: you can get your app shot off in bogram as well.

463
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,160
Speaker 1: You're risking your life for the country and that's all

464
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:07,480
Speaker 1: that matters to me. And I mean that, yeah, But

465
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 1: I will say there were moments in my twenties as

466
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:12,440
Speaker 1: a platuny leader where you're getting shot at every damn

467
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,120
Speaker 1: day and I'm like, how are these assholes getting paid?

468
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 1: The same combat pay as me. You're a wonder that

469
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,119
Speaker 1: these guys are making that these guys are making the

470
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:21,119
Speaker 1: same amount of money as me.

471
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so frustrated, so frustrating.

472
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 4: It is such a different job. I mean, you know,

473
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 4: when you think about the nature of the job. For

474
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,720
Speaker 4: what we did when we were in Konis, which means

475
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,359
Speaker 4: back in the US in Garrison, we would we would train.

476
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 3: That was our job. So we didn't have a job

477
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:40,600
Speaker 3: that we did on a day to day basis. We

478
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 3: were preparing to do our job, which was combat.

479
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:47,679
Speaker 4: And the other guys, most of the other occupational specialties,

480
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,160
Speaker 4: they had a job to do at that moment at

481
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 4: that time where they were, you know, they were whenever

482
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,920
Speaker 4: their job was maintaining vehicles or whatever, they were doing

483
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 4: that then and there. They had a day job essentially,

484
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 4: and so when they would go to Afghanistan, they would

485
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,320
Speaker 4: continue to do that day job. And so it was

486
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,880
Speaker 4: definitely in a much worse situation to be there than

487
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 4: to be where where we were back back home. But

488
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 4: for us, it was that was our time to do

489
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 4: our job, and it was a very different job. And

490
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:13,439
Speaker 4: at the end of the day, you know, people say, well,

491
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 4: you chose infantry. Yeah, we did. That's the point we

492
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 4: we we volunteered to be on the tip of the spear, uh,

493
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 4: you know, meeting the enemy face on and and and

494
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,400
Speaker 4: and I don't I don't think that, you know, obviously

495
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 4: we want to make sure that we acknowledge that everybody

496
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 4: else was on the team. But I don't think it's

497
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 4: I don't think there's anything wrong with acknowledging also that

498
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 4: there there are additional hardships that come and additional uh,

499
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 4: there's an additional merit I would say to what what

500
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 4: we did and at the end of the day, where

501
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:47,120
Speaker 4: whether Rover met the road, you.

502
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,160
Speaker 2: Know, he rob I completely.

503
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 1: I mean, this is why the this is something that

504
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 1: really kind of bothered us, rubbed us the wrong way.

505
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,440
Speaker 1: But since we're going down.

506
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 2: That path, we'll go there. Today.

507
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 1: I want to talk about something that's been on the

508
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 1: minds of many Americans lately, energy and dependence. With rising

509
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 1: energy prices and geopolitical tensions, it's more important than ever

510
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 1: for our country to be self sufficient when it comes

511
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 1: to our energy needs. And that's where Deep Well Services

512
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 1: comes in. They're a company that's not only dedicated to

513
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 1: delivering top not services to the oil and gas industry,

514
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,680
Speaker 1: but they're also committed to the goal of American energy independence.

515
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:37,199
Speaker 1: With their cutting edge technology and expert team of professionals,

516
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:41,679
Speaker 1: they're helping to unlock new sources of domestic energy and

517
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: reduce our dependence on foreign oil. But that's not all.

518
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 1: Deep Well Services is also a great American company that's

519
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 1: hiring like crazy right now, and they're not just looking

520
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 1: for anyone. They're seeking out talented and hard working individuals

521
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: who want to oin their team and make a difference.

522
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: And with competitive salaries and benefits, it's a great opportunity

523
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 1: to not only work for a patriotic company, but also

524
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: build a rewarding career in the energy sector. So if

525
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: you're looking for a job with purpose and meaning, or

526
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 1: if you're simply passionate about American energy independence, then you

527
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 1: should definitely check out Deep Well Services. Visit their website

528
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 1: at Deepwellservices dot com to learn more about their company

529
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 1: and career opportunities. This is why the Combat Infantryment's badge

530
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 1: was so special to me. Yeah, it's so been going

531
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: through my old stuff and unpack I've been in this

532
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 1: place for a year now, but I got finally got

533
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,959
Speaker 1: all of my military stuff back after my divorce was finalized.

534
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 1: Like why it took that long to get my military

535
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: year back, I don't know. But nevertheless, like I found

536
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: the very first Ranger tab that was pinned on you

537
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 1: see the pin there and everything. My dad pinned this

538
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 1: on me. This is like, worked my ass off to

539
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 1: get this. It was really really shitty experience, really tough.

540
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 1: I'm proud of it, but that CIB was something that

541
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 1: I cherished, and it's because it's you only get that

542
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,159
Speaker 1: if you're in the infantry or and now in the

543
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: Special Forces and direct combat.

544
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 2: With an enemy of the United States, you know.

545
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 1: And I took a lot of pride in that because

546
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: that was that award was emblematic of our job and

547
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: what set us apart from everybody else, just like the

548
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 1: blue cord, right, And what I was explaining to somebody

549
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: the other day was that what's cool about the infantry? Actually,

550
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: you know what it was my son. It was Ethan

551
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: rob who's you know, fourteen, he's growing up fast.

552
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 2: What's cool about being in the.

553
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: Infantry is that when you walk, if you're in your

554
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 1: dress uniform and you're wearing your cord and you've got

555
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 1: your CIB, and you got back in the day you

556
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,640
Speaker 1: had branch insignia too with the cross rifles. Everyone knew

557
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 1: you were infantry. Everyone knew that you were a war fighter.

558
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 1: Everyone knew that you in some level you were front

559
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 1: towards enemy, and if you had the CIB, it means

560
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 1: you were getting shot at by that enemy.

561
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 2: So there's almost like another layer.

562
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: Of respect for the infantry. But when we were there,

563
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: it was when they rolled out the cab. You remember

564
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 1: that the combat action badge, which I'm fine with again

565
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 1: now that there's a little perspective, especially since a lot

566
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: of these especially in Iraq or anyone that was running

567
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: convoys in Afghanistan, you didn't have to be the infantry

568
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 1: get your ass blown up by by an ied or

569
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: get shot up in an ambush. So again I think

570
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 1: it was it's totally fine. I mean, I look back

571
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: on it now again with some leadership perspective, thinking, well, wait,

572
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,199
Speaker 1: it's probably a good thing that we recognize those troops

573
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: for their combat service too. But at the time, it

574
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,120
Speaker 1: just felt like they were trying to make everybody infantry.

575
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,199
Speaker 1: Do you remember that they were watering down to the CIB.

576
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 4: They changed the uniform so that for officer well, officer's

577
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 4: analysts that had their branch insignia on the calm are

578
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 4: they removed that.

579
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: That was a huge mistake. That was a huge mistake.

580
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: I remember that, Yeah, those cross.

581
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think I think the way that they

582
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 4: were thinking these this is somebody who hasn't been I

583
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 4: don't think these are decisions being made by people who

584
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 4: had been in like direct combat, because they I think

585
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 4: they thought it was the same thing. But the you know,

586
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 4: a movement to contact where you're you know, the enemies

587
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 4: that they're waiting for you and you're going to find

588
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 4: them and kill them is a very different thing than

589
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 4: you're you're traveling somewhere where you're not supposed to be

590
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 4: in a fight, and then you get in a fight.

591
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:35,920
Speaker 3: They're not the same thing.

592
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 4: And while you certainly want to acknowledge those who get

593
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 4: in a fight for whatever reason, it's not the same

594
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 4: thing as is you know, put you know, getting your

595
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 4: legs moving toward the enemy.

596
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 3: That's a different thing.

597
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 4: And they made that badge look a lot like the

598
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 4: combat Inftrument's badge, which was kind of a thumb in

599
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 4: the eye in my opinion.

600
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 3: And you know, I I think that it's I think.

601
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 4: It's perfectly reasonable to have issues with the way that

602
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 4: they handled that stuff. I think it's it's reflective of

603
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 4: a lot of the attitudes where there was just a

604
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 4: lack of respect for the combat guys.

605
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 3: You know.

606
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 4: And I think that for us in Afghanistan, I think

607
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 4: we benefit fitted from being neglected in that sense though,

608
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 4: because in a lot of ways we were able to

609
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 4: fight in the way that we were meant to fight,

610
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 4: rather than having somebody look over our shoulders. So we

611
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:21,719
Speaker 4: benefited from that kind of neglect. But I think that

612
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 4: neglect was a lot of what resulted in a lot

613
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 4: of those policy changes, don't you wow?

614
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: I mean, oh my god, it's an absolutely fantastic point. God,

615
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: that neglect was the silver lining on the deployment we

616
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: didn't have. We weren't like we had get company commander's approval,

617
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: but our commander passed it down to me, you know,

618
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: make the decision on the ground. Oh my god, what

619
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: an I mean? We fought in an infantry men's dream

620
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: out there, and I mean, I say infantry men. It's

621
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: because back when we served again, I got attacked for

622
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: this in politics as well, and I said, my men

623
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: and this my men.

624
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 2: That eh, why are you just saying men? It's like, well,

625
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 2: that's because it was just men what I served. It

626
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 2: was idiots, you know.

627
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: But that's also something that infantry commanders said, men, this

628
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: is what we're doing. We're scaling point to hawk see

629
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 1: you on the other side.

630
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 2: I mean, like like.

631
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 1: Every combat leader going back to Alan's Ander the Great

632
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: would say that.

633
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 2: You know, it's like, it's a great point there.

634
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 3: You don't have to apologize for any of this.

635
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 4: I know you know this, but you don't have to

636
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 4: apologize for that stuff because the people who complain about

637
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 4: those things, they don't want you to do the right thing.

638
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 4: They want to catch you doing something that they can call.

639
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 3: The wrong thing. They don't, they don't they're they're not

640
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 3: looking for the right thing, you know what I mean.

641
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're complete idiots.

642
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: They're who I like to call mouth breathing morons, but

643
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: who have never served anything but themselves for their entire lives.

644
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: But these uh, like it was a silver lining that

645
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: we didn't have people breathing down our neck, that we

646
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: were free to engage the enemy and the way that

647
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: we wanted, in the way that we saw fit, and

648
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: we operated extremely effectively. But do you also remember Okay,

649
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: so going back to the rolling out of the combat

650
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 1: action badge and I again here we are going off

651
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: on a tangent here, but but.

