1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: Afro Tech Executive is our multi city series which empowers 2 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 1: corporate executives, investors, and tech moguls. And we kick off 3 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: our twenty twenty three series with a trip to Seattle, 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: Washington March thirtieth. We're in the city discussing artificial intelligence 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: with Jessica Matthews, founder of Uncharted. Be in the house 6 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,760 Speaker 1: with us this year for an Afrotech Executive events. Experienced 7 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: dot afrotech dot com to learn more. I'm Will Lucas, 8 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: missus Black Tech, Green Money. I'm going to introduce you 9 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: to some of the biggest names, some of the brightest 10 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 1: minds and brilliant ideas. If you're black and building or 11 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: simply using Texas Security, you bag this podcast is for you. 12 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 1: Drew Hansen is an award winning designer, entrepreneur, and founder 13 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:54,279 Speaker 1: currently working on cannabis related technologies. His undergraduate in engineering 14 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: physics from a university is Saskatchewan and he's got a 15 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: massive industrial design from Italy. Balances the requirements that both 16 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: feels naturally in any design strategy. So I ask them, 17 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: our designer's naturally good at design, Like is this something 18 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: you can be born with? Or it's good and inspire 19 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: design a concept that can be taught in school. 20 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 2: There's some parts of design that education helps. I think, 21 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 2: you know, I create a lot of things, but I 22 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 2: don't call myself an artist. And I do that I 23 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 2: don't know because I don't have a lot of as 24 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 2: much maybe faith in my art creations as I do 25 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 2: my engineering creations. And I can't hinge my identity on it. 26 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 2: But when it comes to design, the difference between art 27 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 2: and design is functionality. It has a purpose, It serves 28 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 2: humans somehow in its methodology of its creation. And to 29 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 2: that point, education helps the size of the basket of 30 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 2: tools you have to reach to to be able to create. 31 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 2: But there's great creators who have it, and there's great 32 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 2: to sorry, there's great designers who have it, and there's 33 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 2: great designers who don't. But you'll be more prone to 34 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 2: I suppose, making a mistake or doing some exposure things 35 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 2: like that, just because you wouldn't have certain experiences that 36 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 2: maybe would have stopped that. 37 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: It's so interesting that you said you don't call yourself 38 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: an artist in that way, and it would seem to 39 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:15,239 Speaker 1: me that, well, let me translate that for how I 40 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: heard it, and then maybe you can clarify what you 41 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,519 Speaker 1: actually mean by that. So how I hear that is 42 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 1: you're less inclined to reach and to go completely left 43 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: field or just give a whole new perspective to how 44 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: something could be presented to the world. And maybe you 45 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: don't mean that. So I'm looking for clarity. 46 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 2: When I say my art, I feel like if I 47 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 2: was to just restart the conversation with that being the subject, 48 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 2: I feel like my art is the digital hardware creations 49 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 2: I make with the zeros and the ones and the software, 50 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 2: and how that's done, and the designs themselves and how 51 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 2: they come out. I can fairly honestly say from all 52 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 2: the hard where pieces I've gone that've created that have 53 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 2: made it into mass production in the world, nothing really 54 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 2: looked like them before, nothing really operated like them before. 55 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 2: There's some part of them there that there's a lighting 56 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:14,359 Speaker 2: design that you know, there's some real heart and soul 57 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 2: in And I think maybe that's what I could call 58 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 2: my art. But in the sense of how the TikTok 59 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 2: world sees art, which is I can create this piece 60 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:26,079 Speaker 2: and sell it for this much money and I live 61 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 2: off of that, you know that definition of art, I 62 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:32,519 Speaker 2: guess I would say I have a hard time of 63 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 2: saying I am one of. 64 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: Those you know, yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm glad you 65 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: said that, because I wanted to talk to you about 66 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: how how you balance the desire to create something special 67 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: with what the business needs and what the consumer needs 68 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: and what the business needs to make sense, Like, how 69 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: do you balance those things? 70 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 2: It's an interesting question. It has to do with whether 71 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 2: or not the products you create you consume, because what 72 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 2: I've learned is it's obviously a lot easier to create 73 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 2: something that you consume because you have certain insights that 74 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 2: don't exist if you're outside of the demographic pool of 75 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 2: what who actually utilizes your product. And it's okay to 76 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 2: create that way, but it's a hell of a lot harder, 77 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 2: and it's a hell of a lot harder to be 78 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 2: not just on demographic, but to ensure that you're timing 79 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 2: for when you're making this thing is also accurate. And 80 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 2: when I talked to that, I guess my own personal 81 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 2: experience is, well, I my background in life is I 82 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 2: wanted to design racing technology for Formula one, and then 83 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 2: I pursued this long, you know, passionate journey for that, 84 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 2: and along the way there was there was some great wins, 85 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 2: but I think at the core of it it was 86 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 2: a bit it was a bit different. So let me reset. 87 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 2: I just I lost my train of thought as to 88 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 2: why I brought that point up. 89 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 1: Now this is good, this is super good. I'm really interested. 90 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 2: Okay, so let's reset asking the ques and again, just 91 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 2: you can have it reframed. Yeah. 92 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: So I was interested in how you balance the consumer 93 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: needs and what the consumer wants versus actually what the 94 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: business needs. 