1 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 1: After reporting the girl mission, Investigators say her mother would 2 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: not provide a picture of Grace until two months later. 3 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: Sarah Packer failed to give accurate information to the police. 4 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: The identity of the remains was that of Brace Packer, 5 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: age fourteen, But who killed her? This is crime stories 6 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. The state took Packer from a biological 7 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: parents when she was just three. Sarah and David Packer 8 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: adopted her, but David Packer would later be charged with 9 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: sexual abuse of children. Sources say Grace was one of 10 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: his victims. She was so cheerful she lit up everybody's day. 11 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 1: Prosecutors say Sullivan beat and rape Grace, as Sarah Packer 12 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: washed as part of some sort of rape fantasy. She 13 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: was allegedly then poisoned and eventually strangled. A little girl 14 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: just fourteen years years old, dies at the hand of 15 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 1: her own mother, and as is so often, the mother's boyfriend. 16 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 1: I can't tell you how disheartening this is for me. 17 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: All the years I prosecuted in Inner City Atlanta, I 18 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:20,559 Speaker 1: saw one atrocious act on a child after the next. 19 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: I would say the majority of the times children were attacked. 20 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: And this is anecdotal based on what I saw in 21 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: court and the literally thousands of cases I investigated, the 22 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: purple typically was someone within the home, a relative, a 23 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: friend of the families, and very often the boyfriend or 24 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: the living or the husband or the ex of the mother. 25 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: And what always shocked me so much was that typically, 26 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: very often the mothers went along with it. They went 27 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: along with abuse, set abuse on their own children, and 28 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: never said a word. I always wondered, is because he 29 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: brings in the money as the house in his name? 30 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: Do anit a man that much that you're willing to 31 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: put up with abuse on your own child in order 32 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 1: to keep one? And here I'm talking, of course, you 33 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:24,679 Speaker 1: know about little Grace Packer. Now, dad from Bucks County, 34 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 1: I can really hardly get the words out. I'm so 35 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: distraught about this. The mother and her boyfriend compromised to beat, poison, strangle, 36 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 1: and molest this little girl, Sarah Packer. The mother Jacob Sullivan, 37 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: then allegedly preserve the little girl's body for weeks in 38 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: cat litter. Now you know, I'm no shrink, I'm just 39 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 1: a trial lawyer, but I can tell you putting your 40 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: child's body in cat litter, I mean, Freud would do 41 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: a backflip over analyzing that putting your little girl in 42 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: cat litter before dismembering her and dumping her remains in 43 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: a remote area in north central Pennsylvania. These aren't just 44 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 1: alleged facts. These are statements by law enforcement. The child 45 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: had been reported missing last July in Montgomery County, so 46 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: they stand by all this time, the mom and I 47 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 1: live in They stand by while everybody's looking for Grace, 48 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: looking looking canines, a t V. S, by foot, by air. 49 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: Everybody's looking for Grace. And they've carried on this charade 50 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: since July, law enforcement looking for her. We have all 51 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: been on pins and needles, hoping for the best regarding 52 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: Grace Packer. Joining me right now, Investigative reporter Alan Duke, Alan, 53 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: this is one of the most atrocious cases I've ever seen, 54 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: complicated on several levels. Well what what what I said? Atrocious? 55 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 1: What's complicated about it? The mother stands by and lets 56 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: her boyfriend abuse And how many years had the abuse 57 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: of this child been going on and the mother knew 58 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: about it? This is how complicated it is. When this 59 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: child was three years old, when we're talking about Grace Packer, 60 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: when she was three years old, she was taken from 61 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: her biological mom and dad because the biological mom and dad, 62 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 1: who were deemed to be unfit parents because they hadn't 63 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 1: protected her or her siblings to siblings from some abuse 64 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 1: by other adults. I don't know the details of that abuse, 65 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: but I do know it resulted in the court taking 66 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: this child away and putting her into foster care, where 67 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 1: she was eventually adopted by Sarah Packer, who changed the 68 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: child's name at age three. Now, this is what's crazy 69 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: about it. Sarah Packer worked for the state of Pennsylvania 70 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: in the foster care system. Dear Lord in Heaven, you 71 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: know what, I can't believe that that makes it even 72 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: so much worse. But another thing, if these allegations can 73 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: be proven to be true, this district attorney must must 74 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: seek the death penalty about the abuse