652
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 2: They also rolled out the black berets at the same time.

653
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 2: Do you remember that.

654
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: Do you remember how mad the Rangers were at that,

655
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,959
Speaker 1: how the Rangers would wear their black berets and then

656
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 1: they gave everyone black. So here we were mad that

657
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: as standard infantry. Okay, now they're given cabs to everybody.

658
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 1: But at the same time or roughly the same time,

659
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 1: I mean it didn't like overlap exactly, but roughly the

660
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: same time period. US Army Rangers, the Ranger batinons would

661
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: wear black berets. The black berets set them apart from

662
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: everybody else. Well, then Shinchecky at the time, I think

663
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: it was Shinchecki made gave everybody black berets, and the

664
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 1: Rangers were like, this is bullshit. But they gave the

665
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 1: Rangers tan berets, and they're like, these tam berets are stupid.

666
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: I mean, it was just like everything everybody was everybody

667
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: was piste.

668
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 2: Everyone is so mad.

669
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: But now you look at what they're doing to the military,

670
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: and those problems that we had back then seem like nothing.

671
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 2: They seem like nothing.

672
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: Compared to what they're doing to to our military today.

673
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 1: So I guess, you know, again twenty years of perspective.

674
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know.

675
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 4: You were on you were on you were on Jocko

676
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 4: Willings Show, and you you talked with him about how

677
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 4: one of the things that he mentioned.

678
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 3: Was that he had his his uh, his.

679
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 4: Companies they were they were named instead of just being

680
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 4: Alpha Company, Bravo Company, they were Attack Company and uh,

681
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 4: you know, I don't know the I don't know the

682
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 4: Bravo would have been, but you know, he he they

683
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 4: were naming the companies to distinguish them. And I think

684
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 4: that that's that's something that you did very well, because

685
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 4: for us, we call the Outwapatune and I don't know

686
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 4: how many people know that, but this wasn't something that

687
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 4: was sanctioned by the army. We just decided that this

688
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 4: was an identity we were going to take on. I mean,

689
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 4: most platoons had some kind of a nickname, but but

690
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 4: you know, we we kind of we created the the

691
00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 4: emblem and and and distinguished ourselves from others because I

692
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 4: think that that's the right move. That's the thing, that's

693
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 4: the that's what winning teams do. You follow every Super

694
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 4: Bowl team in history of the NFL, they all have

695
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 4: distinguished themselves in one way or another. They weren't just

696
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 4: milk toast to do what everybody else did. They found

697
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 4: ways to be different. And there's nothing wrong with that.

698
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 4: And I think I think that that's something to be celebrated.

699
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: That I haven't thought about that in years. I mean

700
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 1: we did, remember do you remember we had T shirts

701
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: made and I mean had Mike Emrick, who is one

702
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: of our soldiers and amazing artists like drew the emblem

703
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: and I had a guide on maid and remember we

704
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,959
Speaker 1: ran with it once and we got in trouble. I

705
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:39,719
Speaker 1: got in trouble because you're not supposed to.

706
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 2: I didn't know, you know, we were like out.

707
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: There's a platoon running around with a guide on, like

708
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: a like a complete idiot, but it for you're not

709
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: allowed to run around with platoon size elements in below.

710
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: Don't get the wrong guide ons. Only only only companies do.

711
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: But there I was like a moron, like but people

712
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: liked it, you know, Yeah, that that that did that

713
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 1: identity was something that we did defend. You know, we circled,

714
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 1: we circled up around it. And I think that we

715
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: embodied that in Afghanistan and it came to be I mean,

716
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 1: we came to be known, you know, and where we

717
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: would listen to the enemy's radios and they'd see the

718
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 1: green skulls on the sides of our trucks and just

719
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 1: choose not to engage us.

720
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 2: Just hey, maybe I'm gonna pick an easier target.

721
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: And you're right, I mean that when we decided, because

722
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: it wasn't just me, Rob, it was just everybody was like,

723
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: we need a name, We needed something to you know,

724
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 1: we need something to rally around.

725
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 2: We need to have something, you know, to.

726
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: Coalesce this crazy And we were the bad news bearers

727
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: of the battalion.

728
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 2: We were always messing up.

729
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 1: I was always getting in trouble, always getting yelled at

730
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: for not shaving enough, not getting a haircut. You remember,

731
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 1: you remember when uh we went up to organ Ee

732
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: for that battalion patrol. You were the you're of my

733
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: driver and we had to go pick up Colonel Toner

734
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: and bring them back and like we never wore like

735
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: the next stuff on our IBA got that patrol. I did,

736
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 1: because I'm like, what do you think of what do

737
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: you think the chances are me? Me a w to

738
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: get out of here without shaving? You know, we're in

739
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 1: combat and stuff, you know, And it was like it

740
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: wasn't I didn't have like a damn beard I had

741
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: like like, it wasn't like this. It was one day

742
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: we drove up there state overnight and I forgot my

743
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: razor or something, and I'm like, what am I gonna do?

744
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:26,399
Speaker 4: You're the kind of guy you got that dark thick hair.

745
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 4: You can't get away with it.

746
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so I remember, remember I think you were

747
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 1: were you there? Were you on that patrol? I probably was, yeah,

748
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: And I was like, I don't know what are the

749
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 1: chances I'm gonna do? And of course I give the

750
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: patrol brief and Colonel Toner's there and we got not

751
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: even no bullshit, thirty some trucks in this convoy because

752
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 1: the time commander and his TACK is coming and like

753
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,280
Speaker 1: his PSD his personal security attachment, and they got trucks.

754
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 1: And then I got my platoon and I'm leading the

755
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 1: I'm the convoy leader. And it was like a three

756
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 1: hour drive or something for it do you remember how

757
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:56,399
Speaker 1: long of a drive it was from Morgan?

758
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 2: It was like three hours? Was it three?

759
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 4: That sounds I don't everything. People don't realize. I think

760
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 4: they might imagine that we're driving on roads out there.

761
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 4: It's like it's like just driving through a field for

762
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 4: hours and hours basically, and and it's it's we're going

763
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 4: about the pace of a school zone. So if you

764
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 4: can imagine riding a school zone for hours, like that's

765
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 4: that's the mind numbing experience with it with a helmet

766
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 4: on that weighs so much it hurts your neck.

767
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was crazy. Well he like pulls me again.

768
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 1: First of all, I'm like super nervous as it is,

769
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 1: you know, cause it's like you don't want to look

770
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 1: like an acid in front of the boss, you know.

771
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,399
Speaker 1: And I'm the one leading the patrol back. So as

772
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: you as you said, we didn't have there were no roads.

773
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: It's not like, you know, make a left at the

774
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: red light. It's like, no, make a left where that

775
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,359
Speaker 1: guy's popping a squat and let's see if we can

776
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:42,879
Speaker 1: go there.

777
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 2: Like it's literally like that.

778
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 1: Like you're gonna go down that road, you're gonna pass,

779
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 1: you're gonna pass like a wooden stick sticking out of

780
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 1: the mud. You're gonna see a beehive hanging from the tree.

781
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 1: Make a left at that beehive. Am I exact? That's

782
00:36:57,920 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 1: exactly how it is.

783
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 3: I mean, not even a little bit.

784
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 1: No, I mean, that's exactly how it is. So it's

785
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 1: so My point is, it's easy to get lost, and

786
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: if you get lost, one, you can get shot up

787
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: pretty badly if you find yourself an enemy territory or two.

788
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 2: It could be like a three hour drive could become

789
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 2: a six hour drive. And then you all of a

790
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 2: sudden you got it. Then all of a sudden, you

791
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 2: got the.

792
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 1: Battalion commander like looking at his watch, thinking, oh my god,

793
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:19,800
Speaker 1: this infanty lieutenant's a moron.

794
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 2: And then what if you run a gas what if

795
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 2: you run on fuels?

796
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: I mean that was a concern as well, like so

797
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 1: so many things I was nervous about. So I go

798
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 1: through the patrol brief, hit it out of the park.

799
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: We don't wear the neck pieces, but on that patrol

800
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 1: I did. So I got it, Like I got my

801
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: helmet on and my sunglasses on, and I have my

802
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 1: neck guard up here, and I'm trying to like hunch

803
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,400
Speaker 1: up underneath it like this so that he can't see,

804
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: like and he comes over and he comes over to me,

805
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 1: he's like Sean, I'm like, yes, sir. He's like, you

806
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 1: know he's I think he was like Lieutenant Parnell. I'm like, yes, sir.

807
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 1: He's like, take off your neck piece and your sunglasses.

808
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 1: Let me see your face. And I was like, son

809
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: of a bitch. And he's like, you didn't shave. You

810
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 1: didn't fucking shave.

811
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 2: And I'm like he's like, you got five minutes to

812
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:09,439
Speaker 2: go shave, my son of a bitch.

813
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: I didn't have a razor, so you know what I did.

814
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: I like run back. This is like disgusting, but I

815
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 1: like run into the bathroom. And I'm like scrambling around

816
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 1: in full com and full kit, right, and you have

817
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: to have your rifle because you got to carry it everywhere,

818
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,720
Speaker 1: you know, Like remember that, like like running around everywhere

819
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: in full kit like a moron. And I see this razor,

820
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 1: this disposable razor, sitting on the top of the trash,

821
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 1: like seriously, it was I.

822
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 2: And so like I'm like, you.

823
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 1: Like pressing down in the water, it's like there's like

824
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 1: no hot water. You know, because you don't have to

825
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 1: press down on the things you can't like turn a faucet.

826
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 2: It's like trickling out. And I'm just like with the

827
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 2: razor from.

828
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: The trash and I get back and like my face, yeah,

829
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 1: my face is all cut up, and he's like let's go.

830
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 2: I'm like what what damn it? Like why why?

831
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,760
Speaker 1: At the time, like again, I get so looking again

832
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 1: talk about having a perspective.

833
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 2: At the time, I was like, this is bullshit, Like

834
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 2: we're in combat. Who cares if we don't save a

835
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 2: little bit? But it really was a disciplined thing. It

836
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 2: really was.

837
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 1: Looking back, it was the right It was the right

838
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: call because as annoying as it was, as got it

839
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 1: because it was so dumb, you know, but it served

840
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: a purpose, a tactical purpose. If you got hit with

841
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,720
Speaker 1: gas or some sort of you know, nuclear biological chemical threat,

842
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 1: you got a beard, your gas masks ain't ceiling, and

843
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: you're dying.