95 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 2: So but you always are trying to make something that 96 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 2: the business needs. If you're making it under your business umbrella, 97 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 2: that's kind of the starting point for the conversation. But 98 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 2: how you craft that solution and what you craft and 99 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 2: why you craft it still can have different answers. And 100 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 2: when I was talking about having insights versus not having 101 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 2: insights right now, so I always My parent company is 102 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 2: twenty two b in my product design studio, and from 103 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 2: there we focused on things at the intersection of art 104 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 2: and technology and art and design. But when we first 105 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 2: created something, I want to create things that help people. 106 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 2: And the first thing we created was seem Technique. You know, 107 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 2: in that company, we created a personal safety IoT platform. 108 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 2: It had a mobile application that an Uber driver or 109 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 2: anybody work by themselves could use to share not just 110 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,559 Speaker 2: where they are. Because I felt like that was easy, 111 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:04,919 Speaker 2: that was done, that was accessible. That's just by my friends. 112 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 2: But if you you know, used by my friends, or 113 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 2: you send up that red flag that you're in danger 114 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 2: once or twice, that kind of a system doesn't really 115 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 2: have much usage. So what we're talking about is how 116 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 2: do you share your current state with context? And that's 117 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,279 Speaker 2: where I felt there could be an advancement in that area. 118 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 2: And so you know, we created an app that allowed 119 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 2: you to share what you see, what you hear, and 120 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 2: where you are synchronized to your GPS data live stream 121 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 2: to five people, and it had a good application for 122 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 2: Uber drivers. Then we extended that to we've expanded that 123 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 2: to loan workers, targeted degmographic of people who just work 124 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 2: by themselves and might need access to such technology. But 125 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 2: we really landed on a good home with realtors and 126 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 2: people doing open homes. For example. Now I am not 127 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 2: a realtor, I'm not somebody doing an open home, and 128 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 2: in this situation, I don't have certain insights, but we 129 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 2: went ahead because I was very certain that the product 130 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,919 Speaker 2: we were creating was needed, was something that was valuable 131 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 2: and I still do this day contend that, you know, 132 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 2: we and then we created a wearable device called the 133 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 2: Lotus that had a built in microphone and speaker, but 134 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 2: it also synchronized to your SERI or Google Assistant. And 135 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 2: this is like six seven years ago right now, So 136 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 2: it was like on the cusp of when Google introduced 137 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 2: this technology. We were at cees on that launch here 138 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 2: with them, and you know, I guess the point I'm 139 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 2: trying to make is when I was in that company, 140 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 2: we were basically trying to sell do you feel safe? 141 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 2: And you know, to the point about doing something and 142 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 2: selling it and having those insights. I've been consuming cannabis 143 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 2: my whole life for medicinal purposes, and on top of that, 144 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 2: I've been creating technology my whole life. So when it 145 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 2: comes to now having a cannabis technology company where our 146 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 2: goal is to become, say the dis in of the industry, 147 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 2: it's not just to have a vappen. It's a lot 148 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 2: easier to create products that are on target push forward 149 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 2: the business versus even if they're on my personal agenda. 150 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 2: As I guess the point to bring it all the 151 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 2: way back to the question. 152 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I'm interested in your take on It's 153 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: one thing to say, you know, you you pushed for 154 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: because you believe that, you know it was needed in 155 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: the marketplace. It's one thing for people to want what 156 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: you have. It's another thing that they're willing to pay 157 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: for it. How do you you know balance? How did 158 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: you know that they would pay for this? 159 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,959 Speaker 2: Because we we had people that paid us, and you know, 160 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 2: when we when we made the when we made the 161 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 2: device itself, we actually showed up to cees at various 162 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 2: points in the year, at various points in the product cycle, 163 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 2: to effectively ascertained from our initial prototypes, was there market 164 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,319 Speaker 2: for this not only just in user base, but was 165 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 2: there a market for this in retail distribution buyers around 166 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 2: the world, you know, And the all the signs said yeah. 167 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 2: Every time we had to go through some form of research, 168 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 2: the markets said yes. And we ended up getting into 169 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 2: best Buy. You know, we ended up almost being acquired 170 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 2: by a company whose name I probably shouldn't say, so 171 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 2: I won't, but we you know, we were we were 172 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 2: right there. And but I think the thing in business 173 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 2: that's interesting is you missed by a bit, You missed 174 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 2: by a Matt doesn't matter. You miss you miss, you know, 175 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 2: And so a lot of that for me, whether it 176 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,559 Speaker 2: was timing, whether it was other stuff, it pushes you 177 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 2: to really try and consider why it was that the 178 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 2: business didn't get where the business needed to go, even 179 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 2: if I thought I was satisfying those personal This is 180 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 2: what this does need to be for me to go 181 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:44,599 Speaker 2: to sleep at night. You know. 182 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: My next question, I'm going to tee this up in 183 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,839 Speaker 1: a specific way because I was in a Ikea some 184 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: years ago and I saw this poster that they had 185 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: on the wall and there it was about their design 186 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: and pricing, and it was talking about they decide what 187 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,719 Speaker 1: something was cost first, and then the cost of it 188 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: will dictate how they produce it. So they're going to 189 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: make a chair, and they're going to make a twenty 190 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 1: four dollar chair, and therefore it has to be produced 191 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: a certain way. And so getting to the point my 192 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: question is sometimes things fail, not because they're not needed 193 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: in the marketplace, not that because there's no demand, but 194 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 1: the price you know of it just doesn't make sense. 