and the torture 75 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: this child lived through. And not only for the boyfriend, 76 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: the mother too. You know what, Alan, So many times 77 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: I have seen prosecutors that they want to get justice, okay, 78 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 1: and they equate that with the maximum penalty on the man, 79 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 1: who is probably more responsible for the sex abuse. But 80 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 1: in my mind, the mother is just as responsible. They 81 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 1: don't need her testimony. They do not need her testimony 82 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: to make a case against him. They should both get 83 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 1: the death penalty for what they did to this little girl. 84 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 1: And what's so upsetting. I wonder how many people knew 85 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: what was going on. I mean, wasn't there any follow 86 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: up after she was adopted? Well? Yes, and guess what 87 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: kind of things happened. This child was adopted and when 88 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 1: this child was about ten years old, this child's adopted father, 89 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 1: meaning Sarah Packer's husband, was convicted of abusing children in 90 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: the home. And now they're saying that Sarah was being 91 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: abused by the adopted father and he is now in prison. 92 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 1: Well then that you know, I hear you. But he's 93 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: in prison. The boyfriend is the one that's responsible for 94 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 1: we know of eighteen hours of assaulting, sexually assaulting and 95 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: beating this child. Eighteen hours. I'm not making that up 96 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,919 Speaker 1: or pontificating or estimating. This is according to a probable 97 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: cause affidavit the PC Alfid David says eighteen hours they 98 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: abused this child. And I know some details. I don't 99 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: even want to speak them. They're on the paper. We've 100 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: got them in this news release from the d A. 101 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: But they're just so unspeakable. Well, I know it says 102 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: involuntary deviant intercourse restraint, kidnapping, possessing instruments of crime, abuse 103 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:29,559 Speaker 1: of a corpse, tampering with physical evidence. You know, he says, 104 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: I'm sorry for what I did. He told reporters. Well, 105 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: he's sorry now. He wasn't sorry then, and he has 106 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: let this child lay severed in after being dismembered and 107 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: letting all of us pray for her, letting police look 108 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:48,559 Speaker 1: for her. Since July. What has he been sorry since July? Well, 109 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: he tried to kill himself. Apparently on December, Sarah Packer, 110 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:56,559 Speaker 1: the mom, and Jacob Sullivan, the boyfriend, were hospitalized after 111 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: taking an overdose of drugs, and in fact, while he 112 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: was in the hospital, apparently that's when he saw this 113 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: remorse come into being. He told workers at the hospital 114 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: what he had done to his girlfriend's adopted daughter, and 115 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: then he talked to police and he gave this detailed 116 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: outline of this what happened over eighteen hours. You know what, 117 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: I appreciate him acting like he's sorry, but let's let's 118 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: don't forget that he told people at the hospital he 119 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: and his girlfriend planned the entire murder and the whole 120 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:40,439 Speaker 1: sex assault for months before they did it. They planned it. 121 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 1: They had plauding it's his grace. Little Grace comes home 122 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: from a stay with relatives in North Carolina in late 123 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:52,319 Speaker 1: two thousand and fifteen. They planned it this whole time. 124 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: So I mean, it's fine and well for him to 125 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,319 Speaker 1: jump up and say he's sorry now, but he plotted 126 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: it for months. As a matter of fact, back on 127 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: July of two thousand sixteen, he told detectives that he 128 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: and the mother drove the little girl, I could just 129 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: see this, still sleepy and wearing her pajamas from their 130 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: home to a new home in Richland Township in Bucks County. 131 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:19,199 Speaker 1: After they entered, he struck Grace several times in the face, 132 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: splitting her lip. There she isn't a little p j's. 133 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:26,439 Speaker 1: Then they took her up to the third floor, where 134 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: the mother watched as he assaulted her own daughter, Nancy. 135 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: What's really sick about this is that he told the 136 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 1: investigators that the scenario that they played out was part 137 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 1: of a sexual, well a rape murder fantasy that he 138 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: shared with the mother. That they had been thinking and 139 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: fantasizing about doing this for some time. Why didn't they 140 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 1: do it to each other? I'm not kidding. Why pick 141 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: on this little girl still in her little p j's. 142 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: And not only that, they leave to go by tailing 143 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: all PM and other drugs to sedate her, telling the 144 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: girl it would minimize the pain from all the assault 145 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: that they had done. They gave her an O D 146 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: of the pills. Then they bind and gag her and 147 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: leave her to die up in a hot attic. They 