844
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 2: You know, it's just that simple.

845
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 1: So that it did serve a tactical purpose. But I

846
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 1: do think that discipline and adherence to that standard, even

847
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:47,359
Speaker 1: even if it was a small one, right because you think,

848
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: like oh, shaving, who cares we're in combat.

849
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:50,439
Speaker 2: We can just let this go.

850
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: No, no, because when you start compromising on the small stuff,

851
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,720
Speaker 1: small stuff becomes big stuff, and big stuff in combat

852
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 1: get you killed. And I think Rob first of all,

853
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 1: totally wrong and the shaving thing was was necessary. But

854
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,399
Speaker 1: also I think that that's why when and I don't

855
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,440
Speaker 1: know for sure, so I'm just speculating. But the other

856
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: units would get out in the field, they their gunners

857
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 1: would take their helmets off or something, all of a sudden,

858
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 1: they get shot in the head and they're dead. Well,

859
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 1: we had six guys shot in the head. They all

860
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 1: survived because they never took their helmets off. We had

861
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 1: guys getting shot off. Yeah, shrapnel injuries, you know, we

862
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 1: had RPGs exploding, hitting turrets. They would have burn injuries.

863
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 1: But they would have their gloves on, they'd have their

864
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,399
Speaker 1: glasses and I can't tell you, manytimes, gunners would show

865
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 1: me shrapnel stuff from like holes in their glasses that

866
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 1: they were wearing. Had they they downgraded their uniform even

867
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 1: for a second at the wrong time, they're blind or

868
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 1: they lose a hand.

869
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 4: You're right right, His eyeball was saying they had that

870
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 4: there was that big barn improvise explosive device, you'd cut

871
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 4: right through cut. I think he cut part of his eye,

872
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 4: but the glasses deflected the shrapnel just enough that that

873
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 4: it saved his eyeball took off half of his ear.

874
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,320
Speaker 1: So yeah, right right, Oh my god, what a stud

875
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 1: he was. But I mean, like you look at so

876
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:15,879
Speaker 1: I you look at units that came after us, and

877
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 1: it's just like they would downgrade their uniform and I

878
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 1: just feel like you'd see like watching a documentary like

879
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: Rastrepo for example, and and guys would be like walking

880
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 1: around in firefights in.

881
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 2: Their underwear, and I'm like, right, the hell is this?

882
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:38,240
Speaker 2: Like that's not right someone.

883
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,839
Speaker 4: I mean like, so, that was one of the things

884
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 4: I got under my guys a lot about those kinds

885
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 4: of things, and sometimes they didn't like me for it.

886
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 3: But you know, one of the things you do in.

887
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 4: A patrol base is you know you've got some guys

888
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 4: are sleeping, and some guys are on security.

889
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 3: They're put they're they're protecting the force.

890
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,319
Speaker 4: And when guys would when my guys would sleep, I

891
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 4: always told him, all your gear is packed up ready

892
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,240
Speaker 4: to go, because if we got to get up quickly,

893
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,360
Speaker 4: you're gonna be ready to roll, ready to move, Otherwise

894
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 4: you're gonna.

895
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 3: End up without your gear for the rest of the deployment.

896
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 4: A lot of those guys did, and that happened, you know,

897
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 4: And and I wasn't gonna. I wasn't gonna let that

898
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 4: happen under my watch. And you are absolutely right about

899
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 4: the discipline, And that's that makes a big difference.

900
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:21,240
Speaker 3: That's often a life or death difference.

901
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 4: And not only is it whether or not you're following

902
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 4: the rules as they're laid out, but also the mindset

903
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 4: of ticking off the boxes that are the details, thinking

904
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 4: in terms of details, what details have I done? Have

905
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 4: I gone through the routine that I need to prepare

906
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:39,720
Speaker 4: myself for this fight, Because even though shaving might seem

907
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 4: like it's immaterial in a fight, it is a routine,

908
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 4: and a routine keeps you alive when you're when when

909
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 4: you know, unlike most jobs where you can make a

910
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 4: mistake and have a bad day and then just try

911
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 4: again tomorrow, for us, to make a mistake might mean

912
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 4: the end of your life or the end of the

913
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 4: lives of the people around you, And so that discipline

914
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 4: is important. But kind of taken back to what we

915
00:42:58,080 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 4: were talking about earlier. I think sometimes you can go

916
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 4: overboard with the disciplines. I think the disciplines themselves are important,

917
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 4: but you can't. You cannot worship the disciplines.

918
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 3: You know.

919
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 4: This is this is you know, Jesus taking the grain

920
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 4: on the side of the road during the Sabbath and

921
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 4: and UH and telling the UH, telling the the the

922
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 4: what was it the Pharisees that the UH the Sabbath

923
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:19,800
Speaker 4: was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

924
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 3: You know, it's you.

925
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 4: Cannot elevate the rules above people. And you know Carl

926
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 4: Toner was a stickler for rules certainly. And I don't

927
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 4: know if you remember this, the first firefight we were

928
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 4: in you probably don't remember this.

929
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:35,320
Speaker 3: We we were.

930
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 4: In that weird like mountainous like valley kind of thing.

931
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 3: It was.

932
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 4: It was a little bowl there, and and so I

933
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 4: was trying to raise battalion net. I was trying to

934
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 4: because I was still your radio operator at the time.

935
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 4: I was trying to get to the battalion to talk

936
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 4: to battalion so that you could, you know, relate to

937
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 4: them what was going on. And so we would use

938
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 4: a satellite deal for that. And this is like, this

939
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,760
Speaker 4: is pretty old school. So we had this little spider

940
00:43:57,800 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 4: looking thing that that I would set up a little

941
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 4: antenna and I have to point it just a certain.

942
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:03,479
Speaker 3: Way, and you look this manual and tells you this.

943
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 4: Is yeah, yeah, yeah, You're supposed to point it just

944
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 4: this way at this time of day and that kind

945
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 4: of thing.

946
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 3: And so I got I was pretty good at setting

947
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 3: the thing up.

948
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 4: I had done it enough times, but I would just

949
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 4: kind of estimate, you know, I'd say, Okay, I'm going

950
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:18,879
Speaker 4: to point it roughly in this direction. So so I'm

951
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 4: like under fire bullets whizn't passed, And I'm putting it

952
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:24,720
Speaker 4: up on top of the humby because that's the elevated

953
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 4: position where I can I can get it up, you know,

954
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 4: above the trees and whatnot. And I'm like, you know,

955
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 4: bullets coming past, I'm aiming this thing and I get

956
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 4: it pretty good and uh. And so I call on

957
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 4: to battalion and I got them, and it's just a

958
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:41,319
Speaker 4: little staticky, but it's I got them, and you know,

959
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 4: I explain what's going on, and I get the battalion

960
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 4: commander on, Colonel Toner, and he says, uh.

961
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 3: He says very calmly Thretty six Romeo Cat six. You

962
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 3: sound like you've got some calm problems.

963
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 4: You need to you need to fix your net call

964
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 4: me back under control, cap sticks out. I was like,

965
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 4: that was like that was my first that was my

966
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:08,280
Speaker 4: first combat failure.

967
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,840
Speaker 2: You know, it's like, yeah, we do have comms problems.

968
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 2: I'm getting my ass shot off down here.

969
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 3: Yeah. What you don't realize is getting this right may

970
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 3: cost my life. Is that really what you want?

971
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 4: And you know that's that's my point is that sometimes

972
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 4: you can elevate the rules above above, you know, common sense.

973
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 3: And I think that might have been one of those moments.

974
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 1: Well, I think, god, that was crazy. How much of

975
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 1: a pain in the ass with those tax SATs Like oh,

976
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 1: you know all.

977
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 4: Those antennas of satellites, they were.

978
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:41,399
Speaker 2: All resides those things.

979
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 1: It's like all you have to do is take is

980
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 1: take put together this mini satellite dish on the roof

981
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 1: of your try like if you like it comes in,

982
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: this comes in this sashle that you have to like

983
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: like you unzip it and you like put the base

984
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 1: down and you screw the middle part on and you

985
00:45:58,120 --> 00:45:59,800
Speaker 1: screw the top part on, and you have to a

986
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 1: just right to hit the satellite, Like, who the hell's

987
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 1: doing that in an ambush, like if you need to,

988
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 1: you know, you're trying to raise the tactical satellite phone.

989
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:10,800
Speaker 1: We would have FM comms and stuff that were secure,

990
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:13,720
Speaker 1: but a lot of that stuff in the mountainous areas.

991
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 1: It's a line of sight. Sometimes you can rebound a

992
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:20,919
Speaker 1: signal off of another truck or relay something, but it's

993
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 1: very unreliable, especially in a place like Afghanistan where you're

994
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 1: in you know, you've got a small unit in our

995
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 1: case a company minus in charge of an entire district.

996
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 2: You know, a huge border region.

997
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 1: Very unreliable, right, So, but the tactical satellite phone is

998
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 1: is how you talk to everybody else. And you know,

999
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,839
Speaker 1: one TA SAT linking up to a satellite can talk

1000
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 1: to our battalion base or even bogram that was one

1001
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,879
Speaker 1: hundred miles away. But here's the problem. I just told

1002
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 1: you how difficult it was to set up, and then

1003
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 1: when you're out in the field, you know, trying to

1004
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: set that, it's like, do you remember how just unreliable

1005
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 1: we'd be like on some observation posts in the middle

1006
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 1: of nowhere, and it like almost never worked. Almost never worked,

1007
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: you know.

1008
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, it's like it's like tinker toys and combat

1009
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 4: the whole thing. It's it's it was. It was always

1010
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 4: felt very shaky. So it just felt like the lowest

1011
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 4: bidder made this. You know, I don't know. To me,

1012
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 4: I was always I was was I was always skeptical

1013
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 4: that it would work. Honestly, it works and we get

1014
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 4: the job done, and we got the job done. But

1015
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 4: you know, if I don't think it's quite like people

1016
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 4: imagine when they watch the movies and everything. You know,

1017
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 4: they got the little computer that shows where the bad

1018
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 4: guys are, and it was almost never like that.