195 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,319 Speaker 1: And so you could have decided to instead of making 196 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:29,839 Speaker 1: it with some sort of plastic, making it with a 197 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: different type of plastic, therefore the price, you know, can 198 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:36,439 Speaker 1: come down. So how do you know which levers to 199 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 1: pull when you know that there's a need in the marketplace, 200 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,199 Speaker 1: you know there's some desire in the marketplace, How do 201 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:45,679 Speaker 1: you know which levers decide whether this thing will be 202 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:46,599 Speaker 1: successful or not. 203 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 2: There's as much market research as you can do. But 204 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,719 Speaker 2: you know, I hate making this quote because I know 205 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 2: it's just such an overused quote. But somebody likes Steve 206 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 2: jobs are the best. Like, people don't really know what 207 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 2: they want, right, And so if I'm gonna sit there 208 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,559 Speaker 2: and try and market test, and I'm gonna say, I 209 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 2: know I can sell a twenty dollars version of X. Okay, 210 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 2: that makes perfect sense. We can go and we can 211 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 2: try and create a twenty dollars version of X, and 212 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 2: we'll go forward and we'll do that. And that is 213 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 2: a that is a way that a lot of companies, sorry, 214 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:22,959 Speaker 2: let me just turn it out. That is a way 215 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 2: that a lot of companies operate. However, most of those 216 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 2: companies didn't make the iPhone. Most of those companies aren't 217 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:37,199 Speaker 2: the chat ChiPT you know. And so yeah, there's a 218 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 2: whole lot of like zoom boxes that we can sell 219 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 2: for twenty bucks or whatever it might be, or you know, 220 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 2: but there's there's something to be said about combining as 221 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 2: much as you can know with some thing that has 222 00:11:56,200 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 2: insights in something, and then just in two suitively understanding 223 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 2: this is a cliff, a cliff that's worth at least 224 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 2: looking over, you know. And at the end of the day, 225 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 2: it's almost like when it comes to creating product, creating 226 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:15,319 Speaker 2: companies or anything of that nature. You know, when a 227 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 2: lot of people ask when do you think it's perfect? 228 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:19,080 Speaker 2: When do you think it's finished? There is no there 229 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 2: is no There is no perfect there is It's good 230 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 2: enough to go out and I'm comfortable that it's going 231 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 2: to deliver on its experience. And I think maybe bringing 232 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 2: it back to a fundamental difference between art and design, 233 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 2: design does have a point where it's supposed to deliver 234 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 2: on a promise, and at that point in time, I 235 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 2: can be more relaxed about the visual cues of something 236 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 2: or the aesthetic component of something, which is only one 237 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 2: part of that thing. 238 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 3: You know. 239 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,599 Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh, I was just watching you answer that, and 240 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: you made me think about how just having the design 241 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:53,199 Speaker 1: is probably not enough. You got to be able to 242 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 1: communicate the whys and the hows and the reasoning behind. 243 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: Have you experienced, perhaps you know, a counterpart or even 244 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: a classmate, somebody who had remarkable things but couldn't communicate 245 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: it therefore couldn't find success, or just aware of the 246 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: concept and what happens there that could allow those people 247 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,439 Speaker 1: to find better success being able to communicate versus just 248 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: having great notes and great designs on a sketch pad. 249 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. I think there's like two levels to that question. 250 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 2: On the first level, you have communication of your own ideas, right, 251 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 2: and the ability to work within your team, the ability 252 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 2: to show somebody, I thought, the ability to do whatever. 253 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:44,439 Speaker 2: And you know, for me transitioning from an engineer to 254 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 2: a designer because my undergraduate's engineering physics. I then did 255 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 2: a whole bunch of motorsports stuff. I did a data 256 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 2: acquisition internship in Indianapolis. But when I was in Italy 257 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 2: and I was shifting over to becoming a designer, and 258 00:13:58,360 --> 00:13:59,599 Speaker 2: I was just trying to be humble and say, I 259 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 2: don't know if about you know, like, I was just 260 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 2: really trying to see the difference. 261 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: And I think. 262 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 2: I think somebody who can't communicate their simple ideas to 263 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 2: their team that's one problem. That's something you can learn. 264 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 2: And you know, my mentor in Italy, Alberto Fraser, he said, 265 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 2: I'll teach you three things. One how to draw because 266 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 2: you can't draw, and he used a lot more expeditive 267 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 2: language than that too. How to think like a designer 268 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 2: and not an engineer because they're fundamentally different. And three 269 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 2: quality of life. And that's another conversation. But on the 270 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 2: subject of drawing, you know, there is a book called 271 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 2: Learning to Draw with the Right Side of the Brain, 272 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 2: and it's a fantastic, fundamental book that if you go 273 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 2: through their exercises, it is undeniable that you will be 274 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 2: able to draw at the end of it. I absolutely 275 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 2: guarantee it. And so it basically rewires your brain from 276 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 2: seeing the world with the left side, where you're analyzing 277 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 2: shape system and patterns. You know, when you were a kid, 278 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 2: if somebody asked you to draw an eye, you weren't 279 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 2: going to do the half circle with the other half circle. 