148 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: left her up there. They go about their business with 149 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: her up there dying, after all she endured. Then they 150 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: leave the house, leave her up there to die. They 151 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: come back around three a m. July nine, and they 152 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 1: find the girl still alive. She had endured and what 153 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: do they do? Are they sorry? Then? Do they save 154 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 1: her and take her to the hospital. No, They strangle 155 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,199 Speaker 1: her and suffocate her until she did die, pack her 156 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,839 Speaker 1: body and cat litter to mask the odor, and leave 157 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 1: her in the attic for three months, Alan Duke, don't 158 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 1: bring up to me their remorse. They had time after 159 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: time after time to turn back on this thing to 160 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,439 Speaker 1: to save her, and they did not. I don't want 161 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 1: to hear about and being sorry. Now you're right, it's 162 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: absolutely too late. Well you said it. I didn't know, Nancy. 163 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: You're putting words in my mouth. You brought it up. 164 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: Oh they're sorry, they're sorry. In the hospital, did you 165 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: did he didn't. I don't care what they say. Now 166 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: they do all this to the girl, They leave the home, 167 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,199 Speaker 1: bring back time and all you know, they left the home. 168 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: They should have been in the car going what have 169 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: we done. Let's take her to the hospital. I don't 170 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 1: care what happens. Let's save let's take her to the hospital. No, 171 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,559 Speaker 1: they come back and and I saw they bind her 172 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: in gagger and leave her to die. Then they come 173 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: back days later, she's still alive, and what do they do. 174 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: Then they go ahead and suffocated, strangle her, and put 175 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 1: her body in catlitter. Okay, just give me one good 176 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: reason why they should not get the death penalty. I 177 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: don't have any, Nancy, I don't don't. You're not going 178 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: to find one from me. This is the most appalling thing. 179 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 1: Then after a few well she was still missing. They 180 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: had her up in the attic, and then the investigators 181 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: started to get suspicious about Sarah Packer's report of missing 182 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: missing child because this woman was not acting like her 183 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: child was missing. She didn't even bother to take a 184 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: photo of the child to the police to help in 185 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: the search. When they when the police investigators tried to 186 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,559 Speaker 1: contact her later after the missing child report, they couldn't 187 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: find her. This mother was missing. So finally months later 188 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 1: they're starting to investigate and they end up making a 189 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:32,199 Speaker 1: case against the mom for reckless endanger. Mink. Wait a minute, 190 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 1: what about her shopping spree? What about that? You know 191 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: what I'm talking about where she goes and buy saws, 192 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:43,199 Speaker 1: she buys blades, saws she goes and buys I think 193 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 1: it was called a bow saw at Attractors supply store. Yes, 194 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: two weeks before the body was finally found, its arms 195 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 1: and legs removed. Severed has a nice way to say dismembered. Severed. 196 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,839 Speaker 1: Sarah Packer, her mother was caught on video buying a 197 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: bow saw and two extra blades. I guess she knew 198 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: should need extra blades at a try to supply store 199 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: in Richland, Richland Township. Now that's on the problem cause affidavit, 200 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: which is public record. Anybody can look at it, and 201 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: that's what it says. And they have gone and matched 202 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:21,439 Speaker 1: that bow saw to a forensic cathropologist examined the saw 203 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: in little Grace's body and determined that the scars and 204 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: the tool marks on Grace's bones were made by an 205 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:35,839 Speaker 1: alternating tooth saw blade similar to a bow saw. So 206 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: this happens in what was it July, and here it 207 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: is now and they're dismembering the body. Investigators are saying 208 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: the reason that it wasn't until November that she bought 209 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: the saws and they cut this child up because the 210 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: mother was actually arrested in charges of endangering the welfare 211 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 1: of a child and obstructing the administration of law because 212 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: she was not helping and she she actually they caught 213 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: her in some lies about her child being missing, and 214 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 1: they became very suspicious, and so of course Sarah Packer 215 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: and Jacob Sullivan decided that they better get rid of 216 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 1: the body that they had up in the cat litter 217 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 1: in the attic of their home. I'm surprised it wasn't 218 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,559 Speaker 1: found up there. Maybe it had to do with her 219 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: going missing, you know, between the two houses. But I 220 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: know this. Detectives and books, Montgomery, Luzerne County, all of them, 221 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: the Pennsylvania State Police, the Abington Township Police were all 222 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: in on this, and I gotta tell you something, I'm 223 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: just sick about it. I've prosecuted a lot of cases 224 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: and it's a very rare case frankly that calls for 225 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: the death penalty, although I somehow end up talking about 226 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: it all the time. But this case, you do this 227 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: to the child, to a child, there is no other 228 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: sentence in my mind than the death penalty. To do 229 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: this to a child still in her little p chas 230 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: and sleepy, Oh no, no they need the death penalty 231 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: is just a pit stop on their way to h 232 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: G double L. They got a one way ticket, a 233 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: one way ticket, Alan Duke, there are some aspects to 234 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: this story that really make you ask other questions, even 235 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: beyond the depravity and the horrendous crime of these two people. 236 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: And that's how did the system fail? The biological mother 237 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: who lost the child unwillingly when the child was three, 238 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: and lost a couple of the others, well, she wasn't 239 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: being a good mother to the child either. They took 240 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: her the children away. What I found out about him 241 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: is they let's say they weren't the brightest people. Okay, 242 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: they were under They were considered to be low intelligence 243 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: parents that doesn't mean they didn't love their children. It 244 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: just means that the court decided that the children would 245 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: be better off elsewhere. The mom showed up at the 246 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: memorial service that they finally had for Grace. Packer showed 247 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: up a memorial service, and she was asking the questions. 248 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: She says, I was hoping that my child would at 249 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: this point be a thriving teenager, and then I find 250 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: out this happened. Why did they even take him away, 251 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: these children away from me if they gave them to 252 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: this kind of of a mom. And that's a really 253 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: good question. Well, David Packer was the was Sarah's husband. 254 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: Now he's not responsible for this, but he played guilty 255 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: in two thousand eleven to indecent assault and statutory sex assault. 256 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: That was in two thousand eleven. I mean, this woman 257 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: has really picked quite the cast of characters to live 258 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: with and exposed children too. The only thing that happened 259 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 1: to Sarah Packer after that was she lost her job 260 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: with the State of Pennsylvania. She didn't lose the children 261 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: the State of Pennsylvania had given her to care for. 262 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: From what I've found is she's been the foster mom 263 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: to forty different children. You know, the Abington Township detectives. 264 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: They discovered Sarah Packer's home was vacant when they went 265 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 1: there in their search for Grace, and they find that 266 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: Grace's brother is enrolled in Quaker Town Community School District, 267 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: but Grace is not. That's a big tip off right there. 268 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: Breaker Town is where the attict was right that new home. Well, 269 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: this is what I know. I am aiding to find 270 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: out what the district attorney is going to do. And 271 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:07,640 Speaker 1: I'm telling you the mother is no less responsible than 272 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 1: for this than the living boyfriend. This is not a 273 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 1: moral judgment. What they want to do in their own 274 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: time away from children, that's their business. I could not 275 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: care less, But you bring a child into your six scenario, 276 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: you're going down. I do not think there's any reason 277 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 1: she should get a lighter sentence than he did. He does. Really, 278 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: is there any alternative that to seek the death penalty? Now? 279 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,959 Speaker 1: For jury says no, then that's within their wisdom. But 280 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 1: I really believe that this d A must offer that 281 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: to a jury on both defendants, man and woman, mother 282 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 1: and boyfriend Alan. They'll be in court Friday is the 283 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: court date. They'll both be in there together and we 284 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,959 Speaker 1: should learn more about what the District Attorney is planning, 285 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: but the indications that he's giving right now is that 286 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,360 Speaker 1: he believes this is a death penalty case on both 287 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 1: of them. But only I cannot affect what the d 288 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:03,719 Speaker 1: is going to do. The only thing I can do 289 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: now is pray for this child and know God willing 290 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 1: that she isn't rest and is in a better place 291 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 1: than she has been her entire life on this earth. 292 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,239 Speaker 1: And God, I hope that's true. Everyone, Allen and I 293 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,360 Speaker 1: will stay on this and let you know the very 294 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: latest in the case of Little Grace. Everyone, thank you 295 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: for being with us. Goodbye friend.