1019
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 1: It's never like that. In fact, something always goes wrong,

1020
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,280
Speaker 1: you know. I in that first fire fight, we couldn't

1021
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 1: get calms when they and it was a deliberate ambush

1022
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 1: for precisely that reason. They they shot us up as

1023
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: soon as we passed around hill top two four seven

1024
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 1: four Ganga Cow Hill, like right there. It was outside

1025
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:02,319
Speaker 1: of Malick Shay, right, that was Malax Shay was one

1026
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 1: in the south. So yeah, a couple a couple of

1027
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,760
Speaker 1: clicks from the border and come right around this huge,

1028
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 1: huge hill like the mountain steep as you could be

1029
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 1: it goes down to there's like a little gravy boat

1030
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 1: and then back up the hill. They ambush right at

1031
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 1: the base of the gravy boat, knowing right at the

1032
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 1: bottom of that gravy boat, knowing that that huge mountain

1033
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 1: would interrupt line of sight colms and you know, yeah,

1034
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:32,280
Speaker 1: it's uh crazy, crazy, crazy crazy. So tell me about

1035
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:36,840
Speaker 1: like what firefight stands out in your mind. Is having

1036
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 1: changed you or you know, is where you learned the

1037
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: most or was there a moment like that for you?

1038
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,240
Speaker 3: I think I don't. I don't know that I would say.

1039
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 4: I think I think it might be too much for

1040
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 4: me to say that there was a particular moment that

1041
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:53,720
Speaker 4: changed me. But I will tell you that on June tenth,

1042
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 4: at the outset, you know, it was very obvious that

1043
00:48:57,239 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 4: we were outnumber that you know, there's the volume of

1044
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:03,919
Speaker 4: fire was so heavy and you know, so many guys

1045
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 4: were dropping. It was it was it was obvious that

1046
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 4: we were in in a in a rough spot. And

1047
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 4: for me, and I'm not a defeatist, but you know,

1048
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 4: it occurred to me that that might be the end.

1049
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 4: And and for me it was like it wasn't I

1050
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 4: wouldn't exactly say that.

1051
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:23,479
Speaker 3: My life flashed before my eyes.

1052
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 4: But I thought, I thought about people I care about

1053
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 4: and do they know that I care about them? And

1054
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:31,280
Speaker 4: and and I I have tried.

1055
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 3: I don't. I'm not good at it. I'm not a very.

1056
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 4: Expressive person, I think, but I tried very hard to

1057
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 4: make sure people know that I care about them. And

1058
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 4: sometimes I get a little bit gushy, and you know,

1059
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 4: I can kind of I feel like I can kind

1060
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 4: of trace that back to that, because man, it's like

1061
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 4: it's just you know, you what's that there's an express

1062
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 4: there's a quote from from the famous Native American leader

1063
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 4: about about living a life that's that's you know that

1064
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 4: is worthwhile and that when your time comes that you're

1065
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 4: you're ready to go because you've know you've done You've

1066
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 4: done a lot.

1067
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 3: I can't remember the quote, but you know that's that

1068
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 3: was kind of where I was like, Ah, this is

1069
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:12,280
Speaker 3: I've I've.

1070
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 4: Not done everything I should have done, uh up to

1071
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 4: this point. So that was kind of that was that

1072
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 4: experience for me. And we had some close calls.

1073
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 3: Man.

1074
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 4: I I can remember running from because I was I wasn't.

1075
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 4: I hated that fight because I was halfway between being

1076
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 4: your radio operator and being in a rifle squad because

1077
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 4: I think I can't.

1078
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 3: I guess we were training up.

1079
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 2: You're about to get promoted. We were promoting you.

1080
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and so and so I was still responsible

1081
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 4: to be the radio operator, but I was also assigned

1082
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 4: to a rifle squad. So I was like torn the

1083
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,319
Speaker 4: whole time. And so I'm on the line with the

1084
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 4: rifle squad with wheat squad and and you know, just

1085
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 4: shooting back and then and then I realized I gotta go.

1086
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 4: I gotta go make sure that they got calm, because

1087
00:50:58,200 --> 00:50:59,839
Speaker 4: I felt like maybe I look back and could see

1088
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:02,800
Speaker 4: somebody like, you know, get angry with a radio or something.

1089
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 3: So so I get up and I'm running back.

1090
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 4: And as I'm run I'm kind of going uphill, and

1091
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 4: I'm running toward a humby to you know, to kind

1092
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 4: of go from one piece of cover to another. And

1093
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:16,840
Speaker 4: one of our gunners was up there and he's shooting

1094
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 4: a fifty cow and he kind of glances down as

1095
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 4: he sees me out of the corner of his eye

1096
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:23,280
Speaker 4: running up this hill, and his eyes get really wide

1097
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 4: and I could see the like the like the little

1098
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:27,839
Speaker 4: pieces of dirt kicking up off the ground in front

1099
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 4: of me, and the leaves are falling from the trees,

1100
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 4: you know, pine needles and stuff falling from the trees overhead,

1101
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:34,919
Speaker 4: and I'm running like you know, when you're a little

1102
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 4: kid you're about to get spanked, and you're like you're

1103
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 4: running with your butt like way out in front of

1104
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:40,840
Speaker 4: you so your parents can't whack it, you know. I

1105
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 4: was like I was kind of doing that, you know, like,

1106
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 4: you know, my legs are going faster than the rest

1107
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 4: of my body. And man, that was that was pretty wild.

1108
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 4: It was some pretty close calls.

1109
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 2: There, It really was.

1110
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 1: I mean, what an unbelievable lesson though you took from it.

1111
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:57,839
Speaker 1: Make sure the people that you know always know how

1112
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:01,919
Speaker 1: you feel about them. That's pretty amazing. I mean, what

1113
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 1: what were you afraid? What were you afraid of not

1114
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 1: having accomplished at that point?

1115
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:10,879
Speaker 3: Rob Uh that man?

1116
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:14,360
Speaker 4: Because I tell you if I were if if I

1117
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 4: were to describe my whole life, it would basically be

1118
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 4: a series of people, incredible people I've been blessed to know.

1119
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 4: This is something to take me most of my life

1120
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 4: up till now to figure out. Is that my my

1121
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:31,800
Speaker 4: my God given blessing is has been the people around

1122
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 4: me and uh, and so my life is just a

1123
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 4: series of milestones that are represented by different people. Uh,

1124
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 4: just incredible friends and family and and uh, to have

1125
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:45,360
Speaker 4: those kinds of people in your life and then to

1126
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:48,399
Speaker 4: not you know, you know, how you drift away from

1127
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 4: people and you just you don't see them for a

1128
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:52,399
Speaker 4: while just because you forget to call and they forget

1129
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:54,279
Speaker 4: to call and that kind of thing. And of course

1130
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 4: back then communication is even more difficult. That was kind

1131
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 4: of before social media, and I don't know, I just

1132
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 4: I just felt like I just felt like it wasn't

1133
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:06,239
Speaker 4: right to leave people hanging like that. And that's still

1134
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 4: I mean, that's still the defining that's the defining an

1135
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 4: aspect of my life is just I've got incredible people

1136
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 4: in my life.

1137
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 2: That's an amazing life. Lesson, Rob and I.

1138
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 1: I really really hope that the people that are watching

1139
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 1: and listening to this take that to heart, because you know,

1140
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 1: you're over there and life is just so fragile and

1141
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 1: we learned at a very young age how fast it

1142
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:31,839
Speaker 1: could go. And you know, most and this is why

1143
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 1: I always say to people who ask me questions about

1144
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 1: what it was like or what it was like coming home.

1145
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 1: You know, you're twenty something and you end up going

1146
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 1: through a deployment that we went through, and I mean,

1147
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:47,399
Speaker 1: you have the wisdom of somebody who is in their

1148
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 1: seventies or eighties and a completely different phase of life,

1149
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:53,239
Speaker 1: who is who death could come at any day, at

1150
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:56,839
Speaker 1: any moment, their friends are passing away. You know, it's

1151
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:01,160
Speaker 1: just that specter is that this you know, that hand

1152
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 1: of death is just close. So that's how it is

1153
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 1: in combat. It's that's always there, It's right there. And

1154
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 1: you learn that it's a twenty something. It's like you

1155
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 1: thinking that you know, my son, who again is fourteen,

1156
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 1: and you know that's ten years away for he'd be

1157
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 1: way thinking it was way too young to have to

1158
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:20,000
Speaker 1: experience something like that.

1159
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:22,239
Speaker 2: But we were. We were young, and we experienced it.

1160
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:24,600
Speaker 1: And you know, one of the things that I was

1161
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 1: afraid of it and like it was a completely irrational fear,

1162
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 1: completely irrational, but it rob it's scared the shit out

1163
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:34,360
Speaker 1: of me. Was like, if I die here, I have

1164
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 1: no legacy, nothing, no who who you know I have?

1165
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,640
Speaker 1: I'll have like my family who loves me, they'll be sad,

1166
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 1: my friends who care about me. They'll be sad, but

1167
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 1: for how long, you know, I mean, maybe your parents

1168
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 1: will it's always there, you know, it's always there. They'll

1169
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:56,400
Speaker 1: they will always still think of you every day. But

1170
00:54:57,480 --> 00:54:59,839
Speaker 1: you know, do you ever think you ever think about that?

1171
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 1: Eventually people move on, you know, And I'm like, I

1172
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:06,319
Speaker 1: don't have any kids, I don't have a family, I

1173
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:10,240
Speaker 1: have no legacy. If I'm gone, my life, my story,

1174
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:12,360
Speaker 1: everything that I've ever wanted to do is gone. And

1175
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 1: that's something that another thing that I couldn't escape thinking

1176
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 1: about all the time. And I don't lose sleep about

1177
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 1: over this stuff. This isn't like, oh, you know, I

1178
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 1: struggle with this. It's not like that. It's just that

1179
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 1: when you kill someone. Every time we killed somebody over there,

1180
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:29,799
Speaker 1: I mean we did kill a lot of enemy soldiers, rob,

1181
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I swear to god, we were an unbelievably

1182
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 1: lethal and effective infantry platoon. I mean we just our

1183
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 1: company as a whole was great, too, but we just

1184
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 1: we were there for so long. We got to know

1185
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:42,719
Speaker 1: the terrain a hell of a lot better than the

1186
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 1: enemy did.

1187
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:43,720
Speaker 2: It was crazy.

1188
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 1: We were killing them so fast that the replacements didn't

1189
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 1: know the terrain as well as we did. It was

1190
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:52,799
Speaker 1: the strangest dynamic in the world. But when you end

1191
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 1: somebody's life, you end everything that they were, that they

1192
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:57,640
Speaker 1: are and that they'll ever be moving forward. And that

1193
00:55:57,760 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 1: was just a real trippy thing for me.

1194
00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:00,279
Speaker 2: You know.