280 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 2: But now as an adult, almost every single adult will 281 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 2: draw an eye as that because they've been trained on 282 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 2: that as the symbol for that. But if you were 283 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 2: a child and you said draw that eye, they would 284 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 2: actually just try to draw the contours as they saw it, 285 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 2: and that's the fundamental difference, is just learning to draw 286 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 2: it as you see it versus how you think about it. 287 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 2: And once you kind of free yourself from that shackle, 288 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 2: you know, communication abilities at least quick sketch ones become 289 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 2: more proficient. So on that first level, i'd say that's 290 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 2: the answer to that question of if somebody was lacking 291 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 2: a communication ability, it would definitely affect their ability to 292 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 2: communicate because the beauty is in the details. And you know, 293 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 2: one time I was working on a hangar designed for 294 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 2: Valentino with my mentor. It was his client, not mine, 295 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 2: and he sat there and we printed out what we 296 00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 2: did from the digital files. But then he just sit 297 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 2: there with a pencil and went over it like forty 298 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 2: fifty sixty times until he was like, nah, that's the curve. 299 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 2: And so there's a small part of just knowing the 300 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 2: fundamental tools that helps you really master those digital ones, 301 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 2: even if you are the more advanced students who thinks 302 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 2: you're great at communication. And then I would say the 303 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 2: second level to that answer is me, I am terrible 304 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 2: at communicating in certain regards. I am horrible at posting 305 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 2: on social media, and when you don't show the world 306 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 2: what you're creating, and the only mediums that the world 307 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 2: accepts these days, nobody knows who you are what you create, 308 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 2: And so you know, I am the poster child for 309 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 2: I never really wanted to be famous. I just wanted 310 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 2: to make things that help people. But in today's world, 311 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 2: when the things you create other people now depend on 312 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 2: and livelihoods start to depend on, you kind of have 313 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 2: to let go of the original reasonings and learn some 314 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 2: new communication tools, because I guess that would be what 315 00:16:58,360 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 2: you're hampering. 316 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 1: What inspired you to use your talents in the cannabis industry. 317 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 2: I we were coming out of seeing Technic, which is 318 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 2: that personal Safety at Platform had one hundred thousand dollars left. 319 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 2: I had just burned quite a significant chunk of change 320 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 2: trying to make it work because we kept getting really 321 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 2: positive indicators that were just like, Okay, we should figure 322 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 2: this one out a bit longer. And you know, to 323 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 2: that point, I'm still happy everything went the way it is. 324 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 2: I still have to recover the damage that that created, 325 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:36,360 Speaker 2: but you just learned so much from it, and I think, 326 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 2: I think, what do I think? What do I think? Okay, 327 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 2: ask me the question again. 328 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm interested in what inspired you to use the 329 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: talents and gifts you've been able to develop in the 330 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: cannabis industry versus you know, all the other things you 331 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: could have selected. 332 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 2: So my dream in life was Formula one racing tech. 333 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 2: I ended up getting flown to England to defend a 334 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 2: technology design against the other ten best selected in the 335 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 2: world in a Formula one competition that Renau put on. 336 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:16,119 Speaker 2: And you know, I spent a year in Indianapolis very 337 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 2: graciously with Team Wattwalker Racing and got to see the 338 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 2: track life. And you know, when that was my initial dream, 339 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 2: it just seems so unattainable. But then when I was 340 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:28,360 Speaker 2: twenty six and I was in the F one facility, 341 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 2: I was like, I can hang with the best in 342 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 2: the world in this. But then when I had to 343 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 2: go back to Italy and my mentor was like quality 344 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 2: of life. Bringing that into the conversation, now, how do 345 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 2: you want to live your life? He's like, don't I 346 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 2: want to be able to see my daughter. So I 347 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 2: gave up being the head designer at ray Ban and 348 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 2: I was like, I want to be able to eat 349 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 2: Chinese food. I want to live in a real city. 350 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 2: I want culture. I can't live in the middle of 351 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 2: nowhere for the rest of my life just because I 352 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:55,400 Speaker 2: want to pursue Formula one. And so when it came 353 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 2: to what I could use my skills for, I just 354 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 2: really realized I love designing tech, you know, I loved 355 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 2: just the final applications for it. And when it came 356 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 2: down to, you know, starting it now, seem had about 357 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 2: one hundred thousand dollars left in the bank account, and 358 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 2: it was, well, now's the time because here in Canada 359 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 2: it's fully legal federally. It's something that I have the 360 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 2: insights on, you know, growing up, I started consuming Canada's 361 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 2: very young, and to a point where, of course, at 362 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 2: certain times everybody have uses something when they're a child, 363 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 2: but it was very medicinal, like I sat almost every 364 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,920 Speaker 2: day through calculus. I finished calculus and bilingual diploma, so 365 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 2: I finished calculus in French. For anybody who says, you know, 366 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 2: cannabis destroys the child's mind, well it was helping me 367 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 2: sit through mine. I got through that, and then I 368 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 2: went to university, so I know firsthand what it's like 369 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 2: and what it means to certain people, I suppose and 370 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 2: I also know that when it comes to something like alcohol, 371 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 2: people have decanters in their homes, these very beautiful crystal vases, 372 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 2: vases what you want to say, I call it, and 373 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 2: the world will walk into somebody's home and be like, 374 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,680 Speaker 2: here's a nice bottle of wine. What a beautiful decanter. 