1195
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's uh, there's a quote.

1196
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:04,799
Speaker 4: I know I always quote movies and TV, but there's

1197
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:08,759
Speaker 4: a quote in and and the the movie Unforgiven, uh

1198
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 4: with with what's his name Clint Eastwood. Yeah, yeah, there's

1199
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 4: a there's a guy that's a young guy who kills

1200
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,600
Speaker 4: this first man and uh, he says, I killed that guy.

1201
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:22,440
Speaker 4: He said, yeah, he a thank killing a man you

1202
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:25,879
Speaker 4: take away everything everything has ever ever will have and

1203
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 4: uh and he said, yeah, well he had it come

1204
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:29,719
Speaker 4: and didn't he? And he says, we all have a

1205
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:32,759
Speaker 4: common kid. And that's kind of how I feel.

1206
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:32,960
Speaker 3: You know.

1207
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 4: There there were some bad people we fought, and they

1208
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:37,400
Speaker 4: they needed to be they needed to be removed from

1209
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 4: this earth. Man, But there are probably some people that

1210
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:42,000
Speaker 4: were just soldiers and they had they had kids who

1211
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 4: were waiting on them, and you know, and and uh.

1212
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 3: We killed him. And that's I don't I don't think

1213
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 3: it's something to be ashamed of.

1214
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:51,800
Speaker 4: I think a soldier does his duty, but I also

1215
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 4: think that it's something to consider when people when people

1216
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:58,600
Speaker 4: recognize soldiers. I think that I think that we're we've

1217
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:02,239
Speaker 4: America is learning a lot of lessons right now about

1218
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:04,719
Speaker 4: how to acknowledge our veterans and how to acknowledge our

1219
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 4: military in the right way. And Vietnam obviously was the

1220
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 4: wrong way. They were people came home, they were being

1221
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 4: they were being spit on and uh, disrespected for doing

1222
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:15,440
Speaker 4: what they felt like was a duty to the people

1223
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 4: they loved and cared about.

1224
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 1: Uh.

1225
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:19,200
Speaker 4: They wanted to they wanted to meet the wolf at

1226
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:23,680
Speaker 4: the door. And I think those people have sense. Those

1227
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 4: those people from the Vietnam generation, probably a lot of

1228
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 4: Vietnam veterans, have helped to swing the pendulum in the

1229
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 4: other way to where soldiers are acknowledged very very with

1230
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:37,400
Speaker 4: a lot of respect. And Uh there's good in that,

1231
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 4: and I think there is some bad in that. I

1232
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:41,240
Speaker 4: think sometimes we have guys who are a little bit

1233
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 4: entitled as veterans, and that's something that they.

1234
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 3: Sure have to guard against because we are different.

1235
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 4: You know, we're a minority and so to speak, and

1236
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 4: you have to guard against that that feeling that, you know,

1237
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 4: feeling sorry for yourself or feeling aggrieved in some way.

1238
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:56,959
Speaker 4: And it's not it's not a good way to live life,

1239
00:57:57,000 --> 00:58:01,240
Speaker 4: even if it's true. But then there's also situations where

1240
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 4: you know, there are soldiers' statues being taken down for

1241
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 4: this reason or that reason, mostly political. And you know,

1242
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 4: a soldier is not who they fight for. A soldier

1243
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:15,920
Speaker 4: is a soldier, and that's it. When you volunteer to fight,

1244
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 4: you didn't say I'll fight given these particular circumstances. You

1245
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:21,920
Speaker 4: didn't sign a contract that said I'll only go and

1246
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:25,080
Speaker 4: fight in this kind of this kind of conflict. You said,

1247
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 4: wherever America as a republic sends me, that's where I'll go.

1248
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:31,720
Speaker 4: Whether I agree with it politically or don't agree with it.

1249
00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 4: It's a republic, and I will go when I am sent.

1250
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 4: And that's what America soldiers have always done, whether they

1251
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 4: fight for their the US or they fight for their

1252
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:44,360
Speaker 4: state in the Civil War, and and and those are

1253
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 4: soldiers who are doing a duty and they deserve respect.

1254
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 1: It's it's a very interesting perspective rod because I do

1255
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:54,880
Speaker 1: think that you know, there's a reason why they call

1256
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 1: soldiers gis. And it's like government issue. It's it's you're

1257
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 1: not making the decision to go. You're just you love

1258
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 1: your country and they're sending you you're not. You're the

1259
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 1: last fifty meters of you know, foreign policy, in some

1260
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:18,360
Speaker 1: cases failed foreign policy. That's that's fascinating. You really got

1261
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:21,400
Speaker 1: me thinking here. And I think when you're talking about

1262
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:25,000
Speaker 1: removing statues, you're talking about removing Confederate soldiers, Confederate generals,

1263
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 1: things like that.

1264
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:28,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll tell you what though, I don't. I don't celebrate.

1265
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 4: I don't like the idea of statues of any people

1266
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 4: in public places.

1267
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:34,160
Speaker 3: I'm not a huge fan of that. I don't.

1268
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:38,160
Speaker 4: I don't think that any individuals should be elevated too much.

1269
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 4: You know, I believe in the Enlightenment, guys like Frederick

1270
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:43,840
Speaker 4: the Great, who didn't even wear any metals on his uniform,

1271
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:48,560
Speaker 4: just there's a plain blue tunic, and you know, George Washington,

1272
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 4: these types that that didn't didn't they didn't live for all.

1273
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:53,520
Speaker 3: The decoration of pomp and circumstance.

1274
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 4: But when you've got soldiers, when you've got statues that

1275
00:59:57,280 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 4: represent the soldiers in general, and you're tearing that down,

1276
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:03,200
Speaker 4: you know, just the average Confederate soldier and you're tearing

1277
01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 4: that down. I got a problem with that man, because

1278
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 4: I don't think you know, it's because even as the

1279
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:14,560
Speaker 4: cause for which they were fighting politically was very unpopular

1280
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:16,840
Speaker 4: and it should have been unpopular the Confederacy, you deserve

1281
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:19,680
Speaker 4: to lose that battle. But you know why, there are

1282
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 4: a lot of people who didn't believe in US fight

1283
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,720
Speaker 4: in Afghanistan, and it's just a matter of time or Iraq,

1284
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 4: you know, it's just amount of time before statues of

1285
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 4: our guys.

1286
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:27,160
Speaker 3: Were being torn down.

1287
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 4: And because that's for consistency, that's where that goes.

1288
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:34,760
Speaker 2: I agree, Rob, I do. It's hard to argue with

1289
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:35,400
Speaker 2: that logic.

1290
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 1: And you talked about we have to guard against an

1291
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 1: entitlement thinking. I completely agree. What I have learned in

1292
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 1: my forty one short years on this earth is that

1293
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 1: really the road to unhappiness in life is paid paved

1294
01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 1: with on entitlement thinking. And there are a lot of

1295
01:00:56,880 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 1: veterans who come home and hey, I'm different than you,

1296
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:00,840
Speaker 1: screw you, I'm better than you.

1297
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 2: I fought you didn't.

1298
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 1: There are there just are, and that is something that

1299
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 1: our community needs to stop doing because the reality is

1300
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:12,720
Speaker 1: we're servants of America, and being a servant requires no.

1301
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:14,920
Speaker 2: At its core.

1302
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:18,840
Speaker 1: Now, I'm not saying that veterans deserve no recognition because

1303
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 1: they we do. We're different and we do get recognition.

1304
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:25,320
Speaker 1: We I mean we have the VA Hospital. I mean

1305
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:27,240
Speaker 1: it has lots of problems. I mean, I get it,

1306
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 1: and we're always looking to improve it. But it's a

1307
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 1: multi billion dollar healthcare system in every state in the

1308
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:34,280
Speaker 1: country that's intended to take care of veterans and they

1309
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 1: come home.

1310
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 2: Most countries don't have that.

1311
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 1: It's as flawed as the VA is as some of

1312
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:43,120
Speaker 1: some of the policies, of course need to change to

1313
01:01:43,160 --> 01:01:46,680
Speaker 1: make it better, but it's there, and almost everywhere we go,

1314
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:49,560
Speaker 1: people are thanking us further for our service. Thank you,

1315
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, thank you. And again, many of

1316
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 1: these changes were brought on by Vietnam veterans who did

1317
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 1: not have that courtesy extended to them when they came home.

1318
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:00,439
Speaker 3: And they could have been better.

1319
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:03,200
Speaker 4: They could have been bitter and just dismissed us, dismissed,

1320
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 4: you know, the whole thing. But they chose to do

1321
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:09,560
Speaker 4: what was not done for them and celebrate American soldiert.

1322
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:12,000
Speaker 2: You know what I don't like Rob as well, I can't.

1323
01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:19,520
Speaker 1: What bothers me is the the culture pushing the narrative

1324
01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 1: that war somehow breaks us and we come back and

1325
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:26,360
Speaker 1: we need Oh. Like before I ran for office, I'd

1326
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 1: like I was a public figure and I would be

1327
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:30,560
Speaker 1: asked to speak at these political events, and these politicians

1328
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:33,000
Speaker 1: would come up to me and be like, oh, oh,

1329
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:35,400
Speaker 1: thank you so much for your service, like I'm some

1330
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:37,440
Speaker 1: sort of victim. I'd be like, dude, get the hell

1331
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:39,560
Speaker 1: away from me. Man, I asked to do this, I

1332
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:41,720
Speaker 1: volunteered to go. I would do it again in a

1333
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 1: second if this country was ever threatened. I'm not broken

1334
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:49,240
Speaker 1: by my experience, not at all. On the contrary, that

1335
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 1: experience made me a better person. It may be a

1336
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:54,400
Speaker 1: better father, It made me a better leader. Now, of course,

1337
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:58,440
Speaker 1: what comes with any experience in life or positive and negative,

1338
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 1: right if you if? Of course, of course, combat changes

1339
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:06,280
Speaker 1: you and lots of very very deep seated existential ways,

1340
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:07,400
Speaker 1: no doubt about it.

1341
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:09,240
Speaker 2: You look back at yourself when you.

1342
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:11,360
Speaker 1: Were a freshman, and then you graduate as a senior

1343
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:13,960
Speaker 1: in high school. Right, So you're graduating, walking across the

1344
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:16,480
Speaker 1: stage getting your diploma, and you look at a picture

1345
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 1: of yourself when you're a freshman. Most of the time

1346
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:22,000
Speaker 1: you're thinking like, holy shit, what was I thinking? What

1347
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:23,920
Speaker 1: was I doing? I was total I was an idiot

1348
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:28,960
Speaker 1: back then, you know, because experiences change us and combats

1349
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:32,400
Speaker 1: an experience, right, there's lots of lots of very negative

1350
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:35,720
Speaker 1: stuff there, and emotionally charged stuff and loss of life,

1351
01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:38,760
Speaker 1: like very life and death stuff, but there are positive

1352
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:40,680
Speaker 1: things with it as well. I volunteer for it. I

1353
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:42,760
Speaker 1: do it again. I'm proud of my service there. So

1354
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:46,560
Speaker 1: stop treating me like I'm broken. You know, I am

1355
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:50,120
Speaker 1: not a victim. I volunteered. And you see this narrative

1356
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:54,680
Speaker 1: pushed in our culture everywhere in our movies broken combat

1357
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:58,080
Speaker 1: term comes home, he's broken by PTSD, he's volatile, he's

1358
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:01,479
Speaker 1: three seconds away from class. I make a freaking clock

1359
01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:03,080
Speaker 1: tower with a sniper rifle or something.

1360
01:04:03,080 --> 01:04:04,840
Speaker 2: Again, give me a break. It's ridiculous.

1361
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:08,560
Speaker 1: Uh. And you see our statues were of like a

1362
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:12,040
Speaker 1: military veteran, like holding a flag, and you're just like,

1363
01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:15,040
Speaker 1: come on, man, take a knee, drink water, face out.

1364
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:18,720
Speaker 1: You still have a mission, you know, and that mission is,

1365
01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:22,520
Speaker 1: you know, continuing to serve America, continuing to serve your

1366
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:26,640
Speaker 1: fellow community. Because while I think that the pathway to

1367
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:30,680
Speaker 1: unhappiness as life is paid with entitlement, thinking the pathway

1368
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:34,440
Speaker 1: to living a life filled with meeting is service to others,

1369
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:37,920
Speaker 1: to your family, to whatever your religion, your faith, whatever,

1370
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:44,480
Speaker 1: And just upsets me when society and culturally and in

1371
01:04:44,520 --> 01:04:47,480
Speaker 1: our movies and in the media, we're just combat veterans

1372
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:51,240
Speaker 1: are immediately assumed to be a little bit broken and

1373
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:52,360
Speaker 1: it just bothers me.

1374
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:56,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, and the effects are there, you know, there

1375
01:04:56,400 --> 01:05:01,480
Speaker 4: are oft a negative psychological and physical effects, but it

1376
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:04,120
Speaker 4: doesn't it doesn't doesn't mean that's who you're gonna be.

1377
01:05:04,200 --> 01:05:07,360
Speaker 4: You know, you life is not is not trying to

1378
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:11,960
Speaker 4: make your your disadvantages your identity. It's it's overcoming them

1379
01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:14,520
Speaker 4: and finding new strength as a result of it. You know,

1380
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:17,080
Speaker 4: my my grandfather talked about him last time, and he

1381
01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:19,000
Speaker 4: was in some of the toughest fighting the world has

1382
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:23,560
Speaker 4: ever seen, and and you know, he chose to be

1383
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:26,760
Speaker 4: somebody who was kind. I think maybe once ever did

1384
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:28,560
Speaker 4: I hear him raise his voice. My brother and I

1385
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:30,760
Speaker 4: were like going at it, fighting each other in the

1386
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:32,920
Speaker 4: back of the vehicle or whatever, and that was the.

1387
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:34,600
Speaker 3: Only you know, just stop your quarrel. And that was

1388
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:34,840
Speaker 3: like the.

1389
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:38,200
Speaker 4: Most I ever heard him raise his voice. He was

1390
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:40,920
Speaker 4: he was a kind person. He was a very you know,

1391
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:46,080
Speaker 4: cool under under pressure, supportive of of his friends and family. Uh,

1392
01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:49,640
Speaker 4: just just the kind of person anybody would admire. And

1393
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 4: you know, it's not like it's not like the war

1394
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 4: was behind him. On his deathbed. Uh, he was dying

1395
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:57,240
Speaker 4: of cancer, and you know, you get a little bit loopy,

1396
01:05:57,280 --> 01:05:58,760
Speaker 4: I think under those circumstances.

1397
01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:00,840
Speaker 3: And he was in his.

1398
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:05,680
Speaker 4: Bedroom, plugged into you know, ivs and things like that,

1399
01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:08,120
Speaker 4: and he woke up in the night, was disoriented. He

1400
01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:10,440
Speaker 4: pulled him out and so now he's bleeding from his

1401
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:15,240
Speaker 4: iv ports and my parents heard him yelling, I've been shot.

1402
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:15,880
Speaker 3: I've been shot.

1403
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:19,320
Speaker 4: In his mind he had gone back to Germany and

1404
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:21,880
Speaker 4: was wounded again. He had been wounded twice in World

1405
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:23,840
Speaker 4: War Two, and he was in his mind he was

1406
01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:25,320
Speaker 4: back on the battlefield wounded.

1407
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:29,160
Speaker 3: And so it's not like it's not like that wasn't

1408
01:06:29,160 --> 01:06:29,600
Speaker 3: still there.

1409
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:32,800
Speaker 4: It's not like he didn't have disadvantages that came from

1410
01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:36,400
Speaker 4: the experiences he had. But he chose to he chose

1411
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:39,200
Speaker 4: to be somebody that that showed the opposite side of

1412
01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:41,440
Speaker 4: that coin and to be somebody who was kind and

1413
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:44,080
Speaker 4: gentle and set an example for everybody.

1414
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:49,680
Speaker 1: Wow, that is that's something. What an incredible guy. You know,

1415
01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:52,000
Speaker 1: he was an incredible guy that you are. Obviously your

1416
01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:54,960
Speaker 1: parents are lucky to have you. And I mean, so,

1417
01:06:56,680 --> 01:07:00,680
Speaker 1: speaking of transitioning out of the military, tell me, tell

1418
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:03,400
Speaker 1: us a little bit about where people can find you.

1419
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:06,360
Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about what you're doing now

1420
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:07,400
Speaker 1: to help people get out.

1421
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:13,440
Speaker 4: Well, so I've co founded an organization called Claymore Operations.

1422
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:17,880
Speaker 4: And basically what happened. I got out of the military,

1423
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:21,000
Speaker 4: and I had a plan for myself career wise, and.

1424
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:21,760
Speaker 3: It was a bad plan.

1425
01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:25,400
Speaker 4: But where I was you know, sometimes you just you

1426
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:27,280
Speaker 4: just you know, you're in the in the middle of

1427
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:29,400
Speaker 4: the desert and you say, oops, I took a wrong turn,

1428
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:33,760
Speaker 4: very very far back behind me. And I was just fortunate,

1429
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:36,840
Speaker 4: Like I said, my blessing on this earth has been

1430
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:39,600
Speaker 4: to be surrounded by just incredible people. I think, you know,

1431
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:41,960
Speaker 4: I used to always think, what is my talent? I

1432
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:44,080
Speaker 4: had friends who could play the drums and could do

1433
01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:45,880
Speaker 4: this well and do that well, and I never felt

1434
01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:47,440
Speaker 4: like I had a talent. And then I realized, oh,

1435
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:50,920
Speaker 4: I'm surrounded by talented people. That's my talent. I surround

1436
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:54,720
Speaker 4: myself with talented people, and and that means that I

1437
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:56,840
Speaker 4: have an advantage in the sense that they can share

1438
01:07:56,880 --> 01:07:58,840
Speaker 4: their wisdom with me, and they can you know, they

1439
01:07:58,840 --> 01:08:03,560
Speaker 4: can provide mutual support in that way. And that was

1440
01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:05,960
Speaker 4: what I had. I had when I was finished in school.

1441
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:08,320
Speaker 4: I was kind of, you know, a little bit of

1442
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:11,240
Speaker 4: lost in terms of direction. And I had some friends

1443
01:08:11,240 --> 01:08:14,880
Speaker 4: who came in and mentored me, and so what we have,

1444
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:17,320
Speaker 4: what we found was that it made a huge difference.

1445
01:08:17,320 --> 01:08:18,560
Speaker 4: And I had one of my buddies, one of the

1446
01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:20,840
Speaker 4: guys from out Leupleton, called me and he had been

1447
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:23,280
Speaker 4: in for something like ten years at that point, and.

1448
01:08:23,280 --> 01:08:25,040
Speaker 3: He said, a man, I didn't go to school while

1449
01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:25,919
Speaker 3: I was in the army.

1450
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:27,479
Speaker 4: And so now I'm might have to work on a

1451
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:29,360
Speaker 4: salt mine or something, you know, because the star from

1452
01:08:29,360 --> 01:08:32,600
Speaker 4: scratch and it just it made me sick because he

1453
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:34,760
Speaker 4: was like one of the best people I knew, and

1454
01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:36,920
Speaker 4: I knew the he had gained so much experience and

1455
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:38,920
Speaker 4: so much there was so much of value that he

1456
01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:41,479
Speaker 4: had gained in his time in the military and with

1457
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:44,000
Speaker 4: the experience he had. He could take a job in

1458
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:47,519
Speaker 4: middle management at any company in America and and they

1459
01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:50,760
Speaker 4: would be fortunate to have him. He just couldn't see it.

1460
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:52,840
Speaker 4: And I felt like if he had a mentor like

1461
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:55,240
Speaker 4: I did looking over his shoulder, that he would be

1462
01:08:55,280 --> 01:08:57,720
Speaker 4: in so much better situation. So what we created is

1463
01:08:57,720 --> 01:08:59,960
Speaker 4: claim more operations, and what we do is we provide mentors.

1464
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:02,200
Speaker 3: We actually do mentorship for active.

1465
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:06,080
Speaker 4: Military people active duty military and so while they're still

1466
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:09,880
Speaker 4: in the military, as early as possible, we connect military

1467
01:09:09,880 --> 01:09:12,559
Speaker 4: people with mentors and actually two mentors. So each what

1468
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:15,920
Speaker 4: we call warfighter, which is our mentee. Each each war

1469
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:19,760
Speaker 4: fighter has two mentors. One is a military veteran and

1470
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:22,280
Speaker 4: one is a civilian, and that gives two different perspective.