375 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 2: Let's get smashed now and celebrated, and it's like this 376 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 2: culture that's kind of interesting when people don't. People have 377 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 2: basically debranded alcohol from being a drug. They're like, that's 378 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 2: not a drug, that's alcohol, but it's a definition a drug. 379 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 2: And so what I always thought was lacking was the 380 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 2: injection of something that could create pieces in the cannabis 381 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 2: sector that were officially decanter level grades. So somebody walks 382 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 2: into a home, you can invite them into the conversation 383 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 2: just with the object itself and then soften the experience 384 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 2: and then ultimately elevate it for everybody. So really that 385 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 2: I just I thought I had something to offer, you know, 386 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 2: I when all the technology in cannabis that I feel 387 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 2: is relevant exploded onto the scene in the various places 388 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 2: it did, you know, like the volcano with analog dial 389 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 2: over a decade ago in Los Angeles, when people started 390 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:10,880 Speaker 2: figuring out to pass a little bag around was a thing. 391 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,160 Speaker 2: You know, there's a certain moment in time when concentrates 392 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,919 Speaker 2: came out. That company called Gpenn captured all of everybody's attention, 393 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 2: and we're producing a device called the micro g and 394 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 2: that that was a moment in time. But what's different 395 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 2: about us and everybody else is I guess the word purpose. 396 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 3: You know. 397 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,160 Speaker 2: I don't want to just take any of those little 398 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,920 Speaker 2: things and make a small adjustment on it. I want 399 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 2: to find holes where we're just not fulfilling our promise 400 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 2: as creators that have functionality requirements, not just artistic requirements. 401 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,160 Speaker 2: And I want to make sure that this one chance 402 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,919 Speaker 2: we've been given to consume cannabis recreationally, medicinally and legally 403 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 2: gets the best shot of having the tools and the 404 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 2: products that elevated status to something that is becoming mainstream, 405 00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 2: and not even just here in the most wild of country. 406 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,719 Speaker 2: It's like, can we get this in a Shariahwah country 407 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 2: and maybe get them just often up in one way 408 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 2: and have cannabis, you know, if we do it right. 409 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 2: Because there's certain bars in those places that are consuming alcohol, 410 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 2: so it's not like the conversations that far fetch and 411 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 2: I guess back to the point of making things just 412 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 2: to help people, it seems like a good place to 413 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 2: put my efforts. After the dream of that f one 414 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 2: was kind of passed on. 415 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 1: As a part of jews website that said he's interested 416 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,120 Speaker 1: in consulting and collaborating on projects that have a positive 417 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: impact on the world. And I think we all get 418 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: by now the benefits of medicinal marijuana. I mean it 419 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: helps with anxiety, pain, information, talk to your own doctor, 420 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: not me. But like re creational marijuana. When you say 421 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: you're interested in working on things that make a positive 422 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: impact on the world, how does recreational marijuana do that? 423 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: How does recreational marijuana make a positive impact on the world? 424 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 3: Ju speak Sony, Well, there's there's a lot of safety 425 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 3: and regulation ultimately, you know, when it comes to cannabis products, 426 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 3: there's people who make bad cannabis. 427 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 2: Will give you cannabis covered in mold, will give you 428 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 2: cannabis covered in xyz that is actually harmful for an 429 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 2: individual when it comes to a recreational user. So I 430 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 2: don't necessarily need a medicinal certificate to say I want 431 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 2: to take tailan all right, or if I just want 432 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 2: to kind of have like a sleep ease, right, And 433 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 2: so there's a certain functionality that we can empower a 434 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 2: recreational user with without needing it to be medicinal like 435 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 2: we have done with everything else. And so so that 436 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 2: only happens when you can trust what's in something. And 437 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 2: ultimately I've just really learned we can't trust people in general, 438 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,440 Speaker 2: like to leave something to themselves. I'm sorry to say so, 439 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 2: But other very interesting things start to happen with regulations. 440 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 2: So let me explain that. For example, if every single 441 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 2: cannabis that's now released is tested for all it's cannabinoids 442 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 2: and terrapenes and there's specific percentages and volumes by weight, 443 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,880 Speaker 2: now we can start to have reliable data to offer 444 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 2: products that utilize that machine learning structures on that data sets. 445 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 2: How is this affecting that? How is that doing that? 446 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:42,919 Speaker 2: And the level of infrastructure from the creator side starts 447 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 2: to go up, and it starts to become more advanced, 448 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,880 Speaker 2: and it starts to become more evolved with a purpose, 449 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 2: you know. And I always said, for example, blockchain is great, 450 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 2: cryptocurrencies are great. Is cryptocurrency going to be the best 451 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 2: demonstration of blockchain technology. Time will tell, and that's kind 452 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 2: of what I'm talking about. 453 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:08,440 Speaker 1: No, Yeah, So I have outside of this business. I 454 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: have another business where we're a marketing technology agency. We 455 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: do video production and etc. And we specifically focus on 456 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 1: companies and organizations that are trying to reach and engage 457 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 1: multiculture and diverse audiences. And so as a byproduct of that, 458 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: a lot of our clients tend to be like, you know, 459 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: nonprofit organizations, governments and etc. And what I learned a 460 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: revelation to me was that what typically happens with video 461 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 1: producers is they assume that when you hire me to 462 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: do a video, you just want a really beautiful video. 463 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: And what I found to be our value proposition was 464 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: I realized, you don't just want a nice video. You 465 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,120 Speaker 1: if your government you ultimately want to pass a levee. 466 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,159 Speaker 1: That's really what you want. The video is just a 467 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: part of telling a story that ultimately helps you pass 468 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,880 Speaker 1: a levee down the line or whatever. So what are 469 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 1: are some of the things when you take on a 470 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 1: new project, design project? What are the questions you ask 471 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: yourself to answer for the consumer? What they're really they 472 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 1: don't even know to ask what are you trying to 473 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: solve for them? 474 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 2: It depends on if that the foundation of why I'm 475 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 2: answering the question is personal based or business based. And 476 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 2: I say that because when I'm trying to solve something 477 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 2: personal based, of course the end goal is business positive results. 478 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 2: But it's almost some of it is an ego play 479 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,159 Speaker 2: if you're being honest, that you put that into production 480 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 2: because you didn't necessarily have the data to do that, 481 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 2: and when it came when it comes time, like right now, 482 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 2: we have we have or we're transitioning from a vaporizer 483 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 2: product with toky to an accessory that is for dry flour, 484 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 2: and and you know, there's arguably not a whole lot 485 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 2: on the market that's like it to prove that it 486 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 2: should exist. But I know how much happiness will come 487 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 2: from people when they go through this experience that we're 488 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 2: trying to offer. And there's just a certain level of 489 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 2: happiness that when you get a wave that hits you 490 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 2: of it after you touch something that intuitively, I don't 491 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 2: need data anymore. I've been I've been around certainly long 492 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,680 Speaker 2: enough to know. So I guess the challenge to me 493 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,879 Speaker 2: and my team or a team, and I is always 494 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 2: when we talk about a product, we always say, Okay, 495 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 2: what's the user journey? How am I going to touch it? 496 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 2: How am I going to hold it? How is it 497 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 2: going to feel when I go about it? And every 498 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 2: single step, have I introduced friction which is going to 499 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 2: piss somebody off? Or have I just made their lives easier? 500 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 2: And if you make somebody's lives enough easier, you're doing great. 501 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 2: And if at some point you inject a piece of 502 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 2: cleverness where people can figure like almost find it, then 503 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 2: you're taking somebody from doing great having a great experience 504 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 2: to oh damn, I'm gonna remember this forever because that 505 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 2: was just so cute, you know, And it's like, how 506 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 2: much of that can you find while still fulfilling your 507 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 2: promise of I'm not going to just put crap in 508 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 2: here for the sake of putting crap in here, and 509 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,159 Speaker 2: it still works the way it's supposed to. 510 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: You know, when you do have to go gather data, 511 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: is you talked about, you know, just that unique insight 512 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: that you may have as a designer, But when data 513 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: is important, talk to me about the experiences you've had 514 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: in how you actually go about collecting data, like what 515 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: are you using, are you using serve? Are you going 516 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: door to door knocking? And are you using on What 517 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: is the process for gathering valuable consumer data? 518 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 2: Depending it's industry specif think again when we were in 519 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 2: the so when I was creating action cameras in London 520 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 2: the UK as designing action cameras for your company called 521 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 2: Drift Innovation kind of like GoPros. We had a lot 522 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 2: of professional teams in a lot of professional circuits and 523 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 2: there was you know, access to mailing lists of people 524 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 2: that we could you know, bring to the table to 525 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 2: give us active data that we were actively bringing people 526 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 2: into sessions for which sometimes we did. But what I 527 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 2: think was more important was where that company came from. 528 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 2: Is also an insightful conversation about data. So the two 529 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 2: owners of my action sports company, Robin and sab rus 530 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 2: their souls for helping bring me up. They were IBM 531 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 2: consultants who started effectively, sorry, let me fix my camera. 532 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 2: They were IBM consultants who started a website to distribute 533 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 2: action cameras. Originally, then they sold so many action cameras 534 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 2: that they had the data on what the consumers hated 535 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 2: and liked and loved, and they were able to translate 536 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 2: that to three features that an action camera didn't have, 537 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 2: a rotating lens, a built in screen, and a built 538 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 2: in remote control. And they said, I don't know anything 539 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 2: about making cameras, but I know what the consumers want. 540 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 2: And so for them, they were able to, I guess, 541 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 2: take data off of their current activities that was relevant 542 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 2: for tomorrow's activities so to speak. When it comes to 543 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 2: us now and operating data. You know my business partner 544 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 2: Roy I'll bu Lack. He's fantastic. He's from Uni Lever, 545 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 2: he's ahead of technology over there in Canada, and he 546 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 2: really drives a lot of data conversations for us. And 547 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 2: he was developing dashboards for them a long time ago 548 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 2: where I used to live in London, England and he 549 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 2: used to live in London, England, and I remember meeting 550 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 2: one day and he was like, you have to come 551 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 2: see this dashboard. But to that point, you know, there's 552 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 2: the data that you create internally in your