1471
01:09:22,320 --> 01:09:24,200
Speaker 4: It's like crossing a bridge. You want somebody on each

1472
01:09:24,280 --> 01:09:29,080
Speaker 4: side of that bridge. And you know, we have found

1473
01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:31,320
Speaker 4: that it's just it just makes such a difference. And

1474
01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:35,439
Speaker 4: when you have that whole military career as a runway

1475
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:38,080
Speaker 4: to be able to start to build a new purpose

1476
01:09:38,160 --> 01:09:40,000
Speaker 4: after your military time, because you can want me in

1477
01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:41,760
Speaker 4: the military for so long. You know, whether it's an

1478
01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:44,479
Speaker 4: injury or whatever it is. Everybody gets out of the

1479
01:09:44,479 --> 01:09:46,439
Speaker 4: military eventually, and they're going to need a new purpose.

1480
01:09:46,800 --> 01:09:48,640
Speaker 4: You know your purpose when you're on the battlefield. You

1481
01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:51,160
Speaker 4: know your purpose. We want them to know their purpose

1482
01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:53,720
Speaker 4: when they come off of the battlefield. And just like

1483
01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:56,680
Speaker 4: you said, that service should not end at the end

1484
01:09:56,720 --> 01:09:58,160
Speaker 4: of at the end of you know, when they take

1485
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:00,479
Speaker 4: that uniform off, that's not when your service in. You

1486
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:03,080
Speaker 4: just need a new purpose. And that purpose can't be

1487
01:10:03,200 --> 01:10:05,040
Speaker 4: a goal for yourself. So you say, well, I want

1488
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:08,040
Speaker 4: to have a Lamborghini. Okay, that's a perfectly reasonable goal.

1489
01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:11,320
Speaker 4: You can get a Lamborghini. Work hard, get a Lamborghini.

1490
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:15,679
Speaker 4: But that's not purpose. Purpose is I am achieving goals

1491
01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:19,280
Speaker 4: for myself and for my family, and I am helping

1492
01:10:19,320 --> 01:10:22,720
Speaker 4: others achieve their goals. I am making myself indispensable in

1493
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:26,599
Speaker 4: the community. And that's what that's what we build our mentees,

1494
01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:29,880
Speaker 4: our war fighters to become. We we connect them with

1495
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:34,839
Speaker 4: those mentors and over time through weekly or monthly calls

1496
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:39,280
Speaker 4: because military people are all over the world. Through those calls,

1497
01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:43,200
Speaker 4: they're able to build a network so they have connection

1498
01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:47,040
Speaker 4: and start to make a plan for themselves so they

1499
01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:48,240
Speaker 4: know what to do when they get out, so that

1500
01:10:48,280 --> 01:10:50,559
Speaker 4: they have that purpose so that they can see their

1501
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:53,040
Speaker 4: next mission and we feel like it just makes a

1502
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:53,799
Speaker 4: huge difference.

1503
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:58,200
Speaker 1: That is so smart to begin the process while they're

1504
01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:00,439
Speaker 1: still in, because you know when you're in and whether

1505
01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:03,960
Speaker 1: you're leading troops, is an officer or enlisted or non

1506
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:07,400
Speaker 1: commissioned officer, you're so it's such a job. It's like

1507
01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:09,599
Speaker 1: a twenty four to seventh thing. You're always on call

1508
01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:15,040
Speaker 1: no matter what, even when you're off. But to be

1509
01:11:15,160 --> 01:11:18,799
Speaker 1: able to have somebody to talk to on a semi

1510
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:21,000
Speaker 1: regular basis, it's like, hey, maybe you should have an

1511
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:21,719
Speaker 1: eye towards.

1512
01:11:21,560 --> 01:11:23,960
Speaker 2: This too, or what do you like?

1513
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:26,639
Speaker 1: Maybe you should take this test and when you get out,

1514
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:28,720
Speaker 1: maybe I can connect you with this person in this

1515
01:11:28,840 --> 01:11:31,360
Speaker 1: industry that you can start building a relationship with. Now.

1516
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:35,200
Speaker 1: That is so smart because what happens is these guys

1517
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:38,960
Speaker 1: get out and men and women get out, and especially

1518
01:11:38,960 --> 01:11:40,760
Speaker 1: after a tough combat deployment, they're like.

1519
01:11:40,680 --> 01:11:41,200
Speaker 2: I'm out of here.

1520
01:11:41,200 --> 01:11:43,479
Speaker 1: I'm popping smoke as fast as possible. Turn all their

1521
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:47,280
Speaker 1: stuff in at the hell is that place called? See

1522
01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:50,439
Speaker 1: you turn all your equipment in? You got to clear

1523
01:11:50,439 --> 01:11:55,040
Speaker 1: the CIF. Remember the CIF at Fort Drumm with like

1524
01:11:55,120 --> 01:12:02,040
Speaker 1: fifteen shopping carts of cold weather gear nonetheless clear cif

1525
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:04,240
Speaker 1: and they're gone in two days, and like that, then

1526
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:05,160
Speaker 1: they're out.

1527
01:12:05,560 --> 01:12:06,800
Speaker 2: Men one.

1528
01:12:07,040 --> 01:12:08,600
Speaker 3: So well, in a lot of these guys going to

1529
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:09,960
Speaker 3: the military with a lot of baggage.

1530
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:12,519
Speaker 4: Man, they go into the military looking for something new,

1531
01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:13,200
Speaker 4: a new direction.

1532
01:12:13,280 --> 01:12:15,040
Speaker 3: They got a lot of baggage. They get out of

1533
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:16,720
Speaker 3: the military, they go right back to that baggage, they

1534
01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:18,280
Speaker 3: pick it back up and they take it with them.

1535
01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:21,080
Speaker 4: And you know, we wonder why they're killing themselves and

1536
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:23,840
Speaker 4: they just don't have they've lost that purpose. They had

1537
01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:25,720
Speaker 4: the purpose while they were in the military. Now they've

1538
01:12:25,760 --> 01:12:27,320
Speaker 4: lost it. They're back to where they started. And we

1539
01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:29,880
Speaker 4: can't let that happen. We cannot let that happen. And

1540
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:34,440
Speaker 4: the only way, the only solution is connection. It's people relationships,

1541
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:37,080
Speaker 4: and that's where what we do is relational. It's not transactional.

1542
01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:39,040
Speaker 4: It's not a certain number of phone calls and get

1543
01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:41,360
Speaker 4: you a job. It's not that at all. That these

1544
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:43,880
Speaker 4: mentees have different things they're looking for. We had one

1545
01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:47,960
Speaker 4: she was an officer, she was a pharmacist in the

1546
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:51,840
Speaker 4: in the military, and she had everything going for she

1547
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:54,519
Speaker 4: just she just had so many different directions she wanted

1548
01:12:54,560 --> 01:12:56,599
Speaker 4: to go. She just needed a little bit of you know,

1549
01:12:56,680 --> 01:12:59,360
Speaker 4: narrowing things down. We had one guy he was getting

1550
01:12:59,400 --> 01:13:03,360
Speaker 4: out and he was gonna retire, retire, and and he

1551
01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:07,120
Speaker 4: was gonna he was a very sociable, outgoing person and

1552
01:13:07,160 --> 01:13:08,280
Speaker 4: he was going to go live on.

1553
01:13:08,200 --> 01:13:10,200
Speaker 3: Like a farm in the middle of nowhere. And we're like,

1554
01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:12,080
Speaker 3: he's like, you, we need to build.

1555
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:13,840
Speaker 4: You a network, buddy, because you're gonna you know, you're

1556
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:17,320
Speaker 4: gonna drive your wife crazy, and you know. And then

1557
01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:19,639
Speaker 4: we got some guys that are just you know, they're

1558
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:21,880
Speaker 4: they're they're young, and they don't know, they don't know

1559
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:24,360
Speaker 4: what's what, and and they need a little bit more guidance.

1560
01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:26,400
Speaker 4: And uh, we've just found a little bit of everything.

1561
01:13:26,439 --> 01:13:29,040
Speaker 4: But what we what we really aim for is to

1562
01:13:29,360 --> 01:13:31,160
Speaker 4: is to elevate them. We talked about some of the

1563
01:13:31,160 --> 01:13:34,200
Speaker 4: political stuff last time, and I just believe that we

1564
01:13:34,240 --> 01:13:36,960
Speaker 4: can solve so many of our problems in our society

1565
01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:40,280
Speaker 4: by putting people who know what it is to sacrifice,

1566
01:13:40,320 --> 01:13:42,600
Speaker 4: they know what it is to to be responsible and

1567
01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:45,400
Speaker 4: and perform a duty, and to put them in a

1568
01:13:45,400 --> 01:13:47,960
Speaker 4: more of an elevated position to have him aim higher

1569
01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:50,240
Speaker 4: for a higher mission. When they get out that way,

1570
01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:53,799
Speaker 4: they can take on responsibilities that other people are abdicating.

1571
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:57,479
Speaker 4: And you know, we're the only organization in America doing

1572
01:13:57,520 --> 01:14:00,479
Speaker 4: this for active military who are still in We're the

1573
01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:04,120
Speaker 4: only ones doing this. And it's just we've got tremendous mentors.

1574
01:14:04,160 --> 01:14:08,840
Speaker 4: We've got uh C suite, you know, executives who are mentoring,

1575
01:14:08,920 --> 01:14:12,519
Speaker 4: and we've got just incredible people who are you know,

1576
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:16,920
Speaker 4: retired generals, people who have so much to offer. And

1577
01:14:16,960 --> 01:14:19,559
Speaker 4: I would say that most of your listeners probably uh

1578
01:14:19,600 --> 01:14:21,760
Speaker 4: they've you know, reached a certain age, a certain you know,

1579
01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:23,200
Speaker 4: they've achieved goals in their life.

1580
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:25,120
Speaker 3: They probably have a lot to offer.

1581
01:14:25,560 --> 01:14:28,559
Speaker 4: And you know, if you feel like you support our military,

1582
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:30,559
Speaker 4: you feel like you want to do something, you want

1583
01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:34,439
Speaker 4: to show, uh, show how you you are grateful for

1584
01:14:34,479 --> 01:14:38,960
Speaker 4: that service. You know, volunteer to volunteer your time, Volunteer

1585
01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:41,360
Speaker 4: to be a mentor because you have a lot to offer.

1586
01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:45,080
Speaker 4: And most people I have found are very happy to

1587
01:14:45,120 --> 01:14:46,960
Speaker 4: share their wisdom. They're happy to share the things that

1588
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:50,120
Speaker 4: they know. And these young guys don't know to ask.

1589
01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:53,000
Speaker 4: And that's what we're doing. We're just matching the two together.

1590
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:57,360
Speaker 1: How can people help outside of volunteering. Is there a

1591
01:14:57,360 --> 01:14:59,679
Speaker 1: way people I wanted people want to contribute to nonprofit?

1592
01:14:59,800 --> 01:15:00,000
Speaker 3: Right?

1593
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:03,280
Speaker 4: It is nonprofit, so everything there's no cost to our

1594
01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:06,920
Speaker 4: our mentees or no cost to our mentors. Everything that

1595
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:09,759
Speaker 4: we all of our costs are are paid for by donors.

1596
01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:11,920
Speaker 4: So if you like to make a donation, you can

1597
01:15:11,960 --> 01:15:15,880
Speaker 4: do so on our website at claymoreops dot org and

1598
01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:19,519
Speaker 4: there's just a donate button. Like I said, everything we

1599
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:22,320
Speaker 4: do is from donations. We've been blessed to have people

1600
01:15:22,360 --> 01:15:25,080
Speaker 4: who have been right behind our mission making donations from

1601
01:15:25,080 --> 01:15:27,360
Speaker 4: the start, and we'd love to have you part.

1602
01:15:27,200 --> 01:15:27,719
Speaker 3: Of the mission.

1603
01:15:28,200 --> 01:15:31,839
Speaker 1: This is I think it's a great a great idea,

1604
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:35,040
Speaker 1: Rob And you are you're a special American man. I've

1605
01:15:35,080 --> 01:15:37,360
Speaker 1: told you this many times before. But this country is

1606
01:15:37,439 --> 01:15:39,360
Speaker 1: lucky to have you, and clay More OPS is lucky

1607
01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:40,920
Speaker 1: to have you as well. And every single one of

1608
01:15:40,960 --> 01:15:44,240
Speaker 1: these servicemen and women that are that you're enlisting into

1609
01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:48,040
Speaker 1: these programs to be you know, young mentees and even

1610
01:15:48,040 --> 01:15:50,320
Speaker 1: the mentors that you bring on. It's just so smart

1611
01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:53,080
Speaker 1: and ultimately I think it's gonna make their worlds a

1612
01:15:53,120 --> 01:15:53,720
Speaker 1: little bit better.

1613
01:15:53,720 --> 01:15:58,640
Speaker 2: But it's probably probably also saving lives to Rob, Yeah, saving.

1614
01:15:58,280 --> 01:15:59,160
Speaker 3: Fan, I hope so.

1615
01:15:59,240 --> 01:16:00,920
Speaker 4: But like I said to me, it's just a matter

1616
01:16:00,960 --> 01:16:03,120
Speaker 4: of elevating the people who need to be elevated. There

1617
01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:05,519
Speaker 4: there are a lot of people who have a mouthpiece

1618
01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:08,280
Speaker 4: in this country that shouldn't they We don't need to

1619
01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:10,400
Speaker 4: hear from them, you know, completely and uh and there

1620
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:11,960
Speaker 4: are a lot of people who have something to say

1621
01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:13,800
Speaker 4: and have something to contribute and that we're not hearing

1622
01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:14,240
Speaker 4: from them.

1623
01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:18,280
Speaker 1: Well, Rob, thanks brother, thank you for coming on the

1624
01:16:18,280 --> 01:16:20,960
Speaker 1: podcast with me and Tom. I mean we talked for

1625
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:25,240
Speaker 1: well over two hours now, two hours told we probably

1626
01:16:25,240 --> 01:16:28,160
Speaker 1: could talk for another two hours and I'll we'll bring

1627
01:16:28,200 --> 01:16:30,240
Speaker 1: you back again if you don't mind, we'll talk more.

1628
01:16:30,360 --> 01:16:32,320
Speaker 2: But thanks coming on.

1629
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:34,120
Speaker 4: Can I hey, can I say that Sean that I

1630
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:36,960
Speaker 4: really appreciate what you're doing because you're talking about service

1631
01:16:36,960 --> 01:16:38,960
Speaker 4: after the military, and you've been doing that. Not only

1632
01:16:39,000 --> 01:16:41,880
Speaker 4: are you serving in your own way and and uh,

1633
01:16:42,120 --> 01:16:46,320
Speaker 4: you know, various positions publicly and certainly doing this, but

1634
01:16:46,479 --> 01:16:48,680
Speaker 4: you you have led our platoon, You have led our

1635
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:51,160
Speaker 4: men and UH and nobody required you to do that.

1636
01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:52,120
Speaker 3: You were required to.

1637
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:53,960
Speaker 4: Lead us while we were in your platoon and UH

1638
01:16:54,040 --> 01:16:56,559
Speaker 4: and you chose to do that afterward, and that's that's

1639
01:16:56,560 --> 01:16:57,200
Speaker 4: something special.

1640
01:16:57,240 --> 01:16:58,840
Speaker 3: That's an example for the rest of us to follow.

1641
01:16:59,080 --> 01:17:01,360
Speaker 4: Well, thanks brother, and I should also mention you were

1642
01:17:01,400 --> 01:17:04,240
Speaker 4: an inspiration for claim More operations because because I saw

1643
01:17:04,280 --> 01:17:07,479
Speaker 4: that you knew I think you understood better than I

1644
01:17:07,520 --> 01:17:09,559
Speaker 4: did that there was a new mission after the military.

1645
01:17:09,680 --> 01:17:10,840
Speaker 4: To me, it was just I don't know, I'll go

1646
01:17:10,880 --> 01:17:12,479
Speaker 4: to school and figure it out. And you just kind

1647
01:17:12,479 --> 01:17:14,360
Speaker 4: of dove right in. You You didn't wait for somebody

1648
01:17:14,360 --> 01:17:17,559
Speaker 4: to give you permission to tell the platoon story or

1649
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:19,639
Speaker 4: to do any of the things that you've done. You

1650
01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:21,680
Speaker 4: just you just made it happen. And that's what that's

1651
01:17:21,720 --> 01:17:23,200
Speaker 4: what we try to get our war fighters to do.

1652
01:17:23,360 --> 01:17:25,160
Speaker 4: So thank you for being an inspiration. Thank you for

1653
01:17:25,200 --> 01:17:27,960
Speaker 4: being a patriotic American. Thank you for this podcast and

1654
01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:28,560
Speaker 4: doing all that you do.

1655
01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:32,439
Speaker 1: Show Wow, Raw, that's humbling, really, I mean it's an honor.

1656
01:17:32,720 --> 01:17:38,480
Speaker 1: And you know how I feel the when your privileged

1657
01:17:38,520 --> 01:17:42,000
Speaker 1: to lead somebody, whether it's in the military or or otherwise,

1658
01:17:42,560 --> 01:17:45,559
Speaker 1: that charge of leadership is something that is vested within

1659
01:17:45,600 --> 01:17:47,200
Speaker 1: you for the rest of your life. You can't just

1660
01:17:47,280 --> 01:17:50,960
Speaker 1: relinquish it, even if you physically relinquish it. It's there,

1661
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:53,840
Speaker 1: and I think it's an obligation. It's something you always

1662
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:55,960
Speaker 1: have to You always have to fill those shoes. So

1663
01:17:57,200 --> 01:18:01,160
Speaker 1: that's just that's an honor. Rob, thank you and thanks

1664
01:18:01,200 --> 01:18:04,120
Speaker 1: for coming on the show. You're the freaking man and

1665
01:18:04,160 --> 01:18:05,080
Speaker 1: we'll have you back soon.

1666
01:18:05,160 --> 01:18:08,880
Speaker 3: Brother. That sounds great, John, Thanks all right later.

1667
01:18:09,240 --> 01:18:10,120
Speaker 2: All right, everybody.

1668
01:18:10,360 --> 01:18:14,920
Speaker 1: That is Rob Pinholt, CEO of Claymore Operations, member of

1669
01:18:15,840 --> 01:18:21,639
Speaker 1: out Labplatune, begrudging radio telephone operator. I hope you enjoyed

1670
01:18:21,680 --> 01:18:25,680
Speaker 1: that conversation. He's an incredible American if you like As

1671
01:18:25,720 --> 01:18:27,920
Speaker 1: always you say this every single week, but if you

1672
01:18:28,120 --> 01:18:31,240
Speaker 1: like this stuff, whether it's in video format or audio format,

1673
01:18:31,320 --> 01:18:34,280
Speaker 1: or however you engage with this podcast, please be sure

1674
01:18:34,320 --> 01:18:36,880
Speaker 1: to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts or I've got

1675
01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:39,880
Speaker 1: a Rumble channel now that we're building out all of

1676
01:18:39,880 --> 01:18:43,599
Speaker 1: our video content on there, and we're rolling out things,

1677
01:18:43,640 --> 01:18:44,600
Speaker 1: really cool.

1678
01:18:44,360 --> 01:18:45,559
Speaker 2: Exciting things every week.

1679
01:18:46,160 --> 01:18:49,400
Speaker 1: Just hosted a week's worth of conservative talk radio three

1680
01:18:49,439 --> 01:18:52,559
Speaker 1: hours a day and got the news just this morning

1681
01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:55,600
Speaker 1: that it was the number the sixth biggest show in

1682
01:18:55,640 --> 01:18:59,000
Speaker 1: America on Rumble, which is amazing. So we're going to

1683
01:18:59,120 --> 01:19:01,639
Speaker 1: lots of cool stuff coming out on that front as well,

1684
01:19:01,760 --> 01:19:05,120
Speaker 1: So please subscribe to the podcast, leave reviews for it

1685
01:19:05,120 --> 01:19:07,519
Speaker 1: if you can, because that helps us as well. Share

1686
01:19:08,080 --> 01:19:10,439
Speaker 1: these clips on social media if they resonate with you,

1687
01:19:10,479 --> 01:19:15,200
Speaker 1: it helps to My website is official Sean Parnell dot com.

1688
01:19:15,280 --> 01:19:17,720
Speaker 1: We've got Battleground apparel on there now. We've got two

1689
01:19:17,760 --> 01:19:19,720
Speaker 1: different T shirt versions that are out now. We're rolling

1690
01:19:19,760 --> 01:19:23,360
Speaker 1: out another one soon, so stay tuned. Thank you for

1691
01:19:23,400 --> 01:19:27,000
Speaker 1: watching Never Quit, Never Surrender. God bless you all, and

1692
01:19:27,040 --> 01:19:29,280
Speaker 1: God bless this amazing country that we live in.

1693
01:19:29,479 --> 01:19:29,880
Speaker 2: Take care