own company 553 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 2: that you should be setting yourself up to capture before 554 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 2: you're trying to invest in outside external capture data. Because 555 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 2: if you're already able to generate revenue, well, your own 556 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 2: data is going to help you become more efficient at 557 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 2: all facets of that. And so you know, when it 558 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 2: comes to should I make a product for a consumer, 559 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 2: I'll usually go out on a limb and test after, 560 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 2: if I'm absolutely honest with you. But the testing we 561 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 2: do before is now that we're in the industry. For example, 562 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 2: we can create something and we can make a digital 563 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 2: version of it and I can go bring it to 564 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 2: key opinion leaders and have their their opinion on it. 565 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 2: And I think, you know, it's tough to trust people 566 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 2: these days, absolutely, with the way the world is. But 567 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 2: I think a lot of what drives our creations after 568 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 2: we have an aditional idea is bringing in certain key 569 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 2: people at certain milestones that we trust. 570 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: What informed your sense of design in your background? Like 571 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: what if I go to Bill and I see you 572 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: Bill grew up in the countryside, you know, maybe he 573 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 1: went to parochio, I mean some Christian school like he had. 574 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: He was going to have some sort of design sense 575 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 1: that was informed by his upbringing. Tell me about yours. 576 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 2: It's probably by my parents' taste, because they got some 577 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 2: good taste, to be honest, and they were just when 578 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 2: I was growing up. You know, my father was He's 579 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 2: a genius. He got one of two scholarships to all 580 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 2: of Guyana to leave the country and that allowed him 581 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 2: to get a mining engineering degree at Queen's University in Canada. 582 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 2: He then started working for several companies and along the journey, 583 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 2: but at some point in time he convinced them to 584 00:32:58,240 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 2: send him back to school so he could get his 585 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 2: m And when he came back the company was going under. 586 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 2: He bought it for eight dollars plus, assuming all the 587 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 2: responsibility for their debt. Of course, and long story short, 588 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 2: he figured out a new way to mine a coal 589 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 2: deposit that they couldn't have access to before, and then 590 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 2: he took that to Asia. And this is to answer 591 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 2: your question. My father while I was growing up, was 592 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 2: frequently coming to and from Asia with you know, Japanese 593 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 2: little toys, karaoke, laser discs, all the latest stuff, where 594 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 2: it was just picking my curiosity of technology, but at 595 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 2: the same time just seeing how things are done efficiently. 596 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 2: And so I think that combined with watching him just 597 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 2: from a fly on the wall as he progressed his 598 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 2: career while I was a child, from an entrepreneur perspective, 599 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 2: it made me always want to create things that were 600 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 2: for the future that you know, were business savvy, because 601 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 2: if that makes sense, that and the fact that I 602 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 2: want to die a kid, If I'm honest, I've been 603 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 2: watching anime since I was a kid, and I just 604 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 2: want to I always want to be able to dream 605 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 2: in different worlds and see different things and expand like that. 606 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 2: And I think just riding that train as far as 607 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 2: it'll go. And it took me into import cars, which 608 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 2: took me into Formula one cars, which took me into 609 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 2: wherever we went. You know the story I tell somebody 610 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,279 Speaker 2: asking me about how I figured out Santa Claus wasn't real. 611 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 2: It was one of those toys that my dad brought 612 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 2: me back, was a voice recorder that had like a 613 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,960 Speaker 2: voice activated function, and so I taped it to the 614 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 2: Christmas tree and I heard my parents that night and 615 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 2: the next morning I yelled at them for lying then 616 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:48,560 Speaker 2: like that Santa Claus wasn't real. But it's just kind 617 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 2: of that kind of stuff, I guess. 618 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 1: Bread. 619 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 2: But then like my dad, you know, he loved banging 620 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:02,880 Speaker 2: Olison and he's an aud so yeah, growing up, he 621 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 2: like every time he had had the speaker, he was 622 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 2: just like, look at the curves and just you know, 623 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 2: it was always just so much more than the product. 624 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,359 Speaker 2: It was always about how you made you feel when 625 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 2: you were just with it. You know that that I 626 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,080 Speaker 2: think is a bit of a differentiator. Maybe then about 627 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:20,879 Speaker 2: how I see things? 628 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: How would you say a designer knows they're good? Because 629 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 1: I imagine there's an argument to be made for some 630 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 1: sort of external validation, right, and could it be pure conviction? Though, 631 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 1: how do you know if you're going. 632 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:46,759 Speaker 2: It's a good question. So when I when I transitioned 633 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 2: from engineering into design, I knew I had no design ability, 634 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 2: and I knew things like drawing and communication were difficult 635 00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 2: for me, which put me at a severe disadvantage versus 636 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,800 Speaker 2: other designers. Then I went to try and get a 637 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,320 Speaker 2: job in London, probably the one of the hardest places 638 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 2: to find a job, and I got humble pie caked 639 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 2: in my face every day for six months. You know, 640 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 2: I went to every single design studio and gave them 641 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,880 Speaker 2: my initial little portfolio that I had when I came 642 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,600 Speaker 2: out of school thinking I was top dollar and just 643 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 2: you know, after you burn all thirty forty of them, 644 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 2: it's like, but each time it happens, though, I realize 645 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,920 Speaker 2: I was trying to tell people I love designing technology, 646 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:35,360 Speaker 2: and I think the important lesson here is the designs 647 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 2: I was showing. A lot of them were things I 648 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 2: created that were created because I had to a school project, 649 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:43,800 Speaker 2: for example, I have to make that. But when it 650 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 2: comes to showing the things you made for the love 651 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,800 Speaker 2: of it, that's when you know you're a good designer, 652 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 2: in my opinion, because I will hire somebody who can 653 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:56,360 Speaker 2: come to me in a job interview and be like, 654 00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,839 Speaker 2: here's these four things I made because I loved them, 655 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 2: and I did all these things. And it's true. If 656 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:02,920 Speaker 2: you go through the process of creating something, you know 657 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,759 Speaker 2: the small little things about it, you know, and the 658 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 2: nuances and those sort of parts, but you need to 659 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 2: have the rigor to see it all the way through 660 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 2: because until you're finished something, it always looks like crap 661 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 2: from the moment you start like until it's at that part. 662 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,279 Speaker 2: But it's not about trying to make it not look 663 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 2: like crap. It's about continuing to ask the right questions 664 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,399 Speaker 2: that carve out from that ice block simplicity and leave 665 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,840 Speaker 2: you with that thing that was always there to begin with. 666 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 2: And trying to do that for the reasons of oh, 667 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,360 Speaker 2: school taught me this is how I render, so I 668 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:55,080 Speaker 2: render this way versus oh, I actually googled how to 669 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 2: do bump mapping because I saw somebody else and now 670 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:00,840 Speaker 2: my shit's way back. Like it's just that's really it. 671 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 2: Once you have that's the part. I can't teach anybody. 672 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,880 Speaker 2: You can't teach anybody to give a shit but excuse me. 673 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:12,640 Speaker 2: But once they do, they you know you're a good 674 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 2: designer because you care. Love that. I guess that's the point. 675 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:20,479 Speaker 1: It's a really really good answer to it. In talking 676 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 1: about cannabisity, I mean there is it's such a new industry, 677 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,000 Speaker 1: a legal industry. I should say it's not a new industry, 678 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:31,359 Speaker 1: but it's a new legal industry, and there's so much 679 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 1: still left to be formed with the industry. It's not 680 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 1: federally federally legal in the United States. But what role 681 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 1: do you see product designers might play in shaping the 682 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,080 Speaker 1: future of the cannabis industry. 683 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,319 Speaker 2: I think it could be everything. Because the interesting thing 684 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 2: about the word product design in twenty twenty three is 685 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:56,839 Speaker 2: that it no longer means would have meant six years ago. 686 00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 2: It doesn't mean would have meant three years ago. You know, 687 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 2: somebody out walking out of school calling themselves a product 688 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 2: designer could be a web three stack developer these days, 689 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,880 Speaker 2: and they're like, I make products and that's what the 690 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 2: world accepts. To that point, the pos terminals that the 691 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 2: Canada sector uses are all designed technically speaking, and up 692 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 2: here in Canada, you know, we in Ontario and the 693 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,400 Speaker 2: British Columbia and a couple other provinces. The way it 694 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:35,160 Speaker 2: works is, even though it's federally legal, provincially, either it's 695 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 2: you know, still run by the government or it's allowed 696 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,480 Speaker 2: to be privatized. And in those sectors where it's still 697 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:42,680 Speaker 2: run by the government, you know, there were some hiccups 698 00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,080 Speaker 2: this year where they had to shut down orders to 699 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,719 Speaker 2: the entire province because their systems basically went down or 700 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,920 Speaker 2: got hacked or X, Y and z. So to the 701 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,920 Speaker 2: point of how do we make it? How do products 702 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,279 Speaker 2: help push it forward? Well, one is just make sure 703 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 2: we don't make mistakes like that when making those infrastructure products. 704 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,320 Speaker 2: But when it comes to the visual, tangible things I 705 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,120 Speaker 2: hold in my hand products, they have to be things 706 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 2: that you know, don't instantly give a version to the masses. 707 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,239 Speaker 2: And you know, if somebody were just to walk in 708 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 2: the next day and just like slap a sex toy 709 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:21,440 Speaker 2: on the table. Everybody in the room would be like go. 710 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:24,560 Speaker 2: And if somebody was to come and walk in and 711 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:28,200 Speaker 2: like slap a bong on the table, depending on the environment, 712 00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 2: most people would still be like God, you know. But 713 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:35,360 Speaker 2: I think there's something to be said about if somebody 714 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 2: were to come in with a cannabis plant that's been 715 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:45,480 Speaker 2: created in a beautiful container in a Bondz eye method 716 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,200 Speaker 2: to showcase the artistic of it and put that on 717 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:52,000 Speaker 2: the table, everybody in the room would approach it with curiosity. 718 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,919 Speaker 2: And so what we choose to put in the room 719 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,399 Speaker 2: and what rooms we choose to put them in will 720 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:02,360 Speaker 2: really help speed up people's curiosity being accepted or just 721 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:06,200 Speaker 2: slow it down. But either way, it's coming. It's just 722 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:10,080 Speaker 2: how fast we can remove the ignorance. Is I suppose 723 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:11,920 Speaker 2: the designer's responsibility. 724 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,840 Speaker 1: Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity Afro 725 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,320 Speaker 1: Tech on the Black Effect podcast Network and I Hire Media, 726 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,560 Speaker 1: and it's produced by Morgan Debonne and me Well Lucas, 727 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,040 Speaker 1: with additional production support by Sarah Ragon and Rose McLucas. 728 00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,600 Speaker 1: Special thank you to Michael Davis. If Nessa Serrano. Learn 729 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:41,279 Speaker 1: more about my guess and other tech that Trump is 730 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:45,320 Speaker 1: an innovators, an afrotech dot com, enjoying black tech, green money. 731 00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:50,839 Speaker 1: Share this with somebody, Go get your money. Peace and love,